Home » Uncategorized » Open Thread – Oct. 22nd

Open Thread – Oct. 22nd

Open Discussion


241 thoughts on “Open Thread – Oct. 22nd

  1. tell us what you really think, SD

    sundance says:
    October 20, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Our hands are not tied, and I would not use the George Zimmerman case as a representation for concern.

    The prosecution of George Zimmerman was specifically created to generate $$ for the scheme team, and then co-opted to send a larger message toward non-blacks intended to place fear in their mind about defending themselves.

    What everyone should remember is that you have every right to defend yourself. Period. Including the lawful use of deadly force.

    Don’t let the insufferable stupidity of the Zimmerman case impact your decision making or create that moment of doubt which could lead to your own injury.

    IMHO George Zimmerman was a fool of his own making. An avid and espoused Democrat, he could not see the way to defend himself AFTER the shooting because he lived in a similarly detached psychological bubble.

    His limp-wristed approach, or acquiescence with misplaced trust to the system, led him to make some really stupid decisions including his chosen attorney and defense approach tactic; which only compounded his issues.

    If he had been more forceful in his own advocacy, and demanded the same from anyone who represented him, he would NEVER have been arrested, because there simply was no basis for the arrest. His poor decision making after the night of 2/26/12 compounded his own issues.

    I doubt there is anyone here who would have made the same willfully blind mistakes.

    Defend yourself without fear, and God forbid you ever need to shoot someone in self defense, keep defending yourself -and your decision- after the encounter.

    Appeasement, apology and/or acquiescence does not work and should never be tried. That is the lesson from the Zimmerman example.

    • I hadn’t thought about SD in a few weeks and then Mimi mentioned him today and now here he is again. How can he come across as smart and astute and then write crap like this above? Why didn’t I see how flaky he was earlier?

      George Zimmerman’s arrest was beyond his control. Had he been more forceful in defending himself, likely would have gotten him arrested sooner. The political machine was put in motion when the Governor decided to stick his nose in. I’d like to think the Governor just wanted an investigation but that he chose a prosecutor known for playing games with discovery and overcharging, tells me he, like the City Manager, just wanted an arrest and a public trial to show everyone what the actual evidence was.

      George Zimmerman in his choice of attorneys and their strategy to win an acquittal was the right one. No one can argue with results. George Zimmerman and his team got the acquittal.

      I watched Sundance actually sabotage the efforts of George Zimmerman and try to leave him defenseless by calling for no donations to the defense fund and continually trying to undermine his attorney.

      Results matter. Implementing strategy, like the government shutdown, with no hopes of attaining your goal is incredibly flawed. I wouldn’t want these people on my team when trying to reach a result. They shoot themselves in their own foot.

      Had Sundance been more successful in getting people to be suspicious of GZ lawyer (and its clear now the reason was only because he perceives O’Mara as a Democrat), he was willing to watch his “guy” go to jail to prove his point. I actually think Sundance at times, wanted GZ found guilty so he could say “I told you so”.

      Twisted and stupid, imo. Yet when he focussed on the Scheme Team or the prosecution, he was effective. I do now regret my participation at the site and having to do it over again would have stuck with the wonderful crowd on facebook, TalkLeft, Stately Manor and Diwataman’s blog.

      George is truly sorry Trayvon lost his life. So am I. There is nothing wrong or limp-wristed about that.

      • Good reply Nettles. Isn’t it interesting to see how SD confirms that he really was using GZ in promoting his own agenda, and can’t find it in himself to say MOM and West did a great job in their defense. I agree with your thoughts that SD would have been happy to see GZ convicted, just to prove he was RIGHT. What a self righteous, hate-filled egotist.

        • Full Disclosure: I am somewhat biased on my view of Sundance after he came here wishing my biopsy came back as cancerous so karma would teach me a lesson for holding an opinion he didn’t agree with. 🙂

          He was out of luck again!

          • And I just want add my congrats, Nettles – I’m so glad your reports were all good!! That was wonderful news, I won’t wish anything bad on SD for his callousness, but we sure got a good picture of how his mind works with that horrible karma statement.

              • This is not the best of the news :). I found myself a new rheumatologist this week 🙂

                The last person was simply horrible and I should not write here what I called him to my doctor!! It is a very long saga, and I am simply happy to find someone else to take over managing my arthritis.

                The stress test was horrible because it took hours and hours. Getting the all clear is extremely good news for a lot of reasons.

                  • I think he is on the right track but I am not sure that I really want the outcome.. or rather what will be the next in way of medication to try and suppress my arthritis.

                    What thrills me is that he is not rude, but is a very nice man who has a sense of humour. He immediately responded when I said I do not use the “p’ word. He tried to get me to shake hands, and I declined, then explained why I do not like doing that. I think it was all a part of his assessment. The best news of all was that he knew my former rheumatologist and respects him as a colleague and that makes a very real difference because he accepted the work of the other doctor. On top of that I gave him some copies of bone scan reports. He read them and then made his own assessment based upon the physical examination. That is all I have ever asked of a doctor.

                    I wrote a blog post on my own blog setting out my battles over the past almost 30 years. It has been one very long battle. I am almost at the end of the road right now and feel like a battle has almost been won. That battle is getting recognition of what is causing so much discomfort!!

                    • Bless you! And I know what you mean. Its like confirmation your not crazy, your pain is real and ok so where do we go from here. Had that for YEARS with pain in my neck and come and go numbness in arms. Long story but due to fixing to have surgery on my leg in 2006, already prep for surgery, the anesthesiologist asked if I ever had numbness, I said yes mostly when I work on the computer. He said I will be right bk. They canceled my surgery- upset I said I don’t have to do all my wk on computer- lol. So dr ordered full MRI of body, My c5-c6 disc had pressed nerve root completely off and was pressing on my spinal cord! Had emerg surg on neck and AMAZING~ Only thing that hurt was the butterfly taped that pulled neck down a bit. Dr told me if hadn’t done the MRI and went ahead with surgery, I could possibly been paralyzed for life! For years had been told, prob just arthritis. I didn’t care what was if it was correct. Wasn’t. LOL Arthur has set up living quarters in other places 🙂 Hugs and well wishes~~

                    • The issue is one that is actually quite perplexing. Your issues are very different from my own issues.

                      Several years ago I had full body scans and the inflammation showed up everywhere. Actually, little to no inflammation showed up when I had the very first body scan. At the same time I went through years of changes in my blood tests.

                      What these tests indicate is that I have at the serological level, MCTD or Mixed Connective Tissue Disease. I can live with that description. I was told I could go towards Lupus or to RA. One indicator for RA is the Rheumatoid Factor or RF. I had that test done many times. It started off with a low count, then began to rise to about 39, and then prior to a more definite diagnosis it rose to 63. At that stage I was already taking Plaquenil on a daily basis. The diagnosis became “early RA”. Basically, that means I have no bone damage which is a good thing. Years of medication using Ibuprofen and similar has meant that the inflammation was not doing any damage.

                      I have neck problems. I get tingling in the hands when lying down at night. This appears to be something to do with the ulnar nerve in my arm… long story short I have had an issue ever since I fractured my elbow when I crashed to the floor on my back after a roller skating session at WPAB and that is another story in itself.

                      In my background there are injuries from accidents and of course multiple sprained ankles. What changed is the time I take to recover from injury.

                      The more I read about symptoms of RA, the more I recognize that doctors do not recognize the earliest signs or symptoms of RA and therefore they tend to do nothing. I guess I was lucky that I had been on the NSAIDs for something like 30 years prior to the RA taking off.

                      My neck problems were caused by a car accident :). Most nights are ok but some nights, well, let’s not go there.

                      I have the bone scans that indicate that I have arthritis, but the issue was whether or not it wa OA or RA or as one doctor tried to imply that is was nothing more than fibromyalgia, and his advice was to go exercise and don’t come back, and that was not the last doctor who abused me because I did not want to take Endep.

