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Let’s Talk

join the conversation Open Invitation to Zimmerman Family and Defense Team to Join the Conversation

When George faced the murder charge, it was highly recommended and smart to ask his friends and family to be silent about themselves and the family. No one advocating for George, wanted anything to be used and spun to help the prosecutor convict George.

That threat is now passed. Thankfully, the defense team prevailed and I know the online community was a big help in that.

We have had no recognition from the defense team about our collective contribution. Perhaps they still feel the time isn’t right to acknowledge our help in a public way.

I invite the Zimmerman family and team defense, to join the online discussion here as we brainstorm the next steps for you. Is there anything we can collectively do to ensure another American citizen isn’t railroaded as we witnessed in George’s case?

Even if you just want to say hi and thank those who gave of their time to help this case or you want to start a movement to get better reporting, corrupt lawyers out of the courtroom and prosecutors who abuse their power out of control, join us and let’s get started.  If it’s not a good idea, please tell us why.

Again, if you’ve read here at all, out of respect for all who participate please do not intentionally mislead us on your relationship to the case.

I ask that while politics and religion may influence your beliefs and attitudes, please work hard to keep those topics out of the discussion.  The focus here isn’t about either of those topics.

Please join the conversation. My email is nettles@bell.net for anyone who needs to contact me privately.


300 thoughts on “Let’s Talk

  1. If I may presume to give his family and close friends advice:

    Don’t talk about anything other than the case and stuff specifically related to it.

    The government shutdown is not directly related.

    The Affordable Care Act is not directly related.

    Ethanol in gasoline is not directly related.

    Women’s reproductive issues are not directly related.

    Global climate change science is not directly related.

    “Fracking” is not directly related.

    et cetera

  2. Great choice of topics, Annette. I would surely like to learn more about this case in terms of the actual Truth instead of conjecture.

      • While I agree it is helpful for people in the case or related to it to be upfront about who they are, I’ve always thought, what’s to stop some miscellaneous person from using the name of a real person in the case, maybe someone related to the primaries, and pretend to be that person? We’d think they were being upfront, but really they’d be a total stranger to the case….

        • That is possible now, and could be a problem, but occurs probably in only isolated instances.

          However, that individual would be fairly quickly outed, I would think, and could run afoul of “false impersonation” laws.

  3. On the prior thread, George Zimmerman’s brother-in-law opined that there was never a need to reveal who he was to us online. He (Scott) posted as “Ken” and as “letsbefairtogz”. Does he have a point?

    When Shellie’s mom posts as Rebelious Angel and talks of herself in the 3rd person, is it out of line for those participating in the discussion (like me) to ask that the relationships be revealed so a fuller understanding of posts can be determined.

    I have sent over 20 emails railing against reporters for not saying what relationship Frances Oliver had in the Trayvon story they posted. Could Frances make the same argument as Scott?

    Perhaps they don’t want to say their name and address but couldn’t they at least reveal I’m a family member, friend of family, stranger to the case but interested, etc.

    What do you think?

      • Nettles – imo, you are just like the rest of us, our passions can run away w/us at times when stating our opinions on the case or an aspect of the case through our own perceptions of the available facts, they differ at times from other blogger friends.. I didn’t find your comments insulting, but if someone else did, that was the way they perceived your comment..

      • I think the characterization by Dizzy is a little harsh. I just read the exchange, and found it to be terribly frank – that’s all. We’ve all been frustrated by so many aspects of this trial, perhaps mostly by the flow of information…

        Keep being true to yourself, Nettles; you are one of the ‘Big Three’ in the TM / GZ blog world and the most consistent and rational. Also, you’ve kept your ego in check – very much appreciated – that hasn’t often been true across the web.

          • I guess that has changed throughout the saga, as some came and went; and I’ve changed computers, so I’ve lost a bunch of bookmarks… But, at the peak of interest, I’d say Nettles, CTH, and D-Man. I really enjoyed TalkLeft, McDaniel, and Rumpole (RT), as well. Legal Insurrection, also, and I’ve probably forgotten a few.

        • Terribly frank, yes, rude b…., not possible, Nettles does not have a b….. bone in her body. Personally I hate the b word, I am sick of misogyny.

    • Don’t be looking for an apology on Sundance, I’m just not feeling that one.

      I’m reflecting on why Scott set me off. I was expecting that the family and the defense team to be thankful and grateful to the people online. What I got from this member of the family was a “you guys don’t have a clue” meme.

      Do they all feel that way? Was the internet trolls more harm than help?

      I’m frustrated at the lack of information and then to have it thrown back there is lots we don’t know increases the frustation level.

      I know what price I’ve paid to support GZ and Scott was very dismissive of that as well. I’m not sure why he’s mad at me about the email someone else shared with me but he did appear to be “snotty”.

      Having said that, I don’t know what he has been through. That he thinks he is out there too much is his call. For the fight back to be successful, more than Robert Jr. is going to be needed to come forward.

      Strangers who don’t even know George are putting it out there for the effort. So far, it appears we are alone and still being kept in the dark.

      • I think we need to keep in mind that as far as the facts and evidence related to the GZ trial goes, unless family members got their information from MOM, West or GZ directly, it’s all most likely gossip between family members or things they read on the internet. Even if info was gained directly it’s very likely to be their interpretation rather than a strict repetition. No offense to family members, but only GZ and his legal team had all the facts and knew all the strategies. I suspect even GZ didn’t get the strategy some of the time and may not have liked some things even though they were for his own good (not testifying comes immediately to mind). Family members are likely speculating based on minimal information. Just like everyone else. As far as the relationship between GZ and SZ and the relationship between their family goes… Well, any information they might share is likely very biased. Their relationship is also something they need to work out amongst themselves.

      • He did say he was grateful, but you were attacking him about using a screen name. I don’t have any problem at all with him (or anyone) doing that. I don’t like all of this outing of people. Give them their privacy.

        And you have no idea if he knows what you have been through, but I can’t imagine it is more than what they have been through. Also, remember, it was your choice to use your real name.

        As far as SD is concerned, I say give him some slack. No one has done more than he has for this case. I personally think that GZ could have lost without the public outcry that came out of what started at the TH. However, I am sure MOM would disagree.

        • On Sundance, I disagree he needs some slack. I’ll leave that there.

          On Scott using a screen name, that was not my issue at all. I use a screen name. My issue was posting without revealing the relationship to the case. I think it’s dishonest.

          Scott was the first person to sign up to follow this blog. I suspected him to be Robert Jr. and thought to myself, please don’t post. It’s dishonest to the contributors here to pretend to be a stranger helping out on the case and it jeopardizes the guy I’m trying to help. And for the most part, Scott just watched us.

          He really never ever did contribute here at all.

          The trial is over now, the threat is gone and still he just watches us struggle for answers.

          Yes he said he was grateful after I baited him into it. I would have thought the point that he was grateful that a bunch of stranger helps his family would have been first out of the gate but I was wrong.

          I’m not happy with the grief I gave him. It’s his choice on how much “out there” he wants to be and for that I apologize.

        • Not to get into who did what and how much it helped GZ with the legal issues he faced, but I’m hard pressed to think of what things SD has done that affected the outcome of the trial. I do recall a somewhat embarrassing moment where MOM announced to Nelson he had screen shots of DD’s tweets. It seems it was the wrong DD. The DD that SD and the TCTH had seemingly decided was the real one. I also remember SD trashing MOM on a regular basis. Which, I think, may have reached GZ’s ears/eyes and created some doubt and tension between GZ and his legal team (and family members). IMO not something that benefitted GZ. My memory is hardly the best, but could you give examples of how SD helped get GZ acquitted. Things that GZ’s legal team wouldn’t have noticed from their study of the discovery or GZ’s account of events? Things that were actually used in trial?

          It seems to me that the state used what bloggers put out there more than MOM did. A great deal of their presentation seemed to come directly from Traybots and their theories. The state didn’t have anything else.

          Don’t get me wrong, SD and others have done a great deal to reveal the players and the politics of what was happening outside the courtroom. A great deal of effort was made by many to try and correct inaccuracies and outright lies being spread through the media and social media, but inside the courtroom… how much was actually of use?

          • I don’t have the inclination right now to to think about what might have been used in the courtroom. I was talking about the public outcry that was, IMO, a direct result of what was done by SD.

            • Oh, that I agree with. SD certainly did bring public attention to the case and helped expose the lies, people and agendas surrounding it. It also gave him a context to forward his own agendas. BGI, 2nd amendment, progs, etc. IMO he used the case like many others did. It wasn’t about freeing GZ for him.

                • I read somewhere that he will soon begin a weekly show. Do you know anything about that?

                  He is articulate, eloquent and his delivery style and body movements are captivating. He knows how to keep you on your toes and makes you listen to his entire presentation, but most of all, he speaks the Truth.

                  I have a few conservative friends who think no one but other conservatives would ever listen to him. He is much too insightful and accurate to Progs/Liberals/Dems or whatever they call themselves today. That may be true and is probably the case with other conservative speakers but he reinforces what I believe and sometimes we all need that. OTH, many of us conservatives would also tune out liberal leaders. How many of us can actually listen to an entire speech made by Obama. He is even more arrogant than Bush. I hate anyone who talks down to me, when I know they are lying.

                  That is a huge issue in America now. I do not think we have ever been so polarized. Most of us are so fixed in our opinions now that nothing can be accomplished. We have witnessed that since Obama was first elected, and his reelection permanently sealed the deal. One has only to look at our current plight and also understand that we have NEVER had a budget since he was elected. SUDDENLY, he wants one. Does not that infuriate you?

