Home » Uncategorized » May 9, 2013 – Open Thread

May 9, 2013 – Open Thread

BondiAnyone wanting to discuss the George Zimmerman case, you have come to the right spot. I’d appreciate you sharing information that could help move the case to the goal of a full accounting of the truth.  Thank you to “Captain Long” for the photo.

Today is the deadline for the defense to answer the responses from Pam Bondi, Attorney General and Mr. Crump, attorney for Trayvon Martin’s family.  The defense team is appealing to the 5th DCA to get the opportunity to depose Mr. Crump on a number of issues, in order to ensure Mr. Zimmerman gets a fair trial.  Judge Nelson ruled on October 19, 2012 Mr. Crump could be deposed by the defense but reversed herself on Feb. 5, 2013, the very day he was scheduled for deposition.  A second request, when additional information became known, was once again denied by the Judge, without the courtesy of a hearing or a written reason why.

Ms. Bondi, who told a national TV audience on March 27, 2012 Piers Morgan show that Mr. Crump is a friend, promised the public that she would ensure that no stone would be unturned in learning what happened in this case.  Now she writes the appeal court to protect her friend in an effort to ensure the circumstances surrounding the discovery and initial statement given by W8 remains surrounded in darkness.

Racist comments will not be tolerated.

If you’d like to share something privately, you can email me at nettles@bell.net

Thanks for participating.  Together, let’s stop the railroading of this citizen’s rights.


239 thoughts on “May 9, 2013 – Open Thread

    • Good Morning-

      Unless the DCA is getting marching orders from on high, which I really hope and pray is not the case, I think a decision will come pretty quickly. The state, in their response more or less said, yeah we know, this is pretty bad, but give poor Bennie a break. The Crump response can be addressed by the defense in one short paragraph. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

      When I read the Crump response, my first impression was that he wasn’t satisfied with what the state had to say, and he was going to be the bull in the china shop which is his usual MO. Do you know who I am kinda thing.

      My guess on a decision would be before the end of next week, likely sooner. They know the trial is coming up quickly.

      BTW Jordan, don’t worry about Bori and I. Bori knows I adore him, and his passion and interest in the case. We just happen to see a particular issue differently, but we both want GZ set free. In the end that is all that really matters.

      Bori- I read the article you linked about Gilbreath. That was from back in Aug. 2003. Isn’t it amazing how you can be reprimanded for clearly breaking the rules which there is no doubt about, and then get a job with the state in order to do the same thing all over again. I remember in the first bond hearing he was sure to say he hadn’t talked with DD. In the BDLR interview with DD he claims that it was Osteen in the room with him. I wonder if there is anyone left in Fla. that hasn’t contracted corruptionitis.

      • “I wonder if there is anyone left in Fla. that hasn’t contracted corruptionitis.”

        And that goes back to what you guys were discussing yesterday… Bernie’s corruption can only exist in a corrupt system that will protect and provide cover for him. (waves hi to Nelson and all of BDLR’s coworkers, underlings, and associates)

        I can’t help but wonder what if anything this case had to do with the recent exodus / purge in the SA’s office…

        • “I wonder if there is anyone left in Fla. that hasn’t contracted corruptionitis.”(sic)

          The truth is that this is not the first example of an unethical prosecution. Most people are familiar with Casey’s trial but since so many people are convinced that she was guilty, very few have paid attention to the outlandish prosecutorial misconduct in that case. There were many times when Perry made big mistakes by allowing in junk science and more than once, there were grounds for mistrial. Since there was no direct physical evidence against Casey and no cause of death could be established, (among other causes for doubt) Perry could easily have dismissed the case before the jury ever began deliberations.

          That is what we want for George so what’s the difference?

          Recall please that even Ashton fully agreed that the case was overcharged from the start. I think he also later acknowledged other mistakes although not illegal ones.

          At any rate, don’t think for a minute the State “behaved” according to the law in that case. Presumed Guilty: Casey Anthony by Baez is a good source but you can also do a search and find other details. Yes, I know that many refuse to read it. Here’s my answer to that:

          “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”

      • Check out a movie called “Murder On A Sunday Morning”. It is a documentary film about Florida’s attempt to railroad black teen Brenton Butler who is mentioned in Bori’s article. Awesome movie and it shows Florida is no stranger to railroading innocents.

        • Mary Ann Stephens is shot in the head at point blank range in front of her husband. Two hours later, Brenton Butler, a 15 year old black male, is arrested walking down a nearby street. Mr. Stephens identifies him.

          Butler signs a confession. Everyone involved with the case, from investigators to journalists, is ready to condemn Butler, except his lawyer, Patrick McGuiness.

          A dazzling and magnetic presence of Hollywood proportions, McGuiness reopens the inquiry, and in a dramatic and absolutely spine-tingling sequence of events, he and his team discover a slew of shocking and troubling elements about the case. Did Brenton write his own confession? Where is the concrete evidence? And most importantly, can the police be lying?

    • It is unfathomable to me that Gilbreath can do something so glaringly wrong with a police department, have a reprimand in his record, and then wind up working for a state prosecutor’s office in the same capacity. What isn’t surprising is that it was Corey’s office that picked him up. Birds of a feather.

    • That article also underscores how interviewing W8 while sitting beside a distraught Ms. Fulton was either a monumentally stupid idea or something more sinister. At first glance, W8’s recantation sounds pretty solid – she lied to spare Ms. Fulton any uneccessary grief. That has enough emointional appeal to get her off the hook, right? What kind of professional investigator allows something as obviously irregular and such a foreseeably bad idea like that occur? Having her there during the interview is dumb. Having her there, crying and sitting next to W8 is stupid – or worse. I think O’Mara will be able to use that to good effect without being seen or perceived as bullying a young adult by pointing that finger straight at the state.