                      If it only was a pressed nerve then having that resolved would make me happy, but so far that has not been the conclusion of any doctor. Not even in my lower back has that evidence been indicated.

                      Whatever the cause, the thing I hate most is the sore butt!! 🙂 Hugs to you too, and pleased to know that you did get a solution.

      • I have said many times while Sundance has done some good such as the FOIA requests, his moronic crusade against ” the pinky ring wearing progressive” caused significant compromise to George’s defense and provided Baldy plenty of fodder to flap his arms about

      • When I read SDs comment and know his position on what he believes GZ should have done I picture Taffe, Sonner and Ulrig. Could you imagine?
        I personally would have tuned out and maybe hope the SOB went to jail. It would have taken much convincing that an arrogant loud mouth jerk, that seems not to have any remorse actually shot a kid in self defense. I do not want arrogant jerks representing any type of self defense law, EVER! There is a big difference in being arrogant and being confident.
        I believe GZ was confident of the process. Not much you can do AFTER you are arrested besides prove you are innocent and not a cold blooded murderer regardless if you are Democrat or Republican. It seems SD wants to place blame on GZ for being arrested in the first place.

        When the government targets an American I could give two $hits if he is white, black, hispanic, young or old, Democrat or Republican. The Governent does not care who they target. Sundance has much more in common with the Scheme Team then he ever would admit.
        My issue with Sundance has always been not what he does but how he does it.
        How someone achieves their goal is more important to me then if they ever achieve it at all.
        I said it MONTHS ago this was about Sundance being “right” about MOM. He was wrong, now he has to talk crap on GZ to seem right. The only way to do that is blame it on GZ being a Democrat.

        What is his purpose to “expose” the people he had all this time? They still are in their professional and political positions, he still sits behind his keyboard spewing govermental hate and conspiracy, connecting the proverbial dots of political affiliations. For what? The 1st Amendent only takes one so far. You can buy FOIAs but after that what is he doing? Is he coordinating marches against the corruption in Florida? Is he holding school districts accountable for failing his states Youth? Is he forcing his state reps. to strengthen laws to protect self defense laws? Is he confronting his own community in Florida at meetings? Is this not what the Tea Party movement he supports is all about?
        I think I know a thing or two about advocating. And throwing a few bad apples into the bushel rots the whole bunch. Just because some police, administrators, magistrates, judges, lawyer, reporter, editors, etc. are corrupt does not mean everyone affiliated is. In fact those on the inside are more useful @ times. SDs problem is he generalizes wayyyyy tooooo much by sticking everyone in neat catergories because it makes him feel good and in control, and most important it makes him feel
        “right.” Ya, know living in that bubble he accuses GZ of living in.

      • I have to say that SD does have a point. GZ did not get a lawyer fast enough. I have no problem with O’Mara, but he didn’t have a lawyer at all in the beginning. He first responded to the media blitz about him by thinking he could just talk to people and tell them what really happened and they’d believe him and all would be well.

        I don’t think he even realized what kind of monster was after him until it was too late. The only reason he went to the doctor the next day was to get a doctor’s note for missing work. It wasn’t for legal defense.

        I disagree with the insults SD gives George.

      • It sounds like the people at the Treehouse were comrades because they were AGAINST the same people (the scheme team) but weren’t FOR George. In fact, they probably saw him as just another liberal Democrat.

        SunDance wrote an article telling people to never do business with a Democrat. I posted a disagreement in the comments. He didn’t respond. It’s important to know which people are for you and not just for what you’re for or against what you’re against. Recognize your confidants from your comrades and constituents.

        Nettles, it sounds like you were for GZ and among people who were just against the Scheme Team.

  2. I can see that some of the known race baiters are being questioned more closely after the slew of lies that got exposed in the Zimmerman case.

    A former member of the NAACP is calling into question the remarks made by Kendrick Johnson’s parents and lawyers. When you have a half hour to spare, listen to her findings in her investigation of the case posted on this blog. She also participates in the comments and gets the expected blow-back. As she said truth and justice knows no color.


  3. Heads Up, it looks like Captain is going to start posting here under his original name again, David. He emailed me an update on the Kruidbos case that there will be a hearing on that case at 11am on December 18th. (That’s my birthday – 50th) Should be easy for me to remember!

    I guess they will be taking up Corey’s motion to throw the case out because she doesn’t give permission to be sued?

    • Thanks for the update, it is interesting about Corey giving permission as she has 2 superiors, the State’s Attorney- Bondi and the Governor-Scott who can override her decision.

    • Interesting. Wonder what the outcome will be? This is a case about wrongful termination. Funny how she is claiming immunity under a prosecutor and not Floridas at will employer law but nothing suprises me she charged GZ with 2nd degree murder! I think though by her making an immunity claim she opened a can of worms she will wish stayed closed. I think she made the claim thinking she can expose Ben & Wes for wrongdoing….. this way she can save her career.If she claims immunity as a prosecutor she can continue to discuss “evidence” against GZ and how Ben interfered with her rights as a prosecutor and state evidence. Do you really think she is concerned about tax payers paying for her mistakes? She cares about her image. She wants Bondis spot. I hope Bondi is forced to testify.
      I think Wes stepped out because he will have to and is willing to testify. Seems the Judge thinks Corey has a claim and wants to hear from Ben. This could be a very good thing for GZ in sanctions against the State.
      Anyone know who Bens new atty. is?

      • Danny, don’t now about Florida but 3 other states that I have lived in, government employees, even if the state is is an at will employers have different rules when it comes to their employees. They are not able to hire or fire like a private business could. So that may have had something to do with why she used that defense.

        • Actually bori Jeb Bush back in 2000 made sweeping changes with what is called “Service First” It was signed into law in May 2001 became active in June or July 2001. It makes civil servants “at will” employees. You can read more here:

          I do think Corey can file immunity I just am looking @ it from an the reason why she chose “immunity” and decided not argue against the claim of retaliation.
          She is not immune if she retaliated.
          The Judge may throw out absolute immunity and give Ben a shot at qualified immunity? Ben is filing wrongful termination under Florida 92.57; termination of employment of a witness prohibited. There is a clearly established law. Which is required against a prosecutor for a civil rights claim.
          The claim is that Ben was subpoenaed and had to testify and that the firing was retalitory, against the law. That will be up to Ben to prove. Next, the Judge will have to look @ whether a reasonable prosecutor would have known they were violating a right. Not that Cory knew, but if a reasonable atty. would have known.

          I still would think even though Ben is a civil servant, and Corey a Prosecutor anti~discrimination laws apply. Retaliation is discrimination. Ben is claiming had he not testified he still would be working for Corey. He is protected by ant~discrimination laws which include whistle blower laws which state “Any person applying for work or working for a state agency (as defined in 216.011, F.S.) who has been retaliated against for disclosing protected information may file a complaint.”

        • That’s right. Texas is an at will law, but teachers have special protection. An administrator can’t just fire a teacher without being able to show just cause.

    • Hoping for a good birthday lol. Oh that was a special day for once and also my ex mother in law birthday. I will think of you forever on that date. My brain wired funny like that! I was 50 in Jan, so your just a wee sista under me lol Been pretty good so far lol

  4. Christi O’Connor, who doesn’t seem to have gotten the news that the TV Zimmerman is supposed to have stolen from Shellie’s family was never missing in the first place, is supposedly finally going to post her big exclusive expose about that “domestic incident” in Lake Mary.

    “Later today, I will post my investigation into the domestic dispute and into the other trouble George has gotten himself into since July 13th…”


    • unitron: LOL, I wonder what kind of real investigation O’Connor does BESIDES using the internet, phone, blogs r newspapers? WHY would she think anyone would put validity into her opinions/paraphrased interviews w/SZ’s family because no one from the GZ family will give her the time of day?

