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in front of someone’s face is rude and I won’t tolerate here. If anyone wants to have a private conversation with me and wants to keep it private, I will do that.

If you decide to bring that conversation in front of everyone, then don’t expect the conversation to stay private.

Hopefully, as you read this you are getting a duplicate look at the emails that Sundance forwarded to me unannounced on Feb. 22, 2013. You can compare if he changed or deleted anything.

You can now be a part of the conversation about their validity and whether you notice if any of this seeped into the online conversations at the treehouse.

As Sundance chose to talk about this email in front of everyone here (which I find extremely rude and I’m quite surprised so many of you were so polite about it) he has lost any commitment from me to keep the email private. As for the sender, now that I’m quite certain it wasn’t sent from George’s family and the fact that the sender says they promised to keep quiet and then didn’t, they lose the right to privacy and can suffer the consequence of loose lips.

After Sources post, I hope Sundance did the right thing and shared the email with all of you either here at this blog (as he seems to like to keep his readers in the dark) or he may disclose it at his blog and explain himself to everyone (that would be really great!) Has he explained yet why he invoked Ken’s name into the email scam?

For those just checking in, I’m off for a few days for medical reasons and I’ve set this thread to post automatically at midnight.  Giving 24 hours for Sundance to bring the email forward.  As he was the one who received it and he is the one who talked about it on this blog, I wanted to provide him a chance to do the right thing.

In case he didn’t share it, here is the email as I received it on Feb. 22nd.

Last Refuge

22/02/2013 8:21PM

To: Diwataman, Chip Bennett, Annette Kelly

Picture of Last Refuge

This is being shared with you because you are smart, in tune, and influential to other site readers. Under NO circumstances can it be discussed, shared or forwarded.

I have done a massive amount of boots on the ground investigation of this case.  I have travelled to Orlando, Lake Mary, Sanford et al, and one thing rings consistent in every single conversation.   Mark O’Mara cannot be trusted.  He is part of the “machine”.

O’Mara runs with Mark Nejame, Greg Francis, John Morgan, Charlie Crist, et al.  They are his circle of influence – and each has a vested interest in his case with George Zimmerman.

Two specifics beyond refute.

#1)  O’Mara lied to the court during the bond hearing about the GZ Pay-Pal account.   He knew with specific detail about the account and he actually *instructed* George and Shellie not to put it on their financial affidavit, an affidavit “he filed with the court”.

There is evidence, physical evidence, to back this up.   AND more alarmingly Angela Corey is in custody of this evidence which shows O’Mara AT THE JAIL, audio and video, of him talking to GZ about it.

Blackmail material????   – think about it.   How would an unscrupulous, and politically motivated, prosecutor use this information?

(*Note, the state Bar also opened an investigation into O’Mara about the finances in this case – the investigation is still “pending” …. O’Mara has filed responses seeking to avoid the inquiry – does that help to clear up his hesitance about filing indigency?)

#2)  O’Mara had custody of George Zimmerman’s passport from day ONE.   In his briefcase, and he forgot to tell the court.   He forgot.   For over a month he forgot….. until the prosecution used it to advance the demand for custody restrictions.   Again, THINK ABOUT IT.

What follows below is a series of background information which is FYI ONLY.   An E-Mail rec’d from a person who knows what I just outlined above, yet they do not know my full awareness.  (I am also protecting their identity).

——————————– Rec’d Correspondance Below ————————

OMG, Sundance, thank you for writing me back, really. Since I have your vote of confidentiality, I wanna tell you some things.

First, I called George again yesterday, and he briefly told me that O’Mara doesn’t want him talking to me.

Please dear God, I hope everything is okay, but maybe I should not say anything anymore. I too am not allowed to talk to anyone, technically, I had to sign some sort of life long contract promising to never say anything about George, including posting on blogs. Basically, every other citizen can say what they like, but I lost my rights as a citizen because I am George’s XXXXXXXXXXX

What a load of crock. And he cuts me off when he has been using my writings, my research, my analysis, and the letters that have helped the case. In fact, in every hearing, he has used my arguments and research, bringing no idea of his own, which really makes me wonder what his law school education was all about.

I am George’s XXXXXXXXXXXXX, I am not getting paid, I am not getting credit or anything, but every time he senses I am influencing George against him, and I don’t know how he knows this but he cuts me off right when I am getting through. He’s done it before. And sadly, its been at George’s lowest times, when he needed my support and influence.

(BTW, your blog and threads have been the key to most of my research and ideas. The writers here have provided the words that formed my letters that O’Mara and West have found so impressive and used in the case. But, I digress.)

You remember back in July when you were talking about the financial manipulation. You were totally on target! Although, a little quick in getting rid of Treepers, if they were O’Mara supporters. I wish we could’ve retained and converted a few of them. lol!

Soon, as George was out of jail and free to talk we talked, a lot. I told him to go on Hannity, which he did, but I wish he had been a little more real than Yes Sir, No Sir, God told me to do it Sir; I wish he had said “Look America, I am getting screwed, this could happen to you, I apologized already and they ridiculed me, etc. etc.”

Anyway, I told him about the financial manipulation and George agreed.

O’Mara screwed him on the bail bond issue. George said there was no way he could stay in, not one more minute, so he made O’Mara do whatever was needed, and in the process O’Mara pulled a few fast ones, as XXXXXXXXXXXXX talked about on those threads. (BTW XXXXXXXXXXXX posts on those threads were very helpful for laypeople like me to follow.)

George set me out to find him another Funds Administrator. I talked to several CPA’s and Lawyers, cause in Florida they can be either. But I ran into some strange responses when I talked to Lawyers in Orlando. Very curious, crazy ass responses when O’Mara’s name came up.

One lawyer, her name XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX maybe in my notes somewhere, told me that she had been given a reference by Lester when she applied to be a Judge in Seminole, because she had done some work for one of Lester’s family members. Anyway, she said she did not want anything to do with O’Mara, but she might think about it after speaking to George. I tried to get her to tell me why O’Mara was an issue.

XXXXXXXXXXXXX said that O’Mara and her had worked together XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXX and she caught him red handed in a lie. She confronted him, he acknowledged and apologized and told her it would never happen again. (SURE! As though dishonesty is a remedial condition in anyone!)

XXXXXXXXXX said that his lie caused her problems, but he tried to make amends to her and she decided to let it go, which is why she does not wish to talk about the details. But she vowed never to work with him again.)

Another very well known, reputable attorney called me back and we were having a fairly professional conversation, until O’Mara’s name came up.

All of a sudden this really sober old dog with his own firm begins talking to me like I am a fishwife, and shouting that he would have to undo and redo the entire fund to his satisfaction, make sure everything complied with government, bar, state regulations and is okayed by judge and blah blah blah. He was acting like my very proposal to him was a disgrace to his reputation in Orlando as an honest attorney and also that he is immensely high priced but the best.

There were a couple of others who went crazy too, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX thinking like they were being asked to do something unethical. I am not sure why O’Mara’s name was sending a tsunami through the Orlando lawyers I called. I thought it might be because of the race issue and death threats for anyone to do with the case, until you kept talking about his dishonesty and then I began putting it together.

In any event, I tried to call back George to give him the information, and he kept saying he was busy, he was busy. And then he changed his number, and his email. I figured he was giving me the heave ho, so I don’t know if I threw out all the notes I collected. I hope I saved some of the links if you wanna do something with it.

But keep me out of it, I don’t like the politics O’Mara plays with.

