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July 24, 2013

NewsGeorge Zimmerman Discussion Post Verdict

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66 thoughts on “July 24, 2013

  1. Following.

    I wonder what’s up with the GZ vs NBC suit. I also wonder why Corey and her team isn’t being smart and just dropping Shellie’s perjury charge. I have a feeling if they go through with it they will look even worse by the time it ends.

    • This is a good survey. I like it because the questions are predicated based on fact. No honest person can misunderstand the question to obtain a truthful answer. I doubt it will change a closed mind, but it will get someone who is at least halfway reasonable to think about it and will nag at their conscience. It will help an honest person to come to the correct conclusion about the innocence of George Zimmerman.

  2. Talk left has an article up about GZ and good samaritans and racial injustice. She starts out with GZ’s recent helping of the overturned vehicle, but then talks about the need to change how the justice system is unfair to blacks. I get it that she’s primarily into the law, and it’s a legal blog, but it seems to me she’s trying to address people’s upset with the GZ verdict. To me, the way to prevent what happened from happening again, is not dealing with the justice system (if it needs it, that’s something totally separate from GZ) – the way to prevent it is for blacks to work on their own communities, to stop boys from becoming hoodlums, to quell the violence. So, to me it’s weird for her to start with the subject of GZ and then go into the justice system – they’re just not connected. As I said, I realize that’s her interest – but it’s missing the opportunity to address the real problem of the GZ event.

    And to me it’s not fun reading her people’s comments – they’re often snipping at each other. I never went there before the GZ case – I heard about the blog, but heard it was an Obama den, and that Hillary supporters (long time members of the blog) were harassed and driven away, particularly by the guy who posts there (he seems to only post about sports for some reason). But judging by the way they’re often at each other’s throats now, I’m glad I didn’t go there during 2008. But I do like a lot of Jerilyn’s posts.

    • Jeralyn was addressing what she says is an over-representation of blacks and minorities in the prison system. She blames some of the laws for that situation. Says that if the laws did not exist then these people would not be breaking those laws. She is a lawyer who goes in to bat for her clients. She is right on some things but not necessarilyright on other things.

      Many of the issues she addresses occurs in other countries such as my own. However, I still think that we need boundaries and our laws give us those boundaries.

      • I like Jeralyn for her stance on GZ but on this we have to disagree. The disparate impact laws that she refers usually refer to Crack or Rock cocaine as oppose to powder. Unfortunately, I lived in Harlem at the time when crack was an epidemic, and I witness first hand the devastation it was having on the communities. I saw young women and men debase themselves in order to get the next hit, I saw mothers selling their children, addicts would steal anything not nailed, I saw old ladies getting stomped on just to get some money for their fix.

        Those laws were and are harsh but little compared to the damage in some communities. So, I am not to sympathetic to their plight as they knew and saw the same things but did not care. I have a similar feeling with mandatory sentences and the 3 strikes your out laws. The main issue I have is this, blaming the laws is like the Chicken or the Egg arguments, are the laws making criminals or are the criminals breaking the laws? Her argument is that the laws are making the criminals and I don’t buy that, trying to reform the justice system without addressing the reasons why the criminals are breaking the law is a futile exercise. Especially when we consider that it was those communities that were the most afflicted that cried out for a toughening of the laws to save their communities.

        • I agree with you Bori and yes similar happened in Australia.

          I have never been involved with drugs or the drug scene but I have seen the harm that involvement does to people. I can tell many stories about the harmful effects of those drugs including cannabis.

          I totally agree that you have to address those other things before talking about law reform. That is my own disagreement with Jeralyn on this matter. She sees it from a legal viewpoint but not on the truly personal level.

          • It is a problem affecting most Leftist, they talk about the disparity in the sentences or the number of criminals of this race or that and call the system skewed, in need of reform.

            But without addressing the root causes for the differences it is useless. Take Trayvon for instance he was not a poor kid from the ghetto, as many have described him. He was a middle class kid, that while their parents were divorced, still lived without the economic deprivations that some other young friends of his had.