      She irks me to death when LEAVING out FACTS that don’t support her bull chit opinion as you pointed out, “the missing furniture/TV that wasn’t really missing!”

        • Nettles – I WISH many of those that are irresponsible would be sued, anything that would make them act more responsibility, which isn’t their agenda.

          If your comment get through moderation, I too will leave one. She probably has a handful of GZ haters that follow her blog that never were interested in the facts of the case or the verdict!

        • Note that Shellie called police at 2:10pm on Sept. 9th and at 3:20pm Christi had a date with HLN. She appeared on their 7pm show with the photos of the broken iPad that Shellie had taken pictures of before police took it and the photo of the red mark on her father’s nose. The mark, according to the police report is believed to have been caused by Wes Robinson getting in between George and Dave. Yet O’Connor still reports GZ hit Shellie’s dad. She goes further to make the allegation that the police are letting GZ away with that assault.

          • You might also recall, Christi and Shellie posted on Sept. 8th a little more of Shellie’s interview she’d given on August 28th. In the interview, how opportune, Shellie said “I don’t know what he’s capable of” and then the next day……Shellie with camera and Christi with exclusive.

      • …as you pointed out, “the missing furniture/TV that wasn’t really missing!”

        I only mentioned the television and said nothing about furniture.

    • They all moved around so much I am not surprised someone thought something was missing. Especially after the whole DV fiasco. Really though out of everything how could you miss a big ass TV? Would you not want to ensure the proper distribution and list of ownership when you are the one filing for divorce? They had plenty of time to think it through. And it is a TV for crying out loud! I would have just put it in the divorce decree instead of calling cops! Better yet, take the TV, see ya later!

      • Danny ~ RE: TV fiasco. The thing is, SOMEONE in the Dean family OR SZ/friends moved the TV to the different location it would seem, since moving is such a pain in the butt I wouldn’t think GZ would bother moving a TV that didn’t belong to him especially if it belonged to one of the Dean’s.

        STILL WAITING ON PUBLIC APOLOGY TO GZ FROM MD on the ludicrous accusation made against GZ! I know, I know, hell would freeze over first.

        • The Pondering Observer – I agree, emotions run high during divorce as MOM explained & we all know since most of us have had friends r family members that divorce. Imo, divorce can bring out the worse behavior in a couple, sad the MEDIA reported it, even reported Nationally.

          I agree, it wasn’t about missing property, anger got the best of SZ’s mother, but GZ suffered the repercussions from the accusations with yet another negative story putting him in a negative light.

  5. Interesting article by THOMAS SEWELL. My favorite AA commentator, Thomas Sowell is an American economist, social theorist, political philosopher, and author. He is currently the Rose and Milton Friedman Senior Fellow on Public Policy at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University.
    Stop following race hustlers!

    Often these Asian immigrants arrive not only with very little money, but also very little knowledge of English. They start out working at low-paid jobs but working so many hours, often at more than one job, that they are able to put a little money aside.

    After a few years, they have enough money to open some little shop, where they still work long hours, and still save their money, so that they can afford to send their children to college. Meanwhile, these children know that their parents not only expect, but demand, that they make good grades.

    You don’t hear about racial “leaders” like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson among Asians or Asian-Americans. Here and there you may see some irresponsible academics peddling that line in the classroom — some of whom are of Asian ancestry, since no race of human beings is completely lacking in fools.

    But they do not get the same attention, or draw the same following, as race hustlers operating in black or Hispanic communities. By and large, Asian youngsters rise and fly.


  6. On another note….i need to vent. I have been very busy working on a school district issue concerning the 4th Amendment and school issued lap tops that have become an issue in my township and state actually.

    The 4th Amendment issue just came to my attention through another parent as we were discussing cyber schooling. Being the forefront of cyber schooling my state has had quite a few court cases involving schools spying on students and privacy violations. We have cases involving unreasonable searches concerning cell phones and “sexting.” For those unfamiliar with sexting, it is when minors use technology for “show me yours & I will show you mine.” Most times these photos were never intended to be viewed by anyone but the sender and receiver. Once schools began cell phone policies they would confinscate the phones and search them under the Supreme Courts ruling of “reasonable suspicion.” Some districts would say the student could have cheated, or used school policy of “school distruption” to search the phones. However, the ruling also states school administration can not fish for information on the device that was not the initial intention on going in the device.
    For instance they legally can go in the phone if they suspect cheating to find if the student was cheating. But they overstepped their rights many times and began getting sued for 4th amendment violations. It began really being talked about with sexting. Teachers would incidently find these photos or texts when they took the phones to search. They began using the mandated reporting laws to contact the police. The police would charge kids as young as 11 with “distribution of child pornography.” One kid now has to register as a sex offender. He was 16 his girlfriend 16. The photos were never shared with anyone, never supposed to be seen by anyone but them. It was an incidental finding by a teacher who took his phone when it rang in class. There are many more cases now with school issued laptops that kids take home.
    Obviously I am concerned about these policies or lack of because when is it okay for a school to remotely access your childs school issued laptop while in their own home? When is it okay for the school to search a computer used by a student while at home? What if there are incidental findings if the school needs to service the laptop? What if a student uses an external device on an upload? What if it is not even school property, is it a school issue?
    For those unaware, mandated reporting is a double edged sword in public education and healthcare. It was created to protect abused and neglected children and for specific professionals to be immune from being sued. They do not need to investigate just suspect abuse or neglect. In fact mandated reporters can be fined if they do not report suspected abuse. They are to be trained in signs of abuse and what to report.
    But it can and has been used by some reporters as an excuse to rid their schools of ” undesirable students” It has been used against parents who are using their substantive rights for proper education.
    For instance up until last year my state required schools to report truancy not only to the magistrate but also to Cps (child protective services) as educational neglect. Cps stopped taking those cases because it was being misused under mandating reporting laws. 99.9% of the time the schools did not make an intervention plan prior to reporting, and most times the parents were actively working on IEP or the students were covered under federal disability laws. If there is educational neglect true cases of it anyways, there is other abuse not just educational. 99.9% were mandated reporters saving face for the No child left behind stats. Schools need to report attendence for the law and need it for testing. The truancy laws are enforced @ the same time state standards are required. Those age groups were being reported the most. So the schools ate now responsible and magistrates are catching on too.

    As for the sexting issue? Discussing sex is taboo in America. I believe it is a natural thing and at some point kids get curious. You can be the most open parent and they will push the bar because they seen it on TV the internet, hear about it from peers. There is a peer pressure issue. Just because I as a parent ignore this natrual thing does not mean it will not happen. If not in person maybe over the interwebs. Which is more dangerous? Which one would I prefer? None really. But it does not stop it. By the time they are curious enough no matter how uncomfortable you are they know more then you think they know. And technology has made your job as a parent a lil more difficult. Some are willing to treat a natural curiosity as a crime, and sometimes force you as a parent into even more unfamiliar, uncomfortable territory.
    I am speaking about minors and how some of us expect our wisdom and knowledge to somehow be passed along in our genes. I am sure we all in some way have little Einstiens. But for real, we do not. Even the most well raised child has made major mistakes. It is a part of life.

    My position is we do need to protect youth because you never know whos hands these photos can get in. We need to teach them to be a little paronoid.Expression has it limits in public and even now what they expect is “private” can so easily become public.
    If a case like arises where something private becomes public in school then sure charge the one sharing it child pornography. There is a natural curiosity of sex. To punish a kid as a sex offender is a little crazy. We should teach them the dangers, and not overuse serious laws that are meant for adults who are targeting children.
    Branding a teenager as a pedophile for having a photo of his girlfriend that she shared with him,who is the same age defeats the law in the first place. His life is ruined. He is a felon. Same goes for two 11 yr. olds! Really, do they even know what pornography is? Is that the message we want to send to curious teens? Utilize the phenomenon as a way to bridge the gap and teach youth of the dangers.

