Home » Uncategorized » August 21, 2013

August 21, 2013

Captain revised the PSA video adding some facts presented at the trial.

photo-shellie-zimmerman-dismissal-hearingReminder: Shellie’s docket sounding is today (Aug 21st). Kelly Sims waived her appearance. Let’s hope to hear the prosecutors have decided not to pursue charges.


297 thoughts on “August 21, 2013

  1. I would love it if the Zimmerman’s legal sagas were over with today with dismissing Shellie’s case but, Corey is the kind of person who digs in deeper no matter how wrong she is.

  2. Will $ybrina ever stop?

    Trayvon Martin’s mother pays tribute to son in hip hop song

    HOLLYWOOD, Fla. (WSVN) — The mother of Trayvon Martin lent her spoken vocals to a new released hip hop single that she hopes will offer solace to families affected by gun violence.

    The latest chapter in Sybrina Fulton’s journey following the February 2012 shooting death of her son comes in the form of “Joy Comes in the Morning,” a song by Christian hip hop artist T.D.O.G.G. for which she recorded several spoken lines at the Hot-105 studios in Hollywood.

    “My name is Sybrina Fulton, and I’m Trayvon Martin’s mother,” begins her brief audio monologue in the single. “I want you to know that we serve a God with no boundaries and no limits.”

    More with video… http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21011475150459/trayvon-martin-s-mother-pays-tribute-to-son-in-hip-hop-song

    • Is she heading to Oklahoma to give a copy to the girlfriend of the Australian baseball player? How about to Georgia to give a copy to the baby who was shot in the face family? Trayvon was NOT killed because of gun violence, he was killed because he assaulted George. He was killed because of “thug” violence.

      • CCG – I don’t exepct Sybrina nor Crump NOR the NAACP to even acknowledge the Oklahoma baseball player that was shot in the back as he jogged by 2 Black kids BECAUSE THEY WERE BORED & that’s only after they have killed animals that day. The 3rd kid was white & was an “accessory” as he drove the car. (I know you are being sarcastic!) ne of the POS’s was videoed “dancing in the booking tape.” What scumbags,

        This case REALLY PISSES me off, senseless violence & murder, because the group is 17 or younger, I assume they won’t be subjected to the death penalty.

  3. Shellies attys. deferred todays hearing. Instead a status hearing on the upcoming trial will be held next week. Unsure what day the hearing is though.

  4. Recall on June 1st, the prosecutors gave the Judge a misleading transcript of what Shellie testified to. You’ll note a court reporter is one of the witnesses expected at her trial. Here to refresh is a Michael Mortimer production reminding us of Judge Lester recommending this charge against Shellie based on what the prosecutors told him.

  5. Sybrina isn’t the ONLY person that trademarked a loved one’s name or sloganslogans, etc., Cindy Anthony also trademarked Caylee’s as well as Martin Luther King trademarked his OWN SPEECH!

    The “I have a dream speech belongs to the heirs of MLK” & is trademarked. CBS used part of the speech in a telecast, long story short, they had to PAY the King family $ 10,000.00.

    From the article:
    Various excerpts and remixes of “I Have a Dream” can still be used under fair use laws. However, any recorded versions are hard to come by. At thekingcenter.org, the family’s website, video and audio recordings of the speech ARE AVAILABLE FOR SALE. The King family will retain copyright privileges of the speech until 2038, seventy years after King’s death.


    Sybrina has learned from those that have gone before her, Dr. Kings family, continue to profit from Dr. King.

    • Nettles, I thought something similar about the cell phone tower fire :-)… but maybe it’s a sign from a higher authority who doesn’t approve of all the lies still being perpetuated about an innocent man defending himself from a vicious attack. The disgusting PSA is nothing but a sham and the only purpose it will serve is to funnel more $ from ignorant believers to all the Martin so-called “foundations” IMHO.

  6. A great recap here of the history of how race got reported in the Zimmerman case and how juxtaposed the reporting is to the Christopher Lane shooting and its reporting on race. It’s been so confusing, some argue about the race of the 3 teens.

    “Reporting on a news conference held by Martin’s family and attorney, Benjamin Crump, on March 8, 2012, The Orlando Sentinel was first to identify a racial element to the case.”


  7. I was thinking about future job prospects for GZ & SZ recently. I was thinking, at least in my State, La., there is such a need for “Spanish Interpreters for children” in the school system, especially the youngest children. I was reading an article which stated in California, 1 out of 10 Physicians don’t have the ability to test children ages 2 to 6 yrs. old for “autism spectrum disorder” which, imo, needs desperately to be diagnosed by that age for intervention & needed resources for the child. The language barrier is a huge problem in many states.

    GZ too may be able to find employment working from home doing specialized computer work, he’s a smart guy, hopefully something materializes for him.

  8. Coreshift noticed tweeters acting like the Zimmerman trial is currently going on a few days ago. What’s up with that? Check out these tweets made today!




    • Anderson Cooper did a decent job in covering the killing in Oklahoma today (at 8:00 p.m. EDT). He brought up the twitter and facebook accounts of the three individuals. This is quite important and links in the unanswered aspects of Trayvon Martin.

      Recall that the Trayvon’s self-portrait as revealed in his social media postings is quite different that being portrayed by Sybrina Fulton to this day. The media is starting to catch on as to relevance of social media postings towards identifying potential deadly behavior.

      If we are to believe BDLR, Corey and the rest of the prosecution team, however, these social media postings should irrelevant in any upcoming trial of the murderers of Christopher Lane.

      If we are to believe Rev. Sharpton, any discussion of these social media postings is an unwarranted attack on the character of the three arrestees.

  9. Former Black Republican Representative from Fla. LASHES out at OBAMA! Who will Obama identify with now?

    On the heels of news that three Oklahoma teens allegedly shot and killed an Australian jogger for sport, former Florida Republican Rep. Allen West lashed out at President Obama and the “race industry crew.”

    “‘We were bored & decided to kill somebody.’ 3 black teens shoot white jogger.Who will POTUS identify w/this time?” West tweeted Tuesday afternoon with a link to a New York Post article on the matter.


    Calling it as he sees it, he is absolutely correct, WHAT has Obama got to say about the brutal, senseless murder?

    • The taxpayers of Florida should be outraged over this egregious waste of taxpayer dollars. The citizens should be calling for Angela Corey’s law licese as well as everyone else in that state atty’s office that participated in the railroading of GZ. Hel1 even the blacks hate Corey now because she wasn’t able to hand them George’s head on a stick to parade around the streets of Fla. I keep going back to Alan Dershowitz saying in the beginning that Corey, and everyone attached to the case over promised on something they would never be able to deliver. It only added to the incitment of the mob.

      • pineone – You are spot on, Alan Dershowitz had Corey’s number since GZ was charged & hye predicted the demise of Corey. AD was absolutely correct about everything he said about Corey & low & behold, the photos of a bloody & beaten GZ materialized 11 months later, only after MOTIONS forcing the State Prosecutors to release them to the Defense. Dershowitz said Corey was in possession of those photos when she drew up her charging document & the Judge should have seen the photos.

        Dershowitz also said “GZ’s Civil Rights have been violated,” and “GZ should sue Corey for calling him a murderer on National TV.” I hope MOM/West put Corey in her place along with 2 pending law suits against her office, ANOTHER one from the Defense would be sweet.

        SURELY someone will step up to run against Corey, SURELY there is a competent & honest attorney that will step up hopefully & challenge the corrupt skank exposing her negligence & show what Corey has cost her district.

  10. Nettles, aka oracle, I humbly request your memory.

    Do you or anybody else here recall the rachel jeantel interview where the word “she” slips out as in “she” was on the phone with tray that night?


  11. I can’t understand WHY it took hours for an ambulance to get to Chris Lane. It doesn’t make sense, from the article,. 911 & ambulance were called at 2:45 by a lady that stopped to check on Chris, she stated he was shot in the back & turning blue. At 6:47 an ambulance pulls up to render aid, it was too late. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN? WHY did it take hours?

    These young thugs idolized gangs, gang violence, & their making gang signs in the pictures. imo, this is a bigger problem than guns, imo, these thugs would have stoned Chris to death or cut him with a knife had they not had a gun, they were hell bent on entertaining themselves by taking the life of an innocent. The article said the young men were ALL RACIST & HATED WHITE PEOPLE according to their face book entries.

    This action by these thugs have put a damper on the TM movement exposing racism at its worst. Chris Lane was a kid that was doing good things, everything right, TM was not, Sybrina needs, imo, to give a lot of thought to what has happened to this innocent young man.

    Donald Trumps twitter message:
    Why isn’t mainstream media all over this like Trayvon Martin story?
    Will there be justice for Chris Lane?


  12. Sundance has the O’Mara bug up his ass again. He’s saying (again) that MOM knew how much was in GZ’s paypal account and instructed GZ to lie about it.. It’s absurd on its face when you consider that MOM, who makes $400 an hour (~$800,000 a year), would risk his license for a new client by doing such a thing. It’s not MOM’s money that would be used for the bond. Why would he care? Besides, IIRC, GZ spoke with someone in a jail call about keeping how much money he had from MOM.

    By his evident vendetta full of lies against MOM it seems SD is F*ing over Shellie now. Same as he did with GZ.

    • I’d be surprised if anyone is giving Sundance credibility on the issue of Mr. O’Mara. Too many accusation with nothing to back it up.

      Here is the phone call where it sounds like GZ is telling his brother-in-law (Ken/Scott) he (George) told O’Mara about the “37”. Again, I think this tells Ken/Scott the identity of the pay pal account he is talking about as there were at least 3 accounts in existence then. 1 set up by George and 2 set up by his friends. Ken asks did you tell him the “volume” and George answers no. They agree to keep that information to themselves.

      [audio src="http://www.axiomamnesia.com/Audio/Zimmerman-Jail-Calls/Trayvon-Martin-New-Evidence/21-30/George-Zimmerman-ShellieZimmerman-Jail-Call-04-14-2012_124939.mp3" /]

      • Do you remember way back when SD claimed that he had knowledge that it was a common practice for defense atty’s to tell their clients that if they had any means, such as relatives that were willing to pay for part or all of the defense expenses, to not do so. They would then file for indigent status and get reimbursed from the state for costs, and then the relative or whoever could pay for the atty’s fees. It went something like that.

        SD is hung up on the indigent status form that he claims O’Mara had completed. If O’Mara did have that form, I would think he would have turned it over to the court on the day of the first bond hearing. To my knowledge he did not. In that first bond hearing the paypal account was brought up by BDLR. He knew about it because of having the jailhouse tapes, and having access to the Zimmerman’s bank records. . Did O’Mara hear any of those jailhouse tapes before that hearing? Had he gotten any banking info. from the Zimmerman’s accounts? BDLR walked over to O’Mara after the first bond hearing and asked him “what about the paypal account” and O’Mara replied “I haven’t had a chance to look into that yet.” He very well may not have. He was new on the case, was working on getting the first judge to recuse herself, and still had clients he had to represent from prior to taking the GZ case. I don’t walk to knock George but, it’s possible that he hadn’t told O’Mara about the paypal account, or how much money was in it. Possibly George told O’Mara about the paypal account but left O’Mara with the impression that there wasn’t any significant amount of money collected.

        When George started the paypal account, a day or so before he was arrested, he said that the money would be used for his personal expenses, and for his defense expenses. I believe he and Shellie paid off some debts with some of the money. I don’t think there is anything illegal about that. People sent donations knowing he was going to use some of the funds for his personal expenses. People ask for donations for all sorts of things like medical bills, funeral expenses, and anything you can think of. There is nothing illegal about that. That is likely why even Lester didn’t know how much say he had over the paypal account. It was a concerted effort on the part of the prosecution to break the bank for the Zimmerman’s so they couldn’t pay for a proper defense. Had George had to depend on a state appointed atty. I’m not so sure the outcome would have been in his favor.

        • @minpin – It’s not an indigent status form. It is a required financial affidavit for a bond hearing. You must list your assets and incomes for a bond determination. (millionaires get higher bonds than poor folks, for the same infraction – it’s based on your financial disclosure forms – totally different thing)

          Filing for indigence is a totally different thing – I’ve never once brought up any mention of filing for indigence.

          George did absolutely nothing wrong, unethical, or illegal in his expenditures of the donations prior to O’Mara. That also has never been a contention. He set up the PayPal account 4 days prior to his arrest April 11th.

          • Then what is your contention about MOM and the paypal account? That he told his client not to list what he did not know he had?

