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sourcesRecently, it came to my attention that an email that got shared with me on Feb. 22, 2013 may be a fake. The email, dated Feb. 20th, was sent to me by Sundance and two other people were copied as well. No attempt to get my agreement to keep its contents private was initiated before sending it to me.  In addition to shining light on this email, Sundance also shared the email addresses of two other contributors at the treehouse and they got access to my address.

This action caused me to question Sundance’s judgement. Of all the contributors on the site, why would he choose to share a sensitive email with me who had just reminded the blog, I had mistakenly made another email, sent by the defense, public.

This action told me that Sundance was careless with people’s information who take him into their confidence.  Sundance told me in August, he did have the sender’s permission to share it but he didn’t reveal that to me in February and the sender writes to him, “please keep this private”.  What was I to think?  Even emailing the treehouse, at least 8 people have access to the information and then whoever they decide to share it with reads it and email addresses could inadvertently be shared, as happened in this case.

With the stakes being so high to George Zimmerman, I worried about those close to George, sharing information with the treehouse and how this might negatively affect him.

Sundance did take care to redact the sender’s identity in the email. So I have no idea who the sender is. Given the information that could be read, I suspected the email was from Ken/Scott – George Zimmerman’s brother-in-law who helped him set up his donation site. The writer refers to Robert Sr. as “dad”.

I was banned from posting at the treehouse the day after I got this email (for a post unrelated) so I couldn’t post my worries there and even if I could I’m not sure they would have allowed my concerns to be posted. I did post a warning about emails being shared at the treehouse on facebook and I emailed the defense to make sure they saw it so George and the team could alert family and friends to what could happen.

Sundance brought up that email here in August 2013 and suggested that Ken was mad at me for posting some of its contents. Two things jumped out at me. As I’ve said, back in February I suspected Ken wrote it and learning from Sundance in August that Ken was mad at me about the email seemed to confirm to me he did indeed write it. Second, I hadn’t posted its contents anywhere so I chalked it up to Ken and Sundance being wrong on that. Sundance says he can’t remember the contents of the email anymore so he couldn’t tell me what I was suspected to have shared.

When I receive a private email that says don’t discuss this or share this, it’s only for your information so you can influence the other readers, I’m immediately thinking this is garbage to me.

If I can’t vet the sender and test its authenticity, it’s essentially worthless. I read what it said, seen lots of questions that I couldn’t get answers to and largely ignored it except the worry of the fact it got shared at all without even first getting my commitment to keep it to myself. It was a very bad judgement call on Sundance’s part, imo.

Now we have learned that Ken posts on the blogs as letsbefairtogz and he, in reading the conversation between Sundance and I wondered, as I’m sure every family member who sent an email to the treehouse wondered, was it my email that got shared?

I’m told someone else who got copied on this email, sent the email to Ken so he could view it. Ken posted on our blog, he is not the author after all. In fact, he’s certain no member of the family wrote it.  How is that possible when the writer refers to Robert Sr. as “dad”?

That got me to thinking, if the email is a total fake. If this wasn’t written by a family member, it likely is a fake. I make no judgements on who the author really is. Could be Sundance drafted it up, could be a nutcase wrote it and sent it to the treehouse, could be it is from a family member who doesn’t want to admit they wrote it. Could be a close friend of George’s wrote it. Too many unknowns.

So just knowing that about the email, how much weight or value do YOU give the contents? I say very little. Near as I can tell, Sundance gave it a lot of weight and again I question that judgement.

It occurred to me that others besides Ken might be wondering if it was their email that got shared. So yesterday before leaving for a sick leave hiatus for a few days, I posted something about its content. If you didn’t have that content in your emails to the treehouse, you can rest assured it wasn’t your email that got shared.

Did Sundance get tricked into thinking he was communicating with Ken? Have I been tricked into thinking I’m communicating with Ken? Who wrote that email and is it authentic?

Here is a screen-shot from the actual email giving information that may help us answer these questions.

The redaction was made by Sundance before forwarding. Did the defense ask the friends and family to sign something forbidding them from talking about George ever? Clearly, Sundance thought so.

It appears to me that whoever wrote this email, continued to fill Sundance’s head. About a month later, Sundance posted yet another rant thread on Mark O’Mara being controlling and silencing the family. He states though, his information is first-hand, not second-hand information. But as you will see, his first-hand source (Robert Sr) tries telling him he’s got it wrong.  It is this post where he labelled the Zimmerman family “comfortably clueless”


He goes on to say those who won’t accept his opinion of O’Mara as fact are just too afraid to face the truth.

This is so over-the-top and out of line with the reality that the Zimmerman family is aware of both Shellie and George had a parent actually post one of their few online posts. Rebelious Angel is Mikki Dean (Shellie’s Mom) and she responds to one commenter G8rmom7 who totally agrees with Sundance’s post that the family don’t want to save themselves. Mikki’s reponse is here

Robert Sr. felt compelled to respond as well on the same thread in one of his very rare online moments:


Read entire comment here:

Sundance has the audacity to tell Mr. Zimmerman no, Mark O’Mara silenced you


Mr. Zimmerman tries to tell Sundance that is just not accurate.
Read full post here: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/03/25/moving-forward-on-the-zimmerman-case-research-understanding-objectivity/#comment-354921

When Sundance hears this, he thinks Mr. Zimmerman is a fake.
Read entire comment here: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/03/25/moving-forward-on-the-zimmerman-case-research-understanding-objectivity/#comment-354934

You can read down the rest of the conversation yourself. But suffice to say, Mr. Zimmerman agreed that while they were asked not to talk publicly about the case, they were under no obligation to do so. If they did choose to speak out, they did so at their own risk to themselves and George.

It could be that an imposter has been filling Sundance’s head with a bunch of garbage given the feedback I’m receiving from the Zimmerman family about this leaked email. Is it even legal to hold anyone under contract to never post about a situation on a blog? It could be that someone wanted to tell Sundance what he wanted to hear or perhaps Sundance drafted it up from what he believed his independent research was telling him. The family has had a chance to see the email and deny any of them wrote it. One member defined it as a crazy rant.

Regardless, this is one very good example why Sundance should not have let the emailer fill his head with information that was to be acted upon on the threads but due to the emailer wanting to stay private, could not be properly vetted.

One thing of import to note, not one family member emailed me freaked out about what got shared. Not in February and not in August. Ken did ask about it online when he saw his name mention in relation to it. Near as I can tell Ken and Sundance’s emails likely were about the Osterman book back in August 2012. The defense never asked me who was talking, just simply said thanks for getting the heads up on facebook. This tells me they all were supporting George, just like they were ASKED to do. Very good on all of them.


171 thoughts on “Sources

  1. I just have to laugh because I did share some info from a source I will not reveal that was not this far fetched, true and actually very accurate and my head was chewed off. All this time people believe SD and the guy is somehow still savior to some. Lol. I toldaso!

  2. From last thread, and on topic here 🙂 (written before this post where Nettles is saying basically what I am, that who knows whom was tricked…

    Nettles, bless your sweet Canadian heart. I just wanted to point out a couple of assumptions. 1 – just because someone says they did or didn’t write an email, doesn’t mean it’s the truth. I’m not accusing anyone of anything, just pointing out the fact that it’s just words on a page, just as someone using a screen name and saying they are involved with the families is just words on a page. 2 – SDC may not have vetted that email because it lined up with his bias, as you said, or perhaps it was the other way around – maybe it was written to be that way specifically. Can a piece of paper be a sockpuppet? lol

    And I’m remembering when SDC said he went to FL and everyone he interviewed disparaged MOM. It seemed odd that such a well respected attorney had no one who liked him. It was against common sense. Many times pharmaceutical companies commission many studies, but only publish the ones they like. So we hear of this great study saying drug X helps problem Z – but maybe in reality, they commissioned 10 studies, and 9 studies said the drug had no effect, but we don’t hear that. You probably get my drift… and of course, this also boils down to just words on a page, too. ie, what do we KNOW is true, and what have we been TOLD is true…

    So maybe SDC got screwed believing who wrote a letter, or maybe we got screwed by believing anyone wrote the letter in the first place. Who knows? I’m not saying I have firm beliefs one way or the other, just that there is not usually incontravertible proof in this format….