    We may be putting them in the position to act like adults much sooner. If we expect school to be like a job. If we expect them to start thinking about senior projects in 6th grade, to get some job experience by 18, and tolerate every crazy social fad that tests their personal beliefs in the name of equality, they may as well play house! I know if I was a teen in these days I would certainly expose the double standard! I would be kicked out for testing those standards.

    I blame parents. They allow schools to position themselves to teach morals and social norms on the outside of school when it does not affect or disrupt the school enviorment which is the only legal power these school have to control. Your kids go to school to learn to read, and write. That is it!
    Schools are suppose to educate youth. Youth should be able to trust educators. Parents should be able to trust educators. When student and parent feel violated then they will defend themselves.
    Schools are nothing more then a government extention. Admins. now believe the students are there to service the schools needs.
    As for my above concerns? Seems it hit far to close to home for me. This parent told me something I can not let slide. I requested an internal investigation be done. Here is the story behind the vent.

    The parent took her childs laptop to be serviced. Her child is enrolled in the districts home cyber program.
    The computer when online is always connected to the homes internet connection. Off school hours her child used the laptop for social networking (policy allows this as long as the student has good grades). Get this though….the whole reason her child was in the program is because the school failed to protect the child after numerous complaints about bullying. It became physical and she pulled him out and put him in the districts cyber program. Our child went through the same thing. I was the one who suggested she do it. We had no issues just hated the interface.
    A few weeks after getting the laptop serviced a State Trooper knocked on their door wanting to question her son. It was for distribution of child pornography! The report was from a mother in another school district. The kids knew each other through social networking. Her son and the girl both 12.
    Here the kids commited the felony of” I will show you mine, if you show me yours.” They sent each other a photo over Skype. (Why our district has lap tops with web cams I do not know. They do not offer real time classes) Both sent the photo and deleted it, this is what the kids stated to police and investigation proved that is what happened. Supposedly the mother of the girl saw these photos in her daughters Skype history when she left her Skype open. So the boys parents became suspicious. The school district did not make the report. There were two police departments involved, both kids said the photos were deleted, the report was made in the girls township, and how this mother found the photo did not jive. So boys parents ask the police how the photo could be found. State Police who were conducting their own investigation tell boys parents “She is dating the IT Director @ your sons school and he told the mother who your son is.” So boys parents are like ” But how did she see this pornography?” I guess knowing where the parents were going the Trooper says ” He must have saw it on your sons computer.” This parent tells me the State police were not even in possession of her sons school issued laptop. The police also tried to get them to hand over all personal devices in their home even though they knew the photo was sent from the laptop. In fact the police even said the girls mother was “cooperating” and handed over all her computers and cell phones. The boys parents refused. They were threatened with the possibility of a warrant. They said come back when you have a warrant. What is funny is the Trooper then asked if they could have the laptop. The boy tranferred back to in school a month before this. Was no longer in posession of the laptop at home but he did use it in school. The boys Mother was concerned about how this IT Director could use his professional position to search a computer for his girlfriend. They discussed how it would be legal for the IT to have permission to search his girlfriends computer. But that was not the issue! Whos computer did he first search? And the only ones in possession of pornography is the girls mother and this IT guy and now the school.
    Furthermore, the IT did not make the report. His girlfriend did. Why? Come to find out he owns a private buisness computer related. So if he did find info on his down time he could not make mandated report because if he did federal law states he has to tell a school Administrator and if he did that he would have to let the cat out of the bag that he illegally searched this students computer and also violated FERPA.
    BTW, the police investigation was closed. No charges. The kids actions were determined not to be distribution of child pornography and they took every precaution as 12year olds can to ensure the photos would not be shared but between each of them. The State Police told the boys Mother that they only charge if the pictures are given to a 3rd party. But they ensure the photos are destroyed and no copies are made. The police also said even after the girls mother was adamant about pressing charges on her son. The police said they would charge her for having child pornography on her computer and distributing it to the IT which would also be charged for viewing child pornography and the boys parents could civilly sue her and the IT.

    Now my concern is it takes a few steps to retrieve deleted data in a file. And if a file is named and a school IT is servicing a computer for a student that has nothing to do with the service in the first place he should not even open that file. But to actually retrieve deleted files to me constitutes a search. And the fact he may have done it at home opens another can of worms.
    Law says school officials need reasonable suspicion. But this staff member was not acting in his official capacity. The finding was not incidental. He did not report it to staff.
    It is creepy that the district even after being notified of potential privacy violations they still are sticking up for this guy. So far my complaints are futile. They are claiming he is a mandated reporter. But he never made a report. They are allowing this guy to spy on students and to me it seems creepy because who knows what he is not reporting!

  7. As Christi O’Conner wrote this morning, police release statement that no charges in theft will be filed.

    Ms. O’Conner ran into technical difficulty with her iMovie and apoligizes for the delay in getting her report to her blog. My comment still awaiting moderation on her latest blog thread.

    • I, too, left a comment pointing out some 0f the factual inaccuracies in her story, specifically that the TV was not missing and that GZ didn’t threaten anyone with a gun, and also suggested that this particular horse is long since deceased, and that GZhad been properly acquitted, and that no crime had been proven to have occurred outside of the assault TM was committing on GZ. We’ll see if that makes it out of moderation.

      • I’d probably bet against it. People like Christi don’t like anyone or anything that challenges their narrative/agenda. They stop those things from being revealed, and the people from speaking, when they can. Think SD. Except I think SD is more an ideologue and Christi an opportunist. JMO.

  8. I’m surprised to see the information about O’Mara offering to pay for the missing items to get the attention off George. Does that mean he’s representing George again?

    • I had the same surprise. To learn George was directing police to Mark O’Mara about the theft allegations is contrary to the public statement made on Sept. 10th that O’Mara wouldn’t be representing GZ in the matters pertaining to his split with Shellie. The theft allegations were made on Sept. 26th.

      • A pleasant surprise to me also, and inspired wishful thinking on my part that maybe MOM is still involved with George and helping him behind the scenes. I’ve got my fingers crossed that even if he is not officially George’s divorce lawyer, he is continuing to give him some good advice.

      • I did some searching on the Internet. The first reports I read just said that O’Mara had dumped George. Yesterday, I found one that told the rest of what O’Mara said. He explained that he knew them as a family and he didn’t want to be involved in their divorce. He thought it would be better for an attorney who didn’t know them to represent George in the divorce. I guess the in laws trying to get George arrested went beyond just divorce proceedings. Glad to know O’Mara hasn’t completely abandoned him.

  9. Ok, I know this is EARLY, but, we have done this with my grandchildren last 2 years. It is soo awesome, and the kiddos as sooo surprised. Last year, my dtr took pix of their Christmas tree and uploaded it and I THINK for $5 they sent a pic with Santa placing presents under their tree. Oldest grandson 7 then, wont be believe much more, but he still does and love it. Santa is the sharing of Love as far as I am concerned. SO I want to share this link, hope someone finds joy as we have. It is .Safe and the video is precious! You personalize it


      • Hey that’s fine with Mimi, lol so nice that you Share! We have dibs on ROMANCE ♥ lol Romance Arkansas lol Valentines Day is big deal for them. Hmm think I am gonna try to send my Christmas cards there for Postmark this year. I have always wanted to and procrastinate is my middle name lol. Love this site. So beautifully done.

        • Our former Prime Minister died and his son shared at his funeral, his father’s trip to take him to the ‘North Pole”. Story starts at 3:00 mark. 🙂

          He understands at 6 years old, how powerful his dad really was on that trip to the North Pole! 🙂

        • ROFL, Santa is AWESOME. My Birthday is a week before he arrives. Such a special time of the year for me.

