Home » Uncategorized » AGENDAS


Cartoon by Joe Heller, Green Bay Press-Gazette.

As many of us have noted, anyone who wants their “issue” talked about just has to invoke the Zimmerman or Trayvon name into their agenda for it to get some attention.

Over the last several weeks, we’ve been discussing emails received by some who may have had an agenda in trying to control the online discussion on various blogs. The use of sock puppet accounts, leave the possibility of trying to insert a hidden agenda into online discussions. They try to influence the beliefs and attitude of others.

I often wondered if some of the online commenters were members of the Martin family. I’m 98% certain, I talked with some of the family members online on facebook. The persons were far too emotionally invested in the narrative to have been strangers to the family. Their behavior went beyond that of a stranger. I wondered if the prosecutors weren’t posting online to direct the conversation or maybe even the defense team.

I did recommend one time that the defense join one of the non-public facebook groups so they could be aware of what we GZ supporters were sharing in there. I thought at times, some of the family correspondence with others, was putting GZ in jeopardy. The response I got back was that would be deceitful. They weren’t prepared to do anything that they felt they couldn’t defend.

That was put to the test when they emailed Carole Green to rally some supporters and I made that request publicly known. The defense didn’t back away from what they did or deny it. They owned it and they posted on their website a public appeal for help in fighting the gag-order.

When I posted about the case online, in the beginning, I posted on facebook. I used my real-life facebook account and it never occurred to me to use a fake I.D. There did come a time when I seriously contemplated using another account to protect my friends and family from harassment and to be quite honest, to protect myself in defending how much of my time I spent discussing the case with others. My friends and family thought I was crazy to get so involved in a case from another country. Perhaps they are right. But if I had to do it over again, I’d get just as involved.

What I came to believe was I was witnessing an absolute public lynching of an innocent man. A man who truly shot in self-defense and a pack of lies being sold to the public by media with an agenda, politicians with an agenda, lawyers with an agenda, and as it turns out, bloggers with an agenda.

I decided to keep posting under my real identity. While it does have it drawbacks, it kept me honest. I couldn’t pretend to be a personality with one group, while pretending to be someone else with another group. While I get mad, like most, I knew my nieces and nephews read what I posted. So it kept me civil (for the most part) in my discussions with those I disagreed with.

The online discussions are so uncivil at times and this is because, in my opinion, people don’t think they will be found out as to who they are.

I can’t imagine living in such a way. Social media has given us, the public, the means to shine light on the entity that was suppose to keep those in power, in line, the media. Now we can disclose with each other their agendas and why we need to question what we see on the news and read in the papers. We can hold them accountable and ensure careers get ended if blatant disregard for the truth is manipulated.

I hope twitter, facebook, blog software providers, find a way to clamp down on fake identities online. All the anonymous voices with their hidden agendas are confusing the public. If we have an agenda, it should be honestly stated and each reader can decide whether it’s valid or not.

Until these controls are put in place, I encourage anyone who is truly interested in bringing the facts and the truth to light, to refrain from using multiple identities, post in a way anyone in your life would be proud of and always state honestly where you are coming from.

As readers of online content, we have to be aware of those commenters who are less than honest and have hidden agendas. Always look for the source of the information and judge for yourself if it is valid or not.

The media overall is doing a disgraceful job in bringing facts to the public. It seems too many are now posting their opinions rather than the facts. We do have power over them. We can choose to not buy their material, until and unless, they go back to the days of reporting facts, leaving the consumer to draw their own opinions. Reporters should leave us guessing, do they vote right or left?

In today’s world, finding the truth is getting harder and harder to attain. Finding opinions take a nano-second.

To those who engage in multiple online identities, I encourage you not to add to the problem of finding the truth. State your opinions honestly and be prepared to back-up or defend your position. Keep yourself honest and civil by allowing anyone who personally knows you to read everything you write. Trying to manipulate unsuspecting readers only puts you in the same boat of the media we criticize.

For those using the Zimmerman or Trayvon name to give their agenda some clout, I think ultimately you will fail. For anything to succeed it must be built on a foundation of truth. Having said that, I’m left scratching my head that Crump and Co. has been successful in getting an estimated $5 million dollars for the Trayvon Foundation.

A kid who assaulted another and died as a result, is being heralded a martyr by some. When will people wake up? Has the world gone mad?


243 thoughts on “AGENDAS

    • This begs the question as to why the media isn’t digging for the truth in this. My lord, another citizen could be a defendant in this office’s web of lies and deceit. The games they are playing with discovery, with the blessing of a judge is appalling.

      Why Judge Nelson wouldn’t address the issue of the hospital stay being kept unknown for 6 months is evidence of the judge blessing the conduct. She allowed BDLR to lie to the court saying he “forgot” to disclose it to the defense. He learned of it on the August 2nd visit of Jeantel to Jacksonville and he didn’t remember it until the eve of the motion to compel evidence of it in February 2013. We are to believe he forgot when the defense asked for it August 23rd, September 10th and mutliple times thereafter.

      God help anyone who is a defendant against this office of abusers. The media doesn’t appear to want to pursue the issue to protect the public. Good on Sundance for trying.

      • I say good for Sundance also. Anyone who tries to shed light on the disgraceful antics of Angela Corey et al has my respect. And good for you Nettles! Your lead in comments might open some eyes, and I hope do some good. At any rate it must have helped lift your spirits also by getting it all out in the open. Good job as always. 🙂

    • I would love the media to research the past occasions on which murder 2 charges were brought based on a witness that was never questioned by law enforcement. Or whose age and name were unknown. I wouldn’t know how to find this out. Maybe Legal Insurrection has covered this….? I was a latecomer to these blogs, so I definitely have gaps in my understanding here and there.

      It does look like this Cotto fellow at the Washington Times will cover this saga. That is something.

    • It might seem like a good thing for Cotto to be writing about TCTH activity in getting the info from the 4th District SAO, but it’s not. Cotto was the guy who tipped off Corey’s office several months ago by asking her to provide a comment to one of our outlines. Suffice to say it was not a helpful addition.

      There is an odd difficulty in getting information and engaging with readers, to provide updates, while you are investigating/researching, and yet the goal of finding the truth can easily be compromised by too much publicity toward the endeavor.

      In M-DPD this was most evident with Detective Manfresa who was the guy in charge of robbery/stolen merchandise identification. He was lying through his teeth about the Martin Jewelry and the victim.

      Unfortunately, likewise In Jacksonville, the Records Requests should be anticipated to be heavily manipulated. I even have a Sheriff Officer who has confirmed the manipulation of the records requests itself. Think about that. The cops know the SAO is lying, have admitted to deception, and yet the police do…. what?…. (((nothing)))

      What did the District Attorney in Miami-Dade do with the admitted illegal activity of the M-DSPD, the Police Chief and the School Board? (((nothing)))

      Why? Because they all feed from the same trough. The pellets in the trough are corrupt.

      • Sundance,
        This is my issue with you. If the truth is really what you sought you would have never connected the FOIA to your blog until AFTER you had what you needed for such commentary. In the end you f#&$ed it up for anyone else who also requested that information. Which is exactly why you made video to see the roll @ SOA! Thanks for nothing!

        • @Danny, You are wrong; and your cognitive reconciliations in that regard reflect an inability to grasp large concepts.

          The 4th SAO will hide information – this is a predictable outcome. How do you identify this? By talking to people in advance and thoroughly understanding the risks which are present to the participants. [ There is a lot of research, contacting, discussion and conversation which takes place prior to sending a records request ]

          If you just submit a request you will NOT get the stuff you want. Once the SAO takes a position, they cannot reverse themselves.

          So if you don’t get the information you cannot call them out on what they are hiding. Well, you can, but the approach is futile because they are not going to admit hiding information and breaking the law.

          So the question becomes what process do you follow that allows a better chance at getting to the truth?

          A historically effective approach we have used is to: publicize the fact that you already know what exists, in such a manner that they become aware of what you know. *THEN* you send the request. etc etc…

          Everything outlined, and publicized, in the entire process is as much for *their* reading, as it is for the general site visitor. Think about it that way.

          What is written about, is done so expressly because it changes the behavior of the opposition (who are reading). It’s not just willy nilly. It is a strategy, a process, a well thought out process.

          The effectiveness of which is outlined by confirmations from within the SAO offices.

          Speaking of “nothing”, exactly what are *YOU* doing to push back against the corruption? You seem so willing to sit in the bleachers and bark opinions, maybe you should climb down off your perch and actually DO SOMETHING. If not – your criticism is, well,… shallow at best.

          • Sundance, it seems like you and DiwataMan have been sort of the Copernicus and Galileo of this epic case.
            I have absolutely no idea how you accomplished some of the things you did. Which as a result means I would never have taken the initiative to do any of it. Would it be possible to create a space where you teach others a little of how to do some of what you did? I don’t know that people’s professions added to their successes here, perhaps personal and professional contacts, or technical training — I know pretty much nothing about anybody’s background. It does seem that perseverance and mapping things out on puzzle boards seem crucial.
            Anyway this was a thought I have had — be you the “be your own sundance/diwataman” ongoing workshop, if any of this stuff is transmissible to others.

      • I’m sorry I contributed to the article’s visibility! In the future, I won’t link to any articles relating to the TCTH if the information hasn’t been made public in the Tree House itself.

        • Don’t be silly. If the article(s) are written [by the Cotto types] the horse is already out of the barn per se’.

          Cotto is just frustrated because he has sent numerous emails, we have refused to assist him, and we rarely engage media – which he finds very annoying. [ But the problem is the media in a general sense are filtering raw intel ] He also appears lazy and unwilling to invest his own energy in the story.

          He writes first-hand accounts based on the research efforts of others *as if* he is doing the researching. That’s lazy.

