Home » Uncategorized » May 2, 2013 – George Zimmerman Open Thread

May 2, 2013 – George Zimmerman Open Thread

GZ Daily Discussion

Anyone wanting to discuss the case, without bashing the legal team, you have come to the right spot.  I’d appreciate you sharing information that could help move the case to the goal of acquittal.

Racist comments will not be tolerated.

Thanks for participating.

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159 thoughts on “May 2, 2013 – George Zimmerman Open Thread

  1. I am really curious about the Evidentiary Hearing that MOM alluded to. Will he challenge W8 testimony, or the NEN call? Anyone have any ideas, would love to discuss.

    • In the presser after the hearing, it was hard to hear the reporter’s question but I think he/she asked about W8 and if what Trayvon said would be hearsay. Mr. O’Mara’s answer was there is lots of issues surrounding that. I did wonder if all those issues were the subject of the hearing he is looking to book with the Judge. We’ll know soon. There are only so many Saturday’s between now and May 28th.

        • They have to put it in by May 10th but she’d said as long as they are filed by that deadline, she hear them at the May 28th hearing.

          Mr. O’Mara said he had one motion that will need it own day (the evidentiary issues) and she said she would book a Saturday for that but she won’t do it until she actually gets the motion.

        • He normally doesn’t. He lets Crump speak for the State and puts on a show asking the defense to do like him and stay away from the cameras.

    • BDLR gave us a hint in yesterday’s hearing that they deposed some school board members in Miami last week, so they are likely school personnel, teachers, resource officers and the like.

        • It’s been my experience school board members aren’t the judge of what’s criminal. The police are. It will be interesting to watch that play out.

          • You know that has me thinking, because of regardless of how the report was written, I don’t know any school that would not consider a screwdriver a weapon, unless it was being used in a class.

            • well, i think they considered it a tool. i mean, let’s be honest, the cops were trying to give trayvon a break. the reason i don’t think that it is relevant is because it does not show any tendency toward violence. Yes, it could show he was a thief, who doesn’t know that? But does it tend to show that he started the fight? I don’t think so. Same deal with dope.

              The problem with putting that type of evidence forward is that it tends to allow the jury to “punish” Trayvon for being a thug. So it is prejudicial. But acts of violence would be relevant and therefore admissible at trial–like hitting the bus driver, engaging in MMA and things of that nature. Those are the types of things the defense can use which tend to prove that Trayvon provoked the confrontation. And we all know he did, right?

              • stevie g – speaking of the bus driver, maybe that information will be unearthed at this point.

                No doubt this whole event is a tragedy, but i TM was responsible for his own decisions, which, sadly led to his death.

                The way all this evidence is presented will be tricky to present as not to offend the jury, OR, putting the victim on trial as Prosecutors SCREAM! But, it is important the jury understands who TM was the night he died, NOT the image created by the family which will not be a part of the trial, I don’t think as it too has been dispeled.

                • Tragically, the vast majority homicides of young black males are the result of personal choices. One of many contradictions between reality and the Crump narrative.

                    • Why did you think Cassandra was being racist there? I thought something similiar when I heard the congress lady from Florida say they are killing our kids. Who is they?

                      I don’t know why so many black young males die young but I know it’s not because white people are hunting them like dogs in the street as the lawmaker said.

                    • sorry, this went to the wrong reply:

                      b/c no one CHOOSES to die; plus, how can she speak for young black males? it is very racist in my opinion. she has a habit of doing that if you see her previous posts and how she loves all the racism spewed out at CTH.

                    • I have been deeply involved in Oakland/Berkeley community policing, my partner is an evaluator who collected and analysted crime data in Oakland. Where’s the apology?
                      I live in a predominately black neighborhood and was the chair of our group for 8 years, that means black residents relied on me to drive our collective strategy to remove the sources of gang and drug dealing in our beat. We succeeded.
                      My sons and I both experienced vi0lent crime at the hands of black thugs.

                      You are definitely exposing your apologist tendencies and fear of being viewed racist.
                      Sop projecting. sorry Nettles for bringing out the worst in stevie g mentality.

                    • I’ve read about suicide bombers a time or two who CHOSE to die. The Columbine, Newtown and Va. Tech shooters CHOSE to die. Drug addicts are willing to risk death from overdoses or bad drugs. Those that commit suicide CHOSE to die. Those that join violent gangs are at great risk of death, yet chose to join up anyway. Granted the will to live is strong in the larger majority, but not every one subscribes to that will.

                      The racial discussions are very necessary, as long as they are done in a respectful, intelligent and targeted way, which you have done cassandra, IMO. Calling anyone racist has been so totally and completely overplayed by so many that the term is now clouding those that really do have racist tendencies, or are outright racists. The KKK and the white supremicist groups come to mind. If you gloss over the facts, details, and stastics, and throw the covers over your head, in order to not be called a racist, you are enabling the problem to continue. There is no society on earth that has a pure, non-racial, color blind population. Unfortunately it isn’t even only a generational problem, where the parents pass racism against an entire group on, it can develop within the individual for a variety of reasons.