    • But it makes NO sense what so ever ANYONE would believe MOM had anyone sign confidentiality agreements for life! You have to be a horses ass to believe that!

        • Matter of fact, that “sign a confidentiality agreement for life” demanded by MOM fits right in there with the SDC’s “MOM is so controlling” narrative <—- darn! another "coincidence"!!!

          • Omara at one time IIRC stated he was going to write a book. LMBO, now HE MIGHT have had someone sign paperwork for something like THAT, if he were going to mention them in his book …. Just a thought… tho I do doubt this email being real… at this point anyway

    • I’m not good as Nettles and some others are about timelines, etc…. but I remember SDC always getting grief (by those who would then be banned and ended up here lol) about not having proof of his definitive assertions. Now I’m thinking about how this letter appeared, as in, here’s proof the family hates MOM. I don’t know how I’ll feel tomorrow, but at this moment I’m leaning towards manipulation. That for whatever personal reason, SDC began to hate MOM, and approached the family to convince them of that, too. Maybe he wrote the letter himself to quiet the blog doubters. I’m doubting the trip to Florida in which everyone agreed with SDC that MOM is basically evil incarnate.

      I mean, every where he looks, everyone and everything agrees with his hate of MOM. It’s all just feeling too convenient…. as in manufactured… I have had questions about x, y, and z with his stories, but right now I’m looking at the whole picture….. and I’m wondering if it all boils down to his hate of MOM and everything else was just so many stories to continue his narrative… I don’t know how I’ll feel tomorrow or the next day, but right now I’m just doubting it all.

      • Well one thing for sure, according to SD himself. IF They were a Dem, he had/has no use for them, sooo that would very well limit his sources I would think by at least by some measure. Maybe it was some ticked off person who was overworked at the courthouse, having a bad day and vented to SD. From reading online, Omara seems pretty well respected,

        Mark O’Mara is an American criminal defense lawyer and sole practitioner of the O’Mara Law Group in Orlando, Florida. O’Mara is a 1979 graduate of the University of Central Florida and received his law degree from the Florida State University College of Law in 1982. O’Mara was an Assistant State Attorney with the Seminole County State Attorney Office from 1982 to 1984. He served as president of the Seminole County Bar Association in 2000.

        en.wikipedia.org · Text under CC-BY-SA license

        • Just another thought. That SD has so much vile feelings IMHO of Omara, and after I posted the above comment made me remember … SD confirmed to Nettles that he had prev legal issues due to some kind of financial issues regarding $ from his late wife. SD does live in Florida, tho I don’t know where *NOR CARE* But, wonder if possible that SD had dealings with Omara or to a certain extent when Omara was a ASA? May be far fetched, but whatever the reason, SD doesn’t like him and for Omara to make the comments in his opening statements, in the biggest case of his career about his pinky ring, directed directly at SD… I am curious lol …

          • Hmmmmm Mimi interesting………..

            yeah, it always seems weird to me when someone so ultra religious (god made us free) would hold SO TIGHT to human constructed social rules (oops social rules mean that now we’re not “free”, we have to “follow the “pack”!!) I had never heard the rule that men don’t wear pinky rings, maybe it’s a “man pack” thing – but for heaven’s sake, whatever it is, its “proper use” is a social construct. Big whoop. People should be free to wear what makes them happy. People have their own reasons for wearing jewelry and where. But someone like SDC can just override the person’s own reasons, and insist his own are the truth?

            So he can be so religious and patriotic and believe that we are free, then jump head first into the social construct world and decree that MOM is a deviate from that social construct world. Which is it? Does he think MOM is free to make choices, or do those choices have to come with a socially constructed basis for a judgement? I certainly hope he doesn’t think that god decreed that men can’t wear pinkie rings lol

  3. I am going to cut SD a break! The redacted relationship and need to sign a confidentiality paper was because the sender was GZs cousins, aunts, brother in laws, great uncles, great great grandfathers grandson who calls RZsr. “Dad.”

    • At one time someone asked JTFP a question at the CTH, don’t remember what it was but, JTFP replied that the family members were not allowed to talk with each other because they were all potential witnesses at trial. That makes perfect sense to me as it would be more than frowned upon by the court to appear that they were all in collusion. The Scheme team members were in fact all in collusion. They always made sure that they were reading from the same page of talking points, for example, George should never have gotten out of da ca.

      Once the trial ended, they no longer are potential witnesses. They are free to speak as they choose which has been evidenced by Shellie saying that she now questions George’s actions on the night of the crime etc. If anyone was bound by any contract to remain silent I would imagine George’s wife would be at the top of the list. The whole argument about the family members being bound to silence is bogus.

      I’m not sure why there are still any questions as to why SD hates O’Mara so much, and has worked to undermine him and his reputation. SD has spelled it out clearly on these pages more than once. O’Mara is a Democrat and therefore evil incarnate. Oh, and, he is part of the Society of the Manicure. LOL

      • minpin06 –

        Can you shed any light on the following that Sundance wrote earlier this morning. Do you have any idea what Sundance means here?

        ““The actual email, at the heart of all this silliness, was written by minpin06′s biggest GZ fan. Who was, according to their presentation, a *close* (daily contact) friend of GZ, who used to post at TCTH.”


  4. ‘…I had to sign some sort of life long contract promising to never say anything about George…’

    What a bunch of absolute crap… There’s the first clue that this e-mail is a total fraud. Unreal.

  5. It sounds like SD used cc when he should have used bcc, and that’s how “…Sundance also shared the email addresses of two other contributors at the treehouse and they got access to my address.” happened.

  6. For me, I don’t have so much interest in these little dribbles coming out from behind the scenes. For one, we don’t know if they’re real or created. For another thing, it’s sporadic and disorganized. I would feel more comfortable if one day the family sat down for an interview and discussed what happened – not that I’m saying they ever have to do that, just that it would take that for me, I think, to feel like I’ve “got” the story. Right now, these little dribbles out, and the apparent arguing – well, it’s too soap opera-y for me, and I have no definitive sense that I’m getting something solid. I guess I would just rather wait to hear a final, family agreed on interview in which it all comes out. This soap opera-y stuff just doesn’t feel solid. And actually, I’m not sure I personally have a need to know any of this “past” stuff – at the time it may have been helpful, to help gauge how the cause may work out. But now it’s over, and the case is won. So I guess one part of me feels this stuff is now-irrelevant water under the bridge….? The future filings and hopefully firing of some people are more in my mind. I hope this made sense, I’m really tired tonight lol

  7. “…but I lost my rights as a citizen because I am George’s _______.”



    Massage therapist?

    Pen pal?

    Former fellow altar boy?

    Dry cleaner?

    Dog groomer?

    Auto mechanic?

    Lamaze partner?

    Yoga instructor?

    Insurance agent?

    Former girlfriend?

    Can we turn this into a contest?

  8. I am recalling the conversation between SD and Nettles when she said she might come down for vacation and invited SD to have lunch together. His response was no, because Nettles was a prog. Though he can talk to her online and communicate by e-mail, sharing a table together while having lunch was verboten. Why do I bring this up, it could explain his dislike for MOM who is admittedly a Prog in SD’s eyes. As he said time after time how can GZ get help from the same people who are trying to railroad him.