          I was working on the children’s Christmas Party and our Adult Christmas Party today at work. I love, love, love, this time of the year. It’s so much fun to do small wonderful things for others.

          This morning, I was in such a good mood, I was in the drive thru for coffee and donuts for a training session I was running this morning. I decided to pay for the car’s order behind me. I hope whoever that was, it made their day. I know for me, it started my day off brilliantly and it just got better as it went along!

          I did that a year ago, went into the store later in the day and they told me it went on for six cars. The staff had a ball with it.

          • Little things really do mean a lot! I remb few months back I was going thru Mc Donalds and getting my 4 yr old something. Honestly, I just barely had enough cash on me to get whatever it was. Was so wild… got to the window and the person said, “the family in the car ahead, said have a wonderful day” They paid for my stuff. It truly brought tears to my eyes! I pulled onto the road and gave them a thumbs up and thank you and they all smiled and waved. Such a humbling feeling. So I paid it forward the next week. And it felt just as good doing as receiving! I am a giver and hard to take lol, my Aunt says, that’s cheating someone else out of a blessing. SO I was truly shocked that day 🙂 Your a kind soul and glad it made your day better!

  10. I got into a debate with a couple of Traybots, yesterday. Most of what they said had no basis. One said something about Trayvon not bothering to take his ear buds out before assaulting GZ. That was seen by the Traybot as proof that TM didn’t start the fight. I had not heard about the ear buds. Anyone know anything about that.

    I spent many years teaching high school. I’ve never been at a planned fight. The kids don’t tend to invite teachers to those. I would think that if a fight were planned, the kids would take off jackets and secure their cell phones. I’ve been present during many fights that broke out in hallways, cafeterias, and sometimes classrooms. Jackets don’t tend to come off then. A kid sees someone he’s angry at coming down the hall and walks up and punches him.

    What are your thoughts?

    • Rachel tried to say the same thing. Trayvon was still talking to her at the time he sucker punched GZ. Rachel said if he had “Planned” to assault him, he would have hung up with her first.

      Maybe, maybe not. As I recall, the headphones could be seen in the grass to Tray’s left after the shot. The phone was about 7 feet to his right.

      • The person on twitter said most teens take off their jackets when they plan to start a fight. Most teens don’t just meander around in the rain for 40 minutes like he did. He likely wouldn’t have wanted to take off his jacket since it was raining.

        That was really strange behavior. His jacket must have been pretty wet. It didn’t look like a water proof jacket, Walking in the rain is one thing, but just meandering around talking on the phone for so long is unusual.

        • A huge red-flag to me that Trayvon prepared to assault George was he had put his drink in his hoodie pocket. We see on the video at 7-Eleven, he asked for a plastic bag.

          GZ says he has something in his hand, (presumably when Tray circled the car) and the plastic bag was on the sidewalk at the T and the drink in his hoodie pocket. Why carry it in a bag for 40 minutes and then decide to discard the bag and put it in his pocket.

          Of course, to clear his hands for a fight.

          • Also, this was an assault and not a mutually agreed on fight. When kids meet each other after school to fight, they might take off jackets and set things like canned drinks on the ground. It was dark and raining. Setting his cell phone on the ground would not have been a good idea. Obviously, those things didn’t impede his ability to fight (or assault).

            Good points.

            I think I’ve lost interest in talking to those people on Twitter, though. Get tired of Traybots.

    • If I may add, the whole point of cold-cocking someone is to catch them unprepared. Besides the fact that, that is the a reason for wearing headphones to free your hands. Having headphones are no impediment to what happened. One final point, there was no testimony that I recall that had the headphones still on, if he had then the headphones should not have been found with both earbuds on the same side but rather one on the right and one on the left or maybe one on the right and the second down by his jacket, etc. Both being on the side suggest that he did removed them, not that the did not.

      • You are right. There was no testimony. If it had been an issue, the prosecution would have jumped on it.

        • In my estimation the reason it was not brought up was one I have been wondering myself the range of the microphone on the phone. Which would put the whole testimony of what Rachael heard or could have heard in doubt.

          The Defense’s West did asked a couple of questions on the headphones but did not dig too much, I think they did not want to help her creditability when she was sinking on her own.

            • The grass comment always made me think that someone had passed her information, or it was just made up because the headphones would not hit the grass until after TM was shot or they would have been found closer to the T not next to the body.

              But even more simply, could the headphones be powerful enough to even overhear GZ at a distance as she claims. I have used that type of headphones and they are specifically designed not to pick-up sounds past a very short distance, otherwise the person on the other end would hear constant background noises making it hard to conduct a conversation.

            • Am I correct in believing that we have not seen the pre-trial deposition of Rachel by West? If so, a comparison of the two would probably answer a few questions (and probably raise a few more).

              It is not unusual for a witness in her position to add a few incorrect details in the direction of what the prosecution is leading that witness, and then to begin to believe those details in subsequent retelling. There is no pushback from the prosecutors and by the time the defense gets to the witness, even in pretrial, those details can get cemented in the witnesses’ memory.

              This is why the initial interview of Rachel by BDLR was such a catastrophe. Rather than carefully attempt to ascertain the extent and accuracy of her recall, he tromped through whatever recollection she may have had to get what he wanted for the purposes of the prosecution.

              • I still don’t get how the defense seemed to be satisified that it was indeed Rachel Jeantel on the other end of the phone that night.

                No question about who owned that phone or who had it that night was even raised.

                I recall from discovery, BDLR only subpoened the phone records on the same day he interviewed Rachel. 4 hours before the interview begun, BDLR was told the phone was registered in no one’s name. Listening to his question to ascertain that it was indeed Rachel on that phone was an absolute joke. BDLR should lose his job just for the handling of that interview.

                It makes it crystal clear, an investigation was NOT what BDLR and O’Steen were doing.

                • In Jeantels defense she did not appear to want to be involved and if someone else was on the phone or had her phone she most likely would have told so she would not have to be involved. I do not believe she had heard what she claimed to have heard. She was fed information and she felt a duty to her community not to let the cracker get away with killing TM.

              • Corey needed two things or people I should say,for probrable cause.
                Sabrina to say it was her son yelling
                Jeantel to confirm their theory that TM was “profiled, followed and acted in his own defense.”

                Although these prosecutors failed, best believe soon we will see changes to the affirmative self defense laws. For instance the recent change where a watch captain can not claim self defense if he follows a suspect. All this does is allow a victim or their estate to sue. But it still requires an arrest. So have no clue how they intend to enforce that! Police have discretion.

                Next it will be a watch captain can not be armed while on duty. That one will be fought I am sure. That is second amendment infringement.

                Both of these however do not even apply to the Zimmerman case. He was not on watch duty.

                In the end, nothing will stop a person from affirmative self defense. All it will do is allow someone to sue someone.

  11. Is O’Mara representing GZ again? I thought he said he was no longer representing him, but the Orlando paper said O’Mara offered to pay for the missing items because his client didn’t need the attention.

  12. Getting close to End of Month, gotta get those Traybots worked up so (mark my words) by end of month, they can beg for $, saying how hard they have it. That really pisses me off. No pride at all. Grifters.
    From Leatherhead, wish Geo would sue for slander..

    George Zimmerman will not be charged with a crime despite stealing property
    October 23, 2013

    Wednesday, October 23, 2013

    Good evening:

    George Zimmerman continues to live a charmed life. The Orlando Sentinel reported late today that Lake Mary Police Department is not going to charge him with “stealing a king-sized bed, antique chair and several other pieces of furniture from his mother-in-law’s rental house where he lived for several months.”

    They chickened out and dismissed the theft as a landlord tenant dispute.

    You just gotta love it when you see immense courage displayed by police department.

    Any lingering doubts about the extent of the corruption in Seminole County should now be resolved.