                    • My comment was a reply to cassandra. I don’t know why my comments are winding up wherever they decide to go. LOL

                    • pinecone – my comments too are posting NOT under the person I am commenting to, but at random. KINKS in a new blog will work out I’m sure.

                      Good to see you and you made an excellent comment, everything matters in this case, this is truly the first time I ever heard “white Hispanic,” I guess the MEDIA was really surprised GZ wasn’t White after they reported it endlessly. I read just yesterday “Black Hispanics” have suffered more under Obama, a term becoming more popular. BUT, if a child has a white parent & a black parent is bi-racial, but the school system considers them as “black.”

                      Your right too, the word “racism is overplayed” & imo, to attack another. I have been called “racist” more times than I care to count because I want GZ to have a fair trial. Go figure.

                    • The first time I got called a racist I was shocked. It was because of my support of George Zimmerman. I asked others, how does one defend themselves against it? I got good advice, don’t let it bother you, you know the truth and don’t let it stop you. Now, it’s happened so many times its lost it’s shock value with me it used to have.

                    • I have been called racist so many times it is a joke in this community. I learned long ago, it is badge of honor. People know 1. I have integrity 2. I build relationships and persist until we see results 3. I am not afraid to challenge the sacred cows if they are harming community needs.

                    • “Sacred Cows” what a lovely term, but it is true for some reason there is a thought, a feeling that if you belong in that group you can’t comment and are supposed to turn a blind eye to the problems. Regardless of whether they are affecting your community or not, this only perpetuates the problems. I do understand that some in the white community are apprehensive due to history to address issues in the AA community, but closing our eyes to the problems is not the answer.

                    • In a place like Berkeley where government funds ideological based institutions there are lots of sacred cows. One of the sacred cows is not criminalizing youth. I spent part of last week helping a father , happens to be black and ex-OG , he is determined to see his sons succeed. Stevie G would sh…. his pants if he listened to our conversation. The dialog was about how to get the high school to act correctly following an escalation of bullying and threats that now involved displaying a gun. The dialog between a white mom and a black dad, both deeply informed about how this community operates, would fit into the chapters following your intro- to- race relations and perspectives. You see we know who the real racists are, it is the institutions who practice racial paternalism creating environments in which gangster thrive. We know why there is a high rate of homicides among black males, because we have personal knowledge about these guys, how they operate, who they hang with , who they killed, who are their enemies.
                      If Stevie G would like to take a walk around the hood, I be happy to educate him about how us residents of all colors, white, black, Asian, and Latinos, deal with gangster culture. Our hood is black street gang territory, not hospitable to the Nortenos or Surenos, when their tags show up it means a shooting is eminent.
                      Bottom line, I have no patience with that type of logic I was pressed to respond to, life has been too real for a while. Just got off the phone with my 26 year old, a married grad student, their car was stolen last night, AGAIN. and yeah the steering wheel lock was on, living on a tight budget as students this is really a major inconvenience, and the azz…. who stole the car, liking just used it get home to Richmond from east Oakland, why use public transit when there is a car to steal. The constant violations are truly tiresome.

                    • Cassandra, I fully understand your frustrations, as I have 2 kids one college, and the other a Senior in HS. Through hard work from my wife and I both have turned out to be respectable young men, and both have also suffered at the hands of thugs. Last year, my son who is in HS, had his Ipad stolen, from his backpack. My son who is handicapped, he has limited use of his left had, used the Ipad for his classes had it removed from his backpack while he was in his wheelchair, the boy bragged about it in facebook and twitter, the resource officer told me that there was nothing they could do since, nobody saw him, and that was that, he did not even want to write a report about it. It turns out this kid was known to be a thief, but his parents had filed a discrimination lawsuit, stemming from another incident where he stole another girls I phone, and the school did not want to touch him with a ten foot pole.

                      Eventually, he got transfer to another school, but my sons I pad was gone forever, the special software which was worth more than the I pad gone. I still have not been able to replace them, but his family settled with the school, go him to another school, without any consequences.

                    • Bless you and your wife. I hope college is a breath of fresh air for your sons. Thank goodness both of mine made it to decent college and experienced freedom from the constant negativity of thug culture. The incidents you describe happen daily in our nations schools. What does that say about our future citizens, they develop into adults who are productive but cynical or dysfunctional and criminal.

                    • I don’t think you are racist. I think you are discriminating by generalizing. I feel if we do that it allows reverse racisim to continue. They will USE color as a scape goat both as a person, and the system as well. This is my opinion. I do not think the system has ANYONE’S interest but their own agenda in mind. If it benefits the gov. local and federal to juke stats and keep a completely closed court system by using kids for cash they will. So even IF TM did enter the court system as a juvenile we the public would have never known until this event that he even was in contact with an SRO. I think discussing race is a delicate issue and if you are called racist EVER then it’s time to change HOW you discuss it if you do want results. Some chose to use this case to discuss it. I personally do not, does not mean I do not think it is important. Trying to convince a racist that they are racist is like trying to tell a blind man what the color blue is. The ones who see it need no convincing so to me it is just inserting emotionalism into the legal matters at hand. I mean consider the source where the racial discussions began and give it no weight! Otherwise they are given the opportunity to keep hating. This is how I see it and please take no offence.

