Home » Uncategorized » June 11, 2013

June 11, 2013

JFZGRobert Jr

“No, you don’t charge in this country simply to assuage the concerns of masses.  You charge when there’s probable cause, and I have no doubt that Mr. Lee, the former Chief of Sanford Florida, Chief of Police, and the district attorney’s office, or, state attorney’s office as it is here would have liked nothing more than to find any shred or ounce of probable cause that they could have used to charge George with any crime.  They in fact found none, and then it became politicized, and, unfortunately, a political calculation was made, centered around the politics of race, and the law was defiled.” 

~    Robert Zimmerman Jr.

DONATE_BUTTON2Thank you to everyone who has helped in the fund-raising effort. Last we heard (4pm June 9th) the fund was in excess of $85K.  The goal is to get $120K. Please continue to spread the news that help is needed.  Thanks again.

For newcomers, please know that racist remarks will be trashed. If you are presenting yourself as a George Zimmerman supporter, please keep in mind this man is in a fight for his life. Conduct yourself in a way that won’t bring heartache and/or embarrassment to the Zimmerman family.

Anyone who wants to share something privately, email me at nettles@bell.net

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250 thoughts on “June 11, 2013

  1. Did Reich admit during his testimony that he indeed needs a hearing aid? I read that elsewhere, but didn’t catch that during his testimony?

      • He has a very rare invisible but powerful hearing aid.. He could actually hear the grass growing so there you go. It proves that DeeDee has extraordinary hearing. The sale price for one just like it $8000.

      • I’ve seen it posted today on several different sites now that Reich has stated he has a hearing aid… not sure where that info (if correct) is coming from if not from the trial itself?

        I’m kinda surprised, though, that West didn’t question him directly about any hearing impairments for the purposes of establishing Reich’s (in)competency to even give an expert opinion in the matter.

        To quote BDLR, though… the matter speaks for itself. Reich was having obvious difficulty hearing and understanding West, Nelson, and Mantei.

        • The conclusion that Reich wears a hearing aid may have originated with me. I looked at my notes, and conclude that I must have made it up, because I see nothing in my contemporaneous notes that shows the question being asked of Reich.

          I’m not the only person who sepculated that Reich wears a hearing aid. A number of people independently said his responses make it appear he has or needs one. But I don;t know of any evidence that he in fact uses a hearing aid.

          • I first saw on Twitter while he was testifying by one on the lawyers that was Twitting about the case. Can’t record who it was and have not really tried to research it further, since at this point “what difference does it make”. Anyhow, it was also repeated by some reporters as well, not sure if it has been confirmed.

            • Thank you. I wouldn’t make something like that up on purpose, and I know I stated, as though it was a fact, that Reich wears a hearing aid. So maybe I did read it elsewhere and like you, can’t find the source.

              It doesn’t really matter. Even if he doesn’t wear a hearing aid, his opinion shouldn’t be allowed. But if it’s allowed, which I expect, the jury is not apt to find his conclusions credible.

  2. maybe the frye hearing will finish up soon. at this point though i believe judge nelson would allow bdlr to use a ouija board as an expert witness.

    • According to the docket sheet and minutes of Saturday’s hearing, “the balance of the Frye hearing will be heard sometime during the week of 6/10/13.” That is essentially an “order” by Nelson.

  3. Heck, I might not even bother to watch the selections process. Well, maybe I’ll catch a few days just to get a sampling of what ‘regular’ people think and believe.

    • Nejame: More and more, this case looks like it will be thrown out in criminal court and eventually be headed to civil court.

      He’s joking, right? Has there been the first hint that Conductor Debbie will throw this case out?

      • I don’t like Nejame’s commentary, for all sorts of reasons. On the point of being ‘thrown out” of criminal court, I think he includes acquittal as a means of being thrown out.

    • More and more, this case looks like it will be thrown out in criminal court and eventually be headed to civil court.

  4. How could Angela Corey approvingly sit in front row with Crump and victim’s family, all the while admiring her star attorney accused of criminal contempt? This stinks.