    • It continues to amaze me that a ‘lawyer’ would be spouting this kind of nonsense.

      Just because someone tells the police that so-and-so did such-and-such, that’s merely an accusation… the police would be justified to look into the matter, but it hardly rises to the level of having probable cause to arrest and charge someone.

      And even if there is a legitimate dispute between family members over who owned what in the home, that’s a matter for small claims court to sort out.

      Half the items on the list of things allegedly stolen were apparently cds and dvds… seriously, this is right up there with the idiot who called 911 because McDonald’s was out of chicken nuggets.

        • Her twitter account is still active. But I’m wondering if that photo she posted might not have gotten Shellie Zimmerman into trouble.
          Recall, Shellie called the police when she says she was being threatened with a gun, yet Christi’s picture proves that someone was in the mood for taking pictures.

          Was that picture taken from Shellie’s cloud account? Did the iPad take that photo? Or was it taken by Shellie’s phone or her dad’s phone. It appeared to me, from the video, what prompted Shellie to call the police was the damaged iPad not a gun threat.

          Who took that photo? When? and Why? I think I saved a copy of it. If you need it George, I have a copy.

            • Recall Sims saying George’s shirt was buttoned funny and it hung open where they thought he had a shoulder holster? It appears buttoned up to me. What do you think?

            • I posted the picture. It looks to have been taken by either Shellie or her dad.

              When I watch the video, it looks to me like Shellie is on her cell phone when George throws it. She has one hand to her ear when she picks up the broken pieces.

              The call released was actually Shellie’s 2nd call. She called them back on her father’s phone because her phone had no more battery power.

              So who took this picture and from what?

              • It also seems like it was taken from a close distance. Who would get that close if they felt they were in danger? Although I suppose it might just be cropped from a larger photo.

              • And why would GZ be smiling if someone from the opposing side was close by? And why is his left arm extended? Is he pointing at something? Lotsa questions and I doubt we’ll get many answers.

                • “smiling’ – that is a snapshot of an instant in time. It probably is a smile, but, it could also be the start of a grimace.

                  • I was just thinking the same thing and was about to post something similar. 🙂 Maybe I only thought it was a smile because that’s what Christi said it was in her blog.

                    • It looks like a pocket knife in his hand to me. Shellie said he used a pocket knife on her iPad. That picture reminds me of a point in the video where he finished breaking the iPad and walked over and threw it down or dropped it.

                    • I guess people see what they expect (are told) to see. When the resolution of a photo sucks, when we can’t see details clearly, a caption or a blurb of explanation of what the photo shows, helps us fill in the blanks. It was pointed out to us in Christi’s blog that it was a knife.

                • I found better video. You can see Shellie arguing for the iPad back. He won’t give it, she gets on the phone and dad comes up to take photo. You see Wes, get between GZ and Dad and we can see George point, while dad snaps photo. Case closed.

                    • You are right. She said he touched his chest and said, “Come closer, please come closer.” I noticed he had his had on his chest briefly, but instead of getting away from him, she just called 911. That looks like she was angry instead of frightened. I think it’s illegal to call 911 because you’re angry.

                  • Thx for posting it. “Firearm stance”??? They point an arrow to the ipad, but not to a firearm, but they point out a “firearm stance”. Throwing some crumbs to the silly people. I can just hear them, “he must have had a gun, he was in a fire-arm stance!!!” lol

                    It would have been better for the ipad if GZ hadn’t thrown it, but he just tossed it towards her, he didn’t “smash it on the ground” as we were told.

                    But this is a phone call in which Shelly was telling police he had a gun on them? She really should be prosecuted, IMO, since this is a high profile case and saying that put GZ in more danger.

                    And yes, it would be interesting to know who is videotaping this – or is it the house’s security system?

                    • That’s interesting. Shelly made the excuse that she thought he was threatening them with a gun since she knew there was always a gun in the car, but he wasn’t in the car. He had a body guard there who obviously wasn’t afraid to step between George and them.

      • It appears Christi O’Connor has stepped out. Let’s hope she stays all the way out with her biased opinions.

        Did the ipad video just come out? ie, is there a close temporal relationship between that coming out (showing that Shelly was full of lies) and Christie (possibly permanently) shutting down her website?

        • The video from the iPad, whatever it might show, hasn’t been retrieved from the damaged iPad (AFAIK). The picture of GZ and Wes is likely taken from a phone. Christi’s website is, unfortunately, back online.

    • For some having the power to hit delete to ignore anything that requires them to defend or explain themselves is why they create blogs in the first place. Kinda like SD! It is a “see everyone agrees with me” so they can not be wrong. Self serving and easy manipulation. They prefer to create that bubble so their irrational critiques appear rational. Obama does it too.

  13. In the costume contest, all of a sudden the horse (#34) has hopped up to 10 points of Raggedy Ann – I could have sworn the horse only had 1 vote yesterday…..

    • The horse has been within 20 votes of Raggedy Ann all the way through.

      My cousin, Amanda, entered the contest 2 days after it started. The horse had 150 votes and stayed there all the first day, which was first place.

      As Amanda started to get around 130 votes, the horse’s votes started to climb again. They’ve been close in votes ever since, exchaning the lead at times.

      I think there is only a day left. I hope Amanda hangs on to win. Thanks to everyone who helped the effort.

  14. So it wasn’t his body guard, but a friend. I had heard that George also had a girlfriend there. Was that true, or was it just his friend Wes that was with him?

    Another observation, If I had thought someone was threatening me with a gun, I would have gotten to a safe place before calling 911. If someone has a gun and might use it on you, they’re more likely to do that if you’re calling the police.

    • I know that Wes is GZ’s friend, I don’t know if he’s doing double duty as a (paid) bodyguard. There was a female in the truck. I’m not sure there’s any solid evidence of GZ’s relationship with her.

        • Okay, I have had the false impression that Shelley saw the other woman when Shelley and her dad first arrived at the house and that is what caused the fight.

          • Wes told a reporter the girl was his friend going back to high school. She and Wes weren’t doing anything and told George they would help him move his stuff that day.

              • I read that George locked the front door so they couldn’t get in. Shelley’s father ran to the back to get in. George ran to lock that door before they could get in and was a moment too late and that resulted in some struggling with the door, Dean trying to get in and George trying to keep him out. I noticed that Shelley said in her call to the police that he tried to shut the garage door on her.

              • He probably didn’t know she’d call the police, but he may have hidden them to annoy her and make her think he’d taken them.

                • Hadn’t Shellie already spoken negatively about GZ in a nationally broadcast interview prior to the domestic incident? I’m not good with timelines. Anyways, I tend to think if there were any shenanigans going on they were by Shellie and her family.

                  How would Shellie’s family locate and retrieve items that Shellie’s mom claim GZ stole? Did they break in and steal (reclaim) them from wherever he hid them?

                  I really can’t blame the police if they said ‘fuck this, file a civil suit about the property if you want to’. Too many games are being played and I wouldn’t find fault in the police if they wanted no part of it.

                  • I will remind you that Christi sat down with Shellie after her plea deal on Aug. 28th and did an hour long interview.

                    Of that, she released less than 2 minutes of it to Good Morning America.

                    On Sept. 8th (the day before the domestic incident) Christi uploaded and released this video with the headline “Husband is Guilty of Anger”.

                    When I learned of the Sept. 9th incident, I thought both Shellie and Christi had set George up.

                    Recall, we later learned that Shellie was going to go to the house on Sept. 8th but she got hung up in Church. Sure she did. Christi however, got her video out.

                  • I believe the first time Shelley spoke against GZ was immediately after accepting the plea bargain. She had a short interview about George not being at the court proceeding and she told the reporter that she was thinking about divorce. A few days later, she filed and I think she gave another interview then.