            • Obviously not, that would be silly. Did you read the post?

              Mark O’Mara, knew about the PayPal,…. Robert Jr. personally told him about the account. O’Mara told George and Shellie not to include the PayPal account on their financial disclosure forms. Robert then said to O’Mara “are you sure that’s not going to become a problem because we have this money”.

              O’Mara told RZjr and George and Shellie not to worry about it. The Zimmerman’s were conflicted because they thought it should have been included in the information given to the judge, but they did not want to challenge O’Mara and what he was telling them – but they knew it did not feel right.

              After the whole thing blew up, RZJr. flew immediately back to Orlando and confronted O’Mara with an I told you so. He was quite upset. GZ and SZ let O’Mara know they were more than happy at the time also. And they never let him forget it.

                  • And all these “friends” the Zimmermans have posting on CTH and WP…..please ask them for me why they never advised the Zimmermans to not to just add the paypal money onto the form against MOMs advice? Why are they not kicking themselves in the ass for NOT advising their friends? In this case it was better safe then sorry, and after all GZ allowed his atty. to misrepresent the truth…..

                    • Oh, now you want them to have gone against the advice of their attorney.?

                      O’mara was planning to have the state underwrite the cost of his defense. That was why he said not to include the amount in the financial affidavit. Obviously, his own screw up led to him not having that ability. but he could not blame George for his own mistake in that regard.

              • So let me get this straight, because now is the time to do so. RZjr. told you Sundance, that *prior* to the bond hearing he, GZ and SG contacted MOM & told him about the amount in the paypal account and MOM says “it dont matter.” Not only did it not matter but he told them not to add it to the disclosure form to the court for bond?
                That is kind of funny. Because GZ & SG had access to that money on

                The Personal website was set up on April 9. MOM hired between 10th & 11th. GZ arrested and in jail on April 11th. Bond hearing April 20 where BDLR questions SZ about the account and the amount. She stated RZjr. knew, Lester never said “get him on the phone.”
                There is evidence GZ, SZ, and GZs sister moved money out of GZs account, into SZs & GZs sisters account betwen April 16-19 (the last occuring the day prior to the bond hearing). On April 24(the day after GZ posts bond) SZ transfered something like $84-85,000 back into GZs account.
                GZ posts bond on April 23. Personal Website disabled April 24. April 27, MOM discloses GZ raised $200,000 on personal website. Lester rules that he will not rule on the website account until he recieves more info.,including the genesis of the account, and who owned it. MOM stated on the record that he was unaware of the account *during the bond hearing* & it was disclosed to him two days prior ( April 25, the day *after the personal website was closed, & the day after all money was back into GZs account) Also this day the GZLegaldefense website is opened.
                Now Sundance, I know you think MOM is hookie or something, but the guy sure the hell is not THAT stupid to leave FDLE a trail of bread crumbs straight to an account that is obviously transferring money between spouses WHILE the husband is sitting in jail on second degree murder charges! ALL the WHILE during a BAIL hearing on NATIONAL TV he questions the wife on their finances after supposedly KNOWING about all this money and leads her down the hall to perjury charges! Yep, that does WONDERS for an attys. career.
                You are just pissed because he would not take the fall for the Zimmermans obvious STUPID mistake!

                • If and when it Shellie’s case goes to court, it will be learned that Robert Jr. was not the brother-in-law Shellie referred to.

                  Ken was. On the jail house call recordings they called him “Scott”

                • No. You are incorrect.

                  Yes, I am saying Robert Jr. had FACE TO FACE convo with mark O’Mara about the PayPal account. Yes, O’Mara said DO NOT INCLUDE. Yes O’Mara knew of the account prior to the bond hearing.

                  Ken / Scott and I have talked numerous times – bazillions of times.

                  GZ sent O’mara the balance of the PayPal (cheque) via fed-x the day following his bond release. This package included the passport.

                  The Florida BAR opened an investigation of O’mara because of what he did when he rec’d the money – knowing the publicity around it – they were checking the O’Mara surrogated accounts and noticed it never appeared.

                  He never put it into a surrogated client defense account, as required by the BAR.

                  when you see O’Mara say to the media he had no idea the account existed, and/or how much was in those accounts – that is a LIE. He knew with as much certainty as George Zimmerman.

          • At the first bond hearing, after BDLR brought up the paypal account, Lester asked O’Mara to provide him with a full accounting of the paypal account. O’Mara was forced on the issue. Lester also said he didn’t know if he had any jurisdictation over the fund. Lester never, to my knowledge, ever referred back in proceedings to his research on the account. Did he determine that he did have jurisdiction but never informed anyone of that? I remember distinctly on the day of the first bond hearing the account was growing in leaps and bounds with the donations. Since the prosecution made such a big deal of the account, O’Mara was correct in taking control over the funds. He was able to provide the court with an ongoing accounting. Didn’t Lester say that GZ may have tried to leave the country on “other people’s money.” If O’Mara was controlling the disbursements, he proved that GZ had no ability to abscond, even if he wanted to. With O’Mara having to provide the court with an accounting, he also couldn’t abscond with the money, and couldn’t just grab the money for himself.

            If Corey’s office had the slightest bit of honesty or integrity, BDLR could have marched into court that day and simply asked Shellie to verify the information he had already obtained. Shellie offered to get her BIL on the phone to provide current info., no one followed through on that offer. BDLR used that entire hearing, and the paypal issue as a gottcha. Lester held GZ responsible for sitting there like a potted plant and not correcting Shellie’s info, which he likely could not have done. With a rapidly growing account, whatever number Shellie or George gave, it would not have been correct. BDLR set a trap, and then took Lester’s advice and arrested Shellie.

    • I’m convinced that SD is suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder. O’Mara is his obsession. He moved O’Mara into his head long ago, and has kept him locked in their 24/7. SD will knock, mock and ridicule anyone who may even remotely be attached to O’Mara in any way. He has no proof, despite his claim that Herring dropped Shellie so he didn’t have to out O’Mara. Herring may very well have decided that he didn’t want to play any part in a high profile case, to receive death threats as the defense team has, or he may have been unwilling to go up against a well known corrupt Corey state attorney’s office. Is there any proof that Herring actually had originally agreed to take Shellie’s case, and to see it all the way through?

      For anyone that has read Sundance Crackers posts for any length of time would have to notice that he almost never is happy, upbeat or positive about anything. On the contrary, he is always on a crusade of righteous indignation against someone or something. He slams O’Mara for being a control freak, yet if you don’t go along with his opinions and speculation, he gets out the chain saw and cuts the branch off that you were sitting on in his tree. I laugh that he actually believes he has so much influence over so many people, like Herring, because they are scared to death that he would be breathing down their necks and exposing them for the evil people that they are, as determined by him.

      SD hides behind a fake name, claiming to be some kind of saint who only wants the truth, honesty and integrity from everyone that catches his eye. If the story I read about him last year is true, that he is in deep hock for back taxes, and is on something like his 4th wife, he has no room to slam anyone else. That story was linked at the CTH, and SD never denied any of it. I truly doubt that any attorney’s in Fla. are in “fear” of him, rather they would view him as someone who is very unstable. In the case of SD, truth does have an agenda. For him truth is what he says it is, just take his word for it. He has yet to prove any truth about O’Mara.

      • Well said minipin! The double standard is apparent! It has been throughly discussed by extreepers who had close daily contact with him he exhibits some personality disorder. I feel some followers look past that because he appears intellegent. Most people who have personality disorders are intelligent mentally, but they have many social issues and have many personal difficulties in their private lives. Their outlook on the world is very negative.

        • SD has a problem with O’Mara being a control freak, yet SD is a uber control freak. Disagree with his speculations and you get the boot. SD seems to believe that O’Mara wanted George to hide money, yet SD himself is in deep hock for back unpaid taxes. SD claims that O’Mara didn’t have any sympathy or aligence to George, yet SD may have been married a number of time.

          Certainly not everyone who posts currently at the treehouse, but without doubt he has a good handful of those that hang on his every word. He has proven nothing to them, only speculative opinions and ideas, but they can’t get enough of SD. There are some that truly are weak, and do fear being booted from the tree. God forbid they would be shamed in such a manner. Still others have bought lock stock and barrel into the fallacy that it was O’Mara’s responsibility to fight the entire BGI. SD and some of his followers miss the forest for the trees. I’m sure SD doesn’t respect or even like the actions of Scott, Bondi, Corey, BDLR etc., but rather than focusing on those that allowed the BGI to take control of the case, those who pandered to and ran in fear from their threats should be the focus. Had they had the guts to tell the Crumps et al to go pound sand, they got down and kissed their feet. Rather than going after, and attacking the problem from the roots, those that actively participated in the railroading, it is easier to attack O’Mara. Where I come from that is called the Alinsky playbook. Pick the target, freeze it, ridiculae mock and personally destroy the target. In this case it is O’Mara, when it really should be Scott, Bondi, Corey and their whole crew.

      • Excellent post Minpin!

        One good thing about Sundance repeating himself over and over, we can just look up what we said the first time. When Sundance encouraged everyone to piss off and talk about the case at Diwataman’s site (which he didn’t get permission first), I wrote this in response to Sundance’s criticism of how O’Mara became George’s lawyer and the evidence that shows Mr. O’Mara was kept in the dark about the support George was getting.


        There never was a filing for indigent status. Mr. O’Mara alerted the court on April 20th he planned on putting one in. It was expected to be heard one week later but in between that time it was disclosed that George had $204K in donations. So the filing never happened and the Judge said a week later, I’m not sure what jurisdiction the court has over that money anyway.

        • You beat to mentioning there never was such indigent filing and the fact the Judge deferred the whole matter of the money because of the jurisdiction issue. And please… SD keeps bringing up the passport. Even the Judge made no issue of it, the prosecutors did not either! SD is the only one whining about the passport!

          • You are correct in that Lester dismissed the passport issue as no biggie. However, that was only after O’mara’s mea’ culpa, in court, about it being in his briefcase.

            You might remember the motion at issue was handed to O’Mara 20 minutes before the hearing began. You can imagine what was in O’Mara’s mind as he read it upon arrival in court and only then realized “oh shit, it’s in my briefcase”….. he forgot to turn it over. And George was inbound any moment (((egg faced – expression by MoM))) So yeah, Lester gave him a non-embarrassing gimme.

            But you miss the point. It was not Lester making a big deal of it, it was Corey, BDLR and the State….. who then drove that message from the courtroom, where they framed the geographic restrictions around it,…. to the media where they framed the ‘untrustworthy George narrative’.

            Lester might not have held it against O’Mara at all, but to say he didn’t hold it against GZ would be to dismiss the fact he structured his geographic boundary agreement by siding with the prosecution who based their request upon the passport’s absence.

            • I remember MOM already in writing telling Lester about the passport which is the whole reason why Lester made it a non issue and refused to hear anything more about it. And the money he defered to and the prosecutors WAITED until AFTER the bond hearing and testimony to get the Zimmermans bank records when BDLR even refrenced the website during the bond hearing Sundance!

              • The prosecution was monitoring the Zimmerman’s bank account since at least the day before GZ was arrested. I has asked at the time if it was even legal for the bank to turn over banking info. on someone who had not even yet been arrested. I believe O’Mara formally took the case the day before, or the day of GZ’s arrest. Did O’Mara have that banking info before the bond hearing? I don’t believe anyone knows if he did or didn’t. The prosecution was also monitoring GZ’s phone calls while he was in jail. Did O’Mara hear any of those jailhouse tapes before the prosecution handed them over to the judge when they requested GZ’s bail to be revoked? I would say likely not.

                SD, you had a major problem with O’Mara not coming out swinging and proclaiming GZ’s innocense from the get go. I don’t want to knock George or Shellie, but in those first early days of representation O’Mara really didn’t have all of the evidence. It’s possible that GZ may have kept O’Mara in the dark, especially with the paypal funds, how much there was, and what they were being used for. O’Mara also didn’t know what evidence the prosecutors had that may have credibly disputed GZ claims. He, and many of us, didn’t really come to any firm conclusion that GZ was innocent of anything until the discovery dumps proved he was telling the truth. Trust but verify.

    • Coreshift, Well according to recent comments to me and Nettles here and on my blog, we should just drop bashing Sundance for what he did to GZs fund by bashing MOM. Apparently the CTH is so much more then this case and there should be a kumbia. What does MOM have to do with Shellies case? She has her own atty. Sundance is beating a dead horse. It has been gone over NUMEROUS times.