                    • I’ve only directly been called a racist once. And that was when I was correcting someone who said Obama was the American dream for overcoming a poor childhood to become a self made wealthy man and president.
                      I responded with factual information about his family, bank VP grandmother, oil executive step father, mother who eventually got her PhD and worked for Timothy Gietner’s father, exclusive private schools in Hawaii, etc.
                      And the person freaked out and called me a racist, lol. Not sure how saying he came from an accomplished family is racist. I think the way he undercuts his mother’s and grandmother’s successes is terrible. He reduces his mother to a poor white woman on food stamps who couldn’t afford health care at her death (untrue) and his grandmother to a typical white racist woman.
                      He has to diminish everyone around him to make himself seem better, and I find it sad.
                      Sorry for the off-topic tangent, this thread just reminded me of that.

                    • thanks pinecone, we agree, addressing race is important to a pluralistic society. Calling people racist is a cheap shot. In my years leading our neighborhood council in uber-liberal Berkeley I have learned much including the easiest way to gain respect from the black members is to speak honestly and directly without fear. It is usually white liberals who are offended by the facts. Oakland is blessed with a strong middle class of very sane black folks, the problem here is the percentage of felons unsupervised in community corrections and some seriously useless politicians.

                      I understand that this is the internet, conversations can be problematic about sensitive topics.

                    • that is truly out of line, I will happily accept an apology. I do not post at the CTH for months now, and I rarely did over the last year. If you need to operate in a fantasy land to make yourself comfortable with the harsh reality of inner city black street violence, fine, but attacking me for an observations based on factual knowledge is irrational. The vast majority of black male homicides are gang, drug territorial disputes, and disrespect among players. Behaviors drive the violence.

                    • GALD your here Cassandra, I enjoy the information you add to the conversation.

              • Steve G. I don’t anything will come in, unless the door is opened by the prosecution, having said that, previous acts of burglary, could be relevant because there is the contention that TM was acting strangely, which aroused GZ and made him call the police and report him,

          • This debate of how to interpret problematic behavior as a discipline manner versus criminal has been raging in American education system for the last 20 years. States have various standards in how school crime data is shared between police and schools. NCLB attempted to mitigate some of the irregularities regarding unsafe schools. It is central to the abysmally high minority male drop out rate nationally.

          • “It’s been my experience school board members aren’t the judge of what’s criminal. The police are. ”

            As interesting as the spectacle of watching a school board member trying to effect an arrest would be, I’m pretty sure it’s up to the courts to decide what is and isn’t criminal and the police, and everyone else, to abide by that.

              • I got the impression that the point being made was that the police decide what is and isn’t criminal, and I disagreed, although they can certainly affect who does or does not get criminally charged in the first place.

                And as long as I’m being “disagreeable”, saying that the school bypassed the judges with the assistance of the police seems to imply that the particular police department had a choice in the matter, and I’m not sure to what extent they did.

                • You’re right Unitron. I, who know little about the law, was saying the police should make the call if the activity is criminal, not the school board official. You correctly pointed out, it isn’t the police who decide that either. Only the court can decide criminal behavior but my point still stands, BDLR was saying the school board member said it wasn’t criminal. It’s not their call.

                  • ” BDLR was saying the school board member said it wasn’t criminal. It’s not their call.”

                    Or at least it shouldn’t be. Not without some sort of oversight.

                    • Is Taaffe’s Twitter account (I’m not on the membership list) the only source for this picture for which Jackson is supposedly responsible?

          • Nettles a better gauge of what constitutes a weapon comes from Homeland Security (in my country too). That list includes nail or embroidery scissors as well as “gasp” knitting needles. All of those things are considered to be weapons for whatever reason, probably because they are sharp objects.

            A screwdriver can be used as a weapon, and yes I think it is possible that a screwdriver can penetrate the skin.

            I do know for a fact that scissors can do a good job as a weapon, and likewise pruning shears can do a lot of harm, so if a screwdriver can penetrate the skin it can be used as a weapon. Even staple guns can be used in that capacity.

        • Based on past behavior issues TM could easily have an IEP which could specify prohibited activities and requirements based on a personal evaluation. At the time of the last suspension he could have been sanctioned for violating a behavior contract regardless of broad interpretations by board members.

          • cassandra – your right, in addition to an IEP, he too may have had a “behavior modification plan” which keeps track of all behavior reported, measures the school took to address the problems. LOL, some schools have had to use this information to remove a kid from their school permanently, documentation, documentation, documentation, the parents have to then find another school or seek an alternative school.

            • 17 Yr. Olds don’t catch a break through the school system in my town. WHY? Because they usually don’t work, no real repercussions. LE are called to the High Schools routinely to REMOVE abusive kids that are aggressive, that steal, cuss/swear at teachers or other students, broken the law, shoved teachers, etc.