                    I wasn’t saying I thought George hid things on purpose. I have no idea why they didn’t find them. It wouldn’t be surprising in a divorce situation for the estranged husband to do that. Things also just get moved around, especially when people are moving.

                    I don’t blame the police for not wanting to get involved, especially when they start finding things they reported stolen. The police chief, however, made a statement that they should protect the community from George. That was a concern. I thought he might try to press charges for something. They could probably press charges for Shelley misusing 911.

                    • Shellie has given 1 hour long interview to Christi. So far about 13 minutes of it has been released with salacious headlines.

                      Here was the Good Morning America one

                      I don’t think it was a coincidence that Christi released another 10 minutes of edited interview on the eve before Shellie’s domestic dispute with George.

                      Approx and hour after Shellie called police, Christi has an appointment to be on Headline news with exclusive material. She appeared on the 7pm show with Shellie’s pictures of the broken iPad and her dad’s face. We also learned that Shellie sent Christi text message copies between her an George at 6:20 that day.

                      These two worked together to paint George as angry and hostile, suffering from PTSD. What I saw the day of the incident, was a calm and compliant Zimmerman listening to all the police commands as they placed handcuffs on him in the middle of the street with an untold number of police guns trained on him.

                    • “The police chief, however, made a statement that they should protect the community from George. ”

                      IIRC GZ’s college kicked him out. It was reported that it was because they felt GZ was a danger to others. I think it was because they knew dangerous people were out to get him and others would be at risk because of his presence.

                    • We do not know the totality of Shellie’s involvement with Christi.

                      it is likely that there have been a series of discussions between the two.

                    • It’s clear the photos Christi gave HLN came from Shellie. That photo on Christi’s blog was taken by Shellie’s dad. Christi has screen shots of texts between G and S on Sept. 7th, 8th and 9th.

            • I had heard that. That’s what made me think she was talking about having a gun in the car. I’m glad the police checked it out and found no gun.

    • Her site being gone for good was too good to be true, I guess. I wonder what her explanation for it being down will be. I kinda think it will be spun as a further impediment to her releasing the results of her investigation. Like the iMovie crash did. It’s a conspiracy to silence her. 🙂

      • I am glad that the site is back up.

        Christi has a very defined POV. So far, through her collaboration with Shellie, she has provided titillating tidbits, but nothing so far that challenges GZ’s account of what happened that tragic evening, nor the jurors’ verdict.

        Let’s see what she has, and let the chips fall where they may.

        • Just more character assassinations. When the Traybots hear professional journalists do what she’s doing, no wonder they think it’s okay. Journalists should be more responsible. I hope she gets sued.

  15. Posted on my youtube video where Daryl Parks finally admits Trayvon started the fight and beat the crap out of George

    Diego Rodriguz 16 minutes ago
    Cus they were there right? they know what happened right? not even eye witnesses saw how it started, so how the fuck could anybody not there know anything? Dr Bao is going to blow this federal case wide open I advise you to get on Georges visiting list because once he proves the state threw the case GZs ass is going to Federal Prison

    • comment from the same delusional idiot: time will tell now wont it of course last I read he was preparing all the evidence he has to file this suit and his attorney is a very well known and respected attorney keep hoping these things to come never surface cus thats all you have left, George will be charged by the Federal courts bank on that even George knows this shit, two e mails he sent just after shooting martin is enough one about rev sharpton the other about Tracy Martin both are in the feds hands

      • I think if they had something they would have used it by now and if George knew it was for certain, he’d be in another country right now. I personally think that’s what he should do, anyway.

  16. Did anyone else notice that Shelley seemed angry at George during the trial. I’m not sure if angry is the word I’d use. She glared at him and there seemed to be hurt or resentment in her expression. She did not seem happy when the verdict was not guilty.

    • If her relatives at the treehouse are to believed, GZ wanted to spend the hours waiting for the verdict alone in the bathroom, rather than with Shellie and his family.

      I’m sure that hurt her. Then he took off to be by himself. I get why he needed that time. Shellie, with her accusations of how selfish George can be, may not have understood that. She did indeed decide to leave him on the day he returned (Aug, 13th)

  17. She has relatives in the Treehouse? No wonder Sharon and Stella got mad at me for criticizing her for throwing meat to his enemies.

    It would hurt to have your husband turn away from you and your family in such a time of crisis when you’re also experiencing great anxiety. O’Mara said that George and Shelley were both suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. (Actually, when he said it, it couldn’t exactly qualify as “post.” It was still ongoing. It must have been horrible for both of them. Christie is trying to make money off of exploiting that time of stress. She needs to be sued.

    • That would have been a substantial part of my pay check when I was teaching. It’s hard for most people to afford $1200 a month for health insurance. You also have to have car, house, and life insurance. Then you have to pay those high taxes that Democrats impose. Maybe we should all just endorse our pay checks and send them to Obama. That might simplify things.

    • For the past 15 years we paid $1200 per month for a plan chosen by the small business my husband worked for, our contribution was 80%. Now he works for a school district and pays a very small percentage for better insurance coverage. The new CA health insurance exchange offers family plans for less than $1200 per month. Costs are drastically different between employer sponsored and individual family plans. The insurance companies determine the pricing.

      • Cassandra, we have paid a similiar amount for the past 16 years like you guys.

        They actually made it MORE expensive…. on top of taxing supplies as well. But they do not care. They are spending other peoples money. Even my 13 yr. old knows prices rise when demands increase. Demand increases when prices fall. These insurance companies now know they can squeeze the American people because their product is required. Oh and why not shift their overhead prices to their “customers.”
        Not sure if you remember but Bill Clinton was attempting to socialize healthcare when he was in office. Many of the same arguments applied to Clintons Fabian Socialist view on healthcare as ObamaCare.
        First of all if the poor are covered by Medicaid, and the old by Medicare who were these “unisured”?
        And the people who stated they were not covered because of preexsisting conditions? Almost half are not “poor” and they found insurance coverage in less then a year. The majority NOT covered are young, healthy, well educated men and women who choose not to be insured.

        So if Clinton & Obama did not do it to create a better system why then did they do it? It increases their govermental programs. Bigger Government was their goal! We already see government waste on the roll out. Spending over $600,000 on a website that does not work. Paying people to sit at desks that can not take applications
        What does the government run well? Anything they get their hands on becomes waste.
        They run public safety, the welfare system, the education system, now healthcare!

        • In the end the ones who were not insured (the young & healthy) will just pay the fine. Those who are now insured with preexsisting conditions who make over a certain amount will not be able to afford the exchange. If these people could not afford it before or could not get state insurance what makes them think they are or would have been better off? Now tbey will be paying a fine for not having insurance. The rest of us are stuck with the bill and are facing losing our insurance!

        • The National Park system is very well run.

          I was a working 27 year old without health insurance 30 years ago. I broke my foot. I went to the county hospital for indigent care, Medi-caid is NOT available to all who are poor and uninsured. To cut to the chase, I was denied a Xray. A year later I developed a rare neurological disorder associated with trauma. I cannot get disability yet I cannot rely on my body functioning well enough to work a regular job.

          I also know a lot about Medi-caid limitations and exemptions as I have helped my disabled siblings get benefits, it was a nightmare, and yes Parkinson Disease is a disabling disease. Many of the things you say are simply not true, plenty of folks with pre-existing conditions cannot get insurance unless they are in a large employer sponsored group.

          • Some States do offer LIMITED medicaid coverage based on income. That is a State issue. Medicaid and Social Security Disability? Two seperate processes. My Mom spent two years appealing and she died less then a yr. after being approved. You can also file disability using SSI. If you are approved for SsD you are automatically approved for medicaid.
            As for pre exsisting conditions….what I said IS true. And even if someone chooses to not use the exchange those grandfathered carriers still do not need to cover preexsisting conditions. You still will have a high premium on the exchange because you will have to choose higher coverage. Sure they can not deny you but can you AFFORD it?