            But he chose to live a lifestyle that is sordid of a Thug. Why? What influenced him? Those are the questions nobody asks, yet an answer to them would do more for other young TM’s than reforming the laws, so that they won’t go to jail for 20 yrs instead of 5 years.

            • Yes, Bori. The right questions do need to be asked.

              Here is a good one for you and yes it involves making more laws. Australia is contemplating putting in place some laws that would bring young bullies before the courts.

              One former judge thinks that this might be the way to go because the threat of going before the courts might be enough to end what is happening.

              The bullying is so bad that people have been committing suicide. Not all children react the way that the boy Casey did when he thumped the bully and then the video went viral.

              A lot of these things start because of bullying. I have been there and done that and I hate bullying in the workplace.

              What needs to be addressed is perhaps what occurs in the home.

              • I have issues with any law that seeks to criminalize thoughts rather than actions. Bullying is a problem but is passing a law against it the decision? If someone says something I don’t like or makes a joke about my clothing can I say that is bullying?

                Have we become as a society so sensitive that we need this? Obviously they are issues both with the bully and one being bullied, but is that enough to try to solve the problem that should be taken care at home on both sides instead of having government intervention, which is what would happen with these laws.

                • I will be watching this development closely.

                  Bullying is about more than thoughts. There is a very physical aspect to bullying. I have been bullied, especially at school. I know all about the hurt that comes from those constant taunts. My school years were a nightmare.

                  To go one step further in developing this theme, one of the bullies was a teacher, a nun. I hated her with a real passion because of what she did to me and to others. It was not just me, but every year she picked on one girl. One of her victims was an aboriginal girl in Sydney. Another was a girl that I first met when we were in the kindergarten class together. (This same girl was the one whose house I went to when I ran from the predator in his car). That girl was as quiet as a mouse, but this nun also bullied her.

                  Bullying in school, and bullying in the workplace is a public issue. Government cannot control what happens in the home. It can have some say about what happens in public places.

                  If for example a waitress is being bullied by fellow wait staff, and them going as far as spitting on her, and telling her to go kill herself (which she did), then that is a very serious matter.

                  The idea that has come up is to deal directly with bullying inside the schools. It can get very rough. One of my nieces also tried to commit suicide over bullying. The purpose is not necessarily to punish these bullies from what I understand, but to frighten them by taking them into the court system.

                  I am skeptical that what they are proposing will work. There needs to be intervention, yes, but….

                  Anyway, I have many stories to tell about bullying, not just to myself, but especially to others. I really abhor the whole practice of bullying, thug behaviour and intimidatory tactics…. now there.. think about that for a moment and I think I have a new avenue for my next post.

                  • As someone who had also been bullied, I can empathized, but once bullying crosses into physical there are laws that protect you in those instances.

                    Like the the spitting is an assault and the person should have been charged with such. This like many are difficult issues as what would work in one case does not necessarily works in others.

                    To me bullying is a societal issue not necessarily a criminal one, unless the it crosses that line. Perhaps rather than create new laws, we should enforce those that are already there.

                    We have got to remember that bullying is nothing new, it has been going on from the beginning of time, what we call bullying is what other animals do to assert themselves, we are no different in that regard. As such a societal solution should be the answer not a governmental one.

                    • I saw the report on the TV last night. The other wait staff are going to get a hard time… who knows they might have been charged with a crime because the girl committed suicide.

                    • I will be attempting to develop this theme in my mind. I do think that there are criminal aspects to bullying.

                      To give you a hint, I want to look more closely at “intimidation”. You might be able to guess my direction, but I have not developed anything for the moment.

                    • Perhaps, I am being old fashioned, you know the “sticks and stones” sort of guy. I do believe that the issue can cross the lines, but we have laws to deal with that. Enforcement is as with other things the issue.

