Home » Uncategorized » May 4, 2013 – GZ Open Thread

May 4, 2013 – GZ Open Thread

GZ Daily Discussion

Anyone wanting to discuss the case, you have come to the right spot. I’d appreciate you sharing information that could help move the case to the goal of acquittal.

Constructive criticism of the legal team is allowed and will be valued. If your feedback is of things that should, could, would help the team to get the acquittal then feel free to share it. If your feedback is to mock, ridicule, vent or post unfounded accusations, please do so somewhere else. I won’t allow that to be posted here.

Racist comments will not be tolerated. If you’d like to share something privately, you can email me at nettles@bell.net

Thanks for participating. Let’s do this!


176 thoughts on “May 4, 2013 – GZ Open Thread

  1. Hope I can post this here. I have been out of the loop. So you FINALLY have a blog! Congrats. I look fwd. to reading.

  2. What would you say if I said i received confirmation as to what was posted on CTH that the defense does in fact have proof the dee dee/trevon phone call never happened and that trevon’s cellphone does in fact contain voilent videos of him assaulting someone

    • captainschlongsilver – I’d say PLEASE SHARE FRIEND, will we have to wait until trial? That would be GREAT NEWS.

      After reading TM’s twitter account, I figured there was plenty of information to be gathered of a “lifestyle” Sybrina/Tracy didn’t want exposed.

      I have wondered if the Order Judge N signed at the hearing, IF not the jewelry drama, could it be photos of a beaten school bus driver. If that is indeed true, the MDSPD would have the report and in the school system, EVERYTHING is documented in photos. Any injries, suspected abuse, etc.

      • In the Order the Judge signed, the case number from October 2011 was listed. So this is likely the jewelry and screwdriver event.

        The tweet about swinging on a bus driver was on February 21, 2012 (the day Tracy drove half-way to Sanford to hand Tray over to Brandy).

        When the story broke about the suspensions, I recall reading an article (it wasn’t Robles) that described the screwdriver as a burglary tool and it went on to say the screwdriver had been sharpened to a point at the end. I cannot find that article again and have been looking for it for weeks. Whoever wrote that had a source who had seen the screwdriver.

        In listening to the hearing on Tuesday, perhaps the defense will argue the screwdriver is a weapon and the State will argue it wasn’t.

        • I tend to doubt it was sharpened to a point. First it’s always been described as a flathead screwdriver. A distinction that couldn’t be made if it was sharpened to a point. Second the grouping of jewelry & screwdriver would suggests the screwdriver was used as a tool to break in. A flathead screwdriver can be used to pry something open, a screwdriver filed to a point not so much.

          Maybe the article referenced Al Sharpton in a confusing way.

        • Boy, if it had been sharpened to a point, it sure looks like it was a weapon. I had not read that anywhere!

        • Perhaps it wasn’t a sharpened screwdriver but an awl. An awl might not help break into houses, but perhaps it could be helpful breaking into jewelry box locks…?

      • Unless Martin was convicted of a felony , I do not see how his alleged criminal past is going to become relevant at the trial because I can’t see Nelson allowing it. Maybe we are on a wild goose chase except to let the public know about all of this. IDK but that sounds like the reason.

        It’s why I now remain on the sidelines during all of these M-DSPD discussions. I think that is a separate issue, and while I hope that situation will be exposed and corrected, what does it matter in this criminal trial?

        • I wonder if the presence of someone from the school system at the hearing could have something to do with the missing report sent to someone at the SPD that never made it into Serino’s police report, or anyone else’s. Baez sent a letter to the prosecution and the defense indicating that Serino has some documents that possibly could help the defense. Could the school record be a part of what Serino is holding? Maybe they are scrambling because no one knows for sure just what Serino has in his possession.

        • Jordan you bring up a good point, except for direct testimony, and I believe a few exhibits all we have seen is discovery. Potential evidence, everything so far from the NEN call, to DD’s call and deposition, may not be at the trial. So the case the jury will hear may be lacking all of these items that we are discussing, but they are discovery. Whether they will be heard by the jury is still yet to be determined.

          • 😀 Who knows what Nelson will allow..

            I would be thrilled to see Crump on the stand in the trial. Wouldn’t that be a show?

            • We will see what will ultimately be allowed by Judge N, but it probably won’t be anything to help the defense. As for Crump testifying, that would be show if only to see him sweat.

      • cassandra – the thing I don’t understand is WHY no metal detectors at the entrances to KROP school? It seems if MDSPD was assigned to KROP already, there were consistent problems in a lot of areas, FIGHTING is one of the problems in a lot of high schools. HOW do they keep GUNS out of the school?

        A screwdriver could be as harmful as a flat head screwdriver if used with enough force could be as deadly as a KNIFE imo, if used with enough force in a fight. But, imo, the screwdriver was used to “break in.”

    • Justfactsplease states that Trayvon Martin’s cell phone contains video of violent crimes and implies that these videos correspond to cases which are under investigation by the police.

      The investigating detectives may not be aware that the MDPD possesses information possibly relevant to their open cases, such as the alleged videos.

      However, if Justfactsplease is aware of the particular violent crimes which are still unsolved, perhaps it would be possible to identify the investigating detectives, who would then surely wish to inspect these videos, in order to close the presumably still open cases.

      I would assume that when the detectives closed the cases, if they were able to do so, they would inform the victims.

      In the circumstance that their assailant was now dead, they would be unable to proceed with prosecuting him, although the victims could still pursue civil cases againt their assailant’s estate, as well as any other parties, who may have shared responsibility.

      If Justfactsplease is correct, and Trayvon Martin committed three previous violent assaults, which were commemeorated on video, I believe that public awareness that Trayvon Martin had a history of violence would strongly influence a jury.

      I also believe that if Trayvon Martin was the assailant in these crimes, that the appearance of the victims, at the trial of george Zimmerman would cause tremendous embarrasment to the supporters of Trayvon Martin.

      • I am not sure that many on the TM side would be embarrassed by such a revelation.

        At the outset they have cemented in their minds that GZ was a vigilante/cop-wannabe of sorts. Starting with this presumption, they then have extrapolated out to project this persona onto the results of the tragic confrontation. Such videos would be explained away as typical teenage horseplay and bravado.

        • hooson1st – your right about many TM supporters NOT being embarrassed about such a revelation, they would just scream “TM was standing his ground,” or their favorite inept rant, “YOUR RACIST!”

          I pray ALL the Defense EXPOSES all the information at trial, then who they going to believe? Evidence or their lying eyes?