    • @Dizzy, one of the issues you are seeing play out here is the very reason why Nettles et al repeated calls for contact go unresponded.

      You see, the problem is the TRUTH can never be revealed, or actually even discussed, on *this* blog because the participants are ENTRENCHED with their pre-established beliefs. There is no journey, because in their mind they have arrived at their destination “Conclusion Central”.

      That’s why Nettles needs to *jump aggressively upon* anyone such as LFBTGZ who presents a narrative of understanding which runs counter to the pre-established suppositions of the story told, and necessarily believed, for so long.

      LFBTGZ represents a risk to Nettles, ( the hurdle of proof is set so high the average person could never actually convince them the sun will rise in the East. (There is always that .0000000000000001% possibility it might not)

      It is within that possibility, however remote, that *most* retain a tenuous grip upon to avoid having to a.) Admit they are wrong, and/or subsequently b.) admit their preconceptions were based on flawed logic from bias.

      It’s the human dynamic that’s somewhat fascinating to watch [<—- Oops, I just answered the question why do I come here?]

      I visit here for two reasons. #1 – in the remote possibility that GZ might set the record straight [and I guess the prideful part of my own constitution, which is dying to post I TOLDYASO'S, wants to see the response when that happens] because I thoroughly believe splodey heads will erupt. (This is not a part of my nature I am proud of, as I stated it's actually prideful to look for such, but the satisfaction would be epic.)

      …. and #2 – Because, by posting here I am able to leave a trail of breadcrumbs to those (followers) who wish to, and enjoy, participating in the conversations of destruction of other peoples' lives. Personally, I do not enjoy seeing that type of conversation taking place at TCTH.

      That's also why I have begun sending things to Nettles; and is best explained in this exchange between myself and TCTH Admin query:


      The Question: Sundance, I have to ask – why did you send all of that stuff from XXXXXXX XXXXXX to Nettles?

      The Answer: Because that continuing saga needs a place to land…. IMHO Nettles is the anthesis of the mindset that feeds on the soap opera of other peoples lives…. in the minutia of ‘he-said, she-said”…. my hope is the folks who follow the GZ train wreck at that level will follow the trail of the conversation that highlights that level…. Hence they can aggregate at Nettles place, and remove the sewing room type gossip discussion from the TreeHouse.

      The sender, who I think is a variant form of “RXXXXX” (banned) is obviously of the opinion the visible destruction of a couples personal life is a matter for public interest. That same view is the general reason why Nettles blog continues to exist.

      The Questioners Reply: Good reason !


      *FULL DISCLOSURE* It might make you need to run out and buy more tin foil to avoid splodey heads – But Despite your proclamations of my motives in the case I have consistently warned the GZ family to think about what adds value to them, and what are the reasons for engaging in outlines for public consumption. To that extent I have consistently advised against, and refused to be the publisher for, numerous personal outlines.

      As I said in a recent correspondence (which was NOT about this place) – "Are you sure you want to do this"? "Why would you want this discussed"? "what value does it provide for you and/or your family"?

      If a person cannot find a clear reasonable justification, that provides value to their position or life, then why engage in a public arena? Even to correct matters (such as the mistaken beliefs entrenched upon the constructed opinion of this blog) that hold no bearing upon current circumstances other than a momentary feeling of satisfaction that will be gone as soon as you read the hate-filled diatribes you are surely to be met with.

      Would it not be better to just live quietly, without all the drama, for a while.

      Remembering what strength, and peace, there may be in silence.

      But wait, D'oh, that would mean I held no individual motive, wha, huh?

      • The irony is rich because The Conservative Outhouse: The Last Refuse is speculation and preconceived delusion central. Where is the Angela Corey FOIA documents you were flapping your gums about but never delivered. Where is the documentation you promised that proved trayvon had committed acts of violence at krop that you never delivered. Maybe if you put your hands together and chant with your magic thinking powers to your imaginary middle eastern wish granting desert space wizard he will magically make them appear. You are are arrogant dishonest blowhard Sundance…….even worse than Leatherhead

      • Are you really doing ok?

        The emails you forwarded to me provide some background information on Christi O’Connor. They were not about GZ and SZ’s divorce.

        I hope the person who sent them to you know how you’ve just characterized their research.

        “As for the rest of your Rabbit Hole trail…. allow me to offer a suggestion: If an elephant walks through your front yard, how many pancakes does it take to fill a canoe?” 🙂

        • Of course SD wants people to be quiet, then only He can be the bringer of the Truth, as he sees it. But, that has no bearing on things. I’ll disagree somewhat as to whether people should identify themselves, as I see that as a personal decision and they may well have reason to maintain their anonymity. I believe that everyone here as in other blogs is adult enough to understand this, and use whatever information provided accordingly.

      • Sundance Cracka does not fit in this description >>>>>> It is within that possibility, however remote, that *most* retain a tenuous grip upon to avoid having to a.) Admit they are wrong, and/or subsequently b.) admit their preconceptions were based on flawed logic from bias. <<<<<<<<<<

      • IMHO Nettles is the anthesis of the mindset that feeds on the soap opera of other peoples lives…. I suspect he meant “antithesis”, but even so, he appears to think it means the opposite of what it does mean

        noun, plural an·tith·e·ses /.
        1. opposition; contrast: the antithesis of right and wrong.
        2. the direct opposite (usually followed by of or to ): Her behavior was the very antithesis of cowardly.
        3. Rhetoric .
        a. the placing of a sentence or one of its parts against another to which it is opposed to form a balanced contrast of ideas, as in “Give me liberty or give me death.”
        b. the second sentence or part thus set in opposition, as “or give me death.”
        4. Philosophy , See under Hegelian dialectic.

      • Let me try this again..
        I do not completely disagree with you SD in regards to the use of family coming fwd. here.
        However, I take personal offense to you stating everyone who comes here has been entrenched in preconceived beliefs that they can not be opened minded to your POV. I certainly had no prior beliefs to this case other then what I have maintained.
        I have been over this many times. Philosophy and ideology, not one in the same. There is a time and place to insert which one uses to evaluate. You just narrowly look at everything through political glasses. As far as logic goes I wrote a post on your concept of logic.

        Your edge of the seat mentality, great for blog postings and to captivate the audience. But it is very condecending and prideful when you claim you leave a trail of bread crumbs. How is one critical of you to take you seriously? When someone asks specific questions and you lead them on a wild goose chase, then claim ….. see I told ya so.
        What are you waiting for?

        Minding that you still have an audience where you do no wrong, I think you just come here because the other mods. have banned you from involving the blog to go down the Zimmerman rabbit hole anymore.

    • Are they not peripheral to the GZ case? And would it not be a distraction towards trying to resolve some of the outstanding issues in the GZ case?

              • Hi Jordan,

                I haven’t made any changes to this account and I won’t be for the foreseeable future.

                From my end, I’m seeing on this account, the email is different than you normally post. it has 3 h’s in the front of your normal email address.

                I had to authorize you as a new commenter here. Lucky for you, I noticed it at 2am and authorized it. Now I see there is a 3rd one that occurred when I got up this morning.

                In the 3rd one, there is a qhh in front of your normal email address.

                Pinecone had this problem at one time and I had to authorize many accounts each time she logged on. If she drops by, perhaps she can tell you what is happening. She knew what the problem was, it was on her end and she apologized for all the new email addys.

                You may want to sign out of your wordpress account, sign back in and change your password.

                I’ve sent off an email to wordpress advising what has happened to you and asking if it’s a problem with their software. I’ll let you know if I hear anything.

            • see next to your name, now it is a purple and white pinwheel looking thing instead of your picture you had before. Mine use to be a lil monster face.

              • Weird ..

                the comment I made about asking you to be my girlfriend was misstated. I jokingly asked if you had been cheating on me when you abruptly disappeared briefly…long ago.

                • LOL must have been when I went to Texas last summer for 2 weeks. I read a little but enjoyed visiting family, which I am so thankful I did as my uncle passed away in October, about 6 weeks after I came home.

        • I truly believe at tilting at windmills as does the next individual, however, I suggest that there are other priorities which deserve a higher attention.

          The Crump/Julison narrative is alive and well. That deserves to be a priority.

          Representatives Brown, Wilson, and Jackson Lee are in secure districts. Focusing on them is a wasteful use of precious time and energy. Furthermore, it leads to more racial animus when this case is one in which the facts are color-blind.

          The journalists, reporters, editors, commenters, and opinion writers are the ones who deserve attention and engagement on the issues. Those engagements should be done in a constructive manner.

        • Jordan- I just reread my comment on “not peripheral” and it is unclear. What I meant is that those legislators are not an essential part of the GZ/TM controversy, but tangential to it.

    • heartbreak? The real heartbreak is that we are too lazy to stop this crap. It is truly tragic that so many Americans actually believe Crump’s lies and somehow to connect this case to SYG laws. Can so many people be so damn stupid? Is this is a sign of illiteracy or deficient IQ’s?

      • Something is def going on, upthread your pix is not on your lil avatar thingy or whatever its called. Mine has changed too. Maybe Nettles has changed something behind the scene or WordPress? Def something…

      • I passed by a TV at work yesterday, and they were talking about the case and remarked on the right of people to have a life free of violence – of course they were talking about TM. My head was screaming, “yeah, I think GZ had the right to not be attacked!” It’s infuriating that the narrative lives on.

  4. This started earlier today, each time after typing lengthy replies. I have never seen this before. What is going on, Annette?

    Sorry, this comment could not be posted.

