Home » Uncategorized » Week of August 5th, 2013

Week of August 5th, 2013

Scheme team

Post Discussion – George Zimmerman acted in Self-Defense.

On Friday last week, most of us were encouraged to hear Mr. O’Mara tell an audience of lawyers, he isn’t finished with the people who tried to convict George Zimmerman.

He has his sights set on Angela Corey and her office for the discovery issues that came as a result for starters. I also hope that the misinformation that the Scheme Team knowingly put out in the first months of this case to bring pressure for an arrest gets dealt with as well.

Florida Governor Scott asking for an independent investigation in light of the lies and allegations being made by Ben Crump and company, is understandable.  But that he went to a prosecutor who has a reputation for over-charging and not playing by the rules of discovery is disconcerting.  Had Ms. Corey done a proper investigation and backed up what Chief Lee and Norm Wolfinger were telling the city Manager Bonaparte and the Mayor Triplett, that self-defense could not be disproven on what they knew then so many people wouldn’t have been misled.

This cannot stand and everyone must be held accountable or you can expect more defendants to be railroaded in the State of Florida.

Thanks for being a part of sharing information which hopefully will lead to some positive changes for defendants in courtrooms.  Let only the guilty be found guilty and only the innocent be set free by fair and ethical lawyers in the system.


359 thoughts on “Week of August 5th, 2013

  1. I notice Nat Jack wears that cross around her neck often. Angela Corey wears one too. I think it means something different to them than it does to me and to other Christians. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were burn marks underneath.

    • “I wouldn’t be surprised if there were burn marks underneath.”

      Hee Hee. Little Laughter, you owe me a screen cleaning. I read it, moved on to something else, got it, and little drops of coffee all over my screen. 😆

    • Nettles depiction of the semi feminine version of Satan, reminds me of Lucy (Lucifer) showing Mr. Deity around hell, and talking about how she plans to treat those who are sent to her. I always have imagined Satan as a female; they’d get the job done right, that’s for sure:

  2. As disgusting as the Scheme Team is, I have an even bigger grievance against the major TV networks that promoted their lies with complete disregard for actual facts. They are responsible for inflaming mass audiences with hatred and misinformation disguised as righteous indignation in order to gain higher ratings and the almighty dollar. I sincerely hope there will be lawsuits filed and won for the Zimmermans and to compensate the defense team. I would be especially pleased if Nancy Grace had to apologize to America and the world for the hatred she has spewed.

      • I don’t follow Nancy Grace either, but by chance heard enough from her while trying to follow Zimmerman trial on HLN 😦 Thank goodness I learned about the live-streamed court coverage, followed some good folks on twitter, and found this and other blogs! Social media saved my sanity. LOL.

  3. George Zimmerman’s lawyer thanks Ohio gun group for $12,000 check

    George Zimmerman’s attorney has formally thanked the Buckeye Firearms Foundation for the $12,150.37 check the Ohio gun rights group mailed to the exonerated Florida “stand your ground” man.

    Mark M. O’Mara of Orlando said the money would be forwarded directly to Zimmerman “to replace items necessary for him to protect himself and also to accomplish security systems for his house.”

    More… http://dispatchpolitics.dispatch.com/content/blogs/the-daily-briefing/2013/08/050813—zimmerman-gets-his.html

    • So much goes for those that claimed that O’Mara was only out for himself, and that he wanted every dime the Zimmerman’s had.

      Thank you to the people at Buckeye Firearms Foundation. You are true American heroes.

      • So what was O’Mara supposed to do – pocket the money that comes in with all the world watching? You owe it to yourself to read my latest thread on him, I put the link below.

        There’s a couple of things I wrote on my thread about O’Mara that will most certainly catch your attention, because I know you’re smarter than the general populace, Minpin, and you had to have questioned the same things.

        When I was doing the commentary on the trial, you were asking if I was a body language expert? I put Simon Baron-Cohen’s video presentation, which might interest you in that regard.


        • No thanks ricksundancemadigan. Whatever you may have written, from your past commentary, it without doubt will contain O’Mara is evil, he doesn’t have George’s best interest at heart, and he wears pinkie rings. I have better things to do.

          • Minipin. I guess you did not miss the memo where those of us who leave the CTH are just liberal/progressives, who leave and go to other sites just to bash SD because we refuse to see the “truth”. Lol When you read one MOM bashing post you pretty much have read them all! The thought process of some treepers defies logic. Truth is inclusive, and being Conservative their collectivism…similiar to The Charles Manson family. Any true Christian conservative KNOWS you at least give the appearance of seperation of Church and State in order to spread the truth. And most importantly you ALWAYS humble yourself.. At least to be inline with the Art Of War. Nobody who seeks truth wants to hear a message where one follows a anonymous nutcase 100% of the time just because he was right 1% of the time.
            Is the glass half full or half empty? As for me I return to read SDs stuff only because a nut a day keeps the Dr. away. He helps me accept I am indeed few of the sane living in a mad mad world. That and for the lulz.

            • I don’t exactly know what happened with you and Sundance, danny. I didn’t care to pay attention.

              You should read some of the comments on my latest blog thread. I haven’t always found Sundance to realize what is going on. Overly optimistic, delusional and deceptive types, who have no concept how the world works, he honors with high praises on the tree. But passionate people like himself, he often doesn’t get.

                • “Do not worry rick. I did not pay attention either. Lol.”

                  Yeah, I did not know what was going on. I didn’t know why you became so important there. Lol!

                  Passion is very important in politics, and emotion can be helpful. I think sometimes Sundance doesn’t like who he is, as he said to Jello, once that Jello was all the optimism of life he used to be. So he longs to be as delusional and wrong as Jello? I wish Sundance would like himself more, than he would acknowledge those strengths in others that he has himself.

                  And I agree about defining oneself, its very limiting to your ability to think and breathe in the whole world. You might like my blog thread on Myths and Heroes. Those lectures by Joseph Campbell really allowed me to consider other ideas in the world beside my own. A Hero is one who has opened up to the world, so he can be truly effective.

                  • Being human we all need to know there are others who have had the same experiences and go through similar struggles. The problem is when one boxes themself in to these titles just to feel like they belong or have a purpose. The purpose to belong soley becomes the reason instead of the lesson of the experience. From there it seems they enjoy revictimizing themselves by finding only like minded individuals. What happens when a bunch of immature emotionalistic humans with grudges gather themselves together? Simply CTH and BGI.

                    • “The purpose to belong solely becomes the reason instead of the lesson of the experience. ”

                      I am not too much for belonging anywhere. I got over the silliness to conform, in my teens. But yes, as I have said before on D-Man’s blog, earlier on, to Minpin, I think, CTH is very much about relationshipping, and letting people play them with polite nonsense. And these can lead to codependency.

                    • You had the honor, danny, of having an entire thread devoted to you. That was the final straw for many of who posted at the Tree so you had quite an impact on others. I view that as a positive outcome.

                      I, for one, began a search for you and finally found your blog. I could relate to you because I had a similar issue with my own Mother.

                    • That was a low point for the treehouse. Rick (Sundance) invited us back to debate about O’Mara and then Danny’s views were mocked and ridiculed.

                      I was shocked that Diwataman ignored that and gave us hell for going off topic on his blog.

                      Diwataman scolded us that if we disagreed with someone from our own side (Sundance) a better way to handle it would be to put the criticism in a private email instead of having a public debate.

                      I totally agree with that. So why couldn’t the same consideration be given to Mr. O’Mara? Why did Sundance insist on publicly airing the critcism of someone from our own side?

                      The opposition did use it but thankfully did not prevail.

                    • Shortly after I got banned, I got an email telling me that Rick was Sundance. I don’t remember a Rick Madigan posting and never heard of him.

                      After I got banned, he showed up spewing the same hate for Mr. O’Mara and I started to wonder if the tip was correct. I read at the treehouse after being banned and you’ll note Rick knows the history of a lot of commenters and you’ll note he can remember scrapes Sundance got into with some of us.

                      I became convinced he was Sundance when Rick came onto Diwataman’s blog and invited the banned commenters back to discuss O’Mara. Who but the owner of a blog would have the gull to invite banned posters back?

                      Rick can’t remember things that happened with Sundance and some posters and at other times he has an amazing memory of all that went on. I find the lapses in memory always convenient.

                      Rick tells me we talked on the legal’s facebook page. I don’t remember him and I don’t recall talking to him at the treehouse while I posted there.

                      You will also see lots of conversations between Rick and Sundance. On facebook, this was common too. Someone on two different profiles came on the make a point and try to show support or sometimes argue the other side. It’s pathetic in my opinion and a disservice to his readers.

                      Within days of me getting banned, his posts were there a lot and at first I thought he was a Zimmerman family member.

                      My last post was Feb, 23rd. Go look at the comments before that date, Rick didn’t post there very often. Then look at his postings after Feb. 23rd.

                      I’m 99% certain he’s Sundance.

                    • That is not it but I did make another very brief comment about hoiw it is mathematically “impossible” for SD to be Rick. Did you see that? It requires a lot of work and reasonable estimates to do that plus following the comments made by both of them and comparting the post times and I am not anxious to do it again. Long ago I did the same thing.. not sure where I posted though.

                    • Everything rec’d by the site is posted. Nothing pending, nothing in spam. I don’t see that post in your comments today or yesterday.

                    • It has happened twice. I am sure it’s something I did. I will figure it out. I press POST COMMENT and it disappears.. does not post. No big deal .

                    • I don’t think that Rick is Sundance –

                      – unless Sundance can bilocate and has multiple personalities.

                      If he is, he is a most amazing individual. To be able to put out consistently sharp topical articles in such a useful form on such a quick basis on so many breaking stories would seem to be more than a full time job in and of itself in one blog.

                      Rick is every bit as opinionated as Sundance, but there is the secularist approach in his recently constructed blog that seems opposite of the quasi-religious tone extant at CTH.

                      I have had the same experience at CTH at times when I have offered a differing opinion as to why MOM may have done this or that, or not done this or that.

                      Sundance walks point on a lot of hot button issues and is goring some very sacred cows in public discourse. Caution on his part, if not a good dose of paranoia is understandable. And while his comments and reactions are harsh, I chalk it up to the idea that, perhaps, it is that type of personality that gets things done in the manner that he does.

                      The overall tone of the discussions at the CTH distracts from the value of the articles that they put out, but it is what it is.

                      Having said all this, Nettles, you could very well be right about Madigan/Sundance. If so, I am amazed.

                    • I cannot locate a rather lenghty post I made about this, but do the math to determine how long it takes for SD to investigate an idea for a thread, locate supportiing links, formulate it into an article, and then write it in an easy to read logical manner. Then look at the posting time of his comments on threads at the Tree and compare them to Rick’s at other sites. Sorry, but I cannot conceive of Rick being SD.

                    • I’m ok with you having a different opinion. My remains unchanged.

                      It’s a hell of a coincidence that the person Sundance sent to Diwataman’s blog to tell all the banned people to come back was none other than Rick Madigan. A person, I had been told was Sundance about a month earlier.

                      He didn’t ask Diwataman to advise us on his blog. He didn’t send one of the admins. He never posts on other’s blogs but you can find lots of evidence that he reads elsewhere and copy and pastes or responds on his own blog.

                      Like I said, I don’t remember Rick before I got banned but he sure had loads of insight and the very same opinion of Mr. O’Mara.

                      I’m certain he’s Sundance.

                    • Any chance you will reveal your source.. Who sent that email to you?

                      Why would anyone do that? Did you ask for any kind of verification? This has become a big puzzle to many of us because we have so much respect for you but I think a lot of us will continue to wonder until we see proof.

                    • The email came from SS Mirrored. I have no idea who that was. Told me the guy on the treehouse posting as Rick Madigan was actually Sundance. He/She also said they missed my posts at the treehouse and would it be ok to communicate through email. I responded with a yes and never heard from then again.

                      As I said, I was skeptical at first but watching Rick’s posts I thought it sounded like Sundance but remained unconvinced until Rick came onto Diwataman’s site to invite banned posters back.

                      Of all the people to send, he sent Rick. Hmmmmmm

                      I’m ok with being the only believer. Make up your own mind about it but just in case he is Sundance be careful what you share about Sundance unless you want him to know.