    • I know of someone who works in a hospital. She did her internship in that hospital, she started her first (and only) job in that hospital. She was eventually promoted to the lead in that department. She’s middle aged. So there have been very few changes in that department over the decades, even though there have been many changes in the field. But she only knows what she learned way back when. She has exposed herself to nothing new, and when it presents itself, she pushes it away. Therefore, she never grows professionally, never develops her department to be at the level of similar departments in other hospitals. And it all flows from her spending her entire professional life in her original bubble – and also from having a rigid personality.

      I suspect this is similar to SDC. And you know what happens to people who are too rigid, who can’t be flexible enough to assimilate new information, who can’t adjust things taking new developments into account, who maintain their rigidity by keeping everything else out of the bubble? Rigid things crack.

      • If someone was demanding you put your head in a guillotine how “rigid” would you be in opposition?

        Some things are just antithetical to life and values. Toward those things I am EXTREMELY RIGID in opposition. I will NEVER compromise. Nor will I ever let circumstances dictate my standards.

        Rigid ? – Yes,… well, actually, HELL YES !! I am guilty.

            • Can you clarify “crap”?

              Very telling yall would be proud to be plugged by a website who evolved from a Hollywood gossip site to what it is today, a website that spreads computer viruses and plugs sites like TCTH.

              What no SUNLIGHT? No TRUTH? You walk all the way from the Treehouse to come to our cozy lil place to say Drudge plugged you (i mean really ….look @ who you have posting there now)! Race baiters. Have fun with the plug.

    • Yes, I readily admit. Yes, I dislike O’Mara because he is a Prog and holds all the prog traits of selfishness, manipulation and lying.

      Yes, I am guilty as charged of that disposition. I’ve also proclaimed as such numerous times.

  9. Jordan, I FOUND WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR!!!! OMG!!! Listen VERY carefully to Don West words…. KNOWING what we know from BK, After hearing this from BDLR is what caused him to seek out legal advise. BUT… the wording of West, one would think he already knew of BK report…hmmm First 6 min of this day messed up on all stream. Go to right at 6 min LISTEN TO BDLR LIE!!!!

  10. Re: the email, who said what, when, where, how, to who, I can honestly say, I am so glad to be completely in the dark with all of this. Don’t hand me a flashlight, I’m enjoying the darkness LOL

  11. [Good grief, I should have known better than to check that ping-back]

    *almost* ALL y’all are obsessed with the most menial of issues. Gee, lemme think, an obsessed -and this at this point “obsession” is an understatement- Nettles, posts a controversial discussion thread, fraught with assumptions and misleading flawed constructs, and then announces she will not be around for a few days.

    LOL….. and y’all fall for it.

    Ever hear the descriptive term for a specific personality trait: “open a door, throw in a grenade, and walk away whistling” ?

    There are people who do that. Why? Because they live through, and for, controversy they create. When they get bored, they *create* issues.

    There are people who actually choose to live life that way you know? Some people shorten the psychology to “Drama Queen” descriptives. Regardless, it’s all based on attention seeking – and in the long term, not stable and when viewed, quite odd.

    I digress…..

    Go back and look at the construct of what’s written up there ^^. You’ll note I never said who wrote the e-mail, and redacted their information at their request. It was not from Ken/Scott, I never said it was from Ken/Scott, I never inferred it was from Ken/Scott.

    It is Nettles who was/is assuming it was written by Ken/Scott, which she readily admits, and then goes into a diatribe about how she now semi-believes she may have jumped to conclusions. Duh !

    Jumping to conclusions, to reconcile preconceptions, appears to be a keen qualification for participation about this stuff.

    Can’t you see how this has become a delirious quest for validation or affirmation, where no such affirmation or validation exists.

    Ms. Nettles is filled with anxiety because the reality of what she wants to believe cannot ever be evidenced. Not because of her incapacity to draw conclusions, but rather because it is simply not correct.

    If the GZ family, or GZ himself, held such vitriolic sentiments toward me, that would support the assumptions, they would affirm to her/y’all. God Lord knows everyone is trying to get that to happen; but that doesn’t happen, because the sentiment doesn’t exist.

    Why doesn’t it exist? Because what I have researched, and written about, is accurate. Including EVERYTHING about O’Mara.

    If what I had written was supposition, guesswork, or flawed – it would be challenged by RZjr, or RZsr. Period.

    They would not be THANKING ME. Duh!

    Within that thread, outlined in this post above, where RZsr feels misinterpreted, or misunderstood, he openly challenged the framework (clearly), but what is not shown (above) is the follow up, beyond the captured screenshots (that advance the flawed construct), which further outlined that RZsr admits the conversation was exactly as I described (use the link).

    Although for public consumption George’s Dad walks back some of the sentiment he held at the time. That *walk back* is totally understandable, given the timing of the discussion against the backdrop of GZ’s weird relationship with MoM ; ….and RZsr. being worried he might have spoken out of place.

    If I ever framed the outline of events erroneously, the same capacity to challenge the construct existed. At all times, on every discussion thread. Period.

    But you never saw the outline of Mark O’Mara challenged did you?

    Why? Because it was an opinion based in facts and research, and… wait for it….. also in hindsight, now 100% accurate as the outcomes are exactly what was predicted.

    THAT is what’s really irking folks like Nettles, and those of similar constitution.

    It’s just and entrenched unwillingness to admit my outline was accurate, and the suppositions/beliefs to the contrary were wrong.

    That’s all this is.

    The actual email, at the heart of all this silliness, was written by minpin06’s biggest GZ fan. Who was, according to their presentation, a *close* (daily contact) friend of GZ, who used to post at TCTH.

    That email, not unlike many hundreds of others rec’d, was written to the CTH as an OUTCOME of a post written to expose the real story.

    It was *not* the basis for my writing, it was emailed to me in response to what I had written *already*. The author was affirming what actual research was outlining.

    The emails did not create the research; the research created the posts; the posts created the emails in response.

    NO @arkansasmimi, I had never met O’Mara prior to the case. NO, I did not seek out detractors, and I have outlined exactly who, with great specificity, I talked to in Orlando during the 3-day weekend in July. People in the Orlando courthouse, in the Orlando legal profession, in Orlando/Sanford Law Enforcement and in MoM’s law firm itself. I shared that previously – at great length.

    Likewise, and of similar methodology, I just spent 2 days in Jacksonville, FL talking to people in/around the Sheriff’s dept(s) and the 4th SAO, digging up more material to expose the rot inside the construct of a seriously corrupt SAO office, and the GZ prosecution team. I will write about that, AFTER, I take possession of the FOIA materials I have paid for and fought to get.

    AND THAT’S WHAT’S ANNOYING….. instead of putting some of this extensive energy folks like y’all have into doing something constructive to expose that rot, or evaluate methods or discussions for how to bring it out…. You guys are stuck on some ridiculous “lets all hate and talk about Sundance” schtick. Based on a need to prove my *previous* framework wrong.

    To what end exactly? Why?

    How is any of this going to provide any value to anyone?

    There will never be anything to substantiate the discussion post as presented, because it doesn’t exist.

    I didn’t make stuff up. I never undermined the GZ legal case. GZ doesn’t hate me. GZ’s family doesn’t think I did any harm. The exact opposite exists, because the exact opposite is the truth. You’ve even read that. But that’s just not good enough…..

    …… so this ridiculous fixation continues.

    {{ SMH }}

    • Sundance, not sure if you have read on prev thread of Nettles finding out this week if her cancer has returned for the 5th time. She is a 4 time cancer of the mouth Survivor in the past 21 years. She alerted us I think over a week ago that she would be having test this week. I truly hope that this was an oversight and not making blatant hurtful remarks about her stating she would be away for few days.