            • And Cassandra hate that you had to experience that 30 years ago. Today however, a hospital can not deny you care. You can owe them $10,000 and they can not deny you. Drs. also work with patients. A hospital around here even has a program for those with limited incomes and even helps to pay the bills insurance wont cover.
              It depends on where you live. Far too often people believe their personal experience is what occurs everywhere. Every states ability to help the poor or low income is dependent on many things. The more independent, tax paying people a state has the better chance the low income have at getting help. That is if the State budgets right.
              I also feel for you concerning your health and the SSD process. If there is any chance a person can modify their employment they usually are not approved. Rarely is anyone approved the first time. People can pull early from their SS earnings if you have enough credits and you can even a spouses if the disability is that bad.

  18. From: Leigh Touchton To: dbyam@nationalactionnetwork.net; Reverend Floyd Rose Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 4:34 PM Subject: Kendrick Johnson, Valdosta

    Dear Sir or Madam:

    My name is Leigh Touchton, I am the Lead Investigator for Valdosta SCLC. Rev. Floyd Rose is the President of our organization, his telephone number is 229-444-1938. I am writing this letter in order to share with you what my investigation revealed.

    I am told that Rev. Sharpton is planning to return to Valdosta for another rally on behalf of the Kendrick Johnson family, so I would like him to be aware of all the facts of this case. I am firmly convinced that both Attorney Chevene King and Kenneth Johnson, the father of Kendrick, are lying about this case.

    As a civil rights activist (4 times elected president of the Valdosta NAACP) I am experienced in conducting interviews, writing open records requests, meeting with public officials. Attorney Chevene King and Kenneth Johnson asked for my assistance in this case in April at what was supposed to have been a candlelight vigil, but it turned into a rally. In July, I was on a conference call with Attorney King and Mr. Johnson and when I followed up on their statements, I became utterly convinced that they are lying about aspects of this case in order to gull the public into donating money to them.

    Attorney King told me in July on a conference call that he had the second autopsy results but could not release it because the GBI still needed to release toxicology results and that the GBI was “stonewalling” them and that they needed money for legal filings to compel the GBI to release the toxicology results. A follow-up phone call to the GBI resulted in a Valdosta Today news report in which the GBI spokesperson said that everything had been released to the Johnson family attorney and that they had absolutely nothing to do with the second autopsy. As you know, the second autopsy was conducted the first part of June, but the results were not released to the public until the first part of September.

    After the second autopsy was made public, I made phonecalls and wrote open records requests to the two Medical Examiners’ offices in Florida where Dr. William Anderson used to work. There are many public allegations of ethical violations surrounding his departure from the Orlando office, and many troubling public statements surrounding his private work, e.g. the Esdale case. Dr. Anderson’s autopsy was not peer reviewed, unlike that of the GBI medical examiner, Dr. Maryanne Gaffney-Kraft. The lack of professional reputation, as well as a communication to Valdosta Today in which Dr. Anderson absolutely made it clear that he does not understand positional asphyxia and does not know the correct diagnosis of such, inclines me to disbelieve his findings. Additionally, the blunt force trauma diagnosis was nebulous, “very very likely intentional” and yet he did not find any signs of defensive wounds on the child’s arms, nor bruises to indicate that the body had been moved after death.

    I spent hours at the Valdosta Crime Lab talking to forensic specialists about the blood and forensic tests in general. Kendrick’s blood was not found in any other part of the school, and the blood on the wall was too old to have been associated with this case. They swabbed it, DNA tested it, it was not Kendrick’s, they ran it through CODIS, they did not get a hit. They did not test all 3,000 students at Lowndes High School. Your attorneys at NAN can probably advise you on why it would have been impossible to get a judge’s permission to do that. The red substance on the shoe that Kenneth Johnson said publicly was blood and was evidence of lack of due diligence re: the investigation is NOT BLOOD. It was tested and it simply isn’t blood. Investigators think it’s paint. For someone to get on national media and claim a shoe that has paint on it is indicative of a botched investigation stretches credulity and makes me more convinced that the attorney and the parents are only interested in sensationalizing this case, not publicizing the truth.

    I stood outside the cadaver storage unit and interviewed Barry Funck, the director of the Valdosta Crime lab and asked him point blank about the allegation from Kenneth Johnson that the drawer was kept too warm in order to cause evidence to decompose. He told me about the alarms that would go off if the temperature got too high or too low, and other forensic personnel have offices right outside the unit. Nothing like that happened. Valdosta Crime Lab has one of the highest accreditation ratings possible, and is seeking an even higher one. At the time, there were 13 people working there, 2 worked for the Sheriff and 11 worked for the city.

    I toured the gym at the high school and spoke to school officials and one school resource officer. The videotapes have been viewed by law enforcement as well as school officials. The hard drives have been entered into evidence. Everyone tells the same story: Kendrick is last seen on videotape running in the direction of the mats, he is never seen on any school camera again. The boy that Kenneth Johnson told me he believes is involved in Kendrick’s death was on the other side of the school when Kendrick went missing. There are cameras at both the entrance and exit to the gym. No videotape records any assault, nor any dragging of what appears to be a body out of store room or bathroom, nor any unrolling and then rolling of a mat. Attorney King and the Johnson family have been told the same things I have, additionally, they have been invited to come in and do what is called an “in camera” inspection of the videotape which Chevene King has not found time to do in 9 months. I have met with both the school attorney and the sheriff’s attorney, more than once and both men tell me that a federal law called FERPA prohibits them from releasing videotape with children’s faces visible, and that a judge’s ruling is required. They have told this to Chevene King repeatedly, and he has refused to seek ruling from a judge. However, in mid-July, he told me that the school was “stonewalling” and refusing to release this videotape and he needed money to make legal filings to compel them to release the video. This is simply not true. As a result, the school attorney and the sheriff’s attorney went ahead and set up a hearing in front of a judge and it is slated for the end of this month.

    I have additional reasons to suspect that the family is not telling the truth. I’d be glad to talk to you or anyone with National Action Network.


    Leigh Touchton, Lead Investigator

    Valdosta SCLC

    610 Mack Drive

    Valdosta, GA 31602


  19. Good Grief! I just enlarged the picture of the Traybot I’ve been debating, Jason Helton. I couldn’t see it because it’s so small. I thought it was a woman with a big hat. It’s a man in bed…between the sheets….and he doesn’t look like a young Patrick Swayze. Wish I hadn’t enlarged it. I like it better thinking it was a woman with a big hat.

  20. Information is where you find it.

    I got this from wordsalad2009 over at whonoze who got it from MSNBC.

    It’s the long version of the Lake Mary PD report on the stolen furniture allegation/complaint and gets very interesting towards the end.

    It might even be better placed in a new thread of its own.

    If you right-click on this link:


    and select “open in new tab” or “open in new window” it should open a page at DropBox.

    Go to the upper right hand corner, click “Download” then click “Direct Download” and save the PDF to your hard drive.

    • I hope you didn’t mind my responding on the thread…

      It reminded me that there hasn’t been much if any discussion concerning how after Trayvon writes that the ‘snitch’ didn’t bleed enough, and after Trayvon is suspended yet again, he went looking to buy a gun.

      Judge Nelson prevented the texts that were retrieved from Trayvon’s phone from being explored in the trial, but I’m wondering if anyone in Florida LE has ever even bothered to follow up on whether or not TM’s threats of further violence against the classmate who snitched on him were carried out?

      • I don’t mind a bit. That’s a good comment. I had not made the connection with him planning to “fight” the snitch again and trying to buy a gun. Schools really should not label assault fighting and punish both the perpetrator and the victim, but they do.

  21. I am disappointed with O’Mara. His recent article sounded like he was trying to stir up the public to find Crump another victim. Coreshift responded it it well.

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