      • I consider her to be a friend so I do not want to speak for her but she has said several things about this case in the beginning and I think she was always correct . Like me, she has medical issues and I pray for her daily, but that limits her time posting. She may not even be aware of this new site, but remember, too, that has changed her position about MOM and has very little faith in him.

      • John McLachlan – I HOPE your are right about the videos, Julison worked hard to remove as much social media as possible, he did a pretty good job it appears, except, for whatever reason, he didn’t remove TM’s twitter.

        It has always been my opinion from the beginning, TM told DD that he was going to give “a cracka a beat down.” No evidence to support it, but if DD had shared this w/Crump, IMMEDIATELY the group began reconstructing what DD was to report to the State/LE.

        The rush to get HOA settlement is becoming clearer as to the reasons. MO money now, than a chance of less money later OR no money at all.

      • Where would any kind of confirmation come from other than right from the defense team? It sure would not be coming from anyone in the prosecution, or their enablers.

    • In court on 4/30 West said that according to DD, in her depo., there were calls/texts? missing from the phone records they showed her. The defense filed a motion to get any other phone data for TM that they had. BDLR said they didn’t have anything else. For BDLR’s purposes, he can’t turn over to the defense something that isn’t there. I don’t know what phone records West had in his possession, the phone records from the phone company itself, or the records from the forensic analyists. I thought that the defense had already said that all of the info. from phone analysis from 2/26 was missing from the records. I find it highly unlikely that the phone company would participate in any kind of phone data manipulation, and would erase calls/texts sent and received by the phone. DD has already proven to be a liar. If the calls/texts from her near the time of the incident are missing from the phone company records, she never made the calls. Remember in the BDLR interview, BDLR asks her if she was on the phone with TM when he was at the 711, she replied, yeah. Then she skips right over to him running to the mail thingy because it was dripping water. She glosses right past his trip home after leaving the store. She also says that hers or TM’s phones were “actin up.” She got cut off and had to call TM back, but each of those connections should have been recorded on the phone bill. Now we are hearing that TM’s phone pinged on a tower far out of the 711/RTL range, and to the north west. IF, and that’s a biggie, she was in fact on the phone with TM, she would know where he was and with who when he was out of the RTL area. If the phone data is chit, you must acquit.

      BTW, isn’t justthefactsplz some sort of GZ family member? Does anyone know what the relationship is? Is it GZ’s mother in law?

      • On Witness 8 remarking that some texts from her were missing from the showing defense made to her at deposition, the defense, if it is completely open minded, has to choose between phone data being withheld or otherwise missing, and Witness 8 engaging in a fabrication. What I’m thinking is that the demand for specific discovery of data on Martin’s phone may have been intended as a means to undermine Witness 8, not to undermine the state for withholding evidence.

        • But again, do we know what phone information the defense showed DD at the depo.? Was it the forensic info., or was it the phone company logs? If it was the info. from the phone company itself, and DD is claiming some texts were missing, it would not be surprising as she has already been caught in at least two lies, and the defense would be going after DD for that claim. To the best of my knowledge, no one knows what info. was shown to DD in the depo. In the BDLR interview, he asks DD what number she called Trayvon at, she says that she only remembers the last 4 numbers. BDLR asks her if she had his number memorized in the phone, and she replies yes. He then says that they (state) have her phone records. Did the defense ever get DD’s phone records? Are the calls close to the time of the incident on her phone records? Are the texts listed on her phone records that she claims are missing? Did TM have only one phone that they are examining the records for? Is it possible that TM’s phone, the one from Crumps copy and pasted billing records, in TM’s possession when the incident occurred? Some are claiming that the phone found at the scene was not TM’s.

          How does one go out and look for what may be missing evidence, or withheld evidence, if the evidence is missing or hidden in the first place? DD may have opened the door to missing or withheld evidence, or she may be lying out her butt about missing evidence. Wouldn’t West be failing in his duties if he didn’t at least question the possibility? Again, what records was the defense referring to in their depo.? None of us know that.

        • “On Witness 8 remarking that some texts from her were missing”

          On the phone records I saw, I noticed that there was no activity to or from the phone after that last 7:12 PM call… until a few days later when there were three LE calls.

          That said, Dee Dee had claimed that she tried to call him back and text him. Tracy also claimed that he had tried to call. None of these alleged calls or texts were on those records, though.

          So is MOM requesting the additional phone info because he believes there is more info that he hasn’t been given, or for the same reason he requested the nonexistent medical records and the nonexistent ‘enhanced’ 911 call… to expose yet another lie.

        • “On Witness 8 remarking that some texts from her were missing”

          It can be assumed that MOM/West directed a number of follow-up questions as to the nature of the missing texts, their place in a timeline, etc – that may have shed further light on these matters – information that we, as yet, do not know.

    • I would say that since the charging document relies heavily on DD’s statement, that the charges would need to be dropped. If the State decided to refile charges, wouldn’t GZ have a new chance at an immunity hearing?

      • Actually, the Charging Affidavits, does not rely heavily in DD’s statement, it is mainly used to establish that TM was not engaged in illegal activity at the time and that GZ appear to follow him, something that can be establish by NEN call alone.

        • How does the NEN call address Treyvon’s activities, i.e., support that he was doing nothing illegal? George called NEN to say he was acting suspiciously.

          • I was not very clear, I meant that the NEN called establishes that GZ was following TM, and a good lawyer will argue that since GZ does not mention any overt acts of wrongdoing it does not help in that area either.

              • No problem, I wonder if MOM will try to exclude the NEN call as the incident happened after GZ had finished the call. Alan Dershowitzs think that it would help the defense is the call is excluded, he feels that it has nothing to do with the act and should be.

                  • That is what the prosecution will claim, and is claiming that it is one long continuous act, or that it led to the further actions of GZ.

                    The Charging Affidavit is basically a recitation of the NEN call, with a little DD inserted, and Sybrina claiming that TM was screaming for help thus showing the depraved mind of GZ as he did not stop while TM pleaded for his life.

                    Throw out the NEN call and the has no case, DD possible testimony non-withstanding.

  3. Too bad WordPress doesn’t seem to have the option to automatically get emailed new comments on posts you haven’t made a comment on. Or if it does I missed it. Follow.

    • When you are commenting, note there are two options you can check. The options default to neither one being chosen. You can choose “Notify me of follow-up comments via email” or “Notify me of new posts via email.”