      If you did read/know and still stated that…I truly will pray for you, because I would have thought you were better human being than that. Still cant believe your stance on not associating with someone because of their political view. My GOD teaches to love one another… Hopefully your just confused on that point . 🙂 if not, Man OH Man you might miss out on some AWESOME people being close minded.

      • I did not know that about the cancer. I’ll say a prayer for her. I lost my wife to cancer…. it’s a horrible disease. My sympathy to her and her family. After writing a post like this, she needs all the Karmic and Christian prayers of forgiveness that everyone can send her way.

        The point still stands about throwing a grenade.

        Oh, … and BTW I’m having a little difficulty reading your expressions of Christian “love”. Then again, I’m prolly not ‘another’. It appears many of us don’t live up to your standards.

        • Nope you are “another” as far as I am concerned. We are to Love one another. Grouping someone into a category by political views and therefore more or less saying they aren’t worthy of your presence it just a little much for me to take. Especially after I really looked up to you. Seems it goes against a lot of things you posted about. Seems kinda like being a bully, and I just don’t get that. No need to be petty saying many don’t live up to my standards. My standards matter to me, and evidently many don’t live up to yours.

          I don’t understand why you are posting your back stories here, on a blog where you banned the owner from your blog, and yet didn’t post it at your blog. I still cant shake the feeling of being deceived by some of your actions hindsight.

          Your a great researcher SD, just hate seeing you get caught up in the little mind games and riddles.

      • Mimi, I want to relay a story about a talk radio conversation that I heard a few months ago. You know there has been a push by some on the right, mainly the far right, that drugs should be made legal, and prostitution also. The radio host threw out the question to call in and let him know if you agreed with that position or not. A young woman called in to say that yes absolutely, everything should be legal. Even, meth, yes, heroine, yes, pcp, yes, all of them she agreed. The host asked her if she believed the majority of people could or would be responsible enough not to wind up laying in a gutter from an overdose. Her reply was that she would just step over the person and go on her way. If someone wanted to call the ambulance let someone else do it. She said that if the person didn’t have his own money to pay for the necessary medical treatment, then jut let them die if they were that stupid. Yes, there are some that are that rigid.

        “she needs all the Karmic and Christian prayers of forgiveness that everyone can send her way.”

        I hope I am reading that incorrectly but, is SD actually implying that it was Nettles Karma that she got cancer because she is a prog., and his prayers will be for her forgiveness because of her political beliefs? If I am reading that correctly, that is about as low as anyone can get. It’s lower than a snake’s belly. I’ve known many conservatives who have died from cancer.

        • Minpin, Its the way I took it and it really made me mad. I had a busy day today and that ignorant comment made me wonder about Nettles all day. Just getting home and chance to catch up and then get a lil rest. SMH this person SD, he is truly piece of work, IN HIS OWN MIND!

    • SDC- What you complain Nettles does is exactly what you do. You put some “bread crumbs” and lead people to your determine destination and if it turns out it was wrong, you say I never said, you made that assumption. What I am trying hard to understand is why you care, if Nettles or anyone else thinks that MOM is the greatest and that GZ is fortunate to have had him to represent him. Is it an ideological issue with you, or just that some of your “predictions” did not pan out? Let Nettles do her thing, from what I have found out, she is willing to admit when she is wrong, but I am questioning are you?

      • Sure I am, I think I even did it once, maybe, can’t quite remember.., but I think I thought about it, maybe not 😉

        I could care less any more about O’Mara – The Trial’s over. I wrote a post about that… “Lettitgo”… If GZ sticks with him now, it matters not to me. That’s a reflection of GZ’s stupidity, not mine, yours’ or anyone else’s. But he knows that – and it appears he’s taken distance, and learned his lesson(s).

        Nor do I care if Nettles thinks MoM is Captain Legal McDreamy…. Matters not. I’m only responding to her, and anyone elses, misrepresentations of me, my position, and the facts as they exist. Just because you don’t like the truth, does not mean it doesn’t exist.

        The construct of this “sources” post is pure hocus-pocus gobbledygook and nonsense. Which would not matter to me, were it not for Nettles need to “use me” as the construct of her post, and my research, and my outlines. See diff ? How many blogs do you see which are assembled around such a central point? What exactly is the purpose of this blog? Personally, I think y’all are off the rails, and Nettles is obsessed with me because, like a typical prog, she can’t stand being wrong.

        Nettles is *behaving as* the female version of Lee Stranahan. [Did you see that LS engagement thread at TCTH ?] Same/Same

        Question for you,…. How many times have you read upon these pages the exact phrase: “George Zimmerman likes Mark O’Mara” or “George Zimmerman is confident in Mark O’Mara”.

        How can you, or anyone, know this? AND yet you express it with such absolute certainty ? why?

        • Question for you,…. How many times have you read upon these pages the exact phrase: “George Zimmerman likes Mark O’Mara” or “George Zimmerman is confident in Mark O’Mara”.

          There you go again, using lack of something as proof of something else, and if he does that still does not mean that MOM did anything untoward.

          If things are frames from your information is because it was your information that was used to make allegations or conclusions, nobody else was saying those things but you.

          The only that speaks with absolute is you, that is when you actually state a position, since most of the time you leave yourself and out, or speak a vague manner.

          My interest in the case started because my sister lives in Sanford, in fact she moved from the complex next to GZ’s one month before TM was shot, though I did not know it at the time, I thought it was a friend of my nephews that had gotten shot. She is also a paralegal in Orlando which is where I got my information about the case and what was going on the ground there. BTW she is not a GZ supporter, she still feels that GZ could have avoided the situation.

          Anyhow, that is neither here or there because my interest in the case changed to try to get GZ acquitted and to exposing the abuse of power, which is still my goal. If MOM was responsible for gagging the family, I say UH RAH for him because that is exactly what his detractors wanted, loose lips.

          • Bori my interest was a close friend of mine live very near Sanford and text me the next day. And then so many things changed by the hour and we have followed the case from the beginning. Sadly it could be any one of use this happened to and my hope is that some pay for the damages done. It makes me think of what happened to Richard Jewel.. its all just wrong. Abuse of power from all directions.

          • LOL… I’m not the one using lack of something as proof of anything. YOU ARE.

            You are saying the lack of GZ to kick MoM to the Curb was proof of his support for him. D’oh. {{{head desk}}}

            I’m saying my position is at least based on facts of having physically, personally, talked to RZsr, RZjr, Gladys, and spending time actually on the ground in Orlando talking to and interviewing people with direct contact with Mark O’Mara and the judiciary within which he works. That’s not ‘nothing’, that’s actually ‘something’. See the diff?

            Again, I ASK – what do you have to support your position? (other than abject speculation and guessing)

            • You see SD, you visited and maybe talked to a few people, my sister lives there and works in a law office in Orlando. He ex, attend the same Baptist Churches that were calling for the boycotts and demonstrations. My nephews lived right next door to GZ before they moved to a Condo blocks from the Courthouse. They had attended the same school that Chad is attending. I think I was getting a pretty clear picture. But, it does not matter as I was not making any proclamations about anyone on the Defense team, I believe that was you. All I did was point out to you, that if you frame an issue a certain way, be ready for some push back, or maybe you are just trying to frame the issue, as you did in your site?

              BTW, check your archives I am not a MOM cheerleader, I had my own criticism of how MOM dealt with the case and have stated them, including the kid treatment towards the family, which has allowed them to play the victim. My criticism were clear and easily check out, out of MOM’s mouth and actions. What you were saying about MOM bordered on criminal if not criminal but you have no proof, rumors, hearsay and perhaps a few jealous attorneys? It does not matter to me, it does to Nettles and it is her site.

              • *nice dodge*

                Push back all you, or anyone else, want. (that’s not what this is) But you should have *something* to back up a counter position, or else all you have is supposition. Which is the entire construct of this “sources” thread.

