Home » Uncategorized » May 16, 2013 – Open Thread

May 16, 2013 – Open Thread

God BlessThank you to all who participate here.  I’m enjoying the conversation and the collective effort to ensure the State of Florida doesn’t get away with what they are attempting to do to George Michael Zimmerman.  Thank you to Captain Long for the photo.  Yesterday was a quiet day for new news in the case.

I expect a motion to continue to be filed soon and we await the higher court’s decision on deposing Mr. Crump.  If you haven’t submitted a vote, please do so and let us know your prediction.

For newcomers, please know that racist remarks will be removed.  If you are presenting yourself as a George Zimmerman supporter, please keep in mind this man is in a fight for his life.  Conduct yourself in a way that won’t bring heartache and/or embarrassment to the Zimmerman family.

If you’d like to share something privately, you can email me at nettles@bell.net

For those who can, please use the link at the top of the page to make a donation to the defense fund.  Watch out for fake donations accounts and if you come across any, be sure to notify the defense team.  Thank you for helping.


70 thoughts on “May 16, 2013 – Open Thread

  1. On a serious note, I’ve been thinking about what happens if this case ends up with a hung jury, which is entirely within the realm of possibility given the racial tensions that exist. Should that occur, will the state prosecute again? Their case certainly isn’t going to get better over time.

    • I think it would depend on how badly the deadlock was. If it was closer to a conviction I would think they would re-try, on the other hand it was close to an acquittal, the prosecution would bow out, imo.

      The longer the case goes the worst it gets for the prosecution, plus some things are bound to get out, that would make it harder for them to convict. On re-trial the defense would have an easier time rebutting the case.

    • It appears to me that the 5th DCA issues opinions on Fridays. See 5DCA Opinions Page. I checked all of the opinions for the weeks of May 6 and April 29, and all of them were released on the Friday of the respective weeks.

      I don’t think this appeal poses any particularly difficult issue for the appellate court, ao an answer tomorrow is likely. If the answer doesn’t come out tomorrow, it is, IMO, almost certain to come out on the 26th of May.

      The 4th DCA issues opinions on Wednesdays at 10:30 a.m. 4DCA Opinions Page

      Opinions are released weekly on Wednesdays at 10:30 A.M. in PDF format.

  2. Apparently there exists a map of ping logs that show TM was NW of the 7-11 at some point that night. I have to assume that MOM has that already. Why hasn’t it been put into discovery?

    • Martin’s phone records are protected. All that we’ll see from them is what is actually presented in the courtroom.

      • I guess I’m not understanding that protection. I assumed it was intended to protect the privacy of others TM may have communicated with. A very vague map of TM’s location that ping logs would provide really doesn’t seem like a violation of anyone’s privacy to me.

        • That’s my feeling about his school records. I guess I could understand to some degree the protection of phone records, since his phone was also part of Tracy’s account, so Tracy still has some protection, but school records won’t violate anyone’s privacy because he’s no longer alive.

    • “I have to assume that MOM has that already. Why hasn’t it been put into discovery?”

      Be reminded that it was the defense team who found the map of the ping logs in the FDLE files on their field visit to their offices on January 9th. On January 18th, the defense filed a notice of reciprocal discovery. http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0113/defendant_supplemental_discovery.pdf

      You may recall that about a month later, we learned the video-tapes they took at 3 surrounding areas turned out to be blank and they had to fight to get playable copies of the tapes.

      On March 12, 2013, the defense set-up the website for the posting of Reciprocal Discovery and I got excited it was coming soon. We waited and we still wait today.

      In an email to the Defense support team, when asking about why the delay in giving the reciprocal discovery I was told the redaction process was the holdup. Someone else about a month later inquired and was told it would be released “when the time is right.”

      The State appears to be getting nervous about what the Defense has and has motioned for its release and the “chatter” on twitter by two of the Martin/Fulton lawyers indicates they are quite curious as well.

      The State has made it painfully obvious that by the time they got the case, they were only looking for evidence to convict Mr. Zimmerman. They weren’t interested in anything that may evidence that Mr. Martin was not victimized that night.

      When Pam Bondi and others said no stone unturned, they meant in investigating George. It’s been left entirely on the shoulders of the defense team to learn what Trayvon Martin was doing that night and why.

      After the last court date in a presser, we learned the ping log map showed Trayvon Martin was outside the area of 7-Eleven and the Complex. At the time of the presser (April 30th), Mr. O’Mara said, he truly does not know why the phone would ping off a tower north-west of the area. It sounds to me like the investigation is still ongoing and they will release the information once they know what it is telling them.

      The State’s motion to compel reciprocal discovery might hasten the release and like we’ve witnessed the State do to the Defense, Mr. De La Rionda may get the discovery handed to him just as court is to begin on May 28th. Then Mr. O’Mara can tell the Judge he got it, why are we discussing it.

      • This incident leads me to wonder if the State would have ever handed this map over to the Defense if they (the Defense) hadn’t found it.

        Secondly, what else has the State left buried in the files?