      • The whole thing was designed to get what they needed on the record, remember that they did not even have phone records confirming any of her story. They obtained them that same day, whether BDLR ever saw them of not, we don’t know but we do know he was In MIami at the time, and might have gotten them faxed in.

        Is like they started with a conclusion and were looking for anything to satisfy them arriving at their conclusion. Very little if anything was paid to GZ, and his story, heck 18 days later, they still had not examined GZ’s medical records.

  1. Various comments and questions all in one post.

    No news at the top of page today? Will you post MOM’s response to DCA when he releases it? When you post news, do you send notifications by email?

    And what’s the deal on the defense discovery? I thought I read that it would soon be released a while back but I have seen nothing. I hope we can find answers to some of our nagging, ongoing questions in their discovery. I have many unanswered questions.

    We also still need a court date for the evidentiary hearing, right ? Can Bernie try to block that? I guess Nelson could also refuse to hear the motion, too, if she gets lazy.

    One last question that I have asked many times. Was the conclusion that the State can only use one of George’s statements at the trial? Or is that still a matter for the court to decide?
    If I recall, the Hannity interview is fair in and of itself and is not one oi the statements to be considered in choosing one. it can be brought in separately.

    I hope everyone is having a happy day. It is sooo nice outside.

  2. The site has come along nicely, Nettles.. great job and thanks for giving us another place to vent. Amazing that we have had no trolls or crazies here

    I have one suggestion. Is there anything you can do on your end that would increase the font size in the reply box? For some reason, it is so small that I can barely see it so I often have to resort to typing my reply in another document and then copy and paste it.. time consuming .

    O f course, I can increase the font size of the entire thread each time I come here, but then the rest of page is somewhat distorted and greatly increased in size.

    This is the only site where I have experienced this so I am guessing there will be a simple way to change the font size entered into replies.

    • Hi Jordan,

      Thanks for your feedback. I agree. I’d love the font size to be bigger here. If anyone can tell me how to increase it, I will. I’ve been looking for the answer for a few days now.

      • Well.. Are you and your husband still on speaking terms? If so, ask him.

        For the record and so we are on the same page, I am ONLY talking about increasing the font size in the reply box. Everything else is perfect on my end. Are we in agreement?

        Actually, I would think you had an option to do that when you set up the site and that option should still be there. I think it should have made that section the same font size by default.

          • I believe you’re going to find out the same thing he did. In order to customize fonts and font sizes, you have to pay for WordPress premium. $99 a year.

            • I paid for an upgrade of $30 so we could enjoy colors and customize fonts. From what I’m reading I have to write a code to increase font size in comments. I only got the option to change the color of the background, links and headings. I can’t figure out how to change the font color from white. Perhaps that’s a code too.

      • I can’t resist- (I’m a born smart ass, doncha know?) I can see font fine- the answer is cateract surgery and implants. I have one eye for reading and one eye for driving. My only problem with the site is having to look at Pam Bondi every time I log on. I’m gonna try something- bear with me- Testing

  3. Here is a copy of the returned subpoena that was sent out to the Custodian of Records. Not sure why Rene thought this was a story.


    We know from Frank Taaffe, that subpoenas were received in the mail by some on April 24th. This one was returned and Rene wrote a story about it. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-05-07/news/os-george-zimmerman-trial-subpoena-20130507_1_trial-subpoena-trayvon-martin-jury-selection

    • I think that Frank Taaffe is a state witness.. Right? How would he help them or the defense if he is called to testify?

      • Using Bernardo logic, Taaffe would be asked if his place had been burgled the night of February 26th. The answer being “no,” Bernardo will say that proves Martin wasn’t acting suspiciously.

      • I think all she added was the names of four of five additional investigators. Not sure if there is anything hinky about that, like getting around the obligation to notify defense of witnesses and investigators within 15 days. The amended designation of assistant state attorneys and investigators does not ask for more time or suggest anything about more time being needed. I didn’t cross compare the lists of assistant state attorneys with her previous designation, but on reading through the amended list, no named jumped out as “new” to me.

        • It is interesting, because she seems to be responding to the Governor’s executive order 12-279, which was issued in December and extended the assignment of her office for this prosecution until March 22, 2014. I’m not sure why she’s responding now, unless the Supreme Court hasn’t yet ruled on whether she can continue pursuant to FS 27.14. It almost seems like she screwed up by not filing this months ago, because the Governor’s executive order in December says that Corey advised him that she needed more time. Now here’s her letter advising him that she needs more time, but it’s dated six months after his order granting the extension where he said she’d already advised him of that.

          Executive Order 12-279: http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Executive%20Order%20%2012-279.pdf

          Note below in the Florida Statutes that Corey cites in her filing, that her assignment to another circuit is only good for 12 months unless an extension is approved by the Supreme Court upon application of the Governor. The Governor’s EO does not say anything about approval being obtained by the Supreme Court for his granting the extension. Wouldn’t it be great if the Florida SC would deny the extension?