  5. Woops posted on wrong thread I THINK 🙂
    OK so this was posted on twitter on Aug 27 so the 4 to 6 weeks should be coming up soon, correct? That’s what I am looking forward too

  6. Sundance, you write –

    “It is within that possibility, however remote, that *most* retain a tenuous grip upon to avoid having to a.) Admit they are wrong, and/or subsequently b.) admit their preconceptions were based on flawed logic from bias.”

    Is it possible that there is a third explanation – that these preconceptions, however, incorrect are sincerely held, and based on a lack of accurate information, said information having been asserted, but never provided?

    • I would not go too deep in thought with his statement. He is being yet again patronizing as if he held no prior premise. That his own ideology could not possibly have affected his logic. That he and only he can lead others to the “truth.” I remember awhile back SD claimed this was a fight that chose the CTH, not the CTH choosing the fight. If that truly is the case there is no reason to leave a trail of bread crumbs. Seems those pesky, hungry birds ate the bread crumbs again.

  7. The more I think about what Scott did yesterday, the madder I’m getting.

    Here I am trying to help his family members and he attacked me yesterday for having an opinion that he’s been semi-honest online when posting to us.

    He admits he didn’t reveal his relationship and feels justified in doing so. Some here thinks that’s he’s right. He thinks that makes him totally honest.

    I don’t agree. This online community at this blog has been supportive of the Zimmerman family. That Scott sat here and watched us discuss that pay pal account and what was said or not said and said nothing to us, ticks me off. The silence and the lack of information is frustrating as hell.

    He admits to seeing the conversation Sundance and I had here online about an email Sundance shared with me and he gave me grief and tells me I’m dumb if I don’t get he has trust issues. What exactly was I suppose to do about the email that Sundance sent out uninvited? Why isn’t the anger being directed at Sundance and not me? I didn’t share the thing and I sounded a warning bell. What more could I do? One thing I’ve come to learn is I shouldn’t expect a thank you for giving them a heads up because he wasn’t thankful!

    Sundance advised me Scott was pissed with me in that earlier conversation. I was taken aback. Yesterday, I learned that Scott read that exchange and said nothing! I didn’t know why and he provided no explanation yesterday. But it was clear, he was pissed with me and I bit back.

    I value honesty and transparency. If you can’t be both, then don’t post here. Scott said he posted to clear up the record and wrong information. I’ve read his posts here, his posts didn’t do that here and the ones I found at the treehouse and at Diwataman’s blog didn’t bring clarity either.

    I’m getting some insight into what the defense had to deal with.

    I need to be offline for a few days related to a health issue. I’m o.k. and don’t want anyone to worry about me. I’ll check the site for any administration issues but may not be able to post for a few days.

    Sundance came here again to divert and distract the conversation. It’s up to you if you allow it.

    Have a terrific, safe and productive day. ♥

    • Hoping and praying everything works out well for you Nettles. I’ll be thinking about you.

      Agree. Every time SD comes here to post, it is only to create turmoil, and to get a rise out of those he knows will respond. Honestly he isn’t worth it. As many have said, he always has an agenda.

    • I missed what happend Nettie. Had lots of chores yesterday. Can you direct me to the discussion?
      I understand what you are saying though. I was attempting to draw that person out for quite some time, and to my suprise he was silent even when I was very through about what I felt occured with the pay pal and who may had been advising GZ and MOM got the blame. Maybe that is why he wanted to remain anon?
      As for your comment on what the defense team had to deal with….Spot on. It is something I felt since the paypal fiasco. I wont comment any further being I had not seen the exchange.

        • I’m at a loss what to do with the other accounts I suspect. Asking them seems to be out of line for some.

          IMO, we shouldn’t have to guess who has an agenda. We are trying to be supportive. To take and give nothing back seems awfully one-sided to me. I think those of us here deserve more.

          • I have given up searching for others agenda. For those who for whatever reason want to remain anonymous may never come into the light. I found out it is very easy (even with the best intentions) when placed in the position of sharing some information it is not always in anyones best interest. On one hand I do question why those so close to the case pretended not to be close to the case, but speak anon so publicly. Then again I feel it is their right to remain anon if they would like.
            It makes no difference to me. What makes the difference is what they support, which most seem removed from the inner circle and maybe that is why they choose to remain anon and speak so publicly. All in all it appears now GZ is a very different person then what they use to know. So I take what they say with a grain of salt anyways.

            • I got an email from Scott filling me in a little more on what he has been dealing with. Suffice to say, it’s a lot.

              Yesterday, I forgot some very good advice; always be kind to others because you have no idea what they are dealing with.

              I sincerely apologize to Scott for my crass behavior.

    • “The more I think about what Scott did yesterday, the madder I’m getting.”
      There lies the rub, WTF did I do but call you out for calling me “semi-honest” and to tell me I had no balls?

      “Here I am trying to help his family members and he attacked me yesterday for having an opinion that he’s been semi-honest online when posting to us.”
      The attack was yours and yours alone

      “He admits he didn’t reveal his relationship and feels justified in doing so. Some here thinks that’s he’s right. He thinks that makes him totally honest.”

      “I don’t agree. This online community at this blog has been supportive of the Zimmerman family. That Scott sat here and watched us discuss that pay pal account and what was said or not said and said nothing to us, ticks me off. The silence and the lack of information is frustrating as hell.”

      I didn’t reveal my relationship because I didnt feel the need to. I am not sure what you mean about sitting here while you discuss the paypal account and saying nothing. I have no idea what you are talking about, Since the trial I have been rebuilding personally, not following the blogs like I used to. In fact, my inbox is full with notifications about new blog threads I haven’t even opened yet.

      “He admits to seeing the conversation Sundance and I had here online about an email Sundance shared with me and he gave me grief and tells me I’m dumb if I don’t get he has trust issues. What exactly was I suppose to do about the email that Sundance sent out uninvited? Why isn’t the anger being directed at Sundance and not me? I didn’t share the thing and I sounded a warning bell. What more could I do? One thing I’ve come to learn is I shouldn’t expect a thank you for giving them a heads up because he wasn’t thankful!”

      I have come to find out that the email was not mine. I was told about the thread discussing the email by a friend and I came to investigate it. I would be very unhappy with someone sharing my personal email but since it wasnt mine I am not sure how to respond. I was upset at the possibility but was certain that I never said anything to anyone that would have been detrimental to the case. Further, can you show me one single instance of my being pissed at you for merely accepting an email that was sent to you? You cannot because it never happened. (see below: honesty and transparency)

      “Sundance advised me Scott was pissed with me in that earlier conversation. I was taken aback. Yesterday, I learned that Scott read that exchange and said nothing! I didn’t know why and he provided no explanation yesterday. But it was clear, he was pissed with me and I bit back.”

      While I am not sure how SD would know I was “pissed” at you, its just not true. Where did I ever say I was pissed at you for accepting an email? Didnt happen. (see below: honesty and transparency)
      That you state you found out yesterday that I read that exchange is just a plain lie. Go back to the thread where I made the comment asking if it was my email that was shared and you responded directly to me telling me to ask SD why he forwarded the email, which I promptly did. (see below: honesty and transparency)

      “I value honesty and transparency. If you can’t be both, then don’t post here. Scott said he posted to clear up the record and wrong information. I’ve read his posts here, his posts didn’t do that here and the ones I found at the treehouse and at Diwataman’s blog didn’t bring clarity either.”

      What do you want from me? What do you want clarified? You are beyond dim-witted if you dont understand the need or desire to remain somewhat anonymous throughout the trial. I was trying to gather (and supply) data for one reason. To keep GZ out of jail. I didnt read blogs or post anywhere for any other reason. I have no motivation but that. Since the trial, I have hardly followed anything online.

      “I’m getting some insight into what the defense had to deal with.”

      You are too rude and crass to have the benefit of further banter. I came here to have a discussion with you about the case and to ask you why you find me (someone you have never met) “semi-honest” and all you have done is berate me.
      You call me dishonest, tell me I have no balls, tell me that we have no appreciation for your blog or the supporters, tell me how I have pissed you off, etc. You seem to know so much about me but yet manage to get it all wrong.
      You have a really strange way of welcoming discussion to your blog. As I mentioned several times, I was looking forward to a discussion with you and the other supporters but you rail on about idiotic things. You accuse me and the rest of the D team of not being thankful for the support but you don’t even give someone a chance to make such statements. Frankly, words cannot express the gratitude that I have personally for everyone’s help.

      You invite people into your living room and then you throw a pie in their face and demand answers and kudos before they even sit down. You might want to give a person a chance to catch their breath first. You are so self-absorbed in waiting for praise you miss the benefit of knowledge that you might be provided.


      • LOL, what a mess. I got your email that you vented on the blog before you saw my apology in an email or the public one on this blog. No worries. After learning more about what you are going through, I hope it helped you some.

        One thing I want to be very clear about. Until yesterday, I didn’t know letsbefairtogz was “Ken”. Yes I knew lbftgz read the exchange and wanted more information but until yesterday I didn’t know that was Ken.

        So when you are reading Sundance telling me what you don’t believe to be right, why not shoot me an email (if you want to stay private) and say Annette, I never told Sundance I was mad at you about that.

        You had an opportunity right there to correct some wrong information. To some extent, that belief that you were already pissed with me led to some of my anger yesterday.

        Anyway, I trust we have cleared the air and can move forward. As I have tried to do with this thread is send a message to the family and to the defense that there is this online community here that would appreciate a little more information now that the threat of trial is over.

        I’ve reached out to the defense and heard nothing. So far, Scott you are the only family member to talk. Is there anything right now you can share on some of our questions?

        • sundance


          Sundance’s post to me on August 23, 2013 @ 12:31 am.


          Ken/Scott writes today at 3:08 upthread:

          While I am not sure how SD would know I was “pissed” at you, its just not true. Where did I ever say I was pissed at you for accepting an email? Didnt happen.”