              They THEN ENTER the Juvenile LEGAL System, which imo, is where TM should have been sent after MDSPD found the STOLEN Jewelry. Behavior Modification had failed with TM, his parent’s KNEW he used drugs/pot, he had POT in his system when he died. The Juvenile Legal System in my town randomly drug test those that find themselves there, MANDATORY measures are taken, or, they can just go to Jail. Thi is at an expense to parent’s, they get to PAY Court cost etc. Sometimes things change when their defiant kid BECOMES A BIGGER PAIN in their butt.

              It is ONLY at this point, WHEN the parents are required to CONSTANTLY monitor their kid and PAY for whatever he has done, does a real change happen for a kid. Kids are put on a “probation,” in other words, if they get in trouble again, they may be sent to a program to live and be schooled which is part of the legal system. Sybrina and Tracy seemed, imo, to have given up on TM. TM could have been in an “alternative school in MIAMI” for his 10 day suspension so he wouldn’t have fallen behind in his school work. THEY DIDN’T BOTHER! NOR, was TM even living with either parent.

          • Would have nothing to do with an IEP. that is an individual educational plan for learning disabilities. Has to do with proper educational settings for officially diagnosed specific learning disabilities.

            • District have discretion in drafting an student study team to create an IEP for behavioral issues as well.

              • If the stories about his multiple suspensions, he would need to adjust his classes in order to achieve the proper amount of credits to graduate and earn a diploma or an adjusted one.

                • boricuafudd – the problem is Bori, it appeared TM wasn’t on track to graduate UNLESS he adopted a new personality and improved behavior & he didn’t exhibit that desire. TM’s twitters show what TM was interested in and included his lack of respect for women and ALL school authority & searching for drugs & discussing lean.

                  TM had failed the 11th grade and failed State Mandated Testing according to Sybrina. TM would have been 18 yrs. old in the 11th grade the next year. TM, imo, might have been able to get a GED at some point, since he couldn’t pass the 11th grade testing, he had changed schools, sadly I think TM’s school history might have been the same for several years.

                  • I understand Art, I was commenting on the IEP and how it would be used, the interesting thing is that the parents or guardians have to sign off on the IEP, so they can not claim they were unaware.

                    • boricuafudd – your right about that Bori, the parents do have to sign the IEPs, I misunderstood you were commenting on the IEP. Kids like TM are a real pain for school administrators and principals, most I’ve known couldn’t wait to get rid of those students from their campus due to the distraction they caused to children that really wanted to learn.

                      TM seemed to have been spiraling down since his “Hollister t-shirt photo” & his “football photo.” The instability in some kids lives doesn’t effect some, it effects others, sadly, I think there will be a lot about TM unearthed the parents wanted hidden,

            • sarahlynnid = In younger students, behavior objectives can be added as Cassandra stated, such as “refrain from kicking, spitting, punching, biting, etc. If the student is incapable of doing so, the area on the IEP that states: CAN attend or NOT attend other school functions such as: art, music, physical education, assemblies, are checked. MANY students display inappropriate behavior and prevent their peers from learning or enjoying an art class or music, but don’t have learning disabilities but behavior problems.

              IEP’s cover MORE than children with learning disabilities, they cover children with behavior problems that are younger, and IEP’s ENCOMPASS children that are “Gifted and Talented,” the smartest kids in a school system.

              I was an itinerant and saw a 7 yr. old Gifted Student 5 days a week, the first hour of EVERY day at a Gifted School, it was the ONLY objective/goal on his IEP because he couldn’t transition to his art class without fighting, spitting, or hitting students at random. ONLY WHEN he failed to respond over 2 9 week periods was a BEHAVIOR Modification Plan worked up for him w/all the documentation that had been made. The behavior continued when he went to lunch, he couldn’t act appropriately on the play ground but DESPITE all measures to help the student improve his behavior, he wasn’t allowed to attend the “fun things” kids loved about school. The School DID NOT ALLOW him to return the next year, sadly, you can be the smartest kid at the school and attend a special school for gifted/magnet kids, but if your behavior is a problem and can’t be remedied, they don’t have to invite you back. This student was not invited back, he was placed in a “non gifted/magnet school” in his neighborhood.

              • yep, yep and yep, explained like a true educational professional.

                and thanks for vote of support that speaking my truths does not make me a racist.

                Nettles your amazing, I know we share a deep commitment to a positive outcome .

                free GZ

    • Of course BDLR doesn’t do pressers. That would be romancing a microphone, something only MOM and the “private prosecutor” Crump can do. The prosecution has the luxury of having Crump be able to say anything he darn well pleases no matter how false, misleading or inflammatory without any risk of being held responsible.

      My guess is that the recent deponents were from the MDSPD.