          Florida Statutes 27.14 Assigning state attorneys to other circuits.—
          (1) If any state attorney is disqualified to represent the state in any investigation, case, or matter pending in the courts of his or her circuit or if, for any other good and sufficient reason, the Governor determines that the ends of justice would be best served, the Governor may, by executive order filed with the Department of State, either order an exchange of circuits or of courts between such state attorney and any other state attorney or order an assignment of any state attorney to discharge the duties of the state attorney with respect to one or more specified investigations, cases, or matters, specified in general in the executive order of the Governor. Any exchange or assignment of any state attorney to a particular circuit shall expire 12 months after the date of issuance, unless an extension is approved by order of the Supreme Court upon application of the Governor showing good and sufficient cause to extend such exchange or assignment.
          (2) If the statewide prosecutor in charge of the Office of Statewide Prosecution determines that he or she is not qualified to represent the state in any investigation, case, or matter pending in the courts of the state or if a court of competent jurisdiction disqualifies him or her from representing the state, the Governor may, by executive order filed with the Department of State, order an assignment of any state attorney to discharge the duties of such prosecutor with respect to one or more specified investigations, cases, or matters, generally described in the order. The assignment of any state attorney shall expire 12 months after the date of issuance, unless an extension is approved by order of the Supreme Court upon application of the Governor showing good and sufficient cause to extend such assignment.
          (3) Whenever a state attorney is exchanged or assigned, he or she may designate one or more of his or her assistant state attorneys and state attorney investigators to perform the duties assigned under the executive order.
          History.—s. 2, ch. 5399, 1905; RGS 3009; CGL 4743; s. 1, ch. 69-1736; s. 4, ch. 73-334; s. 1, ch. 74-627; s. 1, ch. 75-193; s. 1, ch. 83-111; s. 2, ch. 85-179; s. 3, ch. 87-224; s. 123, ch. 95-147; s. 1, ch. 96-256.

          • Very nice, documented post and thanks. I actually have a list of things to follow up and the extension of time was one of them as was the decision about jurisdiction to prosecute Shellie, not named in Scott’s order and also beyond the time limits.

            I read this the same way as you. This is a Supreme Court decision, not governor’s decision but they can do it with a phone call UNLESS someone is allowed to argue against it. Maybe MOM will look into that.

          • Where is the order from the Supreme Court approving this? In the absence of one, the State could have problems, huh? Can they issue a retroactive order ? Wouldn’t this be grounds to stop the case altogether for now if the State is not operating with authority to do so?

            • That’s what I’m thinking. The Supreme Court has to issue a ruling at some point to approve the extension of time. If that hasn’t been done, then Corey and Scott are violating the law. It’s not some procedural rule they’re violating, either. It’s enshrined in the Florida Statutes.

                • Sometimes simple posts get me choked up. Chip is so humble but also so noble. Everyone here has assets. That includes you, ackbarsays. Funny that. In addition to your insight, I would want you on my side in a street fight. You really sound like you could be a bad ass dude.

                  • Well, thanks, Jordan. That’s a nice thing to say.

                    I have told people before – I have come full circle on this case. I’ve always been a conservative guy, but when the news reports about this case first started playing, I was so incensed about what I saw to be a miscarriage of justice. “Why won’t they arrest that guy?” – I thought. I started howling about it on Facebook and FreeRepublic, and I called people who argued with me racists and questioned their sanity. It was only after seeing some of the posts on Wagist and CTH that I started to see things in a different light. I think the first post I read on CTH was update 8, and then I immediately went back and read the other 7 updates.

                    Within days, I had gone to FreeRepublic and apologized personally to several people who I’d argued with about this case. And then the anger set in – I got angry about how the media had manipulated me in this case and the reaction that it engendered within me. I determined to learn all I could about the case and to fight for George Zimmerman’s acquittal. I’ll admit that I’ve struggled with how to do that. I’m sure many of us struggle with the concept of how to publicly voice support for George in a non-anonymous way. In the last few days, I finally just came right out and told my Facebook list that I am certain George is innocent and I directed them to a blog posting on the matter. So far, I haven’t gotten any pushback. I have many African-Americans and severe liberals on my list, so I’m sort of expecting to get some.

            • Sorry for not closing the hyperlink. Anyway, finished reading the Finch v. Fitzpatrick case, and in that case, the Florida Supreme Court found that the time limit / extension was not violated. The special prosecutor did not have more than 60 days assignment in any given calendar year, so no SCOFLA order was needed in order to comply with the statute. That circumstance is absent in the case at had. Corey has served more than one year, and has an extension without the governor having asked the Supreme Court for an order.

            • cboldt, I’ve read that case Finch v. Fitzpatrick this afternoon at this link: http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=1971457254So2d203_1413.xml&docbase=CSLWAR1-1950-1985

              It seems to me that there is an interesting legal question that was not resolved in that case – specifically, is the statute in question constitutional since it could be argued that it prohibits the Governor from exercising his constitutional duty to take care that the laws are faithfully executed? In that case, the trial court stated that putting a 60-day limit on the Governor was unconstitutional, but the Supreme Court expunged that portion of the record since the constitutionality of the statute was not properly before the trial court judge. The Court seems to give credence to the statute, even though they also seem to open the door for someone to challenge the constitutionality of the statute.

              In the Zimmerman case, by appealing directly to the DCA for a writ, O’Mara would provide an opening for the State to challenge the constituionality of the statute itself. They might rule it unconstitutional, but if they didn’t then I think Zimmerman would win on the merits, since it seems clear the Governor has violated the statute.

            • Extremely relevant and so damn important to let local governments operate w/o interference.

              The purpose of the time limitation [at the time this case was decided, the time limit was 60 days] in the statute is to prevent the Chief Executive from frustrating the will of the voters of a judicial circuit by replacing any elected state attorney with one chosen by the Governor from another circuit.

        • Oh boy. It gets better. Here is the Governor’s original Executive Order assigning Corey:

          Executive Order 12-72: http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Executive-Order-12-72.pdf

          Notice that it says the following: “The assigned State Attorney shall notify the Governor on or before February 22, 2013 if additional time is required.”