  5. O’Mara uses questions best suited for the defense in order to show prejudice against his own client. Brilliant!

  6. B-35: I don’t think it was a racial issue. Seems like this potential juror was coached to answer this way.

  7. Again, under the law, MOM cannot eliminate jurors on the basis of race ALONE. But there could be other biases.

  8. He was not with Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in terms of making it a racial case.

    If that’s the way it was, then that’s the way it would be.

  9. A stealth juror or rogue juror is a person who, motivated by a hidden agenda in reference to a legal case, attempts to be seated on the jury and to influence the outcome

  10. No big deal…I wear hoodies too–when it gets cold. West is going to grill this guy, in a nice way of course.

  11. http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/10/george-zimmerman-murder-trial-jury-questionnaire?hpt=hln10_1

    These are not the actual questions but I wonder why the public cannot see the blank forms. Why is that it? Does anyone know for sure?

    What surprised me was that many of the questions require longhand responses.

    I cannot imagine having to read written answers and interpreting/translating them. Surely there is a way to do this in advance. What happens when the answers cannot be deciphered? This is why we need better standards for jurors. (Maybe we could incorporate the ability to read and write into both jury selection and voting requirements.)

    • Nobody can see the jury questionnaire until jury selection is complete. Many potential jurors haven’t seen the form yet, so it would seem to be a good idea not to let the form get out there into the public realm until all of this is over and no juror will know ahead of time how to tailor their answers.

      • OK, thanks. . I can see that. Is it true that Nelson cannot now stop the process? Do you know how using this procedure came about and who was in on it?

    • Per the Commentators on WFTV with Bill Schaffer “they picked 21 people. (1 has been dismissed for hardship) They will do the pretrial publicity on these 20 people, then they go back to 4th floor. Then they will do the voir dire sp? That will be the time when chosen or dismissed, then go to the next group.” ** did not say where they got this info tho. I guess that makes some sense

  12. WEST: Did gz disobey the police?

    BDLR: Objection. Stating facts.

    Judge: Will give you leeway.

    B51: HIm being told to wait for police?

    WEST: What do you remember?

    B51: Police asked him to wait. (She has the facts wrong.) He didn’t wait…is a problem.

    • Part of the defense team? I think they were introduced as (I presume) law students who are assisting. No names were given, they have not been “introduced” to the court.

      • No, this is the girl in the dark green shirt who is sitting directly in front of a woman with red hair in a brighter green shirt. She’s not part of the defense team. It looks to me like she’s in the family row, one seat ahead and to the left of Rene Stutzman (looking from Rene’s perspective).

        There are actually two attractive blondes and a very attractive AA female on the defense team, and Shellie is sitting next to another very attractive blonde. Whoever did the seating – good job!

  13. she is so full of herself!

  14. Judge Nelson is overruled so many times and the defense wins many times against her. This is actually a strong case for the defense where the defendant is actually NOT guilty. I just hope it gets resolved at trial, and not at appeal.

  15. also LMBO Maggiemoowho just posted at TCTH that news was reporting only 3 protesters outside bahahahah

    • 26 percent? That shows how stupid Americans can really be. Doncha think it’s scary that these people get to vote?

  16. she doesn’t pay attention to the case. may be perfect juror.

  17. yes, bernie there is a comment section on facebook.

    she wouldn’t look at the comments for her friends? Hard to believe.

    • Normal rate is probably on the order of 2, 3 thousand per day. May give a good deal here either from duration (good assignment) or sympathy with defendant’s predicament, or friendship with O’Mara, or they just hit it off well. I’d say a minimum of ten grand, upper limit of twenty grand.

  18. Hah – ackbarsays on Ch 6 crawl. “You don’t think she’ll be dismissed just for the family vacaion, do you?” I think so. Dubai, India, family plans it in advance. This isn’t some tentative vacation plan, or one that can be rescheduled a month to accomodate the trial.

    • The remarks on the Ch 6 crawl are brutal against this prospect. Most express something along the lines that she is not credible.

  19. Church is ~3.5 miles from the neighborhood, hard to believe that they didn’t discuss things much before March 2013, or that her 16 year old kid didn’t hear anything about it.

  20. we all knew she was not going to be able to shut up!!!!!!!!