      • I think “Notify me of new posts via email” means when the blog owner makes a new blog post. “Notify me of follow-up comments via email” means you will be notified of new comments to that blog post. There’s no option, AFAIK, to get sent the (follow-up) comments to a new blog post unless you first comment on that post. That’s why you often see people just posting “follow” as a comment. It’s so they get the emails of the comments to that blog post, but really don’t have a significant comment they want to make at the time.

        • Doesn’t following a blog result in getting an email when the blog posts a new thread?

          I know I clicked on of those options (found when replying) on one blog that got over 500 comments on that thread and I got an email for every single post on that thread. I never chose that option again!

          I think it was notify me of new posts via email, I got an email for all posts in that thread.

          • I solve that by waiting until later in the day after I have read X number of comments, depending on how active it is. Only then do I subscribe to receive the remaining comments. Currently, I receive everything posted here but If a thread became very, very active I would do the same.

            I have enough experience to be able to reasonably calculate when to turn the comments on or off.

        • One more thing: Check the orange “thingy” at the top right of the page to see all replies to your specific comments.

        • In the corner of the blog I have my own sign in. If I make comments and someone replies directly to the comments then I see a notification that I can check and then make a response. It is beside my picture. You might want to check it out. Of course this is only relevant if you have a wordpress account and blog.

          • Right beside your user name at the top right part of the page, you should see an “orange” block with something white in inside of it. Click on it and you will see all replies to your personal comments. I no longer use that feature but if I remember, you lose all of the replies after you click on the orange block even if you did not read them all.

            IF you are only interested in what others say in reply to your comments. then this is the feature for you. If you interested in what everyone has to say, then subscribe to all comments. It is that simple.

        • “There’s no option, AFAIK, to get sent the (follow-up) comments to a new blog post unless you first comment on that post.”

          It’s why, unless I have something to say, I just post a smiley or a punctuation mark and check and then subscribe to comments.

      • Nettles, I’m not sure why (probably something to do with settings on my computer) but I was never able to get messges in email from CTH or DMan’s Blog. I finally just gave up tryng. I will try it and see if it works here and let you now. I have checked “Notify me of new posts via email.”

        • The option to get emails may only work if you login using wordpress. I tried logging in using twitter and the options to get sent emails weren’t enabled for me.

        • Check BOTH of them to receive all comments and new posts. If you have a problem, contact me. Do you use a Mac or PC? Do you have an email that you devote to this?

      • Yea, I think that’s the way it works. Most people wouldn’t want to get an email for every comment posted on every blog post. They’d only be interested in comments for a few of the blog posts. WordPress likely never implemented a “Send me everything” option.

        Think of the two options as “subscribe to the blog” and “subscribe to the blog post comment thread”. The “Notify me of follow-up comments” is somewhat misleading. Most people would think it meant comments that are responses to your comment. But it actually means any comments to the thread made after your comment.

        • I do not have a twitter account. I log in through WordPress. I am now trying “Notify me of follow-up comments via email.” Will wait to see if anyone replies.

          • Reply. 🙂 You might also want to check if your email address is correct on wordpress. Also if the emails are getting caught in spam. It’s also possible your email is on some sort of block list for wordpress. You could always try creating a gmail account and using that for your wordpress email. Btw, your screenname isn’t a link as it is for those that use twitter or wordpress. That’s odd.

        • I receive email notification every time a new thread is started at all of the blogs I follow AND every time a new comment is made by anyone on any of those threads. Below is just the first page of 23 pages of threads I follow. I can easily turn any of them off, which I do if the conversation gets boring or out of hand. Once in while, I clean this up and delete older threads which I need to do now . But some that I follow are not shown here and are on other pages since posts are infrequent.

          I manage all comments from a Yahoo email account where I can read an entire comment and initiate a reply to it from there.

          All wordpress are basically the same with minor exceptions. I posted complete instructions on how to subscribe and manage posts previously at DMan’s site.

          The Last Refuge
          Benghazi Hearing Preview Via Trey Gowdy May 1, 2013
          Post Hearing Thoughts May 1, 2013
          The Last Refuge
          O’Mara On George Zimmerman: “He’s just waiting, waiting, waiting,…..waiting for his jury trial”…. May 1, 2013
          Fifth District Court of Appeal UPDATE May 1, 2013
          The Last Refuge
          State V. George Zimmerman Hearing – April 30th 9:00am – Open Discussion Thread April 30, 2013
          A world at war
          Announcing April 30, 2013
          The Last Refuge
          O’Mara and The Immunity Hearing Decision… April 30, 2013
          The Last Refuge
          Truthseekers – Wanna Do Something Constructive? (GZ CASE) April 30, 2013
          The M-DSPD IA Investigation April 30, 2013
          George Zimmerman Case – April 30, 2013 Hearing April 29, 2013


          This has worked for me a long time. It is a lot easier than going back and forth to the thread to check for new comments and I NEVER miss a single post of any kind on any of the blogs I follow.

          One tip: At CTH, I wait until much later in the day before I subscribe to comments on some very active threads,, usually after a 100 or more comments have been made. I read these in one sitting, then subscribe to the rest of them.

          I will try to answer questions but no promises.

  4. I got nothing in email. I am almost certain it has to do with security settings or something in my own computer. I don’t worry about it- I just check my favorite sites (this one) every time I check my email.

      • coreshift, I appreciate your concern, but I am somewhat computer literate. I KNOW my name isn’t a link. I have been designing websites (using html codes) since 1998, as well as using WorPress since the inception of same. My posts were to Nettles for information only, in case others were having same problem- not complaining nor asking for help, but Thank you for trying to help.

  5. I’ve read that someone at talkleft claims that the defense has requested additional time to reply as they are unclear if they should be replying to Crump’s motion as well. The DCA never indicated whether they were accepting Crump’s response, or his request to include his response. It would seem the court will have to make that decision, or at least tell the defense whether they need to address it or not. Crump is making a different argument than the state.

    • pinecone – I read that as well @ talk left, someone too commented that perhaps MAYBE the DCA did accept Crump’s response, hence, the Defense needs more time to respond. But then, LOL, the bloggers started talking about the different times things were due, confusing.

      I’m always surprised to read when some criticize MOM and say, “well he has time.” I think, geeeeeeeeeeeez louise, when? Going to Miami for 2 days, doing depos, some depos leading to more that possibly needs to be investigated. I can’t imagine how long it takes for the Defense to prepare for the hearing, the outstanding MOTIONS, transcription of new depos, taking depos on Saturdays and still needing to respond to the DCA. A lot on the plate of MOM/West, PLUS, the research everything they do requires.