          Corey has obviously screwed up, big time, and she’s trying to cover her tracks three months later than she was required to do so by the Executive Order that granted her prosecutorial authority in this case.

          • Nettles … are you or anyone else keeping track of all of the documents pertaining to this one issue . Might be good to put them at the top of the page in this particular instance. I suspect that more is yet to come.

        • Seems to me that MOM and West should attack on this front. Petition the 5th DCA again to issue a writ of prohibition preventing Corey and her underlings from proceeding in this prosecution based on their failure to live up to the statutory guidelines regarding the assignment of State Attorneys to other localities. If such a motion were granted, then I would think the Governor would have to assign a different State Attorney to handle the case or return the case to the State Attorney for the 18th Circuit.

          • We need more lawyers here to add to the confusion. Seriously, this sounds bad as the state has had no authority since the original deadline passed. Throw it all out and start over or drop the charges. Actually. it is a good time for the state to close this up with some degree of “dignity.” LOL Get out now, Bernie. Save your career now and you will live to lie another day in yet another case.

            • The state didn’t lose the authority. What exists (if that cited statute doesn’t have some carve out, or if it is narrowly drawn to other types of investigation) is a situation where the special prosecutor is acting outside of the statutory requirement for Florida Supreme Court permission/order, being outside of the 12 month stautory duration limit without Supreme Court approval.

            • Translation: the state can prosecute Zimmerman even if Corey can’t. My parenthetical was speculation covering my ass in case the statute didn’t apply to the Zimmerman case for some reason (“carve out”). The special prosecutor is acting outside of statutory authority, and has been since March 22nd.

            • Jordan, if you go up to my most recent post on this subject, you’ll see that I cited a case (STATE EX REL. CHRISTIAN v. RUDD) in which this was exactly the remedy that the 1st DCA in Leon County applied when the state violated the then-existing provisions of 27.14. They granted a writ of certioari instructing the trial court judge to throw out the indictments and force the state to start over. http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=5&xmldoc=19741123302So2d821_1837.xml&docbase=CSLWAR1-1950-1985&SizeDisp=7

              • In that case, the indictment/information was filed when the appointment was defective due to SCOFLA-unapproved extension. In Zimmerman’s case, the information came out within about a month after the appointment, so the information/indictment lacks the jurisdictional infirmity that appears in Rudd.

                I wonder if the governor, of Bondi, or Corey, or Nelson would act on knowledge that Corey’s appointment is currently defective / elapsed. Good story for some enterprizing press operator. Headline “Corey Lacks Jurisdiction to Try Zimmerman!”

                • I see all kinds of replies, but honestly, I have a very difficult time keeping track of where all the posts are on WordPress pages. It would be so much better if the posts went all the way across the page.

        • Check out this 1974 case from the 1st DCA in Leon County: http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=5&xmldoc=19741123302So2d821_1837.xml&docbase=CSLWAR1-1950-1985&SizeDisp=7

          In the prior version of FS 27.14, it said only that the Governor could appoint a State Attorney to preside in another district for a period of up to 60 days in a calendar year. It did not say anything about Assistant State Attorneys. So, this defendant asked the trial court to throw out the indictments on the grounds that the Assistant State Attorneys who were present in the Grand Jury room when the indictments were handed down had no statutory authority to be there. (He also moved on the grounds that as an elected public official, he could not be indicted but had to be impeached – the 1st DCA did not buy that argument)

          The trial court rejected his motion, so he appealed to the 1st DCA for a writ of prohibition to prevent the state from prosecuting him, or in lieu of that, a writ of certioari directing the trial court judge to grant his motion. The 1st DCA did not grant the requested writ of prohibition, but after doing some judicial activist jujitsu and actually odering parts of the law to be amended by judicial fiat, they then granted the petitioner’s request for a writ of certioari to the trial court judge. In other words, they told the trial court judge to throw out the indictments and force the State to start over.

          This conclusion of their ruling in this case is pretty strong stuff. I think that if MOM/West were to open up this line of attack based on the State’s apparent disregard for the statutory language regarding the 12-month duration of Corey’s appointment, they’d certainly be able to cite this case:

          We acknowledge here as we did in (REALLY LONG CASE NAME), that we are fully cognizant that this decision will in no wise ultimately affect the prosecution of Petitioner on the charges lodged against him, nor is it so intended. The only thing accomplished by this decision is the assurance of fair and equal application of the law to all persons, of high office or low, and the avoidance of the harassment and expenditure necessarily attendant upon a long and tedious trial for the State (taxpayers) as well as the defendant which would, by virtue of the matters herein mentioned, achieve nothing. For, as recited in the said last mentioned case, there is nothing to prevent the State Attorney of the Second Judicial Circuit or an Assigned State Attorney, should he be properly assigned in accordance with statutory authority, from filing an information against Petitioner, if he is convinced of the existence of probable cause for so doing, charging the identical crimes as those set forth in the indictment of the Grand Jury. Having determined that reliance by the trial judge upon Dotty v. State, supra, was misplaced and that the motion addressed to the charges for which Petitioner was sought to be tried…should have been granted, we reverse and remand for further proceedings consistent herewith.

          • Excellent find.. thanks. Maybe MOM can use this in the middle of the trial if, and only IF the judge gets too far out of bounds, to stop the process and start over. That would be awesome.

            Just a nice extra tool to have handy.

            • I would think this type of issue would need to be brought up pre-trial. This would be a case of the defense saying “we don’t think the prosecutor is duly authorized to bring this action.” That’s not really something you bring up once the trial has already started.

