Home » Uncategorized » Open Thread – Oct. 31st.

Open Thread – Oct. 31st.

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228 thoughts on “Open Thread – Oct. 31st.

  1. George Zimmerman juror: Trial ruined my life
    By Hal BoedekerStaff writer
    11:42 a.m. EDT, October 31, 2013

    Like Shellie, it appears juror B29 (Maddy) wants sympathy from the public and possibly donations too.

    “A juror in the George Zimmerman trial tells “Inside Edition” that her life was ruined by the trial because she lost friends and a full-time nursing home job.”

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/blogs/tv-guy/os-george-zimmerman-juror-trial-ruined-my-life-20131031,0,7091899.post

    • If you check out the new improved Sanford police dept website you will see an emphasis on bias reporting. Well as a NW leader I feel strongly that Chief new face is creating a biased and distorted national perspective against NW.

    • Hope he has uploaded his videos somewhere else… 😦
      Getting banned for Leatherhead was not worth it. Maybe he can fight it under fair use?

        • Trent is a whining leatherhead butt muncher! You can counter notify to boobtoob. And write trayvon swayer and tell him that you will hold him finacially responsible for any lost content due to his false copyright report that caused loss of you account!

      • Regarding your account: Captain Long Schlong Silver 2

        The YouTube Community has flagged one or more of your videos as inappropriate. Once a video is flagged, it is reviewed by the YouTube Team against our Community Guidelines. Upon review, we have determined that the following video(s) contain content in violation of these guidelines, and have been disabled:

        bNgMBZiwmVACabbage Patch Trent’s Head Explodes Like A Nuclear Bomb After Zimmerman Frye Hearing
        Because this is the third violation of the Community Guidelines in six months and you have received previous warnings, your account has now been terminated. Please be aware that you are prohibited from accessing, possessing or creating any other YouTube accounts.

        For more information on YouTube’s Community Guidelines and how they are enforced, please visit the help center.

        Please note that deleting this video will not resolve the strike on your account. For more information about how to appeal a strike, please visit this page in the help center.

        Sincerely,

      • It is so easy to claim copy right infringement on Boobtube. Anyone can make a claim and Utoob does not even validate the owner or determines if it is fair use. He may be able to get his account back through a counter notification. He has a pretty long notice in the beginning of all his videos and Utoob states it is not an infringement if you ” Stated that “no copyright infringement is intended”

  2. On an earlier thread there was an interview with JJ where he said ” it was a miscarriage of justice because the jury was not made up of trayvon’s peers”

    First, since it is a jury of the accused peers, that shows absolute stupidity on JJ’s part that someone should have called him out on. Secondly Trayvon’s peers are either in jail or dead.

  3. Traybots spinning away refusing to face it’s the end of the road:

    Real Justice Now
    2 hours ago
    Many are concerned of a purported impending news announcement from the Office of Attorney General Holder stating formal civil rights charges won’t be filed against George Zimmerman at this time.

    Be not distraught for if the DOJ chooses to allow the corrupt and compromised murder investigation of Trayvon Martin and the tainted murder trial and acquittal of George Zimmerman to stand without federal intervention then the message is clear that public citizens with the mentality, means, and access to do their jobs for them without the limitations and boundaries of government rules, must do their jobs for them!

    David Boe I believe they are talking about the initial decision to drop the investigation in lieu of the pending State investigation and trial. I doubt that the Senator would know ahead of an official annoucement that the renewed investigation has been dropped.
    Like · Reply · 2 · 56 minutes ago via mobile

    David Boe Thank you Jonathan! Yes, I believe it’s more of his disinfo. I only have news of Cruz speaking at the SYG hearing on the 29th, and he just towed the NRA/ALEC line (no suprise).
    Like · A few seconds ago via mobile · Edited

    • This is way too easy. Cap it is IMHO it is scared people who are afraid of riots, as well as those who hope somehow some way GZ will face a racial legal case. What will they do if Frumpy does not file a wrongful death suit? Eventually they will have no choice but to accept GZ was not the poster boy for the civil rights case of the century. They need a whiter ass cracker!

        • Thanks. I can find it in pieces in commentary but I have yet tried to look for the whole hearing on video. Been super busy. I usually listen while working that is how I did the whole GZ trial. Live feeds are hard as they do not do well with pausing. My schedule is always up in the air. Glad you found another route to upload. Avoid Trayvon Swayer for now. I suggest you satire the $&!t out of the video he keeps reporting and then repost it on a free speech video site, and mirrior it. Even if you have to modify his voice, and image. Buy a cabbage patch doll and do a voice mod over with an splody doll head! Do you know Mattel tried to sue a u tuber and lost for copyright infringment? Here some utubers were destroying barbies and Mattel claimed copyright and trademark but they lost. They melted em, put them in blenders, and voiced overed. Is Trayvon Swayer a cabbage patch doll?

  4. Anybody know anything about the shooting range target Shellie supposedly found in the house and interpreted as a threat left by George?

    • No ideas. Either GZ was involved or he wasn’t.

      If he was involved, it was incredibly incredibly stupid and calls into question where his head is at.

      If he was not involved, then it raises suspicion that it may have been done by some other party seeking to discredit GZ.

      It is also possible that if it was from GZ, that it may have been put up earlier, at a time when both GZ and Shellie were living together at that location, and that it was left up, and now, is being used to discredit GZ by a deliberate misinterpretation of its origins.

      • The police report gave updates on the investigation of theft and vandalism at the house right up until Oct. 23rd and no mention of the targets being left as a threat can be found in the police report.

      • The 9/26 police report mentions that the Deans weren’t sure that George had even moved out because many of his belongings were still at the residence…

        …now they’re trying paint a picture of only this lone gun range target left remaining at the home as a threat.