      Nettles, You are right. It has to do with SDs credibility. If SD was wrong about MOM knowing about the paypal amount, then SD was wrong about MOM throwing GZ & SG under the bus, he was then wrong about MOMs intentions for creating the trust fund, and the whole stack of cards falls for SD. The roose it up. Still some hold out hope they were not duped by SD.

      • In yesterdays news it said that Shellie’s lawyers delayed the docket hearing and asked for a status conference next week instead. I wondered if Shellie has more than one lawyer now. What would happen to Sundance’s blood pressure if O’Mara joined the Shellie defense team. Now that George’s criminal case has been resolved successfully, is it still a conflict of interest for O’Mara to represent Shellie?

        • If he is still representing GZ then it would be a conflict. It is good practice for a husband and wife to have different attys. because of self interests and rights for all involved. The report could have been a misprint, or maybe someone else decided to join the case. But yeah, could you imagine what that would do to SD if MOM could join?

          • ROFL – If there is an ethical way Mr. O”Mara can join her defense I hope he does. He’s a great lawyer plus the extra whip cream on top of what it’ll do to Sundance.

            I think you are right about Sundance being divorced at least once. I read one of his posts where he says he became aware of the Zimmerman case when ButchCracker had it up on her screen. I assume that was a wife but I never heard or saw her post in the time I read there (May 2012 to March 2013).

            Here’s Butchcracker saying happy birthday to Sundance on June 29, 2011.

            • Way way back when I was still a member in good standing at the tree, hahahaha, someone posting provided a link to another site, don’t remember who or what site, that gave all kinds of info. on SD. They gave his name, his age, the name of the store that he managed at one time, that he owed back taxes in the amount of $23,000, and that he was on his fourth wife. SD never deleted the post that I am aware of, and he never denied any of the information in that post. Sundance and some others would hear a name, and many would run out to look for information on that person, even if they only had a first name, such as Francine. I guess someone was just paying SD back for what he had been guilty of doing himself. Remember the whole DD fiasco and Daisha?

              • I found this link but the source is the dog pound, so put whatever value on it you want to have. They don’t give any links to their statements though so its hard to check it out.

                According to them, one of Mark’s (Sundance) wife’s name is Tara. Please tell me its not the Tara who found the ABC tape.


                Edited at Sundance’s request

                • Now I have to change my dog pound references! I think it was the Grio who first ousted SD as Mark Bradman a store manager. Incidently there was a Mark Bradman who posted on Waigst way back in the day.

                • Sundance has also been known to post as Grandpa Cracker. Here is a facebook page for a musical band Grandpa Cracker.

                  Look at the recent posts by others, you’ll note a Michael XXXXXXX

                  His profile picture is exactly the profile picture that “tearjr” uses on Rick Sundance’s blog.

                  I think these two know each other.

                  Rick’s blog started on July 4th.

                  Edited per Sundance’s request

                  • Nettles, you guys really need to take a breath. You are all smart and quite capable of verifying what you believe to be lies. You can ask Robert via DM if preferred private, you can call Herring’s law firm.

                    Do you really think I would just make this stuff up? Really? Do you think I would open myself up for libel by making stuff up about O’Mara or anyone else?

                    The truth is the greatest defense behind such allegations. Try checking for yourself.

                    If you knew the truth behind all the various backstories around this case you would, if you possessed such constitution, be rightly embarrassed.

                    The weight of such severe embarrassment would bring a genuine person to their knees.

                    I hold no grudge toward anyone, even those who are going to great lengths to put private information about me on these pages – that shows your character not mine. It also opens you to doxing litigation (which is based on intent) but that’s another matter.

                    Yes, I was married before. Yes, I was widowed due to cancer – yes it was/is painful, and yes my handling of the estate finances therein ran into trouble with the IRS. What does that really have to do with the Truth and construct of the Zimmerman case.

                    If you seriously wanted to verify, as mentioned, the easiest path would be to send a link to the story and ask RZ-Jr if it is truthful?

                    But would that settle it for you? I doubt it.

                    George himself could tap you on the shoulder and tell you how wrong you are, but you are so truth adverse you cannot see your own forest through the trees. why? I can only imagine because it would turn your world view upside down, and combined with the embarrassment mentioned earlier may be a little to difficult to face. I really am not sure. I’m guessing.

                    I have prayed with the Zimmerman’s, with Gladys and with her family – I have worked diligently, and at times awkwardly, to retain their interests. Their interests, get that?… Their interests.

                    You just can’t bring your mind toward any consideration that you are just fundamentally wrong, can you?

                    Knowing what I have written about O’mara, and knowing it all can be verified as accurate and truthful from the perspective of the Zimmerman family (et al and writ large) …… perhaps, just perhaps, you can understand why your close association with the defense people, who the Z-family were in the precarious position of considering a risk, led to the decision that your association was too dangerous to keep in the Treehouse.

                    I was fearful that your steadfast, albeit misplaced, loyalty to O’Mara would become a toxic infection upon the only REFUGE available for the GZ Clan.

                    As anyone can see from the personal attacks, my fears were well founded.

                    You were, for all intents and purposes, selling the storyline being fed to you from O’mara. This was in opposition to the Z-family requesting the TRUTH to be broadcast. That truth was divergent from the storyline you bought into.

                    …..and by the way – I am not Rick Madigan. I have no clue who he is.

                    [By way of this comment you have my personal email]

                    Best of luck.

                    • I prefer open and honest public communication Sundance. Do I think you would open yourself to libel? No. That is why what you say is only opinion, as you could never provide proof. I highly doubt an atty. would waste time attempting to make you prove what you say. And you know darn well there is no use in suing you.
                      Look, fear? What boggeyman do you see now SD? You should start following your own advice before thinking you lead anyone to the rich waters of knowledge.
                      What I have said is obviously backed up, not opinion as we have had the pleasure of your visit.

                    • SD offend me? No, you have not personally offended me. You do not know me. Obviously you do not. You claim I have a specific allegience that I do not. You claim I have an ideology I do not. So how could you know me enough to offend me? You however, have been disrepectful to many a Zimmerman supporter, and through your misinformation affected the defense fund. Offer solid proof and quit playing this ideology name calling game like you have to look through SD glasses to see truth!
                      Not one atty. could have or would have been able to change the public opinion and corruption in FL. once the ball got rolling. To make remarks that MOM had anything to do with the railroading without one shred of proof besides making accusations and then doing what you did to a number of contributors to make it appear you are correct is (insert here).
                      I have no fear Sundance. None. I sleep well at night. I do not need to keep any lies in order and I do not regret supporting the defense.
                      Again, you keep repeating what you know many of us agree on thinking it means we have to agree on everything else. I could care less at this point about talking individual game players, after all you have a habit to group people together for very minor things. Never could you place a Zimmerman supporter into the same group as FDLE, but you have, you continue to do so. It is apples and oranges but somehow you feel you are right! It is not about TRUTH. It is about who believes YOU.
                      You owe it to yourself for the lack of support you could have had against BGI, MSM because you took it personally. YOU let the sudden interest @ CTH go to your head and YOU jumped the shark.

                    • Thank you for coming here and using your profile that everyone recognizes. I’d appreciate you doing that all the time.

                      Ask Robert what question in a DM? Who is Herring’s law firm?

                      You may not be aware of it, but I think your political position clouds your judgements sometimes. It certainly has in the case of Mr. O’Mara and you led those who supported George down a dangerous path that caused some of his supporters to stop donating. If that didn’t piss the family off, I don’t get it.

                      I don’t care who you are in real life. If you want to stay anonymous then you’d do well not to use your site to out others. You remind me of Trent Sawyer who spews garbage at people and then saying they are gay bashing when they respond back to him. If you want to shine sunlight and truth among the people who want to remain anonymous, don’t cry foul when others look to pull your identity into the sunlight. You may recall, I emailed you a warning when I came across Joy’s research to establish who you are in June of 2012.

                      I’m surprised the treehouse got so many confidential emails when you have so many administrators. What are there, six people with access to the email account?

                      Are you now telling me you shut my voice down on your site because the Zimmerman family requested it of you?

                      You do spread knowing lies. I live in another country and you told your readers I was a member of the defense team. Reading garbage like that gives you no credibility in my book. You also change your position when it’s convenient for you.

                      I’m sorry to read you lost a wife due to cancer. I’ve survived that awful disease 4 times now and the 5th time scares the hell out of me. Mark, if you have had multiple wives, how the hell can you condemn Tracy for his lifestyle? Don’t you see the hypocrisy in that?

                      I’m very sorry I ever participated in your site. You’re a fraud. I hope you made the money you needed off the Zimmerman case.

                      Why did you send Rick Madigan to Diwataman’s site to invite the O’Mara fans back? You posted that blog after 1am and Rick asked minpin back at 4:30 in the morning. You both night owls? Why did Rick never post until right after I left and why did he post spewing the exact same issues with O’Mara as you had?

                      Just give the facts. Let each reader decide the truth.

                    • SD claims “Every Treehouse admin is 100% beyond reproach. You may not like them – You may not like their opinion – But they are brutally honest and straightforward.”

                      I would add: self righteous to a fault.

                  • Well, I do not care who he really is either. I knew for sometime he and some of the admins. have sock accounts.

                    • Neither I, nor any admin have “sock” or “secondary” accounts.

                      Every Treehouse admin is 100% beyond reproach. You may not like them – You may not like their opinion – But they are brutally honest and straightforward.

                    • Ate you talking the different RJ on the audio? Because many people disagree with you. In fact matching up the missing parts of Crumps to Gutmans it is the same person dif. quality. And it sounds like the same RJ who testified to me.

                    • You mean like “Diane” who never posted before or after the Tcong discussion. She all of a sudden showed up at the treehouse to say that she was offended by the term Tcong. What chance is their that someone would show up in that discussion, for the first time, and the last time, to post at the treehouse. Diane was a sock account created to support the mods. opinions that Tcong just may have been used to call blacks monkeys. If I am not mistaken, Sharon posted some information that blacks have never successfully run any country. Hypocritical to the nth degree. Another display that you can’t say it, but I can, because I sit behind this dashboard and can eliminate you. SD could use any language he chose, but, if a poster used that same bad language they were taken to the woodshed for having “bad manners” or outright banned.

              • Mini, I remember there were suppose to be two or three DDs. They even looked up the wrong age girls. I feel like I got Crumped with that one. Really that is when I personally knew CTH Jumped the Shark.

                • Who was wrong? There were two differing sets of people in two differing scheme team narratives. Once of which they took to the State.

                  Matt Gutman did not lie about his descriptions on the 3/19/12 person he listened to and later interviewed. We accurately identified the “girlfriends” (2) of TM both of whom he was dating in Feb of 2012. That is who was described, no?

                  We also accurately identified the “girls” (4) who were on the phone with TM on 2/25 and 2/26/12. That was also described, no?

                  Once The State affirmed one person as W8, Dee Dee, Rachel Jeantel, there was no value in putting other kids from Krop and/or Carrol city, or Miami Gardens through anything. Nor Alicia Stanley’s girls. None of that was going in the courtroom, so none of it mattered.

                  When the potential for it to be in court existed, the aim was appropriate. Once the potential removed, by the affirmations of the State, the issue became moot.

                  • Sundance –

                    I am still somewhat confused on that point.

                    Is the person who Gutman interviewed (and according to his tweet, several times) the same person that Crump (ahem) recorded and played to the press? And is that person Rachel?

                    • Confusion is the purpose Hoosan. There has never been any voice analysis of the girl who showed up at Crump’s interview, to the one that BDLR interviewed, to the one that showed up in court. There is no proof at all whatsoever that there were multiple DD’s. It does give SD “plausible deniability though, a term he used frequently in his posts. He has no proof at all that there was more than one DD that claimed she was on the phone with TM near the time of the shooting. It really doesn’t matter if there were 16 DD’s. The one that showed up in court damaged the prosecution case, and actually helped the defense unwittingly, and has perjured herself ever since in TV interviews.

                      I would think that if the state was willing to put someone on the stand to back their claims, they could have found someone much better than Rachel Jeantel. No?

                  • Thank you for that concise answer, SD. Once she said ‘It should be now.’ and then admitted that she shared the phone, I really wanted to know how many ‘many’ was…

        • I’m expecting that any day now Kelly Sims will be O’Marared by SD. Simms was in the courtroom at least part of the time for George’s hearing. The minute Simms, or any other atty’s she may have does something that SD doesn’t approve of, he will do exactly the same to them that he did to O’Mara. I suspect he will require Simms now to take on the whole BGI. If he doesn’t he is just another evil and corrupt lawyer who is not looking out for the best interests of his client.