                    • My posts about what he says are objective…most of the time favorable but I am not concerned about being critical when the criticism is warranted. Not sure what you mean by “be careful.”

                      My issues at CTH came from the mods, not SD. They rush in before SD ever gets to respond. He has rescued me before which is how I got back in each time I was banned but he will never apologize for what the mods do.

                      I really loved Sharon and read all of her columns but then I figured out she was not who I thought she was. Same with Y lady from Canada. She is very intelligent and informed but if she disagrees or misunderstands one of your comments, you will never again be treated fairly. In her own words, “I never forget.”

                      Do you really think SD is revengeful?

                    • No not at all. I just meant that if I’m right be sure that what you say to Rick you wouldn’t mind Sundance knowing too.

                      Err on the side of caution.

                      As always I wish Sundance and his team of moderators nothing but the best. I am sorry we GZ supporters couldn’t stick together until the day the verdict was read. It is what it is.

                      I’m very happy to have met so many wonderful people on facebook, twitter and in the blogging world.

                    • I almost always speak my mind. One exception is that I make guarded comments about race and the solutions I think that are necessary and the other is my prediction about rebellions and a possible violent revolution that could realistically occur to restore the republic. I have found many others with like minds. To many Americans they would sound radical and impossible..Both notions will help to insure success.

                    • WOW.. That was a huge turning point for many of us.. many of whom chose to remain on the sidelines. I said that myself. I am reading through all of the comments to see how contributors have since changed and am also looking to see what was meant about Rick and stella.

                    • Note Rick tells me that if I won’t go to CTH to post (again recall I was bid farewell by Sundance), he will come to Diwataman’s blog to talk with me.

                      He quotes the famous saying “If Moses will not come to the mountain, the mountain must come to Moses.”


                      Can you picture Jello asking a banned poster back to Sundance’s blog? Tara? John Galt? No Rick, who says he doesn’t know Sundance personally says if I won’t go to CTH than the mountain will come to me. Who but the blog owner thinks he’s the mountain?

                      You’ll also note in that thread how Rick tells us what Sundance means and thinks. There’s only one way he knows that.

                      Now find me a comment of Rick’s prior to Feb. 23rd, 2013 on the CTH. I commented there daily for months and don’t recall the guy posting until after I got banned.

                      It’s weird.

                    • Rick may not have made any comments prior to Feb. 23rd, 2013 with his current username, but surely he was reading and even retaining what he read. I will ask him about that. but he has already written his opinion of me early in the case when I first joined up.

                    • Skip it. Each of us has an opinion. We are entitled to them. Not sure why Rick felt the need to ridicule me with the tinfoil hat or others who chose to post here as blindly following but that is how he wants to express himself.

                      A number of people expressed they thought I was wrong. They didn’t feel the need to follow my opinion. Rick is being an ass but I’m not mad. I’m disappointed. Thought we were on the same side.

                      Closed chapter.

                    • Agreed.. deal is done 😀

                      Did you notice my response on his Blog in which I asked for his purpose?

                  • I consider jello to be a good friend. I understand exactly why he appears to straddle the fence and get along with everyone, especially SD and the mods, and I respect him greatly for doing what he does. I think I know him on a different level than you do. There are many there who play their rules, even if they don’t like or agree with them. I, for one, did not feel like I could post openly and freely so it was not a good home for me. They have rules and so do I.

                    • If I may join in, there is an old saying for every rule, there an exception. I think that is something worth remembering. At the same time it is important to remember that SD and others serve their purpose and it is an important one.

                      The talk about the BGI is and important one, but not for exactly the reasons SD gives them. The same as talk about Progressives and Conservatives. whether one is right or wrong sometimes is immaterial to the fact that there is a conversation going on.

                      For example, I am in a interracial relationship, this has allowed me to learn about something that I would only hear or read about, it does not mean that everything I say about blacks is correct but that I have an added perspective. For far too long the conversation about about race relations was controlled by one side with the other side just nodding and agreeing, we see the results of that.

                      We don’t need to agree all the time, we can argue and disagree but it the conversation, the dialogue that allows us and those that just read here and there and everywhere to think and reason and perhaps learn something for all of us.

                    • You may be the only person I have ever really known who was in a successful marriage, such as you have.

                    • Why would you even say that about “wrong?” I have never heard anyone criticize you or your marriage but I am sure you have provoked a lot of thought. Some people could never agree with you because their understanding of Scripture is that races should never mix. You are an enigma. LOL.

                    • I agree. The conversation is the important component, not whether or not you change the position. Each perspective should have a voice.

                      Even in our own families, we disagree. So we work together on the things we agree with and respect each other to have a different opinion on other topics.

                      That’s where the Treehouse let the George Zimmerman effort down in my opinion. Sundance so wanted to change how Mr. O’Mara was viewed by me that when I refused to accept his point of view he bid me farewell.

                      What message does that send to the others posting there? They either stay silent on the topic when it comes up or they express an opinion that won’t anger the dear leader. Sundance latched onto Mr. Zimmerman Sr.’s comment that Mark O’Mara admitted to being a control freak. We saw evidence of controlling on display at the treehouse.

                      Sundance knew the issue of Mr. O’Mara was divisive but it was his site and he got to control the conversation there and he chose to do just that. So we fractured as a group.

                      I think had different opinions been embraced, we could have become a very powerful group and George Zimmerman’s defense fund would have sent a very strong message to those in power that the people won’t stand for the railroad. Instead it was constantly reported the fund was broke or near broke. Perhaps telegraphing a message to those in power the support to fight against the abuse was luke-warm at best.

                      We fought amongst ourselves, put doubt in the minds of potential contributors and made it harder for the man we were pulling for to get acquitted of the charges.

                      I’m scratching my head why the debate about Mr. O’Mara goes on for Rick. The trial is over, Mr. O’Mara prevailed, thank goodness and he and the entire defense team should have our congratulations and thanks.

                    • Jello is/was a great contributor. Is he still posting at the treehouse or did he get banned too?

                      His optimism and ideas were great to read. I miss reading his posts. I was saddened he chose not to post here, but I understand why he may have chose not to.

                      Coreshift reminds me of Jello. I wondered if they are the same? I think not, but they are often similiar.

                    • I like coreshift as well but I do not know if he or jello continue to post there. I only drop in once a while but do not have the desire to wade through thousands of comments. recently asked what percentage of comments are rejected. IIRC, it was 30 percent.

                      So there are 3 with whom I have been friends for a long time.. bori, jello, coreshift… for starters…. but consider many others to be friends. Most of us met when the Tree first began to cover the case. At one time, no one did it better than them. I think many remained because they knew of no other place that had factual info. As time progressed, the hammer began to come down on folks who remained there for the most minor of thinks. We found DMan’s place at first but DMan knew nothing about it. Then Rumpole began to attract more visitors. Mike McDaniel began post more often.

                      A lot of us encouraged you to do your own thing and it became an overnight sensation. Danny had a nice blog but was unable to keep it active due to some family issues. It was much later that I found Andrew Branca.

                      Once in a while, jello pops in at Dman’s. I will try to find him again.

                    • Nettles,
                      Yes, it was a very embarrasing time for TCH. I was embarrassed for Dman as well. I do not believe I said anything diffrent then anyone else that saw through SDs BS.
                      In fact I did not even post on that thread but saw MOM supporters being bashed at Dmans blog because of a post at the TH. As you know I feel the same as you about the damage it did to the fund. If someone wants to effect something so huge, then back the hell up what you say? I had no desire to sugar coat anything I ever said to SD. In fact I had attempted a few times to speak in private but SD always sent Sharon to his rescue. That is why a whole thread was dedicated to me me. SD would rather BLOCK and then publicly ridicule those who disagree with his agendas.
                      The guy cannot debate. No admin there can. That is y they block and then ridicule.
                      No it did not work for him that time. He had no choice but to engage me because his followers began questioning why a whole thread was dedicated to Danny? Who is Danny? Danny did not even post at the TH. All I did to help unravel SD was simply point out just a few times where is was utterly WRONG.

                      It was not my intention to have anyone leave CTH because of anything I had exposed. Hell, if I wanted that I could expose SD all the way back to prior to CTH. The point was and you know this, he invited people back for the sheer purpose to ridicule and then block them. He set them up. I am not sure about everyone else …but trust is only as good as a mans charcater. When people asked who I was admin alluded. But because Dman saw the position SD put him in Dman was gracious enough initially to allow me to respond. I gave my word. I responded and was done there. Ya know I do not put every follower in the same category at the TH, but being there prior to the GZ case and seeing how admins. jumped the shark, then began attacking their own admin. at times, contributors was embarassing. SD cares only for his own agenda. He is paranoid, egotistical and that my friend overpowers any good he has done. SDs demise is due unto himself. He drowned himself like Narcissus. Other admins would gladly fill his shoes. People however must find out for themselves. I take no credit.

                    • Without question, contributions to the fund crashed overnight and I do believe they never recovered to their previous daily records. It is why I continue to want that full audited statement and disclosure which is what MOM promised. He did some minor general monthly updates but that meant nothing to me compared to what he promised. We also never saw the trust and how the bar dealt with it.

                      At the same time contributions began to so rapidly decline, folks got more interested in the money and how it was being used in defense strategy. So people wanted to be a part in the strategy and decisions. Way too insane but it played a part in the fund losing its momentum.

                      I still want to see that accounting if not day by day, then at least month by month.

                      SD made many allegations and i want to know if he was correct about any of them without reading a million comments.I was one who researched the new bond agreement. I found the first one but not the other. I still have never seen it. Have you?

          • Minpin, I think everyone has given up the notion that I am Sundance. And I can assure you I care nothing about O’Mara’s pinkie rings. Sundance was downright silly to chuck out all his research, by mentioning high school nonsense like that.

            O’Mara could have come to court naked wearing nothing but a sombrero and cowboy boots, I could’ve cared less. Its what he cared about that mattered. And he did not care, nor will ever care about George. His tears are for the bullies. (check out BET video: http://www.bet.com/video/news/national/2013/zimmerman-defense-attorney-gets-emotional.html )

            I would’ve rather that you and Nettles had continued at the Treehouse then the weasly likes of Jello, who were turned into formidable little principalities at the Tree, simply because they knew to make the right propitiations to Sundance.

            Believe me, Sundance lost his spidey senses and his firm opposition of stupidity, the day you walked out, Minpin; and don’t forget YOU left. I would’ve said, no can do Puddy, Sundance needs me, I ain’t going no place.

            The blog suffered the loss of you, trust me. And you have suffered, because you clearly cannot read anything that disagrees with your pre conclusions. That is not the critical thinking Minpin I remember. What happened to you?

            • Pontificating is an unbecoming trait, particularly when it comes from the occupied minds of those with the dogma that O’Mara was never in it for George, and he was not looking out for his best interest. Those that could not understand the fact that it was solely and strictly George’s decision on what legal representation he would have, have attempted to deny George that right, and/or credit for any shred of intelligence, and have acted as pompous azzes. Hel1 even George’s family members were called comfortably clueless and naive, simply because they didn’t march in lock step with those attempting to monitor and control George’s legal representation. George has been acquitted, and the credit for that acquittal goes completely to George’s entire legal team, including “all” of the attorney’s, and the staff that without doubt worked their fingers to the bone, lost sleep they will never make up for, suffered the stress, the worry and the death threats which none of us out here in flyover country can even imagine.

              Yes I cringed seeing O’Mara put his arm around the Al Sharpton wannabe named Crump. Yes, I would have preferred not to hear some of the statements O’Mara made in public. However, I do have a clear understanding, and have had all along, that it wasn’t O’Mara’s or anyone else on the legal team’s job to fight the BGI. If anyone honestly believes that O’Mara was or is capable of fighting the nationwide cancer that the BGI represents, then I’ll hand build the soapbox, and provide the bullhorn so that magician can wave the magic wand and see the entire BGI go poof. O’Mara didn’t take on that responsibility, and rightfully so. Was he to have a presser, or go on an interview, and tell Obama and Holder to get the hel1 out of Fla. and mind their own damn business?