              • Sometimes I mindlessly ramble with illogical suppositions.. not thought through before posting.. sort of like wishful thinking out loud or having a frustrating conversation with myself.

                Did that make sense or am I being incoherent again? Where are my meds?

      • I interpret that to mean they need an extension of time to prosecute Shellie. Scott’s order had a time limit so I expect so see another letter from Scott. There also remains the question of jurisdiction for Corey to prosecute Shellie. We never heard the answer to that motion.

        • There seems to be a letter missing here. Here is Angela Corey’s letter asking the Clerk in Seminole County to file an attached letter on 1/2/2013, but the attached letter isn’t there. I’m assuming this is the 1/4/2013 letter from Angela Corey that precedes the Governor filing Executive Order 12-279. That Executive Order is dated 12-18-2012. I’d like to see the missing page(s) here to see what the date was.


          Nettles, do you know where we’d find this missing letter?

          • Issues like this are some of the reasons we have blogs. Expose the truth and dig for facts .. Hoorah for us.

            • I think the order is invalid, but I don’t know the ramifications of that. Haven’t found a FL Supreme Court case on point or close to point, other than Finch, but the SCOFLA found no “extension under the statute” in that case. Have found one EO that extends time, that adhered to the statutory requirement to request an order from SCOFLA. The trick will be to find an EO that violated the statute, and see what remedy was obtained. It might be that this, like Crump being able to duck fact deposition, has no controlling legal authority.

        • There are two EO’s from Scott. 2012-72, which issued March 22, 2012, so expired March 22, 2013, and 2012-279, which, while claiming to adhere to and failthfully follow the law, doesn’t. The later EO expires March 22, 2014.

          Corey filed each EO in the district court, along with her designation of assistants and investigators. The second EO, the time extension beyond 12 months, was produced at Corey’s request.

          As for the Motion in Shellie’s case, my recollection is that the trial court rejected it. Ahh, MJW remarked at TalkLeft, on April 18 that an appeal had not been taken, but that the right to appeal may survive because Shellie’s lawyer has a pending motion for reconsideration before the trial court.

          • I am hoping this will become controversial enough to at least delay the trial. This could be a big battle in the legal system.

            Notice this comment at talkleft.

            Perhaps if the governor issued an EO to cover Shellie’s case, it could be challenged as exceeding his constitutional authority.

            • One thing that was drilled into my brain in law school was “law is a lawyer driven process.” If no lawyer makes an issue of it, it isn’t an issue. This ball is in O’Mara’s court. I don;t think he loses for “sitting on the issue” beynd any particular deadline, because the term limit is statutory.

              I don’t see the Florida Supreme Court pulling the rug out from under Scott and Corey in this case, so there is a strategic question about whether or not it is worth it (now) to raise the issue. Raise it after a conviction, if one happens.

          • Hummm . I thought I replied to this. Yes, I read it but he does not mention the time extension. Doesn’t the SC have to approve that. too?

            • Yes. The Supreme Court of Florida has to approve extensions of time beyond 12 months, and it is incumbent on the governor to petition the Supreme Court for an Order. Governor Scott did not petition the Florida Supreme Court for an Order authorizing an extension of time beyond 12 months.

              • As I have said, Obama has established a new precedent with executive orders. NO ONE needs approval from anyone to do anything at these levels of government

                It’s now law. LOL.

  4. jordan2222 @ MAY 9, 2013 AT 12:47 PM
    In reference to KC Anthony

    Ashton/Burdick didn’t want KC charged w/the death penalty but they didn’t get to make that decision, the decision was made by their boss, Lawton Lamar. After KC’s case, Lawton Lamar was up for re-election & Ashton challenged his former boss & WON. Ashton, NOW HOLDS the office of Ninth Circuit State Attorney, and has since started re-vamping that office.

    imo, Chief Judge Belvin Perry was an excellent Judge, that’s why he is re-elected time after time as “CHIEF Judge” superving approximately 75 ther Judges. Judge P is was fair to both sides & giving each side respect, something we have NOT seen in this case. The problem in KC’s case is that those that think in an Opening statement, ONLY facts can be told the Jury, they are CLEARLY WRONG.

    NO ONE could have imagined a 3 yr. attorney that had been denied a license to practice law in Fla. for 8 years due to his lack of moral character would tell a Jury, “Caylee drowned” without providing one scintilla of evidence & that KC’s father, George, “molested her.” Beaz didn’t provide one scintilla of EVIDENCE that supported his statements but the Jury didn’t care, they took Baez’s opening statements to be facts and allowed KC to walk on non existent evidence.

    EVERY legal analyst I have seen has said “there was more than enough evidence to convict KC.” Judge Perry did an interview last week with NBC in which he stated: “The Defense was out lawyered by the State,” that “Baez was likeable” & compared him to a “used car salesman.” Judge Pery too stated he ” was shocked by KC’s verdict.” Dan Abrahams stated “there was more than enough evidence to convict KC, the Jury from Pinella WAS NOT going to convict her, no mattter what.”

    • I am somewhat familiar with all of this but thanks. You did not mention any examples of misconduct by the State or junk science evidence. Have you read the book or a synopsis of it?

  5. jordan2222 –

    I wanted to share the link w/Judge Perry’s interview w/you. jordan2222

    “Justice has been served in the sense that the jury has spoken but justice will finally be served one day by the Judge of judges,” Perry said during the morning show. “And she’s going to live, deal with this for the rest of her life.”

    The case was circumstantial, he said, and “all the defense had to do was inspire reasonable doubt.”



    • Thanks but I had already read the article and watched part of the vid. I still disagree that there was enough evidence to convict and it’s not because I live in Pinellas County.