He may have all the form of charm and airs of sophistication that George likes, but its gold ring on a pig’s snout!

George called me several weeks later and told me that O’Mara was concerned because XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX was put up on the Treehouse and he knew the origination of that article.

But he told George that if I was XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX at the Treehouse also, I could possibly say things I ought not to say. (George must be protected from being influenced by Anti-O’Mara Treepers, me thinks.)

That’s when I got XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX. Felt so bad that a lot of people were asking about me and I simply disappeared.

But I am glad they kept asking for a bit, so O’Mara people and George would know I was not posting there anymore. George’s family noticed right away because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX (I am glad Treepers are continuing that tradition.)

George’s XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX reads the posts, as XXXXXX said recently.

I am surprised, because he told me that he was getting tired and sleeping a lot. I told him to stay away from emotional things, which drain the energy, and raise pressure. He is a heart patient, and his idea of simply making it till XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX gets through this, is sad, kinda. I hope he plans to live longer than that, so I don’t wanna tell him drastic things like, XXXXXXX XXXXXXX is screwed if he sticks with O’Mara, which is what I think also, but …

He had tried helping George in the beginning, when he realized the XXXXXXXX were not helping XXXXX XXXXX XXXX. Dad got those two attorneys for George, and then George listened to another friend who said they were no good. I think dad would help, if George would listen. They don’t visit each other, and I don’t know how much that is influenced by Pastor Jim Jones.

Dad was supportive of George’s black co worker and George’s brother being out and about in the world, trying to straighten things out, but Pastor Jones disapproves and wants total control.

I was surprised when George told me that he had sent my gift to his mother, at Christmas, through XXXX I expected Gladys to be there and open it in front of him.

Although, the package was picked up after Christmas, yet, it sounds like they don’t visit or talk much. I try not to ask too much on the personal side. I simply listen and notice things. Shellie is not much of an influence on George, but I think she is XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX , if George doesn’t. She XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXX, so that’s good.

Some of George’s family and friends post at the Treehouse, and George knows each of their user names; he began telling me once, but I figured the less I know the better.

I know his mother in law posts, his brother sometimes, brother in law, maybe sister, cousins, acquaintances and a few friends.

He did tell me to keep an eye on XXXXXXXXXXXXX who also posts as XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX; this person could post George and Shellie’s physical location, recklessly, not intentionally. I was glad when the person was banned in December, but I think they are posting again.

I hope O’Mara doesn’t bother me. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXX I don’t think I have done anything wrong. I might have stated an opinion that didn’t agree with him. But otherwise I have followed all the rules as I was told to do.

I hope George realizes that I cannot follow rules I don’t know about.

And anyway, instead of being so anal on inconsequential petty matters, his lawyers need to be busy doing what they ought to be doing. I think O’Mara is looking for ways out, or ways to skate through this debacle somehow.

Wouldn’t you like to hear what those Orlando attorneys are thinking and saying about how O’Mara is doing, if they indeed know his character?

Thank you for listening and keeping it all confidential, Sundance. You are the best in the blog business!


From: “thelastrefuge@reagan.com” <thelastrefuge@reagan.com> To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:44 PM
Subject: RE: Confidential for Sundance

I’ve got your six. Don’t worry…. I’m going to stay on top of O’Mara. There’s more there than I have even written openly.

George is in big trouble if he sticks with Mark O’Mara. I have been witness to that since the first bond hearing when the entire fiasco with the Pay Pal accounts and financial affidavit came up.

I thought everyone in the family was on board with the O’Mara love. But it sounds like Dad might not be from what you have shared.

Keep the faith, and if possible to influence his Mom or Dad, DO IT.

All the best to you and your family. Hold faith in a loving God.


—–Original Message—–
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 7:32am
To: “thelastrefuge@reagan.com” <thelastrefuge@reagan.com> Subject: Confidential for Sundance

Dear Sundance,

I was reading one of your blog threads on George, after all, and found it both curious and coincidental that you had a link for Jonestown in there.

Curious and coincidental because I found out yesterday that O’Mara has forbidden George to associate with me. Isolating him from friends and family like he’s a child. He goes along to meetings with George’s pastor also. We are deep in the jungles of Guyana for sure.

Also, I understand XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX redacted by SD XXXXXXXXXX. Symbolically what happened.

For so much fear and control to be happening, something big is going to go down. Keep up with the sunlight Sundance. Don’t give up. You have always been George’s guardian angel with the blog threads and exposing the truth.


PS. I am going to keep XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX with Shellie at least

Some of you may pick up that the team shopped for a new fund-manager in July of 2012.  What a coincidence that the sender talked to Orlando laywers in July, Sundance talked to Orlando lawyers in July and both developed an interest to start talking about it in late February 2013.  Wow!

If Sundance chose not to post this, I can see him arguing with you guys and you have one arm tied behind your back because you haven’t seen it.  Well now we are all on the same playing field as it should have been way back in February.  Who is Sundance to ask me to manipulate you guys?

Let me remind you of the timeline.  Sundance has been pretty good about staying away from the O’Mara subject and we were all happily going along sharing information that we hoped helped the defense win an acquittal.  Then on Feb. 20th, Sundance got that email.  He decided to share it with 3 of us on Feb. 22nd at 8:21pm and on Feb. 23rd he could hold back no more.  He posted the O’Mara thread.  I responded at 9:38am that I didn’t think us attacking the lawyer was a good move.  That turned out to be the post that got me banned.  Now that you know what the email contents were and with whom they were shared, its interesting to read the thread again. Diwataman and Chip didn’t get banned but their comments weren’t the same as mine. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/02/23/never-allow-anything-to-compromise-your-integrity-george-zimmerman-is-learning-the-consequences-and-it-wasnt-even-his-creation/

The email I received about why my post was trashed was quick and read as follows:

From: thelastrefuge@reagan.com
Sent: February-23-13 9:56:25 AM
To: Annette Kelly (nettles@bell.net)

Obviously I made a big mistake in corresponding to you – Lesson learned.

However, obviously from the comment you posted you just don’t “get it”, and it appears this is an intentional decision on your part.

I take exception to the tone and disparagement aimed specifically toward me, in my house, within the comment, and have deleted it from view. You show a keen disconnect from grace or mannerly behavior.

Farewell and following seas.

The TRUTH Has NO Agenda.


but, but, but,…..what about me being smart and influential? 😀

Sundance rethought that and allowed the post to be viewed and riddled with his response. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/02/23/never-allow-anything-to-compromise-your-integrity-george-zimmerman-is-learning-the-consequences-and-it-wasnt-even-his-creation/#comment-327842 You can read it for yourself and decide what it tells you.

It’s clear, this email is why we were exposed to more Mr. O’Mara bashing at the treehouse in February. You will note in the email Sundance sent to the writer, he thinks “Dad” is ok with O’Mara. That was on February 20th and as you witness in the post on the sources thread, on March 25th he is actually arguing online with Mr. Zimmerman about whether he was silenced or not by Mr. O’Mara and whether he (Mr. Zimmerman) had grave troubles with it.

Did some of the Zimmermans have criticisms? Of course they did. I’m one of Mr. O’Mara’s biggest fans and I had some criticisms as well.

To whoever wrote this email, I ask that you come forward and explain to us why it suddenly dawns on you in Feb. that all the Orlando lawyers think Mr. O’Mara is untrustworthy that you talked to in July. Why didn’t it dawn on you when you actually had those conversations?  You tell Sundance that the very day before you wrote this email that George told you he couldn’t talk with you no more on the advice of Mr. O’Mara. Is that why you lashed out against Mr. O’Mara? Did you like talking with George? Did you know George before the shooting or did you become acquainted after the shooting?

