Home » Uncategorized » May 3, 2013 – George Zimmerman Open Thread

May 3, 2013 – George Zimmerman Open Thread

GZ Daily Discussion

Anyone wanting to discuss the case, you have come to the right spot. I’d appreciate you sharing information that could help move the case to the goal of acquittal.

Constructive criticism of the legal team is allowed and will be valued.  If your feedback is of things that should, could, would help the team to get the acquittal, I am looking for, then feel free to share it.  If your feedback is to mock, ridicule, vent or post unfounded accusations, please do so somewhere else.  I won’t allow that to be posted here.

Racist comments will not be tolerated.  If you’d like to share something privately, you can email me at nettles@bell.net

Thanks for participating.  Let’s do this!

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70 thoughts on “May 3, 2013 – George Zimmerman Open Thread

  1. (* I didn’t see there was new May 3rd thread when I posted, hope it’s ok to repost this here)

    Here’s what the Miami-Dade County Schools weapons policy is according to the student handbook:

    “Model students avoid: …possessing, using, distributing or selling any object , controlled substance or weapon that could inflict serious harm or place a person in fear of serious harm.”

    So the question now is what does ‘any object…that could inflict serious harm mean’…?

    The term is likely intentionally vague and broad specifically because it would be impossible to list every single item that could conceivably qualify as such (anything from a barbecue skewer to a camping hatchet to a baseball bat), so I checked the state-wide policies.

    The Florida state statute also doesn’t mention screwdrivers specifically, but it does mention that other common utility tools such as box cutters and pocket knives are prohibited “except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities.”

    And I think Florida’s explanation is at the very heart of the issue… if a student has in his or her possession an item that could inflict serious harm, is commonly used in such a manner, and he or she has no other legitimate purpose for having said item, the school should absolutely err on the side of caution and consider it a weapon. Particularly if the student already has a history of disciplinary issues and criminal behaviors… and in TM’s case, he had already been suspended once before and had been witnessed vandalising school property the very day before they found the screwdriver on him.

    • I think that is tomorrow. He had 10 days from the State’s reply. They responded on April 24th so then 10 days will be tomorrow.

      I noticed on Crump’s reply, he emailed it in 12 minutes shy of midnight on Monday. That leads me to believe they can submit at any hour, any day.

      We know from Rene’s article yesterday, a neighbor of George’s revealed to her that a number of neighbors were being deposed today.

    • The deadline is tomorrow, but by Florida rules (I can cite them if needed) if the deadline ends on a Saturday or Sunday, it’s rolled over to the next business day. With the State’s deadline being the 28th (Sunday), Blackwell’s response on the 29th should qualify as “on time”. The rebuttal deadline is tomorrow, but they have until the close of business Monday.

      Hope this helps.

  2. There is still nothing at the 5th DCA site that indicates that they will allow Crump to respond, even though he sent his response along with a document asking if he could respond. LOL

    • EXCELLENT opinion imo, Hornsby provided, BUT, my head is about to EXPLODE trying to digest everything I took in. NOTE: Hornsby answered someone from the CTH in the comment section. I understand more clearly WHY the immunity hearing didn’t take place, no need for GZ to suffer any more exposure.

      It seems even IF GZ is found NOT GUILTY, he will still be sued in a Civil Suit. It SUCKS that the bar will be much lower in a Civil Suit, like 51 % I think, Cbolt could tell us exactly, but the burden to present the evidence would be from Crump. Usually, they just use the information from the trial if it is not settled out of Court so there wouldn’t be a lot of leg work from Crump to put on a case.

      • Thanks for that link. Mr. Hornsby wrote that well. I agree, foregoing the immunity hearing has more gains than losses but one loss is the civil immunity. If I’m George Zimmerman, I want to give myself the best chance at getting criminal immunity and concentrating on a jury trial is the way to go. No way this Judge would give it to him. We all saw her ruling about discovey violations.

        • I know what Hornsby wrote, but the jury is still out on whether GZ can claim civil immunity if he is sued. There are precedents were the immunity is asserted after an acquittal in the civil trial.

          At issue is that the law, does not specify which court has to decide the immunity, or bars the invocation in Civil Court.

          What he said about Criminal court was established by the Florida Supreme Court, not by the law itself, as it is written.

        • Does a jury have the authority to give civil immunity to him? One of my facebook friends said way back in May 2012 that George would get two chances at immunity. One at pretrial hearing and another with the jury. She said if a jury finds he is innocent due to self-defense he can’t be sued civilly.

          • Remember OJ and Blakely? That is not true. You can still be sued after being found not guilty but George has other options for immunity.

        • Not sure what you mean by “getting criminal immunity.” He doesn’t have that. He’s exposed to a criminal indictment and trial. He’s decided to not ask for immunity before the jury is empaneled, so he’s going to be subjected to a criminal trial. In short, he’s got the disease, he’s not immune! He may be acquitted and the acquttal upheld on appeal, but all that conclusively resolves is the criminal information.