      • I have NEVER seen or heard of a case in which both sides agreed to a slow release of discovery. That in itself is telling and I hope there exists a written agreement about it but I have doubts. I started asking about the lack of absence of defense discovery long ago but no one had answers until the mutual decision for slow release became known. Other sites have verification of this, I think, including public statements made be MOM . Check DMan’s site for the clips. It was either SD or DMan who unveiled some troubling decisions made by MOM. For the record, I am not a member of the MOM bashing club but I most certainly acknowledge he has made mistakes and serious errors in judgments. Dman has an exclusive thread about them.

        IOW, both sides changed the normal rules.

  3. I wasn’t feeling well last night, so I prepared today’s post at around 10pm, last night and set it to post at midnight. It worked!

    I got a great night’s sleep, feel great today and in checking the site this morning found no problems. Thank you Everyone!

  4. Nettles ~ Glad to read you are feeling better, thanks for all you do for us. You make an excellent point on the “reciprocal discovery,” I too hope MOM/West HAND IT to BDLR before Court as you opined. It would leave BDLR very little time to file more MOTIONS since the cut off is May 30th I think. MOM still needs to file the MOTION for a continuance, since BDLR has probably written his objection to the continuance as he is aware it is coming, many suggest it may well be BDLR begging for a continuance.

    I hope MOM is interviewed by all the usual MEDIA after the Court Hearing & shares everything damning in the discovery. While MOM/West are at the Court Hearing, maybe the office staff is posting the reciprocal discovery to GZ Legal site, LMAO!

    • I have not changed. The trial must be delayed. IMO, the motion for a continuance should be a stand alone version, well documented with the facts even some of them point to Nelson.

      I would love to hear West say in the motion, “We have no money left and will need several months to obtain it in order to insure George’s right to due process. He CANNOT get a fair trial without a defense.”

      My add:
      So look lady, how about doing the right thing for once?

  5. Since there hasn’t been much happening around I spent some time reading the pro martin sites today. I find it hysterical that they think the ,”there shall be,” line is credible. They think its evidence that zimmerman enjoyed hearing martin beg. They believe all the states witnesses even when they contradict each other, even when they are obviously ridiculous. I know I shouldn’t waste my time, but it really is very funny the way they see things. If someone hired by OMara said that martin said , “there shall be”, in a preachers voice, I would assume that the exprt they used was a quack, and be embarrassed for the whole zimmerman side. Not the traybots though. They can fit anything into their fairytales.

    • “I find it hysterical that they think the ,”there shall be,” line is credible. ”

      Reich actually claims to hear “these shall be”, not “there shall be”.

      Of course for either of those phrases to be uttered in those circumstances is such an unlikely thing to happen that it fails into the category of an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary proof.

  6. RE: State’s motion in limine regarding calling of witnesses

    When I first read this motion on Monday, my mind immediately went to either Wit 8 or Serino.

    After seeing the subsequent 16th Dump from the state, I’m wondering now if the state wasn’t talking about the March 30th report from Hollein/Harnsberger. Corey stated at the very beginning of this fiasco that their case weighed heavily and perhaps even exclusively on who made the cries for help heard in the background of the 911 calls. That said, I’m sure she wasn’t too pleased when the objective H&H voice analysis came back stating that (where any comparison was possible) the data ‘quite clearly’ indicates that TM did not make the cries.

    This was yet another point when the state should have dropped all charges… first the state learned that it’s star witness was lying to them, and now they find out that their strongest piece of evidence indicates Zimmerman is innocent. Instead, the state went ‘expert shopping’ to find someone else who would be willing to provide them with the opinion they wanted.

    I’m gonna go out on a very sturdy limb here and presume the state will not be calling H&H to the stand, and for equally obvious reasons they wouldn’t want the defense informing the jury that the state was intentionally withholding the H&H analysis from their consideration.

  7. Hi guys. Nettles I like your format for the blog. I wish I had something to say about this case, but I’m in a holding pattern it seems. Can anyone think of a reason why the defense’s Motion to allow experts to testify via video conferencing would not be allowed? Maybe we should list 1, 2, 3, all the motions that State has going, and by number predict which ones will be granted and which ones will be denied. Including today, everyone has 7 days left to file responses.

  8. The Video/Skype was common in KC’s case before trial. Those that authorized KC’s payments submitted by the Defense used it frequently & they were in Fla. (KC was indigent, lots of red tape involved for payment, they would only pay a set fee, although they paid Dr. Henry Lee over $ 6,000.00 & he didn’t testify) imo, it just wasn’t as effective as having those in the Court room making the opposing argument.

    I understand the air fare is expensive, in addition, the expert would need hotel, food, & normally they have an expense account for transportation or necessities BUT this is really important. I wish someone would step forward to pay it. I am so disheartened & have lost confidence in Judge N, it’s likely she will deny the Defenses Motion UNLESS it is an appealable argument.

    Chief Judge Belvin Perry let some things go in favor of the Defense UNLESS he thought they could use it on appeal AFTER a verdict, he had only been successfully appealed 1 X.

