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June 22, 2013

Justice

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Judge Nelson ordered the exclusion of Mr. Owen and Mr. Reich’s testimony at trial. Will the state ask for an interlocutory appeal?

Yesterday the Judge explained in court that while she may have her decision on the Frye hearing done late on Friday, the attorneys will not know that decision until Monday. When Mr. West pressed her and asked could she not just let them know the decision and they could read the response on Monday the judge replied she doesn’t have a fax machine at home and she would prefer to answer in the way she usually answers. That is submitting the decision with its reasons in writing into the court record. So the attorneys start opening statements on Monday morning not knowing if they will be allowed to bring in experts or have the need to debunk expert testimony.

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Thank you to everyone who has helped in the fund-raising effort. Last we heard (4pm June 9th) the fund was in excess of $85K. I’ve been advised that no update will be given until after a jury is selected. I assume all energies are being focussed on jury selection right now. The goal is to get $120K. Please continue to spread the news that help is needed. Even a $5 donation will help. This is one worry we can take off George Zimmerman’s shoulders. Thanks again.

For newcomers, please know that racist remarks will be trashed. If you are presenting yourself as a George Zimmerman supporter, please keep in mind this man is in a fight for his life. Conduct yourself in a way that won’t bring heartache and/or embarrassment to the Zimmerman family.

Anyone who wants to share something privately, email me at nettles@bell.net

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175 thoughts on “June 22, 2013

  1. I don’t think “not knowing” makes much difference for purposes of opening argument. If the state says it will bring in experts, the defense can tell the jury that if the court allows experts, the defense has experts too. The defense can briefly explain that the defense experts will conclude that the state experts are drawing conclusions that science is not able to make. The defense could even give an example, like “too small a sample of DNA” doesn’t permit DNA experts to reach a conclusion, and in this case, the sound sample is too small, too weak, and contaminated. That isn’t a complete summary of why the state’s experts aren’t entitled to a conclusion, but it’s enough for an opening.

    I also think the court will tell the state and the defense what its decision is, before Monday, and may have already done that. Nelson did not want to make a public announcement separate from the written opinion / legal justification for the decision. She knows the press will speculate in a vacuum, and it’s better to give them a writing they can cherry pick from. If she didn’t have an explanation, the press might say she hadn’t explained herself, which implies an unreasoned decision. She does not want that.

  2. I’m looking forward to listening to what the state says in their opening. It’s difficult to imagine they can say anything that would support a murder charge that can be supported with evidence. I suspect they’ll try to use arguments that the Traybots have used and will end up looking very foolish to the jury and anyone watching the trial.

    • It might be the first time we get to hear the state’s theory of what happened. I say might be, because there is a substantial likelihood that the state won’t provide a theory, instead leaving it to the jury to make up a scenario to suit the elements of an unjustified use of deadly force.

      • Thanks for your insight here. Good call on getting the information before Monday. Thanks to you, I used the word interlocutory in a sentence for the first time ever in the update. 🙂

        • hahahah. Our first writing assignment in law school was on the propriety of an interlocutory appeal. Talk about a “huh?” moment.

    • Crap. My prediction comes true. I really wanted them in (details listed below), and therefore I predicted Nelson would exclude them so now she can proclaim how “fair” she is. Meanwhile all the crucial evidence about how Trayvon was a complete thug, failing out of school, constantly suspended, constantly fighting….will be excluded.

      I know it would have been more work and a headache for Omara and West, but in the end it would have been worth it as they would have thoroughly discredited Owen and Reich and made them a laughingstock in front of everyone but the die-hard Traybots,

      They didn’t scare me, but I was more than aware I could be wrong. I concede they possibly MIGHT have influenced the jurors.

      Now that these snake oil salesman are out. The floodgates are opened by the Traybots to bitch and complain about racism (and of course more reason to riot and pillage). They were setting this up late last week.

      Oh well, I’m disappointed, I would have much preferred them being laughed out of court. Now the Traybots have a scapegoat for when GZ is acquitted.

      • It is clear she paid attention so maybe 13 pages were needed just for the Crumpites. When did she ever write a 13 pager?

        • Good point, but the problem is the Crumpites don’t read.

          Do you see their latest claim that Crump and Sharpton are propagating, that GZ “admitted” to not being the screamer when he made the one offhand remark how the scream didn’t sound like himself.

          It is disingenuous at it’s worst. But the Trayvites are eating it up and spitting it out all over the internet to infect the uninformed.

          Yes it is true the arguments the Crump and Sharpton are using are a clear sign of desperation. But stirring up the lynch mob with racial hatred is their only play left….and they are playing it.