As I said, when I got this email I thought it largely garbage because the person says right in it, yesterday I got news I can’t talk with George no more so now I know what those lawyers meant in July.  What is curious is all the references Sundance makes after this date about his 3 day weekend trip to Orlando and talks to clerks and lawyers.  How many of them are at their offices on weekends?

I thought if this was valid at all, perhaps Ken and George had a parting of the ways and I only thought Ken because of the reference to sourcing a new fund manager. Why did Sundance specifically mention Ken and this email in August here on this blog? Did Sundance think the writer was Ken? Re-reading it here for the 2nd time, it’s crazy that the writer is believed to have been a family member. This is looney-tunes.  The writer thinks everything coming out of O’Mara’s mouth in court is their work!

Due to the timing of Sundance’s posts in February in relation to getting this writing, he has absolutely taken these ravings as solid evidence of what he has already suspected. Sundance, if this is a crazed fan of George’s they could have written all this stuff based on what you posted last July and sent so many away from your blog.

I think Sundance got played. What do you think?


162 thoughts on “Whispering

  1. Was the quote mentioned in your previous post, re: the confidentiality agreement, included in the above article? I didn’t see it. (maybe my eyes are tired…)

  2. The one sentence that stick in my craw from the entire text of Nettle’s “Whisperings” is in Sundance’s reply of February 20th of this year to his confidential informant:

    “George is in big trouble if he sticks with Mark O’Mara.”

    • This one, too: ‘…and if possible to influence his Mom or Dad, DO IT.’

      Seems like he’s trying to influence an extraordinarily important decision by GZ on less than complete information / sources, i.e., a few interviews with some peripheral folks around the Orlando legal system.

      • Go back to Robert Sr’s posts that Nettles linked to in the Zimmerman’s a comfortably clueless post. Robert Sr. states, “I’ve even been accused of being a Democrat.” Was SD working hard behind the scenes to disparage any Zimmerman family member who he may have thought was a Democrat? He said himself that he gives no credit to anyone who is a Democrat. I can hear SD now asking Robert if he is a Democrat. If he said yes, he would have been shunned even more.

    • How about this one: “…you kept talking about his dishonesty and then I began putting it together”

      Why didn’t your research and conversations have you put it together independently? Who is influencing whom?

      • Sundance deserves credit jumping in against the bullsh&t BGI narrative before many other bloggers. He had some interesting blogs about GZ/TM/BGI, some accurate blogs about GZ/TM/BGI. and also some complete garbage blogs about GZ/TM/BGI with no basis to reality. I found all three types of his blogs to be entertaining.

        I’m a political centrist. He’s a crazy tea partyier to me as far as I’m concerned.

    • + gazillion. Wonder what SD REALLY thought when GZ was acquitted? HONESTLY Thought? HONEST we will never know, because SD cant even be hones with himself.

      Catching up now…

  3. “Evidence which shows O’Mara AT THE JAIL, audio and video, of him talking to GZ about it.”

    This is part of the “indictment” of MOM. Where to begin,

    1. Conversations between attorney and client are not only privileged but confidential.
    2. Any prosecutor caught listening to conversations between the 2 will suffer sanctions if not outright Disbarment.
    3. Conversations between the two cannot be taped or listen to
    4. Any information obtained by illegally listening to a client, lawyer conversation is not admissible in Court and may get the case tossed out

    With this in mind why would MOM be concerned if he indeed talked to GZ about the money and somehow the SA learned about it

    • Concerning the jailhouse/paypal business, Sundance wrote above in the email to Chip, Diwataman and Nettles:

      ——————— “Two specifics beyond refute.

      #1) O’Mara lied to the court during the bond hearing about the GZ Pay-Pal account. He knew with specific detail about the account and he actually *instructed* George and Shellie not to put it on their financial affidavit, an affidavit “he filed with the court” ——————————–

      But this is contradicted by Shellie’s plea bargain with the court.

      Do you think, for a moment, that BDLR wouldn’t want to nail MOM for alleged perjury? Or is it a plot by Corey, BDLR, Shellie, George, and whomever else (maybe Holder) to protect MOM at all costs?

      • Was a finacial affidavit EVER filed? There was “talk” of indigency but that never was filed.
        Also, I discussed the pay pal fiasco in the past few days and it was clear that everyone whom had access to those funds prior to MOM agreed to keep the volume of the money collected from MOM.
        Because someone is aware of the website means nothing.

        Also, this is untrue “(*Note, the state Bar also opened an investigation into O’Mara about the finances in this case – the investigation is still “pending” …. O’Mara has filed responses seeking to avoid the inquiry – does that help to clear up his hesitance about filing indigency?)”

        The only person who could take this to the Bar would be GZ. If there was an investigation nobody would know as those are confidential and private. I cleared this up with SD a lil bit ago on here. Maybe someone could find that discussion. Nettles?

        • Also, this is untrue “(*Note, the state Bar also opened an investigation into O’Mara about the finances in this case – the investigation is still “pending” …. O’Mara has filed responses seeking to avoid the inquiry – does that help to clear up his hesitance about filing indigency?)”

          I asked around and what I was told if that if a complaint had been filed and resolved after MOM’s response, nothing found, it is possible that someone knew then but as you mention not while it is still being investigated.

      • I was perfectly happy to stay out of the email discussion’s because no one had seen the email’s and it is difficult to talk about something that is an unknown. Now that the email’s have been posted, there is another point in the email that is untrue.

        The emailer claims that O’Mara had George’s passport from day one, but forgot it in is briefcase which caused problems. IIRC, George had two passports. He thought he lost his original passport and applied for and received another one. Didn’t George give O’Mara the second passport, not misplassed at the time, and O’Mara did hand it into the court at the first Bond hearing. There was a jailhouse tape of Shellie telling George that while packing she came across a duffle bag of some sort and the original passport was in there? George told her to put it in the safe deposit box if I am not mistaken. As soon as George was released from jail, he sent the original passport to O’Mara, and that was the one O’Mara forgot in his briefcase. When it came up in court, O’Mara provided proof to Lester that George in fact did send it to him, but that he forgot to hand it in. Lester seemed to accept O’Mara’s explanation.

        • MInpin- You are correct but one thing is you have the passports wrong. The one that GZ had turn in originally was the one that was set to expire or was expired the one that MOM forgot to turn in was the good one, but one was mailed to MOM several days after the Bond Hearing.

          • Thanks Bori. I knew that one of them was turned in immediately at the first Bond hearing. The second one was sent to him as soon as GZ got out of jail. So it still does not make sense that the emailer is saying that O’Mara had the passport from day one, but forgot about it in his briefcase. That isn’t true. That whole thing was well documented, and the facts are available for anyone who looked for them, yet the emailer wrote that garbage this past Feb.?

            • Just some quick observations on this matter.

              The whole construct of the e-mail seem only to re-enforce the claims by SD, including things that are not only wrong but probably wrong, and somewhat silly.

              There was no new information in the communication but a regurgitation of past claims.

              The e-mail was shared with people who were influential with others and would assist SD with his quest.

              SD’s answer to me that he only is responding because Nettles is using his material to frames the issues is hogwash that is what all of us do, we may add a thing or two but so what. It appears more of an attempt to frame the issue here as well.