          Look at his post about Kruidbos. He rightfully claims that in any action the defense atty’s may take against Corey’s office, Kruidbos likely will play a big role in that effort. Then he says that he thinks Kruidbos was morally wrong to not go to his bosses at the state office before giving the info. to the defense team. I don’t think anyone could possibly believe that SD really thought he would get anywhere going to anyone at the corrupt state atty’s office, he’s just angry because O’Mara was given evidence by Kruidbios, where the TM pictures and texts were splashed all across the internet, and added some strength to O’Mara and the defense case. Yet SD claims that O’Mara didn’t have George’s best interests at heart??? Even though those pictures were not allowed in the trial, anyone with a computer saw just who the real TM was. That’s why I’ve said that anyone even remotely attached to O’Mara or the Zimmerman case is open to mocking and ridicule by SD. How dare they not take his word for it that O’Mara is who he says he is.

            • We had received numerous emails apologizing for anger and vitriol that was inbound to the Tree House during the Zimmerman case. We also rec’d a very specific email from a Z-Family member who was guilt ridden over the flack and nasty hate (huh, funny that) directed toward me personally.

              The post was an open communication to just lettitgo and not to concern themselves with guilt because none was needed.

              In a way, very ironic given the nature of your latest rabid anger posts here in the last 12 hours. I think that is the kind of thing they were apologizing for and feeling guilt about, because they knew I could not defend myself without exposing sensitive communication.

              That’s all. nothing more – and certainly nothing less.

              • So why make a private email a public response? You surley could address those emails in an email even by BCCing the specific people. On one hand you have maintained you are distance to the case but on the other hand make claims about what happens behind closed doors.

                • What makes you think I did not *also* respond personally?

                  The post was just a decision I made, after some email back and forth to explain, in essence, not to worry themselves about my being attacked. I have broad shoulders.

                  So the decision was to reach and reaffirm to those who would understand, but still present in a manner that I thought all Treehouse readers would appreciate.

                  The undercurrent of the post is my personal feeling about guilt, forgiveness, and moving forward.

                  That’s all.

                  In essence, like my visit here, O’Mara’s deceptive practices were longer a risk to the Zimmerman family. I was kinda saying…. “breathe”.

                  Prior to this moment I have held numerous plates spinning knowing that if I failed to attend each carefully, they could fall and make things worse. Those fears are no longer in place. O’Mara is no longer a risk to the Zimmerman family. And in a larger sense, the truth of O’Mara is no longer a risk to the Zimmerman family. The truth is only a risk to O’Mara himself now…. and well, quite frankly, y’all know my thoughts on that consideration.

                  He should rightly reap that which he sowed…. or not, no matter. It effects no-one else now.

                  • I can say you are quite tenacious SD.
                    Personally, I feel your newests post over @ CTH is not exhibiting those broad shoulders you claim to have. Sounds like you are making yourself a spokeperson for the Zimmermans. So someone is not being honest. I get the impression that someone is you and any communication you may have had with them may be as usual, misinterpreted.

                    • No. I’m not a spokesperson for anyone except myself.

                      Perhaps the difference you may note now is I don’t have to filter myself any longer. And the absence of worry means I don’t need the broad shoulders because there is no burden to carry.

                      I have played the 3 dimensional chess game in a mirrored room, for over a year, always having to worry about -and think 3 steps ahead of- the Zimmerman prosecution who was reading every word.

                      It was the most challenging writing I have ever done – you can’t imagine the edits and deletions. 😉

          • Yeah, the being MOMed card has been played too many times. Maybe I can save myself some time and just let SD show off his jumping the shark skillz once again…..lol. This is Deja Vu. I guess the branch chant “The CTH is more then just this case” has worn off pretty fast?

      • I read that exchange a few days ago Danny but stayed out of it because I viewed the post as being more of an appeal to let my buddy SD alone kind of thing. I did absolutely agree that the major focus for everyone must be on the injustices that happened to the Zimmerman family, but from what I’ve seen posted here the posters are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. If I understood Nettles correctly, she indicated that it is healthy to debate what went wrong in order to try to keep it from happening again. It didn’t take long to see it happening again. Now it has moved on to an atty. that chose not to take Shellie’s case, if he was even asked to to begin with.

        • I did allow it to get too personal though. Nettles was right to redirect the focus knowing what we all can contribute, and walking that weary path by taking things personally puts focus on any place we can be personally attacked. Great attack me, but it began making some here guilty by association. That I took more personal then anything else. We are aware there is always opportunity to be the recipient of ad hominem attacks. I understand the direction Nettles wants to take it despite the ongoing misinformation from SD. It is important to discuss our experiences and the misinformation, who is spreading it, why, but taking things personally does not help anyone. That is what I got from Nettles.

            • Hummm. Check out your bud Rick Madigans WP. I do not fear anything from it getting personal. It just does not need to be as personal as it got or we will end up in the same boat as you. It is always best to learn from others mistakes SD, as it saves a lot of time and trouble.

              • I have never been to Rick Madigan’s website, nor do I consider him a “bud”. From what I can determine he is a friend of George Zimmerman.

                A friend, not unlike many others, who appear to have been doing the best he could -under stressful circumstances- to be loyal to his friend as he watched numerous lies scattered around the webosphere.

                Is there something of value there, that I would/should be interested in?

                • No no Sundance. You still have proven absolutely nothing. You talked here about having some inside knowledge about the Zimmerman family. You know damn well that the Zimmerman family is not going to come out publically against O’Mara even if they wanted to. That gives you free reign to state your opinions with no backup acknowledgement from any Zimmerman. Will Robert Jr. come out publicallt against O’Mara when he thanked him, and the defense team over and over on his tweets prior to trial. Why would Robert Jr. do that if he had animosities against O’Mara? Why would he thank O’Mara after each hearing for doing a great job in court that day? Your post about Roberts revelations to you makes no sense. It would seem that if Robert Jr. was so against O’Mara, and his representation of GZ that he would have just remained silent. It seems that Robert Sr. wanted Sonner and Ulrig to represent GZ. GZ went in a different direction. Was Robert Sr. displeased with GZ’s choice of attorney? Maybe. Was Robert Sr. emailing you and giving you the scoop? By your own posts, yes he was. Then you posted that the Zimmerman’s, all of them, were comfortably clueless and very naive. Why would you say that about Robert Sr. if he was telling you behind the scenes that he was not happy with O’Mara. Did he not jump through the rings you put before him to talk George into getting rid of O’Mara. I thought you said that O’Mara locked George to him by the Bond agreement. No?

                  Sundance, I’ve taken much of what you have posted here with a grain of salt. You’ve made a habit of saying things you have no ability to prove. Yes, you can openly talk about the Zimmerman’s now, and whatever your communications were with them, but it is still based on your own accusations and interpretations which somehow have never panned out with any degree of sunlight or proof.

                  Has Danny scared you to death about his threats about exposing you? It seems that way to me. You could have posted here all along with your explanations. You never have until now.

                  • BTW, it does kind of make sense to me that Rick Madigan may in fact be Mark Osterman. JTFP is supposedly Sondra Osterman’s mom. O’Mara supposedly cut off all communication with GZ and the Osterman’s. He didn’t approve their book. They made damned fools of themselves writing the book, giving up private conversations they had with GZ, and the Dr. Phil interview was a disaster. Didn’t BDLR ask Sondra on the stand how many books they sold? JTFP supplied much inside info at the treehouse, some of it totally false. Of course the mom of Sondra would hate O’Mara, just as Mark Osterman may also. He took them out of the loop, and from releasing info. they should never have released. Of couse the Osterman’s would hate O’Mara. I wonder if George and Shellie have been in touch with them since the acquittal. Wasn’t it Mark Osterman who encouraged George to talk to the police without legal representation? Wasn’t it Mark Osterman who told George he would never be arrested?

                    • He very well could be Mark Osterman.

                      When you think about his quick quotes to Hoons1st, he quotes Hoon1st talk with JFP (his mother-in-law). When he talked about the first post (something an admin had to have shared with him) the topic was the Dr. Phil show and they thought Hoons1st was the show’s producer. I giggled gloriously over that one! So yes, Mark Osterman very well could be Rick Madigan. Just as JFP got her attitude toward O’Mara from her son, Rick got his attitude from not hearing from George after helping him.

                      It dishonest to post this way though. Just as I have said that relationships are important to disclose so the reader has all the facts and can make up their own mind. I constantly contacted reporters who left out the fact that Frances Oliver was Natalie’s Mom and her daughter had a financial stake in her success in the case.

                      I heard Sundance help the Osterman’s with a suit against Robles for outing him. Not sure if that is valid or not. But Sundance went from I don’t know Rick to Rick is a friend of George Zimmerman’s to telling us how and why Rick was frustrated.

                      Rick did the same thing. Told me I don’t personally know Sundance, that went to telling me why Sundance said things and what he really meant. I trust there have been lots of emails between them.

                      O’Mara was right to cut the Ostermans off. Sundance said it initially too. They gave George bad advice from the get go and their recollections of the events gave the prosecutors and the press ammunition.

                    • @minpin, all has been explained below. also the reason for my appearance is you are providing direct personal links for rabid Trayvon supporters (angry vindictive people) to track down my family, again.

                      This is dangerous to both myself and my family. I can defend myself, but my kids and my family are another matter.

                      Obviously Nettles is quite ok with that. if anything happens I will hold her to account.

                    • Sundance, you know who Rick is. Don’t sit here and tell me you know it’s GZ’s friend yet don’t know who he is exactly. He’s been posting at your site since I left. Some of his posts are now gone.

                      When he first started posting he made himself out to be a family member of the Zimmerman’s with a grave concern about O’Mara and what he was doing to George.

                      Someone knew the score from the get-go and told me it was you. The more I watched, the more I thought maybe, until April 6th when he called banned posters back to your site.

                    • Look Nettles, I don’t give a crap what you think of me or rick or whoever. But I have NO CLUE who Rick Madigan is. Period.

                      Maybe he is that Mark Osterman guy. I have NO IDEA and I swear that to be true. I know he is a friend of GZ because he has previously said he was a friend of GZ – but beyond that I’m clueless.

                      If there was something there, that is no longer there, then it was viewed as a risk by the admin team who know the entire dynamic. This has actually been done numerous times, however, they generally tell me when and why. A few times Jordan was posting stuff without thinking through unintended consequences, his stuff was removed also. It was not uncommon – as we tried to protect the sensitive information and personal authorship from prosecution discovery.

                      I do know Rick is not me, and I do know he sent me a mea culpa for saying negative stuff about me, supposedly on this site….. (though I don’t know what because I never went looking for it) From what I remember he claimed such was done because he was *trying to get you to stop thinking he was me.

                      However, I do know, with absolute certainty, you pissed off Ken/Scott because you used information in a cc’d email I sent you and D-Man -after I told you to retain the confidence- but I don’t remember the content of the email I forwarded.

                      I do know that’s essentially the framework where the larger GZ community (outer circle) determined you were not trustworthy – Because you violated that requested confidence.

                      Please understand – there were points where we were just inundated with emails from people claiming to be family members or close family supporters. That was part of the reason I needed to reach out to Robert and Jr. to identify who was who.

                      I still don’t know who everyone is – I do know they sought refuge at the Treehouse and yet I have no idea who they all are. A few I can identify, but I think there’s many more I do not.

                      Despite my disagreements with D-Man, we have never violated each others trust.

                      You cannot say the same. But that’s just an fyi now with water under the proverbial bridge…. but might help you to understand why your light diminished in the eyes of the outer and inner circle. In essence you could not be trusted.

                      I will tell you this, and maybe it will help you. Whoever has told you that I am Rick is either intentionally playing you, or intentionally misleading you, or flat out lying to you. There is some ulterior intent there, that I can assure you of, because he is not me. Period. On my kids lives I swear that.

                      Lastly on this O’Mara issue. I have no idea what Sean or anyone else from the office has told you about the case. again, I have intentionally never talked to them.

                      However, I can tell you from actually being in Orlando and talking to people in/around that office (not attorneys), when they did not know who I was, that legal political psy-ops is a keen skillset inside that office. it was from a 3 day fact-finding visit to the area, early on, that I decided NEVER to contact that office or the defense team. I recognized early on that something was amiss but could not, nor did I actually want to, identify it.