          Sundance? Absolute certainty? Please explain.

        • I think it’s time that we all join forces to expedite the sanctions hearings, push George to seek punishment for Corey, Crump and their comrades and then to proceed to file civil suits against all that hurt him. They maliciously tried to put him in prison without any evidence to do so and fortunately without success. It is now his turn to do the same to them. Otherwise no one learns a thing and the beat goes on.

          • With all due respect Jordan, I don’t think we can “push Geo” to do anything. Right now I bet Geo has an overflowing plate, one that I sure he wouldn’t wish on anyone. I know we all hope and pray that something will come out of this but, we are all on the outside looking in. I am thinking there is a big reason they haven’t went thru on the sanctions stuff yet. First they all had to get caught up on all that the trial took out of them, and I am sure it took its toll. Also, with Ben K filing his suit, hopefully they have gained more info to back up what they already had going into the hearing that was halted. IMHO more the better. The most important thing at the time was getting George aquitted and now they aren’t rushed like before.

            Does anyone know any court dates on Ben K case?

            • Bear in mind that there is a sequence of legal events that could position MOM and the sanctions issue in a stronger position.

              The deference to the prosecution is tremendous. If i were MOM, I might want to get some of this Ben K case out there to soften up the legal ground.

              MOM said he was going for the sanctions. He has been true to his word. I would expect no less now.

              • I expect no less either. Not being of the “legal mind” if you will. I do understand there are a lot of things – steps I guess before getting to the motion filing. Do you know and if so can you explain or maybe point me in a direction? I remb (posted an old tweet, about Omara in 4 to 6 weeks requesting a sanctions hearing. I believe it was on/around Aug 24 or some where near. SO by that time frame, I figure we may hear SOMETHING soon) TIA

                • Arkansasmini – I am reading the same few tea leaves that you are. I don’t know their timetable and I can’t offer any further facts beyond what has been reported.

                  Once George was acquitted, it would be normal for a small operation like MOM’s practice to recalibrate, get some income rolling in again, take advantage of the media opportunities, give people some time off, etc. All this after 1 1/2 years in a time-limited legal pressure cooker.

                  The pressure that the MOM/West team was under is not easily understood. Whatever they did, argued to the court, put down in writing, had to be correct.

                  The more people you have involved in an operation, the more chance there is for error. there is the ever present danger of compartmentalization of key facts (the same is true for the prosecution.) With so much speculation abounding, everything has to be carefully vetted before being accepted as grounded in fact. The obfuscation from the prosecution and misdirection from Crump et al, made this exceptionally tricky. If you add to that, what seems to be a wide variety temperaments from the greater Zimmerman family, it probably got sticky at times.

                  But at the end of it all, there was acquittal, and now, I suspect, recalibration.

              • Mike McDaniel’s latest update should give us all more insight into a better strategy and timeline for MOM to take. First thing first.


                i have a suspicion that Corey is going to get hammered, more than once. I sure as hell hope that bar steps in as this all unfolds. Her only hope is that Scott and/or Bondi will rescue her but I now see her as a liability. What does she have offer to our citizens who now have seen her botch 3 major cases within a short period of time? Add her atrocious malicious, highly visible publicized actions and she’s a loser.

                I think both Scott and Bondi will face stiff challenges even if we discard the Corey mess. I voted for both of them but I made a mistake. Scott bought the election.. we all know that.. and yet his wife essentially still retains control of that drug company.

                To me., that is a serious conflict of interest as we saw when Scott wanted mandatory drug tests on certain citizens applying for benefits. IIRC, that company would be the financial beneficiary.


                I just do not see Corey remaining in the game.

                Bondi has been counting on the black vote which is why she is so chummy with Crump but they did not get their way when George was set free. IDK how the black community feels and thinks about the outcome. Who do they blame?

      • I would like some clarification on who told the Zimmermans to move the money out of the pay pal account. SD claims MOM knew about it prior to the 1st bond hearing. Is this true?

          • We are aware that Ken/Scott talked to MOM prior to the 1st. bond hearing due to the jailhouse conversations. So a few things could have taken place. That is why I asked SD numerous times who advised GZ to move the money? MoM did not call SZ @ that time & she obviously was being directed to Ken/ Scott by GZ to take over the account.

          • Core, I have the same thoughts about that information, still in a position where I am concerned who reads here and elsewhere.

            • A rightful concern, IMHO. So much still up in the air, but hopefully one day some questions will be answered one way or another. Some say the threat is over, but what from my side of the computer screen is, that only the threat of GZ being convicted in FL for 2nd Degree Murder. For that, THANK GOD, he was acquitted. I think too that once the legal team (whom ever it is) has had time to regroup and gather much needed paperwork, we will see motions being filed. That is my hope anyways. No citizen should ever have to deal with what Geo did. Praying for Geo and his family ALL of them, safety and a sense of calm.

              • With all the new revelations throughout the last few months regarding friend and family relationships, posters online, MOM bashing on a few sites, as well as some evidence Sundance had been doing what I expected (not speaking with true sorces, or sources with an agenda), does it not seem important to know the truth about the pay pal accounts?
                It is not as if anyone who has paid close attention to the case has not had these questions. On top of it about 20% of the funds raised by donors has yet been made public. The donors deserve the truth.

                My question has little risk. In fact it would shed much light on the early days surrounding the trust or lack of GZ had in the “system”.
                I do not believe it is fair to any supporter that anyone involved personally with GZ early on and which may have allowed Shellie, GZ, and MOM, to take the fall for something they too had a hand in.

                As far as Nettles goes calling out Scott. I too am sorry he was indirectly involved and affected by this railroading. Many others were as well none more the GZ and SZ. But, Scott chose to come online under a handle, and he since has been identified. I understand Nettles frustration. Now it appears supporters would rather sweep his influence and direction about the paypal during those early days under the rug. It is a less then honest attitude. It really is.

                Here is a clip from many news articles:
                “Wilson, the man O’Mara identified as the person who administered Zimmerman’s online fund-raising drive, at one point asks Zimmerman whether the lawyer knows “the volume” of the donations that came in from the public. Zimmerman said O’Mara knew about the attempted transfer of $37,000, but not any more than that.
                They agreed to keep it that way.”

                Shellie trusted Scott. George trusted Scott.
                It would only make sense that someone who had talked to MOM( the only one including GZ&SZ up until that point) had up to the second information about the accounts while GZ was in jail awaiting bond, until it was handed over to Shellie would have discussed the volume with MOM. Instead he “walks amoungst us, less then honest, and Nettles and now suppose now I should give him slack?

                • I am not saying anyone should or should not give slack. What I was saying is I could see where there is still concern about what is shared and what isn’t. I don’t know the laws well enough to say. Just my opinion. I don’t know if somehow they can come back and charge Scott/Ken for something or use it in some way against Geo in a possible civil case or even the sanctions or even possible malicious pros if they go that route. JMHO, its still very soon for family members to be spilling much. Also, I would hope whoever says anything would go thru Geo first, or else I personally would have concerns if they have an agenda or not. HAVING SAID THAT, yes I am as curious as the rest of yall. (whew I been listening to DD and West for last few hours and I need a nap. My head hurts lol)

                  • If they could charge GZ they would have. He had the right to remain silent in court. As for the recordings all they show is that Scott and GZ agreed to keep the volume from MOM. Which proves MOM was unaware of the amount in the funds. Also could become a factor in sanctions, because there is evidence that Bernie knew about the jail house calls PRIOR to the bond hearing.
                    As for civil suits, true, the rules of law are a little more flexible in what can be used such as a defendants character, but GZ has a defense to that if say, Scott advised him. GZ nor Shellie had access to the accounts at THAT time and it is known Scott was the only person that MOM spoke with after the arrest.
                    The only people who could have a go at Scott would be MOM, GZ and Shellie.

                    To tell you the truth Mimi, it appears GZ has cut many people off so much so it appears Scott went to the Treehouse to let off steam both public and private.

                    • It is established in the phone calls that neither shellie nor GZ had return calls from MOM. And Shellie tells GZ that Scott had spoke with MOM. Scott even says to GZ in a call he feels better after speaking with MOM.Search the enet for the calls.

                    • I believe the call I am talking about is the call where GZ tells Scott that he was waiting for return calls because he needs his meds and contacts. Scott said MOM was busy. They even discuss the interviews MOM was doing in the media. It appeared GZ was concerned about his character in the media and how MOM was handling it. Scott assures him MOM is doing good. It was the best media all week.

                    • Thankfully I have never been thru what Geo has, and I pray to GOD I nor anyone I know has to go thru it. But I can only imagine he has a wide spectrum of feelings. Also prob everyone and there uncle probably giving him advise on what he should do. Personally, and this is just my personal feelings that I have in my everyday life, If I give to someone (as in GZ legal acct) I do so from my heart and do not expect anything in return. Therefore, to ME, Geo doesn’t owe me anything, I gave of my on. No explanation of anything, because of my support. That’s just me, whether its my kids or whomever. BUT, now I have been used before and YES that really pisses me off. I do not like being deceived either. But in the case of giving support to GZ, no, I don’t feel deceived. I knew it was going for his legal and/or providing living expenses. I have been thinking too, what if Geo is reading blogs and sees where people think he owes them explanations of behind the scenes goings on, that would be a lot on the mind and heart. He IMHO is in no position to say much of anything, considering what the unknown future holds (DOJ investigation/BGI and so forth). Maybe one day he will write a book. I will buy it. I just hope that the SAO gets investigated and held accountable for the wrongs they have done. JMHO and I totally respect everyone else right to opinion. And respectfully agree to disagree. Heck I have learned a lot for reading and participating in these blogs.