  21. well, if my theory is correct, if she goes to the 4th floor she is tentatively picked. doesn’t mean she can’t be unpicked later; or she might become an alternate.

    if she is not given a pass to the 4th floor, then goodbye.

    that’s my thinking……anyone know differently?

  22. Judge: Next Witness…………i mean potential juror…………i mean victim!!!!!!!!!!

    B65 rejected under my theory!!!!!!!!!!!!

    like she said, all the defense has to do is give a reasonable non-racist reason for rejection. bye bye!

  23. tony does not agree with my theory.

  24. hahahah. Bernie just made a fool of himself. Objected at O’Mara saying “I think you said Martin had been expelled ..” OBJECTION!! Court reporter advises Nelson, yes, the prospect used the word “expelled.”

  25. MOM: any hardship?

    B86: i wouldn’t be with my son.

    MOM: any chance he could be part of the jury pool?

    who says there is no comedy in the law?

        • I’ve said it many times. I posted this on Mike McDaniels’ blog yesterday or the day before:

          Mike, the prosecution and judge continue to give me reason to believe that they are engaged in a willful act of sophistry. They’ve known all along that Zimmerman is innocent of the charges, but have been instructed by those in the highest levels of power within the state and possibly the federal government to continue the prosecution in order to appease certain segments of society. Knowing what they are doing to an innocent man, BDLR, Corey, and Nelson are determined to be so over the top in their misconduct and bias that the appeals courts will have no choice but to overturn any conviction that might result. Then, they can wash their hands of it and place the blame on the DCA and/or Florida SC. I truly think this is what is happening in this case.

          • LOL, did you really think any of us would know what **sophistry** is?

            Guess I’ll hide out here since they keep busting me on twitter. Jerks.

            • sophistry [ˈsɒfɪstrɪ]
              n pl -ries
              1. (Philosophy)
              a. a method of argument that is seemingly plausible though actually invalid and misleading
              b. the art of using such arguments
              2. subtle but unsound or fallacious reasoning
              3. an instance of this; sophism

              Interesting word

    • E-6 is being purposely vague, I do not trust her to objective, she has an agenda. Her comment about NW might be a bad thing, and her “teachable”moment with kids exposes her as suffering from white guilt and ignorance. All these people who claim no real information about the specifics of the case are either LIARS or should never be allowed to vote in an election must less serve on a jury.

    • Anyone who doesn’t even understand that you can’t just arrest someone because the mob is demanding it, and doesn’t know that there has to be a probable cause (reasonably provable evidence) to arrest someone should not be anywhere near a jury. I know, that is unless you are Angela Corey. There is reasonable provable evidence that she has been prosecuting gz maliciously and should be arrested for her crime.

      • When I first heard about this case, the argument he should have been arrested, clicked with me. I thought they should have arrested him and let a jury decide if it was self-defense. I thought only a jury could decide that.

        The first time I can recall changing my mind on that was hearing Robert Jr. on Piers Morgan in late March 2012. He said we just don’t arrest people and put them through the expense of a trial unless there is evidence that can prove it wasn’t self-defense. For the first time, I thought yes, he’s right about that.

        Robert has tweeted out btw, he’ll be on Piers Morgan again tonight at 9pm EST on CNN. Let’s hope Piers lets Robert talk this time.

        • Nettles- No doubt you are one of many. Before I knew much about the case, when I saw Sharpton going to Sanford my radar went up, as he has gotten in the middle of every white on black losing case there is. If there is one lesson learned by the masses it should be to look for facts, details and evidence in every circumstance Sharpton involves himself in. I would say most of the GZ supporters have gotten some valuable lessons on the law, and how it “shouldn’t” work. It’s tragic that those lessons are coming at GZ’s expense. Also, don’t ever trust the MSM to tell the truth in a fair and unbiased manner. Without the MSM and their sick quest for selling sensationalism, there would not have been widespread threats of rioting across the country, and innocent people would not have been beaten and killed, in the name of Trayvon,

      • I think this is why the Corey and team have to go forward, and try to make a case of it. To prove that there was indeed something there, and their actions were justified. Win or lose does not matter now, but they have to prove a case could have been made.