      • If the DCA did in fact accept Crump’s response, and will take it under consideration when they are making their decision, wouldn’t the DCA be obligated to tell the defense team that? If the DCA is not using Crump’s response in their decision, why would the defense even need to address Crump and not just the state’s response?

        Is this just another of Crump’s stunts where he just wants something to be on the record, and for the public to see, whether it has relevance or not? Getting his message out there in the public has been Crump’s MO from the get go. It’s like having a party and Crump just showing up to crash the party even though he was not an invited guest, or because he wasn’t invited. Crump would say that he was not invited because you are a racist.

      • Art- I also saw an accusation against MOM that he also has the “resources” (I took that to mean money) to investigate certain issues. My first thought was “delusional.” If some spent as much time slamming the Crump team, and the prosecution, who is at the heart of the railroading, and less time personally attacking MIOM, GZ, and GZ’s family members, we might be much farther ahead. There is a reason why BDLR keeps mentioning a particular site in hearings, and it ain’t because they will find accolades for the defense team when they read what is written. 24 days until the trial begins, and the personal attacks against the GZ defense have still not abated.

        With some GZ supporters who comment on their extreme disgust, and almost hatred of O’Mara, I wonder if they would be holding and/or posting those opinions if the seeds were not planted in their minds when the Pied Piper came to town. Those that don’t hold O’Mara in the same disdain are also all but accused of being “comfortably clueless” just as the Zimmerman family are. Cultists for thee but not for me.

        • Pinecone (minpin)
          RE: comment @ MAY 4, 2013 AT 4:13 PM

          I wholeheartedly agree with your comment, so many good points. I can’t imagine how little time MOM or West have to spend with their families, I continue to be humbled by everything they are doing, they continue to look under every rock, despite shortages of money & resources. I find it insulting to read when some suggest “MOM doesn’t have GZ’s best interest at heart.” Ridiculous imo.

          Everyday across America, innocent people might be railroaded, black or white, or any ethnicity, though we have the greatest legal system in the world, mistakes are made all the time by some that are over zealous or careless. Its not news anymore to see some released from Prison after serving 10 to 30 Yrs. because DNA has cleared them, it really makes me tear up to see family members GREET their loved one upon release, always believing in their innocence. It too is wonderful to see DNA test done on cases that have been cold for 20 yrs. & find a positive match giving LE the ability to make an arrest & the families some closure in the murder or rape of their loved one by seeing the perp charged & convicted.

          I feel badly about reading so many stories where the defendant REALLY NEEDS good representation, instead of being encouraged to “PLEAD” maybe to a lesser sentence because the Public Defender has too many cases to investigate, a lack of time, or limited resources.

          I felt so encouraged reading Mrs. Z’s letter, I too see the confidence the family has in MOM/West & to me, it speaks volumes. Many forget GZ’s parent have legal backgrounds, they understand what the defense is doing & why. TOO! Mrs. Z can’t wait for the facts to come out in court, I know the defense has them, I just wish we knew more! LOL!

          • The girl in Arizona is getting her defense paid for by the state… over $1.4 million so far . Do all defendants there get such a defense?

    • What I don’t understand is why Moddares and Blackwell jointly filed the HOA Settlement on Crump’s behalf with the criminal court. What does Modarres have to do with Crump and the TM case? Before the settlement filing, I had never heard of Moddares before.

      There are property records in Rockville MD which list Shayan Moddares and Azimi-Bolourian Sara Modarres listed as the owners of a property valued at over $400,000. Mr. Moddares is a member of BESLA. Black entertainment and sports law assoc. He is somehow affiliated with Florida A & M Univ. College of Law. I believe that is also where Jasmine Rand is a law professor. It appears that birds of a feather do all flock together. I wonder what the secret handshake is. Perhaps it is in being classless and unethical.

      • You may recall, at the AP awards night, Mr. Crump named Modarres as being one of the lawyers who made a conscious decision to pull back after George Zimmerman’s arrest and let the system take its course. So he’s been involved from the beginning. He and Ms. Jackson tweet each other a lot.

        When Mr. Crump filed his affidavit with the court on Feb. 5th, Natalie Jackson said she was waiting for Modarres to put it online so the warriors could see it. He also runs a blog for them. http://tmwarriors.wordpress.com/tag/shayan-modarres/

        • Watching Jackson and Modarres gives great insight into why the “Warriors” attack those posting in favor of George Zimmerman. Leading by example, these lawyers encourage the behavior we see.

          • I think it was Modarres that worked on the response for the DCA not Blackwell, different writing styles. Blackwell is listed because he was the attorney of record, so his name is attached to the case as representing Crump. If Crump is alllowed to be deposed I would not be surprised if it is Modarres who accompanies Crump to the deposition and not Blackwell.

    • Nettles – I LOVE Hornsby, he too doesn’t “suffer fools lightly!” If their wanting a bitch slap, he’s just the guy to deliver it.

  6. New Traynut fantasy….the MD-SPD reports are doctored or fake
    Name removed: Nice DP your constant name calling and hateful comments show your ignorance and yet you are constantly proven wrong you get things that have been altered or are fake and try and pass them off as the truth!!

    3 minutes ago · Like · 2

    Right Nell now they are investigating the whole thing and I am pretty sure it is going to show that those so called records at the school PD have been doctored or falsified3 minutes ago

    • I was hoping we would not get into “stuff” from other blogs being brrought over here- unless of course it is evidence. There are just too many opinions out there and we all know what “they” say about opinions…

    • I agree with Self Defense. I have respected the opinion of those supporting Trayvon Martin’s side and stayed off their sites. In return, so far, I haven’t had one of them bother me with this new blog. I’m quite pleasantly surprised by that.

      If you find evidence that would help us in getting an acquittal, by all means bring it here. Pointing out how flawed someone’s reasoning with what is staring them in the face doesn’t help that.

      I never did like reading the vileness. I don’t need to be told what “they” are saying about me outside of here. I don’t care and they have their right to their opinion. Nor do I care about ideas that you, yourself don’t think will pass a reasonable person on the jury.

      If you do come across something that might challenge GZ, by all means bring it.

  7. Nettles- There is no reply button to your comment above, so I am responding down here.

    “There was a school representative at the hearing? How do you know that?”