          The reason O’Mara gave for avoing a decision by the judge is that the community would not accept a decision by a judge. I tend to agree that Nelson would reject a motion for immunity, but based on the evidence she has to work against Zimmerman, I find it hard to believe that such a decision would not be reversed on appeal.

          I think her “discovery violations” rulings were okay under Richardson. There is a different standard for awarding costs, where a decent rule of thumb is that if a party has to Move for Specific Discovery, and the motion is granted, then the opponent pays costs.

      • Civil trial has the same burden of proof that an immunity hearing does, preponderance of the evidence. Zimmerman would lose a civil suit if the jury found it more likely than not that he was not justified in use of deadly force against Martin.

        I disagree with some of Hornsby’s contentions, but all in all it was a good piece. I believe that it is a red herring that the DCA accepts findings of fact as the trial judge does. The evidence will be what it will be, and if Nelson were to make an inference that was contradicted by evidence, even Zimmerman’s word, then she would be reversed on appeal. IOW, she can no more get away with conjecture than can Crump and the rest of the “coulda been, coulda happened” crowd.

        I also disagree with the contention that doing both, immunity and trial, exposes Zimmerman to cross examination, twice. I’m in the minority on the following: Zimmerman is allowed to testify in the form of a sworn affidavit, for purposes of immunity. That would avoid being cross examined. But, even if he has to take the stand for immunity, that does not mean he has to take it again. There is evidence of self defense from other witnesses.

        Hornsby is absolutely right that it is easier to get an acquittal at trial than in an immunity hearing. Looking just from Zimmerman’s perspective, the burden of proof is lower at trail – and the burden shifts to the state to disprove Zimmerman beyond a reasonable doubt.

        He is also right that immunity “can’t be raised after trial,” but he is right only if the jury returns a guilty verdict. If the jury is hung, the court may find immunity (See Jarkas), and if Zimmerman is acquitted, he can ask a judge to find that it is more likely than not that his use of force was justified. It’s my opinion that he can ask either the criminal trial judge, or a civil court judge.

        A jury does not have the power to grant immunity. In the criminal case, the burden of proof used by a jury is different, and more favorable to defendant. As a theoretical point, he could be found not guilty even if it was more likely his use of self defense was NOT justified. Remember, at trial, self defense attaches unless the state disproves it beyond a reasonable doubt. Said another way, if the jury merely has a doubt that it was self defense, then it still must acquit. So, an acquittal at the criminal trial does NOT preclude bringing a civil suit.

        • cboldt, thank you for sharing legal knowledge with us. If GZ is found NOT Guilty in the Criminal Trial, he can still be sued in a Civil Suit as you said, just as we saw in the OJ Simpson case. (collecting an awarded Judgement has proven almost impossible for the Gold mans.) If left up to Judge N to grant GZ anything, I hold out no hope.

          My family filed a “wrongful death suit” against an impaired physician because my sister died as a result of his negligence during surgery, he too tested positive for cocaine, loratabs. I found it appalling at the questions that can be ask in a Civil Suit, almost anything can be ask during depositions, MUCH DIFFERENT than a Criminal Trial Deposition. George/Cindy Anthony found themselves in the most embarrassing Civil Depositions with John Morgan and he videoed and televised them, HLN covered them. also.

          I continue to wonder how the NBC Civil Suit will play out, IF GZ is found NOT GUILTY, won’t NBC claim “GZ wasn’t damaged?” But sense the jury should NOT have hopefully been exposed to ALL the news in the case, they likely might not have see it. It would seem that a jury member would have had to see the NBC editing & reporting. Confusing, What are your thoughts? It seems this is what Crump/Sybrina/Tracy have attached their hopes on getting, the NBC Judgement, if there is one.

    • Thanks for the link. I had actually forgotten about him. He always made sense. His explanation of SYG, SD, and immunity and its various components is also a good one.

    • the hornsby post is extremely well thought out. Here is his comment about M-DSPD:

      I have seen it, but why even consider it? The only thing admissible against Trayvon Martin would be a felony conviction, accusations and arrests are inadmissible against victims, defendants, or witnesses. So it is just a needless sideshow meant to inflame racial prejudices.

      That is exactly my feeling about the CTH and sadly, D’man–meant to inflamce racial prejudices. That material is TOTALLY irrelevant.

      While we can’t bash MOM (not that i would), i sure hope i can bash racist and non-productive blogs!

      • stevie g = good to see you, good comment at Hornsby’s. In addition, the TM supporters CONTINUE to RANT “GZ is a known liar, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, can’t wait till he is shown t be a LIAR in court.”

        Hornsby did an interview w/Trisha at “websleuths” in Jan. 2013 and he stated when ask by Trisha about the LIES TM supporters rant about: “To bring into the case someone is a known LIAR, that person would have had to (a) be convicted of a crime & lying involved. Since GZ imo, has maybe mispoken, or nervous, or couldn’t remember exactly, he isn’t a LIAR as many paint him.

        In the case of KC Anthony, she was charged w/lying and it was part of her trial, she LIED to Detectives, LE, & cost the city of Orlando hundreds of thousands of dollars as a consequence of her lies as she knew Caylee was DEAD, EVERYONE looked for a “LIVE” child UNTIL some of the evidence/DNA confirmed hair from a dead child.