                I’m the person telling Nettles to contact George Zimmerman, or his immediate family, to ask them questions. Seek and publish what she finds. IMHO there’s nothing antithetical to my position even remotely possible from any response. I already know the answers to such questions; It’s nettles and many here who refuse to consider them [just look at this *sources* post as one example].

                I don’t know why Nettles just didn’t post that entire email, but I have a suspicion she would not want all of you to read it because it’s foundationally supportive of my position, and counter to her supposition. Heck, that’s why I sent it to them (Nettles, DMan, Chip) for review…. so they’d have a greater understanding – not less.

                So challenge her to post the entire email chain. It matters not. It does not represent risk to me, only her. She’s the one trying to make mountains out of non-existent molehills just to support her flawed conclusions. Not me.

                You’ll note on the Treehouse I post the entire construct of every email chain, that counters my conclusion, in that regard. (full text – no manipulative edits – no screenshots) Ryan Julison, and Lee Stranahan come readily to mind as examples.

                • Here is your problem, you are making assumptions again, and forgetting that other people might have their own sources of information. Sources that you would never consider as they are on the “other side”.

                  What do you know about Sanford? Why was this case picked over others? There were IIRC 3 other shootings under similar circumstances that same week, but Sanford was picked. I have no real interest in this, as it will not yield anything useful. But if I can get confirmation that this case was picked, as it was…

                  You this is nothing, I did try to verify what you said about MOM in case GZ was railroaded, but I could not but I did get other information about the local players and that is what is important to me. Not your claims, true or not. You keep replying as if you have to convince me, of something or other and I really don’t care.

                  I responded to you because I find it ironic that you keep visiting a site from the person you banned on your site to express your opinion while you denied her that opportunity there. Make of that what you will.

              • I doubt that anyone here could say that they were completely satisfied with the way MOM handled the case. For a while I kept a list of those things, and will tell you that SD was the source of many of them AFTER I had verified what he said. My purpose was to later discuss these things so I could resolve them to MY satisfaction. The list was lengthy and I still have issues with things he does or does NOT do. Much of that, however, is a result of lack of information. Keep in mind that MOM had said publicly that he did not want to expose information as it became available. IOW, he does NOT agree with our Sunshine laws. Didn’t he once say that he wanted discovery to be “slow rolled?” That is in direct conflict of his complaints about BLDR not releasing discovery “on time.” Actually, there was never an agreement that I ever saw that explained WHEN discovery should be released. For certain, the Florida Rules of Discovery were totally ignored. TOTALLY. Look it up and you will see my view and that position is that there must have been a verbal agreement approved by the judge to disregard those rules. Do you see any clear cut exceptions?

                I will not go into further detail about my specific “disagreements” regarding the way he handled the case, but I acknowledge that SD initiated my interest to scrutinize very closely what MOM did or did not do. IOW, I did NOT take for granted that MOM did every single thing possible with the SOLE interest of freeing George. IMO, he always had other things in mind which I trust were SECONDARY to the primary purpose but freeing George was essential to accomplish his secondary goals.

                Was that wrong? Was he taking unnecessary risks? I do not know, for certain, but that appears to be the foundation for the position that SD took. I seriously doubt that a successful attorney would take this case pro bono without having a secondary motive that would consequently benefit him/her.

                O’Mara and West were successful in freeing George. That is what matters the most. How MOM will achieve his secondary goal is moot to me. Both are worthy of BACK PAY.

                • I agree the case has left many unsatisfied, let me try to address some of those as I see them.
                  I can understand both wanting to control the information that is being released and the content as do many other attorneys, just think how some of the information was incorrectly framed by the Scheme Team and the Media which caused many to be surprised by the verdict.

                  Pretty much all Defense attorneys want to slow roll the prosecution as the more time in between events the better it is for them. That does not mean that the Defense wants the discovery to be slow rolled, on the contrary they want that as soon as possible, so it is easy to confuse both but they are not in conflict. As for the verbal agreement IIRC the problem was that the prosecution took what was agreed to early as a one-time act and just did it throughout. Yes, discovery rules were broken but the Lester allowed it at the behest of the Defense once and then Nelson would not enforce the rules afterwards. She is the final arbiter on these things in trial.

                  Your are right some things could have been different, his advocacy early could have been more pronounced but he achieved his goal. He did not pursue the family but that is a tactical move.

                  • Thanks for your reply, bori.

                    You said: That does not mean that the Defense wants the discovery to be slow rolled.

                    I realize that but didn’t MOM say publicly that he wanted some discovery to not be revealed to the public in a “timely” manner as is written in the rules of discovery?

                    AFAIK, all discovery must be made public whenever it is sent to opposing counsel.

                    Yes, I think BLDR abused whatever agreement they made. Although the defense complained later about not getting discovery, how long did it take them to actually file a motion to get it? That is one of the things that really annoyed me and also made me wonder about what MOM was doing. Funny, that I never heard anyone mention that, aside from me, while the case was wide open but maybe I am totally wrong.

                    • Jordan-going on memory here but I think both the prosecution and the defense wanted to tamper the tensions and agreed to examine the discovery before release that was the excuse for the delay they both spoke to Lester who agreed.

                      The ironic thing was that because of the delay when the discovery dumps were done in May 21st, ABC was asking should the charges be dropped?


                      Of course the PayPal issue soon came up and that was quashed forever. Which also created other issues, preparing for the second bail hearing, the motions to recuse the Judge, the Appeal Courts, then a new Judge which I am sure delay the release of information.

                      I think we need to remember what a long curvy road this case took and the many detours.

                    • I guess I missed the Gutman article so thanks for that .

                      YOU: I think we need to remember what a long curvy road this case took and the many detours.

                      There was no valid reason for that, IMO.

                • Jordan,

                  I would add this to what you have written.

                  I looked at MOM’s actions as though I were judging how he was doing his job – i.e., without having knowledge, or claimed knowledge of what was going on behind the scenes.

                  And I took SD’s complaints seriously and stacked them against what my expectations were as to how the defense position should be run. MOM (and West’s) briefs were excellent. The arguments in court were lucid and non-inflammatory.

                  I was prejudiced in one regard towards MOM. I liked his demeanor. I like no bombast. I like that the heat in the legal battle comes from the strength of the arguments in the briefs filed with the court.

                  I, in particular, appreciated his and West’s efforts to deliberately scale down the rhetoric despite repeated provocations from the Crump camp.

                  Having said this, I would have done some things differently, and perhaps, not too wisely at that. I think that more could have been done on the contra-case; i.e., the whole unexplored (for the most part) of Trayvon’s background which is what led to him being in Sanford that fateful evening.

                  But each lawyer has his/her own way of looking at the case. Each approach has positives and negatives. The pressure from the prosecution was relentless, and Judge Nelson was not accommodating to the defense.

                  But as you say, Jordan – Mom and West were successful.

            • Wonder if the Zimmerman family knew then what you reflect now how you feel about them, being Progs and all. Seems like you used them for your own agenda and now you speak of them as if they were trash beneath your feet.

              GO HOME Cranky lil boy.

        • SD I think you need a vacation sir. You are totally losing it. Not one thread at the CTH is made without using someone elses research/article or whatever. You link to SOMEONE ELSES articles. So what the heck are you talking about that Nettles need to use you to construct a post? Your research or outline? You are doing to her exactly what Nasty Nat or whomever it was that made that DothProtestMuch blog, IMHO. I personally could care less what Geo thought of Omara. Honest. But IMHO he would be pretty damn stupid to talk crap about the man who along with his legal team didn’t get paid and yet put up with more than we will ever know and helped him to be able to walk the streets free instead of in prison. And for that matter any of Geo family. What anyone else thinks or thought of Omara or heck any of the def team, is just someones opinion, who was not facing 2 degree Murder Charge.