    I should have been more clear. There was someone from the M-DSPD at the hearing, as the judge gave them a copy of her order to release some particular info. Didn’t I read elsewhere that the order copy was handed to MOM, West and the M-DSPD, and mailed to BDLR and Guy. I think I have that correct, but, my point is that there was someone there from M-DSPD.

    • That doesn’t make any sense. A school police officer drove 4 hours to attend a hearing he/she didn’t testify at to be hand delivered the order to inspect and photograph evidence back in Miami? Hmmm, I wonder if they are speeding things up and this police officer brought the stuff from the case file for them to carry out the order. Good if they did. Another trip to Miami is now sucking up valuable time.

      • If there is enough heat surrounding the M-DSPD, for their actions in not putting Martin in the criminal justice system, when he clearly may have been a criminal, they would have likely come up with the bucks to fly someone the 250 miles to the courthouse. The state flew DD to Jacksonville for an unrecorded meeting with BDLR.

        I just read the order again. It states that either the defense or the state can go to Miami to retrieve the info listed in the order. Let the state spend the time and money on retrieving the info. I’m sure the defense has enough info to know if the state will supply all of the evidence, and correct info.

        HA, and the state is trying to say that the defense isn’t doing their own work, and is relying on the state to do their work for them.

        • Oh, and another question. Why was this issue addressed by the judge after the televised hearing ended. When they returned to the courtroom in the afternoon, it seems that this issue may have been the only reason for the private meeting.

        • This issue was addressed in open court. I commented on that on Diwataman’s blog when I posted the order there. At the 3hr11m47 mark of the hearing, you can hear Mr. O”Mara ask to approach, BDLR stand up says he has no objection and the Judge says it’s an order to inspect and photograph evidence and signs it. Then it sounds to me they are going to fax “them” the copy. In reviewing the order, those hand delivered or faxed are underlined and those mailed are circled. I don’t think the school police were there.

          The in camera session in the afternoon was suppose to be only about jury questionnaires.

      • There is a complete thread about this at CTH. I quit following it for previously stated reasons.

        • Jordan- I’m sure your blood pressure will be the beneficiary of not following the discussion over there. I am perplexed at how much seeming hate and disgust is being thrown towards the defense team, and by some I gave so much credit to for their rationality and fact based arguments.

          BTW, I believe you were posting at the CTH even before I had joined in there. Do you remember a post put up where SD claimed he had done some sort of experiment in how easy it is to control the masses into believing what some want them to believe. At the time, I took it to mean that the Crump team had successfully gotten the masses to believe what they wanted them to believe. Do you remember that article? I also remember SD posting somewhere that the mods did not want him to follow the TM case. One even said that they wanted their own little blog back to themselves. That was just after swarms of people started posting there on the GZ research articles which were fantastic at the time. It used to be the place to go for case info. If I wanted to waste my time, I’m sure I could do research in the archives for what I am saying. It ain’t worth my time.

          • You and I both know why BDLR keeps mentioning the CTH in court. He wants to drive the public to the page. He knows they are tearing Mr. O’Mara a new one and he wants them to read it.

            The CTH has become a gold-mine for the prosecutor. BDLR if these are the things you must do to win your case; brings charges against wife, prejudice the jury pool, you better think on it some more before you destroy any more trust in the justice system in Florida. If you take your case to the public for review, you will be outed for the unethical person you are to bring this charge in the first place.

            Interviewing your star witness, while sitting beside the crying Mom of the “victim”. You think that’s right? I think that’s disgraceful.

            • Do I detect some anger? It’s frustrating that there is so little we can do. It’s tragic that, in the end, NO ONE will likely be punished .

              • I’m not angry. Those posting are entitled to their opinion as well. BDLR is using it to send potential jury candidates to the site. Why do you think he keeps naming it.

                If he wants to keep people away from it, he’d call it “internet trolls” or bloggers, but no he’s saying the name to drive traffic to it.

          • I am sure your memory is correct but I honestly do not recall those articles. For the record, I try to read ALL blogs that support George. Opinions vary greatly but what disturbs me most is the law and the statutes. How can the interpretations be so damn different? Rhetorical question but aren’t you mystified when the court makes a decision and it contradicts what you yourself read in the actual law? It’s as if we are now playing by a new set of “rules” created by the other side.

            I have good friends at CTH and I value their input in the case. For example, I really like jello’s simple candor and common sense but there are many others there, too.

            • That must have been before I got there. As best I can determine, this is the first article the CTH posted about the case.


              This was March 23rd of last year and I was still looking for a good site that covered the case at that time. I was still reading Susan Simpson’s blog and she was convinced that George was guilty.

              So, it was almost a month after the shooting before CTH got on the case.

              • Sorry Jordan, I am really busy this week. I started reading CTH from the outset, even though I was uncomfortable with the political and religious material and the sometimes the tone of some commenters.
                The discussion about the purpose of the blog occurred in the comments around the latest purge of dissenter, the exclusion of Nettles, the mods suggested that they would prefer to keep the blog clear of those whose politics don’t match the intentions of their blog.

  8. Nettles – I don’t know if this has been shared, I don’t get twitter messages but read this at the OS tweeted yesterday:

    Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS

    George Zimmerman’s wife Shellie has waived her appearance at the next court date in her perjury case: 7/10. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin
    Retweeted by OSTrayvonMartin

    Nettles: this is the reference link on GZ, you probably have it but they too have the twitter messages on this page:

      • Fear of too many facts being released that may render the narrative moot. I’m sure the scheme team has ordered their warriors to dig in their heels.

    • Wasn’t that a sight to see on April 30th? The State of Florida needed the Judge to ask George Zimmerman if for sure he didn’t want to have the pretrial hearing that was suppose to start on April 22nd. Are you sure, Mr Zimmerman, you don’t want to have that pretrial hearing last week?!?!

      And the newspapers printed it like it was news. No, it was news on March 5th when Mr. O’Mara said Judge we won’t be motioning for a pretrial hearing so you can use the court time for other stuff.

      But the State needed to know for sure on April 30th, that Aprill 22nd hearing wasn’t needed.

      You can’t make this stuff up folks!

  9. Nettles- I am asking this question even though I will not be able to see it. Is it me, or my computer that renders any comments unviewable after a certain period in the thread. I can now only see a white screen, the icons, and the date and time that someone posted. The comments are not available on the screen. Anyone else have that problem? This has happened with most threads for me after so many comments.

