Home » Uncategorized » July 10, 2013

July 10, 2013


The judge held the defense team to a June 10, 2013 trial date.  I expect her to hold the state to ask the jury to consider a 2nd degree murder charge and only a second degree murder charge.

Anyone who wants to share something privately, email me at nettles@bell.net

Links to Live Streams (Thanks Carole):

WAT~ http://wildabouttrial.com/trial_videos/watch-the-george-zimmerman-hearing-live/

Local WFTV~ http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream//

Click Orlando~ http://www.clickorlando.com/news/-/1637132/19533480/-/fm5b93z/-/index.html


182 thoughts on “July 10, 2013

    • I think that Dershowitz is wrong on a number of levels. If he had bothered comparing the voices on the NEN tape and the other tape, he should have been able to come to a conclusion that the voices were the same.

      Second: who threw the first punch? I think that the evidence tells the story and only TM had evidence that he threw punches.

      Third: the hearsay witness should have been irrelevant because of the possibility of subornation of perjury aka Crump told her what to say.

    • freegz – I agree with Dershowitz’s opinion as well as many local & National legal analyst agree with him on his opinion. I do not agree w/his opinion of Sybrina/Tracy being fine people, but in AD’s defense, I doubt he has bothered with the drama promoted by the Scheme Team & the lies that have been told by all. Dershowitz focus is the law.

  1. Question re; admissibility of the animation

    How is this really any different than the crime scene reenactment CAD software that is frequently used in trials?

    On what grounds is the state objecting?

  2. A certain website that likes to criticize MOM for putting the effort to free GZ over an effort to expose the BGI is getting the tables turned on it and it’s kind of funny. That site likes to intimate it has important info but it has to carefully consider whether to expose it. Today they were saying if they expose this info, they may lose the website, be forced to take it down. People are saying, but isn’t exposing the truth more important? But somehow keeping a website is very important, attorneys making sure to use all their efforts to free GZ – not so much lol

    • Sometimes being in a hard position helps us to be more understanding of others. However, I have to admit to being disappointed with the possibility they won’t be calling Crump to the stand. If the legal analyst on some of the news channel are saying there’s enough for manslaughter, it worries me what the jury might be thinking.

      • those analysts are dreaming. There is not enough for manslaughter except in an alternate universe. If George is convicted of even manslaughter there is sufficient grounds for the verdict to be appealed due to reversible errors… and those errors are mounting up every day.

        • Aussie ~ actually, the local legal analyst & National Legal Analyst, are split on a verdict of manslaughter & some say the evidence is there to prove it. Since it is commented on a lot, Hornsby wrote a BLOG piece on the problems: No one predicts a Murder 2 conviction since it wasn’t proven by the State.

          This article by Hornsby explains manslaughter:.

          George Zimmerman’s 10-20-Life Problem


          imo, since Judge N didn’t DROP the Murder 2 charge, I fear some on the jury may want a “compromise verdict.” I had rationalized that perhaps w/a choice of manslaughter or some lesser includeds, GZ had a much better chance of walking free. I remain fearful as to what could happen, will the jury want to “split the baby?”

          We have so much more information that the jury has, but, imo, not only should there never have been charges, but the State has NOT proven their case “beyond a reasonable doubt.” The Defense, imo, have proven self defense.

    • ROFL yes I read all about it 🙂

      It is just more sillineness. Most of the predictions from that site have not come true. I am not belittling the efforts to expose the BGI, but George’s freedom comes first.

    • If you are talking about the treehouse, people who have read there for any length of time have to recognize the pattern by now. Sundance strung us along with information that he had that MOM was a corrupt lawyer, actually working against George. He hinted at proving that if the decision to depose Crump wasn’t given by the court. The proof never came.

      He wrote he knew for sure about the 2 DDs. He knew who the March 19th one was and didn’t know who the April 2nd one was. Last I heard, he was going to reveal what evidence he had on the account but proof never came.

      We read that MOM instigated and had the final word in the HOA settlement the Martin family got. No proof ever came.

      He wrote the FOIA stuff he requested was going to make all the difference in this case, asked for donations (at a time GZ was asking for donations for his defense) and I haven’t heard if he ever got them. If he did, the news that made the difference in the case escaped me.

      I think the George Zimmerman case has been a lucrative one for the treehouse. Click here for more information, gets him paid.

      I saw Global Grind running articles that were crap to get like-minded people to come to the site and get those much wanted clicks and views for advertisers. I think the Treehouse may be running the same type of thing. No doubt about it the contributors there have shared some great information on the case but the sunset on the criminal case is exposing an agenda at the treehouse. He just keeps stringing people along with promises and no proof.

    • Skolnik, Trent, and Leatherman are all cut from the same cloth… they all know they will fade into obscurity when this trial is over

      They’ve latched on to the casket and are holding on for dear life to keep themselves in the public eye.