      • JFP, he was a disgrace to say the least. I do not think it was who Nettles thinks, majority do not, she is aware, and if anybody had the opportunity to connect the dots with a nail in the coffin it was Nettles. I suspect they are aware they could dupe her. And indeed they have which is why they took a walk kinda od besides the other 3-4 usernames they use here. I talked about socks way before anyone. I do think it is a very well know source close to SD but it is not SD, and that person gave SD reign on their original blog, which many left. That person came here as well just recently under their original name and many were star stuck.

        • Thank you Danny for your reply. I did not know about what they were doing here. I only recently came here and posted because I was mentioned. I only know what he was doing to me. I do think it was some kind of adm. in my case because they found out personal information about me, like my address. I believe Rick is the two people I encountered at CTH and Click Orlando about a year ago. Rick used the same phrase about me recently that they had used. I love both George and Shellie. I was upset recentlhow much hatred was directed at Shellie. There is more than meets the eye there and you seem to be on that. They are both human and make mistakes just like the rest of us.

          • I kinda drew you here. I apologize. But yes, I do think some are weary of Shellies motives. Without taking into account her postition and her experience. Unless you know the back story, (and some are either willing to see GZ as a human, or not, or to have a specific expectation, or not) my POV is questionable. I think you understand that my source was correct and my reason in divulging that I knew a back story. As you already know, some are in this for personal interest and as I said and you know the source of your suffering IS as source close to SD and I think you know who. I am done placating. I found I am a better warrior on my own.

            • No need to apologize. I realize there are those who don’t understand me. If I had not been drawn here I would never have connected the dots about Rick being others. I really don’t know who it is. I wish I knew. I know some of them don’t like me but I am not sure which one it is that is Rick.And yes there is a back story about Shellie. More facts need to surface before judgement is passed on her solely. Everything I posted was true. Omara has had the information on the phones but it was not used in trial because I guess he had enough without bringing it to light. Nelson would not have let him anyway. If I ever positively identify who Rick is I will let you guys know and I hope you guys do the same. Someone has been playing games that are not nice and contribute nothing to the conversation. Good luck in you endeavors.

          • In the end….. it is all old news. I opened and posted to my blog for a reason. Sundance, Rick, and Dman did not come here because Nettles supported George Zimmerman, or Mark Omara. Go back. My blog is open. Because beyond that I am done discussing it. I do not feel I need to expose myself. Someone else does and they KNOW they can not….hence that is why I spoke about thunderf00t! Divorce thread stuck @ the end….hint…….
            As for who Rick is…. there is only one person who knows I have the capability to track even those who go through proxies.

  1. I got a farewell thread from DannyWarrior. I responded to it and it went into moderation. I just checked to see if it ever got posted and see the thread went offline.

    Feel free to post here again Danny. Even if your opinion differs from mine, I want commenters here to speak their mind. Where it gets out of line is personally attacking others because they differ or asking others to hold their opinions so someone else’s agenda can thrive.

    All the best to you Danny. Please come back when you feel the time is right. George has so little voices for him, I hate to see a differing of opinion shut any voice down on his side. Until then, be well Danny. ♥

      • We have to let him speak for himself, but I think he does. Where he differed was on whether Shellie should be held accountable for getting George detained at gunpoint. He didn’t like that I and some others took George’s side in that. He cautioned us to withhold opinion. When we didn’t, he personally attacked some and then publicy left.

            • There are some truths in that comment. I am a foreigner but I speak up for those gun rights in the USA.

              However, there is another Australian, who is extremely ignorant I might add, who has been going to blogs and posting all sorts of irrelevant information.

              My comment has come down to recognizing that most of the gun violence comes from the use of illegal guns, rather than from acquiring legal guns.

              The other issue that I see is very relevant when it comes to mass shootings is the mental fitness of the perpetrator. Here I would add that in a lot of cases drug taking has had a role.

            • There is no conspiracy. Everyone is placed into moderation now, as I will not be attending to the blog as often. I forgot to hit update when I edited my typos. That is where that thread went.
              To answer some questions:
              ~Yes, I still believe GZ acted in self defense.
              ~No, I did not leave soley because of what occured here on another thread. I have much tougher skin then that. I left for a few reasons. One of them were because of some posters here who can not self regulate. I do not have time for high school drama, and untrue accusations.
              ~There are a few things I have learned after a year and a half about some blogger/posters. Some post/ comment for sheer conversation. And some do so to have control over the commentary. The commentary became controlled through some who just “had” to comment at a time when limited info. was yet available. Instead of taking what I was saying as a gesture, some felt I was attempting to shut them down. If mob rules. Mob rules. I move along.
              ~Last, but not least. I just do not feel my input here is useful anymore. So therefore, I have no issue moving along to a place where I can be useful. I dislike having to avoid certain conversations and people.
              If I feel my input puts people off on their own journey, or if people decide to take their own journey without such input, my resources are always useful with another group. I do not want to offend anyone who still sees this to be just about GZ. This is not my blog. I do not want to steer conversation against the blogs POV. That is fine with me. There are many others who are more in line with my POV on this specific matter and I prefer not to argue with any supporter. My purpose is not to change anyones mind. My purpose is to discuss what is on mine.

              Just wanted to stop in and clear these things up.

              Take Care everyone. It was my pleasure to discuss the cases and support GZ through the railroading. Now that he is free from this case, I just have no desire to protect/ discuss his every move, be it a failure or success just like the media is. This blog has taken that route. Which is fine for those who want that. I truly mean no offense.
              Thank you for the farwell wishes. It was a pleasure. I wish you the best here and in the future. Thank you for the invite, but I just am going to move along.
              You just have some posters that just rub me the wrong way. They are negative. I dislike it. Am I am self regulating and moving along. It would only be a matter of time before the worst is drawn out of me yet again by those posters. Wish I could have left on a better note. But it is what it is.

              Take care,

        • Thanks but this is too complex for me. I liked Danny and respected many of his views. I think I will leave it that way. I saw a post about Rick Madigan closing up shop, too. Can that easily be explained?

              • What an incredibly nice thing to say. Thank you Jordan.

                The truth of the matter is I don’t know for sure. Justfactsplz would also dearly love to know the truth about him.

                Unless and until he tells us exactly what and who he was, it’s left to our own speculation.

                I think he was a sock puppet of Sundance’s. Not many others agree.

                    • Well, she was someone who went along with the position that MOM was not as active as he should have been. You may recall, I reached a point at which I tried to avoid that controversy and stood on the sidelines so I never once confronted her with that. Her position on MOM seemed to be in concert with Rick’s. So why did he attack her?

                      Rick remains an enigma to me.

                  • Rick M. not only said not nice things. He used verbatum some things that were said to me way back in the beginning by someone who was trying to get me to quit posting. That person used two different identities to try to scare me and humiliate me. I thought Rick could be that person again.

                    • You are not the kind of person who would be easily humiliated or intimidated. IIRC, you were consistent in whatever you said. I know nothing about anyone trying to stop you from posting. How did they do that and why target you?

                    • SD did treat him with respect. He made some remarks about women and about the time two threads were removed. I don’t know if they were removed because of his remarks or all of the hateful posts in general about the Shellie deal. People were acting like Trayvonites.

                    • In reply to your other comment. I was targeted about the time I came to CTH by a person there and he came over to Click Orlando and tried to scare me off saying he knew where I lived and all kinds of stuff. Mung told him to lay off. He made two posts to me at Click Orlando and several days worth at CTH. When I hung in there he just suddenly disappeared from CTH. But one of the phrases Rick said to me was the same as that person. I don’t even remember the handle he used at Click Orlando but I will never forget the one he used at CTH. He tried to plaster my identity out there as a way to scare me.

                    • I do recall that you were concerned about your safety and your location being exposed because I offered you safe refuge in my home but I did not know that someone online had actually confronted you. I assume you reported all of this to LE but did you ever hear from the person again?

                    • No I didn’t. Some of my family had death threats even on a child and the police did nothing. Those threats were online. I have not had any in over a year and I am safe. I don’t do facebook for that reason.

  2. Nettles, you are truly emotionally involved in this case.. much more than the average poster, I suspect.. . but I do so much admire your ability to separate emotions from facts. That said. you also have incredible insight and knowledge and know how to express it in writing.

    For now, I am going to sit on the sidelines and watch as things unfold. I honestly have nothing much to add to the discussion any more except for opinion and perhaps an occasional link to America’s past history. I do hope to contribute whenever I can.

    I hope that eventually the true “bad guys” will be held accountable for the malicious prosecution of a citizen named George Zimmerman. There are many of them…. Crump and his entire scheme team, Angela Corey, BLDR and other State participants, well known private citizens with great influence , important political figures starting at the top.. our POTUS and AG… .I am sure you all know the rest.

    I do want to thank everyone here who finds and posts current links to relevant articles and other discussions. It is nice to know that others here who have the time will do that work for us.

    I do occasionally visit other other blogs but I I view this one as a “one stop shop” for those who are interested in the case.

    Remember that I had to do a search to find you, Nettles, when you left the CTH but I have never looked back insofar as which blog is my favorite. Your first comments over there were enough to get my undivided attention, and I suspect a lot of others, too.

    My friend, bori, lets me know if I get too far behind so thanks also to the close friends I have found here.


    • “Nettles, you are truly emotionally involved in this case.. much more than the average poster, I suspect

      Jordan, I can’t argue with that. My desire to be heard in this case has made me a tweeter, blogger, commenter on blogs, joiner of facebook groups, video producer and recorder and donor of my hard-earned money. Yep, I’m invested alright!

      This case is just so blatantly unfair. It angers me the level of lies and corruption helped by so many that are suppose to minimize lies and corruption. I don’t care if I’m the only person in the world who sees it. I will be heard! LOL

    • One way to keep this in the public view AND ALSO to possibly eventually prove what actually happened is for George to file a never ending stream of civil suits. It would not bore me in the least.

    • In addition to posting the corrections to the CNN “updated” article on their blog, Robert and Gladys should contact CNN directly and ask CNN to make the correction.