  10. “The CTH has become a gold-mine for the prosecutor”

    Bingo. That is what I was saying. There is no other reason for the CTH to be mentioned by name in the hearings. There are many sites following the case, and that have posted about railroading job being done. For example, why wouldn’t BDLR mention TalkLeft? Why would he mention only the CTH. Why yes of course, he wants those he is reaching in the hearings to read the bashing of O’Mara on that site. There is no other reason. The SOB is helping to infect the jury pool as he complains about O’Mara loving the microphone. If I am not mistaken the prosecution can’t take their case to the media. Very clever Bernie to use Crump and the hearings as your source for propaganda.

    BTW, I can read the comments if I highlight them. Otherwise the screen is white and I can’t read any comments. Is it only me?

        • No, do not sell yourself short, you haven’t done anything bad. This is only my take.

          BDLR has his goals and his views.
          MOM has his goals and his views.

          In the middle, in this sideshow, is CTH. In particular, that part of CTH that has come up with discovery after discovery of holes in the prosecution case despite being frozen out of the information chain between prosecution and defense.

          And for icing on the cake, now you have the CTH/FOI revelations which are simply astounding not that the “vigilant” media could ever detect the story beneath their very noses.

          BDLR’s references to CTH come from his utter frustration of dealing with CTH revelations which he hopes to counter by discrediting CTH as being “extremist” and worse, and therefore hope to taint that validity, and the lines of inquiry that these revelations demand, by declaiming those whose uncovered these uncomfortable (to the prosecution) facts. Secondly, he hopes to discredit MOM by tying him to CTH, which is really unfathomable, when one considers the critical shellacking that CTH has administered to MOM.

          But many things are unfathomable in this case starting with the indictment of GZ for murder 2 based on legal trash.

          As for MOM, he is a lawyer that you would most likely find on the BGI side of things in the courtroom. He doesn’t subscribe to the mercenary/pecuniary parts of the BGI agenda but is clearly aligned with a social sensitivity to the disparity in the treatment of black youth in the criminal justice system.. What is left unsaid in this aspect of the debate is that similarly socio/economically-situated white youth face the same obstacles in the criminal justice system. [But this a whole different discussion item.]

          So MOM ignores BDLR’s shenanigans and sticks to the facts and the law and the courtroom.

          What we, the outside observers, are witnessing is the awesome power of the State judicial apparatus when it swings into gear against a particular indvidual with a compliant media in tow.

          The CTH criticisms on MOM serve to solidify MOM’s credibility with the BGI, as if there were a need for that.

          MOM has clearly stated his belief in GZ’s innocence because he is innocent. So in this battle, it is MOM and one side and BGI (and the media, and the prosecution) on the other.

          BGI has chosen the wrong hill to charge in this case.

          • It is always good to read intelligent opinions about this case. Thanks for expressing yourself in easy to understand language.

          • hooson1st – I respectfully disagree with your opinion, I grew bored with the predictable bashing quickly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, mine is that I don’t care to read a lot of speculation and criticism sprinkled with some facts. It does provide followers of the same opinion somewhere to add to the bashing. The TM supporters cite the CTH now for BASHING MOM, they love it, it too is their agenda to BASH the Defense and convict GZ.

            It isn’t MOM’s job to PLEASE Blog owners, fight the BGI, it’s MOM/West’s job to provide the best defense they can for GZ. Many have moved on from the predictable negativity. BDLR by mentioning the CTH, has given TM supporters MORE to rant on the internet about, they too BASH MOM/West daily, I fail to see anything POSITIVE about that.

            You state: The CTH criticisms on MOM serve to solidify MOM’s credibility with the BGI, as if there were a need for that.

            hooson1st – that statement would only be your opinion, I disagree.

    • George Zimmerman must be shaking his head. I would argue that the CTH has provided the most help to him over the past year and at the last hour before trial, the prosecutor is using the site against him. (or attempting to).

      I picture George Zimmerman saying, “When can I get a break?”

      • I have a brother in law that never failed to remind that he still remembered the kids in kindergarten that made fun of him, or made him mad, when he was in his 30’s-40’s. You would not believe the high level position he now holds in the US with GPS stuff. My point, some take what they consider dissing to heart, and it lasts for the rest of their lives. Someone on the O’Mara team dissed SD for some reason, despite that he claims he has had no contact with them. He hasn’t taken it lightly. That is the only explanation I can come up with for the behavoir. In my mind, he has also written what he has about the family members because they didn’t take his good advice to dump the guy he had a bug up his butt about. Revenge is a very ugly and nasty agenda. He claims that he interviewed former clients and friends of O’Mara, and that supposedly helped to solidify his position against O’Mara. Then release the names and the statements. Wouldn’t that be true “sunlight”? Don’t hide behind those that supposedly helped to form the disgust. There has been far too much posted that is not qualified or quantified. It’s just a plea to “trust me,” because I have all this info that I just can’t talk about. Why?

        • Can you please explain this?

          Someone on the O’Mara team dissed SD for some reason, despite that he claims he has had no contact with them

        • Here’s my take on what so many of us has been witnessing of late.

          In giving this feedback, I’ll be walking a fine line as many people have shared information with me and want me to know about it but they don’t want to be associated with it coming out and wants to keep what they shared confidential. It’s the same fine line I see Sundance walk.

          I haven’t read at the CTH for over a month so keep that in mind with what I share. I am aware of the thread calling me names just before the IA investigation stuff came out. Someone felt I should know and messaged me. Again, I’m ok with others talking about me and I don’t need to know what they think. If I do, I’ll check in myself. Please stop forwarding this type of information to me. I do know the sender was trying to help. I don’t need it.

          When Diwataman allowed me to post at his site and so many joined the conversation, I stopped reading at the CTH. But I did get a flavor from the comments on D-Man’s blog about what some continue to read at CTH.

          I have come to believe there are segments of GZ’s family/friends are unhappy with being left on the outside of what is going on with George and the defense team. They have taken this frustration and shared some of it with Sundance and others. Not all of them have but some have. As a result, you will now be reading comments about how “controlling” Mr. O’Mara is. The decision to leave some family members on the outside is being projected on Mr. O’Mara. Maybe it belongs there, maybe it doesn’t.

          Put yourself in the family members spot, how would you feel about being on the outside? I do however fully support and have posted several times, for family members to stop posting and let George and his team control the message.