  3. Unless I misheard, the black female neighbor of George who testified by Skype said it was “a white man’s voice”. I haven’t heard any commentator mention it. I thought the same thing when I heard the screams – it wasn’t a deep enough voice for most (not all) black people.

    • Thank you and that sucks. I sit here extremely angry at the abuse of power I am witnessing. The discovery phase of this process left no doubt, the state did not do a proper investigation and had they, someone may have had the courage to tell the Martin family the fatal error in judgement their son showed that night.

      To hear yesterday on so many different news channels that prosecutors often over-charge in hopes of maybe getting a plea or failing that a jury to render a compromise verdict is abusive.

      That probable cause affidavit is a disgrace and the state should be held to the standard to prove their second degree charge or let the man alone.

    • Jeralyn just did a long post on the subject, Hornsby pointed out the Lumarque case on June 8, it was pointed out on CTH by John Galt. More or less well known that Nelson is citing inapplicable case law on the authentication point.
      It will be interesting to see if she is confronted with case law, and if so, how she reacts. She has, in the past, denied counsel the right to present case law on the basis that they had their chance to do so and did not take it.
      If you look up “reversible error” in a Florida Law Dictionary, you’ll find a picture of Judge Debra S. Nelson.

    • Not me. Those are over. Nelson will rule on authentication, then admissibility of the texts on the phone. She will also rule on the animations. Then she’ll hear argument about Donnelly’s sequestration violation – I expect that will be mild mannered, at least from the defense side. Then the defense will call a witness. Self-defense law expert Root can testify, no issues precluding him taking the stand. The other two experts (Schumaker on the animation, Connor on the phone messages) are up in the air until Nelson renders her decisions.

    • ROTFL. I was thinking along those lines myself. The defense has plenty of witnesses they can call. So, line ’em up and start calling.
      The flip side is that getting under the judge’s skin (for fun) probably gets under the jurors’ skin too.
      Take the rulings, hget on with the show. I see hung jury at worst, one holdout for Martin. Most likely an acquittal. That’s even if his phone texts don’t come in. I don’t think the animation is persuasive. The case won’t turn on that.

      • See…my line of thinking about the animation….and the defense wants that in, otherwise they would not have proffered and spent time trying to get it is to avoid GZ from testifying. The State knows this. The State is not trying to keep it out per se, they are arguing that who is going to testify to what has been IN TRIAL in front of jury. State is attempting to force GZ on the stand.

  4. Sheaffer said “Judge N has denied GZ due process by denying Connor to testify, appealable issue if there is a conviction.”

  5. Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV:

    (1) We’ve been told that defense witness John Donnelly was not subpoenaed until 8 days after he was in court for trial. He 1/2 #Zimmermanon9

    (2) The judge is standing by ruling not to allow Martin’s texts about fighting in and will not allow the defense to enter its 1/2 #Zimmermanon9

  6. Denial of Fight Video:

    Kathi Belich WFTV:

    Could be reversed on appeal if #Zimmermanon9 is convicted and there could be a second trial. It’s the theory of defense.

    a night mare to even consider

    • If Zimmerman is convicted it could be reversed, but does he still have to spend time in jail while he waits for the reversal?

      • rejoicenhim – IANAL, hopefully cboldt, our friend & lawyer stops in & clears many legal things up for us. I am speculating since there would be a conviction, it has to go through the appeal process. The APPEAL can be granted or denied. I assume he would go to jail UNTIL the DCA made a decision if he got a new trial r not..

        I don’t know if you are aware, but there was a self defense case/trial in which Judge N was appealed & it was granted to the Defense, the defendant gets a new trial. (granted recently, May 30 ish, 2013.)

      • He’s not in jail now. He’d remain free on bail, and I’m sure O’Mara would move for eliminating some restrictions.

  7. Omgoodness! Bdlr is desperate bringing up the F#P and A*H comments. I wish these were objectionable actions.

  8. REFERRING to Bonaparte’s testimony yesterday:

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 20h

    Bonaparte did not seem happy about testifying. He told me back then the city was worried about being sued for false arrest. #Zimmermanon9
    Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV

    Root said there are a lot if things that Rachel Jeantel said that don’t line up with the timeline. #Zimmermanon9

  9. LOL. Bernardo shut down Guy with a sidebar request. Guy was asking about Martin’s fitness, and the witness said, “We’ll, I’ve read in the press ….”

    • cboldt – I am watching WFTV, Bill Sheaffer said as their camera panned to the States table, BDLR was in John Guy’s face, clearly unhappy. Sheaffer too stated when Guy ask “if you saw a gun, wouldn’t you yell,” Root responded, “no, I’d go for the gun.” Clearly, Guy had lingered too long basking in the lens of the camera in which he accused others of doing.. Too Sheaffer added that on re-direct, MOM had just begun & was gaining ground.

      imo, any gains made by the State will be shredded by MOM after lunch, the State is clearly out lawyered, the Defense continues to clean their clock.