      That puts the ball back in CNN’s corner and they have to make a decision whether to correct their article to bring into conformity with the facts, or leave an article that they have been told, and which know otherwise to be incorrect.

        • Yes, it would be a notice – but they have to be reminded exactly what they have screwed up (now).

          Usually, this type of error is due to laziness, incompetence, and insubstantial editorial supervision.

          CNN and the other media outposts are constantly barraged from left to right for various errors, real and perceived. They tend to tune out a lot of it as just part of the “background noise” that comes with their job. So you have to be specific, and continue to follow up.

      • I wish you were correct, hooson, but how many corrections about the facts have you seen made by anyone on MSM so far? I have emailed the writers of quite a few such articles and I think Nettles has, too, along with the rest of us. We were trying to do that collectively for a brief period of time.

        All I ever heard was crickets.

        In fairness, Nettles may have had a few victories in getting corrections/retractions so maybe she can add this issue.

        • Jordan –

          I haven’t kept track of any corrections, if any have been made by the media, so I cannot give you an intelligent answer.

          You are very correct in pointing out the difficulty in getting the major media to make corrections. A request for a correction from Gladys and George gets more attention than such a request from an unknown poster, even if that poster identifies him or herself.

          With regards to CNN, you have a built in direct link between RZjr and Piers Morgan and his producers that could be utilized. Robert, who has made himself available to CNN on multiple occasions, would be a good person to ask Piers to cut through the red tape to get that item corrected. And in the process Piers and some others would get at least a partial education on some of these structural deficiencies in the reportage of the case.

          Your efforts always help, Jordan, even if they are not acknowledged, and even if it seems that they have no effect. The collective effort has effect. The fact-challenged side is busy complaining on their end.

    • Ugh…

      “Only a select few are able to say they know what happened during the altercation between the 17-year-old Martin and Sanford Police Officer Zimmerman.”




      After all this time, these journalists still don’t even have the basic facts straight.

      • Rene was also quoted saying the federal court has resolved the issue.

        I am going to email all the local reporters and ask them to discuss with us here online the reporting in this case. Hopefully some of them will be motivated to explain their positions and answer our questions.

        • Also according to the article, reporter Kathi Belich was candid –

          “The state confused the jury,” Belich said. “They changed the way they did things, they hid evidence, and they engaged in unethical conduct, all eyes were on them.”

  3. Oh Canada.

    Back in the day….. when my life was about me, I was a mountaineer. On a trip to explore Alberta and the Canadian Rockies we got ripped off of all our gear and money when at a club listening to music. The manager made us put our packs in the coat room, and someone helped themselves. So we wander around till the banks opened and could get money wired to us. This was the old days.
    Cut to the chase. We were killing time waiting for the wired funds poking around downtown Jaspar, in the mountain shop we met the manager, he took us home to stay, introduced us to his mountaineering friends, who outfitted us for a week trip into a hut up in the alpine glaciers. It was wonderful. So kind and generous. He asked me if I wanted to stay in Canada he would marry me so I could. Maybe I should have given that a second thought.

      • I was once featured on the front page of the Money Section in USA Today, along with a full color photo. The article was really only about people who traveled a lot. I had over 5 million frequent miles at the time …1989…. and the focus of the story was on elite card benefits and how people like myself always sat in first class seats and stayed in the best hotel suites without ever paying for them. I guess it made me appear to be a rich jet setter. LOL.

        I received marriage “proposals” all of sorts and quite a few from European women. I was away at the time the article appeared and when I returned, my office manager had given up on taking notes and began to actually record some of them. What a hoot!!!

        The calls were from all kinds of people who I did not know but some claimed they did and were “down and out.” I never responded to any of them except for a few charities.

        You NEVER want your picture on the front page of any newspaper or magazines unless you want to get married. LMAO.

          • I loved it while I was doing it because it was my own business. My oldest daughter often traveled with me or flew to whatever city in the US I was staying for weekends while she was in school. She had 2 million miles when she was 14, and by then, had I already been from Australia to Europe. So I have fond memories of taking her to so many places. I was not married so that made things very simple for me.

            I now hate going anywhere near airports but back then we were all treated very well. It really was exciting to go somewhere and equally as exciting to return home. I always considered myself a homebody .. really.

            I cannot even imagine being on over 300 flights in one year but I did that once and spent 200 nights with Marriott. That’s a lot of travel. However, I know of a few people who traveled a lot more than I did.

    • My memories of Jaspar are a little bit different. We actually stayed in a very classy establishment, but I wish we had been downtown instead!!

      The hotel where we stayed was in the Jaspar national park. It was a very hot day. There was no air conditioning in our room because air conditioning was forbidden.

      Ah Jaspar. It was great for an overnight stay… and the top of Whistler was a great view!!

        • Well, it is true!!

          Temperatures were in the 90s in that area. It reached 98 at Lake Louise!!

          I am not kidding. We were there in July 2009. In Montreal the weather was cool. As soon as we hopped on the train to Jasper, and did the Rocky Mountaineer, it was a whole different story!!

          If you think no one will swallow that story, then they will have a harder time swallowing the story that Seattle reached close to 100F during that same period. We passed through on the day that it reached the record temperature!! Got into Seattle station just as the baseball had finished and that caused a delay in getting a taxi to take us to overnight accommodation.

          Then during the next part of our trip, when we were on the train to L.A. the temperatures were so hot, the air-conditioning in the car that was close to the dining car (a kind of lounge arrangement), broke down!!

          L.A. was hot as expected. We spent a day in L.A. prior to our flight home….

          …. and on that score…. I had about 1 hour to celebrate my birthday because the flight was delayed. Then we crossed the International dateline 😦

  4. Nettles, I just read again your opening statements. Your comments are interesting and also thought provoking. You expounded on people posting on the internet who were not who they claimed to be. Do you think that anyone from the Martin family ever posted here or any of the blogs that supported George’s innocence?

    And, do you know for sure, that people who did not support his innocence regularly posted on any “our” blogs? I would be interested to see such comments, including Facebook, and how they disguised themselves to remain active members of any community. I might learn more about impostors, moles and trolls.

    • I don’t believe I ran into any Martin family members on the blogs. But I do think they conversed with me online on facebook.

      I was consistent in pointing to Tracy’s inconsistencies. There were about 4 commenters that really really took those comments personal. The blow-back from them was quite intense and very personal.

      My work got contacted to advise how I was spending my time online. I started getting a lot of hang-ups at work from phone numbers in the United States. Once, while posting on facebook, a commenter knew I was out of my office until Friday. The only way she/he could have known that was to listen to my voice-mail. Here’s the posts (Van Kirk is the name of the street my workplace is located on) https://annettekblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/capture3.jpg

      The charity that I gave time to (@knights_table) got tweeted about the racist volunteer named Annette. They sent tweets for months warning black people at the soup kitchen to not eat my donated food. They tweeted reporters my comments and it went on for months. Here’s a sample. https://annettekblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/nell.jpg

      I was the 2011 Volunteer of the year at the Knights Table so they knew me well and knew the truth about me and they knew the harassment I was getting for my support of George Zimmerman.

      My nieces were inboxed about what a racist Aunt they had. It was way over to the top and it went on for months and months; from September until about January.

      At one point, I was phyiscally threatened and I took legal action. That was resolved very quickly to my complete satisfaction.

      Either these commenters on facebook were family members or I suspected Natalie Jackson and her elk. I’ve seen some evidence that Natalie was behind a blog but as far as I know I didn’t converse with her online.

      Out of the blue one day, she tweeted out a slur about me and another person. To my knowledge, I’d never conversed with her online, but the tweet told me she knew me and she wasn’t happy with me.

      Over the course of months, I began to learn that so many people were posting under fake identities. Some for a very good and legitimate reason. Others, not so much.

      • This has been quite an adventure for you. Holy cow. You really do have quite a story to tell, Annette.

        Some of those tweets are over the top. I remember you saying before that you had been threatened and that other things had happened to you and your family, but I had no idea it was this extensive.

        At the end of the day, what did any of those people accomplish aside from just being vile human beings? That is what troubles me…… all of the hatred that exists in our society.

        For people to make it an ongoing “mission” to do these things to you only shows us that there are some really dangerous people out there. The soup kitchen thing makes absolutely no sense.

        Now I am curious to ask you the same questions about the prosecution team doing this sort of thing on sites that supported George. Were any of them planted to influence people’s thinking?

        • I have no proof to provide but I’ve always been suspicious that a strategy to separate George from his lawyers was in play in June 2012. I recall watching BDLR and the Judge kind of tag team with glowing statements of Mr. O’Mara and slandering statements of George Zimmerman. They left the message that O’Mara with us, and you are alone Zimmerman.

          I wasn’t watching the comments closely at the treehouse when the first fall-out of those supporting Mr. O’Mara happened but I recall when I did visit, one of the first voices I sought out was ItsMichaelNotMike. He got banned. I’ve heard differing accounts and the reason doesn’t really matter at this stage.

          Both AJ (a facebook friend) and I went looking for Michael in July 2012. We found him and we shared on facebook Michael’s explanation for what he thought was a strategy to separate GZ from his legal counsel. To leave George feeling utterly alone and vulnerable to take a plea.

          I always wondered if the prosecution exploited the doubt or they caused the doubt, they saw at the treehouse and whether BDLR and company used it to discredit O’Mara who was to be the voice of GZ. If people didn’t trust O’Mara, the state had a better chance of winning their case.

          It’s all speculation but I’d love to find Michael’s theory on that again. It was well-written and made a lot of sense to a number of us.

            • Jordan, I think this is the site where AJ and I found Micheal’s comments.

              I found this thread and its interesting to read the prospective of those who got banned from the CTH last July 2012.


              I’ll keep looking through the July threads there b/c I know it was after he left the treehouse I read what Michael thought the state was intentionally doing to make Zimmerman feel totally and utterly alone.