    • Art- Judge Perry is not Judge Nelson, and Judge Nelson is not Judge Lester. And those three are not any judge that controls their own courtroom as they see fit.

      There have been many defendants and/or witnesses that have testified via video connection such as Skype. Those defendants that have been viewed as dangerous are videoed from their respective prisions. Skype has made virtual presence possible. The person testifying or whatever on the Skype screen are all but present in the courtroom. The person at the other end has full access to the audio from the courtroom. The courtroom has full video and audio access to the person on the other side of the screen. You can watch the body language, the facial expressions, and the inflection in the voices.

      In this day and age, the necessity for someone to be physically present has been erased. There really is no reason for the defense to spend their precious dollars on hotel, food, and any other traveling expenses for an expert witness. In this particular case, I would have to believe that anyone testifying for the defense would want to stay as far away from the Sanford area as possible.

      Skype has changed everything, and I would agree that it makes it unnecessary that anyone be present at the location to give credibility to what they have to say. The defense has been brilliant in filing this motion. Of course the state has wanted to break GZ’s almost non-existent bank from the get go. Forcing the defense to pay for experts at trial, who would have to take the witness stand, would eliminate much needed dollars for other issues not including the rediculous position that it was Martin screaming for help.

      The KC case was as different from GZ’s case as night and day. KC was charged with murdering her daughter in the first degree. Self defense was not any part of the KC case. GZ is trying to prove that he acted in self defense. I feel pretty certain that Lester and Nelson would have been considering a whole nother set of rules if they were on the KC case. Really, it is night and day.

      • pinecone -Everyone understands why the Defense is using SKYPE due to the lack of funding. I DID NOT compare KC’s charges & GZ’s charges, EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS the differences, that was not the point. I fully understand SKYPE & watched it in KC’s case.

        The point was: the TECHNOLOGY in KC’s case is the VERY SAME technology that will be used in GZ’s hearing, the very same! I watched video testimony in a Court Hearing before via SKYPE, have you? I certainly didn’t feel like those testifying were in the Court room, they are viewed on a screen the size of a TV.

        It is the best the Defense can do & everybody understands that, I don’t see it as brilliant but as a necessity due to funding. imo, testifying via SKYPE isn’t better than their physical presence in the Court Room, hopefully, MOM will be successful.

  9. Kim and I were talking with Shayan Modarres and he was being quite insulting towards me yesterday. Yesterday was his 29th Birthday, so after a nasty tweet from him, I tweeted back a Happy Birthday message and decided to ignore him from now on.

    Quite out of the blue, Natalie Jackson inserted herself into the tweets with this

    I’ve never engaged the woman. This cannot be Natalie Jackson’s account. If it is, her behavior is absolutely bizarre.

    • Shayan, is rude and arrogant to its no surprise that NatJack and him are colleagues. I read his insult towards you, very disrespectful when you were only trying to be civilized. But IMO with Shayan, unlike NatJack, this is an act. He can be civil when he wants, but around certain followers he needs to show up.

    • It’s either some mean teenage girl hijacks NatJack’s account occasionally, NatJack occasionally regresses to the personality of a mean teenage girl, or NatJack really does have the personality of a mean teenage girl and uses the facade of a professional as a cover. Same with Shayan. 🙂

      I think they both have serious emotional problems.

    • ‘They’re intimidated by my light. The glow makes them feel small.’ At the risk of bragging, I’ve met and worked with some very important and powerful people in my professional career, other business dealings and a few social situations. Almost to the person, the most impressive trait about these individuals is their humility. An argument could be made that they have ample reason to be arrogant or snobbish, yet they are frequently the complete opposite. And then you have a neophyte lawyer proclaiming her own imagined glory, while concurrently insulting others… Infra dignitatem.

  10. Sundance claims he knows the identity of DD #1 and he will release it before Crump’s interview (if so ordered). Seems like that would be Francine, who was the 16 year old Krop student. Probably not that hard to find a Francine, now 17, at Krop. Sundance plays around a lot, so who knows how reliable his information is. Seems like the defense would have this information as well, since West mentioned Francine. If Sundance really had the information, why would he wait to release it? So Crump can’t prepare, I suppose.


    • I’ll reserve judgement for now. There is a way to get this information by checking the passenger lists on the planes for August 2nd and 3rd and matching them up with students at Krop. We know one passenger was Francine.

      Again cached social media will help learn the truth. While George has had the whole country against him what he’s had on his side is the truth. No matter what they throw up to him, it won’t stand the intense scrutiny this case is getting. A lie will be exposed. If it’s there, we will eventually know.

      • ok, thanks Judge Nelson! it would explain a LOT of confusing things though.

        i would not be surprised if West let Francine slip out accidentally on purpose. After all, Judge Nelson is clueless as to the facts of the case, so she hardly knows anything about the significance of the witnesses.

    • If State knows identity of Francine they should have turned that info over, however, defense could subpoena airlines for the identity of Francine because Francine got on the plane with DD.

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