        • Bori- I am so much more cynical and skeptical than you. I firmly believe that Scott and Bondi were not willing to take a hit to their general tourism income, the RNC convention, and the GOP primary debate that was held there. Wasn’t Bondi going around saying that she was promised a job in a Romney administration? I have no doubt that Sharpton and the Black Panthers were every bit serious that they would cause major mayhem in the state, and likely across the country. One innocent man’s life and his rights to equal due process laws had far less, if any value to them. It’s as though GZ was being held hostage by the race baiters, and the coward Scott was not willing to send a SWAT team to go in and get him out. After the political calculations were made, and the events were over, yes, then it was too late to even attempt to save face and not look like complete and total fools. The pig with lipstick, and the wart on her azz would have done it in any case, as they are just pure evil.

          • Minpin- I totally agree with you about the political and economic reasons for the State to arrest GZ and prosecution. I am talking about after.

            The schemers got everything they wanted. The local schemers got their new Black police Chief, Norm Wolfinger who they wanted out, had retired, the SYG laws had been reviewed by a civil rights commission, the HOA had settled with the Martin family, an arrest and charge had been done, so IOW they had gotten everything they had asked for. This is back in December of last year.

            The State could have easily, quietly have dropped the charges at that time. Recall how back in December of last year the Martin family was basically saying that they would support and accept the decisions of the State, at this time everyone had pretty much forgotten the story.

            The State had gotten the reports from cell phone, and could have said that new evidence had come to light that would have made the prosecution of the case impossible and drop it then. The State had opportunities to put this to rest before the anniversary of the incident and walked away and didn’t. Now I feel they are continuing for other reasons, that have nothing to do with the original reasons they started the prosecution.

            I am guessing this is now on Corey and BDLR, the governor very publicly wash his hands off this case and he said it was up to the Special Prosecutor to make the decisions and determinations of the case that he could not do anything else.

            Whether it was because the Governor was basically throwing them under the bus, or they were too arrogant and had gotten away with hiding information for so long, they thought that MOM would not catch them or thought they could turn this turkey into a actual winnable case.

            This is not about the law, that ship sailed the minute they bypassed the Grand Jury to press charges with no evidence, they did not drop the case when they had the opportunity to do it quietly, so this is about winning for the prosecution team.

            Now that everything has turned to mush for them, they have to save face at any cost.

            • We are in complete agreement Bori. Yes, once the train left the tracks, and were nearing the courtroom, the state could not stop what they had set in motion. There were so many times the state could have backed out, even somewhat gracefully if you will, with DD’s lies for one. They could have said that Crump had given them bad information. They should have been shamed into submission when the whistleblower spoke openilyabout the hiding of evidence last week. I blame Scott, Bondi, Corey, BDLR, the Scheme team, and yes, the citizens of Florida for allowing these people to do as they have without any sign of protest, calls for accountability from the government, no caring about how their tax dollars are wasted, and no major push against those like the OS and other news sites that have bought into the false narrative, and pushed it hard and heavy continiously. I also blame the citizens of the US for re-electing an already out of control president and Atty Gen., a party that has morphed into what can only be considered well on the path to mind, body and soul controlling of every citizen in this country. I am loath to bring up politics in this case, but it is hard not to when you consider all factors working against GZ, and every citizen that will find himself in this same boat. I am truly fearful for myself, my family, my friends, and anyone else that ever has to defend themselves against a black aggressor. Barack Obama said, just days before the 08 election, “we are just 3 days away from transforming America.” I don’t think many understood that meaning.

              • Minpin- You are tight on so many levels. The thing was he was not shy about telling people his plans, it was they all put their spins on what he said and interpreted in their own way. Much like with this case, they all heard the lies, they know that the little boy in the pictures is not the one who died, they just ignore it and look or point to something else.

                I have 2 young adults and a 6 year-old and worry about them all the time, for their future. I worry that if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time and they become scapegoats and pawns for somebody else’s goals/agenda. That thought is what keeps me trying to make sure everyone knows the truth about this case.

        • Bless them for their passion and effort. I hope they aren’t too disappointed when they learn that Mr. Crump lied to them and the family didn’t cooperate with authorities in the investigation that they demanded and asked the public to demand.