              It was the responsibility of O’Mara and the entire legal team to win George’s freedom through an acquittal, and that’s it. Anything else they do on behalf of George is just icing on the cake. Sure it is important to go after Corey’s office, and even Crump if that is in the plans, but as important as that is, it pales in comparison to George having the freedom to drive on a road in Texas, and get a speeding ticket. You can’t get a speeding ticket sitting in a jail cell. Those that believe that the prosecution purposely threw the case, or that they just did this whole thing to please the BGI haven’t paid attention to who Angela Corey and BDLR are and haven proven to be pre-Zimmerman. Corey, and her butt licker Bernie don’t give up, give in, understand rationality or even ethics. They are in it to win it, and having a complicit judge only encourages their bad behavior. Despite the fact that the prosecution and the judge threw every roadblock in their way they still forged ahead and didn’t give up and throw in the towel, as may have happened with those not in it to win it for George.

              As to Sundance, I will never forget a post he did talking about having done some sort of experiment in getting people to follow some as though they were following the pied piper. Jello wasn’t the only one who kissed Sundance’s ring, in order to have the great privilege and honor to post comments on the vaunted CTH website. There are plenty of others who seem to be sleepless just waiting for the next wonderous words of the highly respected and uber wise Sundance. The Pied Piper of the lost souls who seem to lack the ability of critical thinking, and have to depend on the opinions and speculation of others.

              BTW it wasn’t Sundance that caused me to part ways with the TH. Rather it was the matriarch Sharon, the Emily Post who defines what good manners and correct political correctness should be. Don’t you know who I am. Then of course the gang-up team gets called out to add their insults and their sense of being offended that anyone could have the nerve to come through the door of their home and just pee Sharon’s fine oriental rug. Sharon is an overbearing, high falutin’, respect demanding, depressing, there’s no use busy body. That is strictly my opinion, and I own it. I got out of there before the door had a chance to hit me in the azz.

              • BTW Rick, I forgot to add the most important message. The verdict has been rendered, George has been acquitted by a jury of his peers. Move on.

                • “George has been acquitted by a jury of his peers. Move on.”

                  I wish George could move on, but he’s stuck in the hateful world that O’Mara has created for him!

                  Those of you who claim to like O’Mara have no clue how it must feel to be homeless and pursued forever George and family.

                  You mistake their civility and putting up with O’Mara’s crap for approval. It is not. It is exactly as the Castro girls trying to please him in the ten years, in which they had no choice but to live in that house. Think about that!

                  • George is indeed stuck in the world such as it is. That world exists whether or not O’Mara was his lawyer. it existed before that tragic evening in February of last year, and will exist long after.

                    Can it be inferred from your statement that you know what it feels like to be homeless and pursued forever?

                    • Its called empathy, hooson. Try it sometime? Put yourself in the place of another. And stop kissing up to those in power.

                      What did you do the mea culpa, you da man, you da man to Sundance for, when he took you to task for being on O’Mara’s team?

                    • I had a great conversation yesterday with a man currently experiencing homelessness.

                      He said being homeless isn’t a title, it’s an experience. He wanted me to remember that people experiencing homelessness are still people. We tend to call them “homeless” and treat them as less than people.

                      He recalled a hot sunny day a few weeks back and a little girl and her mother came out of a store. He was resting on the sidewalk and the little girl asked her mother who is that mommy? Nobody, she said.

                      He looked at me and kept repeating, Nobody, Nobody, Nobody. I felt so bad for him.

                      He is in his late 30s now. He was raped 3 separate times by 3 different men when he was 14 years old. His mind just shut down and he’s been on the street ever since he was 18. He’s trying to claw his way back to being among us.

                      His name is Gord and he’s a somebody. Does it matter to anyone whether he is black or white?…Me neither.

                  • Rick- Your seething hatred and obsession with Mark O’Mara is more than a little unhealthy, both physically and mentally. No one can carry that heavy burden of hate around with them, coupled with your obvious hatred of the entire black race, and have many or any happy moments. Frankly your obsession with O’Mara, even now after George has been acquitted, is really creepy.

                    • Truth has no hate attached to it, Minpin, it speaks from love. Love for the victims, and a desire to educate those who do not see, so such things will not happen to anyone else.

                      Americans need to think critically. They are at least more aware in Europe.

              • “BTW it wasn’t Sundance that caused me to part ways with the TH. Rather it was the matriarch Sharon, the Emily Post who defines what good manners and correct political correctness should be. Don’t you know who I am. Then of course the gang-up team gets called out to add their insults and their sense of being offended that anyone could have the nerve to come through the door of their home and just pee Sharon’s fine oriental rug. Sharon is an overbearing, high falutin’, respect demanding, depressing, there’s no use busy body. That is strictly my opinion, and I own it. I got out of there before the door had a chance to hit me in the azz.”

                I know that Minpin, remember my first comment to you on D-Man’s blog? Sharon wanted to not use the tchong word, apologizing to some unknown black or liberal poster, and then, you, who never used the word, but were simply standing up for other people’s rights to use it – you were dog piled by the Admins.

                And Puddy asked you to think about something, which sounded suspiciously like they were getting snitch emails from someone about you. And while I was yet contemplating whether I should jump in and help you, you responded, okay Puddy, I’ve thought about it and that’s it. No more Minpin at CTH. I’ve told you before I regret that.

                You have no idea how much I’ve hated them picking on individuals like that. Its always the wrong people they go after.

        • Lol… ” O’Mara and all the O’Mara lovers are the worst types of monsters. While they protect and defend Blacks to the hilt, they could care less for the injustice they are creating for others who have to live in this world”

          Rick I believe it is classless that the WGI not only use whites but minorities to preach to the choir!

          • I hate the way they break the will and desire of immigrants to succeed, by selling them the white society is racist against you crap. And when they are broken and suffer, and mostly from blacks, mind you, guess who the Progs go stand with.

            Progs like O’Mara are serious bassholes. Just listen to all the BS that has come out of his mouth concerning the Martins.

      • I think that MOM did a fairly good job, and to a large extent (with West) a very good job – given the circumstances that he was faced with.

        He started with a good hand, the evidence and law were with him, but he was seated at a very bad table.

        Do you draw a distinction between those who think that MOM did a good job and “O’Mara lovers” whom you describe as the “worst of monsters”?

        • If people don’t get how his personality skirmishes with Bernie, and media speak hurt his client, then I do wish they would all have to walk through George’s shoes sometime or another, to see how important it is to know that someone on the outside sees what you are really going through and not bearing down on the conscience of such unjust men.

          O’Mara should have had the conscience in himself to quit on George. There was nothing he did right, and to say so, takes a true subversion of the human conscience.

          • West was tremendous. He was all about George. I would buy that man a lifetime supply of ice cream and more. West was a God sent, he kept the travesty from getting worse, and kept his mouth shut about O’Mara’s racism and disingenuous nature.

          • “There was nothing he did right”

            Does that suggest that if George’s lawyer was a thumbtack, he still would have been acquitted? 🙂

            O’Mara’s greatest contribution has gone largely unnoticed – defusing a potentially ruinous civil racial confrontation ala the Rodney King aftermath.

            The “scheme team” successfully created a racist narrative to describe the tragedy. The fire was lit.

            Boom, boom, boom, boom. Crump – N. Jackson-Julison, Sharpton, J. Jackson, even the White House.

            MOM’s calm demeanor, not taking the racial bait, partial engagement with the BGI agenda, cautious initial approach, served to blunt the narrative. Slowly, at first, but always steady and consistent.

            The MOM/West efforts considerably defanged the rash ramblings of Crump et al, over time. MOM prevailed where it counted for his client, in the courtroom. Despite the scheme team’s efforts, MOM/West got the prosecution to agree that this was not a race case. So much so, that midway, even the Crump team changed their tone, and Tracy and Sybrina conceded that this was not a race case. Of course, when Crump etal ended up losing, it was back to dusting off the race argument and trying to put it back into play.

            MOM’s initial caution, morphed into calm insistence, clear enunciation of his client’s innocence, and culminated in his closing argument to the jury where he stated, for the first time in his career, that for this case, there should a third option for the jury to vote on – “innocence”, because acquittal was not good enough for George Zimmerman and facts of this case.

            To be sure, could MOM have been surer, quicker, more assertive, attacked on more fronts? Of course. But looking at the totality of what transpired, the political forces at play, he, and all of his team, deserve high marks; not only for what they accomplished, but the manner in which they accomplished it.

            Where others eroded the dignity of the court by their actions, MOM and the team dignified the court and process.

            And in the aftermath, as to the personal threats to George Zimmerman and his family, does anyone think that this after-trial ever present danger to the family would not exist had there been a different lawyer defending GZ?

            • You clearly need your own experience in life, so you can observe and empathize with what George went through with that fool. You’re another one of the Progs who cannibalized the Tree when that opposition was needed to push O’Mara the right way.

              O’Mara had the power to stop and pacify all of it, but he chose to go along with the powers that be. He is clueless, and should have had the conscience to walk away from the case.

              • Well, maybe, I have had some of those experiences in life; and maybe, they form the basis for my initial approach to any of these issues. 🙂

                It doesn’t mean that I am correct, it means that I can have a different assessment of the same set of facts.

                I don’t think that I am “Prog”, but if you give me the definition, maybe I will have to reconsider.

              • Now you claim to be inside George’s head, knowing exactly what he was feeling and thinking at any given moment, and ascribe the shoes George was walking in as to be identical to your own. You have absolutely no ability to speak for George. You are projecting, which is most usually a habit of the “progs” who you also hate. Yes, hate.

                I noticed above also that you have thrown a blanket over the entire black race, and have assigned them all to hell, every last one of them. Apparently you are deeply racist, and refuse to believe that there are blacks in the population that have not bought into the plantation mentality. Last I checked there was wording on each and every daily post that said “Racist comments will not be tolerated, and will be trashed.” Did you miss that Rick. You are acting like a child who acts up, misbehaves and pushes the envelop, just because they can. The cat’s away so the racist mice will play.

                • How do you know I don’t actually know more than you with regards to your first paragraph?

                  I have not made any racist comments on this blog. But you have picked up the prog tendency about pleading that no one throw a blanket over blacks. Why would you refer to them as a race? You are African too if you want to go strictly by race!

                  • How do you know that I don’t know more than you Rick. Remember I didn’t ridicule and mock Mark O’Mara, and quite honestly, he is a really pretty nice, very personable, and a very intelligent guy. O’Mara had, and has no time for the opinions, demands, wants, desires, and speculations of others, he is focused on the legal responsibilities ahead of him with his next move on George’s behalf.

                    O’Mara, West and Beasley have their hands full right now with preparing to decimate the complicit media who defamed and slandered George Zimmerman, a private citizen, not known to anyone before the shooting, made to live a life in hiding, getting continuous death threats, from a bunch of plantation clinging so-called victims.

                    • Minpin, dear, I invite you to come comment on my blog. I think we have taken up enough of Nettles’ hospitality. I don’t know why you guys simply didn’t reply on my thread, instead of insisting on talking here. Come over

              • I am inclined to believe that the discussion about O’Mara’s will not go away. There came a time at the CTH, that I decided to stay on the sidelines. A few people made some awful comments about my doing that even though I thought I had clearly explained my decision. There have been many times when I have changed my mind about things (thankfully) and I often wait until I feel certain I have understood the positions of both sides. For the record, I am still on the sidelines about this issue because some of it seems illogical and some comments are made in anger and are emotionally charged. When I see that I stop, look, listen and proceed with caution.

                You appear to have observed many people who have posted there. I may be asking for trouble but I would like to know your observation of how I dealt with this issue there. You may recall that I was banned three times there and stopped being active when a couple of the mods totally disrespected me for asking a simple question of SD. I only wanted to know his source for what he said about MOM being part of the HOA deal. One of the mods questioned my loyalty and said that I could not be trusted. I had previously been accused of being a troll and a spy by them when I was booted, but SD always let me back in. A few people also emailed him that supported me. At the time, I did not even know what a troll was.

                • Hi Jordan I am up. Do you wanna come over to my place. I don’t wanna take up any more of Nettles blog. We can discuss this over at my place. Don’t forget to copy and paste your comment so I can respond there, okay?

                  I’m making tea. Earl grey okay?