      It has not been proven whether BDLR can flap his arms from a seated position because there may not be enough room, my bet is that he’ll try, it’s BDLR’s testy impulse control that exposes him everytime. It was in fact BDLR that made the biggest mistake early on in this case HELPING GZ to testify without taking the stand when BDLR presented GZ’s videos of his explanation of what happened & the re-enactment. imo, a classless puerile blowhard that needs to retire as apparently, his 28 yrs. of experience he brags about are projecting his inability to have foresight or forethought on the damage he has done with his own witness.

      • Oh my Root has done a great job for the defense. He stated the obvious “I would go for the gun” and that is exactly what that thug did on George.

  10. This could be the last witness for the defense.

    Why didn’t Robert Sr. testify, did I miss it somehow? If he didn’t was it because the State would dig into his writing a book & RZ Jr be questioned by the State as to how many copies sold and how much money he expected to make just as we saw of Osterman?

    Anticipated the toxicology report is entered as evidence & the THC level would be mentioned by MOM in the closing, that way the State couldn’t water it down. I assume the State could call a rebuttal witness to state differently, but the Defense could call an expert during surrebuttal.

  11. This makes me furious w/Judge N. She pressing GZ for an answer if “he is going to testify,” even though West tries to interject the Defense hasn’t rested. Judge N does have the right to ask GZ, BUT, imo, what difference does it make sinse the Defense hasn’t rested their case? GZ is entitled to MORE time to decide, at least until the last witness.

    More bullchit rushing by Judge N about her freaking schedule, which imo, is not important but obviously important in her mind.

      • Nettles – it is GZ’s legal right and his decision alone if he testifies, The problem I was pointing out was what if GZ changed his mind between the time Judge N was pressing him for his answer and when the defense rest its case. If premeditation can be formed in the blink of an eye, couldn’t GZ change his mind about testifying?

        It would be disastrous if GZ testified imo. GZ did the Sean Hannity interview without the support of his attorney’s, I hope he doesn’t demand to testify.

  12. In the case of Trayvon Martin ~
    Want to know what really happened?

    I know exactly what happened that night because I have been paying attention to the liberal media!

    9-year old Trayvon Martin was on his way home from choir practice and delivering hot meals to the elderly.

    He stopped to hold umbrellas for a Girl Scout Troop which was raising money for quadriplegic AIDS victims in Africa. After he helped the Girl Scouts, he then delivered 10 Golden Retriever puppies which were breach birth.

    That’s when George Zimmerman pulled up in his Hummer, on his way home from a White Hispanic KKK meeting. High on meth and shouting racist slogans, GZ saw TM and opened up with his twin roof-mounted 50 caliber machine guns.

    TM saved all the Girl Scouts and then went back to save the Golden Retriever puppies.

    GZ ran out of ammunition so he unholstered two Desert Eagle .44 magnum pistols and started firing at the puppies and TM.

    That’s when TM was hit in the back by 32 rounds of hollow-point, teflon-coated & explosive ammunition.

    With his last breaths, TM prayed for GZ and forgave him.

    Then GZ called his cop buddies who were at the KKK rally. They cleaned up the site and made the Girl Scouts and Golden Retrievers “disappear” in the Everglades so there would be no witnesses. They washed the blood from GZ’s jowls after he gnawed on TM’s still beating heart.

    So there ya have it…straight from NON BIASED liberal media………..

  13. Wow… this is outrageous! I’m glad West stood up and objected to the questioning of Zimmerman (seemed under pressure) of whether or not George will testify by Judge Nelson. I hope Zimmerman chooses not to testify.

  14. Will George Zimmerman defy his lawyers and testify? Judge tells him he has the option to take the stand and sternly overrules defense’s objections

    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    In the article, a picture of West looking like his head would explode. imo, GZ seemed sluggish or confused when he replied. It would seem though it is GZ’s right to make this decision, he would have an idea if he would testify. Clearly West 7 MOM both acted concerned.

    • I know he must be feeling he could convince the jury of his innocence, but the State would just further twist anything into an “inconsistent statement” and attempt to make him look like he’s dishonest. I’m so glad he chose to not testify.

  15. It sounds like the State will put on a rebuttal which may give the Defense an opportunity, however small, to bring in the text msgs. I know this is highly unlikely.

    • Texts are ruled inadmissible due to being hearsay, and not within a hearsay exception. The judge has also ruled that denying this evidence to defendant does not compromise his 6th amendment right to a fair trial and cross examination.