                    • Cut people off? a month or even a few months of private time and little contact is hardly an uncommon response to serious stress and trauma. It is natural to need to be alone when there is so much grief to process.

                    • Just my two cents. I agree with Mimi as to the donations. I gave willingly to help George however it was needed. Personally I do not want an accounting nor will I ask who knew what when, or who told who to do what when. I did not buy into George’s life, I gave a gift. How that money was handled was up to George, his family and his attorneys. They are the ones that had to make the decisions, and I trust they all did the best they could under the circumstances.

                    • Nicely stated. I feel the same way. I don’t feel my donating gives me a right to say how it should be spent. That’s up to them.

                      I’m very happy with the result…..acquittal. 🙂

                    • The only issue I have with the fund is that promises were made to the public about full disclosure and accounting that were not kept. Even a final statement or receipts and disbursements would be nice. I would also, out of curiosity like to see the trust or terms of the trust simply because it was the first of its kind.

                    • Annette: I am only referring to the defense fund, which I would think by now has nothing left in it. I hardly doubt that the fund would affect any divorce proceedings. Not sure why you don’t think O’Mara has a obligation to honor the promises he made. I do not know how to find it but I am sure he originally posted details about that fund, including the CPA who would monitor it. Yes, for a while, he sporadically provided updates but that is not what I am talking about. Who was the CPA, how was he paid.. etc. Who actually controlled the fund and wrote the checks. What did George have to get money that he wanted or needed?

                      What was the bar’s final position on the way it was set up? The Bar has very strict rules about these trusts. Remember all of those discussions? I am not implying that any improprieties occurred insofar as wasting the money. I also am not the least bit interested in who donated because he promised anonymity.

                      Actually I am surprised that the media did not investigate the fund in detail. OTH, maybe they did and found nothing. All I read were comments about how stupid folks were to donate but I vaguely recall at least one article about the issues to which I refer.

                    • Some of us did not give blindly. Every website that collected stated there would be an accounting. Prior to GZ going to jail he had control after that others had. I trust MOM and GZ ……..the intermediary? Not so much! Especially knowing that person advised GZ to withold info from his atty. That person had the bond revoked wasting a lot of the funds!

                    • I am with you on this Jordan. If you say something do it. It reminds me of the movie TommyBoy…..I will let it speak for itself!

        • “I would like some clarification on who told the Zimmermans to move the money out of the pay pal account.”

          Anybody who’s ever read anything about how PayPal operates and how they’ll freeze an account indefinitely at the drop of a hat if it has a sudden influx of a large amount of money?

          In other words, like the government, they presume the money is guilty until proven innocent and arrest it.

  8. re: Scott/Nettles

    No matter how good of a writer you may be, no matter how well ONE thinks they have put a point across … there is no substitute for mano e mano, or voice to voice discussion. We all blog alot on many subjects, but if we were to meet and discuss we would be able to read all the lil nuances to determine the spirit in which things are said or ability to sift through information quickly to correct misconceptions and replace with facts. I can understand people wanting to protect their info, etc., however, I do think for some of the people we have encountered through this LONG fight for George, and our contempt for those that put him in that situation in the first place, sometimes you gotta just say … hey, gimme your number … I want to call you. If you are truly paranoid .. you can get around that by having a tracphone or something like that so you can get on the phone, actually hear the person’s voice, and establish a real dialog. I’ve often wondered how different it would be if the same ppl here and at the CTH were to meet and talk, we would see each other differently for the most part. I discovered this to be true when for years I blogged locally and then we all decided to meet up. The anon screen names became people before your very eyes and once back at blogging you had a different respect. Now am I saying we should all start calling each other … probably not the best idea. However, for those that are in the leadership or prominent roles it might be good to touch base once in awhile. I could be all wrong on this, but when it comes to family of a prominent case and people leading the charge to right a wrong, I think sometimes you have to reach out verbally.

    ^ That said … ALL I WANT TO KNOW is what is the status of the MOTION FOR SANCTIONS. Has ANYONE reached out to the defense to get an explanation as to what we are waiting for? This Motion is the FIRST and foremost step to begin the process of exposing the dark side of the Florida SOA. What is the hold up? Mouthpiece for defense has told us stuff in the past so why the silence now? Why doesn’t the defense put up some kind of explanation as to the status on its website? Yes, we are happy George is free … but we AIN”T DONE YET. And we won’t be happy until those that tried to railroad George PAY. George supporters should NOT be satisfied until we get a hearing on this motion. AND there should be a movement across this nation that you cannot OVER CHARGE a defendent. There has to be a movement to stop this practice, otherwise, we are like back in the dark ages where they tortured you until you admitted your guilt. No difference IMO.

  9. Sundance, it appears that email you forwarded wasn’t written by a member of the George Zimmerman family. It looks like you got played and the Zimmerman family got smeared.

    What did you do to vet that email?

  10. NY Times Managing Editor Dean Bacquet gave a speech yesterday at Penn State U.


    His most interesting statement was the following:

    ““It is not my fear that newspapers will die,” he said. “My only fear is that the craft of witnessing and reporting on the truth will die.”

    This is a perfect opportunity to challenge in a constructive manner some of the NY Times reporting on the case and ask them to report the rest of the story. Sometimes Bacquet is too close to producing the news that it is not a question of reporting on the truth not happening – it is a question of whether the truth is being truthfully reported.This certainly was a key problem with some of the general reportage on the GZ/TM case.

    In this age of twitter, email, the internet etc, I have found that an old fashioned letter, even if constructed with a word processing program, gets a thoughtful reply from an editor, or reporter, not always, not most of the time, but sometimes.. Calling them names gets a quick trip into the trashcan. But a letter that gets a reply means that you have had an impact. Bacquet gives us an opportunity today to do something constructive.

  11. Note to Jordan: Your last two posts; the one with your picture has no link to a wordpress blog and the one with a pink box does. Also it registers two different email addresses you posted from.

      • If you’re getting a notification email of everyone’s comments, including your own, then you’re logged into WordPress from a different account that’s connected to some other email address of yours, perhaps one you don’t actually have any more.

        Log out from WordPress.

        Find a log-in screen for them somewhere where you can pretend you forgot your password and supply them with the email at which you’re getting these notifications.

        Then when you get an email to that account, it should show you exactly which screen name that account is linked to, and provide you with a link where you can put in a new password.

        • Thanks .. I am fine now but I have never seen some of those issues before especially about not being able to post. I trashed all of my comments today that were in my inbox.. It was all of the posts I had made since yesterday. Weird.

  12. AEG was found by the Jury to have hired Conrad Murray at the request of MJ, BUT they were NOT held liable for the actions of MJ & Conrad Murray NOR damages to MJ’s children NOR Katherine Jackson.

    The Jury found MJ to be an adult & responsible for his actions as well as Conrad Murray in the use of propathal. The Civil attorney’s ask for 85 million per child/Katherine, close to a billion dollars in total for loss earnings, etc., , they will receive nothing. The case had 80 days of testimony & hundreds of thousands of documents in the lengthy trial.

      • minpin – Everything on the blog doesn’t pertain to GZ r maybe you haven’t noticed! Were you the one bitching about Cruz in the past couple of weeks? I skipped the comments. Nettles sited a case 2 days ago in which a daughter murdered her mother & brother before her father shot & killed her & her husband & OF COURSE it had NOTHING to do w/the GZ case. I don’t need your approval or smart ass comments to me about anything I comment on, if you don’t like it, DON’T READ IT but your pathetic insults toward me are tiresome & puerile.

          • Nettles – from reading about your health problems, I was shocked you have had cancer 4 different times, if I read it correctly, I added you to my daily prayers, you are one courageous lady. Then someone else shared a story about their husband’s poor health/experience, I was saddened to read the information, but encouraged at the positives they shared in their comment that they got through it & were encouraging you.. I enjoyed Danny’s comments he shared about the celebration w/his wife, I enjoy reading about his family/children, Danny no doubt is a family man which is always a positive thing.

            When the jury found MJ responsible for his own death, I was thinking about a Civil Suit against GZ, TM would too be responsible for the beat down that led to his death & also for his character, something that hurt MJ’s case tremendously, ALL comes in at the Civil Trials, something Tracy/Sybrina don’t want. Although MOM stated that possibly GZ could get “immunity” on any Civil Suit at one time, it appears now MOM wouldn’t likely be representing GZ, civil suits are very expensive & lawyers have to be paid, imo, it isn’t likely MOM would do another case for GZ, especially pro bono.

              • jordan2222 – I have no idea what MOM is making from CNN but imo, it doesn’t matter, it hardly makes up for 16 months of no salary. I don’t know many people that own bushiness with ongoing overhead that could go 16 months without drawing a salary, their secretaries continue to need to be paid as well as others in the office, some volunteered at MOM’s, but many worked in the office as paid employees, normal cost for running a business which aren’t cheap PLUS ALL of the personal obligations in MOM’s personal life such as home mortgage, insurance, multiple car notes & family obligations, etc.

                How many months/years would it take for MOM to make up for his loss of earnings for the 16 months? I speculate MOM is building his practice up w/clients that can pay & the CNN salary helps his earnings. Hopefully the NBC suit will materialize & MOM/West will get monies, but hell could freeze over first, we’ve seen little movement in that case.

                  • Jordan – I don’t know the answer to my own question, but my suspicion is that the renumeration is some relatively small monthly stipend plus a fee for each appearance plus expenses,if any are incurred. I may be way way off on that.