          • I am sorry rick. I just do not see, nor have I ever seen the lack of engaging MSM as hurting GZ. Look even Thomas Jefferson and Abe Lincoln knew what they had to do for social ideologies in their modern day racial issues. I think once you look at it in a socipolitical ideology instead of conservative vs. liberal you then undertstand what to expose and why. Not how. Some things will change and other things never will. My purpose is not to make it equal but instead fair.

      • I agree with Coreshift. Rick Sundance Madigan, you wrote a load of bullshit worthy of a Trayvonite Trophy.

        You show little respect for your readers and the rest of us when you pretend to be someone else online. Only you go on and on and on about Mark O’Mara. The rest of us have our opinions about the work he did. Some very favorable, some somewhat favorable, some very annoyed and some down right rude.

        I have a very favorable opinion of the work Mark O’Mara did in the case. Everyone already knows that, I won’t bore you with it again. I’m pleased to have supported the defense team that worked tiredlessly to bring about a not guilty verdict for George Zimmerman.

        What I found intolerable, was the comments at the treehouse about Mr. O’Mara that would have only made getting a not guilty verdict for George possible. It seemed to me, Sundance went out of his way to destroy Mr. O’Mara’s credibility and as he was the spokesperson for George, who needed credibility in his case this I saw as very dangerous to my goal of fighting against the political railroad. Without a doubt, it negatively impacted the donations and their ability to fight back.

        Sundance, you had me leaning towards an unfavourable opinion of Mr. O’Mara last July. I had found his initial comments about George and the case luke-warm at best. I groaned, as some others did with some earlier comments. Then I read about how politically correct he may be and would he have what it takes to go after a Judge who he may have to try cases in front of in the future.

        I researched that and found charity event pictures where judges and lawyers smiled and socialized with each other and thought, man, George is screwed.

        Then came the Petition for Writ to get Judge Lester taken off the bench when he refused to recuse. After that, there is no one who can convince me that Mark O’Mara did anything but what was in the best interest of George Zimmerman.

        When I see personal insults in someone’s framing of an argument, I discount the argument entirely. Rick, it is your political beliefs that get in the way of acknowledging what Mark O’Mara did. You made some really stupid allegations with no proof (ie: O’Mara got a HOA settlement for the Martins w/o GZ’s acknowlegement).

        The criminal case is over and I don’t care what others think of Mr. O’Mara. Look at the facts and decide for yourself. This bathwater is getting really old.

        • Well said, Nettles.

          This O’Mara bashing is sophomoric as heck. Good grief, he took the most racially-charged criminal case in my memory and won. Period. West is also an extraordinary lawyer (and human being) and GZ is blessed with a legal duo that has more intellectual firepower than seems possible. O’Mara and West not only enjoy the good cop/bad cop dynamic, but – as I’ve said many times – are playing chess while their opponents plod along at checkers.

          This case is also not over, so those who judge O’Mara’s motives and strategies are likely myopic. When all the trials are complete and then folks want to do a little Monday-morning quarterbacking, then good for them… These tend to be the same sort of loud-mouths who blather on about how they would have thrown a pass or what play they would have called – all from the convenience of their recliners. Pitiful. Put them out on the field in the heat of the game and they’d curl up and start crying.

          Great work Messrs. O’Mara and West! Bravo!

          • These tend to be the same sort of loud-mouths who blather on about how they would have thrown a pass or what play they would have called – all from the convenience of their recliners

            That’s exactly how it always seemed to me, too. People wanting the attorneys, in court and out, to always be verbally and vehemently bashing the opposition – because it would have made them feel good in the moment, but woudn’t have helped George.

        • “You show little respect for your readers and the rest of us when you pretend to be someone else online.”

          I show more respect for my readers by telling the truth, because I care about justice to the true victims, those unable to speak for themselves. I am not about supporting liars in power, nor am I impressed by their power.

          And please do go on thinking I am Sundance. False labels don’t bother me none.

          But if you truly want to fight the political railroad, Nettles, you need to open your mind and see O’Mara for the traitor he is and always has been. It was Sundance’s famous threads criticizing him that kept O’Mara in line. And to be honest, I wish Sundance had been harder than he was. He’s way too nice, if anything!

        • “I agree with Coreshift. Rick Sundance Madigan, you wrote a load of bullshit worthy of a Trayvonite Trophy.”

          “When I see personal insults in someone’s framing of an argument, I discount the argument entirely. Rick . . . ”

          [shouting] YESSS!!! We love you Nettles . . . tell it like it is, girl!


          Gotta love that Scroll Down feature: notice a particularly toxic ID, avoid the POS and jus’ keep on scrollin’ down.

          Works for me.

          • Speaking of toxicity ~

            But note that several forum contributors have familiar monikers, although they could easily be forgeries.
            Note especially the posts of one “TreeHouseBot”:


            Article Headlines from CTH are lifted and linked verbatim, ad nauseum.

            This was posted by “VidBot” on 07-13-2013, 06:11 AM ~

            “Mark O’Mara On CNN During Jury Deliberations – Begins To Remove His Mask…..

            ….. If there was one source of continuous*animosity toward this site over the past 12 months it would honestly be defined around Mark O’Mara.** You see, once we discovered his lies and then watched his excuses, we just got to … Continue reading →

            Click here to read more from Conservative Treehouse”

            • I have never even heard of this site. I did not check any posts and would not unless someone I trusted referred to one and explained what it was. I know hate sites exist for blacks and whites but I do not view them as helpful in curing our disease. Race against race sounds like war to me.

  4. http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/05/festival-of-short-plays-inspired-by-trayvon-martin-case/?_r=0

    Festival of Short Plays Inspired by Trayvon Martin Case

    “The playwrights are Latino, white, Middle Eastern, Asian-American and black,” Mr. Adkins said Monday in announcing the project. It is called “Facing Our Truth: Ten-Minute Plays on Trayvon, Race and Privilege.” It was inspired, he said, by the debates and nationwide protests that greeted George Zimmerman’s July 13 acquittal in the killing of Mr. Martin, a unarmed black teenager. Mr. Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer in Sanford, Fla., claimed that he killed Mr. Martin, 17, in self-defense.”

    I wonder how much real “Facing Our Truth” will be covered in these plays. I tend to think it will be more like “Avoiding Our Truth and Blaming Others”.

  5. Sounds to me like they’re trying to make sure the media is uncomfortable about asking them the tough questions.

    The poor woman needs to be left alone. She’s grieving. /sarcasm

    • More anecdotal evidence that the worm has turned! Sybrina whining about the media? Cry me a river. Sounds like she’s learning that media love to build someone up, only to then tear them down. Tear away! Please. (I’ll send some Kleenex…)

      • I read about her comments yesterday. Apparently, Daryl Parks spoke up quickly to tell the press thanks b/c without them they couldn’t have got the word out.

        These comments were made at the National Black Journalist gathering last week.

        The family said they wouldn’t be taking questions and were going to speak about the foundation only.

  6. “Its called empathy, hooson. Try it sometime? Put yourself in the place of another. And stop kissing up to those in power.

    What did you do the mea culpa, you da man, you da man to Sundance for, when he took you to task for being on O’Mara’s team?”

    Rick –

    I don’t know what goes on in the minds of commenters, whether on this blog or elsewhere. I don’t know their motivations. What I do is listen to the arguments and asserted facts and see what adds up and what doesn’t. If the facts add up, I am less interested in the fact-provider’s motivation. If the facts don’t add up, as with the case of Mr. Crump’s entire position, then motivation provides a possible explanation.

    The opinions I share are sincerely held, as I assume are yours. They are based on the prism of my experiences and my evaluation of the subject matter at hand.

    In the above referenced reply, you imply quite strongly that I have no empathy and that I am motivated by a desire to kiss up to those in power. Now, you could be right, I could be the least emphatic person in the world, and/or practiced devotee of kissing to whomever is in power. Or, I could be far more empathetic than most and/or a pain in the rear to those in power. Or somewhere in between.

    But what does it have to do with the discussion of the facts of this case, the handling of the case by Mr. O’Mara. You don’t know, and you have no way of knowing so why throw that into the discussion?

    Sundance deserves to be complimented when he does something good. If I complemented him, then he deserved it.

    Sundance and some others at CTH assumed (erroneously) that I must be tied somehow to O’Mara because of the opinions I expressed that countered some of the criticisms made there about O’Mara. Their assumptions were wrong and are wrong, as are yours when you imply things about me that are not true, and that you can’t know anyway.


  7. Ebony ‘Trayvon’ Covers: The Martins, Spike Lee, Boris Kodjoe, Dwyane Wade & Their Sons For September Issue (PHOTOS)

    Ebony magazine is doing its part to honor the life of Trayvon Martin; to keep the conversation about race in America alive; and to explore “Stand Your Ground” laws with a special edition of its September issue.

    The publication is rolling out four separate covers with the headline “We Are Trayvon,” featuring the slain teenager’s family, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin with their son Jahvaris Fulton, as well as director Spike Lee and his son Jackson, actor Boris Kodjoe and his son Nicolas and NBA star Dwyane Wade with his sons Zaire and Zion, all wearing grey hoodies.


      • The whole debate about the SYG laws is ridiculous and a waste of time and resources. I had checked the FBI stats and those of Florida and SYG, justifiable homicides are static and have been for 10 years. I remember reading an article on the Tampa Bay Times that proclaimed that justifiable homicides had increased by over 30% from the year before. Wow, you would think that is a large increase. When you look at the numbers it went from 22 to 28 the previous year. The year before when nobody was making a fuzz about it was 29, so it had gone down and then it went back up. Compared to the homicide rate those years 1017, 985 and 987.

    • Seriously, how on earth could anyone believe that this will improve race relations? It is damn good evidence that the BGI will never change.

    • Why didn’t they put all Trayvon’s other half siblings on the cover? Aren’t they Trayvon too? I guess they would’ve needed a bigger cover. Really…seriously…when is someone going to come forward and expose this hoax.

      • OBAMA: “We all know that young AA men disproportionately, uh, have involvement in criminal activities and violence.”

        But then he goes on to say that we need to have laws in place to prevent violent encounters like we saw on the night of 2/26…

        That’d be great if he was even remotely talking about enacting laws that prevented parents from (or at least held parents accountable for) allowing their out of control ‘children’ to roam the streets at night committing acts of violence and vice…

        Sadly, though, his support and sympathies still lie with the assailant and the assailant’s family… just once I would like to see Obama show the least bit of sympathy or support for the actual victims here, George Zimmerman and his family.

        • I believe what is even a sader state of affairs is that by the POTUS supporting such a stance is that black parents knowing full well they do not live such a life as these black elitists, it is the youth who continue to suffer the affects of the lack of accountability. All Americans should be concerned about how black elitists propaganda surrounding what happened to TM affects all youth and all walks of American society. In the end though I believe it benefits all of us the POTUS has made helped raise tne political scale of this. Here is why.

          There politically are many issues connected to why he got involved. This administration has failed blacks. Many people including blacks new the main reason why Obama was elected. His color. Blacks and Hispanics expected to no longer be 2nd class citizens upon his election. Stupid is as stupid does. All this did was divide races further because whites basically said, ” Great. No you all have no excuses.” Anyone who resorted to this line of thinking and trust me many Americans had, were disappointed when nothing changed racevrelations. So this administration moved to the only thing they know. Civil Rights. It all was an unspoken subject since 2008. Dems. played a bad card and Republicans well, they did not plan for the worst, and resorted to hoping for the best.

          There is change. Change has happened do not get me wrong. There are many Conservative blacks and Latinos coming out and speaking. Politically things are changing. Racially things are changing but not how anyone anticipated it. You just have to really pay attention.

          The youth are being mislead with these black elitists political propaganda. Divisiveness is not helping anyone. Americans are seeing it. Do not be discouraged.

        • “That’d be great if he was even remotely talking about enacting laws that prevented parents from (or at least held parents accountable for) allowing their out of control ‘children’ to roam the streets at night committing acts of violence and vice…”

          Unfortunately for many of these same young black youths government is their parent. How do you pass a law to hold yourself accountable? That is part of the problem for black youths, the government has taken the role of parent, but it is an absentee parent and it only shows up to give you gifts or discipline you.