          • Nettles I can’t bless them for their passion and efforts when those very same passion and efforts have had George, and his entire family in hiding for fear of their lives for more than a year now. Their passion and efforts can put a man who honestly defended his own life in prison for a very long time, just so those passionate people don’t burn down neighborhoods, destroy property, and injure or kill innocent citizens.

            I understand where you are coming from as you are a very kind and caring person. The problem with excusing their actions is that it will lead to many more George Zimmerman’s if they are not stopped from their mob mentality, and mob rule for only those with their skin color. I have no doubt that they know very well that Crump and the family have been lying, but they have chosen to buy into the method of getting their version of justice. Can you only even imagine what would happen if whites, hispanics or Asians threatened to get justice their way as the blacks have? The blacks were unfortunately given a signal that their behavior and methods for justice were acceptable when Eric Holder dismissed an already won case against the Black Panthers when they showed up at PA polling stations in uniform and with billy clubs.

            • Agreed, and they have a well developed rationalization for why the family should not trust or cooperate with the investigation.

        • pinecone – LMAO! I thought it said “C O U L C I,” I saw the backward “D” after you stated it. I swear you can’t make this crap up.

          That mentality shown on these signs is the same mentality that helped free OJ on the murder of 2 innocent people, those that thought INSTEAD of evaluating the evidence during deliberations, they were instead trying to right a wrong they perceived over a 100 years ago. jmho.

  26. I don’t know how you guys got to be so lucky but you are privy to the first ever video production by Nettles. In my first production, I attempt to show why it wasn’t unreasonable for George to think Trayvon was suspicious when he came upon him at about 7:05pm on a dark, cold rainy night of February 26, 2012. Enjoy! and be kind. 🙂

  27. Thank you so much to Nettles and everyone who are providing commentary and recaps of the jury selection here for those of us who can’t watch during the day!! How does everyone know the ages, etc. of the potential jurors? Are they showing their faces on the live stream?

        • They are in the courtroom and the potential juror is seating to the left of the Judge in the jury box. They are not allowed to be shown on camera but those in the courtroom can see them.

          The reporters tweet out the sex, race (if known) and approx. age of the juror.

          • I guarantee you that as soon as ten are finalized, good investigative reporters will identify them within a day. Maybe they should have been given a choice in concealing their identities until the process was over by letting them wear hoodies or KKK gear. Just kidding but I would not be surprised to learn later that some of those who are not chosen are harassed.

    • Before this mess, I had never read about jury instructions but I have now read umpteen opinions. I suggest those who are really interested to know the legal deficiencies do some research because Hornsby left out some of the most important changes in jury instructions that were made as soon as SYG was passed. You will find the instructions before SYG were much more favorable to a defendant and you should easily find specifically how and why they changed and now favor the state. As a result, many are in prison because of those “faulty” instructions.

      There have been attempts to get them changed at least back to the old way, but they should be changed even more to make it at least fair for defendants. Sorry for not providing links but there are quite a few discussions about this. I think I started with a search for changes in self defense jury instructions since SYG was passed in Florida. Using “since SYG was passed” should narrow the results because many attorneys still appear to not know how SD jury instructions evolved. Hornsby is brilliant but since he does not even mention the changes, maybe he does not know either. He also fails to mention how often judges use their own interpretation of the instructions even though they are not supposed to do that. He also does not say anything about how often judges make slight word changes that have terribly negative results for defendants.

      Here is a good starting explanation of the changes:

      http://selfdefenseflorida.com/

      Here is his personal story, two years into a mandatory 20 year sentence;

      http://selfdefenseflorida.com/about.html

      For the record, I spent a lot of time researching his case and he has not told the entire story but that is not the point anyway.

      There are other discussions by lawyers and IIRC there was one judge who provided examples of how difficult it was to provide “appropriate” instructions due to prosecutors who “would not allow it.” Those were not the exact words but he harped on how all prosecutors had banded together to take full advantage of changes he claims were made intentionally to strengthen their cases to get more convictions. I will look for the link later. Another interesting thing I recall was the difference between our instructions and other states. I have had no time to do that cuz this state is the only one that matters now;

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