          Its almost laughable how bent out of shape you are about Omara. Umm and why did you get involved in this case?? Serious question. Seeing how Geo is a Dem and such. By the way I am a Republican with Conservative values, and could care less what Geo or Omara believe, doesn’t make my day any better or worse, so why get so bent out of shape lol. NOW if they were doing the racial crap like Chump and company, well different beast all together.

          • …..”Not one thread at the CTH is made without using someone elses research/article or whatever. You link to SOMEONE ELSES articles”…..


            Hmmm. Damn, I missed the other media citations for: the Virginia Pilot beatings, the construction of the Scheme Team outlines, revealing Ryan Julison, the construction of who the people were within the narrative and what their backgrounds were, the Miami-Dade School Police Dept issues, The Lean Drink and fight Clubs, the hundreds of Zimmerman hearings, the trial discovery, proffer hearings with evidence, etc. etc.

            Who else wrote about that?…. I must attribute quickly…..


            I got involved to expose the “scheme” and the “complicit media” construction, that’s why. As I wrote NUMEROUS times, the case was NEVER about George Zimmerman, it was about what George Zimmerman -and the forces aligned to deceive-represented. I never hid that.

            Nor did I ever hide the fact(s) of, or my opinion of, the case being a *political* prosecution, not a legal prosecution.

            It was the politics of the people involved (on both sides), and their deceptions which are part of their politics, and the media who was willing to advance the deception, which drew me to a desire to expose the fraudulent case construct.

            Additionally I repeatedly said it was a blue on blue fight. An Obama Democrat, Zimmerman, and Obama Democrat Scheme Team, which provided the irony within the case. Everything about liberal democrats is based on fraud and hypocrisy. Everything. The Zimmerman case was a prime example of it.

        • You truly are confused on what verifiable fact vs. verifiable opinions.
          I would say you are the topic of discussion most times because of your confusion and the ongoing audacity to label people. Which is not opinion but Judgement. Judgement is not a Christian virtue.
          I take most of what you say with a grain of salt. Because most times your research and feedback are nothing more then value judgements from personal opinion. (value judgement – an assessment that reveals more about the values of the person making the assessment than about the reality of what is assessed!) It is all about you!

          Here is a secret….. I do not care about your relationship with any one Zimmerman. Really. Do not care. I do not care that they offered you money, a steak dinner, a hug, or a million thanks. I do not even care what they think about the legal team. That they contacted you and tree people tell me a lot! The fact that you state you always held this was not about Zimmerman you sure brag alot about your arms length relationship!
          What I do care about is your and your posters lack of respect for the legal process. What came first? The chicken or the egg? You really are no better then the media, politicians, and the scheme team who made this political. It is not my opinion, but fact, that this was a legal case. It was not the media, politicians, or Scheme Team who aquitted GZ. It was due process. It is YOU who needs to reflect on why it was that ” the fight chose the treehouse”.

          Because amoungst the 1,000s of GZ posts, maybe 30 of them are at least partially factually based. The rest is Sundance establishing himself in the blogshere with his personal opinions. Nothing wrong with that but the fact you believe your own opinions to be verifiable is most disturbing.
          If this email is the crux of all the truth and light you shine then I feel most embarrased for your posters. Why do YOU not post the full email if you have been misrepresented?
          Not that I care to read it. If it is filled with anything like the above screen shots I will take a pass. For for those who come here and email you of these threads that you so often must correct such misinformation all of us “progs” have wrong.

          BTW. Here is a link to help you on your way to differentiate your confusion.


    • “I had never met O’Mara prior to the case. NO, I did not seek out detractors, and I have outlined exactly who, with great specificity, I talked to in Orlando during the 3-day weekend in July. People in the Orlando courthouse, in the Orlando legal profession, in Orlando/Sanford Law Enforcement and in MoM’s law firm itself. I shared that previously – at great length.”

      According to my sources, who can include about anyone in Orlando, but I’m not going to tell you who they are. That passes for great specificity? LOL

    • You speak as if EVERYONE here is of the same mindset. Not that it matters, but I do not agree with what everyone says here, nor did i agree with what everyone said at the CTH. The mods at the CTH are the ones who “chased” me away and you damn well know that they had no respect for me whatsoever. We are self moderated here and are free to speak as we please, even off topic, if we are so inclined. We discuss personal issues, even those related to our health. We are a caring community of very different political persuasions. We rarely engage in heated arguments about any subject. Many of us left the CTH for similar reasons. Our bond is respect for each other and no one else decides for us what we can or cannot say.

      I personally liked the many of the views of the mods at CTH and showed respect in the best means available. One of them reached a point at which she refused to acknowledge my very presence and would not even answer a direct question. She said she never forgets yet I have no idea what she means. Is that honesty, Sundance?

      I am writing this because little old sensitive me takes exception to your grouping us ALL into one group that is devoted to criticizing you and the CTH.


      • I agree Jordan. And personally, IF you/anyone ever finds themselves with a person or group who all agree with everyone about everything… IMHO RUN, AND RUN AS FAST AS CAN, because they are liars and the future wont be too bright.

        Also putting everyone in lil groups or mindset, reminds me of cults…. Jim Jones comes to mind…. and we know how that ended … Grown up thing to do if you disagree, is agree to disagree. Doesn’t make you any less of a person. Actually it makes you more of a honest human being. Honest first with oneself.

    • You said: so this ridiculous fixation continues.

      Are not your posts contributing to the “ridiculous fixation?” Do you really think you can change the perception of those who post here? Could anyone here change YOUR perception? Exactly what do want to accomplish, SD? If you clearly state what you want, maybe someone here could find the answers that you seek. If no one knows your goal, then each comment you make may actually reinforce what others here think of you. I do not believe you care much about what others think but you are only worsening the opinions of those who already dislike you. Each of them, at one time, respected you but you are even losing that. As far as I know, everyone here acknowledges that CTH was the first blog that fully supported George’s innocence from the start.

      Would your admin team allow this discussion there at the Tree. Why has no one here ever been banned? Yet we have not even one moderator. To me that speaks loudly about which site commands the respect of its posters and their respect for each other. The Tree clearly has a controlled environment in which many know that they cannot post what they genuinely feel and think without risking the wrath of the mods. They do a great job of keeping their house “clean” as both you and they say. What makes the Tree House CLEAN?

      I know you well enough to realize that you have a mission by posting here and defending your past posts.

      I believe that, first and foremost, we are here to HELP each other, not change others to our way of thinking.

      Just a few thoughts, SD.

  12. Before this thread gets too far down, I hope we all keep Annette/Nettles in our Heartfelt thoughts and if your of the praying kind, I am sure she would appreciate them. She seem to be a strong person, but what she is facing… May she continue to be strong. Thankful she has such a close family and strong support system. That is as helpful and important, and in some cases more important than any medication. Sending my heartfelt hugs and prayers for good results and strength in these coming days and beyond. Big Hugs from Arkansas!!!!! to Canada….

    HEY…. Nettles, I saw on the news that they found Dinosaur bones in Canada within the last few days… Fess up, THATS what your digging into these days huh 🙂 🙂 wink wink http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/dinosaur-tail-fossil-found/2013/10/03/id/529168

  13. Sundance –

    In your explanation above you state:

    “You’ll note I never said who wrote the e-mail, and redacted their information at their request. It was not from Ken/Scott, I never said it was from Ken/Scott, I never inferred it was from Ken/Scott.”


    “The actual email, at the heart of all this silliness, was written by minpin06′s biggest GZ fan. Who was, according to their presentation, a *close* (daily contact) friend of GZ, who used to post at TCTH.”

    Do I understand you correctly that there was no new information (whether accurate or inaccurate) in that email that you forwarded to Nettles, that it was an affirmation to what you had already written?