          As an absentee parent it may know of the issue but it does not know how to handle them, so it becomes caught up on diversionary issues, like the SYG laws, that will do absolutely jack for those that are under their care, but it is an easy target. The kids say see my father cares and then everyone goes on doing the things that brought the need for the law in the first place. Pathetic.

          • The law would have to apply to everyone. What kind of law do you think should be proposed to deal with this?

          • This topic is one I discuss frequently because I advocate for children and parental rights. I would never support more gov. intervention in private lives. Never. It is an easy way to let gov. conduct fishing expeditions into how good parents raise their kids. There are provisions already for dead beat parents the issue is that 1. It is abused 2. Overused 3. Corrupt. The only way to make anyone accountable is through education, community support, and through volunteer work. Money and laws are frequently mismanaged. We must hold everyone accountable. It takes a village to raise a child.

            • It takes the right kind of village, that has been an issue in the black community. Kids left alone will find common ground but then parents interfere.

              It does not matter the way I see it the SYG laws opposition is nothing more than an attack on gun rights. What is the use of having a gun if you can’t even defend yourself or your property. Defeating SYG is just one step on banning or restricting gun laws.

              • Perhaps I am a little to hopeful bori. I was raised on one side of the tracks and ended up in another the latter part of my teens after my grandmotherbdied and my Pop remarried. So I do suppose I had a choice in the life I could lead. But we all do. In the end it is all a state of mind. I too could have made quick money, joined a gang, or ended up in jail. I had 0 supervision. No father figure.
                The issue with blacks is it is not society who destroys their outlook on society but their own kind who continue to subvert their capabilities and opportunities. It is as if they accept it and the only way they are taught to succeed is to either avoid jail, or screw the system. But system was set up by their own kind! It is easier for a black not to succeed because if he/she does, other blacks call them too white, and to convince whites they are capable brings a two fold hardship! In the end it is much easier to be underestimated then it is to succeed.

                • A little personal story, back when I was teenager the Housing complex that I live in, was controlled by drug dealers. More than once I was forced to be a look out for them. I was not paid or involved in any other way but they would force us to stay on the street corners and yell “Coca Cola” when uniform cops were approaching and “7 up” when the TNT (tactical narcotics unit) was coming. It was part of growing up in that village. Kids who tried to refuse were beaten and worse, if they failed at their job they knew they would be trouble, so we did it. Luckily for me there were always plenty of volunteers, kids that wanted to join them. The next step was carrier and later dealer themselves too many kids that I knew had that aspiration.

                  When I started dating my wife, I saw that all blacks did not grow up under the same circumstances, many grew up in working class families and were not involved in that type of shenanigans. I also saw that the neighborhoods they lived were markedly different, and they did tolerate that type of foolishness around them. My point being that while it may take a village, the right kid of village is needed.

                  Unfortunately, too often those blacks and their families don’t speak enough against, what their other family members are doing. It is this quiet acquiescence that needs to stop. But too often those that are supposed to be their spokesperson are re-directing the message to other things so it maintains the issue unaddressed. I could not tell you the countless conversations that I have had on this subject with my wife’s cousins and father in law. But all seem convinced that someone else will address it and fixed it. Truly sad and infuriating.

                  • Hey bori, Tis why we know what we know. You and I lived a very similiar life. Survival. I know what you are saying. Understand what was done was done. We had no choice. Today we can say we lived to know the difference. We know what we know and that means something for yours and mine at least. That a beginning to the end we need. Pass it forward. One at a time.

                • I would include, as an important contributing factor, the well-meaning but corrosive long term effect of government policies instituted by the political class which subsidize social behavior damaging to society as a whole

                  • True. History shows we must be careful what we ask for. So well intentioned but many take for granted because they believe the result could be the court system. As you have seen it is overused and abused. There is no innocence before proven guilt. The gov. can at time not only remove but restrict parental rights based upon “risks”. Most times those risks are said to be that a parent refuses to follow nannyateate rules. State to State differs but federally the more kids with IEPs, the more kids diagnosed as mentally ill, the more “domestic violence,(which can simply be frequent family discord) the need for services families are unaware are available on their own. Family courts can not handle any more. Kids suffer. Families suffer. There are already laws created that need fixing. Do not add anymore.

                    • dannywarrior – you make many good points. As someone that spent my career working in special ed, it was heartbreaking to see the abuse of many of those children. Sometimes a parent would bring their “special needs child” to school loaded or drunk, the child might have cigarette burns on them, bruises, obvious signs of abuse & sadly many of the abnormalities were caused by “fetal alcohol syndrome” & crack/meth.

                      We’d take photos of the child & call CPS, they’d come out & write a report,
                      sometimes, the parent was forced into drug re-hab for 30 days, THEN, CPS gladly handed the children back to the abuser with no days of sobriety documented. Some of the parent’s were excellent parent’s, but MANY MANY were not & the children, imo, should have been permanently removed from the home & placed with other family members of foster care. The children do suffer.

                      You make a good point, ENFORCE the laws we have, it seems social services only makes minimal efforts to protect the children due to some laws that need to be revised or changed but somethings gotta give for the sake of the innocent.

                    • Arttart I so pay attention to your post as you are involved in the same area as I. I believe this is what drew most of this group together here at Nettles place ( I like to call it this). I am her #1 fan for a long time now, if you all did not know! It appears many of us here have experiences in a wide array of social areas… be it if it was planned or not. The thing is here Nettles is like Mother goose…allowing the chicks to run wild. She is so anarchy ….. I find it funny when people are afraid to come here Lol. Her fear was having to mod if you can believe it!
                      Told you Nettles the best Warriors can do it on their own. Thanks for the freedom. You are the best! MyLlittle lib/prog. from Canada…whoduthunk?

                    • Danny- I am replying to your comment here as this is the only place where a reply button exists on this particular discussion.

                      Here is a hint Danny, every family has their dysfunctions. Everyone has the tolerated uncle on Thanksgiving or Christmas. Every family has their stories, every family, I promise you has their own stories, and or excuses for specific family members behavior. Trayvon Martin had a dysfunctional family, yet he is honored and applauded by some, NO?

                      Allow me to preface my comment with the fact that I was unaware, and quite disappointed that some seem to desire this blog to become a “political” blog, of late, with their statements about the way things should be according to their own political beliefs and philosophy. If that is the case that this is going to turn into a political blog, with those expressing their own personal political philosophy, I’m outta here. If I am not mistaken, there were people who supported George of every political stripe. Isn’t that why this became a watering hole for those aghast at the CTH, and the Diwataman’s blog who had no more intention than to slam the GZ legal team? SD repeatedly tried to make the GZ support about the progs and the other than progs. I guess he figured out somehow that O’Mara was a “prog.”

                      Danny, you are not special, you aren’t the only one with a life story. We all have a life story. Every single one of us have a life story.

                      Back in 1950 my mother got pregnant with me. I already had a sister who is 13 months older than me. My mother knew she had made a mistake in marrying the guy that she got pregnant with before marriage when she came in from picking apples in the orchard to sell, and the father and his mother had my 8-9 month old sister on the “potty” for a potty training session.

                      My mother left, and rode the bus back to my grandmother’s when she was 8 months pregant with me. Long story short, she did everying in her power to abort me, short of getting a back alley abortion. I survived.

                      When I was born, I didn’t even have a name until my Aunt named me Sandra. I stayed in the hospital for 2 months because of my mother’s abortion attempts. No hair, no finger or toenails, underdeveloped kidneys.

                      My mother had a nasty, but well deserved reputation in a small town in Pa. as being “loose.” My grandmother raised me and my sister, as my mother was “preoccupied” and the father took off to join the Peace Corp in order to save the world. Never met him until I looked him up when I was well into my twenties. Trash I tell you, trash. The town knew everyone and everything about everyone. I was looked at with sympathy by some, and was tagged as someone who would never amount to anything. I cannot tell you how that “village” as you like to call it, had me and my sister pegged as losers that would never amount to a hill of beans.

                      I left the state after high school graduation, and so did my sister. We both worked our way through college. We both grew out of the small town mentality, the loser mentality, and the mentality that tagged us as white trash. Is that really the “it takes a village mentality that you are supporting.” Have you been stolen by those that put you in that mindset?

                      My mother went into the hospital about midnight on New Year’s eve 2000. My step father went into the hospital 10 days later. I worked my fingers to the bone to get my Mom into an assisted living facility back there. I worked my fingers to the bone to get my step-dad into a skilled nursing facility. They were set in their ways, so to speak, and refused to come and live with my husband and I. My step dad died on July 7, 2000. My mother died on July 13, 2001. I drove over 4 hrs. twice a week to be with them both, and to see that they were taken care of properly. I did that every single week for a little over a year. I know what it is like to care about the elderly parents. I forgave my mother. I am here and alive. She provided a roof over my head, food to eat, and clothing on my back. I was thankful for that.

                      Your story is not unique Danny.

                      BTW, please read up on history, not revisionist history. It was in fact the Democrats that started the KKK and the Jim Crow laws. I know the Democrat party tries very very hard to bury that part od history, because it doesn’t follow their current day narrative. We sure do know all about narratives. Don’t we?

                    • Yes, we all have a story to tell. Yours is poignant and compelling. I see nothing wrong with sharing our life experiences. I notice that all who do that have one thing in common. They are all survivors and were determined to improve their lot in life without outside help. There is a bond among us in spite of our differences.

                    • pinecone,
                      I think you must have misread my contributions to the discussion. I never claimed to be special. I do not share experiences to have anyone feel sorry for me. I apologize if that is what I am appearing to be doing. That is not my intention. I understand everyone has dysfunction in their family. Even more reason to discuss such things, no? Especially if we are discussing the causes of why some people have reacted to this case as they have?
                      I am more philosophical then I am political when it comes to discussing lessons in life. Sharing experiences helps point out there are no excuses, IMO.

                      Quite a few of us here have shared our personal lives on other blogs and I apologize if you feel I am being inappropriate by bringing it to Nettles or if it gets interpreted as attempting to be “special.” Some of us have grown quite close since last year. Some us have interacted through many different blogs…some very political, some with strict blogs rules, and some with very liberal rules. Some who invite few, and some who invite many. I am at loss where you see I have made any one particular political view ….especially here.

                      I also apoligize if I have brought some of my private life into my support for GZ as you believe is unwarranted. I apologize my Mother suddenly became ill and died during the George Zimmerman case. It caused my absence. Due to my support I felt an obligation to share what caused it. However, I have not discussed any of it since. Perhaps others have opened up to me since then because we can relate. I do not feel that it affects threads or compels anyone to feel obligated to relate to those who do share personal experiences, which do not appear to be of any political affiliation, as per your demands. If anything I feel it is the most nondivisive way to approach politics.
                      Also,understand, you yourself have your own personal reasons for your supporting the cause. I respect them. I ask you respect mine. Possibly it is the reason you decided to leave the TH and come here because you were not free to speak openly or perhaps you expect extreepers to act in a teehouse manner? You threaten to leave here because people CAN speak freely here or they can not? I am confused. l suppose you have demanded a level of respect on how you prefer you personally are represented by joining here. I am not here to represent you. If you make demands from me about how I should represent your politics or lack of representing politics then what makes you believe you are any better then what you accuse me of? I am confused in what your demands of me are? Either you want diversity or uou do not?

                      Also. I did mention Jim Crow laws to bori. Forgive me. Sometimes when I speak to bori I do not eleborate. It would be preaching to the choir. He and I process philosophy through things we do not say more so then things we do. If you had paid attention to the full discussion you would see what you assumed I did not mention was mentioned in far fewer words as nessessary to its intended purpose.

                      Again, I apologize if I had offended you by being a little more personable then usual on discussions ON Topic. In the future I will try my best to not be whatever it is you are asking for. In the future if you have a need to direct these types of personal comments to me, you can email me @ danny0warrior@gmail.com or contact me through my own blog by clicking my name

              • Well bori I pay no attention to its attempt to restrict gun rights. A good political debate would be how Jim Crow laws took 2nd amendment rights away from blacks. So are the black elites saying blacks are dangerous with guns? Are they saying blacks are inherantly violent? Are they claiming blacks are 2nd class citizens?