  16. I’m very happy that O’Mara and West were able to convince GZ that he should not take the stand. Back in one of the first hearings, when he insisted that he wanted to get up there and appologize to the Martin family, that went over very very badly. While it is GZ’s choice to make, it almost seems at times that he thinks he has the ability to convince people of things that don’t want convincing. He also tried calling Angela Corey a few days before he was arrested. His decision to do the Hannity interviews was also a terrible mistake.

    George, with all due respect, STFU and listen to your attorneys. You are not capable, versed, hardened, or experienced enough to make more foolish decisions that get you in even more trouble. Please take that as advice from someone who wants to see you walk free.

  17. The state’s first rebuttal witness is Pollack who owns the gym where GZ went. From what I understand that is not a proper rebuttal tactic. The state had the opportunity to impeach this witness with his website advertising during their cross exam when he was called as a defense witness. This is very similar to waiting overnight to object to Serino’s testimony that he believed GZ.

    So now that we know it is Erick Holder’s DOJ who is in charge of this railroading, will they also intimidate and compell the DCA to not overturn a possible conviction?

    I am very uncomfortable that Nelson has sent these jurors on all kinds of long lunches to restaurants, and possibly even to Disneyland. Who is watching the watchers?

    • I can’t believe the stupidity of this witness to post this on his website when George is fighting for his freedom.

      • Sad that everybody wants to make a buck off the case. I guess they will produce T-shirts now saying “GZ trained at Kokapelli Gym.” What’s the freaking rush to make a buck, I agree, GZ is fighting for his freedom.

  18. From what I understand it was the Daily Mail, a UK news source, that broke the story that the DOJ is promoting rallies, riots and mayhem against GZ. The Judicial Watch website has been around for a long time. Why didn’t anyone here in this country pick up on the work they have been doing on this case since March 2012? Even if JW just got the information via FOIA requests, why didn’t anyone here in this country run with it?

    • Because the American media is to embedded with the WH. The ties from the WH to major Media outlets is long, and mostly the decision makers. No story is publish unless the editors say so, and we have seen evidence of that for years now.

      • Bori, I am not talking about the MSM. They will never cover that story ever. The story is now being picked up by several websites like PJMedia, Drudge and others. They are the ones I am referring to.

        • I understand, I was referring to the Daily Mail breaking some news stories that the MSM will not cover, Benghazi, NSA, and others that were not covered by MSM. PJ media and others are covering them but MSM ignored them.

  19. pinecone – thanks for the information, I’m overwhelmed with all the information today & trying to keep up with the trial. BUT, I will read everything on this information this evening, very interesting.

    This is the link to the article you referred to:

    Revealed: How taxpayers paid for Justice Department unit to ‘support protests after killing of Trayvon Martin’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359517/Documents-Little-known-Justice-Department-unit-provided-support-protest-deployment-Florida-initial-Trayvon-Martin-unrest.html#ixzz2Yfz4zlTn

  20. One of the looniest Trayvon Worshippers involved with dothprotest hate blog as well as a leatherhead regular Becca Hennesy aka Tracy Rogers has seriously filed criminal “harassment” charges for our support for George Zimmerman and has managed to subpoena mine and several other Zimmerman supporters facebook records. I am totally deadnuts serious!

  21. Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV

    Manslaughter charges will be argued tomorrow morning. Prosecution wants jurors to listen to manslaugher and assault charges. #ZimmermanOn9

  22. Interview w/Bill Lee

    It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman’s Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a “capias request” to the state’s attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a “justifiable homicide,” issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.



  23. I’m hearing that the state has asked Nelson to include Manslaughter as an option for the jury.

    Beep, beep, beep to all the legal begle talking heads obviously guessing whether it was automatically included as an option, you were not quite accurate. That is why I resist taking as gospel anything the talking head attorney’s have to say. They have been wrong many more times than once.

    I don’t have to wait to hear her decision tomorrow morning. It will be added no question. GZ is going to jail come hell or high water.

    • It is a lesser included but the distinction is the type of Manslaughter, for instance negligent Manslaughter should not be included as they were not part of the State’s case. That is why I believe MOM will argue tomorrow that Negligent Manslaughter should be excluded as a potential instruction.

      • Sorry Bori, I am going to have to disagree. From what I’m reading the judge has wide latitude in what charge options go to the jury. Nelson was recently overturned by the DCA because she refused to include self defense as an option. The defendant in that case got a new trial. O’Mara wants the jury to get two options, Murder 2 or Self Defense. That indicates to me that the options are based on a case by case basis depending on what the judge decides she wants on that option document.

        • That indicates to me that the options are based on a case by case basis depending on what the judge decides she wants on that option document.

          If Zimmerman is convicted on a lesser-included culpable negligence manslaughter charge, it will be reversible error as a violation of Zimmerman’s constitutional right to due process, since he was not afforded the opportunity to defend himself against a culpable negligence charge at trial.