                    The value to the attorney who has that arrangement is the free publicity and exposure.he or she obtains as a result of somewhat frequent TV appearances. Such advertising is priceless.

                    • hooson1st – I think your speculation is probably accurate about what MOM might be paid by CNN, the exposure is priceless to MOM/NeJames, & others that contribute that are practicing attorney’s since many are not practicing that are regulars on the show. I too think MOM probably receives a fee for each appearance since he likely does research to prepare & of course his expenses would be paid if he were on their set.

                      imo, those that host the shows, such as Vinnie, etc., probably make a decent salary since it is their job everyday.

                • $400.00 an hr. with death threats hummm. Much more the 250 a year! For CNN, I may even do probono 😉 But a guy has to make a living!

              • I never understood this meme. Even if the pay is good or great, to get it, Mr. O’Mara as to work for it. It’s not just handed to him b/c he defended George Zimmerman.

                He earns his pay whatever it is at CNN by reviewing their cases and researching that state’s laws.

                So for this opportunity to earn a living this way he should perhaps pay George?

                Like I said, I never got this point.

                • Risk versus reward. O’Mara made a business decision to take the case. Surely, he was counting on future rewards, doncha think?The only way George will ever be able to pay him would be if George earns enough money to do that.

                  Pro bono? I hardly thing MOM took this case out of the goodness of his earn with no expectation of future financial benefits.

                  • jordan2222 – Baez won KC ‘s case, it has been deemed the “trial of the century.” Baez has not made a lot of money, he wasn’t an established attorney to begin with, but Baez has his 3rd home in bankruptcy because he hasn’t made a lot of money after KC’s case NOR gotten a lot of clients because of his representation of her.. imo, MOM/West took this case because they were passionate about it. MOM/West DESERVE to be paid EVERY penny from GZ imo, neither attorney appears to be reaping monies from the case. MOM was an analyst as well as NeJame before they signed on to contribute to CNN.

                    When attorney’s win high profile cases, there is no guarantee that there will be a big pay day, Baez couldn’t even get a book published, he had to finance it himself. KC’s case, like GZ’s are not cases w/popular verdicts, no guarantees of monies to be made now or ever off the case.

                    • art: I am NOT saying that they do not deserve to be paid. I am only saying they took the risk of never getting a dime.

                  • I agree with that. I don’t see anything wrong with it either that he hoped it helped his career.

                    You don’t take a case that is going to bring death threats to you and your family for kicks, that’s for sure.

                    The relationship between them, was good for him and good for George. I don’t see the problem. Isn’t it true that any lawyer who took the case had this potential?

                    The allegation that Mr. O’Mara took the case and was party to the railroad against George (the glance), has been debunked. O’Mara and West worked their butts off for an acquittal and they got it. Thank goodness.

                    • No. Sooner and Ulhrig nope. No potential to any case this big EVER. They proven themselves. As far as Mark. We can be the ones to say, “I tolda so” 🙂

                  • If you know you will not be getting paid besides future rewards… Of course. Nothing is FREE. You are really a fool to believe so.

                • It is interesting to note from MOM’s interview in which he stated: (1) he would continue to pursue the sanctions from the criminal trial, & (2) he is a representative as well as the Beasley firm on the NBC suit & would continue to pursue that case BUT both of those cases INVOLVE MONIES, monies MOM hopes to get which would pay MOM/West. Even if awarded monies on the sanctions, it wouldn’t cover the legal fees of MOM/West, plus, GZ/SZ would want some of the sanction money imo. MOM doesn’t anticipate that to be a huge amount of monies.

                  MOM indicated, imo, he was done w/GZ in any other cases, he has stated many times “he wants to be paid.” imo, he NEEDS/deserves his money! I never criticized MOM, ever, I found MOM/West to be fine gentleman, passionate about GZ’s innocence, & excellent attorney’s, imo, their representation of GZ might have been the difference of GZ being a free man or perhaps, if GZ had other attorney’s, he might have spent his life in prison, something we’ll never know.

                  jordan – $ 250,000.00 wouldn’t even remotely cover the mortgages on MOM’s office/home, PLUS all the other overhead that has been mentioned.

                  • Would it not be something if we did hear the delay is MOM removing himself from all this? An atty. can not just leave a case of motions filed. All of that was stated prior to the PR planned after trial. And the first inclination was the pic @ KelTech. Seems many more on the outside are concerned about money well spent then GZ is. But like I said
                    at least GZ got the best atty. Paypal can buy!

        • Sorry. Would not watch a RZjr. show. He is out for exposer. Wants to be a singer. He played the SD black on white crime meme and the social and tv. media game. I think he was far removed from GZ prior to this and although I commend him for coming through in hard times he is a JR. true and through. Sr. wrote a book. Asked for donations yet the same people bitch about MOM getting a JOB after not getting paid a dime! Pot meet Kettle!

    • WOW crazy Witch! I didn’t know (until reading this article, thanks Jordan) that A Corey posted Ben Kruidbos termination letter on the SAO Website! I am now relistening to his testimony at the sanctions hearing. Cool how you pick up things that you didn’t before. Also, I would think one of the things the Def had to wait on was an official transcript from all the proceedings. LMBO Bernie oh Bernie I hope you get to have your time on deck 🙂

      • Other than the sanctions hearing, I know of no other way punish Bernie. At the time, I read legal opinions that Nelson should have stopped the trial as soon as she knew he had lied to her directly. Some said he should have been arrested. I am still perplexed about how she could legally allow him to remain on the case. So now I am wondering if the sanctions hearing prove conclusively that he lied, what can be done to him. Nelson gave him more than one chance to correct the lie but he refused. That should have been an explosive moment. I was in awe that she totally ignored it. Would you know how to find that exchange?

    • LOL Nasty Nat cut them some slack as she says because they only had 1 hour

        • Glad to hear that. LOL I figured that because of the Traybot haters tweets. SMH. Wonder if the TrayParents will have presser to comment lol again SMH

        • Sorry, I disagree the show played on all the meme that made the Zimmerman case so polemical. Innocent, angelic,honor student young black male. Racist southerner, loving parents, grieving mother. Talk about the distance of the shot, whether GZ had other options besides shooting. Completely ignores the injuries to GZ, and the story of that night. The show just play on all those memes, shot while walking black. It was a rehash of everything that the media and the Scheme Team said about the case and how they wanted to portray it.

  13. If Don West does NOT participate in the sanctions, after he was so strong with his defense and angered by what the SAO did, I will BE SHOCKED. He seems like a man with strong ethics, IMHO

    • My understanding is that George hired MOM. Then MOM hired West to help because that case was so huge, had so many moving parts, and time was limited because Nelson was always rushing them onward. Mom sought out Beasley for the media suit, I think they’re going to be the big guns, and MOM will provide the link/info to the case – but sort of he’s “in charge” in that he’s the one who had the authority to invite Beasley into the case. I haven’t heard of West being involved in that. Then there’s the sanctions. I’m wondering if that is “small enough” of a case that one law office can handle it, and that’s why we haven’t heard about West being involved with that.

      In other words, the case seems to belong to/flow from MOM, and he would be in charge of what help is needed and who would meet that need. My guess is that West’s only part in this would be to say “yes” or “no” if MOM asked him to step in again. Of course, with MOM appearing to be angry with George, who knows what will happen and who will do which legal action.

      • Didn’t Don West quit his Federal Def Lawyer job to join this case? I would love to follow another Don West case. He has passion that is for sure. In rewatching hearings last night. I guess it slipped my memory, But on the whole DD/hospital lie. Mom (per BDLR and kinda West) was like oh no big deal when Guy told him in the hallway about no records and had known since Aug 2. West stated that he was VERY UPSET and Omara told him to Handle it. West said this on the witness stand, This was when he was smiling at BDLR and he said he wasn’t smiling because he found anything funny, Stated he was mad then AND to be honest STILL MAD. I do hope he is in on the Sanctions, part of it was his time $ included. The other part was cant remb exactly how listed, something like Judicial inquiry? That’s the one where BDLR was next witness before it got shut down….

  14. Email received from Robert Zimmerman Sr.

    “Dear Ms. Kelly,

    Your invitation is appreciated.

    I routinely review information on the internet pertaining to George.
    However, I rarely comment. I remain cognizant of the fact George’s legal representatives
    have issues outstanding with the court. Additionally, the Justice Department continues their

    Your support of George is greatly appreciated.


    Robert Zimmerman”

  15. I personally don’t want to hear ANY inside information until the statute of limitations are over for every involved party (on the GZ side). And if I never hear any inside info, that will be ok too. There are just too many crazies on the TM side. I also could care less what my donations were used for–there were no strings attached. GZ won and that is what matters.

    • I agree. I think there are far too many legal loose ends that need to be tied up before any family member should speak about the case. No offense to anyone but, I think the worse thing any family member could do is to speak about an on going case and let’s be clear, George may have been found not guilty during his trial but that doesn’t mean he is in the clear yet. There are civil suits and the justice department investigation looming in the background and the rules regarding what can and can not be used against the person, are a lot different than a criminal trial.

      • I have zero legal understanding, but given the silence from most, I’d have to agree with you.

        That the threats have passed may not be an accurate statement.

        I did ask in my email invitation that if this was not a good time to talk about it online to let me know why. I got silence for the most part. Robert Sr. shone some light on that today in his email I posted.

        Why can reporters get an answer to a question but we can’t. Surely saying it’s not a good time to talk right now doesn’t hurt anyone.

        The silence ticks me off. We have been there. We are trying to be supportive. For pete’s sake legal people, I’m talking to you guys, throw us a bone!

        Will it put George in jail to tell us online when the sanctions hearing may be held?