                • Too often that is exactly what they are saying, blacks are too violent or unable to exercise the right to bear arms in a responsible manner. I know that not to be the truth, but it is something implied so often that it has become accepted as the truth.

                    • Sometimes it is well-meaning as Hooson1 said but the message that gets through is the opposite of the one intended. You can’t always say you are inferior, even without any intention and then expect them to excel. It just does not work way.

                    • Well laws were created to punish at a time. And we mustremember the US was built on a very clear two party vs. h that included the federalist party upon the onstitutions creation. For that I do not believe the Constitution is fluid. We needed the Consitution to prote t the people. A republic best suited the world. So when one invades the other that is where moral law suffices ….or fhel. There are some who believe Gov. still is there to protect and in the beginning of America it was to create a division of us and other rulers in the not so freeworld. When those same people divided and we had a civil war. The purpose of Gov. is for the republic of one nation which is we the people and the needs of the people. Not the Gov.

                • Danny- No where in my comment did I ever refer to your personal stories about the tough time you were going through with your mother’s illness. No where. In fact in the past I posted my well wishes for you, and said that I understood the hard times that people go through when their elderly parents become ill.

                  When I said you are not special, you can read again where I said that every family has their dysfunctions, and dysfunctional relatives. I was referring your revelations that you had no father figure when you were growing up. My intent was that everyone has the ability to rise above those crappy childhood times. Look at Dr. Ben Carson’s life story. Mother left with him and his brother when she found out his father had another secret wife and family on the other side of town. They didn’t have much of anything, and he grew up in an inner city situation where he could easily have joined a gang, but rather he joined the library. He has succeeded beyond most imagines despite not having the best of childhood situations or opportunities. People only become victims of their circumstances if they allow themselves to become victims. I despise when defense attorney’s try to claim victimhood for their serial murderers claiming they had a bad childhood, as though that is valid reason to kill people.

                  You had brought up that it was the Jim Crow laws that denied blacks their second amendment rights. Yes the Jim Crow laws were anti black, but they were instituted by the southern Democrats that were aghast at blacks being treated as human equals. It was the southern democrats that started the KKK. It was the democrats in the south that wanted to keep slavery alive and ongoing. It is the modern day liberals that do everything in their power to keep the black population on the plantation they built for them. It is the modern liberals that keep people like Rachel Jontel in her hood, and at 19 not able to read cursive writing. She (or her mother)has money to buy booze, drugs and a gun though. Absolutely there are people who are in need of financial help, and I promise you I agree with that, but, you only exacerbate the problems when you simply throw money at something, not as a hand up but as a hand out. That disincentivizes anyone from making some serious efforts to work their own way into a better situation for themselves. Heck there is a mentally challenged guy that has worked at our local grocery store for more than a decade, and he is very proud to be earning his own keep, or at least part of it.

                  My message Danny was that whatever happens to a majority of people in life is based on their own decisions. People only become victims of most circumstances if they allow themselves to be a victim. Trayvon Martin was in fact a victim of Tracy and Sybrina, but he willingly was buying into the gig.

                  • Are you done ranting and raving?
                    Read the context of WHY I mentioned not having a father before you get your panties in a bunch. Geez!

                    • Let me clear up this whole Jim Crow thing for ya pinecone. I stated I was not concerned about BGIs argument about SYG concerning gun rights, if they apply civil rights to the debate. Because the debate there could then be Jim Crow for the very reason you mentioned. Are they now stating that through civil rights arguments that blacks are violent ? See, justifable use of deadly force, or self defense does not have anything to do with SYG. Seperate law, seperate issue.
                      Yet, BGI is directing people to debate the issue under black civil rights acting as though it is NOT gun control when it is indeed just that and furthermore they are looking to disarm people based on their belief SYG kills black people! Is that not a violation of the equal protection clause? Especially since BGI is inadvertently agreeing to the fact blacks are violent at a higher rate! In the end that is what they are saying.

          • boricuafudd – your comment reminded me of an article I read last night about New York. The article stated the street culture of gangs have taken over after dark in NY, the gangs roam the streets searching for kids under 18 yrs. old to force into gangs. A sad commentary for parents having to keep kids inside for fear of roving gangs, just trying to keep them safe. Detroit has been taken over by gangs as well as deadly Chicago.

            Rahm Emanuel, former Obama Administration, the mayor & the “god father” of Chicago has been unable to do anything to improve the safety of innocent victims, Chicago is presently one of the deadliest cities in America. The “God father” thought he had ALL the answers just like his mentor Obama for the crime ridden city but it has ONLY gotten worse, it is also important to note OBAMA’s stomping grounds & district was Chicago..

            In addition to Detroit going bankrupt, I think Chicago is predicted to be next. Obama couldn’t CLEAN up his stomping grounds nor Detroit, Obama, imo, is a blow hard that has DONE NOTHING to prevent young black men from murdering other young black men & stray bullets killing innocent bystanders. Obama, imo, just jumps on the latest thing covered in the news, Trayvon Martin is NOTHING compared to ALL the victims murdered daily in Detroit & Chicago but TM served his purpose to Obama, he was a distraction.

            Where’s Obama’s out rage & solutions for the suffering daily in Chicago & Detroit?

              • boricuafudd – I read up thread & caught your comment, excellent, you share your unique experiences with us!

                + INFINITY boricuafudd!

                I too have worked with some of the finest black people as well as other ethnic groups in the school system, we were all on the same team & considered our selves a “family.” We were NOT divided in our efforts to work with children reaching their potential & we all all shared family values & the hopes we had for our own children.

                I do really pity those living in Chicago & Detroit because of the violence, the gang violence seems to be building momentum.

                • It’s a culture war in a sense. I was around in NY when Rap which turned in Hip Hop and Thug culture took over. I still remember how it was romanticized by the media and it still is. People like Russell Simmons who have become multimillionaires promoting a lifestyle that is killing our youth, because it is not just blacks that are being affected.

                  But anytime that some of the issues are brought out they are castigated for heresy. Look what happened to Don Lemmons, Crosby and others. Too many in the black community are so proud of their contribution to society that they will defend it to no end, while ignoring the adverse effect is has had on their communities.

      • It seems like Obama is walking it back a bit and virtually admitted that TM violently assaulted GZ. He also admitted there is a problem with crime and violence among young black males. After that he made absolutely no sense. He talked about “fostering better understanding” and “making sure we don’t have laws in place that encourage the kind of violent encounter we saw there that resulted in tragedy”. We don’t have laws in place that encourage people to violently assault others. It’s illegal and people have a right to defend themselves. My brain hurts.

        • I don’t think the president walked it back. He added context that was left out of his first public reaction to the GZ/TM tragedy. This is context that should have been included the first time around. This was a topic that the WH wanted to get out there last night.

        • I agree with coreshift.
          The fostering better understanding comment is surrounded by something my community has endorsed for well over 20 years. It is called “bridging the gap.” That Obama was a community organizer I believe this is what he is refrencing to. It would make sense only if he does not plan on creating another part of federal administration but instead promotes communities to bridge the gap on their own through already provided services and people who volunteer. Bridging the gap brings youth on youth and adults and youth to better understand each other. Be it in the community, schools, it is an interactive community learning tool that involves various people in the community to involve oneself in the community.

          • I am more liberal mided when it comes to community social issues. However conservatively responsible on how we use our resources. I am conservative in the family aspect however understand society has changed on what defines family. My grandparents rasied me so… Socially and economically I can understand why some parents just can not be there. There are numerous issues that cause it. Drug addiction, mental ilness, job loss, education, teen pregnancy, homlessness….. No one law can fix it all. In fact no law at all will ever fix these issues.

        • I suspect he’s referring to Stand Your Ground laws; I’ve heard people on tv saying it encourages violence. Of course, we here all know that SYG wasn’t a part of the GZ case, but no one with a public platform, other than MOM, is in any hurry to make that distincton.

  8. “Coreshift reminds me of Jello. I wondered if they are the same? I think not, but they are often similiar.”

    LOL No, I’m not Jello. Believe me, SD and Co wouldn’t like me no matter how nice I was to them. I’ve tried it.

    • No good ever comes from playing nice with SD and crew. Geez you would have to compromise yourself something fierce. There are a$$kissers and there are those of us who refuse to a$$kiss. Lol

  9. Nettles,
    Do you remember a guy who posted on GZ legal teams FB page when it was open who showed up late at night who was critical of the defense team and claimed to be an excop and currently an EMS who was out of work and alwyas traveled? He was banned like many times and came back under many names while being banned. We always caught who he was. What was his name. He had an avatar in uniform.

          • Well, thank You. I wondered about him. Lol
            Allow me to apologize in advance. I will be responding to pinecones comment to me down thread. I had wished if there was something personal pinecone had issue with he/she would have emailed me. Especially since this is something discussed about other blogs on this very thread. As always I intend on being respectful and have no interest in continuing on after replying. There is no reason anyone should feel uncomfortable here.

            • No troubles.

              I didn’t know you posted on the legal’s facebook site. You didn’t post at the treehouse did you?

              I don’t recall seeing you until Diwataman’s blog. Did you post on facebook using your real profile?

              Did you go over to Ark’s page after legal shut their site down on Aug. 22nd?

              • I never had a FB that identified me. For saftey purposes. I posted at the TH way back maybe a handful of times, but always used a different SN, until I was blocked last June when they jumped the shark.
                After the FB there was no reason that I felt to discuss the case until discovery was released. I lurked at many blogs and lurking was fine by me because they had most areas covered. That was of course till it became a bash MOM fest and it appeared to affect the funds. The rest is history.

                • I posted the entire time using my real profile. I’m not sure that was a wise idea but then again it didn’t really cause too much harm.

                  The one and only time I really questioned it was when my nieces got messaged through facebook. Had I used a fake account that would have been harder to do.

                  Although, using my real profile left no challenge in finding me. My work was contacted but a couple of calls didn’t hurt anything really. The charity I helped out got tweeted but thankfully they know me real well and were well aware of what I was doing in support of Mr. Zimmerman.

                  If I had to do it over again, I think I would use my real profile again.

                  • I suppose it is a preference. I would rather make it more difficult for those prone to violence finding me.

                    • My theory was if I didn’t offer a challenge they’d move on to someone who did.

                      What fun is it to find out who Annette Elaine Kelly is if she posts as Annette Elaine Kelly?

                  • I prefer to make it more difficult for those prone to violence finding me Nettles. You are braver then I!

  10. Look what leatherturds latest status is We are in serious financial trouble and we need your immediate help. Donations have dropped precipitously since the Zimmerman trial ended and we cannot pay our bills. Our power will be shut off in 8 days.

    Please help.


      • Okay, I’m done with Leatherman now. Seeing his name took me down memory lane and I went looking thru some stuff I had saved waaaay back. Just went off on a tangent I guess.
        Leatherman: Just so y’all know, I am planning on using the Zimmerman case to teach the basics of Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Evidence, Trial Advocacy, Forensics and Wrongful Convictions. I have taught these subjects in law school and, of course, you know about my backround: 30 years experience in state and federal courts as a felony criminal defense lawyer specializing in death penalty defense and forensics.

        He taught business law 2006 – 2007 at the now defunct Barkley Law School. Apparently he was lukewarm at it.


        • What is sad in a way is that some of Leatherman’s supporters really believed that giving money to him would help cure what they were convinced was an injustice. I spoke briefly with an old retiree from England who would send Leatherman money out of monthly pension, she had a blog herself about flowers and gardening.

          In one of her messages she was lamenting her economic situation but she was going to send money to Leatherman to correct the injustice that was occurring. I tried to engage her in a conversation but she kept referring to TM as that sweet 13 year-old. I sent her current pictures and she would say they were photoshopped, finally I just gave up. There were many others but her case stayed in my mind.

          People like Leatherman are the lowest of the low, they know they are taking advantage of people who are vulnerable and need company even if it is through a computer screen.

          • That is so sad. Poor gal. At least you tried, so kudos. Did you find yourself a bit frustrated?
            I just don’t get it, at all. I suppose it’s the sheep mentality? I guess some like to sit back and be spoon-fed ….sorta like watching the “news” and believing (AND acting upon) all that is told them…..no discernment………….lazy.
            Other than being on the same page as Leatherman, in this matter, I wonder why in the heck she feels he is deserving of her money.