        • bernie lets crump speak for the state. I dont understand how the state is okay with that. Crump is NOT speaking for just the family as the families atty in this last one either, he was speaking as a representative for the state. Dont understand how that is allowed, or how that does not cross the line. I would have expected the state to tell crump to be very careful doing that. Proves the influence crumps false narrative had over them. Are there other cases where a family attorney speaks directly for the state like that? It has to cross some attorney bar ethics issues. So blatant, yet somehow so accepted by the state. Crump is a rep, crump isnt, he only reps the family, crump acts like detective, but he only represents the family, crump wont turn over info but he only represents the family, crump infliltrates and manipulates star witnesses, but he only represents the family. how in the hell is he getting away with this?

  2. Morning Friends – Nettles – you continue to amaze!

    Nettles & boricuafudd, you are both right! As a retired special ed teacher, Prinicpal & Administrators want kids like TM out of their school, they want them moved to an Alternative school and off their campus. I live in a city 1/4 the size of Miami and our High Schools have metal detectors as you enter the buildings for the very reason TM had a screwdriver. WHY? Because they are considered weapons as bori said.

    It’s surprising to me that Kropp didn’t have metal detectives, TM could have been busted immediately. HOW did Kropp confiscate knives or guns if they didn’t have metal detectors? I guess Miami thought it was cheaper to have MDSPD on campus than an alternative school.

    • Welcome Art!

      I’m still wondering if Tray was a student at the time of his death. It’s very odd no announcement or action taken to console the faculty and students upon hearing of his death.

      Then for unknown reasons on March 21st, they officially tell everyone he died. Something’s up there.

      • Nettles – imo, there is so much information to be garnered about TM & his school records, I’m thrilled MOM/West are getting to the bottom of it. USUALLY, guidance counselors & administration “intervene” in cases like TM, the students are a distraction & prevent other’s from learning, but many times, the behavior is an indication of other problems like abuse, family homelessness, unstable families or homelife, there is a multitude of problems students could possess such as ADHD untreated, ODD or Oppositional Defiant Disorder, which imo, sounded as if TM might have displayed.

        BUT! Parents have to get involved, stay at the school to offer support to the administration, have their kids tested, and try to intervene before the behavior worsens, imo, the warning signs were all here.

    • Sybrina/Tracy just wanted an arrest BUT they wanted SO MUCH MORE! Apparently, like George & Cindy Anthony, they think the public cares what they think. INTEAD of letting the Justice System TRY to work after the family helped the BGI/Crump railroad GZ’s arrest, they continue to interject themselves into the Court Case.

      BUTT out Crump, apparently, Crump will continue to PROMOTE HIMSELF until the trial ends.

    • it was obvious that was going to happen. that’s why gz should not have been forced to waive the pretrial immunity hearing in public. it was a violation of his 5th amendment right against self-incrimination. Lots of folks who don’t know the nuances of the law think he must be guilty since he didn’t use SYG (common belief, not mine).

      the court did a good job of poisoning the jury pool.

      • I thought so too. The optic of having the judge question him after reading in the news how Crump can’t be forced to answer questions was unfair. Even the Judge is party to influencing the jury pool. Questioning George right before the summons were mailed. Lovely.

    • just like when gz is vindicated at trial, it will be obvious that NO arrest should have been made in the first place; just like SPD said.

      MOM and gz were between a rock and a hard place, but i think they made the right decision. i think there would have been even more prejudice against him had gz filed a pretrial motion for immunity and the judge denied it. in addition, gz would have had to testify and all of his statements could be used against him.

      as robert z stated, no need to give the state 2 bites of the apple. BDLR has no case, and now it is going to be apparent. i hope that crump is deposed and it shows all the corruption in this case, but fat chance. this is Floriduh!

  3. Congratulations and good luck on your new site Nettles. I know if there is anything new, I will find it here first. Thanks for all you do in support of George. I wish you could attend the hearing, and keep us all posted on what is happening in the courtroom.

  4. b/c no one CHOOSES to die; plus, how can she speak for young black males? it is very racist in my opinion. she has a habit of doing that if you see her previous posts and how she loves all the racism spewed out at CTH.

      • deinitely, he chose to attack gz and definitely did not realize the consequences. but certainly that could not be extrapolated for the vast majority of young black males. that is the racist part.

        i would hope that we can just deal with people as people and not lump them all together in some group.

        speaking about how bad the vast majority of young black males are and how bad their bad decisions are really not productive. let’s not try to generalize about all or even the “vast majority.” it is really not true and it is offensive to young black males.

        • I was referring specifics to nationally homicides rates and the data collected during investigation to the incident as to the cause. You had the chance to simply ask for clarification, but chose to disrespect me instead. Perhaps you have not avail yourself or have a need to understand crime data, I have.

        • OK, there is so much wrong with this logic and your misplaced sentiments I will just ignore it because it really is offensive.