                    • Yes, there are laws that deal with some aspects of bullying… not there are other aspects where perhaps the law needs to apply.

                      The school bullying has changed a lot since we were children. My tears at the time were real but I did not commit suicide… only felt I wanted to do that. These days it is a lot more cruel.

                      Something tells me that children pick up these cruelties inside the home.

                      Where I will develop my ideas for a post will be on other forms of bullying, not just in the workplace, but elsewhere.

                      The Zimmerman trial has a lot of those aspects of bullying right in front of our noses. This is a theme that I might want to develop as I look at the vexing question.

                    • I don’t think that bullying today is less cruel just different. Social media immediately comes to mind. Perhaps a better questions should be, what has changed that allowed you, as hurt as you were, not to kill yourself? Are we weaker now somehow?
                      Finding answers to that could help more than any law, imo.

                    • Different levels of bullying invite different reactions. The suicide ideation is a part of what the most bullied victims go through. Getting help is important. Crying a lot also helps but people see it as weakness.

                      Bullying today is more cruel than when I was at school. There are many aspects to bullying. What I experienced at school is a miniscule part of the larger picture.

                      In the bigger picture you need to consider forms of workplace bullying. I am not talking about victim and bully here…. I am just trying to help draw that wider picture that shines a light on intimidatory tactics.

                      My experience with regard to bullying takes in several environments – workplace, school and home. Each is harmful. One stands out more than any other and that is the workplace.

          • Thanks, it annoys me when I hear the jail population is so high, but crime is going down. They completely miss that perhaps the fact that more criminals are in jail, is lowering the overall crime rate. Is the same thing with statistics that point to how many blacks are in jail, could it be because they are committing most of the crime? Some admit to this but go on to say a lot of other BS about how the criminal systems is against them. Hello, the criminal system is supposed to be against criminals, hence the name. Then they point to this study or that study that only looks at certain specific things to say, you see this proves, but anytime those studies are analysed and the variables are taken into account, guess what any disparity either disappears or it the difference becomes statistically insignificant.

            Lately, they don’t bother to point to studies because they have been debunked instead they just assert it as the truth, and repeated enough it has become the truth.

    • http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/22/21644/9178/crimenews/Zimmerman-Good-Samaritans-and-Racial-Injustice

      While I wholeheartedly agree with her on the matter of decriminalizing petty, non-violent offenses and finding alternative punishments for crimes that simply do not warrant imprisonment… I’m not sure she understands that you can’t completely divorce reality from evidence-based policing practices for the sake of political correctness.

      Or more to the point, when trying to establish effective and practical crime control policies, you can’t ignore UCR data and the statistically relevant demographics of those committing the crimes.

      Our police departments need to be able to identify where their efforts and presence are most needed.

      • Jeralyn is more liberal than most Democrats, she does not compromise her principles as a defense attorney for politics.

        I do not agree with her position on crime control, I would enjoy Jeralyn discussing crime control and drug legalization with Mark Kleiman.

        Jeralyn list does not include what I think is critical to reducing the black youth homicides rates, enforcement of guns laws, which takes money to fund police activity to remove illegal weapons out of the hands of dangerous people.

    • I post sometimes under yet another fake name. There are some real nasty folks, Yman for instance. Jeralyn used to delete my posts about Crump’s fabrications and power plays for political and financial gain, but over the months she started saying such herself. I enjoyed watching the evolution of the voices as the evidence proved what we already understood early on. Living in Berkeley, the capital of social engineering, righteousness, nasty people and white guilt, I was well seasoned to such indulges and enjoyed getting their ire up.

  3. My fear is that profiling will become illegal for the average citizen. Maybe I’m wrong, but I see that as what they’re going to try to put into law. We will not be able to defend ourselves. Bizarre.