          • Same with the aggravated assault. But there is a manslaughter variant that is necessarily included under murder 2, and from the precedents that I have read, it is mandatory the jury be given necessarily lesser included charges.

              • I’m sure the state’s proposed instruction is detailed, the parties were reviewing the written pages of proposed instructions, in court. The court has not made any of that material public, so I can’t tell you what, exactly, the state is arguing for.

            • cboldt – from what I am reading, Manslaughter by Intentional Act (Voluntary Manslaughter) would be the Manslaughter charge that would be charged & the state will ask for. It is unfortunate that Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence won’t be considered because it doesn’t apply to this case but it’s usually a 60 day sentence.

              Judge Alex, legal analyst, Miami Judge said earlier in the week that “GZ could be convicted of MIA, & it has almost the same sentence as 2nd degree murder.” Judge Alex too said “this case should have never been tried,” but we are where we are. That scares the hell out of me. Dan Abrahams, ABC legal analyst stated “he didn’t think the State could prove it” but he is in the minority of legal analyst that have share that opinion.

              • I think you have your Culpable Negligence stuff conflated with manslaughter. There is such a thing as manslaughter by culpable negligence. It carries a hell of a lot more than 60 days.
                There is also plain old culpable negligence. If that act EXPOSES somebody to a risk of injury, the penalty is 60 days. But, if the act of culpable negligence actually causes injury (which is less than causing death), the penalty is a year.
                The Gibbs case is instructive. If you aren’t a lawyer, its facts and outcome are hard to untangle (might even be hard for a lawyer). Gibbs was convicted on retrial, was convicted. She did use force. If she got 60 days, it was because the jury decided the use of force did not cause injury. The lady died half an hour after Gibbs shoved her, of a heart attack. The jury could not have concluded the shove caused the heart attack, because if they did, then Gibbs was guilty of manslaughter.

            • Same with the aggravated assault. But there is a manslaughter variant that is necessarily included under murder 2, and from the precedents that I have read, it is mandatory the jury be given necessarily lesser included charges.

              I get Manslaughter by act or procurement being included as lesser charges. That makes sense, since that charge is essentially second-degree murder, without the element of depraved mind (depraved indifference for human life).

              What I don’t understand is how aggravated assault can be included, when by definition it is an assault with a weapon without intent to kill, but Zimmerman’s only “assault” of Martin was via gun shot – and under Florida law, a gun is inherently considered deadly force. So, it doesn’t seem to me that aggravated assault should even be an option, when the alleged act was committed with deadly force.

              • Chip, I agree with your comment. Remember when many stated “there should be no charges, OR Manslaughter should have been charged, NOT the overcharging of Murder 2 that Corey is known for?”

                I am irked that Murder 2 isn’t coming off the verdict ballot, but with 2 options for conviction being given the jury, sometimes a jury is hell bent on convicting on something. I hope GZ walks away from this nightmare but there are so many unknown variables at play.

              • I see no way for aggravated assault to be included. There is no claim or evidence that Zimmerman threatened Martin with force, and assault is the act of threatening.

              • The gunshot isn’t assault any more. It is at least attempted aggravated battery.
                Assault is a threat of unlawful force, accompanied by apparant ability to carry out the threat.
                Battery or attempted battery is executing the threat, or (no threat needed to commit battery) using unlawful force.

          • Thank you Chip. I’ve been reading that the PCA didn’t include any options for lesser charges that the defense could have argued against had they known it would be an option for the jury. Having said that, I’m not confident that the prosecution, or the judge, have had any concern for George’s due process rights throughout the entire process. Not being an attorney, I have read over and over again, many times by your comments, that reversible error has been introduced again and again.

            Do you think the DOJ will have any influence over the DCA, or even the Fla. SC?

          • Chip – it’s always good to read your comments. I wish the “culpable negligence” act did apply, it would be 60 days in jail as OPPOSED to the severe punishment of the other 2 manslaughter charges.

            From my understanding, that is not an option in this case.

      • boricuafudd – you’re right. Hornsby listed the lesser included in his BLAWG awhile back.

        Based on the schedule of applicable lesser offenses found in the Standard Jury Instructions for Second Degree Murder and the language found with the formal charging document filed against George Zimmerman, the likely lesser offenses applicable to George Zimmerman are:

        Third Degree Felony Murder;
        Aggravated Battery;
        Aggravated Assault;
        Felony Battery;
        Culpable Negligence (Argument can be made not applicable);
        Battery; and

        As a side note, traditional manslaughter can be alleged in one of three different ways:

        Manslaughter by Intentional Act (Voluntary Manslaughter);
        Manslaughter by Procurement (Voluntary Manslaughter); and
        Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence (Involuntary Manslaughter).