  3. There has been some talk that the state is precluded from appeal due to the jury being sworn. I don’t agree, not having seen clear authority on that point, and in light of the fairly obvious prejudice to the state’s case. The state only gets one bite at the apple, and it is not the state’s fault this order comes after the jury is sworn. The jury has not heard any testimony, not even opening argument.
    State’s turn to burn the midnight oil if it wants to have a shot at reversing this decision.

      • If they do appeal, in my opinion, it is just to buy some time they must need. There is no way this junk science could or should come in.

        It could provide them the cover they need if more time is needed by them.

        • I agree. The DCA has no interest in making this trial into a bigger mess than it is. And I think the state would rather not give the defense time to uncover more “issues” with the evidence.

  4. Defense had a really good week. Striking a couple of stealth jurors, and successfully convincing the judge to exclude the quacks.

    • And getting two jurors the prosecutors really didn’t want. Yep, the defense had a very good week.

      They will have some energy for their 5 depositions this weekend.

        • That wasn’t disclosed. As the motion for continuance said the State’s 2 investigators had not been made available for deposition along with another medical examiner, I’m guessing those might be 3 of them. But it is just a guess.

          Crump could be one. Not sure if the Judge was going to sit on that one or not. Didn’t sound to me like she planned on seeing the lawyers between Friday and Monday.

      • Even though I’m disappointed the persecution fraud experts won’t be laughed out of court. I am happy the defense is saving money, as they will need it.

        It’s a shame some rich well known Republican didn’t step in, but I’m not surprised no one did. The Republican elites don’t care about GZ and would gladly throw him to the wolves to keep the status quo.

        It’s the average person, Republican or Democrat who contributed money to GZ’s defense. They saw the injustice the state of Florida was persecuting on George to appease a rabid race fueled lynch mob…..and they cared.

      • Nelson stated in her order that the opinion testimony of Owen and Reich would not be permitted at trial, as their methods used were not accepted by the scientific community. I may have missed it, but I don’t remember reading anywhere that she also ordered that the defense experts would not be allowed to testify if the defense chose to have any of them do that.

        In the PCA, there was language which stated that the victim’s mother identified the screams as of that being her son’s. Robert Sr. has also stated that the screams were George’s. George said that he was screaming for help but no one came to help him. The first witness on the scene said that one of the first things George said was that he was screaming for help. Tracy told Serino that the voice was not his son’s, before he listened to the “cleaned up version of the tape” which does not exist.

        The judge has allowed for the tapes to be played, and that witnesses familiar with George and Trayvon’s voices can testify as to who they claim is screaming. Would it not behove the defense to not even put Robert Sr., or any Z family member on the stand, and to get Tracy to admit that he at first said it was not his son. Then put on one of the defense experts to say it is impossible to determine whose voice it is screaming. Then let the eyewitness testimony of W6 stating that TM was straddled atop GZ beating him to make the biggest impact on the jury. IOW, why would the person doing the beating, while having the other guy pinned down to the ground, be the one screaming for help. I am confident that the jurors will have at least that much common sense.

        • What the defense experts testified to, it that there is no scientific way to determine who was screaming.

          I believe I heard from Mr. French that the human ear can pick up distinctions with screams but no software or method has been developed to date to duplicate that.

          I remember when I heard it, I thought this is why the family can say it’s George. Something in his speaking voice can be heard by them in the screams.

          In order to do it, the person has to be very familiar with the screamer. None of the experts are or could be.

          • So BDLR will likely put Sybrina on the witness stand to say that it was her son screaming. As his mother she knows his voice, and she knows it was him screaming. Then you will see the defense put Robert Sr. on the witness stand where he will say that he knows his sons voice, and that he knows it was George screaming for help. The jurors will listen to the tape, and they will have absolutely no way of knowing who it was screaming as they have nothing to compare it to. That is why I don’t believe that the jurors will be able to determine who it was until they see the other evidence. Trayvon has grass stains on the knees of his pants, he had no wounds from any punches from George. George had grass stains on the back of his jacket, and the back was also wet. W6 saw Trayvon on top of GZ beating him MMA style. Before it was known who was shot, didn’t Austin Brown tell the police that it was the guy in red on the bottom that was screaming for help?

            You are right, the defense experts wouldn’t be needed. The claims by Sybrina and Robert Sr. will both prove nothing. It is one side against the other.

            I heard a short sound bite on the radio (ABC news broadcast) with Nelson saying that the state can use the term profiled. I thought I heard her saying that she would suggest that they not include racially to the term profiled. Did she definitely not allow racially, or did she just make the suggestion?

          • The judge’s order will prevent Mary Cutcher from testifying that it was the ‘little boy’ screaming. She is not familiar with either voices.