              Just some quick observations, no conclusions.

                  • It sounds to me like “someone” wants to prove that MOM committed a criminal act in the money issue during the bond hearing. So what if he did?

                    • Yes, someone is a least implying that but there is no proof that. Or if something did happen without the element of intent to defraud or deceive, it would still would not be crime.

                      From my viewpoint if anything happened it was an ethical issue not a criminal one. But we can’t really even say that as we have not seen the Financial disclosure to get us started and what we do know is contradictory.

                    • My comments were regarding the e-mail that cause such consternation here, and the financial disclosure I was referring to was the one that GZ filed that got him in hot water with the Bond Hearing.

                    • Why have we been left in the dark when so many things that are supposed to be made public remain hidden?

                    • Bori have to reply to you here. I have searced for Adam Magills (forensic accountants) testimony. Can not find it. I think it was duringbthe June 29th bond hearing. All I can find is news feeds. I would like to rewatch the testimony. Are you aware of any video links? You also may be interested in this as well Jordan….

              • Agree Bori. It is all about the cat and mouse game. The CTH isn’t posting much about the GZ case lately, but it appears that SD can’t get over not being able to influence enough to go against O’Mara. He is trying to do that here on this site, even long after the fact. Reminds of of some that just can’t take no for an answer, admit they have been wrong about some things at least, and mostly the quest to incite. That’s why I mostly stayed out of these discussion. It’s like trying to argue with a a die hard ideologue who trolls sites just to get get a reaction. Every time someone responds with rationality or reason, it only gives some a further reason to exist on that site. Don’t feed the trolls comes to mind, but, I am guilty of such. I’m about out of troll food.

      • Hoosan- Especially in light of the Kruidbos/White testimonies in the sanctions hearings. If BDLR had dirt on O’Mara he would have screamed it from the rooftops right then.

    • Here is Florida law 766.28:

      In accordance with s. 13, Art. X of the State Constitution, the state, for itself and for its agencies or subdivisions, hereby waives sovereign immunity for liability for torts, but only to the extent specified in this act. Actions at law against the state or any of its agencies or subdivisions to recover damages in tort for money damages against the state or its agencies or subdivisions for injury or loss of property, personal injury, or death caused by the negligent or wrongful act or omission of any employee of the agency or subdivision while “acting within the scope of the employee’s office or employment under circumstances in which the state or such agency or subdivision, if a private person, would be liable to the claimant, in “accordance” with the general laws of this state, may be prosecuted subject to the limitations specified in this act”. Any such action may be brought in the county where the property in litigation is located or, if the affected agency or subdivision has an office in such county for the transaction of its customary business, where the cause of action accrued.

      I think 2 things will be key here, ” acting in within to her duties” and in “accordance to the general laws”. If she was breaking the law by withholding possible exculpatory information from the Defense then there is no immunity. Just like the police can’t claim immunity if they break the law and injure someone, even if done while performing their duties.

      This section spells it out more clearly:

      (9)(a) No officer, employee, or agent of the state or of any of its subdivisions shall be held personally liable in tort or named as a party defendant in any action for any injury or damage suffered as a result of any act, event, or omission of action in the scope of her or his employment or function, unless such officer, employee, or agent acted in bad faith or with malicious purpose or in a manner exhibiting wanton and willful disregard of human rights, safety, or property. However, such officer, employee, or agent shall be considered an adverse witness in a tort action for any injury or damage suffered as a result of any act, event, or omission of action in the scope of her or his employment or function. The exclusive remedy for injury or damage suffered as a result of an act, event, or omission of an officer, employee, or agent of the state or any of its subdivisions or constitutional officers shall be by action against the governmental entity, or the head of such entity in her or his official capacity, or the constitutional officer of which the officer, employee, or agent is an employee, unless such act or omission was committed in bad faith or with malicious purpose or in a manner exhibiting wanton and willful disregard of human rights, safety, or property. The state or its subdivisions shall not be liable in tort for the acts or omissions of an officer, employee, or agent committed while acting outside the course and scope of her or his employment or committed in bad faith or with malicious purpose or in a manner exhibiting wanton and willful disregard of human rights, safety, or property.

      • Very interesting Bori. What I take from reading the statute is that the state employee will not be responsible for the payment of any lawsuit, but rather the state agency, or whoever is in charge of the agency will be responsible for the payment of any penalties if found guilty state agent is found guilty of any of the above named infractions. In other words, the state taxpayer’s will be responsible for any payments made because of a state employee breaking the law.

        I go back to the payment of $5 million dollars from the state taxpayer’s to Crump via Charlie Crist and Pam Bondi in the Martin Lee Andersen case. Bondi was in the prosecutors office and participated in the lawsuit against the staff of the facility. She and the prosecutors lost that case. Then someone, perhaps Bondi, talked Crist into convincing the Fla. legislature into making a payment simply because they lost the case. Why wouldn’t Crump have been hoping for a repeat? The state having to pay damages because of Corey’s actions will also hit the taxpayers, not Corey or anyone else they may find in violation.

        • I think you are absolutely correct. minpin. I just wonder how many Florida citizens realize that five million was paid as if Crump deserved it. Bottom line is that it was a “gift” because not one penny of it was ever “earned.” I only hope that this is brought to light during our next election when both Scott and Bondi will be challenged in the primaries.

          It is only one of many outrageous things that both Scott and Bondi have done. Whether my observation is correct or not, these things appear to me to have been done to solicit black votes.

          I have been here since 1977. I realize that conservatives may be outnumbered, so sadly, we may become a Democrat state. It sickens me that people in power openly abuse that power and face no consequences.

    • the “shirinking list”

      “As they question Zimmerman, police say the list of items allegedly taken from the home is shrinking as the Deans now report they’ve found the television in another location.”

        • Good point winsome. I remember Shellie protesting that George was looking inside the cab of her father’s pickup. Most people I know put the delicate items like TV’s in the cab. Shellie seemed to have a big problem with that.

    • “As they question Zimmerman, police say the list of items allegedly taken from the home is shrinking as the Deans now report they’ve found the television in another location.”

      Right because when they noticed things supposedly missing, they just happened to miss the large TV in another room right? Sounds to me like they purposely filed a false report just to get it in the news to further support Shelliekins lies.

    • I remember some sort of comment from Chief Bricknell claiming that “this guy is killing us” meaning that George was causing them much grief as a small police department. I wonder if he has been able to buy a clue that it in fact is the Dean family that is causing him so much grief.

  4. Hey guys checking in. Things are going really well so far. I moved this post up 12 hours after seeing the early morning discussion.

    Rick Look who showed up on February 23rd talking about lawyers in Orlando. This is whacky! Read full comment here http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/02/23/never-allow-anything-to-compromise-your-integrity-george-zimmerman-is-learning-the-consequences-and-it-wasnt-even-his-creation/#comment-328351

    Danny I’ll try to look for that discussion for you tomorrow morning. I’ve got to run. Talk soon. ♥

  5. IMHO the letter is a total farce. I don’t care who wrote it, but I sure have my suspicions. Believe it or not the biggest problem I have with that letter is that whoever wrote it slipped in the ridiculous phrase attributed to George: “God told me to do it Sir”. That’s how George’s words were twisted later, but definitely now what he said, nor what he meant during the Hannity interview.

  6. I’m hearing this person who sent the email may have written Judge Nelson. This led to O’Mara’s advice. It’s believed the person may be someone George met after the shooting and wanted to help him. I’m told a lot of the information is totally made-up. To quote one person close to the family, “It’s crap”

    Will the letters received by the court be made public? I’d be interested in reading what the Judge received in January/February that got contact cut off.