            • On that link, click on the comments at the bottom and then click the wordpress symbol to reveal the comments made using wordpress. ItsMichealNotMike posted there about his views on leaving the treehouse.

              • Thank you.

                I did not understand what you meant about the WP symbol but I read through all of the posts. I recognized some names from the CTH. I never did see that ban list. Did you? I had no idea all of this was going on, particularly emails from SD. I still do not know what his agenda truly is. He remains an enigma to me and the CTH is more controversial than ever.

                George is probably damn lucky to have gotten through all of this and be free, especially with so many people, in a sense, fighting against him. Not the best choice of words but you know what I mean. I am still stunned that no one has done anything about what the state so obviously conspired to do.

                • “I never did see the ban list. Did you?”

                  No. Had I seen this and those emails, I doubt I would have participated at the treehouse.

                  I had been reading there prior to this event and maybe even posted some but I wasn’t paying attention when this all went down.

                  I do recall it being discussed on facebook and I posted the treehouse lost me when they asked for donations to George be stopped and accused O’Mara of working against his client and to prove it……”the glance”.

                  When I realized the site pissed off the dog pound and Frances Robles in late October, I purposely started to voice my opinions there more. I thought their strategy of linking me to the site was a way of bullying both of us and I wasn’t going to be bullied.

                  After a short time, I found I really liked the people who posted there.

                  • How do you keep up with everything so it’s handy enough for you to post almost immediately when needed? You have great organizational and research skills.

                    I would be interested to know what blogs you actively follow.

                    At one point, I was trying to follow five, but at some point, the CTH fell by the wayside. It grew very rapidly at one point and I found it impossible to read all of the comments and follow the other blogs, too. Once in a while, I scan some of the threads but I no longer see my friends there so I guess they moved along. For certain, it you do not agree with their ideology and abide by their rules, it is not the place to be.

                    • I don’t know how to answer how I keep up. Google is my friend. When someone mentions something, I can put enough search terms in to find the link I need quickly. That’s it I guess.

                      I didn’t know what a blog was before this case. The first blog I posted on was the treehouse. I read there sporadically. I follow Boricuafudd, DannyWarrior and Diwataman’s blogs.

                    • DMan does not seem to be active like he once was. Like you, he also has great organizational skills. There is a lot of information at his site for anyone wanting to do any research.

                      I know you must also keep up with Stately Manor and Legal Insurrection, right?

                    • Yes, you are right. I follow Mr. McDaniel’s too at Stately Manor.

                      No I haven’t read at Legal Insurrection but I follow one of their lawyers on twitter, Andrew Branca.

                    • They both seemed sure that Shellie would be found not guilty so that surprised me. I never expected that and still do not know exactly why she made a deal if she was innocent.

                    • I read at Rumpole’s site occasionally and Talk Left too. I never did get posting at those sites and after taking on so many other tech. skills, I just never looked into how to post.

                      It’s probably simply as pie, but I like to post links and Jeralyn told me the format in the way I post them messes up the site. Rather than take the time to learn I mainly became a reader at those sites.

                  • @Nettles, stop. Please. Just Stop. You say:

                    …. and I posted the treehouse lost me when they asked for donations to George be stopped…..

                    That never happened. Period. For you to continue spouting that disinformation is reflective of something…. and “that something” is not good.

                    Perhaps I’ll try one more time to explain, and perhaps it might put this nonsense about O’mara to rest. All of this I have previously outlined.

                    In April 2012 I was a strong advocate for O’Mara (go look)
                    In May 2012 I was a strong advocate for O’Mara (go look)
                    In June 2012 I was still an advocate for O’Mara despite the fact his mistakes had landed his client back in jail. But I became curious of his mistakes and the words he was using to talk to the media about his client.

                    When GZ, and innocent man, was back in jail, and when MoM gave an interview that did not show too much concern about GZ being back in jail, that’s when I decided to get in my car and find out *first hand* more about this O’Mara attorney – So I drove to Orlando and stayed for 3 days.

                    I spoke to a judicial clerk from Judge JR’s office. That clerk alerted me to the connection between O’mara, Najame, Natalie Jackson, and Greg Francis.

                    I asked a lot of questions and was directed to talk to additional clerks and staff at the Orlando courthouse. So I did.

                    From those conversations it became apparent that my opinion of MoM was not based on the actual substance of MoM. I was also alerted to two former employees (left on their own, and good terms) of MoM. One was in college planning for law school, another was working as a paralegal.

                    That’s when I found out about the *personal* relationships between O’Mara, NeJame and other members who were attacking GZ. These were professional *and* personal friends of MoM.

                    That is also when I discovered, from first hand information, that MoM and NeJame had conversed about the strategy to get MoM the CNN Contract. Nejame had just recently himself signed with them a few months earlier. His goal was to help MoM get the same gig.

                    This is actually part of the reason why NeJame’s law office did not take the GZ case and instead put GZ in touch with Mark O’Mara. GET THAT? NeJame *referred it* to O’Mara.


                    To.This.Day. People will still argue about how GZ found O’Mara, claiming that NeJame had NOTHING to do with it.

                    People …… Including Mark NeJame himself in July 2012 when I exposed the ruse which was NOT in GZ’s best interest. (hence I just provided you a link of proof in his own words) and Nejame denied both his referral and the goal of CNN contract saying it was “conspiracy theory”.

                    After those 3 days in Orlando, I realized what GZ was actually involved in. I doubt GZ knew in May/June 2012 what *other* motives were behind O’Mara.

                    That’s when I could no longer allow people to keep selling the O’Mara doing it for George Zimmerman. That was just plain wrong. Everything was about O’mara doing it for O’Mara. Everything. Including:

                    His control of the finances.
                    His control of contact with GZ by family.
                    His controlling decision for the bond agent, and his control of the actual bond agreement itself which handcuffed GZ from any exit.
                    His control of the accountant.


                    It’s the same reason why MoM never went after the Scheme Team. It was NEVER about GZ. From Day #1 it was about MoM. The people in Orlando laughed at my initial niavete in seeing how it was all being constructed.

                    It was a plan, a purposefully, well coordinated and self-serving plan.

                    With that in mind, and dozens upon dozens of first person interviews as my backdrop, I began analyzing how could THAT truth be discussed without impacting GZ’s representation which was now past the point of no-return.

                    Daily, dozens and Dozens of people began attributing a totally false motive to MoM’s actions and began excusing away all of the comments from him that were disparaging his client.

                    The frustration I felt was BEYOND extreme. So yeah, I asked -REPEATEDLY- for the O’Mara worshippers to exit. M4 and MnM were both the same person, and he/they were defending MoM because of professional courtesy EVEN THOUGH I knew that HE knew what was actually taking place and we exchanged emails in that regard.

                    Texantimedia was niave as were dozens of others. However, SOME of the others were actually facilitating the firm of O’Mara law, and trying to provide COVER for him.

                    So no, I never told anyone NOT to contribute to GZ – quite the contrary I maintained his support and even sent him money myself. I sent it because I knew he was stuck and in a horrible situation.

                    What O’Mara did to George was beyond comprehension. The shere selfishness of his conduct, decisions and behavior was the anthesis of wrong.

                    From July 2012, after those three days in Orlando, everything I stated about O’Mara was based on facts, actual events, first hand discussions, and reality.

                    I said in July 2012 that the CNN gig was the goal….. and lo and behold what happened more than a year later?…..


                    • I recall reading on facebook that you were calling for donations to stop and that O’Mara was part of the railroad to convict GZ. That was in July 2012.

                      In the link to the txantimedia site I posted here today, the commenters on the thread also posted those sentiments. So somehow it got conveyed that way.

                      I recall going to your site and watching the video of the glance and I thought you’d lost your mind. I do not recall seeing a call to stop donating but the tone of your website suggested it would be a good idea. O’Mara can’t be trusted, O’Mara controls the money, No link to the donation site. Stella told us it was hidden in the picture to GZ website on the sidebar. I’m sure your site didn’t send many donors GZ’s way with what you were posting.

                      Often I read there about your readers not donating based on what they were reading there and I don’t recall you saying, hey wait a minute, don’t do that. Even I sent in money.

                      What you’ve outlined here is that GZ found himself a motivated lawyer to win his case. Perhaps he was motivated to advance his own career goals instead of helping GZ as the priority, but regardless, to get what he wanted, he had to win.

                      This tells me GZ picked a very motivated lawyer.

                      You were stating in July he was working with the state to lose for GZ.

                      I remain of the opinion you were/are flat out wrong.

                      You are really good when you go after the bad guys but Sundance, there is not a conspiracy in every soul you come upon.

                      Concentrate on the corrupt SA and her office. That is where the breakdown occurred in the case. Had she done a thorough investigation and taken the results to a grand jury, GZ never would have been charged.

                    • Nettles

                      I’m catching up on posts and just read SD’s. I was considering posting a response and then read yours. Your post is essentially what I was going to say. MOM signed on to defend GZ. Regardless of what other goals he may have had GZ’s acquittal (or immunity) would have been essential. Failing to successfully defend his client, especially in such a high profile and clear case of self-defense, would like put a roadblock in an otherwise excellent career. I have absolutely no problem if MOM got a little something out of the time he spent defending GZ. Unless there are some wins in civil suits MOM (West, and others) aren’t likely to get paid by GZ. They did their jobs well and I hope all involved benefit in some way from the work they did. GZ has certainly already benefited from it.

                    • NO link to the donation site? PLEASE. Again, STOP. Just STOP.

                      TCTH was the first – GET THAT? – *The first site* to provide a permanent link to the GZ defense fund. A link that was maintained from April 9th 2012 to End July 2013.

                      A link that was used 8,277 times to contribute an estimated $165,000+ dollars.

                      Myself and the Admin Team sent GZ over $4,000 personally without mention. We were contacted to assist with housing assistance also.

                      So please, STOP. Just STOP with this nonsense.