    • No need for the defense experts at trial. They served their purpose by getting the state’s experts barred.
      There are no experts for the “dueling experts” action.
      The jury can still hear testimony and argument about who was screaming. If Sybrina testifies it was Trayvon, then there will be evidence that it was Trayvon. Her testimony may be enough to foreclose a Judgement of Acquittal after the state presents its case. It shouldn’t be because her testimony is not credible, but the judge might say that’s a jury call, not the court’s call.

      • Do not underestimate the positive effect that this pre-trial wrangling over the audio experts has had on the journalists closely following the case.

        The professionalism of the MOM/West team and the quality of their experts contrasted sharply with the histrionics of BDLR and his two (questionable) experts.

        Common sense indicates that the person getting pounded is the one most likely to scream for help for 40 seconds. The lengths that the prosecution went to try to find the barest skein of “scientific” supposition to foster an opposite conclusion revealed the full extent to which this legal case lacks merit.

        [The only thing missing, perhaps, was a question that was not put to Dr. Reich as to whether, during his analysis, had he thought to put the can of Arizona watermelon juice to his ear to determine if he could develop any further utterances by either GZ or TM.]

            • Nettles ~ I don’t know why Lee Stapleton would be surprised at such weak experts chosen by the State.. The State HAS to turn over every report to the Defense in their discovery, EVEN the unfavorable reports that would be used against them by the Defense. The Defense is not bound by that rule, they turn over who they are going to use, if the Defense has an unfavorable report, they just shred it.

              imo, BDLR was reasonably sure at least one of guys would support the States theory, in essence, the State BOUGHT expensive experts to prop up their theory disregarding Dr. Nakasone.

          • ROTFL. The Orlando Sentinel is the group that found/picked Owen in the first place. And it was the Wshington Post that picked Reich. So, who is the fool for picking weak experts?

      • If sybrina testifies and Tracy doesn’t can the defense mention that fact in their closing? Like ask rhetorically why the state didn’t call tracy to identify this own sons voice, implying they didn’t call him because either he couldn’t identify the screams or that there was some other problem with the id?

        • One of the state’s motion in limine was to ensure the defense doesn’t bring to the attention of the jurors any witness that neither side calls and infer that not calling them meant something. That was granted.

    • Cboldt – I was wondering about this. Would a decision like this be made due to consultation with the jury consultant? I really didn’t think O’Mara came off all that well and developed any kind of rapport with the jury. Do you think that they feel West has better rapport with the jurors that were chosen and that he will connect with them better, so they’re using him for opening?

      • Could have come from a Hirschhorn observation and suggestion, or maybe from self-critical review. Or, could just be dividing the work without any deep rationale behind the choice. Maybe they flipped a coin!
        West did really good in the Frye argument. Maybe they figure he’s running strong, and O’Mara is (more) tired. Either one of them will be a marked contrast against Bernardo, if Bernardo opens. The state might have Guy open, too.

          • ackbarsays – Guy is easier on the eyes than BDLR & doesn’t seem as offensive to me imo, but BDLR has the lead, I fully expect BDLR to run the show & have the most face time presenting the States case.

  5. How timely, with the tweet from Channel 13 about an assault with a soda can from Channel 13 today, now come PokerfaceTodd’s video showing evidence of GZ face being hit by a can.

    • unicron makes a salient point over at CTH –

      “I still say, Owen, Primeau, Reich etc would never have issued those “findings” if the images of GZ’s injuries had come out prior to them doing so.”

    • The bruising around George’s eyes is obvious. Maybe I know this because of something that happened to me a few years ago, when I fell and hit my face on concrete. YES, I had a bruised eye the next morning!!

      If you look very closely at the pic you can see the bruises. He was hit square in the face.

  6. Well, Hornsby was right again. He said when JDN takes more time on a decision, it is usually against the state. When it is against, the defense, the decision is usually immediate (most times with notes already drawn up which she reads into the court record.) So according to Hornsby’s theory, JDN telegraphed her decision by delaying her write up.

    BTW, it seems there are a LOT more readers here from the CTH. Sundance seems all caught up in the M-DSPD controversy, which at this point is totally irrelevant to the case. Sundance just can’t let that go, along with constant criticism of MOM/West. Again, none of that does ANY good at this point. I like Nettle’s motto here: Help me or get out of my way!

    We have to stay focused on what IS happening, not what we wish would happen. Still waiting for Sundance to out the 2nd DD, tick, tock!

    • I quit following the M-DSPD controversy because I did not see the immediate relevance to George’s innocence. However, SD is on a mission and maybe that is just as important to him than the trial. Followers should be able to clearly recognize that. How they feel about his ongoing criticism of the defense is up to them but to say that it does not negatively impact George and his family and even the case itself implies that CTH has lost its razzle dazzle and is no longer the primary driving force in freeing George. One has only to notice how many have posters have been banned or made to feel unwelcome to understand that you really cannot speak your mind without concern of being unfairly criticized. There are also those who just couldn’t take it any more and fled the scene to arrive here, Dman ‘s place or Random Topics. Then there are also those who try to remain relevant at 4 places at once. Notice how Jello is versatile enough to move around. I tried that myself but water seeks its own level…. or something.