    Again, I invite the writer to talk with us openly here. You’ve made some serious allegations. Were you retaliating for being cut off from your friend? If you had these concerns why did you sit on them for 8 months? Do you have a copy of the promise you signed to never post a blog or speak about George?

    You know because I didn’t believe your allegations in this email, it appears I got banned from posting at the treehouse. When my next post was supportive of Mr. O’Mara I was bid farewell. This correspondence had a direct impact on me. I’d appreciate a forthright response.

    • There are two people I can think of right now who have followed mini around like a puppy even after they left CTH. One I know used another SN for sure. The second I have to do some research. If I find anything I will email you Nettie.

      • With one that’s easy, Rick Madigan. The other one I won’t name because they still post here. Why does any of this matter?

        • Because they post here. If that IS the sender then whatever opinions they hold well….read the email….insert whatever word which defines out of touch the best……

        • After calling someone out who wanted to remain in the crowd, I say drop it.

          If the writer wants to express their opinions, they have a voice, they can do that. If they want this to go away, I say allow that.

          Recall Sundance sending me some of Rick Madigan’s emails and Rick’s last post on her blog. This person may need prayers. Heck, I’m sure he needs prayers, we all do. ♥

          • I personally can drop it.
            Thing is this person seems to jump from blog to blog and is very good at blending in on majority of other posters opinions just to fit in. As I am sure most here would be rather supporting if they indeed changed their opinion, if they actually have, because some here were duped by the CTH bash MOM narrative. But this individual has agenda three fold IMHO.

            • Anyone who really wants to know can figure it out. There are lots of clues there. Then treat the commenter’s posts accordingly.

              I am one who wants to know the relationships but I’ve learned its different for everyone.

                • As Rick Madigan did post about talking with Orlando lawyers, I do believe that is one identity used by the sender of the email to talk with Sundance. There is also another one and Sundance gave minpin06 a hint that it was another GZ fan who was a big fan of hers.

                  Recall that Rick in his last blog said Who is the Real Rick Madigan. In it, she admits to trying to emulate Sundance and she’s happy that I really thought she was Sundance. She admits that the posts were largely pretending to be his persona with a few of her own self sometimes.

                  When she authored that email, she was doing the same thing. She had just been offended by O’Mara (in her mind) for suggesting to George they stop talking with each other. In the email she tells Sundance George was always busy when she called and then when she talked to him, on Feb. 19th, he told her O’Mara said it’s not a good idea for them to talk anymore.

                  So she wrote that email to Sundance the next day and to her utter astonishment the one and only Sundance wrote her back. She responds excitedly, and goes on to tell him exactly what he wants to hear. But its largely made up from his bash posts in July 2012. As a number have noted, it provides nothing new since July’s allegations without proof.

                  Some think the author is a woman who came to know George after the shooting and she’s a little out there. You can read that in the writing. Do you really think someone who George met after the shooting was given the job to find a fund manager? That’s crazy. We already talked how unlikely it is she had to sign something to keep quiet but again, she is feeding into Sundance’s beliefs.

                  If you read Sundance’s reply to her on Feb. 20th, we now have it in writing that as of that date, Sundance thought the entire family was on board with O’Mara. It was this email that gave him hope that perhaps that wasn’t the case.

                  He even went so far as to argue with Robert Sr. about whether or not he’s being controlled and silenced by O’Mara a month later, March 25th. Robert says, it’s not true and Sundance will not listen. He calls him a fake.

                  Sundance shared with us his last email to Rick Madigan and over these months he has come to believe something is wrong. I think he told her he’d pray for her and advised that something in her was “broken”

                  Whoever this lady is, she posts under another identity that we all recognize. When we talked about Rick’s amazing memory it was because she was online with us but posting as someone else. Sundance gave minpin a hint that it was another identity that also showed herself to be a fan of minpins.

                  In the email, the sender reveals that she stopped posting, prob. at George’s request, and we asked about her and she was glad to see we missed her, highlighted she was missing, etc. So we find that person, we find her other identity.

                  We did welcome a new commenter around the same time Rick Madigan closed his. New to us but old to the treehouse.

                  It looks like this email is largely made up by a person who was mad at O’Mara for stopping her contact with her friend George. It also appears to have rekindled Sundance’s prejudices and he took his blog in that direction.

                  • “Whoever this lady is, she posts under another identity that we all recognize.”

                    I do not recognize that person. Please email me so that I can get out of the dark.

                    Is Rick male or female?

                    I must be gender blind. I know that for a long time I thought Aussie was a man. I still do not about lorac.

                    I cannot keep up with the gender changes. Who is he and who is she?

                  • I agree. It was not very hard to figure out who she was by going back to 4-12. I stopped reading the CTH then until trial began need I say why?

                    I was never convinced that SD was RM. I But RM was just too vile for my initial assumptioms. SD is quite tenacious I do not believe he could go that low. He has a voice and a following on his own blog. RM was plugging hard. From here to CTH to RT. But thank you for being adamant about finding out who this individual is. And SD was adamant it was not him…lol.

                    Wonder if she will come back. And to think she blames me for her not coming here anymore? 😉

                    • Danny, April 14th here or on CTH? If CTH, which thread?

                      And, how did it come to be known that RM is a woman? I missed that part. TIA.

                    • This blog opened May 2nd

                      Nothing is known, only suspected. I think a woman got cut-off contact with George around the time this email was sent to Sundance. (someone close to the defense told me that in an email).

                      Then Rick Madigan showed up on a thread that was inspired from this email (feb. 23rd) posting info. that was contained in the email ie; talking to Orlando lawyers.

                      So I speculate that the identity Rick Madigan is the woman who GZ cut off contact with.

                  • Wanted to say before I head out. There a few newer posters here that actually were around for sometime @ CTH and Dmans. For some reason they deleted their gravatar profiles recently? Socks? One actuallyRM mentioned alot and RM was close to the poster @ RTs before disappearing.

                  • Well, I still wonder if the letter writer was SDC writing to himself. Somehow it seems you guys have found out that Rick Madigan is a woman (I found the “who is Rick Madigan” post interesting, as it talked about other people, and did not answer the question of the blog title lol). If this is true about RM being a woman, my guess is her screen name starts with a “J”.

                    • Have to reply here unitron. Some women have self esteem issues. does not make them misogynistic, instead jealous. If you look @ who RM chastises they are strong women who have a POV who hold there own and who do not wither easily.
                      If being a misogynistic women is not enough for RM she also is an atheist who prays to God. Hummmm

                    • The reference I gave was @ CTH. April 2012. But you can go as far to the Osterman posts as well. Easier to weed through.

    • Ha Nettles. Do you really think that you will get a response or any answers. I’d say that there is much more a likelyhood that it will snow in Florida in August than you getting anys answers.

      Hope all continues to go well for you with your health issues.

      • Thanks Minpin! So far things are going very well. My doctor said it looks pristine. I like that very much!

        It doesn’t hurt to ask.

        I’m about done with this topic. It looks like the thing was what I initially thought it was. Retaliation for getting contact cut. Heck, the writer puts that right in the email. Yet it did lead to the Feb. 23rd thread dividing us yet again. Sad really.

        I was really enjoying my time there then.

        BTW, how are you liking hi-speed? Do you think you’ll start your own blog. I agree with Jordan, you’d do well at it.