                      Call GZ, Call or tweet Robert Z (Jr or Senior), et al, or send them an email at their donation sites and ask them if you need confirmation. But STOP with this nonsense.

                    • Sundance –

                      Do you believe that individuals, who did not have the benefit of your personal sleuthing and knowledge, could read the commentary at CTH concerning MOM’s actions as GZ’s counsel, and after hearing the arguments back and forth, conclude that the MOM’s actions in court were a reasonable and increasingly effective strategy to counter all the forces united in their attack against GZ?

                      Or must it be that those who expressed opinions finding MOM’s legal strategy defensible or better could only do so if their intent was to disrupt your efforts at CTH?

                    • Sundance:

                      Even though I sometimes refer to you as an enigma, I think you know I have great respect for you…. but don’t you see how a lot of what you say is confusing and conflicting to the average person on these blogs? Everyone who visits the Tree is not as educated or as intelligent as you are, nor do they have the “boots on the ground” inside knowledge that you possessed during all of this. You sometimes spoke in riddles, so to speak, leaving many of us to wonder about your sources. We waited in suspense to hear the “rest of the story.” We were a faithful, dedicated lot who counted on you and relied on your explanations to be as accurate, definitive and complete as they were when the blog first began covering the story. That evolved into something else.

                      Later, when you posted the thread about MOM’s involvement in the HOA settlement, I asked a carefully guarded question wanting to know where you learned all of that. You did not reply personally, even though I directed my question you, because “others” there quickly cut me off as if How dare I question you? I thought my question was respectful and perfectly in order.

                      What followed were many others questioning you about that and the discussion grew more heated and controversial. I stayed on the sidelines afterwards because I genuinely felt I was disrespected and my comments were not valued. I thought, Why am I even there?

                      My point is that the site eventually changed from being one where the average person could find reliable information about the case to one that catered only to an elite group of people. Lots of people, including me, did not feel comfortable asking questions or even trying to contribute to the conversation.

                      You have a unique way of telling a story. Your Benghazi coverage is unequaled anywhere, but I think you lost a lot of followers when MOM’s credibility and motives appeared to become more important than setting him free.

                      We all recognize that it is the CTH that probably prevented George from being in prison. Had you not exposed the Scheme Team, I doubt that George would be a free man today. Thanks for doing that and I wish the best to you in whatever you do. For sure, you attract attention whether people agree with you or not. Stay well.

                    • @Nettles, @Hooson, @Jordan, my apologies – as I wrote that extensive response I became too concerned with length and missed the primary purpose of writing it.

                      On Day #3 in Orlando, after being jawstruck by what those five *insiders* were sharing, I returned to the first with a question. (Again, I was in a similar mindset of disbelief – this is June 2012) and I asked the following:

                      Me – “If what you are saying is true, the only way the NeJame / O’Mara goal can come to pass *is if* George Zimmerman goes to trial”. “meaning O’Mara would have to intentionally NOT ADVOCATE for, or deconstruct the evidence against, George Zimmerman for acquittal and take the case to trial”. “Without a trial the CNN victory will not come to pass” ?

                      I received the following response:

                      Courthouse Clerk, Paralegal, and former intern: – “DUH ! You really don’t get it do you”? Of COURSE the goal is to get the case to trial. “The evidence is weak, and the non-conviction virtually assured – even for a guy like O’Mara”.

                      They continued…. “Why do you think there was such a big difference between the first bond hearing and how O’Mara handled Gilbreath”? “O’Mara was on track to have the case dismissed – NeJame and him had some face time over lunch and you’ll note the advocacy changed drastically along with the strategy”…..

                      I sat in stunned silence listening to the following: …”If O’Mara does not take the case to trial, he will have a harder time getting the contract”. “He needs the win, and he needs the publicity to put his name ‘out there’ for the goal to be achieved”. …….”What you are now seeing is an attorney with a conflict of interest, a personal interest, in his client actually going to trial”.

                      They continued: ….”under ordinary circumstances the attorney would be working to get the charges dismissed against their client”. “This is not the case with O’Mara, the trial is what he needs…… for his own career interests”.

                      I asked many more questions, but essentially was given the same predictive answers to each. The three people who knew the workings of the crowd said that O’Mara would never do anything, that you will know about, that will potentially dismiss the case prior to trial. Yes, he will investigate a lot of aspects, and yes he will hold those findings in his vault for use at trial *if needed*, but the goal is to take the case to trial and win at trial. He’ll say he’s doing it pro-bono, but really it’s just an investment choice in his own financial career.

                      That “Ah-Ha” moment, led me to go back and look at the prior aspects in April, May and June 2012 only this time looking at them from a perspective of O’Mara *WANTING* to position the case for trial.

                      What I realized was THEY WERE RIGHT. I had been duped by a foundation of my own thinking that was structurally flawed. That led to the “Glance” post.

                      Stop for a moment and go back through your own historical references, only this time look at them from a perspective that Mark O’Mara did not want the case dismissed and was complicit in enabling the prosecution and Scheme Team to advance toward the mutually beneficial objective of a “Trial”.

                      Open your mind to the possibility that TRIAL was a goal for O’Mara, and now look at his statements, his media interviews, his behavior, his conduct, and his framing of the case in general terms. You’ll find it all reconciles with that paradigm shift.

                      Then ask yourself what type of person would put their own professional career interests above that of their client? You provide your own definition.

                      I’ll simply repeat again:

                      Has there ever been a more stark example of a conflict of interest ?

                    • I’d like to hear from George Zimmerman on all of this. Maybe one day he will share it with me (us).

                      nettles@bell.net —- George, talk with me please.

                      George if you ever contact me, put my house number in the email subject line so I know it’s you along with the amount of my last donation.

                      Sundance do you really think George could have prevailed in an immunity hearing? If so, I have some swamp land to sell you in Florida.

                      I just don’t see where GZ’s best interests were ignored given the constraints of time the court put on the defense and money that you contributed to in the amount that was available or not available.

                    • Sundance:

                      Thanks for your detailed explanation. I have no doubt whatsoever regarding the veracity of what you were told by those people even though it surprises me that someone would reveal all of that to you..

                      IOW, what you are saying is that it was MOM’s goal to secure the contract and that would require a trial.. OK, I get that but wasn’t that actually a secondary goal?

                      Going back in time, realistically, do you really believe that a trial could have been avoided AND ALL charges dropped? I admit that I do not recall the precise details of the state’s position at that moment in time, like you do, but my recollection is that the trial seemed inevitable anyway. Aside from the possibility of a plea deal, which was never offered publicly, I do not believe the state would have allowed that to happen. If so, we never saw any indication of it. Crump, Julison and company had already virtually assured that George would face consequences. I do not see how that could have been stopped. Too many national figures were involved.

                      I never quite understood the decision about the immunity hearing because opinions were all over the board, even from lawyers who opined about it. So I do not know if that had any chance of success or not. Most folks did not think so but I recall you were not so confident.

                      There does exist the possibility that a conspiracy among the major players was in play. Annette mentioned that Mike Mortimer had discussed that at one time but do you know how far fetched that seems to the rest of us?

                      So IF the trial could NOT have been avoided and O’Mara knew that, then I am not so sure I can criticize him as much as you have for acting as he did. I may be missing something big here but that is my personal perspective.

                    • @Nettles, believe me, I mean B.E.L.I.E.V.E me, I do so hope that one day you and George Zimmerman can have a conversation about Mark O’Mara. Somehow, someway, I do hope that happens.

                      THAT would put so much of this to rest once and for all. Period.

                      Regarding the “immunity hearing”. I don’t know. However, I do believe it was NEVER in the O’Mara consideration. But it goes WAYYYYY beyond the immunity hearing.

                      Think about all the people never questioned in sunlight. O’Steen, Gilbreath, Randy Smith, SRO Dunn, and the ping logs, and the GPS, 3 stooges et al, and the complete avoidance of any Trayvon Martin aspects which would have compromised the public image of O’Mara not George.

                      The fine line was —> carefully avoiding anything that would make O’Mara look bad, not George. “My client believes he is not racist”, “My client believes he is not guilty”, “My client has lied and damaged his credibility”…. etc etc. hundreds of examples of similar or worse advocacy. But, you already know this.

                      What you don’t reconcile is the *motive* behind why O’Mara was doing it.

                      The justifications all of the O’Mara fans kept spouting was about how it was to protect George’s image <—- structurally flawed / cognitively dissonant. It was never about George and….. wait for it,……. George knew this.

                      O'Mara could never provide the "why did TM attack GZ and act the way he did" to the audience, because it was an unpopular sentiment. He never even put the "why" before a jury because it represented a "risk" to him and his image in the public opinion.

                      O'Mara was conflicted. George knew this. GZ knew, according to RZ, his attorney had a conflict of interest as described above. But there was nothing anyone could do. The 'hold out hope' position was that O'Mara would get what he wanted, and yet GZ would also be freed by a jury.

                      I know the old saying about Lawyers all lie etc etc. But this was something beyond that…. something well below lying as a profession yet holding honorable character in most aspects.

                      It's not a conspiracy, it's just the reality of a self-serving conflict of interest. A purpose behind the attorney which is NOT driven by the best interest of his client. Nothing more, and nothing less. No conspiracy theories needed. Simple human nature.

                      @Jordan, no the CNN contract was not the secondary goal. It was the primary goal. It was 100% the central foundation for taking the case in the first place. O'Mara took the referral from NeJame to take the case to trail, win, and then have the bona fides for a CNN paid legal analyst contract.

                      I want to know, and perhaps I might drive back to Orlando to find out, what happened in the relationship with West? That's my only curiosity.

                    • Sundance: I hear what you are saying but this is the first time I have seen it in the way you are explaining it here. You did it a lot of this piecemeal over time and, as good as you are at expressing yourself on a blog, I do not think everyone fully grasped everything you said and the implications. Even if they did, what could anyone do about it? That is my big question. What could possibly be done to get George another attorney after any of this came to light? Why didn’t his brother and father intervene? I would like to hear what you say about that because I never heard anyone answer that.