      I think we should all remember that it was SD who probably first “enlightened” most of us. Clearly he has multiple purposes for the CTH and always did before this case came onto the scene.

    • I seriously doubt he hit GZ with the can hard enough to break his nose. Those cans are super flimsy. It would be very dented and crumpled and most likely leaking. I work at a gas station and we stock those and I know from bitter and sticky experience how easily those cans break. Stacking to many of them often crumples the cans.

    • In all fairness to sundance the cth covers stories other than Zimmerman. they did before the shooting and will continue to even after the trial is over. I think the scandal having to so with the police and the baker act is very interesting and worth covering. With regards to the GZ case it is hard to know whether or not it is relevant until the info is actually released.

    • lots of ways; TrayMom’s financial interest will be brought up; TrayDad’s statement that it was NOT trayvon will be brought up; GZ’s parents will testify that it is George. The fact that TrayMom couldn’t identify trayvon on another tape will be brought up.

    • The state has always had Sybrina. The experts testifying doesn’t change that. But Sybrina and perhaps a cousin is the only ones they have. Jahvaris is on tape saying he’s not sure and Tracy has given conflicting opinions.

      The defense has GZ family, GZ neighbors, W11 thought it sounded like George, W6 thought the guy on the bottom was screaming. They have GZ telling police before he knew a recording had been made of it, that he was screaming and you have George injured and Trayvon not injured.

      The juror’s common sense will decide.

      • I wonder if Austin Brown will testify to what he originally said that it was the guy in red on the bottom screaming for help? Didn’t he talk with the police, or maybe it was a reporter, and tell them those details before he knew who it was that was shot?

        • Yes, with a reporter, and he also said it looked as though the guy was trying to get up but was not able. Did anyone ever find out who the first (other than police on the night of the shooting) talked with witnesses in the area? Shortly after the original statements to police, someone went around introducing to them a narrative of “the kid” being the one being attacked and shot, thereby causing several to make conflicting statements at some point later.

          There was also the false reporting (video of GZ with no injuries) on arrival at police station, shot in the back of the head trying to get away, laid on cold slab for three days as John Doe, never took GZ’s clothes, the gun, or any evidence the night of the report, RZsr getting “special treatment” from the police at the station, etc. There is certainly a detailed timeline somewhere to indicate first contacts with witnesses, written and audio-taped statements, details of what was seen and heard (or not, as to Cutcher), when Julison and the schemers made contact, the sworn statement made by one witness to the/an attorney for the Martin family) PI on the condition she not be exposed by name, etc.

          A lot of this information and evidence (including the corruption from Miami being related from the school area through several others, including Hurley, Carvalho, Bondi, Perez, Holder and Obama, with special access and consideration to Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, NAACP, NAN, NBPP, including the protests, riots and threats of physical harm to neighborhood and community, etc. Preserving the records and evidence of conspiratorial coercion, withholding, manipulating, manufacturing and false reporting on all levels (including Gutman and all the others at various outlets) will be helpful to GZ and entire family in malicious prosecution cases.

          Remembering Richard Jewell —- of Atlanta Olympic Park bombing fame — and just how vicious and fraudulent false reports can cause massive damages.

    • Allowing Sybrina to testify is a double-edged sword for the prosecution.

      It could open the door to the discussion of how well Sybrina knew Trayvon, did he live with her? Has she ever heard him screaming for his life. Did she not know that his voice level had dropped to post-puberty levels.

      Once, Sybrina is put on the stand, the prosecution will (no doubt successfully) object to a whole series of questions that could be put Sybrina by the defense. Some may open the door, some may not.

      Whether the defense chooses to employ this tact will depend on their assessment of how the trial is going.

      • One other consideration, she is a women and a mother with a jury of only women. MOM and West can’t be seen as brow beating her, yes I know that she has not been the greatest of moms; but if she can connect with the jury about how hard is raising a teen, bad influences, etc she can get some sympathy, enough to override everything else, doubtful.

        • The first question to Sybrina from the defense should be: “Where did Trayvon live?” I think the jury, as well as the American public, will be shocked to hear her answer if in fact he did not live with her. Second question (if she says he did not live with her): “Why not?”

          • BDLR: Objection, outside the scope, you already ruled that TM past issues are not relevant.
            Judge N.: sustained, we can not talk about anything that would put TM in a bad light.