    What was the name used by minpin06 biggest GZ fan at CTH? Do you know the identity of that individual or the relationship to the GZ extended family?


    • It’s all just a very silly cat and mouse game. SD throws out the mouse, and the cats all run to find out the name of the mouse.

      I have a slight idea of who SD may be referring to, even though I never knew I had a biggest GZ fan. LOL If my guess is correct, no I won’t post the name, I never had the first inkling that the person was a close friend of GZ, nor did I ever think for a minute that they had daily contact with GZ.

      As I said above, I am very uncurious about who wrote this, who sent that, who said this, or who did that. Frankly, I don’t care. Talk about drama queens SD?

    • Who was this?

      “The actual email, at the heart of all this silliness, was written by minpin06′s biggest GZ fan. Who was, according to their presentation, a *close* (daily contact) friend of GZ, who used to post at TCTH.”

        • If I understood SD right, the sender was an admirer of yours minpin06.

          Rick came looking for you at Diwataman’s. Do you recall anyone being a fan of yours prior to you deciding to leave? I recall Rick saying he watched all of that nastiness between you and the admins. and wanted to speak out against the admins. It appears the person posted using another identity prior to Jan. 2013 and it’s one where we’ll find commenters asking about them when they suddenly stopped posting.

          He/she shares in the email that they were grateful that people realized he/she stopped posting.

          I do recall others asking about someone who disappeared. Is this ringing any bells with anyone?

          Whoever wrote it, GZ had to change emails and telephone numbers to avoid contact with them in Feb. and it ticked them off. The anger though got directed at O’Mara.

          • Rick actually spoke very highly of mini in his Sept. 27 post. Yes I read it. http://rickmadigan.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/who-is-the-real-rick-madigan/

            “I found Minpin and expressed my apologies for not stepping in, and she said it meant a lot to her. The truth is Minpin, I prayed for you for days after that exchange. It felt like you were being treated just like George was. And here, you were advocating for him, on a blog that was advocating for him also. How ironic!”

            Maybe this is why SD vetted that email here. Because he was adamant and a lil angry that you nettie believe he is RM. But even now it still begs the question. More so now then before…. 😉

          • As we all know minpin is quite capable of unleashing her wrath on anyone at any time for almost anything she has a strong opinion about, including you. She speaks her mind. IMO, she sometimes does that prematurely, or takes a post to mean something different from the poster’s intent. but whenever she does that, she fully explains what she thinks.

            I do not remember minpin mentioning anyone who is a fan of hers nor have I ever noticed her being overly friendly with other posters or vice versa. She actually has a tendency to ignore or misunderstand “compliments” that are made to her or about her. She is not ….here to establish friendships or to be popular even is she is.

            The person who mentioned her knows little to nothing about minpin and may not even follow the blog. Hog wash!!!

            How are things going for you, Annette?

            • Jordan, to that I say “Touche” I try to avoid they overly passionate types in debates. Emotions just do not belong in true debating. I do not believe mini was attempting to have a shadow. That is not what I was insinuating.
              This is a cat and mouse game as she has stated. First the sender was Ken. Then Rick was brought into it. Then minipin.
              Really I do give a flying pig. But I do know that sender is now amoungst us here. I tnink theybshould own it. Explain themselves and if their opinions have changed I am as willing as anyone to accept it. Some here were on the MOM bashing band wagon. They changed their minds. It is possible.
              Nettie asked me to drop it. So I shall.

  14. Why is probably the toughest question to answer.

    SD might simply deny that he ever communicated that to Nettles, or answer that she intentionally misconstrued what he implied because of her “prog” views.

    • It’s a good thing that Ken clarified that with Nettles, hopefully SD will do the same. However the revelation that the author of the email is minpin06′ is confusing if it’s the same minpin that comments here and has asked others to reveal their personal connection to the case (which I think is very unwise)

      • rejoicenhim- That portion of SD’s comment was written in a manner to do just that, confuse some. What he is actually saying is that whoever wrote the email was one of my biggest fans that supported GZ. I have no clue at all who he is talking about. I have never considered anyone in particular to be one of GZ’s biggest fans’, there have been many big GZ fans. I do have a guess at who SD may be referring to, as someone who used to post at the CTH, but, I never for the first minute ever thought that person was a close friend of GZ, and that had daily contact with him.

        I would also like to clear up another misconception you have. If you will notice, I have pretty much stayed out of all of the conversations taking place here about behind the scenes emails, backstories, who particular family members are etc. To be honest, I really don’t care who wrote the email, or even if it is real or fake. I am also not very curious about who all of the family members are, what they said, what emails they sent, or what their views are on Mark O;Mara. One can’t help but seeing SZ putting herself out there for the nation to absorb if they so chose.

        I said a few weeks ago, when all the stories were being posted about all kinds of personal emails flying around in the background between site owners, and the privileged few, during the entire time period since the event, that it felt icky to be one who was participating in the public discussion wherever I posted, but it appeared there was another whole different discussion going on in the background. If the email being discussed here is a part of the background story, I realize I didn’t miss out on anything. Obviously there were no facts or details being discussed through email that could have had an significant impact on the outcome of the trial.

        As far as it being wise or unwise as to what family members choose to reveal themselves or their positions, that is strictly up to them in doing whatever they feel the need to do.

        • After Hooson clarified about the “biggest fan”, I felt embarrassed that I had misread that portion and fell for the mystery bait that was set out by mentioning yet

        • Actually the way it’s worded made it sound like you had your own blog at some point and the person in question was the biggest GZ fan who posted on that blog.

          Although that wouldn’t necessarily make it any easier to figure out who they are.

          • The reference to minpin in an email should discount every thing else in that email.. Well, at least it should to anyone who follows this blog.

        • You said: I have no clue at all who he is talking about.

          When the allegatation about you and a fan you admired came up. that sent up a huge warning flag to me. You are as independent in your thinking and posting as one can get. You take great pride in being that way, so I have serious doubts about any thing said that is contradictory to that and suggests to me that the author has not a clue about you.

          Now that you are up to date in the computer world, minpin, I am suggesting that you start a blog. You have a lot to say and are fluid in expressing your thoughts. I promise to be one of the first followers if you do that. I am not trying to flatter you, because I doubt anyone could do that. I am only telling what I personally think from my view.

  15. Rejoicehim –

    I read that as being minpin’s “biggest fan” at CTH, and not minpin. So I may have misread it.

  16. Off topic. But would like to share for those interested.
    I started getting flu shots the past few years. One reason was because I was around my Mom who had COPD and she would easily get sick even with her shots. Then I developed really bad allergies that made my asthma worse around this time of year. To try to avoid steroids as much as possible I got the flu shot.

    I got my shot yesterday. It was the interdermal shot they began giving to adults. Not sure if any of you have gotten this shot yet, it does take a few weeks to become effective. My experience this year that I did not have last year was a headache that just would not go away last evening. Today it is better. But then again I am on prendisone too. The only other complaint so far is the injection site. It is not too sore but it is much redder and swollen then regular shots. It itches a lil as well. I have beenbiving when it bothers me.
    Last year I was tired and ached but so far nothing. The pro of the interdermal is the needle is very small. They place the shot against your skin and click the top of the prefilled shot. Kinda like someone taking their blood sugar but it is in your arm. I did not feel a thing. The needle does go in as far as the tissue but not the muscle. And the virus is dead, and it also takes much less medication in the shot. So if you are one who gets flu shots see if interdermal shots are available in your area.

    • I’ve never taken the flu shot but I might have to one day, so the smaller needle sounds less intimidating minus the itching and xtra swelling.

    • I do not get any kind of shots. My youngest daughter, now 20, never had any shots either. We fought the requirement and won. If you can find any copies of Death By Injection or The Poisoned Needle, they are right up your alley, Danny.