        • It just goes to show you many still fear the power of the judicial system. And everything tney have spewed in support of GZ was all talk! After this I have a new persepective on why GZ may have went rouge after the trial. Every single person who said they supported him in his inner group SOLD HIM OUT! Why would they give away free what they later can sell? The whole future of cases excuse is bullshit. I for one seek answers to PUBLIC knowledge. Nothing inside! After all how does anyone expect to never have this happen again if anyones ass is covered? Told ya. I am a one man army most days! Disappointing to say the least. This is why our politicians can do what they do!

  16. A reminder: Saturday is George’s Birthday. The only family member to give a public email address has been Robert Jr.
    If you want to send George a birthday greeting Jr.’s email is: robertjzjrmedia@gmail.com

    I’m sure he will pass it along.

    Saturday is also Jaharvis Fulton’s birthday. I wish him a great one as well.

  17. Update on the leaked email:

    Sundance, you may have read here that Ken has seen the email and posted here that he is not the author. Please know I didn’t and still haven’t shared the email with anyone. Ken’s copy didn’t come from me.

    Now that a member of GZ’s family has seen it and had an opportunity to consult with the others, I can confirm 100% that no one in GZ’s family wrote it. As one family member wrote, “it sounds like the ranting of a crazy person.”

    That leaves the possibility that the email is from a very close friend of GZ’s or it’s a total fake.

    How am I to vet all of GZ’s close friends?

    Robert Sr.’s email gives me pause about what I read in this email. I’m leaning toward that it is indeed a total fake. Sundance sent it to me without first getting my agreement that I would keep it confidential, but out of respect for him and the sender, I decided to do just that. What I didn’t keep quiet about was the fact that private emails were being shared at the treehouse and I sounded a public warning bell about it.

    I really do want to share it so that you can see where the sender screams bias in his/her allegations against Mark O’Mara. Why Sundance didn’t question that bias is unclear to me.

    Anyway, it was Sundance who brought up the email here. It was he who said Ken was mad at me for sharing parts of it. I maintain, until this post, I’ve never shared parts of it (but I’m about to) and Ken now that he’s seen it, says he isn’t the writer and Sundance statement about his being mad at me for the email is untrue.

    So does Sundance think the sender was Ken? Did he get tricked?

    Back to something Robert Sr. shared today. He reads but chooses to post little. The sender of this now infamous leaked email told Sundance that they were made by O’Mara’s Law group to sign a confidentiality agreement that they would not post on blogs or talk publicly about the case. It appears not even George’s father is under that obligation. Perhaps the defense team will clear up at least that one point.

    Did any of GZ’s friends have to sign such a confidentially agreement? If the answer is no, I feel confident the information in the email is fake. When I read it, I think it came from a family member. I did suspect likely Ken. I now know it did not.

    Sundance, can you shine any light on this? Team Defense can you help me?

    • I don’t see how O’Mara & co. can get anyone to sign anything they don’t want to sign, so I’m assuming there was something offered in return for that signature.

      Who could have known something the defense wanted kept secret, and what was that something? Was it something this mystery party would ordinarily and otherwise have made public? If so, what incentive could change their mind about that?

      All I can come up with is employees and interns, who would be expected to observe attorney-client confidentiality anyway, having to specifically put it in writing so that they would face not only loss of employment and no hope of ever working in that field again, but ruination in civil court as well, no matter how much some “news” outfit paid them for a story.

      As for why we don’t always detect the bias of others if it happens to be one we share, if you’re leaned several degrees off of vertical, anyone else with that same lean looks like they’re standing straight up to you.

    • It does not appear as if you will get the answers you seek. As some supporters seem to believe that shedding a light on those who had an agenda 1. Contacted CTH and/or 2. Are afraid to know the truth and believe it affects future dealings. You must remember not all family and friends were on the MOM bandwagon especially after MOM took over. So the email may be from someone who GZ had contact with prior to MOMs takeover. They obviously vented to SD. SD even took a private matter to those he trusted atm.
      I for one am NOT seeking inside information. My questions are the result of PUBLIC information already available and yet most here want to protect Scott. I could not imagine even though “insider” info was shared with you, you will gain support from even your own followers to find out the truth.

      • SD didn’t take a private matter to those he trusted atm. SD didn’t know me. What little he knew of me was that I had mistakenly outed an email the defense sent to another GZ supporter.

        Does that make sense to you that I was trusted at the moment? Of course I was not trusted and quite understandably so. I hope to have raised my trust level with some since but at the time Sundance sent that out it was not because I was seen as trustworthy.

        The reason it was sent to me is another thing that got my suspicions raised again about what Sundance agenda was in sending it to me. Sundance was very clear why I was getting it. He felt I had influence over those who read at the CTH. He wanted to show this to me and convince me that O’Mara was a wrong choice for George. The email did not convince me for a very glaring reason. The sender screams their bias on why they might have a reason to lash out at O’Mara. So that left me wondering if the person wasn’t making stuff up to get at O’Mara. It could have been true but then again it could have been retaliation for something the writer openly shared.

        Why Sundance didn’t question that, I’m waiting to hear from him.

        • Well, he did have trust in you. He trusted that the email would sway you, and he trusted that you would convince others MOM was a pinky wearing prog!
          Was it a fake for that reason? I am not convinced YET. Compare the date of the email to what he and who was writing atm. Not just there but at Dmans as well.
          Have to think outside of the box, and again I go back to the jail house calls.
          I never liked the term “speaking in code” but for the lack of a better term right now, they were aware to do that on anything that was recorded. I am sure it could be done through email. Another thing, this is why I warned about Shellie. I wonder if she deciced to take a plea as to not throw others under the bus?

          • It appears that Shellie had decided to leave George at the time she took her plea. She and Kelly had Christi O’Connor all set up and I think they mapped out a strategy to roll out their narrative.

            Shellie did an hour long interview with Christi right after court on Aug 28th and what came out at first was 3 minutes of salicious headlines. Then on Sept. 8th the meme that George had changed…I don’t know who this guy is. That was taped on August 28th but released on Sept. 8th. The next day we have the drama at the house.

            Then I think it hit Kelly and Shellie how this could back-fire and land her in jail and they got quiet. Then they appeared to regroup and try again with NBC today show. But would anyone else want to interview her? Had she already lost credibility? Not sure, but she went quiet again. thank goodness!

            And judging by what came out so far, Shellie would have happily thrown them all under the bus. Most definitely George. “victory tour” “invinceable” “don’t know what he’s capable of”.

            This doesn’t sound like a person protecting the clan. When she took that deal she did it for what was best for her and only her.

            • There was no plea initially. She plead not guilty. I think her atty. along with what was going on internally is why she took a plea. I think after that there was nothing to lose. They both sold out if you ask me. He is just quit right now because of the DOJ investigation and civil suit(s). It is clear. None of these people involved will go away quietly. If it was me…you better believe ANYONE who spoke would be spitting in the wind.

    • I do not believe MOM had anyone sign a confidentiality agreement. I think he is a good judge of character and ensured many were kept at arms length after the pay pal fiasco appears even Shellie had issue with some. I am sure most family who have vented RZjr. Included were unaware of some of MOM & Wests plans. Maybe even for GZs own good he himself @ times. What struck me was when GZ was unsure if he would testify or not. He obviously was not aware the defense was closing that day and his possibility of testifying.

    • Nettles, think long time on why Sundance was so eager to give your something like that. Are you sure he didn’t just want to send you on a wild goose chase? Maybe I’m speaking up when I shouldn’t, but I would be really suspicious if I were you.

      • He was convinced she was close to the case. I believe he felt (if it was a fake) that she would have gave him inside information in order to dispute what was being said. For that reason it could be a fake. But it could not be as well. I could be a fake so that SD claims he did have sources. It could be a fake to try to get info. for a belief he had. Or it could be real by a fake person. Or it could be real by someone who wanted to vent.

    • JMHO, but since SD banned you from CTH, and wasn’t publicly a fan of you, the mere fact he sent it would raise a red flag to me. Maybe it was a setup to see if you would share it and then he could say blah blah. That too may still be on the table, as he came here talking about it.

      • Sundance is somewhat of an enigma, it is hard to fathom some of his actions when they are examined against some of his rhetoric.

        Sundance has a lot of talent in framing issues. All this other stuff, like the secret email sharing w/Nettles is baffling.

        I wonder if Sundance will illuminate what the true story (from his side) was with “Ken”.

    • Nettles, bless your sweet Canadian heart. I just wanted to point out a couple of assumptions. 1 – just because someone says they did or didn’t write an email, doesn’t mean it’s the truth. I’m not accusing anyone of anything, just pointing out the fact that it’s just words on a page, just as someone using a screen name and saying they are involved with the families is just words on a page. 2 – SDC may not have vetted that email because it lined up with his bias, as you said, or perhaps it was the other way around – maybe it was written to be that way specifically. Can a piece of paper be a sockpuppet? lol

      And I’m remembering when SDC said he went to FL and everyone he interviewed disparaged MOM. It seemed odd that such a well respected attorney had no one who liked him. It was against common sense. Many times pharmaceutical companies commission many studies, but only publish the ones they like. So we hear of this great study saying drug X helps problem Z – but maybe in reality, they commissioned 10 studies, and 9 studies said the drug had no effect, but we don’t hear that. You probably get my drift… and of course, this also boils down to just words on a page, too. ie, what do we KNOW is true, and what have we been TOLD is true…

      So maybe SDC got screwed believing who wrote a letter, or maybe we got screwed by believing anyone wrote the letter in the first place. Who knows? I’m not saying I have firm beliefs one way or the other, just that there is not usually incontravertible proof in this format….