        • I like the whole “equal” approach. We are all equal, Mindblowing that equality is so important………only sometimes. It is bs and reverse racism in this case. Cant say wanna have “equality” but then say well he is black so his grades can be lower to get into college, cant say equal and then say well he is black so his criminal activity in school will not be officially reported, cant say equal and then use race to get a pass on something. That has got to stop

      • I feel that I have to say something here, just food for thought. This year my wife and I will celebrate our 22nd wedding anniversary, she’s black and I am what would be considered White Hispanic, which is an oversimplification because my roots are more complicated. I grew up in a mostly black community, dealt with people of multiple ethnithcities.

        When I got married my wife lost half her family, they could not accept that I was married to her, to this day some only communicate with her or the kids, as if I don’t exist. This would not bother me, except that it does to my wife, and it affects her.

        IMO and experience, there is a problem with how blacks perceive other people, including Hispanics and Asians. It is not so clear-cut, the differences are stark between different communities. For instance, blacks that live in mostly black communities are less inclusive, and those that are in or grew up in mixed neighborhood tend to be more inclusive.

        At issue is that in some areas, particularly in the South, black communities have been at each other for years, the distrust is a huge barrier. Part of my wife’s family that won’t talk to her lives in Florida, btw, and in this part also looks at laws, rules and the police in a manner very differently than what I or most would.

        I was thinking about this recently and upon reflection I realize that out of the 7 friends that I spent the most time with, 5 have in jail, all have been arrested, and 3 are in prison, only 2 have had a job that lasted longer than 2 years. How I made through my teen years unscathed, I can only thank my family.

        I gave the background, because I wanted to explain where I was coming from. There is a problem in the AA community, prevalent in those segregated communities, and there is a feeling of paranoia, persecution and overall bias against them. The way they look at laws, rules and law enforcement manifests this, especially when they have to deal with LE or others.

        My brother-in-law, who has had many encounters with LE, always excuses his behaviour on racism, when I have been a witness of some of the issues that caused him the problems to begin with. Listen to the statements of the Scheme Team, they are not saying this stuff just to make their case they believe it and too many also believe that this is true. This means that the way they look at the incident between GZ and TM is quite different from how we see it.

        Whereas, we see someone trying to keep their neighborhood safe, they see as a snitch, busybody interfering in their business

        Where we see someone exercising his 2nd amendment rights, they see a bully with a gun puff up by it. They know they have seen it, I know I have.

        Where we see GZ defending himself from an attack, they see a young man taking care of business, because GZ disrespected him.

        Where we see GZ shooting TM to stop the beating, they see it as a sore loser cheating in a fist fight because he was getting his a** handed to him.

        We all want the best in all of us, because of this we ignore or excuse the bad, this is a great quality, but sometimes because we look for the best, we ignore the worst and then that cancer untreated comsumes the rest.

  5. No surprise here! 4,300 people will be worried in Florida they may be part of the Zimmerman trial.

  6. Nettles – Remember when the State was angry and argued the MOTION to prevent the Defense from getting the Social Media and School Records?

    Reading around the BLOGS, some think BDLR will argue the EVIDENCE FOUND by the Defense Team on TM’S suspensions, etc. to prevent them from being used at trial. BUT! They are FORGETTING there is a precedent that the defendant has a RIGHT TO ACCESS INFO on the victim. MOM used it in his arguments and that’s WHY he WON that MOTION.

    imo, that RULING will be used to have ALL the Defense finds admitted as evidence.

    I’ll locate that statute today.

  7. A while ago O’Mara had posted an article on the gz website, I believe addressing TM’s school records. He said that unfortunately there would be some things about TM that would be revealed that didn’t paint him in the best of lights. I do believe that O’Mara was aware of TM’s troubles at school quite a while ago, and likely had those records long before now.

  8. I read at different blogs and enjoy reading the comment section on some of them. I am upset to read at how truly ugly TM supporters have resorted, when they can’t discuss the facts, they have resorted to calling GZ: zippy, fat a$$, liar, georgie porgie, racist, and just when I thought they couldn’t sink any lower, they have had a field day with GZ’s weight gain.

    As Dolly Pardan told Jimmy Carter’s brother when he commented on her large breast, “at least I can have them reduced, there’s nothing you can do to improve STUPID.” I laughed, I guess that’s how I feel about those hurling hurtful comments, but it makes me mad!

    I can’t imagine how embarrassed & scared GZ feels even having to walk into the Court Room, knowing the hearing was televised, supporters as well as haters are watching, no matter what he did he was going to be talked about, criticized, made fun of. It isn’t fair, I don’t know how he does it, still praying & hoping for GZ/family.

    • art- I refuse to read the commentary on sites where I know GZ will be trashed, and in a most childish way with name calling which doesn’t require a very high IQ.

      I always rely on a Mark Twain quote-

      Never argue with stupid people. They will bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience.

      That explains their intellectual capacity in a nutshell.