      • I’m still confused on where Trayvon was living before he went to Sanford. Trayvon texted that his mother kicked him out because she was afraid of the trouble he kept getting into. Then you have Alicia saying on TV, and elsewhere that she raised Trayvon since he was a little kid. I believe she indicated that Trayvon was living with her until 2 weeks before he was shot. Then I read that he was living with an aunt and uncle, so the uncle could straighten him out. Didn’t one of his friends ask him what high school he was at one day?

        • pinecone – TM was living w/his Uncle, the ex marine & his aunt at the time of his death. Alicia was married to Tracy for 10 yrs. in which Alicia raised TM.

          It’s confusing because it seems Tracy is so female dependant, he just moves from one female to the next. Tracy was married to Alicia when he began his affair w/Brandi, though I don’t know if Tracy was staying there all of the time. imo, Alicia got shafted by Sybrina & Tracy. By the time Tracy files for divorce, Brandi was already pregnant. Sorry SOB imo.

          Sybrina will get to answer all those embarrassing questions at trial. I guess if the Aunt & Uncle lie, Alicia will be called to impeach them.

        • It so hard to know because this family continually lies and was not straight-forward with anything from their side. While they called for an arrest, you will note they did not call for an investigation to learn the truth. They weren’t interested in the truth. Hiring a team of civil attorneys on day 2 speaks volumes about what the family wanted. Hiding information, not cooperating and outright lying to police demonstrate to me they knew the truth and they’ve known it from the beginning.

          On March 2, 2012 the Miami Herald wrote a story on the case and quoted Ron Fulton (Sybrina’s wheel-chair bound brother) in the paper saying that Trayvon was living with him. That article is archived now. Here is the link for the archive and you can read it in the excerpt. “Miami Herald – March 2, 2012 –

          Miami teen shot dead while visiting family in Central Florida
          A Miami teenager visiting family in Central Florida is coming home in a casket. Trayvon Martin, 17, was visiting family members in Sanford when he was shot to death by a man at a convenience store on Monday night. The teen walked into the store to buy ice cream and Skittles. He had $22 in his pocket. About 100 feet from the building, Martin was confronted by an armed man who shot him dead, said his uncle Ronald Fulton, who lived with the teen.”

          Read more here: http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_multi=MH%7C&p_product=MH&p_theme=realcities2&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_site=miami&s_trackval=MH&s_search_type=keyword&p_text_search-0=monique%20AND%20o.%20AND%20madan%20AND%20trayvon%20AND%20martin&s_dispstring=monique%20o.%20madan%20trayvon%20martin%20AND%20date(all)&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no#storylink=cpy

          Tracy’s sister Ebony did a radio interview and at 2:05 mark, you hear her say that Tracy was living with her and Trayvon was living with his Uncle.

          Some of us who read the Esquire Article, in which one could think that at one time Trayvon lived with Stephen’s Mom and Dad but in light of the March 2, 2012 Miami Herald piece, I think the Uncle that Ebony referred to in the above-mentioned radio interview was Sabrina’s brother Ron, not Tracy’s brother Stephen.

          Alicia, in her interview said the last time she saw Trayvon was 3 weeks before the shooting and that her and Tracy split up 2 weeks before the incident. It’s likely when Tracy split-up with Alicia that he moved in with his sister and for reasons of going to school, Trayvon moved in with Uncle Ron. Tray texted on early Feb. 2012 that he dad was working so he had to go to Carol High that day. I suspect Ron lived in the area closest to Dr. Michael Krop.

          There is evidence (texts) that Trayvon was in Sanford on January 13, 14 and 15th. It does appear that Tracy was preparing to move to Sanford with Trayvon. Trayvon tweeted about moving with his dad and he wasn’t going to miss the teachers at Krop.

          • What were the dates of TM’s texts where he talks about his mom kicking him out? If that was closer to the time of the incident, I would have to give TM’s own words more credibility than those of all of his lying family members. Didn’t Tracy give the police Alicia’s address for TM?

            • You’ll find Tray’s texts in the 3rd Supplemental defense discovery. I recall reading in Nov. 2011 his texts says his Mom kicked him out. On December 22, 2011 he texts he is moving in with dad and Sybrina texts him he will be better off with dad. In his texts for Jan. 13,14, 15 he’s at Brandy’s house.

              Yes the address for Trayvon Martin that Tracy gave the Sanford police was the house that he shared with Alicia.

              • I wonder if there were any calls into police of suspicious activity or break-ins for Jan 13, 14, 15 in Brandy’s neighborhood.

        • not if they are going to be witnesses; they may not hear other testimony, because then they could change their own testimoney.

  7. Lots of people predicted Nelson would admit the wacko testimony of the state’s experts. WRONG! West had to scramble, but he pointed out that the state FAILED to provide any OTHER expert to state that Reich/Owens used generally accepted practices. It was not enuf for Reich/Owens to self-servingly state that there method is accept by the scientific community. The state made a BIG mistake here, and now will pay the price!