    • I’d take them after sunset. I think Nelson will reject the motion, just because carrying out the scene review requires the judge to be present.

      • The video I seen of the scene at 7:12 p.m. was revealing. You get a sense of just how dark it was and why GZ would have had to exit his car to answer Sean’s questions.
        See Marinade Dave’s video of it.

        • It would be very difficult to replicate that night. It would have to be one year later with identical weather conditions including the phase of the moon. How do you do that?

          Do you have a link for that vid by Dave ?

        • Nettles. Disregard my request for a link. This is a perfect example of what I have said about links being posted at the end of a comment. NOTHING shows up in Yahoo email unless the link is followed by another word or two.

        • Actually, it really tears DD story to pieces, as it demonstrate how difficult it would have been to a) identified someone, even GZ said “I think he is black” b) In order for GZ to maintain visual he would have to be almost on top of each other c) it show how easily TM could have hidden to sneak behind GZ d) it shows that due to the darkness, there is no way GZ could accurately tell where the fight ended e) it clearly shows that for the encounter to happen at the T, TM had to come back to the T.

          • You are right. I think that overall, any reasonable analysis of the events and crime scene will result in people understanding what George went through that night. I was just remarking about the text on the screen during the video, which makes it clear that Marinade Dave has an axe to grind.

            • You right about that, but even not wanting to, he has shown the fallacy of the prosecutions case. It blows most stories out of the water, when the actual circumstances are applied.

              • OK, the incident happened around 7PM on 2/26 and it was raining . Do you know the exact date that Dave’s video was made? That could be significant.

                  • The moon phase would have been different, too, in addition to the rain. I do not know what phase we were in on those dates.

          • Agreed. And more broadly, I think it will reveal the scale of the crime scene, i.e., it wasn’t that far for TM to have made his way back home, so I’m a fan of the field trip.

      • Even though it would be impossible to duplicate the lighting, weather conditions AND the moon phase for that night, I am thinking the jury will make the request themselves to see the scene of the incident. You can reasonably pick a night and time that would come close but it will be much later than 7PM during the summer.. maybe past Nelson’s and BLDR’s bedtime. Didn’t this happen in the Scott Peterson case or am I remembering wrong about seeing and then testing that boat. Did the jury make that request? Even so, it has happened in other trials.

    • This is essential, IMO. I cannot imagine it being denied. As I have said, the jury is going to want to go there and see for themselves.

      Where are those ping logs and GPS stuff ? Is it really possible that they could pinpoint the past that each one took, with fairly precise locations along the way?

    • “Busting the Traynut “tried to unlawfully detain” fantasy wide open ”

      I’m not sure I see the connection.

      Are you saying Zimmerman did not try to detain Martin, or that he did, but it was lawful?

    • There ya go. Maybe we can recruit and train gators to help us fight when the revolution begins.

    • I thought she’d refuse to give testimony based on spousal privilege, but instead she invoked the 5th amendment. Maybe spousal privilege is somehow (but would only be partially) waived, due to her remarks at the bail hearing.

      I think there are serious relevancy issues too, if the state is just poking around the PayPal and passport issues. The question at trial will not be “will he flee.”

      Look for the state to move to incarcerate Zimmerman for the duration of the trial.

          • No. It’s real. A simple way to distinguish is that if the prosecutor asks what YOU did (or said), you plead the fifth; and if the prosecutor asks what your spouse did (or said), you assert spousal privilege.

            At the risk of inviting more questions (and I’m about to put you on a 1 or 2 or 3 answers per day per customer list), any simple rule has some exception, some example question, that causes the rule to break down.

            • Oh, Brother.. . more complications coming. I will NOT thank you for that . Wish we could keep it simple.. LOL

            • I just noticed this:

              I’m about to put you on a 1 or 2 or 3 answers per day per customer list

              Are you serious?

              • That’s your fourth question today. Come back tomorrow.

                Okay, that was supposed to be funny. On a serious note, all I was letting you know was that my capacity to answer is not unlimited, I don’t have all the answers, and at some point I’ll either get tired or bored or both. You can ask all the questions you want, by the way. All I am limiting is responses and answers.

                • You have become the man who knew too much. It’s your own fault. No sympathy from me for “know it all’s.”

      • Yeah, I’d say there’s some serious work going on over at MOM’s offices. He still has the response to the state’s response to his motion for writ to file today, too.

      • Anonymous jury is big deviation from normal jurisprudence, and typically reserved for trials of known mob members, due to the mob being successful at intimidating jurors by killing some of them.

        • Heh. At paragraph 22, O’Mara uses Nelson’s own words as argument why his motion should be granted. Nelson has been very protective of witnesses, will she be protective toward the venire and jury?

          Paragraph 41 shows another angle where this case is upside down. It’s not that defendant poses a threat or risk to the public, rather the reverse.

          16 pages of motion, the rest is attachments showing the back-side of the press and significant players in the perpetually offended industry.

            • I had to look up venire.. Damn, I will be a legal analyst by the time this is over. I want my own damn TV show with everyone here as guests on a rotating panel.

        • Well, presuming the jury and the judge are/remain “untainted,” an Acquittal will absolutely place the life of each juror in jeopardy, no? More gravely, I do wonder if any court in (central to southern) Florida can protect the rights and lives in this case? Or perhaps even the whole state of Florida, given the history and relationships of its Attorney General and her minions.
          Am I paranoid? I don’t think so. I’ve been involved in criminal law for a long time; I have never seen such a “look the other way” line up of politicians and news media as we have today.
          I hope I am wrong.

    • ackbarsays – thanks for the link, that was a GOOD READ! LOL, I especially loved MOM calling some of those out that have been the most abusive.