        And while traditional Manslaughter is a Category One lesser included offense for Second Degree Murder (meaning it must be given as a lesser offense if requested), there is case law that suggests only Manslaughter by Act (Voluntary Manslaughter) can be given to the jury to consider as a lesser offense

        • (meaning it must be given as a lesser offense if requested),

          Thank you very much for including that it “must be requested.” And now the state is requesting it. You just made my point for me better than I have.

            • imo, the legal argument tomorrow will be which of the 3 Manslaughter possibilities apply in this case, the State will argue for what they want.

              Manslaughter is a lesser included, but as has been stated many times, it carries 20 yrs. to life as punishment. Judge N wouldn’t give GZ a break if her life depended on it, she’d give him the maximum which would be at her discretion & that’s 20 yrs. or longer..

              This isn’t a surprise to the Defense, they knew it would be requested.

        • See State v. Wimberly, 498 So.2d 929 (Fla. 1986) for the proposition that no request is required, and that the trial court doesn’t have discretion.

          A “necessarily lesser included offense” is, as the name implies, a lesser offense that is always included in the major offense. The trial judge has no discretion in whether to instruct the jury on a necessarily lesser included offense. Once the judge determines that the offense is a necessarily lesser included offense, an instruction must be given.

          The cheat sheet for jury instructions lists the necessary lesser included offenses, so the judges don’t have an excuse that “they didn’t know,” or “they needed a request from a party to the action.”

          • cboldt – is that “cheat sheet” what the defense & the state were both doing in reviewing the documents, checking off what they wanted included on the jury instructions? I assume they would include the list Hornsby made.

            You have probably already read this, but sharing in case you haven’t. The Traybots were crazy for awhile claiming GZ could be charged for using a gun on a minor, blah, blah, blah, but Hornsby ran the rumors BACK to Natty Jack giving irresponsible legal advice.


            • The cheat sheet is the state’s standard jury instruction book for all crimes.
              I’ve been referring to this one: onlinejurryinstructions.pdf
              That book isn’t comprehensive. O’Mara brought up the Gibbs case, which describes a requested clarification so the jurors would not think mooning and racial insults were acts of provocation.
              What the state, defense and judge were reviewing today was a draft proposed set of instructions for this case. I think the draft originated with the state. The draft was probably at least 95%, and probably 100% content pulled word for word out of the standard jury instruction book.
              The state had one proposed special instruction, I don’t have a clue what that was.

    • The “on most days” is bothersome to me. He once again has kicked the can down the road when he said that he left it up to the local prosecutor. The Chief of Police should be firm and resolute with his decisions, no? It was his department that did the original investigation. I go with those that have felt for a long time that his pension was more important than seeking equal justice. He and Serino sat together and said that everything GZ said was adding up to self-defense. With wimps like this, who obviously care more about their future financial position, rather than equal justice, he becomes a part of the problem rather than a solution with conviction and a firm backbone.

          • Roughly, no bad feelings about doing the right thing. Sometimes the fact that the city wrongfully fired him stings, but most days it doesn’t. CNN tied the two together because Lee said he’d probably still have his (childhood dream) job of Chief of SPD if he had done the wrong thing and arrested Zimmerman.

            • Thank you, that is a very important distinction. I should have been far better at detecting that anything Communist News Network would say would be an outright lie. Thank you for posting what was really said. I appreciate it.

  24. My heart was in my throat today waiting to learn George’s decision on testifying. I admit it. I threatened him on facebook. If he testified I threatened to nag the hell out of him every chance I got.

    George you made the right call. I’m feeling very good about your chances to get out from this charge and I look forward to hearing your story after you walk out of court without the bracelet.

  25. I wanted Crump bad. I wanted him to be exposed. And now don’t forget the Motion for Sanctions v. BDLR for hiding evidence and perhaps they could supplement that with the recent theory (from CTH) that not only did they hide it but they tried to destory evidence. IF they do not have that motion granted, I would send that to the DCA too. Let them read that thing and look defense in the face and say sanctions and judicial review are not in order. Then let the chips fall where they may. I WANT CRUMP.

    • Nelson scored a twofer with her denial of phone evidence. The Motion for Sanctions is moot – no prejudice. Double moot if Zimmerman is acquitted.
      What will be most telling is how agressively Zimmerman goes after Corey and the state for federal civil rights violations, as well as how many press organs are suid for defamation. Those suits are where Crump is exposed.

      • I agree. This trial is not where Crump needs to be exposed as much as we are all aware of his influence and intimidation that has been apparent. I’m not sure that many have the understanding that you win wars one battle at a time. Choose your battles wisely so that you can win the war is lost on so many that want immediate vengence. I’ve long held the position that the defense team going on an all out war against the MDSPD or even the DOJ would do nothing to further the battle against those that are much much bigger than O’Mara and West. Their job is to try to get George acquitted first and foremost, mistakes and all.