  9. Bori- I am also very interested in the upcoming Evidentiary hearing, if that is what O’Mara meant or requested. I was looking around today to see exactly what an Evidentiary Hearing is. It seems that the most of what I read, it is a hearing to determine if the state actually has enough evidence to go forward to trial. Is that correct? I believe O’Mara indicated that he would let the prosecutors present their case, and then possibly ask for an immunity hearing at that point. Then he also said that George wants a jury to decide his fate. I’m confused. Did O’Mara let the state produce all of their discovery, or as much as they were willing to produce, and then use that info. to hold an Evidentiary Hearing? The judge doesn’t have to allow the hearing at all, and from what I read, the judge would have to rule that the state doesn’t have enough evidence to prove Murder 2, which seems very unlikely. I get the feeling that things are getting more than a little heated in the kitchen, and that the state desperately needs a way out. IMHO I believe that the depo of DD was a gold mine for the defense. It is entirely possible that the defense and the state both know that DD will turn on the state, and on Crump, Tracy and Sybrina. There was a reason why she wouldn’t come forward on her own, and refused to talk to the SPD and other law enforcement. My hunch tells me the defense has more from the DD depo. than we know about. I think she came clean.

  10. From Rene’s article today, we know the team is doing depositions of some of George’s neighbors tomorrow. Her source for that was a neighbor of George’s.

    Also keep your eyes peeled on this site for the receipt of the response to the State’s response and Mr. Crump’s objection to being deposed. http://199.242.69.70/pls/ds/ds_docket?p_caseyear=2013&p_casenumber=1233&psCourt=5

    The defense has to respond on or before Monday to have it considered.

    The motion for the evidentiary review should be filed shortly as the Judge said she’d schedule a Saturday before May 28th to hear it.

  11. RESPONDING TO:
    boricuafudd
    MAY 2, 2013 AT 5:01 PM
    ______________________
    boricuafudd – your comment may have been the best comment I’ve read since the TM/GZ case began. You know, lived, & have seen first hand the problems and share great insight with us, I guess I never really gave much thought to how differently blacks may see something or perceive it than a white person or white Hispanic may see it.

    I guess Sybrina could truly see GZ as a racist and murdered TM for the color of his skin, despite all in information that GZ isn’t a racist, she will never be convinced. She doesn’t get a pass from me on all the lies she’s told, but I guess I will consider, since reading your comment, she may just see GZ differently and consider him to be racist. Crump DOESN’T get a pass from me for manipulating other’s and promoting a racial agenda, Sybrina & Tracy have been willing participants for many reasons.

    • Replying to art tart- You give Tracy and Sybrina more credit than I would. Remember when Sybrina said in an interview that she believed it was an accident, and that it was a situation that got out of control? She changed that story within hours, according to her handlers. Sybrina has always been out for the money. The trashcan tours, the media interviews, the website have all been about collecting money. If Sybrina had not agreed to push forward with the HOA lawsuit, and actually came out talking about troubled youth, and what can or should be done to help that problem, she would have gained much more support and sympathy with the masses. Sybrina and Tracy have taken the money for me know route instead. No?

      • pinecone – I agree with your comment on what Sybrina has done & there is absolutely no excuse, I stated she was “willing participated,” I meant that I think it is possible that Sybrina see GZ as racist, I truly don’t think she views GZ any other way. Everything you said is correct & I agree, the trash can tours, jetting off to London, the self serving promotion of their agenda, getting a “trademark” on TM. Creating an image of TM that never existed, troubled youths are a REAL problem in America, she could have chosen to be honest as you said but she was self serving and self absorbed. Sybrina could spend some of her HOA money creating intervention programs for troubled youths, but she won’t. She finds it too convenient to blame on gun control.

        I expect the drama to continue long after the verdict comes in. Hopefully, GZ walks and he and SZ can start the long journey of healing. As long as there is a buck to be made, Crump, Sybrina, and Tracy will be in our faces.

        • Do you have any idea of the kind of tasteless crap the fast buck artists would be churning out if there were no trademark or other intellectual property protections for Trayvon’s name and likeness to stop them?

          Think how much money the Martin’s could have made selling hoodies with silk-screened bullet holes and Trayvon’s name attached, but they didn’t, and they are legally able to prevent anyone else from doing so as well.

          Whatever else you might say about them, this was them getting excellent legal advice and taking it.

        • You aren’t understanding the trademark application.

          Sybrina filed that so she could make money off of two phrases, “I am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon Martin” . As a result, no one else can use those two phrases, that the PR firm worked so hard to get into the placards at the rallies.

          There is NOTHING stopping anyone from producing the products you spoke of. As long as they don’t use Sybrina’s trademarked phrases, they can’t be sued.

          Further, if Sybrina doesn’t use the phrases she trademarked to make money, someone else can apply that she isn’t using her trademark and apply to get it taken from her. Trademarks are to be used not to prevent someone else from using them.

          When the public reacted negatively to learning of the Trademark, the Scheme Team did what they always do. They spun the facts. Oh, we are just trying to stop creeps from profiting.

          Not so. Not true. Every time you see the “I am Trayvon” T-Shirt, know his mom is raking in the dough. She made those T-shirts for this birthday and one year celebration and sold them.