          • Count me in as still confused (as to who RM really is here or elsewhere).

            I agree that it is not a vital burning question, but it is a puzzle with so many tantalizing threads and therein lies the attraction.

            When the debate started as to whether RM was SD, I held to the opinion that they were two different individuals.

            RM wrote a bunch of entries away from CTH that were counter to where I believe SD’s head was at, and at times RM’s writing style differed. The sheer amount of mental energy that it would require to conduct the simultaneous postings of RM and SD, while still pushing other stories, (like the phenomenal work on Benghazi), seemed improbable, if not, impossible to me.

            Nettle’s detailed deconstruction of the timing and interplay between RM and SD represented a different forensic extraction of factors to consider in resolving the puzzle, and forced me to remain open to the possibility that RM was indeed SD, and that my interpretation was incorrect. Once RM vanished from the blogosphere, Nettle’s continuing back-loaded data mining had a greater impact on my view and I allowed for a greater possibility that RM was SD.

            As a result of the last few days introspection, it seems that the consensus has coalesced around RM not being SD – much to SD’s relief, no doubt.

            For all the previous confusion that has caused him so much grief, SD bears a lot of the responsibility. Where he could provide clarity, he provided mystery, anonymous sourcing, and attacked the motivations of differing opinions.

            The harshness of some of SD’s responses along the way invited harsh attacks against him from the other side of the debate

            In recent days, SD has ventured away from his comfy perch at CTH to participate here at the Nettles-blog. He has provided information that answered some questions, but raised others. But his willingness to discuss, at least, some of these issues is welcome.

            The factor that prompted SD’s visit I suspect is one of credibility.

            The RM = SD controversy puts the issue of sock-puppetry front and center. If SD engaged in this type of sock-puppetry, then SD’s credibility goes down the toilet.

            That the RM = SD controversy was being debated on another blog ( Nettles’ blog) in a rational manner where open discussion is allowed, and not censored, was particularly troublesome.

            The controversy could not be dismissed with perjoratives like “they are a bunch of loonies”, “they are anti-GZ”, “truth is not their agenda” etc, Furthermore there was total silence at CTH.

            So, SD was able to make use of the openness of this blog to try to set the record straight. I would hope that SD has not made use of sock-puppetry.

            At the end of this all, Lorac1 poses an interesting question – “Well, I still wonder if the letter writer was SDC writing to himself.”

            Do the facts, as best we know them, allow, or disallow, an interpretation that the email letter to Nettles, D-man, and Chip was just SD writing to himself.

            • Hooson- You assessment is spot-on yesterday I wrote this:

              Just some quick observations on this matter.
              The whole construct of the e-mail seem only to re-enforce the claims by SD, including things that are not only wrong but probably wrong, and somewhat silly.
              There was no new information in the communication but a regurgitation of past claims.
              The e-mail was shared with people who were influential with others and would assist SD with his quest.
              SD’s answer to me that he only is responding because Nettles is using his material to frames the issues is hogwash that is what all of us do, we may add a thing or two but so what. It appears more of an attempt to frame the issue here as well.

              That was the possibility that I was raising, that it was SDC writing to himself, with the confirmation of his own bias which he wanted the receivers of the e-mail to then assist him, but in a covert manner since they had exclusive information.

              In re-reading the e-mailed several times it is quite clear that the sender and SD share a similar style of writing, sort of disguised but there none the less.

              • Great assessment guys!

                With what I’ve learned since having the email discussed here in August, now leads me to believe Sundance got played. He was used to retaliate against Mark O’Mara.

                Someone close to team defense said that George did tell someone he befriended that it was best to have no more contact. George did this because it was either known or suspected this person wrote to Judge Nelson. This person is a woman.

                Sundance couldn’t have known that then. We are just learning that now. So if this woman is angry with Mark O’Mara for giving George this advice (that by all accounts George is agreeing with and acting upon) she looks to use Sundance’s bias against O’Mara against him.

                I seen this email on Feb. 22nd, Sundance took the bait from the email because she played into everything he posted in his two July 2012 threads. He saw it as confirmation and it would appear did very little to vet it. It appears he did not reach out to family members to confirm. Why do I say this?

                Because after sending it to 3 of us, he posted a new thread within 12 hours of sending it out completely convicting Mark O’Mara. In the thread he tells readers they have to go back 8 months ago to get up to speed.

                You’ve now had an opportunity to read the email. There are a ton of things in it that don’t make sense. The writer says they are a “lay person” and is grateful for one of the commenters at the treehouse’s comments in understanding things. Yet thinks that everything coming out of Mark O’Mara’s mouth is her work. She actually questions O’Mara’s knowledge of the law! An admitted layperson.

                The writer says that she is the one who informed George of the problems with the financial affidavit after he got out of jail in July 2012. Really, George had to be told by the writer in July. George’s own knowledge of what he told his lawyer didn’t ring any bells? This is crazy.

                But Sundance bought it hook, line and sinker and he posted that now infamous Feb. 23rd thread that got me banned. You read the email instructions at top. Do not discuss this with anyone. Yet Sundance wrote here a few days ago, he sent it to us for our opinion. No he didn’t. His actions showed that he found this clear and convincing proof. So much so, he argues with Robert Zimmerman!

                I shared with you the email he sent me after I posted support of Mr. O’Mara. Sundance told me I just don’t get it and he thought that was intentional on my part.

                That told me he thought the email was clear proof of what he had been trying to convey and I was intentionally not believing it. So in essence, I can piss off.


                I knew something was up with Rick Madigan and yes I started to think Sundance actually wrote this email and sent it out to us. But a part of me remained skeptical because why then? It appeared most of us had agreed to disagree on O’Mara and soldier on in the effort to get the railroad stopped.

                Now we have information from someone close to team defense that the writer could be a person who did have contact cut-off and the timing make sense to them.

                The email talks about talking to Orlando lawyers, when I read a few hours later a new commenter by the name of Rick Madigan talking about Orlando lawyers, I thought maybe I should give that email another look. But on Feb. 24th I received an email from someone who told me Sundance uses Rick Madigan as an identity to post.

                Now I’m thinking Rick Madigan is the sender of that heads up.

                Bori, you say the sender and SD are similar and Rick Madigan has posted that she intentionally created the identity to copy Sundance, her favorite blogger.

                • Everything you say makes sense, and the style is similar as I stated. I know that my writing style is influenced by writers that I like like Mike McDaniel, so that is very possible.

                    • LOL, I saw that and thought (not really), Oh No!!! Rick is actually Danny!! ROFL

                      It is evidence you have had some influence on her.

                      Rick brings up a good point. If she is this woman, I’m surprised by that. His posts seemed to portray a deep mistrust and dislike for women. Especially women in a group. But again, he does post, he/she has created this online identity to mirror Sundance. hmmmmm

                    • She would ADORE that I would just go away!

                      Hey Ricky, I am not the one who posts under different IPs here. Nettie has more info through my sending her emails. I am quite content with my online presence. I have no desire to play games or with socks.
                      I would have never kissed my mother with your mouth because my face would have been gone in how you speak about women! THAT is why you were banned from CTH. That is why I was vicious with you! You spoke about my dead Mother sicko!

                      If I chased you away then I suspect Nettles is correct. Because a MAN with the same anatomy as I would not have been chased off so easily.