      • cboldt – are you sure Corey/BDLR can be sued? In the Duke Lacrosse case, the players/their family/Coach sued Duke University in Federal Court BECAUSE they couldn’t sue Nifong & they sued on Civil Rights violations. Duke Lacrosse players were awarded millions because they sued Duke University in their case, Duke had deep pockets & wanted the scandal out of the news, it was hindering their donations from alumni.

        Too, aren’t civil rights violations Federal? I want to see them punished, I just don’t know how they can be made accountable or who would investigate. The whole bunch is corrupt, the DOJ, etc., they couldn’t investigate themselves it seems.

        I’ve googled complaints on Corey many times, I have failed t see any lawsuits against the liars but endless disgruntled families of defendants sharing their nightmares & there is a PETITION to sign to be sent to the Fla. Bar as a complaint but I didn’t see any documented lawsuits.

        • I think prosecutors have more immunity than police officers do, but not as much as judges do.
          “A federal judge in 2011 ruled that the civil lawsuit could proceed against Nifong, including claims of “malicious prosecution” and “fabrication of false evidence”.”

  26. “This verdict is going to set a precedent one way or the other. It’s going to say whether anybody who kills an unarmed child will be held accountable, or you can kill certain unarmed teenage children from certain ethnicities and not be held accountable. A precedent is going to be set one way or the other.”

    Didn’t Crump get the memo from Parks that this is not about race? Apparently this acquittal is going to set a precedent that means you can just go around and slaughter black kids without being held accountable. Neat! Thanks Crump!

    • Crump can’t change his spots, he is what he is a black civil rights lawyer whose lenses only see black and white. There is not use trying to be nice with them because the always return to the same race meme.

    • That was Crump’s call to the racial activists in the black community. He knows he has the DOJ sitting on his shoulder.

      Many have pointed out today that the video released by the Broward police chief was actually a call to the black activists to congregate in Fla. I’ve read that the New Black Panthers are bussing in the mobs. Ceicle Smith, the new Sanford police chief welcomed everyone who wants to use their voices.

      No matter what happens with the verdict, the mobs are ready to rally. Russell Simmons from Global Grind fame said that whatever the verdict, GZ will get his due.

    • It’s hard for me to believe she was a former prosecutor; she makes comments on the case with no evidence at all to support what she says. I didn’t watch tonight, but I heard her a couple of times and couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

      • It’s hard for me to believe she was a former prosecutor; she makes comments on the case with no evidence at all to support what she says.

        How, exactly, is that any different from the Florida prosecutors involved in the trial – especially in their opening statement, and their responses to defense motions for judgement of acquittal?

        • That’s true. The prosecutors in the case … I just don’t have words to describe their deliberate behavior to railroad Zimmerman. The city of Sanford would’ve calmed and settled by now had the Governor not meddled and the media would have used some journalistic integrity. But Nancy should be politically removed enough to fairly weigh the evidence and facts that aren’t allowed that should be (cell phone vids, FB, tweets etc)… It’s frustrating that she doesn’t seem to stop and think, “what if George was defending himself” as a possibility.

          • Nancy Grace is not predisposed to law and ethics in her current profession as a TV host. She is now predisposed to get ratings. How do you get ratings unless you are sensationalistic. I expect to see Debra Nelson on the HLN lineup after this case is over.

            Do you remember Judge Sidlin (sp) crying over Anna Nicole Smiths remains on national TV. He was offered a TV spot for his antics.

      • You may notice a pattern with prosecutors and former prosecutors. Marcia Clark, Nancy Grace, Bernardo de la Rionda, John Guy, Richard Mantei, Angela Corey, etc.
        They lie like rugs.

        • I was completely shocked to hear Marcia Clark weigh in on this case for the first time. Surprisingly, Christopher Darden has maintained some common sense and from what I believe I’ve heard, believes this is self defense.

        • You are right, I had seen others prosecutors obfuscate, or dance around something, but these people straight out lie, and probable lies at that. Nothing is artfully concealed. Amazing.

            • At least the court can pretend not to know the facts, because they are supposed to wait until presented but those prosecutors they have not excuse. The end justifies the means does not work with me.Too much harm has been done with “good” intentions.

              • I agree. The state has destroyed a lot of trust in the average folk. Anyone who looks at this case dispassionately know Trayvon wanted a fight. He came back from where he ran for the fight.

                That the prosecutors didn’t have the courage to tell his parents that is outrageous.

                To deceive his parents, they had to stomp all over people’s careers and spend tax-payer money.

                Of course, as I’ve seen evidence that Rachel was indeed on the phone with Trayvon, I think his parents have known all along what happened and they saw an opportunity and they took it.

                • Absolutely, which brings something that I am concerned about, the defense did not provide a motive for TM attacking GZ.