      • I use to be very against flu shots for a few reasons. . I do not get my kids those. They have been vaccinated. My oldests got shingles after her varcella vaccines at the age of 3. It was a 1 in 100 million chance. Go figure! I still vaccinated my other two. My wifes cousin got chicken pox so bad at six she had to have a liver transplant. She dies two years ago @ 25. But it is a greater benefit for me because I have really bad allergies that affect my asthma in the spring–summer. Then in the fall the cold season has already put me down with really bad bronchitis which requires meds that give me many side effects. So if the flu shot affords me no flu, or minimized sysmptoms I think those risks are small compared. But if a family is against vaccines and makes educated medical decisions for their children I def. would advocate for them.

        • The books I mentioned are out of print, rare and hard to find. Don’t know for sure but I did hear they were banned by our government and are not registered in our archives. The things our government has done to shield those who manufacture these drugs are documented. These companies are virtually immune and face no consequences as a result of the vaccinations required by public schools. The statistics of children who have died or have been permanently crippled are no longer made public because our government figures the numbers are insignificant compared to their version of what is best for us as a country…. IOW. that is incidental, collateral damage?

          The copies I had were paperback and probably printed in someone’s basement but they were legible.

          Think about this: Has there ever been any studies to find out what happens when these drugs are mixed and put into a human body? Think about all of the possible combinations. Probably millions of them. Am I making sense to you?

          The only exception I made for my daughter was a tetanus shot after doing a lot of research on it and determined that is was safe.

          • Jordan,
            I am most sure the books published in that time did have weight in some of what was said. Vaccines have been changed to less harmful, and more effective. There are a low percentage of individuals who should be vaccinated at different times.
            I get my children vaccinated but I do not vaccinate them with newer vaccines that are not nessessary. Like that HPV vaccine. They were not vaccinated with Prevnar.

            It is important for everyone to weigh the medical risks and stay informed. Looking back in history many have died from flu outbreaks when it could have been prevented. Many children had high mortality rates from diseases like measles, mumps, whopping cough ,and TB. The vaccines have helped irradicate or lower the risk of catching it. Since some are opting out of the vaccines some diseases are returning. Such as TB and whooping cough. Mortality rates are rising. One of the reasons is because the US has immigrants who never were vaccinated bring the disease here and then spread it to those not vaccinated.
            For instance in my home state children do not require TB testing for school entrance anymore. But when we lived in LA it was required because they have higher cases of TB because of immigrants and overseas visitors.
            There are many reasons to stay informed and dependent upon your living and work situations the benefits outweigh any risks because the vaccines are mostly safe and more effective then not getting the vaccines then they were before. If you travel over seas it is always best to stay up to date on your vaccines to protect yourself and others.
            I feel most fears are irrational but I do understand some peoples lack of trust government promotion. But the Gov. does have a responsibilty to keeping us informed and safe. One of the reason some side effects are not reported is because they are mild, the patient does not report to their Dr. Another reason is because reporting to the CDC for Drs. &hospitals is not mandatory.
            For individuals like mimi and myself the benefits outweigh the risks of not getting the flu vaccine. My immune system is not as strong either because I have an autoimmune disease and pretty bad asthma that frequently requires steriods that further lowers my immune system.

            • If I may add, a little personal note. As many of you know, I grew up in New York but I spent 6 years when young in Puerto Rico (PR for short). When I left NY at 4 I was not yet vaccinated and PR did not have the same rules for school as the Mainland at that time. As a result, I suffered from Whooping Cough and Measles and when I returned to NY I found out I had been exposed to TB as well, though I did not get sick but I was a carrier.

              Today in PR, through vaccination all of those are extremely rare or eradicated. It is a touchy subject, but depending on your location in the US might be more important and telling as to whether you should vaccinate your children. Large cities why large immigration populations of people who might be carrying the disease, should IMO have their children vaccinated. Otherwise, I think they would be safe for the most part.

    • I get a flu shot EVERY year, since 1992. We had a large group in our office. A new hire had the flue and didn’t know it. Well of course all of the approx. 30 got it. Each was out about a week. Well I had a relaps. I almost died. So yep I get every year. Last year, my doc said at the time, the serum was made to last an additional 6 weeks.

      I do know that my grandson got his mist at the beginning of Sept. Dr said had already had a large number of individuals coming thru with comfirmed case of flu And that’s neat now days, they take a swab from your nose and inside mouth and can tell you if its really the flu.

      Flu shot is dead virus, Flu mist is a live dose of the flu virus. OH and a lil GEM, if you have blood work drawn much at all. Ask the person doing the draw, to please use BUTTERFLY size needle.

  17. Angela Corey: Toss $5M lawsuit filed after George Zimmerman trial

    Lawyers for State Attorney Angela Corey say she has “sovereign immunity” and are asking a judge to throw out a lawsuit filed against her in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case.

    Ben Kruidbos, her former information technology director, was fired in June after he testified that prosecutors did not turn over all information to Zimmerman’s defense team in the shooting death of the 17-year-old. Kruidbos said he was a whistleblower and under the law cannot be fired.

    In court papers filed this week, Corey’s attorneys say the state attorney cannot be sued because she has sovereign immunity as an elected official.

    According to Black’s Law Dictionary, sovereign immunity is the legal doctrine that says the government cannot be sued without its consent.


  18. mimi & jordan2222 – From the article @ OS.

    Circuit Judge Debra Nelson deferred a decision on whether to sanction the prosecution and still hasn’t made a ruling.

    APPALLING from Corey’s attorney:

    It also said Kruidbos was not a lawyer and didn’t have the right to question the ethics and professionalism of the attorneys prosecuting the case.

    The Florida Commission on Human Relations has also launched a whistleblower investigation into Kruidbos’ allegations.

  19. arttart – Just a quick comment on what you posted here.

    Notice how Corey’s argument that BK is not a lawyer and does not have a “right” to question the ethics etc.

    This is a reply to a question that is not asked, nor at issue.

    The issue is that BK had a reasonable fear that he was participating and/or acquiescing in potential criminal activity. He acted accordingly and properly.

    As for “right”, everyone has a right to question ethics and professionalism. This is not a right reserved for lawyers.

    • Interesting but BK did not make any determination, he hired a lawyer who did. Way to distract one question by posing another that is not being asked.

      On a related note Mrs. Kennedy from the 18th Circuit said that O’Mara has not filed a petition with the court and until he does no Hearing will be held, she will e-mail me when and if that changes and MOM files for a Hearing.

        • Yes, I knew about the Commission and their opinions are binding. My only concern that they are a politically appointed body and it was politics that got GZ into this mess.

          • Correct.. And Bondi or Scott could shut down the entire process. Both are in trouble here as it is so who knows what they may or may not do. I was tricked into voting for both of them… lesson learned.

      • Is it wise for MOM to wait until the suit against Corey is complete? I do not see Nelson giving MOM what he wants. Of course, none of us what will be in his request since he said he was going to revise it.

        • MOM and West are in the best position to make that call. It is hard to second guess when we don’t have all the facts at hand.

        • Yes, I was told that MOM has yet to file a petition to be heard, until MOM files something the issue will linger.

          I don’t know why he is delaying, maybe Nettles can ask.

  20. hooson1st – excellent point on the insult BK “is not a lawyer & does not have a right,” & you too are correct that everyone has a right t question ethics & professionalism, it happens every day. LMAO!

    Did you see my link about the Fla. Bar in which I think it was 24 Attorney’s that were reprimanded, 4 lost their licenses, 1 resigned, & many others were disciplined in different ways, BUT, they were ALL questioned about their ethics & professionalism, thought they were in the private sector, they were attorney’s & plain ole everyday folk had issues w/their honesty.

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