                      Nettie there are some women who just can not get along with other women. It is lack of bonding with their own Mothers. Or females who have been abused sometimes mirror their abusers behaviors. So the fact RM is so vile against women does not mean she is not she.
                      This person has serious serious issues. At this point I think saying anymore would make me a bully!

                    • Or she wants the topic to stay in the dark because she was the writer.

                      Or she is like many here, finds this topic boring as all get out.

                      She was an awesome supporter of George’s way back when. I hope she posts and clears up our confusion.

                • I agree with that Nettles. It makes sense. SD said that the sender was one of my biggest GZ fans. We all saw RM taking it upon herself to invite you and I back to the CTH. Some made the observation that RM seemed to like me. I know she tried her best to get me to go over to her blog to continue some kind of discussion. Of course that changed later.

                  I wonder who the person is that the emailer said she really liked at the CTH, because they understood? It couldn’t have been me as I was already long gone before the O’Mara bashing ensued.

                  OK, I’m unfortunately going to have to go somewhere I really don’t want to go, but, I suspect that RM may have been posting under a different name back when I was still there. I need to check it out.

                  • That’s what I am thinking too “been posting under a different name back when I was still there”

                    So why would they need to change their online name? Perhaps to hide themselves from O’Mara and George.

                    If George told her, I can’t talk to those who actively posts on blogs because it’s just too dangerous that something inadvertent might get posted, that may be when she decided to stop posting.

                    In her mind, perhaps this is the lifelong contract she signed to never discuss George online.

                    In the email, she is thankful that others (treehouse contributors) realize she is gone and hope O’Mara notices she is not posting anymore.

                    Then, according to the email, on Feb. 19th, she is told I can’t talk to you anymore. I don’t know if she was given the reason but I am told that team defense suspected that she wrote the Judge.

                    She has to create a new identity to post, one George doesn’t know about or right away he’d know what she is doing.

                    Sundance did share with me when forwarding me Rick’s emails that his first post on the treehouse blog was January 1st. I never saw this identity before but on the day I got banned, he was there with loads of information that mirrored Sundance.

                    • Nettie. I personally have not excluded “Ken” as being the sender yet. In fact he closed down his gravatar account.

                    • That doesn’t surprised me given his stance that he’s been out there more than he would like. He was ok posting in a crowd but wasn’t comfortable with others knowing who he was. He said as much here to us all.

                      All possibilities are on the table. I will say that when called to answer if he was a family member he didn’t hesitate. His posts did raise flags, that’s why I suspected it. The flag was being a family member. I thought he was Robert Jr. You don’t know unless you ask, and even when answered how the heck do you really know? It’s up to each person to decide if its valid or not.

                      I trust that was Ken. If I get any indication that it was not, I’ll share it.

                    • I’d love to hear from froggieleggs because I do think this identity fits a number of the bill.

                      She was a frequent commenter at the treehouse and then disappeared. I’ve been trying to find comments at the treehouse asking about where she went. I haven’t found them yet.

                      Froggieleggs posted here for the 1st time on Sept. 13th. I recognized her from the treehouse and thought nothing of it.

                      Regarding this email, Froggieleggs posted a request not to give her a flashlight, she wants to remain in the dark. OK, some do.

                      Froggieleggs, am I barking up the wrong tree?

                    • Here is why Ken is suspect to me. Go to RTs. Last year he posted about having a motion filed. Let me go find it!

                    • Nettles I am posting here because there is no reply above.

                      Danny is correct. There are some women who just naturally hate and don’t get along with other women. I’ve met some in my life that far prefer the company of males because woman are just too damn dumb for them.

                    • That’s been my experience as well. Some women just cannot tolerate other women.

                      I’m feeling a little better about Sundance now. When I was seriously thinking he was Rick, I felt bad for his female admins. Perhaps he does share Rick’s opinions of the female admin. pack at the treehouse but then again perhaps not.

                  • She that is what I am saying mini,you were gone but this person used numerous sock accounts prior in 2012. This was while you still were concerned about MOM.

                    Go to Dmans site. That may help you figure it out. I have connected @ least four possible socks. But 2 still posted @ CTH after you left. Two did not and went to Dmans. This was before this blog was opened.

                    • As soon as I started posting at Dma’s site, RM posted some quotes of mine from while I was still at the TH. He asked if that was the same minpin. I answered that yes it was the very same minpin, and that that was back long before much more info. started coming to light. SD had thrown out the info. about the paypal account, and said something about O’Mara knowing everything about the paypal account balances even while the first bond hearing was going on. The jailhouse tapes don’t fit with O’Mara having known about the amount collected. Even before the tapes, there was no proof at all that O’Mara knew what he was being accused of having known.

                      BTW, my gravatar changed from a yellow thingy to a green thingy when I blew my computer up and had to sign back into everything everywhere. I don’t know why it changed, but I didn’t change anything. I know you are not saying that I did anything.

                    • I posted a long comment. So head there. It will hopefully enlighten you. I am unsure whybthose things change. But I have mine set up much different then nettie . If you do not have a gravatar account profile pic set it may change. I am unsure though. I always set my own photo to my gravatar. So when I sign in it shows it. But if I would not sign into my account and use just my email (some wordpress blogs require an account. It is setting option for a blog owner) then I would be given a gravatar similiar to yours. But my blog I set to faces and no gravatar sign in needed. So if you posted @ my blog it would be different anyways. I have face setting as my option.

                    • A sock account is an account created by an individual that usually is known online by another username. The purpose of a sock account is to trick the online community you post @ to believe you are someone else. The reasons are various. Some people create socks because they are banned. Some create socks to flame other users. Some to defend their positions and opinions on their main account. Usually a sock account is used for nefarious purposes.

                      Detecting one can take some time. Usually they have similar writing styles, use of words, and also communicate with the same group they usually from their main account. Sometimes people create socks to support an opposing opinion to interrupt threads or to move threads so it is difficult for people to stay on topics.

                    • Thanks, Danny ……. two questions
                      How do you get a sock account?
                      Don’t admins know the IP address of posters?

                    • 1. By creating another account
                      2. There are ways to hide your IP. It is called a proxy. Proxies can be traced most times especially if someone does not know what theyare doing. But it takes more work. Besides IP only give a webmaster limited info.

                    • YOU: By creating another account

                      Do you mean like another WP account? Can you have more than one?

                    • Yes &Yes. Or a person can not have a WP and just sign in using a totally fake email and another username every time. But a webmaster does have optional setting like moderation or only commenting if a user has a WP. WP does not verify emails for blog owners. But a blog owner can verify an email through other means. As a webmaster I set to moderate first comments only. My stas allow me to see IP, email, & username.

                    • For a WP and other sign in features yes. But if someone comments just with a screen name and email no. WP does not verify the

                • Then she would have no reason to come out of hiatis on that account after 5 years (her statement) stick around in support, post randomly, sign up with the same name @ RTs, make that comment here on THAT topic, then delete a gravatar account after the pay pal topic.