  4. I am bumping this link from last night, imo, it may have an IMPACT on the sanctions in GZ’s case against Corey/BDLR, Judge Nelson CAN’T DENY the corrupt behavior now.
    ____________________

    Angela Corey’s office rebuked for late evidence gaffe in wrongful-termination suit

    The office of State Attorney Angela Corey faces potential sanctions and will have to pay thousands of dollars in taxpayer money after failing to turn over all documents in a wrongful termination case filed by a former employee.

    It prompted a scolding by U.S. District Judge Timothy Corrigan and follows similar criticisms in the failed prosecution of George Zimmerman.

    Julie Lyncker, a former clerk in the Nassau County office, says she was fired after she complained about the way former Assistant State Attorney Wesley White treated her.

    She is asking for undisclosed damages.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-angela-corey-evidence-violation-20130723,0,979424.story
    Isn’t this the same White representing the whistle blower that is about to FILE another suit against Corey?

    Seems if MOM/West wanted to site other cases w/the same behavior from Corey’s office, this one case is on the hot seat CAUSING the trial to be delayed because the State didn’t turn over exculpatory evidence, their OUTSIDE attorney found the emails on Saturday & immediately turned them over, the trial was to start Monday.

    Corey got her a$$ chewed by this Judge, NO FAVORS to the corrupt bunch from this Judge who publicly humiliated Corey.

    • It’s too bad GZ didn’t have a judge that was as intolerant as Corrigan is about the state breaking the rules. But maybe Corrigan’s judgements will give support to GZ’s defense team when they have their hearing with Nelson about the state’s abuses.

      • I recall when Ben was testifying he said something about a policy in the office not to put case numbers or names on emails so they could get around discovery issues. Judge Nelson shut that down once it came up.

        It would be a very good idea for any politician not wanting to get egg on their face with the practices of Corey’s office to conduct an internal investigation into the handling of discovery issues by her office.

        In future, these violations could result in a guilty man going free or an innocent man being convicted and the public will not take kindly to it.

        • I have to wonder at what point the PUBLIC LIABILITY of this corrupt bunch become too much for Pam Bondi. Isn’t Bondi the boss of her mentor & former campaign manager Corey?

          MOM/West have said they are going to proceed w/the sanctions against BDLR, but its problematic when Judge Nelson MAY DENY the sanctions & the $$$$$$$$$$ sought against the State. MOM has said “irrefuteable evidence,” so I hope Judge Nelson doesn’t use her discreation to AGAIN RULE AGAINST the Defense Team.

          If ALL else fails, I assume the Defense Team could APPEAL her decison bringing more humilation upon Judge Nelson as well as Corey/BDLR.

    • Nettles – GZ DESERVES KUDOS for setting an example to those that choose not to get involved when they see an accident, GZ doing the right thing, GZ just being who he is! GZ deserves all the praises he receives.

      I am thankful the family decided to speak out, their children must has been scared to death. Hopefully, the tide is turning for GZ.

      • The family cancelled the news conference. They don’t want to be involved. A spokesperson in O’Mara’s office told a reporter “They don’t want to be associated with George”.

        I guess that is their way of saying “thanks” 😉

        No worries. George didn’t want the incident public anyway.

        • He certainly did not want to put in danger the four people he had just rescued. In a way, I wish the death threats made against him and his family were made public. Only those of us who support George believe that they exist. I understand the logic in not exposing them, but surely that can be done without risk.

          Think about this: Who is willing to take the risk of being friends with George or even associated with him.. or the family? Will he have to keep all of his relationships with other folks secret? I wonder when he last went out to dinner or to a grocery store? I started thinking about the things I do and realized that George could not do any of them, safely.

          Are any of his haters actually willing to track him down. .. or is it all talk? It gets worse.. would Obama, Holder, Scott, and Bondi free such a person for justifiable homicide in the national interest? If that sounds like a crazy question, then why was no one in the new black panthers ever charged with a crime? Imagine printing up wanted posters for any of the conspirators, named above.

          America has now officially gone to __________________ ? Your choice of words to fit but it’s not pot or hell.