                  The tox report could have given an indication, but it was not used. There was no other reason given to the jury for TM’s assault, will they wonder, what caused TM to attack GZ?

                  In the absence of any other theory will they think that TM was originally defending himself, and got the better of GZ who he now pulled the gun because he was losing?

                  Remember towards the end how the prosecution kept trying to imply that TM was pulling away and that GZ held on to him in order to fire?

                  I am really worried about this I hope they can tied things at Close because right now there is a big gap in the Defenses case.

                • On the contrary, it has been the parents who have been the deceivers.

                  Tracy “Fruit” Martin was the one who was buying the gun for his son.

    • She’s particularly incredulous tonight. Was telling though that she said she’s uncomfortable with the ethical duties of a defense attorney. But what about her ethical duties?


      “… a panel of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals wrote in a 2005 opinion that they agreed with the magistrate judge who said Grace “played fast and loose” with her ethical duties”

      And what about her ethical duties as a journalist?

      • Journalists do not have any ethical duties. Period. The ethical line is “defamation,” and the press has a particularly high bar in that regard, see NYT v. Sullivan.
        Journalists claim to have ethical obligations (and that claim is itself a lie) because it helps them to sucker rubes. There is no enforcement method against journalists, for anything short of defamation.

      • There are no “ethical” duties of any journalist. The reason Nancy Grace has been acting as a prosecutor on TV is because she sucked at her job as a prosecutor. I’d love to know who threw her out of the legal justice system. There are many “former” prosecutors, former “judges” and former lawyers who have moved to TV which is a very big come down. When you can’t make it in your chosen profession, which took years of education to attain, you go on TV.

        • In business it is said those that can do succeed those that can’t become teachers, for lawyers it seems those that can have their practices those that can’t become TV analyst.

      • Friar – NG got the chit sued out of herself when she harassed the mother of a missing child in Fla., Melissa Duckett. She yelled/screamed in an interview Duckett on air & accused her of harming her missing child. The Duckett child has never been found, BUT, Duckett committed suicide the day after the interview. It was terribly tragic for Duckett’s entire family who had already been searching for the missing child.

        Duckett’s family sued NG for wrongful death & won, she paid but the amount has NEVER been disclosed, you know, “confidentality” & all as not to embarrass NG. I would imagine the case settled for alot SINCE it would have ruined NG had it gone to trial. LMAO, ALL the Orlando Media would have covered her trial. NG had to go to FLa. for the case YET NG claimed her law suit shouldn’t be subjected to the Sunshine Laws in Fla, which ironically have produced so much information to the public in cases that NG used on her program & was glad to air other peoples miseries. S K A N K !

        • Omgoodness! I remember her hammering grieving family members (it may have been Duckett),.. I was yelling at the tv…”you got to be kidding me Nancy!”. She treats everyone like criminals …but I doubt very seriously if she came across like that with Sybrina and Tracy.

          • rejoicenhim – this has been referred to “as Nancy’s fall from grace.” CNN was too named in the lawsuit & there was a trust set up in the child’s name with $ 200,000.00. I don’t know the other monies paid out in the case to the family. She didn’t learn a thing for the hurt/pain she caused the Duckett family, Melissa Duckett was only 21 years old when she took her own life.

            NG too convicted the Duke Lacrosse players along w/Sharpton in the Media. Screaming night after night they were guilty on her show to PROMOTE ratings ONLY to be PROVEN to be a LIAR HERSELF.

            She NOR Sharpton ever apologized to the players families or Coaches.

  27. In the video above with Al and Crump, I notice Al trying to be a little more toned down in his rhetoric, by saying be peaceful no matter the outcome. Maybe he’s concerned that he may be the subject of a suit if he continues to incite hatred and riots.

    • This is the first time I’ve heard of the Trevis Doley (sp) case (a black man that shot and killed a white man in self defense), David brings this up in making the point that the media didn’t make a big deal out of that case.

      • I am not sure which case that might be, but there is one where the black man claimed self-defense and he was rightfully convicted because he went into his garage and got a gun. He was fighting over a very petty issue and he killed the man who was protecting children from the black man and his abuse.

  28. The only way George Zimmerman, and his family, will ever have any life is for an acquittal and then they get on a plane at the closest airport for another country. O’Mara said that GZ will never be safe again for the rest of his life. George, please don’t go all martyr on us.

  29. Just popping in Nettles, sorry I haven’t visited your comment section yet. I will look upthread to see if anyone addressed this, but I believe that in Florida if the State wants a Manslaughter Instruction, they get a Manslaughter instruction. MOM can fight the other lesser includeds out.

  30. A 17 year old black kid with 3 suspensions, loved fighting and had no direction – it is racist to state he could have – just could have started the assault. But now those same idiots are telling young black teens “Don’t riot” and are the basis for statements from O’mara such as “George will never be safe again”


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