          No matter how much you can be trusted, no matter how well-intended you are, if you hold the information, mistakes happen and things inadvertently slip to others, and for some, the information is just too juicy not to share. So you do and ask the person to keep it in confidence. Now you are at their mercy to keep that confidence. I’ve seen evidence that some confidences have not been kept. I was part of “outing” an email that could have caused embarrassment to the defense team. Thankfully for me, but more importantly for George, they handled it with grace and dignity and got me out of the pickle. But GZ is fighting for his life. Only the smallest of the small group are privy to what GZ and his team are learning.

          From Frances Robles article, I learned that GZ kept from his own parents what the donation account was getting in. As Robert Jr. is a spokesperson for the family and given the statement on the legal site, distancing themselves from RZJ’s statements, I suspect even his own brother isn’t getting the defense information. I’ll remind you that GZ took the Judge’s order so seriously to not talk to any witnesses in the case, he wasn’t talking to his own family who could be witnesses. You may recall, Mr. O’Mara motioned the court to clarify the bail condition so that George would ease up a bit and talk with his family and some friends.

          Put yourself in George’s shoes for just a minute. The State is playing hardball. To the letter of the law, had he talked to say his father, and his father is a witness they could say he broke bail conditions and put him back in jail. George is frantic, in my opinion, to not get himself in too much more trouble.

          This has left hurt feelings. If you are his brother, how would you feel if the defense team and your own brother tell you, I can’t share discovery with you until the information comes out.

          I appeal to the family/friends who are hurt by this to put it aside. GZ and his team must do this. Without meaning to, slip-ups happen. If you have indeed shared a confidential message with someone and asked them to keep it quiet, then you prove the defense’s point. Information can only be shared with those who must absolutely know.

          I feel for the family and friends. How hard would it be to stay silent this long? Most especially when there is so much misinformation out there. For those of you who have held your silence, good for you! I know it’s hard and George’s freedom depends on it. For those of you who are posting under fake names to put “some” information out there and have shared things you know you shouldn’t have, you prove the point GZ and his team are making.

          The other problem I see by some at the CTH is a political difference of view with Mr. O’Mara and I’ll not get into that at all. It is what it is.

          • Something I should add. I think GZ’s parents and siblings totally get it and are 100% supportive. The hurt feelings come from the extended family/friends.

            • I am guessing you think Robert, Jr should not be speaking up for George. Is that correct?

              At one time, I thought the defense needed a PR team to counter Julison’s story but that was then and they had no money for it either .

              What we really need is a truthful media that is not afraid to reveal the truth. Tragically, even now, they still refuse to do that. Any attempt is weak, at best, and even then they are still misleading and leave out important facts .

              • You’d be guessing wrong. Robert Jr. is my exception to the rule. He is an awesome spokesperson for the family. He’s helped so much more than he’s hurt.

                I was so impressed with him seeing him sit right behind the scheme team in Court. That was awesome!

                No, my comments are pointed to those family members who write on the blogs under fake names and share information they know they shouldn’t. They aren’t fooling anyone and have left lots of clues of who they really are. They don’t help, imo and put GZ at jeopardy.

                • Thanks for the clarification about Robert Jr . I like him, too. I do not know of any other family members who use the blogs so you know a lot more than me about that.

          • I agree with this and it’s obvious

            I suspect even his own brother isn’t getting the defense information.

            Mark Osterman (spelling) and his wife did not help George either even with good intentions or so they said.

        • pinecone – I don’t know if you are familiar with the “Hinky Meter,” owned by Valhall. It was a superior blog site, Valhall closed it because of losing a parent, taking care of another parent, hell, life gets in the way sometimes. BUT! Valhall was really a “rocket scientist.” She could decipher the most complicated DNA/science information in KC’s case provided by experts, explain the information in layman terms in the most complicated reports, etc., BUT, when she did an opinion piece, she CITED EVERY SOURCE she used so we could too read up on the science, she cited every news source she used. She too had pathologist that blogged, lawyers that chimed in, the things that lend credibility to a blog site. You couldn’t throw out wild speculation, you’d be challenged.. Valhall once said she “started her blog because she got tired of reading wrong information about the science.”

          Jeralyn Merritt @ Talk Left too holds herself to this standard and I am forever appreciative of all she contributes. I love that she cites the statutes/case law for us to read, Richard Hornsby too, when he writes on his blog, provides for his readers the same, case law/statutes that he used to form his opinion and for his readers to also read. Our friend Nettles is always quick with a link to share to support opinions & ideas.

          While BLOGS are great sourse of an exchange of information and ideas, a lot can be learned when supported by credible documentation as to the source, the media outlet, etc. some hold their standards higher than others. all, jmho.

  11. As I said, my screen turns white after so many comments. Because the printing is white against a black background, what can I be doing wrong to lose the comments after just so many? Anyone have any clue? I can only read the white background comments if I highlight the comments. I’m a computer dummy, what am I doing wrong?

    • Hello. I’m mostly a lurker, so please excuse my intrusion.
      Pinecone, I asked my resident geek and he said the following:
      1) Have you cleared the cache lately? And you can also try clearing cookies to see if that helps. Those are the simplest things to do and check first.
      2) Nettles could change the white font to a slightly off-color of some kind. You are seeing white font on a white background and when you highlight the font, you can read it. So if you, Pinecone, or if Nettles changes the font color, then you will be able to see the font even if the background goes white on you.
      3) If the above don’t work, then you may need to have someone take a look at your graphics processor unit or the drivers for it. It may be unable to handle the different palettes so at some point it just kind of freaks out and drops part of the background display. It may be as simple as updating the drivers for your unit, or the unit itself may be developing instability.
      Hope this helps.
      Take care, all. I enjoy reading your discussions. You are good people.

        • You are very welcome, and thank you.

          The black background is easy on the eyes, I agree. You might want to see if there is a similar theme that has fewer details to it, a bit less complicated than this one, perhaps. That might reduce the strain on Pinecone’s computer until the problem is identified.

          My friend and I were looking at the Chalkboard theme page and it looks like custom font colors are an upgrade item that would have to be purchased, so that may not be an option at this point.

          The other thing my friend suggested as a short term solution is for Pinecone to do a “select all” by either using “control A” or “command A” depending on the computer. That should highlight all the text on the screen at once so it’s easier to read.

          • You are a sweetheart Sue but, no one has to change anything on account of me. I have always been able to adjust. When I can’t accomplish something one way, I find another way to do so. I just did a disc clean up and the problem still exists. If no one else is having the problem, no adjustment is necessary. I can read the comments by highlighting them. With the green background, I can read the white letters. No biggie.

            • I have one more suggestion. Try another web browser. This site is quite different on Firefox than it is with Safari, and the same with Opera.