                      We all learned how corrupt the entire system is but, even now, what can realistically be done about it? That, to me, is more important than an “unethical” attorney if that is how you want to define him.

                      I will be interested to see what MOM says in his book, assuming he still plans to write one. No, I am sure he would never address the issues you have outlined here but maybe someone else will in another book. I suggested that YOU do that before as have others, even though you have said you have no interest.

                      At the end of the day, all that has been accomplished is to reveal extreme corruption and no one is likely to acknowledge it, let alone do anything about it.

                    • Sundance, I wanted to reply to you down thread but was unable to. George did know Omara was not advocating for him. MOM and George parted ways right after the verdict. They did not see eye to eye. MOM showed up at the Shellie DV call because he needed the air time and had not announced it yet. The next day he announced he was no longer George’s attorney. I encourage you to visit Don West. He may talk to you and maybe not. He told my family about Omara and George parting ways. West is handling the remaining things from the trial. Omara dragged his heels about getting some property back to my family that was being held since the day of George’s arrest. So they went to West and he promised to get right on it and get the property back. West said the parting between Omara and George was not shall we say friendly. As soon as George could he dumped MOM. His hands were tied pre trial. Omara saw to that.

                    • That is some really interesting information, JFP. I have been wondering if the parting was amicable. I saw the comment MOM made about advice he would give George. Guttman said MOM’s response was “Pay me.” Of course, we did not see the rest of the dialogue so there may have been more to it than that but why would MOM say that unless he said it in anger?

                      Are you saying that West will now handle the sanctions hearing, too?

                      Do you know anything further about MOM’s promise to go after Corey? Unless he follows through, he will not look too good to many followers. He used some pretty strong language.

                      What you are saying implies that West also has issues with MOM.

                      Please keep us posted with any other inside scoop, OK?

                    • Jordan I don’t know if West has issues with MOM or not. They have been friends a long time so maybe not. West will be handling the sanctions. I have no idea about Corey. MOM is done with anything GZ related. Hopefully West will go after her, I dunno. I heard the “Pay Me” remark.

                    • The “Pay Me” remark is troubling, especially if he meant that in anger. Surely, O’Mara must have made a business decision that he would probably make a lot of money by taking this case, pro bono. IDK. Is George really trying to avoid being served the divorce papers? If so, why?

                    • Sundance –

                      In your last reply, you gave a coherent account of your actions and reasoning, all, of course, relying on the accuracy of the accounts relayed to you by somewhat identified, but unnamed, others.

                      Near the end of your reply you state the following –

                      “Open your mind to the possibility that TRIAL was a goal for O’Mara, and now look at his statements, his media interviews, his behavior, his conduct, and his framing of the case in general terms. You’ll find it all reconciles with that paradigm shift.” –

                      I can agree that if one takes the information as you have presented it, and if it is accurate as presented, one can interpret it as reconciling with a paradigm shift in MOM’s handling of the case.

                      What I am suggesting is that one can take everything and add in what you have stated today, and reasonably interpret the developments in far more benign terms than those that you sincerely hold.

                      It is certainly reasonable to look at what MOM chose not to pursue and on that basis interpret such a decision as being due to nefarious motives.

                      Yet, MOM laid out the course of action he was going to take in the defense of George Zimmerman. This course did not include taking on the BGI directly, nor indirectly.

                      This case went to trial, not because MOM did not do something. This case went to trial because Corey did something, and then some.

                      There is simply a lot that we still do not know.

                      And yes, George could clear some of these matters if he chose to.

                      And also Sundance, I had asked you before but did not see an answer –

                      “Do you believe that individuals, who did not have the benefit of your personal sleuthing and knowledge, could read the commentary at CTH concerning MOM’s actions as GZ’s counsel, and after hearing the arguments back and forth, conclude that the MOM’s actions in court were a reasonable and increasingly effective strategy to counter all the forces united in their attack against GZ?

                      Or must it be that those who expressed opinions finding MOM’s legal strategy defensible or better could only do so if their intent was to disrupt your efforts at CTH?”


          • Nettles:

            I am on a search to find his explanation but cannot find a way to reach him and ask the question. He had a blog but there is nothing there:


            I think he was a regular at txantimedia but that was before I even knew of the site. I did a search for his comments there but did not see anything that was relevant.

            As a lawyer, he also posted legal opinions at Stately Manor. Do you know how to reach him to ask the question?

          • The SAO did read the CTH every day. I don’t know where Michael went but I heard he was banned for posting somethning pornographic. It is getting to be a real Peyton Place on some of the blogs. I think it was evident Bernie did everything he could to force George in taking a plea.

              • I never heard about one either. George would have turned it down and rightfully so. I always thought they went after Shellie to try and get George to take a plea. They were ruthless. It is good not to have to watch Bernie anymore.

      • I am sorry but not at all surprised. Despicable behavior. You have never said or done anything to provoke them other than not believe their lies.
        so glad you stuck with it for George and the truth.

      • Nettles, what a road you’ve traveled. I just have to repeat what Cassandra said “so glad you stuck with it for George and the truth”! I of course haven’t been following here as long as others. But I’ve supported George from the minute I realized he was being railroaded and that the facts just didn’t jive with what the MSM was telling me. When I decided I couldn’t trust HLN, In Session or any news organization for the truth, I got into Twitter looking for real information. As I muddled my way through twitter I latched onto Coreshift and eventually learned about this blog. I’m just an avid court watcher and have loved following high profile cases to learn how the law works and how our justice system operates… but good grief I never bargained for what I’ve learned from this case!!! In short, I just want to say thanks for good information, digging for the truth, and not giving up when the going got rough. I’m so sorry you’ve been threatened and harassed – it’s disgraceful. But I’m glad you’ve been tough and not backed down.

      • Nettles,
        Thank you for enduring so much for your outspokenness. It’s stuff like what you described that keeps me from ever, ever, ever using my real name.

  5. Nettles, I totally get what you’re saying. I just wanted to point out, though, that only using real names, even if only posting in a respectful manner, would keep many people from posting. People may not get hired because their political views are online and have been seen by hiring departments. People already working may lose their jobs for the same reason. Especially jobs that by their nature are more “left” or “right” (ex, social services would be more left, perhaps the prison industry would be more right). And I can tell you that in my field, mental health, the less a patient or client knows about you, the better, for many reasons, including the fact that the focus needs to be on them. Anything online, or even letters to the editor in the paper, could cause trouble in people’s jobs, no matter how respectful and reasoned their writing is.. it’s unfortunate that life has become so politicized, but it is what it is.

  6. Before I head on out would like to comment on this thread post.
    I believe anon posting can be a double edged sword. But for the most part it is something I personally support if the intention is to speak freely and not used for nefarious purposes. Some people can not post using their real identities for reason lorac stated.

    I post semi–anon. My family/friends know of my online presences. I posted about that on my blog. I am a very controversial poster. My family does not hold my same ideals. I stay anon for their protection. If the day comes they would like to raise their voice for a cause that is their choice to speak for themselves. Fact is, even if everyone posted with their real identites you still would not know their whole story.

    As for numerous users names? I have different user names depending on the topics and places I go online. I have been online for a long time discussing different topics in different areas. Each group knowns me by a different username. To keep my group contacts and discussions disconnected because the discussions are not relevant to this group I use a different username. It comes down to the purpose behind anon postings and the reason one uses different contact user names. I see it more as a contact, not an identity.

    • I do understand what Danny is stating. I do not hide my name on my blog. However, I do post anonymously, sort of. I use a few names for identification and do not always go by Aussie. It is also for my protection and the protection of my family.

      Like Danny I can be controversial in what I post, so it helps to have protection of sorts.

      • Unless using a screen name counts as disguising my identity, I have never used multiple screen names that I can recall, unless it was because my regular one was not allowed for whatever reasons. It was always jordan2 but then WP forced me to change it to jordan2222. However, I still use jordan2 at some WP sites like RT. I have no choice.

        I have nothing to hide and am not on any mission to infiltrate sites and stir up trouble. I honestly do not see the point. Seriously, what kind of damage can a “troll” do except to change the subject. My experience is that when that happens, they are ignored or someone rebukes them and we move on. Anyone can post incorrect information or even tell outrageous lies but so what? Don’t most of us use our brains in discerning truth from fiction?

        A helluva lot of misinformation was posted at various sites during the Zimmerman saga and it continues. While MSM deservedly got most of the heat for manipulation of information and facts, posters became just as bad. Some of it was intentional but a lot of it was a result of people honestly seeking truth and posting links that MAY have helped in determining the truth. We were free to explore those sources and decide for ourselves. Many of the facts have still not been revealed to the public.

        Did we ever see documented facts or truth about the “two” DeeDee’s” or the phone that JFP learned about that MOM had? While I have a tendency to believe JFP, we have not seen, as far as I know, any evidence to support that. Likewise, we have yet to see any proof of another DeeDee.

        In reading what everyone has to see, I am left to wonder if there is a greater conspiracy that is over my head.

        • I thought there were 3 DDs? Now I never paid attention to that Jordan because the first DD was wrong and that is what caused contention. Here I asked SD to support it. Nope. I know you are neither here nor there.
          Some have beliefs, even close to the case that give those who retain info. that CAN be a documented issue. But I do not mind. Some play it safe with stuff that can not be documented. Minds me none. I used my screen name on Dmans. I emailed CTH and posted once not under this name. Does not matter though because it never made it out of moderation on purpose! So the name I used is irrelevant. Where I use other names is irrelevant as well. The important issue….. is….. they were brought here. So….ask the one who has the answers.

        • good points Jordan.

          When the first girl was doxed, I do think that there was twitter evidence to prove that she had contact with TM. She was in touch with him and the twitter feed showed that she was sending him text messages. This is the same girl who stated to someone else that she had argued with TM on the Friday. Now here’s something to chew over, because that girl’s conversation indicated that TM was supposed to be in a vehicle with his father on the Friday before he died, yet it was claimed later that he was already in Sanford by the Wednesday.