    Is it possible the JDN has been railroading this case because she realizes that state has no case. She stated that the state’s whole theory of the case is that GZ confronted Trayvon. The state;s investigator has already admitted that there is absolutely no evidence on that. Could the unthinkable happen? Would Judge Nelson actually order an acquittal after the state fails to prove its case? We can only hope!

    • No, that would be unthinkable. I’ll give you 50 to 1 odds anyway.

      The only thing that can save George from the lynch mob will be a jury of his peers. They will

  8. I’m very appreciative of Mr. West’s work in bringing the defense response to the Frye hearing. In reading the Judge’s order excluding the experts testimony, she reveals it was Dr. French who she found the most compelling.

    Mr. Mantei wanted Dr. French ignored because he had never testified in a U.S court before. I have a feeling more U.S lawyers may be contacting Mr. French when the need arises.

    The GZ case is turning out to be a world-wide effort.

      • cboldt doesn’t necessarily think that’s true. The state didn’t set the judge’s timetable. It was not their fault she delayed things so that her ruling came out after the jury was sworn. He seems to think that they might have an avenue for appeal. Not that they’ll use it, necessarily.

  9. The press is also discredited by this ruling, for prominently touting Owen and Reich as having some credibility behind the “it was Martin” conclusion.

  10. I am thrilled to have called this wrong, I just knew Judge N was going to allow Reich & Owen in! I can’t wait to hear how much $$$$$$$$$$ Reich actually got for his hallucinations, a huge waste of taxpayer’s dollars.

    KUDOS to MOM/West for their hard work, it paid off in exposing the junk science.

  11. It was very evident on Friday that Mr. West wanted this ruling badly. He tried hard to get his composites into evidence and kept pushing when the Judge pushed back. I’m very glad he got the ruling his work deserved.

      • That’s strange, because the state does allege that Zimmerman profiled Martin. “. . . he was profiled by George Zimmerman.” is right in the sworn affidavit for probable cause.
        The state also swore that Martin purchased a can of iced tea.

    • I have a problem with Stutzman saying that those screams were recorded while Zimmerman was fighting with TM. George wasn’t fighting with TM. George was trying to escape the beating he was receiving from TM. When someone says the two were fighting, it implies to me that both were throwing punches, kicks, blows or whatever.

      It would seem that the OS would want to be a little careful with their reporting of the case, as they were the ones to hire, and pay Owen to give his expert analysis, which I believe they printed way back when. I believe it was cboldt who earlier said that the OS and the WaPo were put in their place today with the judges ruling. They reported junk science as being so-called credible evidence to their readers.

  12. ROFLMBO We get in our Saturday paper, the new sales paper for Walgreens, which are printed weeks in advance (sales papers printed by a paper in Central Ar for our region) THEY HAVE ARIZONA TEA OR DRINKS 2/$1 and DUM DUM Pops 2/$4 !!! Guess this is for the TRAYBOTS! Made me laugh out loud!

  13. Please listen again to a speech you have heard before if you watched JFK. It does not matter whether you are on the side of prosecution or on the side of defense, what is important is the process, of justice and truth. Please listen and see how many elements in this speech you find applicable to the trial of George Zimmerman. It is a stark reminder of how all of us came together and have stayed together since late Feb. of 2012.

  14. All of the jurors have likely heard/seen/read something about the ‘experts’ claiming that it was TM screaming, and now those experts will be noticeably missing in action.

    And the fact that the state’s ‘experts’ are MIA will be emphasized when & if the state instead puts laypersons from TM’s family on the stand to ‘claim’ that it was TM screaming for help.

    Nelson’s own ruling that Owens’ financial incentive to testify posed a conflict of interest could also potentially be used against her and the state when they try to prevent MOM & West from making the exact same argument about Tracy and Sybrina. They have an even greater financial incentive to lie than Owens about who it was crying out on the 911 calls… x 1,000,000.

    Then we have the state trying to get George’s “I was screaming for help but no one would help me” excited utterances excluded… and despite case law that states these comments are admissible exceptions to the hearsay rule, I’m guessing Nelson will throw the state a bone and exclude them anyway.

    The whole issue of who it was screaming for help on the 911 calls may never even be addressed at trial.

    • “The whole issue of who it was screaming for help on the 911 calls may never even be addressed at trial.”

      Considering who was screaming is the most important part of the trial…I doubt it.

    • I know he has 5 depositions with the defense.

      I hope afterward, the defense goes out for a really nice meal while Bernie and the boys head back to the office to go over plan B.