                    • Well aren’t you a piece of work!

                      Yes, Sundance, you shared with me a confidential email received from a family member of George Zimmermans. Not only me but with Chip and Diwataman as well. It was unsolicited, you just sent it out. An email where they asked you to keep things private and you didn’t.

                      You can thank you lucky stars that I did keep the content private and shared it with no one. So if Ken/Scott thinks I did, he’s mistaken. I’d love to hear how you explained I got it in the first place.

                      I tried to warn people not to trust you but alas it was up to them.

                      Again, my ban came from not buying your bullshit about O’Mara. Argue it all you like. Everyone saw the post and your response to it.

                      You really are a vile human being.

                    • And you are obviously part of the perpetually aggrieved.

                      Whenever a person is on the losing, or wrong, side of an issue – hurling insults is their only resort left.

                      Trust is earned. Try making deposits on the field instead of hurling opinion from the bleachers…. You’ll never admit you are wrong, and you’ll go on thinking I’m Rick Madigan.

                      Why? Because you have to….. you’ve established a faulty foundation.

                      You have invested so much of your own sense of self into cognitive fallacies that if you accepted you were wrong – it would mean your core sense of self identity was compromised. The exact traits you railed against from the other side of the George Zimmerman case.

                      You’ve been played by the O’Mara machine. You bought into a picture you created in your mind.

                      When/if you get responses from Robert Zimmerman Jr you probably will not even accept them. There will always be a way to avoid that painful reflection.

                    • Yes trust is earned. And you readers should know that you should not be trusted.

                      I posted on your site that I had mistakenly outed an email from the defense. So can you imagine my thoughts, when into my mailbox a few weeks later come an email asking you to keep the contents private and your sharing it with me and two other people.

                      I know myself and I knew it was safe in my hands but how could you have known that? Of all the people for you to send this to, you sent it to me who confessed to sharing a private email. I couldn’t believe you’d be so careless with these folks correspondence. You didn’t know me then, you don’t know me now.

                      But I know you judgement sucks!

                      All this inner GZ and out GZ stuff is hogwash. You sent me that email hoping I’d get on the bashing O’Mara bandwagon. I signalled to you the next day that I won’t. How did I do that? Why, but posting the post that got me banned. It had nothing to do with mistrusting the email you sent the day before. It had to me not towing your party-line. Again I encourage everyone, do not trust Sundance to keep your stuff confidential.

                    • You proved Mr. O’Mara’s point with that stunt Sundance. This is exactly why he was telling people to stop talking. But some just couldn’t do it and they went to you (according to you) and you shared their correspondence with others.

                      Now come on here and tell me I can’t be trusted?

                      I never revealed the contents of that email and if something did get posted that was in there was because I got the information another way.

                      Unlike you, I don’t give weight to information I have to keep quiet about. It doesn’t get used unless I can reveal where it came from. That’s what you should have done but you told everyone ‘trust me’. You’re the last person I would trust based on knowing you share things you are asked to keep private.

                    • You really are a small person.

                      I asked the author of it for permission to share the content prior to forwarding it. With a note that it would be shared with trustworthy people. (my mistake and lapse in judgment of you accepted) It was sent with a request for confidence toward the content so that you and all other recipients would have a framework of understanding the dynamic at play.

                    • Your email didn’t indicate that. The writer specifically asks you to keep it to yourself.

                      Next, again to your judgement, I admitted to outing a private email that got the defense into a pickle. You lack common sense in sending to me until you got to know me better. You never gave either of us the chance. You banned me the next day because I wouldn’t fall in line.

                    • “Yes, Sundance, you shared with me a confidential email received from a family member of George Zimmermans. Not only me but with Chip and Diwataman as well. It was unsolicited, you just sent it out. An email where they asked you to keep things private and you didn’t.”

                      Would someone like to clue me into which email was shared?

  13. Two Families…One Cause
    Civil Rights…Human Wrongs…Charge For Youth Leadership

    In commemoration of the 58th anniversary of the murder of Emmett Till (8/28/55) and the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington (8/28/63), the families of EMMETT TILL and TRAYVON MARTIN unite for an exclusive “Till Talk” (Truth to Inspire Lifetime Leaders) August 23, 2013 at 5:00 p.m. at Shiloh Baptist Church, 1500 Ninth Street, Washington DC.

    This exclusive event reflects on the atrocities of Emmett Till, Trayvon Martin and other victims. This “Till Talk”
    features afree moving screening of “The Untold Story of Emmett Louis Till” including compelling footage about the tragic murder of Trayvon Martin; followed by a solution-powered forum intended to provoke thought and critical dialogue between youth, parents, community activists, educators, historians, entertainers and others concerned with civil rights, human rights and violence prevention.

    MODERATOR ~ Toure, Co-host of “The Cycle” on MSNBC


    • Listening to talk radio right now, they are discussing this case. I’m hearing that “woods” refers to white people. It’s some kind of southern thing where blacks refer to whites as woods. Who knows what he meant by knocking out 5 woods since Zimmerman’s acquittal. I wonder if he is saying that he beat up or sucker punched 5 white people? I doubt there are 5 unsolved murders in OK.

      • See the fists in his post. Is he playing the “knock out” game on white people over his anger in the Zimmerman verdict.

        As I know this case was built on lies and politics, this really pisses me off. The media, who is suppose to bring us the public facts, was a partner in the manipulations of race-baiters looking to make a buck.

        John Good’s interview to Ken Landry, a reporter was aired the very next day stating he saw TM beating GZ right before the shot. The media never played it. They allowed a lie to anger the public that Trayvon laid in the morgue for 3 days b/c racist cops didn’t care to identify the black kid in their morgue. Where that really came from was Tracy was pissed that Trayvon still had a John Doe on his foot when he got picked up by the funeral director. Yet, the family used and spun the facts to create anger in the public.

        If this is so, the people who lied about the facts in the Zimmerman case are also responsible for Chris Lane’s murder. There will be more unless and until the facts about Trayvon become known and the lies that were told are exposed.

        • True. Look if the media gets away with hiding the TM truth they can be successful hiding almost anything to sway the public. This is why bloggers and social media are important. Too bad most of the time we have no choice but to rely on initial media reports.

          • Not me Danny. I cancelled my cable tv subscription more than a year ago because I couldn’t trust “any” of them to tell the truth about much of anything. I think the first time I heard about the Zimmerman case was when Sheppard Smith, on Fox, was going apoplectic about the poor innocent child that was murdered by a vigilante simply for walking home from the store with tea and skittles. The other guy on his show, the one with the coke bottle glasses, said something about not having all of the evidence yet, or something like that and Smith almost jumped across the table to belt him. Literally the guy sat way back. No matter what information was released in the discovery or elsewhere, Smith still kept calling GZ a murderer, and kept referring to TM as an innocent unarmed child. Admittedly my first thoughts were that GZ was some kind of monster, especially seeing the first pictures put out of both. On another website someone provided me with the link to the treehouse, and my eyes were widely opened. It’s too bad but I think you are correct, SD has jumped the shark, and he hasn’t landed on both feet on the other side.

            • To add to my above comment pertaining to the media I was reading an interesting story a few days ago. From what I read, tv cable subscriptions, where you get 100 or more channels, most of which you never watch, many are turning to some particular web availability where you can sign up for, and only pay for what you want to watch. The cable network ratings seem to be bearing that out.

              I’ve truly felt like I’ve been living in a past century with having no access to high speed internet. I believe I am only weeks away from the cell tower installed across the road from my house up and operating. Ha, then I will likely lose some of my computer time with my better half watching his fishing shows and every football game known to man. I’ll fix him, I’ll get a new laptop and give him my old dinosaur that depends on the gerbils spinning the wheels fast enough.

  14. Nettles – I am NOT asking you to do this, but will you please tell me how?

    I want to keep up with everything pending against Corey, especially the 2 pending lawsuits against her office for wrongful termination. Where would I go to find if there is anything scheduled in Court on the cases?

    I too wonder if Fla. tries to settle these cases instead of trying them for the public to watch & risk huge Judgements against the State.

    • Get to know the media outlets in Jacksonville and follow their facebook and twitter pages. I just posted an interview Ms. Corey did for local TV and she talks about the Zimmerman case and the Ben Kruidbos case.

      If you are on twitter, follow Yancy Faith. She is on top of the Jacksonville news.

      • Nettles – I follow the media closely & saw the link you shared today on 8-10-13 when it was available, the MEDIA articles are too available through GOOGLE as soon as they shared w/the public in news cast or newspapers…. I didn’t think about face book & I don’t follow Yancyfaith, but I will start. Thanks for the suggestions.

    • Nettles – thanks, I read news4jax several times a week & they have a page with ALL articles on A Corey, I just wondered about the Court Filings & status in the 2 pending cases against Corey for wrongful termination which would not necessarily make the news but would be Court Documents.

      Would I check the Court House records for Jacksonville?

      The first case has been rescheduled, I assume the defendants attorney is looking for MORE WITH HELD Brady Material, I haven’t seen anything as to the re-scheduling of that case that was ready to have a jury chosen WHEN the Brady Material was unearthed & Corey took a verbal beat down from the Judge. That case is expected to cost Corey’s office a bundle, that in addition to what Corey has already cost the taxpayers of Fla.

  15. If anyone is interested, here is the homepage of Rush Limbaugh. His show transcripts are listed there. I have listened to Rush in the past few days & he hasn’t let up on comparing the case to TM’s case & the MEDIA attention TM’s case got BECAUSE of race.

    Limbaugh, like him or not, he is passionate & appalled at the senseless murder of Chris Lane as we all are, imo, Chris Lane needs Limbaugh’s advocacy & platform to continue to expose his case & the injustices in the MEDIA. jmho.


    White House spokesman ‘not familiar with’ Chris Lane murder’


    FOX News PRESSED Obama’s spokesperson today about what Obama THINKS about this murder REMINDING him Obama spoke out on Trayvon Martin’s case.

    His response: “He wasn’t familiar with the case!” L I A R imo!

    WHAT has Sybrina had to say about Chris Lane being MURDERED for the color of his skin, because thugs were bored or wanted to be initiated into the “Crips?”

    WHAT about the trial now taking place of the black teens that SHOT a BABY between the eyes in Ga. because the child’s mother had NO MONEY! She too was shot in the leg, very little coverage on a really sad case.

    • I posted PokerfaceTodd’s latest production about Australia boycotting the U.S. In it, he has an African American from New York who posted his thoughts on the Chris Lane case just today. It was brutally honest. If you get a chance, take a listen to his take. He admits, because those charged are black it might not become a racial issue. He admits, this crime was more senseless than Trayvon’s shooting.

      • Sadly this is why I pay little attention to the discriminative way media covers these cases. On one hand I see why they would not cover it is because they are black and the stero type is so known what is the point who will pay attention & they want ratings. Then again how unfair it is to have disproportional coverage for black on black crime & black on white crime compared to white on black crime!

        • Thank you. I wondered how PokerfaceTodd incorporated this into a production already when it was largely produced today.

          I saw it tweeted out by PokerfaceTodd and assumed the link was his.

          The young man is quite refreshing and brutally honest. He tells everyone, in America you can have babies, no money and the government will set you up in an apartment.

          • Here’s a pokerfacetodd video that incorporates clips from one of that same young man’s videos. The original video is linked to in the description. And yes, the young man is refreshing and brutally honest.

      • Trayvon death was not senseless, it was tragic, as you probably agree Annette.

        I have been disturbed by the exploitation by racial activists of the upcoming 50th anniversary of Civil Rights in Washington using Trayvon tragedy to push their agenda. I took a brief look at the anniversary march program and saw the march on the DOJ for jobs which uses the TM tragedy for political motivation. Yesterday learning that Pastor Mike McBride’s Lifelines program, part of the nation PICO community action, has me feeling rather ill and hopeless.

        Remember when O’Mara’s intern who happens to be black was interviewed about whether or not George was a racist she said No, and was asked how she knows. She said as an AA I just tell when I get to know someone. Well I know very well what kind of a racist Mike McBride is, I know what kind of a liar and cheat he is too, as do plenty of the local public officials, I also know he is clueless about the subject matter he claims expertise. McBride is a part of the leadership marching on the DOJ demanding George be charged federally.

  16. It was a year ago today that Mr. O’Mara shut down the legal’s site facebook presence.

    I believe it was the George Zimmerman supporters that got it shut down. A small band of idiots changed their profile pictures to monkeys to antagonize the State supporters. It pissed off a large segment of the Zimmerman supporters but we couldn’t get them to stop. So the legal team pulled the plug.