  12. Nettles, I can read all the posts but I am no longer getting reply space directly under posts. The only place I see a place to reply is at the very bottom of the page.

  13. Reply to Jordan’s 4:39 PM comment-

    “Unless Martin was convicted of a felony , I do not see how his alleged criminal past is going to become relevant at the trial because I can’t see Nelson allowing it”

    I agree that Nelson has her out with denying TM’s possible criminal past from being used at trial. It was Hornsby that argued that TM’s record will not be allowed because he was never convicted of a felony. For me, that is lawyerspeak. Why then has Nelson allowed the defense to gather information about a particular case number which likely involves the stolen jewelry and screwdriver? I have no doubt that Nelson allowed the discovery, even though she will likely not allow it at trial.

    For me personally, if SD wants to shout it out to the public about the corruption in the M-DSPD he needs to just do it. I know he only paid for FOIA requests involving the TM records, or those in the department that talked about the TM manipulation. If you are trying to expose rampant corruption, wouldn’t you look for many more records rather than just the TM records? Why stop at TM? get more records about the other students were involved in the so-called reduction of crime stats on AA’s? Bring many more records to light. Was TM the only one who benefited by the policy? Not even close. TM alone could not have altered the stats on the reduiction of AA crime. Mistakenly, IMO, SD only focuses his research on TM. If someone’s goal is to expose the massive corruption in the M-DSPD, you will likely get nowhere with exposing the records of only one student. If SD wants to go for it, then he needs to go for it.

    • Regarding the M-DSPD documents, while there are other beneficiaries of their misdeeds, it was TM death and investigation that caused the overreaction of the Chief starting the IA investigation, so the investigation dealt with TM’s records release to the media. So the focus was on TM, later the investigation turned on the actions of the Chief so it is possible that other students are not mentioned at all.

      • bori – but wasn’t it “sexual harassment claims” that had been filed that got the Chief fired or demoted? NOT the mishandling of the covered up information ALTHOUGH that needed to be exposed too. I quit following the information closely.

    • Sundance has limited resources. I am also frankly amazed at how he can crystallize so many important topical issues on a daily basis into serviceable posts and set-up the follow-up threads.

      Your larger point on the overall M-DSPD corruption stands on its own. This is where the local media normally would step in. But in today’s politically-charged climate, that ain’t happening.

      • this previous observation was addressed to pinecone’s comment re

        “If someone’s goal is to expose the massive corruption in the M-DSPD, you will likely get nowhere with exposing the records of only one student. If SD wants to go for it, then he needs to go for it.”

      • “Sundance has limited resources.”

        It was claimed by some that O’Mara has unlimited time, and seemingly unlimited resources to investigate the things that others claim to be priorities of what he should investigate, rather than what the defense has prioritized with their obvious limited resources. The pot of state taxpayer resources are available to the state to use at the rate and in a manner they see fit. That is not the case with the defense. I find it interesting that some complain that O’Mara has not released enough information, and that he is keeping everyone, including the donors in the dark. At the same time they are crying because O’Mara hasn’t investigated some particular angle, which they have no idea whether he has in fact investigated that angle or not. No one knows what the defense has or doesn’t have, yet there are many armchair lawyers/investigators speaking as though they know chit about what the defense has, or should have.

        As beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so are opinions about anyone crystallizing issues or topics. Everyone enters a discussion based on their own pre-conceived ideas and opinions. If I were to go out and interview some anonymous people who know someone, and some shared some of my pre-conceived notions, and I don’t go back to the person being investigated and give them the opportunity to give their side, I have only accomplished having my pre-conceived notions elevated without any opportunity or fairness to the person being investigated. George Zimmerman has the legal right to question his accusers, or the witnesses willing to testify against him. George Zimmerman has the right to question the motives behind those that are willing to testify that likely have any ulterior motive. George Zimmerman has the right to question the veracity of those witnesses especially when it has been proven by admission, that some have lied. Likewise, Mark O’Mara should have been afforded the opportunity to dispute, deny or verify the opinions of those that have offered opinions about him. To do otherwise is to keep total sunlight from shinning off his pinky ring.

        I understand that it was the story by Robles, who spoke about TM’s school discipline history, that started the investigation about the black male students who were removed from the criminal justice system via Hurley, likely instructed by Carvullo, or whatever his name is. I’ve said from the story breaking that it is a very worthy and admirable goal to expose the massive amount of corruption in the Miami Dade school system, and especially with portraying the picture that only the black race was eligible to have their criminal records manipulated. I said that it was not only TM that was a so-called beneficiary of that manipulation, but in fact became a statistic because of it. TM alone could not have changed the stats that were to prove how successful their program was. Pam Bondi and Gov. Scott applauded the measure, and hoped that it would be repeated across the state. Yes that is the same Pam Bondi who is good friends with Ben Crump, and who promised Justice for Trayvon, and who applauded keeping only black males out of the criminal justice system, despite she is the attorney general for all races in Fla., and who appointed her good friend and mentor as the special prosecutor to crucify George Zimmerman. While individual student records may be protected by law, the stats should be available to the public with how many interventions of black males were accomplished to effect such success, the meeting minutes, emails, those involved in the compliation should be available to those that are interested.

        Despite the fact that Nelson signed the order to collect her list of items on one of the Martin instances of possible criminality, she will never ever allow any of that information to be introduced at trial. It is no skin off her nose to sign an order that will dead end. While character assassination is allowed at trial, it comes with very narrow and defined rules. Nelson will simply say that whatever may be in those records is not relevant to the incident on 2/26. Because TM was never arrested in the criminal justice system, he has successfully escaped having a criminal record. As Hornsby said, without having a felony criminal record, the information becomes moot in the criminal trial.

        How many times have so many said, this is not only about TM and GZ, it is more so about the next one who is killed or who kills because they were so successfully “intervened.”

        • You clearly thought all of this through and spent some time writing it so thanks for sharing what you think.

        • Excellent comment, Minpin, it is why I keep reminding people that what we have seen is only potential evidence, discovery. The jurors would probably see only parts of what we have seen and some things we have yet to see. The case will be very different to what we know.

          Your are absolutely right about the limitation of the funds, some of the issues that we may explore at trial are moot as they are not admissible, why waste time and resources on them, for minimal or no gain.

  14. Nettles: For the record., I cannot reply to any comments I make. There are times when I want to clarify a comment or add to it but I cannot. I have confirmed this several times.

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