  18. If Ken says that he wasn’t mad at you, then he would have had no reason to say something different to Sundance.

    Perhaps, Sundance has Ken confused with someone else. Or, perhaps, Sundance jumped to a conclusion based on an incorrect assumption that was lacking in foundation.

    • The way SD places everyone in certain categories dependent upon his personal beliefs I would bet money on it being assumption based. Then again SD has told me numerous times he speaks for himself or with knowledge to back up his conclusions..hummmmm.

      • She could redact it. But it seems she is playing it safe being she tested waters here and well I think you have read my responses. She has been in contact with RZjr. Which is quite funny his advise. I was so critical of his tweets and Treehouse support to black on white crime. Now he mentions after all this time the BGI/DOJ. I was branded over that the past 6-8months! Funny thing is up until I said strat4ever was a male was a connection made. The focus has been on Shellie and it appears anyone who may have led GZ down the proverbial path of his own destruction gets a pass as long as it evades the full truth they are afraid of. Killing someone even in self defense is no fairytale. As I said back on Dmans site in April, and hopefully I as a supporter can be the example……Jordan, no one speaks for a supporter but that single supporter. Nothing stops you from contacting the defense and asking them to provide you with what was promised from your donation even if it concerns no other. These people are everyday people. Inside or outside. Mark is the man of the law. Ask him.

        • A second amendment right as well as self defense these days is one which is independent. I will not support anyone attempting to screw the system if I stand by that individual right. I could and would have drove past TM that night. Even if he was looking in Taffes window. Taffe has a right to own a gun (maybe). So does everyone else in that neighborhood(maybe). Could GZ sue those who should have afforded him peace and comfort? Maybe. Sucks to be GZ to have to learn who are your friends. But he too was more focused on media in the early days. So, those who knew him were as well.
          MOM took the brunt. Some who truly are so fortunate to have such an atty. to defend them may not in the future if the stakes are this high. For one both sides put confidence in the judiciall system through the media, TV, and social media. Look at the Alexander case. The Hernadez case compared. All parties convicted or an attempt to under Corey. A career politician. SD did not focus on any of it. No one her focused on it. It is yap yap. Put your money where your mouth is. My second amendment right at this point is an individual right. One where I need to create a pay pal account to defend it! Many here do not even exert that right. So unless yall support the NRA, get off the porch. The big dogs are not lying down.

        • Danny, if your speaking of the correspondence above with ref to the DOJ, it was Robert Zimmerman SR Daddy, not JR. I say this as I first read it incorrectly and then when reread it realized it was from SR.

  19. GZ/SZ/MOM were being sued by the security company, I read that MOM was to be deposed awhile back, has anything else materialized or did I miss something or was it resolved?

    I read when the security company filed suit, that MOM/SZ/GZ didn’t have a signed contract w/the security company, I can’t remember where I read it, but, imo, it would be surprising if MOM broke a contract he signed knowing he could be sued, doesn’t sound like him..

    • It is just another one of those unanswered questions. I am just now getting a sense that O’Mara is really unhappy with George. I cannot pinpoint that but something is not right. Is he or West or both going to be there for the Sanctions hearing? Have you seen anything about that, art?

      • jordan2222 – I am as perplexed as you are with all the loose ends that need to be resolved & the lack of information available.. I would be terribly disappointed if West were not at the sanction hearing, I bet he will be, he was outspoken about the lying BDLR. It would seem, imo, IANAL, but wouldn’t the “sanction hearing/motion” need to be put on Judge N’s docket? The MOTION on the “sanctions” was filed so long ago, I assume she will hear it since the Motion is pertaining to the Criminal Trial.

        Could the Defense possibly be waiting to see if anything else is unearthed in Corey’s office since there is supposed to be an investigator in the other wrongful termination of the young lady, can’t remember her name? Isn’t Kruidibos’ case also being investigated, seems parts of his lawsuit against Corey encompass part of the “sanction motion for the defense.” It’s complicated!

        It is possible as you suggest that MOM is unhappy w/GZ, it seemed imo, it started when his office released the criticism of GZ after the Gun Factory visit, I was surprised of the public criticism instead of MOM directly speaking w/GZ, but it seemed MOM’s office wanted to go on record w/their statement. IDK.

        • I have e-mailed the media contact for the Zimmerman case at the 18th Circuit Court to see if she can answer if the Sanctions Hearings have been scheduled, I will let everyone know what she says.

          You bring a good point the sanctions hearings could impact the lawsuit against Corey, which may be interfering with their disposition. If the prosecution is found not guilty of any transgression by Judge Nelson, that could affect the outcome of the wrongful termination against Corey and vice versa.

          IMO, MOM is upset with GZ because he was probably told to lay low until the other issues are settled, especially with the uproar going on right after the trial. Instead he was photographed at the gun factory, stop several times by LE, the issues with Shellie, etc. I know if he was my client it would be exasperating though considering everything it should be expected that issues would arise.

          • borricuafudd – thanks for pursuing information for us on the sanctions, but what a mess. Kruid.’s wrongful termination will reap a lot of information for MOM it would seem since depositions could be shared w/MOM by White when he does BDLR’s/Corey’s depos. The more I think about it, this may be what is bogging things down, but in a positive way. ANYTHING learned by Kruid./White, can possibly benefit MOM/West’s Sanction Motions.

            • Yes, so the delay may be tactical on MOM’s part, there is also the issue that dockets are done months in advance, and trials do take precedence, but I will know better once I hear from the court.

              • Could be all true you guys. Thanks for checking it out bori! I had that discussion about depos because of the firing. I also been awaiting if there was news on an internal investigation. Nothing yet. Only a civilian indictment but that group is loopey!

          • Keep us informed, please, but you are correct. George has been behaving badly. When I think about his behavior BEFORE he was arrested, he does not not appear to be a very bright guy. Not being disrespectful, but I am damn sure I would have never talked to LE without an attorney present and he did that multiple times. Sorry but that is just plain stupid and maybe even arrogant. I could now go back to the beginning when he got out his vehicle, but will stay put on that for now. He has now given me pause for reflection and reconsideration of his actions. That is the unfortunate consequence of his current MO. Shut up George before you lose credibility with those who so faithfully supported you.

            • GZ’s actions are not so out of normal when all things are considered. People that survive life threatening situations are prone to act more rashly or impetuously for a period of time before returning to normal. GZ was in a life of death situation as a conviction would have effectively ended his life.

            • There is no doubt GZ has trauma. I do hope he is seeking or is getting some type of professional help. It would allow him to discuss his experiences in a confidential manner and cope much better. I am conflicted but forgiving of his bad choices being that it could affect the outcome of his pending cases and I am sure he was counseled on the need to lay low. It appears for some time he was not following the advice of professionals and even stopped therapy. But I too understand that he may have needed some reflection on many different things. It was not the smartest thing to do. But it is done and over with now. If he gets back on track despite the personal issues he is facing he can most importantly begin to heal and move forward. God knows he still has some issues to face but if GZ puts his trust in his faith more then others, he will become a wiser man through all of this.

        • I think or would think Don West would be a part of the case as on the monetary part (was rewatching sanction hearings last night) Remb West said his fee was $350 and Omara $400, and West smirked and said (from witness stand) that he still didn’t understand that. That was what the sanctions first started out then after BK came out, Omara asked the court for Judicial Inquiry (I think that’s what he called it, may have been wrong phrase). Since the Sanctions was halted on if I remb correctly June 6 or about then jury selection started on the 10th and went thru July 13. So I sure there was a lot of work to do, especially with BK coming forward and his suit. I think it probably would help this case a lot.

          You said the motion WAS filed., did I read correctly? I know a reported tweeted around Aug 24 or about that Omara said would file motion in 4 to 6 weeks, which should be anytime…

          • mimi – I am thinking MOM/West filed the MOTION for sanctions in which they had Kruid. on the stand, that was for Sanctions I thought but Judge N cut it off & said they would be heard after the trial. West/MOM too wanted to put BDLR on the witness stand to answer questions for the Brady Material & he refused. I remember the hearing the way you have stated it. Are there going to be me more MOTIONS for Sanctions or are these the same “sanctions?” I wasn’t referring to anything new MOM has filed since the old MOTION for sanctions hasn’t been resolved to the best of my knowledge, Judge N. said “after the trial” & we’ve heard nothing. , LOL, I too worry I will miss something.

            • LOL I got to watching those hearing last night whew April 30 May 28 and June 6 If I remb correctly. On May 28 was when Omara sprung the BK part on them. And it was sched for June 6 along with the Frye hearing. When Judge N asked Omara if he had any other witnesses and he said BDLR and BDLR flipped and said he wasn’t going to Judge Nelson started in with the “we have set aside this time for Frye Hearings and its alm 2 pm” gave them 10 min I think to get ready for Frye and told them they could continue this post trial.

        • IIRC, MOM indicated later that he was revising the motion for the sanctions. I do not know what else he wanted to include.

          Mike McDaniel’s latest update about what Corey is facing on at least two fronts, gives me a clue about the timing of the sanction hearing insofar as to WHEN he will proceed. I cannot predict when would be the best time, and I am puzzled as to how he gets to choose the date but that is the way it appears to me.

          If the Bar follows through after the Kruidibos suit is settled, Corey is toast, even before any sanctions hearing. That is only my opinion. Unless Scott or Bondi intervene, she will have to face her fate in a court of law.

          None of us know anything about the current interactions between George and MOM. I expressed my view from afar, simply as an observer.

          Too bad that this case has such a “sour” ending.

  20. PREV TWEETS But could explain also some of the delay, which really may not be delay We just want it to hurry up lol

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