      Of course, you always have a nut job r 2 juror that does the Media Blitz after a trial seeking their 15 minutes of fame. A couple of the juror’s from KC’s trial were caught up in the “CSI Effect,” that needed a VIDEO of the murder. I guess they wanted to explain themselves but they only inflamed the public more with their ignorance, they CHOSE to come forward, they should have kept their mouths closed imo

    • The defense beautifully laid out the facts that the media lies were orchestrated originally by Crump, and his PR team. The exhibits should have been damning, but of course Nelson could care less. But I am glad that they got that information out there, at least for anyone reading the motions.

      • The motion itself should be enough to dismiss the charges. Who but the blissfully ignorant could read this and not get the picture? SD’s brilliant 5 page commentary begs for answers.

      • He did include the picture of Foxx wearing a T-shirt trying to back away from that slogan by coloring the ‘NO” and making it read “kNOw justice, ‘kNOw peace”. The orginal slogan must have made someone reconsider using it as is.

      • “O’Mara said the slogan ‘No justice, No peace’ is ‘…laudable on its own…’? Ugh.”

        Think of it as a prediction or observation rather than a threat.

        A world with no justice knows only the peace of the mass grave, or such “peace” as is enforced by tyrants.

        • I understand the concept of justice vis-a-vis a civil society, but the referenced phrase has been co-opted as nothing but a mob threat in recent years, hence my reaction.

    • I’ve added a link at the top with all the hearings. I still have to put in March’s hearing. If you find one, shoot it to me won’t you. The Feb. 22nd one is there.

      • Nettles – thanks to you too, I was searching the other day for some info in a hearing, I didn’t save the links for the hearings so you made it easy.

    • BTW, if anyone has a place to put it up permanently go right ahead if you want. Link here if you do. Also, I’ll take requests if anyone wants a pdf OCRd. 😉

      • Thanks for doing this. I have 47 pages but cannot find the CTH post, Exhibit C. On page 23, I do see the Last Refuge (aka CTH) but no Exhibit C. Is that page all of it?

          • I trashed the pdf file. How many pages were there.? The stamp for Exhibit is not visible as I mentioned but all is well. Thanks again. BTW, a version of this app came with some of the old original Imacs on a free disk supplied by some vendors. I used it to convert faxes to text.

            • And scanned files to text. Wh
              o knows where this reply will end up. Sorry, I cannot fix it. Replies are limited at this time.

        • Look at the exhibit where the picture of the rally, where the CTH inserted the names above Parks and Crump etc. That’s the one that mentions the CTH. They are up on a stage, it appears to be nighttime, and at the CTH I believe they had included pointing out the Black Panthers at that rally. The Black Panthers are not pointed to in the exhibit.

          • Thanks minpin but I now have all of it pages 23 through 27. Exhibit C is not stamped on my version which was confusing .

            See my other comments about that CTH thread… one of the best that SD ever made . It is truly insightful and truthful. I consider it a must read whether you like CTH or not.

          • That thread showed what SD does best .. awesome commentary. NOW, I wonder who will be asking questions about BGI, the semi secret CRS, Black Caucus, and the other “xxxx motivated groups” as well as the truth about the players involved in this scheme.
            xxxx : Fill in the blank yourself.

            Maybe Nelson will learn something along with others who read this. Does she really know all of this as some have claimed? IDK.

            SD’s post summarizes perfectly the political and racial motivations that have caused the persecution of a completely innocent man.

            Sorry to even mention race but it is essential to accurately discuss this motion.

            Shame., shame., shame.

      • Your timing of asking this is a little off for me. I’m trying to figure out what you and Jordan are talking about. I’m feeling a little dumb myself right now.

        What is OCRd mean? What’s the issue with pdfs? Can some computers not read them?

        • Optical Character Recognition. Conversion of a graphic into plain text. Many people prefer plain text to a scanned in PDF file, generally because it is a much smaller file (10 to 100 times smaller), and also because it is searchable.

          And yes, some computers can’t read pdf files. I do know for a fact that blind people who use computers will prefer text to graphics, becuase the software that converts to voice works much better with text.

          • Wow! This would be a huge help in my job. Not the job with the defense team but the other one 😉

            Thanks for this. I’ll see if I can put the link on the sidebar so it’s handy for those who want to use it.

            Thanks again!

            • I put it up on scribd. Should be a more permanent and useful place for it. I also put up the state’s reply to the writ b/c that’s also a book. I haven’t really checked them out carefully or corrected any OCR errors.

        • OCR means Optical Character Recognition. It’s software that can convert images of text to editable text. Acrobat Pro also does this very well.

        • OCRd means “Optical Character Recognitioned.” That last word isn’t really a verb, but basically it means the documents were scanned and then a computer algorithm was applied to the scanned image to recognize the characters in the document. This is then converted to editable and searchable text.

  6. A sample of the correspondence mailed to the defense team, found in the motion to have an anonymous jury pg. 42/46

    The envelope came from “Malcolm X” in New York.

    • If we had a real Justice Department, they’d step in and ensure the safety of George and Shellie and the defense team. As it is, Holder is probably egging on “his people.”

      • I found that shocking that both the State and Judge Lester minimized the threat and danger that George Zimmerman was living under in June of 2012.

        Then I’ve witnessed BDLR adopt the threats and danger the Zimmermans’ are living and projected it onto the Martin Family on why they need to have their address protected. He said they lived in fear. All the while, they are hopping from one media outlet to another. Church to church collecting money.

        The fear doesn’t come from George Zimmerman. They have never made an allegation they are worried about him attacking their family. So why can’t the defense have access to those witnesses addresses? Shameful.