    Sucks that a few ruined a communication avenue for a lot.

    The legal team announced they would shut it down in a few hours and gave us time to say good-bye to our online friends. One of the posters named Ark came up with an idea to have a debate page and he took the lessons we learned at the legal site onto his new page. The State supporters mocked us as being homeless.

    That lasted until October and then another site popped up to host those wanting to talk on facebook about the case from both sides. It’s still in existence today and a link to the page can be found on the sidebar.

  17. @Nettles, there is no reply button under your post, so I’m copying it down here:


    you said:

    Thank you for coming here and using your profile that everyone recognizes. I’d appreciate you doing that all the time.

    *Answer from Me: => I’ve never used any other profile here. I’ve never commented here before for all of the reasons I shared with DannyWarrior above.

    Ask Robert what question in a DM? Who is Herring’s law firm?

    *Answer from Me => You can ask Robert Zimmerman Jr. if anything in that recent post about the backstory to Shellie Zimmerman is inaccurate. Obviously he knows who Herring is, that was Shellie Zimmerman’s first attorney. But you can confirm all of the details by asking him if that post is accurate. That’s what I meant.

    You may not be aware of it, but I think your political position clouds your judgements sometimes. It certainly has in the case of Mr. O’Mara and you led those who supported George down a dangerous path that caused some of his supporters to stop donating. If that didn’t piss the family off, I don’t get it.

    *Answer from Me => Of course my political opinions or positions frame my judgments. Not just sometimes, all the time. So too do my life experiences. You might view the truth about O’Mara as having been the cause of people stopping donating. Who knows. Is there a way to really know such a thing. But I can assure you it DID NOT piss off the family. Perhaps you don’t get it because you are not seeking to understand. The family was more concerned about the Truth than they were about any manipulation of it. The GZ family even tried, numerous times, to give me money to keep doing it. So you probably really don’t get it… LOL 😀 I’m not trying to convince you of anything, it is what it is.

    I don’t care who you are in real life. If you want to stay anonymous then you’d do well not to use your site to out others. You remind me of Trent Sawyer who spews garbage at people and then saying they are gay bashing when they respond back to him. If you want to shine sunlight and truth among the people who want to remain anonymous, don’t cry foul when others look to pull your identity into the sunlight. You may recall, I emailed you a warning when I came across Joy’s research to establish who you are in June of 2012.

    *Answer from me => Ouch comparing me to Trent Sawyer. The site, and my user id has been the same since inception. I’ve recently thought quite extensively about using my real name, but everyone knows me as Sundance (other than the Zimmerman family and site admins who also know my real name and contact info). I also used to post at iOTW as Grandpa Cracker because of an inside joke between the iOTW community in 2008/09. I never *outed anyone* at the Treehouse and am not sure what you mean. Are you referring to W9? That was an emergency action at the request of others, and in hindsight, while it worked someone had to take the sword fall. So OK, faced with a quick decision I decided to take the risk. But we have never doxed anyone who did not put themselves in the public spotlight. Joy Ann Reid was working hand-in-hand with her colleague Frances Robles and a bunch of people who were SERIOUSLY angry at the Treehouse for exposing their manipulations. This was when we were deconstructing the entire Scheme Team day by day. I was even sued over it (of course they lost in a big embarrassing way – but that’s a long story)

    I’m surprised the treehouse got so many confidential emails when you have some many administrators. What are there, six people will access to the email account?

    *Answer from Me => No, there are more than six, there are eight site admins. Stella, Sharon, WeeWeed, Tilda, Adrem, Menagerie and patriot Dreamer. They all have access to the email and all exceptional in their integrity therein. They are remarkable in their character and retention of confidence – yes, they have also communicated with the direct Zimmerman family, and the fact you would not know that speaks to how good they are at confidence retention.

    Are you now telling me you shut my voice down on your site because the Zimmerman family requested it of you?

    *Answer from Me => Well sort of. The goal was to share the truth. You openly admitted to having personal contact with the defense team, which automatically made you a risk. This became worse when you began challenging the truth based on your opinion, which was based on contact with the O’mara Law firm.

    You do spread knowing lies. I live in another country and you told your readers I was a member of the defense team. Reading garbage like that gives you no credibility in my book. You also change your position when it’s convenient for you.

    *Answer from Me => My apology if I presented your association out of context. My definition of your association, if made, was meant to convey your communicative engagements with them. As mentioned above – the O’Mara law firm was not always acting in the best interest of the Zimmerman family. However, that did improve just prior to the beginning of trial.

    I’m sorry to read you lost a wife due to cancer. I’ve survived that awful disease 4 times now and the 5th time scares the hell out of me. Mark, if you have had multiple wives, how the hell can you condemn Tracy for his lifestyle? Don’t you see the hypocrisy in that?

    *Answer from Me => I was married young, divorced, re-married and lost my wife to Cancer of unknown primary origin after 15 wonderful years together. I did remarry after Sherry died. I held the same job for 30 years and retired. I have never abdicated any responsibility for my family, my kids are stable and grounded, and I do not see any comparison of myself to Tracy Martin as fair.

    I’m very sorry I ever participated in your site. You’re a fraud. I hope you made the money you needed off the Zimmerman case.

    *Answer from Me => I have not made a dime off the Zimmerman case; quite the contrary I have spent tens of thousands of my own finances contributing to GZ’s defense, researching, travelling, spending nights in hotels, doing interviews, and providing resource material for a narrative to push back against the Legacy Media Complex. With more than a moderate amount of success – for without the collaborative efforts of the Conservative Treehouse so much would never have been known about the Scheme Team. I am not a fraud. I am a person who saw a wrong being committed, stood up to say it was not OK, and then took all the heat for holding the minority view. I am not ashamed of our effort – and I am proud to know the Zimmerman family was/is EXCEPTIONALLY appreciative of our efforts. We are proud, but we are not prideful. I’m not sorry your participated at all; without your participation this place we are communicating would not exist, nor would DiwataMan, who like you have contributed toward giving people a comfy place to associate.

    Why did you send Rick Madigan to Diwataman’s site to invite the O’Mara fans back? You posted that blog after 1am and Rick asked minpin back at 4:30 in the morning. You both night owls? Why did Rick never post until right after I left and why did he post spewing the exact same issues with O’Mara as you had?

    *Answer from me => Again with the Rick Madigan. ????? Sheeesh. I never sent Rick Madigan anywhere, let alone to DiwataMan’s site and have no clue what it is you are referring to. Can’t you use ip information to assure yourself that I am not Rick, or something. You obviously know my personal details. So it really is silly for you to keep up this narrative. However, yes, I am a night owl and find it easier and quieter, usually, to write and research late at night. From what I know Rick is a good friend of George Zimmerman and was trying his level best to be a loyal friend while he saw so much erroneous information being spewed around the media and even into social media, that for whatever reason he felt he needed to push back against. I also think he was genuinely afraid that George did not understand the O’Mara stuff, and he felt angry his friend was being misled. Putting oneself in such a position, and watching a close friend be screwed, by the very person in charge of his safety, while his family was helpless,…. etc. It is, to me, quite understandable.

    Just give the facts. Let each reader decide the truth.

    *Answer from me => I did. As I always do.

    • If Rick turns out to be Mark Osterman, I think I may scream.

      How do you feel about others inviting banned posters back to your site? I saw no public rebuke of that move. You knew about it and said nothing.

      Note to file: George Zimmerman was the client for Mark O’Mara, not his friends and not his family. He got George acquitted and should be thanked. It’s disgraceful the blow back on his efforts given the result.

      • Nope that can’t be right. Rick has access to the moderator’s information. He was able to tell Hoons1st when he first posted at the treehouse and what the post was about. Even Hoons1st didn’t know that information.

        • I think you can search yourself on the Treehouse website. You don’t have to be an admin. I know this because I have seen people write about doing it. Why don’t you ask him how he did it. If that will help you reconcile. Just a thought.

          • True it can be done. It took me 3 hours to find it. And I had no way of knowing if Hooson1st first post was really his first post but he thinks it could have been.

            Rick stated it as such and it appears to have been right. The only way to know that is with admin help. Secondly, he was able to quote rather quickly and keep the conversation going. Like I said, it took me about 3 hours to find the two references he used. Took him minutes.

      • I’m not quite sure of which invitation you speak (you say I know – ok, I accept that, but it just does not register a memory) but I hold no negative opinion about it. I personally have only ever banned 3 people, I think MichaelnotMike was one of them, you might have been another, I genuinely don’t remember, nor -as you can see- do I do it much. However, I support all the admin decisions in that regard.

        During the running of the GZ topics the moderation filters had to be tightened (you have no idea) and unfortunately the ban hammer became heavier. We just had to…. because we could not do what we were doing before with email contact to each antagonistic commentator requesting tone/subject change; That and the filth and DEATH THREATS were real. After the Joy Reid issue you outlined above, my family was physically threatened, we had one pet killed, my daughter was threatened, and the kids bus routes published…. and worse. That was when they had to leave for a few weeks and while the Admins were seriously tightening up security.

        On a side note as an fyi only. MichaelNotMike (or MnM) was banned for personally attacking Ad Rem, and posting video’s of Gay Porn after 2 email warnings. I know because I did this personally. He was not banned for his adverse opinion.

        Note to file: I am talking directly about George Zimmerman the client.

        • Let me refresh your memory. On April 6th, you posted your allegation without back-up that Mr. O’Mara orchestrated the HOA settlement behind GZ’s back. You could see no positive in this and you really wanted to talk with those who gave O’Mara benefit of the doubt to show what possible positive aspect could be derived from this.


          You posted it and made the comment on it at 2:19 a.m. on April 6th.

          Rick (who I still think is you) came onto Diwataman’s blog looking for Jello. He usually gave a positive spin to those of you who tended to see the glass as half empty all the time. What was really weird was Rick was looking for Jello and posted it at 1am. A hour and a half before Sundance posted the thread online. http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/6280/#comment-9126 “Jello, where are you?

          We need you on the Treehouse! Some things about this settlement are very disturbing. Never thought I’d say this, but some optimist wisdom is required. Kid you not!”

          2 Hours after the thread goes live, Rick (who I never had a conversation with or seen post at the treehouse) comes looking for minpin and me to come back to the treehouse and participate in the discussion. http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/6280/#comment-9144

          It devolved from there. Danny went back to give his take, you took exception to what his views were and made a thread to mock and ridicule him by 9:30 that night. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/06/good-grief-really-late-night-discussion-thread/ Rick was the first to praise you for it and the thread is full of your admins mocking and ridiculing him. Proud moment for sure for the treehouse. You showed us.

          • Ok, I see the post. Let me address the post first. You say:

            …..On April 6th, you posted your allegation without back-up that Mr. O’Mara orchestrated the HOA settlement behind GZ’s back….

            Where am I saying he is “orchestrating” or doing them “behind GZ’s back”? Those are your words not mine. I have no reason to think that GZ was not fully aware of MoM’s advice to the HOA. Quite the contrary, and quite simply, if GZ was not aware of it, I would never have found out. It’s the same reason I knew it was closer to $2 million than $1.

            The HOA settlement decision was a consequence of Mark O’Mara informing the HOA that he would not be filing for “immunity” protection. O’Mara was, in essence, advising the HOA of the defense position – in so doing he was offering his opinion.

            Knowing this was O’Mara’s opinion…… My question(s) to the reading community were #1. “does that decision infer anything from your perspective, about the veracity of O’mara’s representation?. and #2. “don’t you think the media will manipulate the settlement to make it appear George’s immunity, ergo his case, is weak”?

            Both seemed valid questions and both seemed appropriate to ask of both a community who saw O’Mara as good, and a community who did not hold high regard for O’Mara. Looking for both side of the surrounding issue.

            Additionally, I was having a hard time seeing any benefit to such a recommendation (from GZ’s perspective) perhaps driven by my own anxiety toward O’mara, and yet I was looking for a positive spin from others to dissuade such concerns.

            What could be wrong with that? I think I even clarified after posting (that’s the red wording). If my memory serves correctly the questions themselves stemmed from either a phone call, or an email, or a text message, from a GZ family member, maybe Dad, or it could have been Glady’s/Robert, who was looking for a positive side to it…. (I’m pretty sure about that – but not certain).