  5. Is it my imagination or is the PUBLIC lynching & pressure applied by Entrepreneurial racist Sharpton/J Jackson of GZ to be charged w/hate crimes losing momentum? It no longer leads National news, maybe an article for each outlet, sadly our country has a million problems needing to be addressed that are far more important than the harassment of GZ.

    The good news is that the press seems to be pursuing stories associated with the birth of the “son that would be king,” which, imo, is a welcome diversion from the negative press GZ received.

      • Maybe they realized that private, sincere gratitude is sufficient, and that ANY contact with the press WILL result in negative consequences. This message to the press is (hopefully) false, but good enough to get the press off their back as well as stifle the violent urges of (some of) Martin’s supporters.

        • Have you paid much attention to his head movements during pressers? He listens intently to questions. Some are met with his head constantly nodding up and down but often he moves side to side.

          I would not feel comfortable with so many mikes jabbed into my face at close range. Maybe someone should be assigned to help us hear the questions.

            • I have seen a lot of comments indicating that he always wore a bullet proof vest when in public, including one that said he wore one each day during the trial. These were comments, not verified by anyone. So I don’t know.

              Will he and Don West always have to be cautious like George and his family? How many people who supported George and now respect the verdict will have to be careful about what they say?

              Thought police may now number in the thousands. A couple of us here.. not me. . post anonymously and change their names at every meal. Why is that?

              A large piece of us died as a result of this fiasco. Many, more examples but just a few are: Free speech? True Civil Rights? A POTUS and AG who incredibly wish to honor a thug who attacked an innocent man….. never done before in our history.

              Not one single person who was indisputably a part of this public malicious prosecution has been charged with any kind of crime. Instead they are all being nationally recognized as the new leaders of a recent generation of dark colored people. And apparently, the judicial system has new rules based on a new Progressive Constitution, written by the BGI.

              How many white people have reversed their support for the black community? Vulgar, hate-inspired name-calling and hate-inspired diatribes are now PC but only if you are one of “them.”

              ======================================

              This happened in the presence of one of our friends, ItsMichaelNotMike ?

              http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-36-2-public-interest-waning/#comment-13739

              I hope he will post an update about it.

    • I watched this live. I couldn’t believe Tracy and Ben left while the hearing was still going on. They went to Washington to attend the hearing and didn’t book their flight giving enough time to actually attend the whole hearing. I guess it was too boring for them.

      I’m sure the politicians won’t be impressed. On the other hand, everyone turns a blind-eye to Tracy and his bad behavior. For example, lying to police while calling for an arrest. Arriving in court late and choosing to not attend to hear the result of a trial they demanded take place. Swearing at family members of GZ’s in the courthouse. Making up stories about Trayvon that are not true. Saying the truth about the boy is actually a smear on him. and now, not attending the hearing for anything other than to put demands on the politicians.

      • Courtesy of SD:

        The father of Trayvon Martin, who has left every mother of his numerous children. •The father who was texting his son about buying handguns, and dope. •The father who lied on the stand in the trial of George Zimmerman before the world, and before the faces of the four investigative officers who knew the truth. •The father who left his “at risk teen son” alone for the weekend so he could attend a convention. •The father who refused to give police the passcodes/swipe codes to Trayvon’s phone and instead told the police on 2/28/12 to call his attorney. •The father who lied about how his son got to Sanford. •The father who falsified a sworn statement to FDLE investigators. •The father who said he saw he last saw Trayvon at 8:00pm when in actuality Trayvon was shot at 7:17. This is the “representative role model”?

        That is the short list but there is a lot more, as we all know.

        I am not being cruel …just honest….. but my perspective is that losing Trayvon was a good trade to them for the life they now live…

        Geesh… they didn’t even know him. They might have learned more about him since his death than they ever knew before and they surely had no interest in helping him get real help aside from pushing him off to someone else who would tolerate and even accept his behavior to be normal for all black teens.

        Wonder if Tracy discussed all of that today? /sarc

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