            Don’t throw eggs at me but, simply because all I know about the OJ case is what I heard on news and in court, I hold no opinion. There are scenarios out there that could be plausible imo. Should I duck now 😯

            Now back to this gal……. With Georges case where an abundance of hard facts are out there in PLAIN sight for anyone who is interested in truth. Very scary for sure. Look what Hitler was able to accomplish.

            From your comment: “…she was going to send money to Leatherman to correct the injustice that was occurring.” Now that just blows me away–money to Leatherman will assuage ‘injustice’– just how does that work? Maybe she has inhaled a bit too much fertilizer?

            I’ve never read leatherman but for a line or two here and there and when I glance at the comments I go straight into headache mode and run away but apparently there are those who hang on every word.

            100% on your last sentence!

            • She truly believed that Leatherman was exposing the truth of the case, yes evidence was there but it was being view through the distorted lenses that Leatherman provided.

              For a brief moment I felt really a sense of helplessness, she was a well intended lady, from our conversations it was obvious that her interactions with blacks was minimal and she had the feeling that all Americans were discriminating against them. Sad and hopeless, she could not open her eyes.

    • Booking photo. Caveat I’m assuming it is the same Rachel. The pic looks like the others I’ve seen of her.

      0 0.0 0.0 38783 50230 TAMPERING WITH PHYSICAL EVIDENCE

      0 0.0 0.0 38784 02108 OPER MTR VEH U/INFLU ALC/DRUGS/ETC. .08 – 1ST OFF

      Rachel Leatherman – Arrested on 2008-05-23
      Rachel Leatherman – Arrested on 2008-10-22
      Rachel Leatherman – Arrested on 2008-01-23
      Rachel Leatherman – Arrested on 2008-05-28

    • Here’s a supposed lawyer over at Huff Po who is suggesting that Zimmerman should be charged with a federal hate crime arguing ‘implicit bias’ … or in other words: he’s guilty because he’s subconsciously racist, he just doesn’t know it.

      And she seems to be completely serious… 😯

      I just want to know where this current crop of ignorant lawyers is coming from… did they institute no-child-left-behind policies in our universities and bar associations now? Is there some fraudulent school out there selling law degrees?

      How could someone make it through a reputable law school, let alone pass the bar exam, and not know or understand that the basic legal principle of mens rea requires conscious criminal intent…?!


          • sure enough.

            I am surrounded by social justice engineers out here in SF bay area. and this near travesty against GZ has me at odds with nearly everyone.

            • I’m finding that too. I’m not convinced it’s politics in my case.

              I find those who got their ‘facts” from the media have formed opinions that aren’t willing to change.

              Those who took some time and went to the internet and read the discovery the State and Defense put out have an understanding of the facts that closer align to my understanding.

              Someone on one of these blogs wrote the truth takes time. Journalists don’t have the budget they need for the time so we get a surface story, not much digging.

              It boggles my mind about how much attention this case got yet so much is still unreported and due to Martin family hiding and lying, remains largely unknown.

              • Every thing boggles my mind lately, I think I have a chronic headache. On top of that my heart aches deeply, I have a younger brother stricken with Parkinson disease early in life, so now in his mid 40s he is in advanced PD, it is horrific. He needed shoulder surgery from ripping the rotator ligament pushing himself off the bed when he was stuck, basically unable to make his muscles react, so my sis and I just did post surgery care taking.

                Today in Oakland gang shooting killed a 20 year old father and his 1 year old, they were shot while sleeping, the bullets shot through the walls of the house. The city is up in arms about it, more hand-wringing. I have concluded the conservatives are right, liberals get more upset over racism, real or perceived, than violent crime.

                • I’m also very sorry to read you are dealing with Parkinson’s. One of my family members struggled with it for several years. He passed last year.

                  Be sure to take time for yourself. One can get overwhelmed quite quickly. I’ll send prayers your way for strength and courage to get you through this.

                  • My prayers. It must be a very stressful time right now. Many here have experience with being caretakers. We are here for you. Keep us posted. PS. Hope none of us get our heads chewed off for mentioning such private issues we can relate too.

                • cassandra, my prayers go out to you & your family. Your brother is so young to be challenged by such a debilitating disease, he is so blessed that you & your sister have stepped up to comfort & nurse him. The shoulder surgery your brother just went through is terribly painful, I can’t imagine he has that challenge on top of Parkinson’s. I know Micheal J Fox was diagnosed at an early age of Parkinson, yet I too know there are several different types. I hope medication can help control the disease, PLEASE keep us informed.

                  • MJ Fox has been spared some of the toughest parts of the disease, he is not burdened with the cognitive, behavioral, and anxiety disorders associated with the disease and of course he has plenty of money.

                    My bro was diagnosed when he was 37, by the time the tremors shows up about 90% of the substantia nigra, the dopamine delivery system in the brain is dead.

                    Levadopa makes it possible to move, but his on/offs are more debilitating now. Parkinson is called the suffering disease, I think of it as the slow death, the brain dying.

                    thanks for the support, the whole crisis has been very challenging for us. My bro can be a tough person to deal with. Being so young, and have cognitive degeneration creates serious conflicts for him, with a tendency to compensate with denial. For several years I put his needs in front of my family or mine. I moved him up here close to us and slowly put together his new life as a disabled person, establishing disability benefits, housing, medical care and a balance of autonomy and care as required. As he worsens and dementia and psychosis developed ( a result of the disease and side effects from the required meds) he turned on me, and was abusive, not uncommon with neuro-degenerative brain disorder. Now he is back asking for help because of the surgery. It was challenging to re-enter his life after no contact for a couple of years. I was heartbroken when he violated my trust after 5 years of dedication to his needs. But he really needs us, so we do what our family values taught us, look out for one another no matter what. Life sure challenges us sometimes, but hey, my sister is AWESOME and so hardworking and good.

                    I truly appreciate the support from my Free GZ allies.

              • I’ve heard that, too, that journalists don’t have the budget to investigate the truth. I don’t buy it as an excuse, though. When people want to get ahead in their job or even to get better at their job, they put in time on their own – whether to study to know more, or to spend extra time trying to figure out a solution to something – it blows me away not a single mainstream media person could take the extra time to investigate if even just for hedonistic reasons, like maybe winning an award.

                Or maybe they did know the truth and didn’t have the backbone to go against the narrative.

                • It didn’t take much time at all to uncover a mountain of lie and inconsistencies in what the Martins were telling police and the public.

                  I suspect the editorial narrative drove the story more so than giving reporters a few hours to source the story.

                • As for “journalists” it all depends on what you mean by journalists.

                  The mass media is not a monolith. It is made up individuals, each with their own ambitions, constraints, obligations, duties and agendas. At the same time, this conglomeration of individuals and interests can act as a mob, in terms of psychology.

                  The media mob psychology was at work in the coverage of the GZ/TM tragedy. The false Crump narrative was the bait. People like Julison make a living exploiting this characteristic of the media mob.

                  But at the outset, the media has one agenda. That agenda is that it be noticed – that it sells newspapers, that it gets viewership, that it gets hits on its webpages.

              • YOU: It boggles my mind

                It boggles many minds.. America has changed. I think of this site as the way we used to be: self moderating.

      • What happens when your are a civil rights lawyer and don’t have the overt racism that use to exists anymore? Well you make everything out to be racism. Oprah-did not recognize me and served me fast enough, racism. Obama- Old frail lady in the elevator clutches her purse-racism. City of Seattle-Can’t use the term brown bag-racism. All over- can’t pass the tests because you never studied or pay attention-racism. Mortgages- Can’t get a loan or the loan has a higher interest rate, because you have a history of not paying or staying in a job-racism. Employment- Employer won’t hire because you just got out of jail for stealing from you previous employer-racism.

        Meanwhile those that follow the rules, work hard, study and make something of themselves are saddle with the comparison of those that abuse the system and have cheerleaders as Ms. Patterson to speak up for them and defend them at every turn.

            • Listening to Obama talk about women clutching their purses and Rachel’s classmate thinking that all white students use the ‘n’ word as religiously as her classmates use the term ‘cracker’…

              …it’s kind of an eye opener. We’ve never really had a discussion on a national level about how minorities view caucasians, and apparently stereotypes are just as prevalent.

              The one that really sticks in my craw is the urban myth of ‘white privilege’ … this just reeks of somebody whose only experience with white folks is watching Beverly Hills 90210. If somebody had walked into my high school back in the day and mentioned anything so absurd, the entire hispanic/black/white student body would have laughed out loud and said, “What, those five white privileged kids over there at the Ritchie Rich table?” Other than that small handful of privileged kids, the rest of us were in the exact same financial boat… our parents all worked side-by-side either in the military, on the farms, or at one of the numerous plants in the area.

              • That narrative is pretty entrenched. Most people don’t even know that most poor people are white, even though it makes sense, as most people in the US are white (not Asian, not black).

      • You want to know how it is done, they shave points. They get credit for just writing and answer even if it does not make legal sense or addresses the issue. They lower the bar and if all that fail, they use use a quota system.

        When I was working for the Federal government and new openings for promotion became available, you could read how you could get extra points for different things. Minority +5 points, veteran +5, during wartime+10, women +5, .5 point for answering the question, etc. At the end of the day those chosen did not merit the promotion in many cases, just happened to be the right PC candidate.

    • Wow.. so the parents are cooperating with our government to find some little previously unknown item aka loophole.. in the law that will allow them to prosecute George again after many months of inquiry found nothing? You know what?.. It’s this sort of thing that will be the spark to provoke violence. There is a limit to how much we can endure without totally compromising or abandoning our principles. IMO, that line has been crossed.

    • Stuff like this video make me think that if they (someone, I don’t know who) would just put those parents on the defensive, they’d go crawl back under their rocks. Someone said once that they suspected that the reason the father so quickly contacted an attorney (sister in law?) is because he was worried about being in trouble for not supervising the kid. More and more that feels sensible to me. So if somehow someone investigated and publicized the truth of his being at that lodge meeting an hour away when his thrice suspended, troubled kid was running loose, that would get them on the defensive. Or getting the truth out there about who his “real” mother was and his living situation. A civil suit against them for not supervising him would do that, but no one is going to sue the “grieving parents”. Somehow they have to be put on the defensive, where they belong. This continuing attempt to convict him of racism is just going too far – they’re going to millk this as long as they can, with no evidence. Meanwhile, George and his family have to continue to hide, feel anxiety and fear, and have their lives on hold. These people (the parents, the media, black activists/attorneys like in this video) have no shame.

      • IMO, it will not work by exposing the truth piecemeal.

        Our best chance is a full length factual documentary even it requires several parts as happened with some of Ken Burns work. If it is bold, daring and made to captivate the attention of the majority of Americans so that it is discussed in the work place as happened with Roots, then we might can get back on track. Is any network brave enough to do that? I visualize huge profits for the one that does it. Maybe I am out of touch with reality but that is my true perspective and hope.

  11. Zimmerman Attorney: NAACP-Pushed ‘Trayvon’s Law’ Probably Wouldn’t Have Changed Anything

    The NAACP-proposed package of legal reforms dubbed “Trayvon’s Law” – in reaction to Trayvon Martin’s February 2012 death – would explicitly prohibit racial profiling by police, codify “best practices” for neighborhood watchmen and repeal “stand your ground” laws.

    But if these recommendations were law before Martin was shot, would they have changed anything?

    “The quick answer is no,” says attorney Mark O’Mara, the public face of George Zimmerman’s defense team.

    “George’s case was not a ‘stand your ground’ case, but rather a traditional self-defense case where he reacted to force likely to cause great bodily injury, where he did not have an opportunity to retreat,” O’Mara told U.S. News.

    Zimmerman had a concealed carry license for the handgun used to shoot Martin. He “was not on ‘patrol’ as a [neighborhood watch] person, as he was heading to Target and was lawfully carrying his concealed weapon,” O’Mara said.

    The NAACP proposal would outlaw racial profiling by police and suggests that neighborhood watch volunteers receive anti-profiling training. The relevance of these proposals to the case is also disputed by O’Mara.

    “There is absolutely no evidence that George racially profiled Trayvon Martin,” according to O’Mara. “Rather all evidence gathered by the FBI and local law enforcement shows that George was affirmatively non-racist.”