  3. Hey Nettles… just noticed something interesting about this pic (pay close attention to the bookstrap). Whoever wrote the ‘Trevon’ letter didn’t go to school with TM, or they would have known how to spell his name.

    • thanks captainschlongsilver – W-6 sounds very credible to me, but that nut job Mary C! Does anyone think she is a credible witness?

      WHO CARES what Mary C feels, especially since she feels it “wasn’t self defense.”

      N U T J O B !

      • Mary Cutcher had already been dismissed as anyone credible by the SPD. They said that her statements to the media did not match her statements to SPD investigators. The Scheme team latched onto her because she was willing to go in front of the media and lie her azz off. Cutcher got her 15 seconds of fame in the media, the state will never call her as a witness in trial. She would be impeached by the defense as soon as she opened her mouth.. Nut job, yes. I believe in the 911 calls, and in initial interviews, she admitted she saw NOTHING.

  4. Nettles, I have to ask. Other than your commenting, advocacy, and now new website, do you work for Mark O’Mara? LOL I read that somewhere today, and it seems that you have given many hints that you are the Canada office for the O’Mara team. Do you work for O’Mara? LOL

    • yes,. she is part of the northern contingent!

      I saw it too on D’man’s site: the admins from the CTH are saying nettles works for MOM. No proof of course. Just like most of their work–useless and pointless. Smearing and insinuating and, oh yes, lots of “spidy” sense. And according to them, that is why nettles is agasint MOM bashing. They are just clueless!

      • *against.

        btw nettles, if you or anyone ever figures out how posts can be edited, i would love to have that function. i sometimes post on the wsj, and it allows 15 minutes to edit a post. nice touch!

      • stevie g- You just made me very sorry that I ever posted what I did. My comment was more in jest, hence the LOL’s, rather than an over-caffeinated slam against anyone. They sell decacaffeinated which might be a good choice for you.

        • pinecone – LOL, a guy that post at OS is a GZ supporter and always gives MOM high praises, its common there for the GZ hater’s to say: “Well you know MOM pays him to come here & comment.” I LMAO!

          Just as the TM supporters on the OS BLOG that haven’t bothered reading ANY discovery, have already CONVICTED GZ and will defend that ridiculous opinion, & must get their talking points from Leatherman I assume RANT GZ supporters are RACIST. It’s just
          C R A Z Y !

  5. stevie g. says:
    May 2, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    you guys can wallow in your misery; new site by Nettles!
    slamming MOM NOT allowed!
    see ya!
    Reply

    stella says:
    May 2, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    Of course not. She works for MOM. Didn’t you know that?
    Reply
    cassandra says:
    May 2, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Is there any proof of this assertion?
    Reply
    stella says:
    May 2, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Nope. Lots of clues, though.
    Reply

    • I work (or advocate) for George Zimmerman. That includes supporting George Zimmerman’s choice of lawyers. I’ve joined the effort (without an invitation) and will do everything in my power to help George and his team prevail against the injustice those in power in the State of Florida are showing him.

      For those who are curious, I am paid for being a Human Resources Manager in Brampton ON Canada. I have almost no legal knowledge other than some basic Ontario employment law.

      I’m focussed on the goal of an acquittal.

      • Nettles if I found out that you are MOM’s personal assistant, it would not matter to me one iota, this is not about MOM, CTH, You or Me is about acquittal an innocent man. The rest are just sideshows, that have attracted all kinds of people, if your goal is Truth or Justice then does it matter how it is done, as long as we don’t do the same that it is being done to GZ?

        Nettles you, others like you and I have a simple mission that is to advocate for GZ, if other goals are accomplished completing that mission, gravy, as long as GZ is free.

        Your are great advocate for GZ that is what matters, and though we have disagreed in the past our goal remains the same.

          • I actually feel sort of duty bound to send emails to O’Mara when I find something significant. With one exception, he has thanked me for what I have sent and occasionally makes comments as he did when I sent him info about the cell phone that ended up in CA. He told me before that was announced that “we are working on it.”

        • As often as I hear the accusation that I work for Mr. O’Mara, to my knowledge I’ve never talked, emailed or messaged him directly.

          I feel the same sense of duty, to let the legal team know of anything that might help. I use the email address that was given in that “outed” email I exposed. I note the replies are also short and to the point. They usually say very little. Quite smart because you never know in this case with the States games what is suppose to be private becomes public. I think most responses to my emails are handled by his spokesperson, Shawn but I have no way of knowing for sure.

          It could be one day, they are forced to reveal all their email correspondence. So they do have to be very cautious.

          George and his callers to the jail never thought those recorded calls would ever be made public and yet the entire world can now listen to 148 calls, courtesy of the State of Florida.

  6. Y’all please forgive my lack of input for a while. I’ve gotten so used to composing in 140 characters or less that I can’t seem to even think well thought out posts anymore. I’ll work on it though.
    Appreciate you all,
    ~ Yancy

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