            As far as the Rick stuff you attach to it ((you can consider me absolutely clueless)). I don’t pay attention to who’s coming and/or going and where/why…. Not without a good reason to be looking for something – and this is the first I’m seeing of Rick seeking Jello and stuff….. I mean, why would I care? that is of no interest.

            As far as the “Good Grief” post, it was just that…. GOOD GRIEF can’t a guy ask a question without some massive nefarious intent ! ???

            I think I came here looking to see how y’all were interpreting the HOA settlement and O’mara’s involvement – looking for opinion. Instead finding only irrational, illogical refusal to think the issue even existed – and then portraying me as having made the whole thing up.

            It certainly appeared you were not willing to accept a HOA settlement had taken place, and you were darned sure not willing to accept that O’Mara gave prior approval for it.

            Subsequently the entire construct I viewed, instead of being about value and/or how the media spin could be cut off quickly etc. was dispatched to a preferred conversation about denying its existence. SMH

            Something along the lines of “JESUS H CHRIST – does this crap never end”, was probably my thinking. Having just read the Good Grief post – I think there’s enough of an explanation there to explain my position. With one addendum.

            ……..”I want to know specifically if this source is reliable. I do not need to know the source specifically. I just want to know how they know and if they are legally involved in the criminal case. I do not take SD s word on anything concerning MOM considering he has continued to attack him”…..

            Yes, the source was credible. But y’all need to remind yourself I could not openly say where stuff was coming from because both the State and the Defense team had ulterior motives – motives harmful to George Zimmerman.

            One of the frustrating aspects in this case has been people demanding proof – when providing proof would have put George Zimmerman, and or Shellie, and or their families at risk. Challenges like that always reminded me of diane Sawyer asking Norman Schwartzkopf “where are the marines landing and when will they arrive”? D’oh….. some things we just could not discuss.

            • Here’s a good example of you contradicting yourself.

              Now you tell us George was a source for you. On May 5th, a full month after the HOA dust-up you wrote this in regards to your sources at the treehouse about the family:

              “Thirdly, to address the perception of my having contact with members of the George Zimmerman family. We have never talked to, nor attempted to talk to George Zimmerman. We have talked to his father once, his mother once, and Robert Jr. perhaps three times.”

              Would this be when you prayed with them?

              You told us the family was the source for the website they launched and vouched for its authenticity. I remember that well because I got in trouble on Justice for GZ on facebook for not taking “just trust us” as an answer as to its credibility. It was Ytzmee at the treehouse who posted that. Presumably then, the parents were the source for that. Now you say George is the source for knowing it was close to 2 million dollars but in the May 5th post say you never spoke to him.
              Read more here about what he said about the sources: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/05/05/gz-case-clarifying-some-misapplied-beliefs-and-opinion/

              • As smart as you are, it is staggering to see your incapacity to reconcile the situation as it was presented and explained. Especially considering the circumstances.

                yes, It was Gladys who requested my prayer with them. She is the spiritual center of the family – the faith center. Your point?

                I’m beginning to appreciate that you will never understand, or be able to conceptually wrap your mind around the truth. There is something blocking your ability to reconcile.

                Until, and I mean this with absolute intellectual sincerity -no snark- until you grasp a basic principle:

                “Everyone, including George Zimmerman, knew that O’Mara was not necessarily looking out for GZ’s interests, he held multiple conflicts, – but they had no other option”.

                Hence they needed external pressure to assist and insure that advocacy was demanded. That was what the Treehouse provided…. constant vigilant watch. Someone to watch their six and some framework where they could ask questions, but yet deflect to so it did not appear they were asking the question(s).

                Once you can understand the surrounding narrative about being a captive to your untrustworthy protector, things will begin to make sense. Until you can add this contemplation we will be talking in circles – with no concept of understanding.

                I’m not saying you must believe me. That is not my intent. I’m saying you must hold the capacity to understand what is outlined. I am being forthright and truthful – but I am not saying you must believe me.

                However, so long as you retain this idealistic view of O’Mara, the truth will not penetrate because things will not reconcile. [Can you see now why so many needed to be purged in order to even have conversation?].

                Now don’t get me wrong, more people read between the lines, and actually “got it” than didn’t. Some people actually figured out the entire construct of what was going on [think Omar types]. But some people just could not understand the Machiavellian underpinning to the entire damned thing.

                To your direct consideration – there were people used to ferry information, which allowed plausible deniability and necessary protection at critical times. Receiving communication this way allowed for me to affirm as you say, and be honest in my delivery – It was not contradictory at all. Still isn’t.

                • You bend and twist with whatever you need to to get your point across.

                  It’s quite clear, you banned me because of my opinion of Mr. O’Mara. You told me it was because I was in your house and was rude to you. I disagree I was rude to you.

                  As to my communication with the defense as far as I know I’ve never communicated with anyone but his support staff and it was usually me emailing them things I thought might help.

                  I don’t believe the Zimmerman family viewed me as a threat to George. Bullshit on that.
                  You and your administrators have been rude to your guests, many of your guests. So many that I didn’t recognize the whole panel of posters when I was there last week.

                  What you did to George’s cousin was unacceptable. I doubt Gladys thanks you for that and if she does, she isn’t the person I thought her to be.

                  • Then she isn’t the person you thought her to be then. Yes, it was their specific request to get out ahead of “mischief managed” Christina Meza who was angry at George for years as an internal family matter because he spurned her love interest.

                    W9″s father is Glady’s younger brother. He was HORRIFIED by what his daughter did and threatened to disown her. in addition little miss mischief had posted a bunch of stuff on her facebook account after the shooting outlining how she was going to use the opportunity to get back at her cousin.

                    did you really think I could read that tattoo? C’mon,

                    They Yes, R, G and Rjr, after talking to GZ and SZ told me what that tattoo said – with W9’s father in full acceptance therein. They all wanted her taken down toot sweet.

                    Sorry to burst your world view of Gladys. But again, I don’t think you understand or appreciate the dynamic here.


                  • What you did to George’s cousin was unacceptable.

                    I usually agree with you, but not on this. Why was identifying W9 so wrong? She injected herself into the case. If there were some good reason she had to come forward, I’d feel differently, but there wasn’t. She made a very harmful accusation about GZ that had nothing to do with the 2nd degree murder charge. Why should she be able to make such an accusation from behind a shield of anonymity?

                    • 1. The person pulling her out from anonymity was hiding himself
                      2. It’s a personal private matter in the Zimmerman family and someone advocating for them exposed their dirty laundry and more about a family in hiding.(Sundance says with their permission). I’m waiting to hear verification of that.

                      Would you want your dirty family laundry exposed on the internet? Even his enemies didn’t out her.

                      Others wrote the story and the relationship but did anyone else expose her name and workplace? How does us knowing her name help George?

                      I think Sundance sprinkling sunlight on whoever he wants while hiding in the dark is hypocritical.

                    • The person pulling her out from anonymity was hiding himself.

                      That matters not one iota to me. One has nothing to do with the other. W9’s relationship to GZ mattered in evaluating her accusations. As far as I know, Sundance isn’t related to W9 or GZ in any fashion that matters, so knowing Sundance’s actual name contributes nothing to understanding the story.

                      Would you want your dirty family laundry exposed on the internet? Even his enemies didn’t out her.

                      I kind of think a load of dirty laundry was aired when W9’s accusation against GZ became public.

                      Others wrote the story and the relationship but did anyone else expose her name and workplace? How does us knowing her name help George?

                      I agree that it was probably wrong to reveal the workplace unless that was a significant aspect of the story (and I doubt it was). Stories about people almost always give their names, so revealing her name seems reasonable, though perhaps unnecessary. Once again: W9 attacked GZ with accusations having nothing to do with the charges against him. In my mind, by doing so she forfeited any right to anonymity.

                      I think Sundance sprinkling sunlight on whoever he wants while hiding in the dark is hypocritical.

                      I don’t reveal my name, but wouldn’t feel the least bit hypocritical sprinkling sunlight whenever it was within my poor power to do so.

                • “To your direct consideration – there were people used to ferry information, which allowed plausible deniability and necessary protection at critical times. Receiving communication this way allowed for me to affirm as you say, and be honest in my delivery – It was not contradictory at all. Still isn’t.”

                  LOL Gee, I hope you maintained a chain of custody for that information and that only people that were 100% beyond reproach were involved.

                  • That “reproach or trust aspect” was for the zimmerman’s to decide. I only received information. Only a handful of times did I initiate any contact – and that was by coded phone messaging system we had set up to use prior to voice call.

                    However, the admin team was privy to the email bits and they are 10,000% solid.

                    even if you think of them as arrogant, which they are not – condescending, which they are not, or self-righteous, which they have every right to be. They had a job to do, and they did it with exceptional self discipline, utmost respect, incredible fortitude and amazing grace under pressure.

          • Here’s Sundance on that same thread 2.5 hours after Rick posted on Diwataman’s site calling out for Jello, Sundance posts on his site calling out for Jello and the other posters. 1 hour later, Rick is on the site posting to minpin and me.

            sundance says:
            April 6, 2013 at 3:34 am

            “I’m serious, I was not being snarky at all. I need to see their perspective on this. I hope all the folks who believe wholeheartedly in O’Mara can provide a positive perspective on this.

            And Yeah, where the heck is Jello…. ??

            Jello, we need ya !!

    • I have so many comments to make, am sorry I can not respond atm. I have a prior engagment for this evening. But I will respond here later this evening and hope we can continue this conversation then. I feel it is most important.

  18. Always be suspicious of a man that claims to know the truth, uses a lot of words and talks about sources of information that only he is privy to. Reminds me of long ago when only the priests could read and only they could teach God’s word. Often it was just twisting or spinning what the bible said for their own advantage. Sometimes just making things up. I mean, who would be able to question the priest on what was written in the bible? And any that would dare ask questions or challenge were ridiculed, mocked and marginalized. After all, how dare they question the word of God. Actually, that happens in modern times too.

    • coreshift – another site that has a terrible reputation & has lost 1/2 of her bloggers since the KC ANT trial, was “Blink on crime.” Marinade Dave was another NUT JOB that forever made outrageous comments w/NO EVIDENCE to support his moronic opinion during K’s case & lost his bloggers, of course he was Letterman’s grunt on GZ’s case.

      Blink was a nice person & at one time had a big following, she never attacked or criticized her bloggers BUT she forever wrote articles on the case with UN NAMED sources, of course MOST of the information never materialized or was probably not even true & just her speculation because it was never part of the case & WASN’T released in discovery.

      imo, an unnamed source is the same as gossip ESPECIALLY WHEN IT NEVER MATERIALIZES. There is nothing wrong with the person making the claim to state: IMO! BLOG owners should realize once bloggers leave, rarely if ever do they go back, there’s no reason to.

    • @coreshift, what is odd is your ability to split cognition. This is really odd to witness from the GZ side of supporters – you critique the Dog Pound and that Leather man person for the exact things you are expressing here. I have presented, repeatedly, and explained, repeatedly, how you can for yourself verify everything. Giving you all the materials you could possibly need to fact-check for yourself.

      Yet you call me a priest saying it’s “my word”. If the priest told you to take his word and, yet simultaneously told you to find the truth for yourself, and gave you all of the road mapping to reach your own conclusion. Would that person be solely asking for their word to be taken?

      Again, you can call the Michael Herring law firm – it is but a phone call (a flipping lousy phone call) and inquire if he represented Shellie. If the construct is false he will not be bound by privilege to keep silent. He can freely say it’s absurd. That’s one way.

      Another way, is twitter. You all twitter. Send a tweet to Robert Jr. (I would suggest to insure a response via Direct Message) and ask him if the Shellie post is phony. That’s another way.

      Frankly it matters not to me, until I see my name posted here, and links to how to locate my family, which have already been attacked because I just didn’t sit behind a keyboard, I actually got out and did something – boots on the ground.

      Your hate and misplaced anger is putting my family at risk from similar minded trayvonite attacks again. That’s the only reason for my effort here today to provide you with some grip upon the truth that eludes you.

      • Look! Do even go there! Nobody here wants ANY harm to come to you or your family Sundance. I do not care who the hell you are in real life. We were discussing sock accounts here.

        • Really? Well maybe you should read up thread a bit where you are putting links to the Joy Ann reid article, which is based on a website she created to report on, which led to actual physical violence against myself and my family. Nobody wants harm? Then why do you support it? why do you advocate for it.?

              • Have you told Joy it led to violence? Did you press charges?