          They didn’t want their son to die. If they could have him back, they’d give the money back quickly. But they can’t. So they are making the best of a bad situation. And they will take what the community will give them. Even if they lie to the community. They use what they have and spin it to wring all the dollars out they can. I think they overplayed their hand. Filing for trademarks within a month of his death and settling a wrongful death claim before the court have vetted the evidence, tells me they are opportunists. They are using this “opportunity” and making the best they can of it.

        • Nettles, that was the angriest comment I have seen you make, but to the point. They have acted like opportunists, Crump has admitted that he was hired for the purpose of lawsuits in his 15 pg. Affidavits, this before TM was even buried. They gave notice to the Complex that they would be suing before any charges were filed, we can show empathy with the family but their actions are telling a different story.

      • I think sybrina was originally manipulated. I can easily believe they got crump involved because they were concerned about the spd being good ole boy racists. From spd recent past, that is a logical thought process for a grieving mother. However what followed in april may june july aug sept oct nov and in 2013 is all on sybrina for allowing it.

    • TY, Art I want to explain that I am not excusing anyone, but I do see from talking with some family and friends where the family is coming from. Imo the family is fully aware and know the truth, but will never admit it to anyone in public, though I remember some made comments of Twitter early on.

      Yesterday, NatJack twitted something to the effect that GZ not seeking an Immunity Hearing proves that GZ should have been arrested and charged from the beginning. Basically, they feel justified for their lies, because the racist system treated GZ differently or so they feel. That is exactly what I am talking about, the feelings of persercution and bias are strong in that group, rationally they know the truth, but emotionally they are convinced otherwise.

      It is the same with any money they make out of this, they are feeling justified because the system is against them.

    • ♥♥♥ Jordan ♥♥♥ I’m so glad you found your way here. I knew you were great at research. You are my favorite, but don’t tell the others 😉

      Let’s get George acquitted, shall we?

      • We can do together…..

        Hey, you are my favorite, too.

        I am trying to understand your reply feature. Every blog is different . Let me know if this reply goes to your comment;.

        • I experienced some trouble with posting the correct time today. It seems to have messed up the posts and replies. I think that was the problem but not sure.

          Now that it is posting the right time, I’ll watch how the comments flow on tomorrow’s thread. If it doesn’t work, I’ll try another theme.

            • LOL, our divorce is pending once Mr. O’Mara is finished with George’s Case. I want to hire Mr. O’Mara to handle it for me.

              Until then, I’ll be sharing any breaking news on his breaking news thread if he keeps it. I’ll also share any of his blogs that help in the goal to get George acquitted. And everyone knows, there is no other better site for resources than Diwataman’s site.

              Everyone should feel free to share and post anything here that would help another blog/page/tweet/whatever.

              I started this blog so I can have control over reading the mocking and unfounded allegations of George’s legal team. For those who want to focus on the opposing side and the evidence, this blog will be of interest for you.

  12. Here’s what the Miami-Dade County Schools weapons policy is according to the student handbook:

    “Model students avoid: …possessing, using, distributing or selling any object , controlled substance or weapon that could inflict serious harm or place a person in fear of serious harm.”

    So the question now is what does ‘any object…that could inflict serious harm mean’…?

    The term is likely intentionally vague and broad specifically because it would be impossible to list every single item that could conceivably qualify as such (anything from a barbecue skewer to a camping hatchet to a baseball bat), so I checked the state-wide policies.

    The Florida state statute also doesn’t mention screwdrivers specifically, but it does mention that other common utility tools such as box cutters and pocket knives are prohibited “except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities.”

    And I think Florida’s explanation is at the very heart of the issue… if a student has in his or her possession an item that could inflict serious harm, is commonly used in such a manner, and he or she has no other legitimate purpose for having said item, the school should absolutely err on the side of caution and consider it a weapon. Particularly if the student already has a history of disciplinary issues and criminal behaviors… and in TM’s case, he had already been suspended once before and had been witnessed vandalising school property the very day before they found the screwdriver on him.

  13. Nettles18 — I am overjoyed to find that you have your very own blogspot. Outside of Rumpole’s Random Topics and occasionally, Talk Left, it’s been difficult to find a website that discusses actual “issues” in Re: GZ on a regular basis. Congratulations and thank you a thousand times!

    Also glad to see and read the writings of all those I’ve admired at other sites: boricuafudd, jordan, art tart, minpin and the other astute thinkers here. I’ve enjoy reading them all — with one exception today — and feel that I’ve found a new home.

    cassandra — I totally respect your non-PC outlook on real life, and always read and re-read your comments, gleaned from your many years of direct, on-the-ground, battlefield experience. I had only a taste of it in my 5 years in Berkeley, and was always able to deal with the tear gas and occasional violence by retreating to my studio in the Hills.
    I so admire your dedication to an often thankless job, and doubt that I could even begin to deal with that reality. Engineering, I’ve found, suits my personality better. I hope that you are being compensated adequately, and wish you & your family a safe haven at the end of the day. It takes a very special kind of person to do what you’re doing!

    Don’t forget:
    http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/
    If you’re using PayPal, there’s a message box for a personal note to George.

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