          With regard to names, I have used a variation of my own name online. When I send a comment to an Australian news blog I use a screen name that indicates that I no longer live in Victoria. At another blog I use a derivation of my name plus the year that I was born. I cannot always use Aussie so I use an alternative. I do that also because there is another woman with my name living in Sydney. I know her and her husband is some sort of relative to my husband…. boy, oh boy living in the same place as this woman caused a lot of mix-ups and it explains why I use a derivation of my name!! With regard to my husband, he would be better off if he used a derivation of his name for a variety of notorious reason!!

            • I have not been bullied online or at least not to any real extent. One person tried to claim that he had outed me, BUT he was so far off the mark, he was hilarious.

          • I hadn’t seen those tweets that suggested Tray was in a car with his dad on Friday night but that is possible.

            In Chad’s statement to police he tells them that his mom dropped Tray and him off in Orlando on Friday night. There is no mention of how they got home.

            From Tray’s tweets from Sybrina we learn if he will be good, she’ll send $50 to him through his father on Friday.

            So perhaps, Tracy went to Sanford Friday night to pick up Brandy, drop off money to Trayvon and drop the boys in Orlando (there was a huge Nike shoe release that night) before heading off to the convention. Maybe Stephen met them in Orlando and took them home to Brandy’s that night.

            Brandy does say that on Saturday, Chad’s coach took him to the football game.

            • No matter how many books are written about this case, I doubt we will ever know all of the facts. Who do you think knows them better than anyone? My guess is O’Mara and West but would either of them ever tell all? Wouldn’t that be risky to reveal everything that happened behind the scenes within the legal system and expose all of the players?

              Only a fool would believe that Lester was honest and many think the same of Nelson. The larger question is what can be done to prevent this from ever happening again?

            • That would apply only if the tweet was at night.From memory it was a daytime tweet. She actually tweeted to someone else that she was on the phone with TM.

              That is what was so weird. This girl was in TM’s list. In fact so was another girl that was more or less outed around the same time. However, neither of them was DeeDee.

        • Hi, Jordan. The phone I was talking about was not in Omara’s possession. It was in evidence at SPD. Omara knew about it though. I have always wondered why we never saw the documentation of a lot of things. We never saw anything about the ping logs or gps or full tox report either. When West had Rachel on the stand I thought for sure he was going to bring it all out but he didn’t. I don’t know, maybe they are saving some of the evidence for civil suits and did not want to show their full hand at the criminal trial if they didn’t need to. I never heard there were two DeeDee’s but I did hear of two phones and that there was proof that Trayvon wasn’t talking to his girlfriend at the time of his encounter with George. Early on I heard the phone at the scene was not Trayvon’s. Later I heard they finallly got his phone and that was video of a beating of a homeless person on it. That video was mentioned in discovery along with the drugs, the gun shopping, etc. Nelson didn’t let them bring all of that out in court. If she had I think the truth about the two phones would have been brought out. Rachel lied so much and made mistakes that support in my mind there were two girls playing the part of DeeDee.Crump and Tracy did everything they could to keep the truth about the phone from coming to light. Crump thought a bogus spreadsheet from Tracy’s bill was enough evidence to get George arrested. And who erased the info on Trayvon’s phone? So many questtions remain unanswered in my mind. I hope George goes after all of these liars in civil suits and I hope he becomes extremely wealthy so he can have a life.

        • I kept waiting for SD to tell the whole DD thing, after Chump was deposed, well lol I am still waiting. Would have like to have read it 🙂 I truly enjoyed reading at the TH. Learned a lot of diff things and met some awesome people. I still do read there, but ever since SD copied a comment from here and posted it at the TH, as to call me out, like I was hanging with the enemy… Uncalled for. And I didn’t appreciate it and still don’t. It felt to me like being bullied, tho it may not have meant it to be. I give hope it wasn’t but considering what was said and going on… Shocked lol still….

    • I agree some people need to have the screen name for their protection. The only reason I had one at Click Orlando and another at CTH is because I thought when I went from disqus to wordpress I thought I had to have a different one. I did not know I could use the same one. I am not very computer savy and blogging was new to me when I jumped in Click Orlando to stand up for George and all of the lies being told about him. Now I know. I don’t like people using different ones for an agenda to attack people.

  7. I was at the company golf tournament today. It’s official, I suck at golf but I had a lot of fun in spite of it pouring rain all day! I really am blessed to work with terrific people.

    I’m just catching up on the day’s postings. I do understand why someone would post under any identity that wouldn’t link to their real life. My issue is with someone who say posts on this site using multiple identities. There is no need for it other then to extend their agenda to manipulate and deceive a bunch of people who came here looking to be part of a group to find the truth about what occurred in a case in Florida.

    The case most definitely shows abuse of power and if we the people don’t push back and send a message to those who hold power, we will forever be duped and manipulated by them.

    I was soooooo naïve when I started out participating in the conversation online about this case. As a reader, I just wanted to highlight some of the manipulations I believe may be at play. If we are aware they exist, we can be on the lookout for it and help each other ferret out the ones who try to manipulate us.

    For those of you with multiple accounts, I again ask out of respect for the readers here and myself, please use only one identity here and post in an identity that we would recognize.

    I’m going to finish reading today’s postings, take a hot shower and be back in touch later tonight. Thanks so much to everyone who participates here.

    • I must be blind or totally in the dark. I thought I knew most of the people who regularly post here. Are you saying we have people who post here using more than one screen name?

      • As I’ve stated repeatedly, I think Rick Madigan was a fake account.

        Danny has posted he thinks others use multiple accounts here. I have no knowledge of it.

        Looking at who posts, I remember most from the treehouse before February 2013.

        I don’t recognize a whole lot of commenters there now. In reading the txantimedia site I linked for you, it is like deja vu. What Sundance did to Diwataman, he did to txantimedia last July 2012. They do say history has a way of repeating itself.

        • When I first started posting at the CTH in spring 2012 I used my real name. I want it to be safe to stand up for what I believe but again I am too easily naive and optimistic. I have experienced vandalism and threats several times due to my local activism. Out of concern I created an anonymous handle, then when the CTH instituted wordpress I had difficultly logging in with that handle and created Cassandra out of convenience. ytz4me accused me of sock puppetry. I explained exactly the steps and logic and she did not value my explanation. Danny for some strange reason accused me too. It is not like my opinions and comments have much influence so I find the accusations silly. On a local news blog I have a anonymous handle and am very outspoken challenging official lies, everyone knows who I am though, so I do get some pretty nasty bullying on certain issues. It does help protect my family members though not to have any easy affiliation with my heresy.

          The fact that TM supporters called a Canadian business to harass you astounds me, just go to show, if motivated the haters go to great lengths.

          • Doesn’t that behavior (calling my workplace) suggest to you that the people may have been related to the family or lawyers who wanted to profit from the case?

            That I ticked off someone who is a stranger and they retaliate with harassment is one thing but this was sustained for well over 6 months.

            I have to believe the harassers had a vested interest in the outcome of the trial that went beyond advocating for strangers.

            I began to notice a pattern that when I called Tracy Martin out on his inconsistencies, the twitter hate would escalate.

    • Did you read the update on that story? It’s on the first line after their headline that Trayvon was shot in the back.

      “UPDATE 1:38 PM EST, 9/14/13: In response to our inquiry, Alternet reporter Rod Bastanmehr apologized for the “potential inaccuracy” in his report which alleged that Dr. Shiping Bao claimed George Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the back.”

      • Who the hell is legendary Attorney Willie Gary? This whole thing is absurd. It has no end.

        Any idea who will represent George in the civil suits? I am anxious to see those get started. I am assuming that he will follow through and go after everyone he can. Do you think that he will?

        He would be wise to keep a low profile and stay out of trouble but he needs a strong support system for that and he also needs to listen to someone who can guide him through all of this. Who would that be, if not his brother and father? Surely they can take control. So far, not so good.

        Looking back on it, I am surprised the media did not learn more about his problems with Shellie and attack him then. I mean the clue was right there. She had left for the night due to a domestic dispute.

  8. ItsMichaleNotMike produced this video of Robert Zimmerman’s Jr.’s remarks on the opening day of the trial (June 10th) about how the family feels about GZ’s lawyers and their work.

        • Brace yourself. This presser was likely to get Shellie out of trouble for lying to police while being on probation.

          Is there any interest in taking a collection to send Shellie and George each their own iPad?

              • I think she was being knowing deceptive but I wouldn’t say she directly lied. I think she took the deal because it was a VERY sweet deal. One year of probation w/o a record of a conviction vs. possibility of being found guilt with the associated consequences. Why take any risk (and suffer the expense of a trial), however remote, of a felony conviction when the deal wasn’t more than a slap on the hand w/o lasting consequence? .

              • Lots of sheer stupidity surrounding that entire thing.. on everyone’s part including O’Mara. Did they really think they could cover up that money or get away with some kind of legal way to dodge who technically owned the money? I do fault MOM for allowing this to happen. Do you agree?

                O’Mara should have at least demanded a continuance. There are other things he could have done, too. How could it be anyone else’s fault besides O’Mara?

          • Sorry, Nettles, personally I’m just not in a place where I want to help Shellie have a nonessential item. Her actions of late and her choice of a lawyer make me feel she is behaving no differently than the TMers and the media – ratcheting things up and putting George and his family in greater danger. I suspect it’s part vindictiveness and part trying to make herself safer by further focusing people on George – but that reminds me of some SUV owners I have met who brag how safe they are in their vehicle which is 2-3 times larger than everyone else – but they have “made themselves safer” by making regular sized vehicles more vulnerable in any collision with them.