    • My question over at the CTH was… how long before they turn on the state ??..thanks for the anscer..this is going to get very ugly

      • The state made a huge mistake in raising the family’s expectations back in April 2012. They have rightfully so thought the State had found something in the investigation to justify the charge. Raised expectations. Alan Derschowitz said this was going to be trouble.

        However the court and the press are dealing with facts now not spin. It will be hard to stir up anger when the truth gets told.

        • It was also a huge mistake because it puts the entire criminal justice system in a bad light, when the people entrusted to use its power with wisdom, use it for personal or political gain.
          I thought Corey was going to no bill – I’d studied the evidence. Her “performance” in April 2012 stunned me.
          And now that the sham has been extended by the court’s willful blindness, I’m disappointed in and have sound reason to be distrustful of Florida’s criminal court system.
          Just saying, it’s not just the community that was agitated by Crump, Julison and the press that ends up “disappointed,” subversion of truth hurts everybody.

        • Not sure I agree with “raising the family’s expectations”

          TrayMom and TrayDad know the truth. They know their son was out of control and almost beyond any doubt assaulted GZ.

          They also know there was money to be made.

        • Interesting article from way back then-

          http://www.examiner.com/article/should-attorney-benjamin-crump-be-disciplined-for-the-trayvon-martin-debacle-1

          Crump was responsible for the incitement in Sanford, yet called for Chief Lee to be replaced because Chief Lee was somehow causing the discord in Sanford. We all know that Crump is looking for a big payday from Sanford, if it comes from the SPD, or the Sanford City Council. He wants his payday, and that is the long and short of it.

    • I’m going to look for Robert’s written statement. I do not trust the dailer caller to report it accurately. That said, what is reported has an outstanding tone. No celebration, just glad that the jury won’t be faced with the confusion the experts would bring.

    • oh, you mean the RZ that was not going to comment anymore until after trial? We don’t need him to do that.

      Professor (and i use the word lightly) Leatherman and his followers are just going ballistic that the voodoo voice experts are excluded. That the good professor predicted the testimony would be admitted shows the craziness of the opposition. The state and the crazies are starting to come loose at the seams!

      • Comment at OS article:

        Leon Barnes at 5:59 PM June 22, 2013

        devastating blow when you got an all white womens jury one non white! everybody in america knows white women blame black males for every crime that they committ its a fact! susan smith? etc so go to hell miss piggy nelson!

        • So what happened to the theory that an all women jury would not be beat up on because of their gender. Wasn’t the spokesperson for the Black Panthers, who I believe appeared with them in Fla. a woman? I promise that gender has no impact at all whatsoever on the black community. The PJ E81 I think was her number, was a white woman. She knew that she was going to have a target on her back if George was acquitted. I really don’t believe that the current female jurors have a full grasp of what may happen to them, and their family members, if they acquit George. The fact that the judge is not willing to seal their identities for a long period of time will not be helpful. See, even Nelson who has been pro-state for a long time is being called miss piggy. Many in the black community don’t care at all about gender, they only care about skin color.

      • Didn’t someone say that the Martin family was not going to comment until the verdict was read also beak their promise? Crump just can’t help himself, he is hitting the Al Sharpton show hard and heavy. So does that mean that if Tracy did an interview earlier, and they play it when the trial is going on, that Tracy really didn’t get his word out?

  15. The press is having a hard time letting go of “teh narrative.”

    Zimmerman Judge Bars Testimony on Screams – NYT – Cara Buckley

    The screams are clearly coming from a distraught male, whose repeated cries for help end abruptly with a gunshot. What is not clear from a recording of a 911 call, however, is the identity of the screamer: George Zimmerman, the volunteer community watchman, or Trayvon Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old he killed that night.

    The article doesn’t convey the total demolition of state expert opinions wrought by defense experts, and duly noted by the court.

    • Didn’t the NYT earlier have an article about them being so wrong on their Trayvon Martin reporting?

      What is obviously happening with the newspapers/sites is that they are including one author is who pro-whatever the issue, and then anti-whatever the issue. Facts never enter their lexicon, and it is only opinion that is printed. There are no more journalists that search for the facts, and then print the story based on those facts. Everyone’s opinion is now the major breaking news, devoid of any research into those issues.

      • That NYT article that was described in a Reason blog article as a “walk back” on NYT’s position on SYG laws, and on the fact that the press conflates immunity, duty to retreat, and justified use of force. I thought the blog article was weak. It was correct on criticism of the press, but I don’t see any “walk back” in the NYT article.

  16. Re Sybrina, if I have my timeline correct-
    Sybrina, so sure it was Trayvon screaming, ran from the room crying.
    Later, on tv, she stated it was an accident. (Crump nearly stroked and she later tried walking that back).
    Ok, if my son were killed, possibly murdered, and I waslayed a tape of screaming from the incident, and was certain it was my son screaming, I’d be just as sure it was murder. The word “accident” would never, ever be used by me to describe the situation…ever!
    Sybrina knew darn well that wasn’t Trayvon screaming. And she knew darn well Trayvon beat the crap out of someone who shot him in self defense. She knew it then and she knows it now. But visions of money filled trash cans dance in her head!