        • Exactly. Those of us who comment on these blogs are among the most pro-Zimmerman people you will find. I have never one time seen anyone say anything here, on CTH, on D-Man’s blog, on Mike McDaniel’s blog, or elsewhere that I frequent, that could in any way be deemed threatening to any member of the Martin family or to Ben Crump. All of the vitriol in this case is on the OTHER side. All of the threats in this case have been on the OTHER side.

        • IF, big IF, the world finally sees what Crump and Trayvon’s parents have done to deceive us and destroy George., THEN and only THEN, might they be fearful. That is pure speculation.. not a threat.

          • Unfortunately, imo I don’t think so, there are a few people who are still delusional, but they are about the case not about the family. They fully understand and are supportive, those that are not supportive were never in their camp to begin with.

            The same reason they support Sharpton, Jackson and others, they feel that while they are scam artists and extortionists, they are doing for the betterment of them all. Hard to explain and ever harder to understand the reasoning, but it is there.

            • Lots of crazies exist. My comment was only hypothetical speculation.

              A lot of folks believed someone would kill OJ including Fred Goldman but it did not happen. Hopefully they will also leave Casey alone and now George, as well.

              What the hell is wrong with us talking about things like this? What a system, huh?

    • It was funny seeing the ads he left in the exhibits. That is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. No doubt about it.

      • BLDR will object about the ads being irrelevant and thus renders the motion null and void. . He is that much of a looney tune.

  7. Nettles, MOM/West do realize they have to file their response today, right? They’re sure cutting it close, and cutting into my TV time, to boot.

      • I had a problem with the screen going white, and not being able to read the posts unless I highlighted them. It went away, and the problem didn’t exist for the last several days. Today the screen has gone to white again, and the posts are unreadable for me unless I highlight the comments. In addition, the screen seems to be trying to flash on black a few times and then settles to white.

        Nettles please can I ask if you would go back to what it was for the last few days.

        • I am replying to minpin but the reply feature is screwed up again. Says I am replying to coreshift,

          Where are all of the mods when you need them?
          WTH. We have NO mods? Holy cow. (sarc.)

          Minpin. Do you have another web browser you can try? I have to use at least two to read blogs: Firefox and Safari but am starting to like Opera a lot, too. Seriously, it IS a POSSIBLE solution based on what you have said.

          • Jordan, thank you for the suggestion but, I have no interest in trying another web browser. I use Firefox. Do you forget that I am stuck with dial up with a lousy old landline? Do you forget that I am computer illerate?

            • I did not forget. I never knew it.

              Holy cow, minpin. I did not know that dial up still existed. Where on earth do you live? Are you out in the sticks?

              I am speechless but meant no disrespect.

            • You can install other browsers in addition to, instead of instead of, Firefox, and only actually have open the one(s) that you need at any given time.

              You just have to remember to tell Firefox to make itself the default browser again afterwards.

              For instance, I keep Internet Explorer around just because it works better with a certain Sudoku site.

              I use Google Chrome for checking my bank account online because it’s easy to wipe out all history and cookies on it without screwing up all my automatic forum logins on Firefox, and also that set of “fly-over” computer graphics the New York Times posted last year didn’t work well in FF but was fine in Chrome, so it can be handy to have an alternative.

              And tell all of them that your home page is


          • Yes Nettles, it is now perfect. Thank you so very much. I appreciate all you do to accomodate everyone Nettles. You is da best!

          • Nettles; Just a suggestion. .Slow down, take your time and “think through” any changes BEFORE you make them. Each time you make a change, it affects everyone. I know you are trying to help minpin but.. now I am having issues.

            Please ask someone for help if you need it. Again, I am only trying to be helpful.

    • Maybe it was filed. Who’s around to put it up at this time of night? The defense wouldn’t likely put it up on their site until it’s made official.

    • The defense can fax it in at 11:30 pm. I didn’t and don’t expect to see it on the GZLegal site before 8:30 or so tomorrow. If past performance is an indicator, it will show up at GZLegal at least one full business day before it appears on the court docket.

      • Wait a minute. Didn’t you post this? I asked some questions about it.

    • It’s entirely possible that the defense team may have already sent their response. They have been very busy today and may have not posted their response yet. The 5th DCA website is useless. The last posting on the site I check still shows the Crump filings as the last filings.

    • Nettles. I can now see the link/video. This is so awesome. I have often voiced my opinion at other sites that we should respond by organizing and doing this very thing. I wrote a passionate post but only got a few supporters. I became disillusioned because “what can we do?” is a common question. Made me wonder if anyone was serious.

      When you started this blog, I read your mission statement and figured you or someone would make this very suggestion. I did not because I had been shunned before. And little old sensitive me did not want to risk getting my feelings hurt again. LOL

      This has made my day.

      If 10, 000 people show up will Sharpton and Jesse send in “their people” to respond? The larger question is will Eric Holder send in troops to “quell the racist white rioters?”

      I am ready for battle and only wish I could be there even if only for a day or two. I will still try to see if I can get someone to go with me.

      Here is his website. Check out the videos.


      Thanks for the terrific news.

      By all means this should be at the top of every thread to help get 10, 000 supporters over there.

  8. Pingback: May 10, 2013 – Open Thread | Nettles

  9. ackbarsays wrote on MAY 9, 2013 AT 2:20 PM:

    I can just see Angela Corey: “What difference does it make, at this point?”

    I THOUGHT THAT was Hillary Clinton’s line…(about Benghazi?)
    Oh…that’s right!! That’s OBAMA’s line about EVERYTHING!
    (of course, they all copy and share! I forgot)

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