            And I realize Sims is a divorce lawyer, but this is a sensitive case with people’s lives at stake, and I think everyone would have been better served with a MOM-type professional divorce attorney than a Roseanne Barr mudfight type of attorney.

            Just my personal take on it.

          • I posted right after the presser that the whole Simms/Shellie charade was likely to get Shellie excused from probation violations. She lied to the police in her 911 call. There were reports that the police were looking into her 911 call information not aligning with the evidence. It seems that Bracknell got the excuse he needed to go after George as a Sandy Hook wannabe. He seemed upset that Shellie changed her story on the same day that she made the domestic violence scene look like a gun shoot em up battlefield. Very shortly after Simms showed up at the scene, he whisked SZ away, after advising her to not press charges. If he thought for a second that Shellie had any chance to prevail in charges against George, he would have been all over that angle. He knew she lied. And yes, the presser was meant to muddy the waters so that SZ would not be charged with probabtion violations. To call in a false police report to 911 is a crime, but, for whatever reason Bracknell seems much more anxious to get George.

        • Kelly Sims took pictures of the broken iPad and the empty package of a shoulder holster for a gun and along with text messages between Shellie and George on Sunday (8th) and Monday (9th) and the pictures of Shellie’s dad’s face, gave them to Christi O’Connor. Christi had them posted on her blog 4 hours after the incident and was on HLN with her photos with Jane of HLN at 7pm

          Here is Christi Blog post. While she has edited it to include information received after Sept. 9th, you’ll note she originally posted the thread Sept. 9th. I viewed it at about 8pm on the 9th.


          You will recall Shellie called the police at 2:09pm on Sept. 9th. ~ 5 hours later a reporter had on her site pictures taken inside the house and private texts between Shellie and George.

          • Do you know anything about O’Mara “officially” resigning? Are they on good terms?

            With MOM out of the picture, who will handle the sanctions hearing and who will follow up on MOM’s promise to go after Corey? I have seen no updates at all.

            Will George have trouble getting anyone to represent him in the civil suits? I have not seen anything about the NBC suit, either. Lots of questions here I know Annette but why is no one covering all of this?

            Shellie is getting more attention than any of these these things.

            • The news that O’Mara wouldn’t handle GZs and SZs divorce wasn’t known until Sept. 10th, which reveals Christi update her Sept. 9th post as more information came available, including changing her title to now GZ needs two lawyers.

              What got reported was that O’Mara would be handling the sanctions motions and also assisting on the suit against NBC.

              On Sept. 9th, Matt Gutman reported that O’Mara said in response to what advice would you give GZ his response was “pay me”

              The next day, we learn O’Mara won’t be the lawyer for GZ in the divorce proceedings or any charges that may result from the incident or any future issues GZ may have with the courts.

              In one piece, I read that GZ and SZ had become family to Mark and Jen O’Mara and Mr. O’Mara didn’t want to get in between them.

              The last I heard about the sanctions hearing was that the team was going through all the trial details again and was adding everything they could find to a motion asking for a sanctions hearing. At the time, it was said to need several weeks to prepare. That was several weeks ago.

              • Thank for the reply..

                I had read the “pay me” comment but did not read the entire conversation so that could mean anything, taken out of context to make it sound like MOM was angry. Why would he say such a thing when he knows George’s entire financial situation?

                I guess there is no further information about any of the civil suits, right?

              • O’Mara publicly stated that “he” would not be George’s lawyer in further proceedings other than the sanctions hearing and the NBC lawsuit. Don West never made such a statement, and he was George’s co-counsel. He has his own law office and works independently from O’Mara. I’m not so sure that Don West won’t take up further actions for George. He was especially infuriated with the prosecution’s actions. Someone asked him a question about the prosecution and he replied that he would like to retain his law license for a few more years. Haven’t seen anyone hit the West angle. I believe that West doggedly pursues justice to an ultimate end. He also has federal defense of clients under his belt.

                • Where ya been, minpin? I hope all is well.

                  As far as I know, George does not have anyone yet to represent him in any future civil suits that might be filed. His parents blasted CNN recently so I am hoping that someone will go after them and all of the others who have done their best to screw up George’s life.

                  I would sure like to see Don West take up the slack if that is the kind of thing he likes to do. It would sure give him a chance to expose all of the facts that have been hidden from us, and especially the real story about what the State actually did. Maybe that venue would allow him to vent his anger and frustration with the State and exact some semblance of revenge. Can you imagine him unleashing his fury in a courtroom without a muzzle on? I would really like to know the truth about his relationship with O’Mara. I always sensed he was being held back from doing and saying what he really wanted. Do you have an opinion about that?

                  So far, I have seen nothing about any civil suits except for the NBC deal, and the media has been mum on that, too. I think we can safely conclude that Crump would not dare attempt to file any kind of legal action against George now.

                  Nice to see you here again.

        • I’ve got lots of questions about that myself. It appears it was Sims who gave Shellie the green light to give Christi O’Connor an exclusive after her plea deal.

          It took 2 seconds to see O’Connor is quite the Trayvon was murdered advocate. A weird choice for Shellie for sure.

    • I saw that but I am not holding my breath about the state of Florida doing anything about it. It would immmediately be labeled as racist. Until Florida does something about the “atrocities” commited in the Zimmerman case, I give us little hope for making true changes about ANYTHING we do. I think I am not alone in losing confidence in our state.

      After the last election, we had enough attention on us before the case, and now everything we do is under scrutiny. That should be a good thing but so far all it has done is give the crooks and bad guys a chance to hide and cover up their real intentions disguised as being in our best interest. I voted for Rick Scott and Pam Bondi.. what a mistake.. and also thought Jeb Bush was a patriot. Even Marco Rubio changed. We have all been deceived.

      Sorry for the rant but the complete lack of action by our State to correct what was done to George is really getting to me. Not one of our “leaders” has even hinted that “mistakes” were made. That is truly pathetic and tragic. Somewhere there is another victim waiting to be screwed over again. The beat goes on.

  9. Sundance’s latest claim to fame is he knew and predicted that MOM was just going after the CNN gig. That is just a crock! He is always so smart AFTER the fact, AFTER things have already come to light. He did an enormous amount of damage to GZ during the trial. He chose the exact wrong time to go after the lead attorney in this case. It was stupid, and it still is.

    It does not take a genius to know that attorneys have personal aspirations and interrelationships. But that does not stop them from doing their jobs as true professionals–and MOM is one of the few true pros in the business. Compare him to BDLR or any other clown in the SAO. Or to Crump or NatJack.

    As Nettles stated, GZ had no chance of getting this case dismissed once Nelson was involved. That is why there was a trial, not any ridiculous deal between MOM and NeJame which made the case go to trial.

    Here is a much better conspiracy theory for you SD: This case had to go to trial, because NO ONE wanted this hot potato. The only way there could be any justice was if a jury found GZ not guilty. And even then, there are those who did not accept the verdict, including possibly Obama.

    Someone very high in the state of Florida, perhaps Scott, made sure that this case, as ridiculous as it was, went to trial. I don’t think it was random that Nelson was appointed. I also believe that the fix was in from the beginning. Everyone did his or her jobs, knowing the case could not be won. Even if some idiot jury convicted (and the jury got it right, BTW–there was no disproving of self-defense BRD), this case would have been overturned on appeal. This case came down to the lack of responsibility by any judge or prosecutor to get rid of it before trial. No one wanted to be held accountable–so a show trial had to be put on. It could have gone on forever, but it was rushed, because EVERYONE knew what the outcome was going to be. That also is why we never got ALL of the information about the 3 stooges, 2 DD’s, etc. It just did not matter. It will slowly come out–but the jury did its job. They took the heat for the state so well done.

    This case was a tragedy, but there were lots of lessons to be learned. Lots of people in Florida are carrying weapons, so perhaps it is not a good idea to sucker punch someone and then beat them senseless for 42 seconds. Trayvon was not some innocent poor little kid. I do not suggest he got what was coming to him, but once the beat down started and no one responded to calls for help, I really believe that GZ felt in imminent fear for his life. He had every legal right to defend himself.

    It is sad about all of the violence we have to deal with at the hands of thugs. And it is even scarier that the GZ case is trying to be used to limit our 2nd Amendment rights. There have been lots of other cases recently where the victims probably wish they had had a weapon.

    • but once the beat down started and no one responded to calls for help

      And as we all now, and I wish had been pointed out and emphasized at trial, TM chose to keep beating someone who was screaming for help. He chose to keep beating him even after a witness called out to stop and that he was calling the police. MOM likes to say they both had all these points in time that they could have done something else. But TM chose to attack, and he chose to keep on attacking someone who was basically saying “I give up”. That cruelty and his liking to fight (which I feel should have been let into trial) was a big part of what happened, and I sure wish that info could get out there. The media is still portraying him as a martyr, when he had a cruel and violent side. It’s bad enough to be someone who assaults someone else, but so much worse to be someone who keeps slamming their head into concrete and they’re wailing nonstop for help.

    • I also believe that the fix was in from the beginning. Everyone did his or her jobs, knowing the case could not be won.

      I don’t know, Stevie. I think the SAO is really used to going up against novice young attorneys, who don’t catch on to all their tricks (at least in this jurisdiction, I sure hope not all SAOs are this unethical). If the fix was in from the beginning, I think it would have been with the idea that public defenders would be involved, and I’m not sure that a public defender could have won this case.

        • Sundance’s latest “toldyaso” diatribe on MOM is meant to deflect criticism that SD tried to undermine the defense before, during and now after trial. He looks for any ridiculous thing to back up his conspiracy and conflict of interest theory. He had a poor understanding of attorney-client privilege and when I told him about it, he banned me. So just to disclose my own conflict with him.

          It takes a big man to apologize for a mistake–something SD will never do.

    • Thank you Stevie G. I wish I could have said ALL of that as well as you did! I especially agree: “It does not take a genius to know that attorneys have personal aspirations and interrelationships. But that does not stop them from doing their jobs as true professionals…” Very well said.

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