                  BTW. My comments on the paypal & issue with accounting were not to imply there was illegal ongoings on anyones part. I have gone over that numerous times. In fact SD is wrong in his assessment that MOM took the case because of the paypal. MOM let 20, 000 available after MOM was transfered the funds so they could use it at their disposal. Magill testified all funds were accounted for. MOM wrote a letter to Lester along with bank statements. So there is no having to stay in the dark!
                  I have that filing on another device. Maybe you could point to that letter Nettie?
                  I brought up the paypal and who advised GZ to move the funds as a motive for some to be pissed @ MOM because they were cut off of communication and access. For anyone close to GZ prior it could be easy for SD to rope them in with his position on MOM.
                  Even those who were @ arms length. If Taffe is any indication on why MOM offered advise then who can blame MOM for wanting control? Ken can not deny he advised GZ to keep the volume quite. If you listen to the calls between SZ & GZ they more or less 1. wanted him cared for while awaiting for bail 2. Were worried about security 3. Were concerned about how they would survive in hiding 4. Keeping the funds private so they would not have to a bondsmans because location would be compromised.
                  It was MOM who had to talk them into the surety of getting bond IF they have collateral under a licenced bondsman.
                  I believe the conversations between Ken & MOM were because he did have access @ the time of any finacial filings.MOM did say he should have been more diligent about the funds in hindsight knowing the family was concerned about saftey and that was the cause of them keeping him @ arms length!
                  All monies had to be linked through GZs bank account from paypal. Ken was just accessing it to relay info and to change it over to SZ. Since the money WAS all accounted for Kens advice was not illegal but he is the one who advised GZ wrongly about keeping it private, not MOM. However, I am sure MOM had a stern talking to about how he must be aware of any and all concerns because well he is the atty! It was after this need of a second bond hearing and another round in jail GZ knew where to put his trust.

                  It must be easy for friends and family to be critical of MOM for not keeping them privy. But GZ was the one who got bad advise and suffered for it. Look @ Taffe, the Ostermans, his own father, and even RZjr, now wife. If anyone @ this point wants to bitch about MOMs decisions for GZs best interest then they are quite selfish.
                  I understand GZs parents suffered for this as well. I also understand the lack of trust as a parent one would have having to give up control. I think some supporters took advantage of their limited opinions. I think RZjr. @ times also got caught up in the CTH agenda and the limelight.
                  I also think GZ has more reasons to be privy and more careful who he calls a supporter. He lost MOM. Lost his wife and very good caring friends for bad choices. These people put their lives on hold for him. Some seem to want more then others.
                  I could only imagine a 3rd of the emails and calls MOM got. Now that I saw this email and the uncomfortable obsession even some supporters have. It has for the first time concerned me.

                  • I haven’t been able to finish reading this entire post, I have to come back but I did know exactly where that link to the financials was on the court site


                    It was posted on the court site exactly one year before we would all hear the verdict in this case, July 13th.

                    However, unknown to all of us at the time, O’Mara informed the court in May with this letter and the financials. So as we watched on June 1st, both the Judge and the state had been informed, not through their investigation but rather through a full disclose by George and his counsel.

                    I will come back later this afternoon to finish reading your post. Thanks!

                    • Back then during the bond revoke I spoke a lot about the pay pal on various news outlet forums. The State knew during the first bond hearing there was a fund. They would have had to legally file to get access to the fund and GZs bank accounts. They can not just access through a fishing expedition. And they were unaware of who was running it. GZ was in jail so….
                      They MONITORED the jailhouse calls and were already aware of the fund prior to the bond hearing.
                      They could and should have produced those findings during the hearing. MOM was even willing to allow Lester to question GZ if Bernie did not cross examine at the second bond hearing. Why did Lester NOT want to question GZ because they planned on getting SZ on perjury @ the advice of Lester in open court.

                    • This is a reply to Danny as Danny has no reply button.

                      Way back toward the beginning BDLR did in fact provide some sort of bank statements from GZ’s bank account. I remember seeing the pages and pages of transactions. BDLR started monitoring the bank account, with the help of one particular person at the bank from the day before GZ was even arrested. I had questioned the legality of that back to the time when I saw it. GZ hadn’t even been arrested for anything yet, but the prosecution was already gathering information about his account obviously without his permission. I’m certain someone can find those documents. It may be on the court website.

                    • In many cases law enforcement does not need your permission to go rummaging through your bank accounts, although they need cause.

                      Not only that, but, your bank is obligated to inform the government if it seems that you are involved in a suspicious activity in your account. They have to inform the government, and furthermore, they are not allowed to inform you that they have done so.

        • Pristine. I love that. It’s like fresh fallen Canadian snow. When will you know that everything is 100% pristine?

          I am loving every minute of my high speed. As to starting my own blog, there is no way in all of earth that will ever happen, but, thanks to those suggesting that. I couldn’t come remotely close to your standards Nettles. I like staying right here.

          As to who the emailer is, SD stumped me with the hint that it was a big fan of mine. If my guess is correct, I would never have looked at it that way. Quasi stalking would have been more appropriate.

        • WOO HOOO! Happy to hear this Nettles! Had to get this far down the thread and my mind is spinning. After reading, I have a guess and only a guess who it might be, so I wont accuse anyone out right. I did miss a few weeks last Aug/Sept so I not sure what all I did Miss. I know when I got back, reading at the CTH, I didn’t see MinPin posting and I did ask about her a couple times. LOL The whole RM thing somehow this whole thing flew over my head, but going back an rereading, I remb some of the convocations. I also remb SD calling out to a couple people, multi times to shoot him an email. One was who I am wondering about. Hmmm

  7. Pingback: WHO IS THE REAL RICK MADIGAN? Updated | Railroading of an American Hero

  8. Pingback: Update: Who is the real Rick Madigan? | Railroading of an American Hero

  9. I find this discussion about getting information and how it is used fascinating myself. I also have heard from a lot of you, this stuff is boring and of no consequence.

    I’m going to move the topic onto it’s own thread so those who do want to delve into it more can freely discuss it without frustrating those who don’t care to hear any more about it. Thank you to everyone for your honest feedback.

    I hope to be home tomorrow where I can have access to more of the software I need to create such a thread. Until then, please be patient and ignore posts that are of no interest to you. Thx.

    • I’ll join you on a new thread Nettles.

      Does anyone know what court the Kruidbos lawsuit was filed at, and who the judge is? Also, does anyone have access to the documents filed by Corey’s office asking for the case to be dismissed because she supposedly has immunity. It would seem to me that the state document filed would be posted at the appropriate court website.

      • Duval County Clerk of Courts
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        Case 16-2013-CA-007407-XXXX-MA
        Department Circuit Civil Division CV-G
        Case Status OPEN File Date 8/1/2013 12:10:44 PM
        Judge Name HADDOCK, LAWRENCE P.

        Name / DOB / DL / ID # Party Type
        Race / Sex Address

        Name Address Type
        White, Wesley Forrest [redacted]
        Fernandina Beach, FL 320353134 Private Attorney
        Hackett, Leonard Thomas [redacted]
        Jacksonville, FL 322166123 Private Attorney

        Date Description Assessed Paid Balance
        08/05/2013 SUMMONS($10/ea) $10.00 $10.00 $0.00
        08/05/2013 SUMMONS($10/ea) $10.00 $10.00 $0.00
        08/01/2013 CIR/GENERALCIVIL 3/1/2012 $401.00 $401.00 $0.00
        08/05/2013 SUMMONS($10/ea) $10.00 $10.00 $0.00

        Line Count Effective
        Entered Description Image
        1 — 8/1/2013
        2 — 8/1/2013
        3 — 8/1/2013
        4 — 8/1/2013
        CASE FEES PAID: $401.00 ON RECEIPT NUMBER 1896776
        5 — 8/2/2013
        6 — 8/2/2013
        7 — 8/2/2013
        8 — 8/5/2013
        CASE FEES PAID: $30.00 ON RECEIPT NUMBER 1898200
        9 — 9/4/2013
        10 — 9/4/2013
        11 — 10/2/2013

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