    • Excellent point! I wish the defense had a library of all those video interviews made by the Scheme Team. Then during trial, at any time, they could click on their computer and bring up clips from those videos. The “accident” clip would be a great one to use. You could also do a whole montage video spelling out the story – including pictures from the whole thrash can tour. I would also include info on the whole TM merchandizing business. Who in their time of grief thinks to run out and trademark their son’s name for profit?

    • CCG –

      I don’t know what Sybrina was thinking. I don’t know her state of mind at that point in time nor later.

      I can make an assessment based on her apparent beliefs as divined from her public appearances. Those beliefs clash with the self-portrait that TM himself projected in the social media. Those beliefs also clash with a portrait that has emerged from TM’s latter experiences in school.

      Sybrina, and Tracy for that matter, have been thrust into a situation that they did not seek. The death of their son has been hijacked by political forces to promote political goals that extend far beyond a personal tragedy.

      Many parents, in a situation where their youngster is growing into a turbulent adolescence, cling to easier and warmer memories, and fall prey to an all too easy human failing of denial.

      I do not and cannot know darn well exactly what Sybrina knows darn well.

      The loss of a son, even a troubled one, leaves a big hole in the hearts of the parents. It is a hole that visions of trash cans cannot fill. I suspect that Sybrina and Tracy would give up a heck of a lot just to have Trayvon back.

      The facts and the law back GZ in this case, in a case that is a human tragedy.

      But for many Americans with just a peripheral knowledge of the case, the fact that an armed person shot an unarmed person is not justifiable under any circumstances. And that is a prime reason why it is so difficult for the facts of this case to pierce the fog of misunderstandings that still surround it.

  17. I want to thank sundance for acknowledging my revelation of the website “I don’t need no stinkin’ website, which is owned and controlled by LetJusticePrevail last night. I was beat about the head for disclosing that fact. I specifically brought up the fact that is a form of computer hacking. What information does a hacker have access to when they “scrape” a website? Can they capture my email address, or anything else I may have written about myself when I joined wordpress. I feel exonerated. Thank you sundance, even though it would be against your constitution to ever credit me with much of anything. No problem, I don’t post what I do for acceptance, or acknowledgement of what I say, or may have uncovered.

    Jordan, I have a message for you personally. You are very quick to slam me, again and again, as some sort of evil person, who has no other objective than to personally, and with gusto, anyone who posts there ideas. You jump into every fray as the negotiator of the peace, when more often than not, those waring parties have the ability to work it out between themselves. It happens time and time again, without any referee by the way. I ask very respectfully that you please stop slamming me every chance you get, of course with your inclusion of the lipstick you try to put on me the pig before doing so. Of all the people here, I would think that you would have a big problem, idelogically, with anyone “scraping” any site for their intended clients, NO? Did you even read the “I don’t need no stinkin’ website” before you made you comments knowcking me? I don’t think you did.

    Here is the quote from the CTH regarding them being “scraped.”

    “The “scraping” of the Tree House as a prosecution resource is, as it has been for the past year, a concern before the keystrokes.”

    Again sundance, no acknowledgement necessary, but thank you for giving some credence to me post of last night claiming computer hacking. That is exactly what it is. If you didn’t read the site I linked to, you have no clue of what this person is doing. Again, Jordan, do you have no problem with someone possible getting into your private information? Not like you to support that.

    • It’s been my experience, Sundance has a habit of accusing others with nothing to corroborate it with.

      You’ll recall he accused Mr. O’Mara of being the mastermind behind the HOA settlement the Martins got. He accused O’Mara of wanting the family to have that money.

      He has banned a number of voices at his blog for his perceived injustices (you and I among them).

      He is the last person I’d listen to unless and until I saw some proof. Not listing a website doesn’t make one a scraper. I’ve spent much of today researching what that is and how I can protect the readers here. The comments are public but the email address and the IP addresses they emit from give data about the commentators here. I’m confident wordpress has given admins. the barrier needed to protect the info. If a scraper does get it then someone gets your email address. Again I say so what. Most of us registered with an email we could shut down in a minute if it started getting spammed to much and open another one.

      I note Sundance has a habit of not telling his readers where the information he posts comes from. It doesn’t surprise me in the least and I’m sure you weren’t surprised to read about scraping there after your post. He seems quite interested in what you have to say. I first noted that at Diwataman’s blog.

      Again, accusing someone without solid evidence is wrong. Sundance has a habit of it, I hope you don’t pick that habit up too.

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