                It was posted because we were discussing you exposing others while attempting to remain anonymous. It is a stance you might want to change if you are going to shine lights on others who want to stay anonymous. Don’t you think?

                Who are you to decide to gets exposed and who gets outed? Even with Zimmerman permission. I really hope that turns out to be false.

                • Again, I repeat. What exactly is the purpose behind you promoting it?

                  Your silence in answering this question is deafening. That nagging twitch you feel is your own moral compass spinning.

                  • I am a dense prog. I have no clue what you are talking about? Could you please tell me what I am promoting? Say it slow. I may have a tough time due to my ideology and all…..

                  • Good God. What is your purpose in promoting the alleged Paypal fiasco in light of Shellie’s pending perjury charge? There was no effort on this site to dox you. There is original content on CTH that some may try and use to support a conviction of Shellie. Are you really this self-absorbed? Maybe you’re just blinded by your own light. Maybe you just don’t care because there’s a ‘greater cause’.


                    • Nothing I have written is a risk to Shellie Zimmerman. Nothing. Everything has been vetted and carefully thought through.

                      Think logically. All her perjury charges can only be based upon lies or misrepresentations, by her *in a courtroom or to the court* period.

                      The lies I am exposing, (well actually the truth being discussed) stem from Mark O’Mara. Those are no longer a risk to the Zimmerman’s.

                  • Way to ignore the point. I was responding to this post of yours.

                    “Again, I repeat. What exactly is the purpose behind you promoting it?

                    Your silence in answering this question is deafening. That nagging twitch you feel is your own moral compass spinning.”

                    My response was:

                    “Good God. What is your purpose in promoting the alleged Paypal fiasco in light of Shellie’s pending perjury charge? There was no effort on this site to dox you. There is original content on CTH that some may try and use to support a conviction of Shellie. Are you really this self-absorbed? Maybe you’re just blinded by your own light. Maybe you just don’t care because there’s a ‘greater cause’.”

                    And you respond with:

                    “Nothing I have written is a risk to Shellie Zimmerman. Nothing. Everything has been vetted and carefully thought through.

                    Think logically. All her perjury charges can only be based upon lies or misrepresentations, by her *in a courtroom or to the court* period.

                    The lies I am exposing, (well actually the truth being discussed) stem from Mark O’Mara. Those are no longer a risk to the Zimmerman’s.”

                    Don’t you get that you are ‘promoting’ the exact same (false) information that got Shellie charged w/ perjury? That there was something untoward about how the paypal account was dealt with? You suggested that MOM was behind GZ and Shellie lying (they didn’t lie), and you think that the suggestion Shellie lied b/c of something MOM told them is going to help her in her perjury charge? Are you really that fucking stupid?

                    • Firstly, nothing I have written is false. The Truth is there was something untoward in the way the PayPal account was dealt with. A bunch of stuff – all the way up to the florida Bar opening an investigation of O’Mara because of it.

                      Does that truth make me fucking stupid?

                      Did you read the basis for the PCA for Shellie?

      • “@coreshift, what is odd is your ability to split cognition. This is really odd to witness from the GZ side of supporters – you critique the Dog Pound and that Leather man person for the exact things you are expressing here. I have presented, repeatedly, and explained, repeatedly, how you can for yourself verify everything. Giving you all the materials you could possibly need to fact-check for yourself.”

        I get annoyed with hypocrisy, misinformation and spin. You have a ‘greater cause’. You have absolutely no problem doing whatever is necessary to forward that cause including the things I criticize the Traybots and Leatherheads for. And are you suggesting that Robert Jr. was privy to all of your alleged, and not direct, communications?

        “Yet you call me a priest saying it’s “my word”. If the priest told you to take his word and, yet simultaneously told you to find the truth for yourself, and gave you all of the road mapping to reach your own conclusion. Would that person be solely asking for their word to be taken?”

        I wasn’t calling you a priest. I was calling you a conman. Someone that takes advantage of others trust and faith to sell your version of truth. Which, in essence, is your political and ideological point of view. Which, come to think of it, does fit the priest paradigm I outlined.

        “Again, you can call the Michael Herring law firm – it is but a phone call (a flipping lousy phone call) and inquire if he represented Shellie. If the construct is false he will not be bound by privilege to keep silent. He can freely say it’s absurd. That’s one way.”

        I don’t care about Herring any more than I care about George’s former attorneys Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig. Remember their bitterness in their last press conference? Nobody likes to be spurned.

        “Frankly it matters not to me, until I see my name posted here, and links to how to locate my family, which have already been attacked because I just didn’t sit behind a keyboard, I actually got out and did something – boots on the ground.”

        The information linked to on this site didn’t originate on this site, but you were quick to threaten Nettles by pointing out the illegality of doxing. Something she isn’t guilty of, but you are. And you have absolutely no problem being the origin of such things. Even requesting your followers to do ‘research’ for you.. Hypocrisy.

        “Your hate and misplaced anger is putting my family at risk from similar minded trayvonite attacks again. That’s the only reason for my effort here today to provide you with some grip upon the truth that eludes you.”

        You haven’t shown any truths, I’m not angry and I don’t hate you. I just don’t like people like you. Just like I don’t like the Traybots and the Leatherheads. Many times I’ve correct pro-GZ people when they’ve spread misinformation. Can you say the same as you’ve spread your truth? Or do you just let it slide by because it’s one of those little bits of misinformation that helps the ‘greater cause’?

        You’re about agenda, not truth.

        • You obviously need to look up the term “doxing”, the legal application of the term. What is the intent? Is the activity done as part of a story, a post, an article or published work….. or is it done with specific intent to harm the person, the character, or the reputation thereof.

          “Intent” determines legal determination of activity.

          What exactly is my “agenda” in writing the facts surrounding the Shellie Zimmerman aspect ?

          • I am privy that your real name was linked to a public account that YOU signed up for and made PUBLIC ON an account. So stop having people believe anyone went out of their way to get your real name. People here know attys. as well. REAL ones. Stop threatning people with legal jargon when YOU gave the public your name inadvertantly. The intent of giving the link was for people to read the ENTIRE article to conclude for themselves your hyprocricy because you Dox a Zimmerman family member . And you claim you did that at the request of her father? The family would dox their own family who are in hiding. Dox her through you and you would do so knowing damn well you would place them and yourself at risk? You are a dumbass! Not only are you a dumbass if you really did it for that reason, you are a dumbass if you think any Atty. or cop in this nation would take a case where you want to sue or have arrested for doxing you, and you def. are dumbass for thinking anyone here is gonna believe THAT story!

  19. WWII vet, beaten by 2 black teens outside Eagles Lodge, dies

    Witnesses say Belton was in the parking lot of the Eagles Lodge at 6410 N. Lidgerwood, adjacent to the Eagles Ice-A-Rena, around 8 p.m. Wednesday when the two male suspects attacked him as he was about to head inside to play pool.


    Mr. Belton was a proud vet, fought for our freedom ONLY to be beaten by 2 black thugs. Was Mr. Belton MURDERED for the color of his skin?

    • Why would Robert Jr. tweet his thanks and appreciation for O’Mara and GZ legal team after each hearing yet privately tell SD that he was disgusted with GZ legal team, mainly O’Mara when he actually named O’Mara in his thank you tweets? It doesn’t make sense.

        • I’ve asked him:

          Were you upset with O’Mara? Was George his client by force? Did your family want W9 outed on the internet?

          I’ll let you know if I hear back.

            • For what. I’m more interested in George’s stance, not Roberts.

              I have a feeling, based on the political stance I’ve seen Robert take, him and I would disagree on a great many things. That he doesn’t like George’s choice in lawyer doesn’t require an apology from me.

              That the parents wanted their niece exposed on the internet doesn’t make you exposing her alright. It’s unacceptable.

              • No. For calling me a liar?. For calling me Rick? For spewing a false story based on your own misguided knowledge? For the personal stuff against me, not robert.. For putting down tracks for angry black men to attack my family again. for that stuff?

                  • You think this is a game? You think this is funny?

                    You think you can condescendingly back away to the exit door without accepting the construct of your insane irrational conclusions.

                    You have no idea.

                    To you this was a hobby. There were real people at risk here, and you spew this nonsense filled with vile hate and lies then tell me to go lay down?

                    This ain’t playtime.

                    • Calm down SD. We are not yet selling those targets with your face on yet.

                      I am kidding. I think we should be getting an apology out of YOU! I will not hold my breath. It seems now you are onto another conspiracy….. that you threw readers off on purpose for saftey reasons for the Zimmermans. Lie #2,405. But who is counting?

                    • sundance – your above comment is ludicrous & insulting, the reason many have left your BLOG. Let it go, go away, grow up! IF anyone from this site thought enough of you to comment on your site, they would, LMAO, that is if they haven’t been banned. MOST DON’T for ALL the reasons they have stated in their comments to you & you STILL refuse to respect or accept as constructive criticism, that’s your problem, stay in denial.

                      sundance shared: You think you can condescendingly back away to the exit door without accepting the construct of your insane irrational conclusion.

                      sundance – your bull shit insult is why you are not well thought of except by your mods that are there to kiss your ass. If you DON’T UNDERSTAND what an ass hole you sound like, that’s unfortunate for you, your insults show your lack of character.

                      You aren’t the smartest guy in the room sundance, WE ALL GET IT & know that but you don’t! BUT! you are certainly the most arrogant & assine.

          • Why don’t you ask him logical direct questions instead of opinion questions?

            * Did your family tell sundance about w9?
            * Was Mike Herring Shellies first attorney?
            * Did you warn O’Mara about the PayPal Omission?

            These are fact based questions without opinion slants.


    Don’t Ignore Race in Christopher Lane’s Murder

    The association of young black men with violence doesn’t come out of thin air

    The numbers don’t lie: young black men do commit about 50% of the murders in the U.S. We don’t yet know whether the attack on Lane was racially motivated, nor can we know whether the three black boys who attacked a white boy on a Florida school bus recently would not have done the same to a black kid. (Critics took Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to task for not condemning the violence.) But hardly uncommon are cases such as the two black guys who doused a white 13-year-old with gasoline and lit him on fire, saying “You get what you deserve, white boy” (Kansas City, Mo.) or 20 black kids who beat up white Matthew Owens on his porch “for Trayvon” (Mobile, Ala.).


    I’m SHOCKED to see TIME Magazine address the racial aspect in reporting, imo, TIME has always been uber liberal imo & I canceled my subscription, I am glad to see this tragedy addressed. This has to be hurting the cause Sybrina/Tracy are promoting imo. This case is just heartbreaking, a college kid doing everything right is robbed of his future by 3 “wannabe gangsters” wanting to join the Crips that hated white people.

    • Color me shocked but pleased. Maybe people are catching on to the idea that the violent subculture is, indeed, both real and widespread. Duncan, Oklahoma ain’t Detroit. Scary.

        • I don’t have any data in front of me, but my perception is that they are escalating in frequency. My own perception is that the culture and subculture have coarsened considerably and at an increasing rate. I also believe that there is a tacit approval being broadcast from the highest levels that ‘revenge’ is appropriate. Confirmation bias, perhaps, but I try not to ignore my gut too often.

          I think the traditional media is, ahem, whitewashing many of these events. Thank goodness for the new media!

        • I think there is a little of both. It is harder for mass media to ignore these type of incident due to the internet. The actions of the media after the TM shooting and to some extent after the verdict has put the media in an awkward position, that in order to appear to maintain its objectivity it has to report on them.

          But the Chris Lane case is different because even if the US media does not cover it, the International media will, this puts more pressure on them to cover the story. Especially after the glee they went after GZ. There is also another benefit of covering the story they can try to guide and shape the story, if they ignore it others will.

  21. An 89 year old WWII vet was beaten on the Parking lot of an Egles Lodge by two 16-19 year old black males. He was taken to the hospital but later died from his head injuries. They have yet to catch the two black males.



    I hope that Sybrina, Tracy, Crump, NatJac have the sense to know that they have the blood of innocent people on their hands. They really do. They made this racial hatred come alive, and are still pushing it every chance they get. They must be held to account.

  22. Wow. Sundance was NON–Doxed here. Poor guy. Dumbass confirms things we really did not even know then makes us edit it! OMG. This deserves the CAMPFIRE SONG!

  23. I’d like to thank Nettles for allowing us to have a conversation that we couldn’t, for whatever reasons, have on CTH. I’d also like to thank Sundance for participating in it. Isolation of political viewpoints and ideology leads to stagnation and lack of progress. Let’s keep the convo going.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s