    More…. http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/08/07/zimmerman-attorney-naacp-pushed-trayvons-law-probably-wouldnt-have-changed-anything

        • It’s about time, isn’t it? It’s about time George was reframed to be as he really is. I was so glad that the defense team pointed out at trial that it’s a good thing to want to be a cop. People are trying to make the world be upside down, that being a cop is bad, being neighborhood watch is bad, protecting your life is bad. It’s like they’re tryng to pretend that street rules/thug life/underclass life – whatever it would be called – is normal, and basic long-standing norms are wrong. As Don Lemon said, his parents taught him in kindergarten to dress appropriately, be respectful, etc. Now it’s racist to EXPECT anything of people.

          • I also appreciated Mr. O’Mara pointing out during Voir Dire that George’s life is equally as important as any other life.

            That because Trayvon was black and 17 didn’t make his life more valuable than George’s or a white man of 54 or a man of 74. Every life matters.

            Something I had to remind those around me when they wanted me to focus on souls closer to home. Every soul matters and George didn’t have a whole lot of advocates who felt safe speaking out for him. He deserved to have more but it was too dangerous for a time. It should never have gotten that far.

            Ben Crump took every grievance he knew of in the black community and he exploited them. He knew they’d be angry with the lies he crafted but it got bigger than he expected and looked at closer than he meant for it to. All the same, the lies went on so long with little said from GZ side until his arrest that a lot of the damage done, sadly, became permanent.

      • ROTFLMAO! I rechecked that Dman thread. Now, let me mention even Stella came over WITH Rick. Either rick has pull @ CTH or it is as you say. And what rick is pulling on his blog? Why would an SD a$$kisser be so offended by you believing he is SD?
        I believe you got an email. I had gotten an anon email awhile back as well but it was about another mole.

  12. “Where did George Zimmerman go while he was being tracked by a satellite as he awaited trial in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin?

    To Target to buy flowers for his wife, to a giant sporting goods store in Lake Mary that has a huge selection of firearms — although he did not go into that department — and to his lawyer’s office more than 100 times.”


    • WOW, now that’s real investigative reporting…NOT. How about reporting on the action’s of Trayvon in the months before February 26th, even the week before would be a start…maybe the events surrounding his bus ride to Sanford. Why not check with the MDSP and see what he was up to in school. Or the whereabouts of Tracy Martin or Chad the night of February 26.

    • Well now that the OS has time to do these little follow-up stories, maybe they might be curious enough to find out what happened to the ping logs.

      • I have mentioned factual documentaries before as a means to “undo” and correct what MSM has done since the actual shooting, If any media outlet, has a moral obligation to do that, then it’s the Sentinel. They were and still are the worst of the worst. I also think it would be money maker for them if they made it multi-part ongoing series.

        Back in the good old days, serial articles were an often-used tool to attract and keep people subscribing to the paper.

  13. Nice deal for $ybrina:




    Document Type: (D) Deed Transfers of Real Property Record Date : 12/17/2012 9:22:44 AM Grantor: BROWARD COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT MUNAWAR,SOHAIL Grantee: FULTON,SYBRINA D Book Type: O Book / Page: 49333 / 1816 # of Pages: 1 Consideration: 29,000.00 Legal: SUNSET LAKES PLAT THREE 170-140 B LOT X34 Case Number: COWE-11-011756 Parcel Id: Property Appraiser – 513936025250 Property Tax Record – 513936025250

  14. Request for help at RT. I am again locked out and cannot get in without an invitation. Any suggestions as to how to find rumpole?

    • If Tracy stays in the public eye much longer, people are going to get a real good impression of what he was teaching Trayvon.

      When you look at pictures before the shooting, you will be hard-pressed to find him pictured with white people.

      I’ve read ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3045359/posts ) the only white reporter at the rally following the verdict on July 20th was hasseled by “protectors” of Tracy. He had his notebook seized for a time and he live tweeted about it.

      @newbysmiley tweeted that he was accused of taking down Tracy’s licence plate as he was leaving.

      He also said Tracy was leaving the rally while Rep. Wilson was talking.

      It was this incident with Tracy and this reporter that likely led to Sybrina’s comments at the Black Journalists gathering about not answering questions without lawyers and being accosted by reporters and to respect their space.

      I saw a video of a reporter asking Tracy that same day (July 20th) if his son was suspended for assaulting a school teacher and Tracy said he couldn’t confirm that.

      It wouldn’t surprise me if David Smiley was the reporter who asked and later got man-handled by Tracy’s body guards supplied by the Rev. Victor Curry.

      David Smiley also tweeted that Rep. Wilson told the crowd gathered that what GZ did was 1st degree murder in her book. I don’t recall seeing much printed about that. Quite a serious comment to make by a government official and no one called her out on it.

      You’ll note the PR people were with Sybrina in New York this day and Tracy was in Miami. Sounds like they best stay together as a group.

      • Here is the video asking about Trayvon’s suspension. It was shot at the July 20th Miami rally to protest George’s acquittal.

        Here is the tweet about Rep.Wilson’s comments to the crowd at the rally.

        What gripped me as entirely sad, was to learn a 10 year old boy at the rally was being told by his parents that white people will judge you based on your skin color. Wow!

          • Naturally, Tracy lies all the time. Anyone who works in the schools knows that it is not uncommon to hear young black kids expose the racist hate their parents teach them. Once I intervened with 1st graders arguing at the lunch table to learn that the angry black kid was told by his mom that white girls stink. I asked him if that was true and he admitted that white girls don’t smell bad. The poor kid could not literally understand the racist messaging his mom was directing.

  15. “Mark Russell, whose nearly three years as editor of the Orlando Sentinel were marked by coverage of the Trayvon Martin case and the hazing death of a marching band member at Florida A&M University, was ousted Wednesday in a reorganization that eliminated his job.”


    The story as told by the Association of National Black Journalists

  16. Students go back to school with ‘Trayvon Martin dialogues’

    Middle and high school students in San Diego, California will be encouraged to vent their frustration that the world lacks justice when they return to school and participate in the “Trayvon Martin dialogues” this fall.

    The board of San Diego Unified Schools unanimously approved a proposal recently to establish classroom forums to discuss the death of Trayvon Martin, a black teenager who was shot during an altercation with a Hispanic man, George Zimmerman, in Florida last year. A jury recently acquitted Zimmerman, who claimed that Martin struck first and shot him in self-defense.

    The sponsors of San Diego’s Trayvon Martin dialogues, however, believe the resolution of the case has produced in teenagers “feelings of fear, anger, and skepticism that they will live in a just society,” according to The College Fix.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/09/students-go-back-to-school-with-trayvon-martin-dialogues/

  17. sheesh! Why did I post that (4:12)! Nettles, I hope you are around……I’d like to ask you to remove it please. I don’t want to “promote” that kind of nonsense!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks in advance.

  18. George Zimmerman trial cost Seminole $91K, county says

    “While the exact costs are still being recorded, Seminole County Government response to the trial, including all support and logistics, is estimated at $ 91,000,” Harris said in Friday’s statement.

    Last month, the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office released a preliminary estimate of its trial costs: about $320,000, including “overtime, equipment, other trial-related expenses.” The cost of sequestering the Zimmerman jury was estimated at an additional $33,000, also according to the Sheriff’s Office.


  19. I apologize to those who get email alerts when posts go on here. I’m having trouble posting Michael Mortimer’s youtube videos of Don West’s interview with Channel 13 last week. I’ll try again later. Sorry for the trouble.

    • Nettles… We have discussed this before. ANYONE who receives email alerts through Yahoo, will never see links posted at the end of the comment. So we have to go to the blog and wade through, sometimes hundreds of comments, to find the correct one and get the link or the vid.

      We receive comments in the order they were posted and they are rarely at the end of the blog. If someone posts a reply to a comment that was posted a day or so ago or even a few hours ago, as often happens, you might imagine the time involved. Sometimes I reply by asking for the link when I cannot find it so I am guessing that some posters may think I am being a nuisance or dumb as hell.

      It is one reason why I have hinted at starting a new thread when a certain number of comments have been posted or to have pages on the case, as rumpole had done, with a limit as to when a new page is started.

        • That is your decision and it should not be influenced MY issues with how comments come in to me in Yahoo email. If there a lot of others, then they should speak up but no one has, I suspect some of us do not bother to search the comment and find the vid or url, and just move on to the next comment.

          It is aggravating but the solution lies with Yahoo or Word Press, not you. I no longer have this issue with other WP sites. Yours is the only that does not include vids or urls when they are at the end of an email. I had quit bringing all of this up until you made a comment about a urll not posting. I am not compalning, just keeping you informed.

          • Thanks for the feedback. You are a regular and valued contributor here.

            I’ll endeavor not to allow the posts go over 200 before starting a new thread. I’m sure each week, this will get less and less until we all move on to other things.

            Look for a new thread at midnight and thanks again for the heads up.

            • There actually is something you can do. Ask word press why this happens. Why are links not visible to your members in Yahoo email when the links are at the end of a comment? They might not even know this occurs.

    • Nettles – I would like to see a break down on all this. We still don’t know the final figure Reich/Owens were paid. Too, there were 4 State Attorney’s working on this case, Corey/BDLR both make $ 150,000.00 each per year, I don’t know what Guy/Man?? makes but that would be a sizable amount, it could have already been added but I doubt it.

    • I seriously doubt that this includes all of the state’s costs; investigations, interviews, collecting and cataloging evidence. depos, airfare, hotel rooms, living expenses for the prosecutors.. I could go on and on. I would not believe anything unless I saw an audited accounting, item by item, of what this cost them.

      I would also love to the see the itemized list of the money spent by the defense.

      Weren’t a lot of these details released in the Casey case?

      • jordan2222 ~ KC’s murder investigation and trial cost taxpayers almost $700,000, based on tallies from the major agencies involved in the case. That doesn’t include the cost to taxpayers after KC was declared “indigent,” her defense team had spent $ 325,000.00 BEFORE she was declared indigent. KC’s trial was longer & the investigation alone took over a year, 6 months to even discover Caylee’s remains.

        In KC’s case, the single largest bill was $293,123 from the Orange County Sheriff’s Office. Even that includes only costs of the criminal investigation division from the time Caylee’s grandmother reported her missing to the discovery five months later of her remains.

        jordan2222 ~ KC’s case was so much more complex, her case involved dogged investigations by many agencies due to the circumstances of the murder, lots of DNA/forensic, LOTS of experts involved for the State, tons of depositions, LOTS of costly ground searches by LE looking for Caylee’s remains, & there was no crime scene. The case alone involved over 10,000 pages of discovery from both sides.

        The biggest difference is imo, in GZ’s case is there was a crime scene & the event took place within a small area. LE knew who shot TM, there wasn’t a lot of DNA involving many experts so the cost sounds about right imo for GZ’s trial. GZ’s case was not expensive comparing it to other high profile cases where there are so many unknowns, such as Phil Spector’s, the Billingsly Murders out of Miami, Adam Kaufman’s trial which was in Miami, & John Goodman’s trial in Fla. which is going to be retried due to a stealth juror discovered after his trial. ALL those cases had a lot of forensic/DNA & circumstantial evidence, GZ’s did not.

        GZ’s case wasn’t as complicated as most cases are that are high profile, I think the figure is believable & accurate in the investigation. GZ’s case wasn’t complex due to the total lack of evidence imo, it’s easy to see why this case didn’t cost nearly as much as most cases do, had there been any real evidence, the case would have cost a lot more.

        • One of the reasons I questioned this is that MOM said it would cost over a million dollars to defend George. I figured if that was true, then surely the state would spend more because he often mentioned that the state had unlimited resources and he could not properly defend George. IDK. There is time limit for George to ask for immunity and thus be entitled to recover the costs of his defense, so we anxiously await that. I cannot imagine George letting that chance expire. Immunity, IMO, is as close to innocent as will ever happen for him. I think it is even more significant than not guilty.

  20. I posted the link to this interview late on Sunday night last week from Channel 13. Now thanks to Michael Mortimer, he has put it on youtube. Thanks again Mr. West for your awesome effort on behalf of Mr. Zimmerman.

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