        They’re starting to seem as paranoid and delusional as some of the worst of the Traybots out there.

          • Not sure they will see this as a direct threat. It is time to look at GZs behavior in context though, and maybe not discount everything Shellie is reporting.
            If her Mother went to the house to inspect property she may not have noticed the target. Or she may have not put two and two together. Shellie on the other hand had once she went back.
            I think GZ has it in him to do that. He sure the hell is not using the best discretion.
            Looking back at the FBI report and his domestic issues with his ex, he was not a gentlemen when they had issues. Looking back at the Domestic incident with Shellie I have to question why he broke the IPad after the altercation with Shellies Dad. Would he not have wanted that as evidence that he in fact was being wrongly accused of violence? And when one looks very closely at the video when he comes out of the garage with the Ipad he DOES put his right hand into his shirt near his left shoulder. He takes a fwd. stance with his legs spread. Shellie does back away and looks distraught. Wes then steps in. Everyone watches as GZ busts up the IPad.
            I found this video. It was not made by a supporter but it is the best clip of that part of the incident. In context GZ is walking a very fine line with indirect threats.
            Here is the video. Start @ the 1 min. mark to see that part of the domestic incident.
            I am curious to see the IPad video.

            • Everybody has a breaking point…

              And to George’s credit, he did attempt to retreat from the situation… he went inside HIS lawful residence and was attempting to lock the doors to avoid any further confrontation.

              Shellie, however, forced her way back into the home through the garage and continued to provoke him.

              • I get the technicalities. But after trial for 2nd degree murder living in hiding STILL…who wants to continue to create even more? Besides, really? He knows his wife and FIL.
                To put your hand on a gun after taking something forcefully (you know she did not hand the IPad over willingly) while in a shooting stance, and telling someone to step to you…..not a good image. All over material bullshit that can be replaced later or argued during divorce. Shit I would have went, got a burger, and called my atty. until they left. Was it worth it?
                He knew to destroy the IPAD for what went on inside.
                And the taping of each other was ongoing outside for sometime.
                The FIL just stood there, Shellie did back away. Looks like Shellie came out to get the IPAd saw the knife and backed away. FIL came out and GZ put his hand on his gun egging him to come closer.

                Who lived there, who could be there, who was in possession of property, who took what property, landlord tenant relationship etc. is no reason what so ever to intimidate with a gun. It is not responsible.

                And IF he put that target there he has some issues. He is doing shit he knows is on the verge of illegal.

                I know some are knocking Shellie but if she really wanted to be a bitch she could have filed a restraining order and GZ would have no guns. Actually any Dean could have by now. I think he knows she is afraid of violating her probation and will not file anything because of the arrest threats during this incident.

                I am a gun rights advocate. But I do not support smug gun owners who intimidate because they have it. If temper, conflict, or snapping is a possibility that clouds judgement… hand it over and wait till you are in your right mind because you can never take back a bullet!

                • I had two family members who were gun owners who for a time we intervened when they personally showed signs it was not safe to possess. It was the very FIRST thing we thought of even before professional help. In my state you lose the right if you 502 commited. We did not want that. But they had no choice. We made them transfer their guns. And we held their ccw. It was to ensure their saftey and others. It is better safe then sorry.
                  In GZs case if he cant carry then he needs someone who will for him. But he needs to get his shit together!

            • I haven’t been following ‘target scandal’ very closely, but do we even know for sure that Shellie found this target and handed it over to the police as is claimed? Unless we know that for sure we’re just giving momentum to a media lie.

              Shellie was on the phone calling someone. Presumably the police or her lawyer. Seems reasonable to me that Shellie first threatened him by saying “I’m calling the police!”. George may have just been responding with the threat “Oh yeah! I’m calling them on you!” (he carries his gun on right back hip unless he’s changed that). And does anyone get trained to use that kind of “firearm stance”?

              Why are you using a Blackbutterfly video? They are propaganda. Here’s one of the incident w/o someone creating the context in which you view and interpret it.

              • And IMO Shellie is so obviously provoking him in that video. She sure doesn’t seem afraid of him. Nobody there does. As an aside, Wesley does a great job during this incident.

                • I do believe Shellie has reported it. I used the video because it was what I found within what I needed for the context I was discussing. Just ignore the rest. I did.

                  There are numerous shooting stances. One can modify their stance depending on the situation. Appears he is in what is called the tactical or fighting stance. This stance is used when you want to keep your balance, aborb recoil and it keeps the body armored chest fwd.

                  After the shooting GZ changed from hip to shoulder holster. Prolly because of his experience with someone on top of him making it harder to reach for his gun. When he turned himself in the first time he had a gun, a knife, and a shoulder holster in the rental car Ken rented for him. Shellie also stated they found a shoulder holster packaging inside the home on Sept. 9th.

                  My point is…. A firearm is carried as a last resort life saving weapon. It is a deadly weapon. It is used when a choice has to be made for your life or theirs type of situation. There are times when it is appropriate to warn the aggressor giving them opportunity to retreat, and times when as the victim there is no other means to dissolve the threat. As a trained firearm owner GZs actions are not appropriate given the circumstances. Perception is the key. If he places his hand on that gun every single time he feels threatned then his choice and perception on when to shoot may be compromised for one reason or another.
                  And he could get himself shot.

                  If he is “breaking”, or feels the slightest threat in the need to shoot or should shoot, or has some sort of mental perception incapacity, he should not be armed at this time. This is not just for others saftey but his as well.

                  Suppose next time the other person is armed. Suppose David Dean was armed. He was just hit and property taken, then threatned with a gun. Is that not more provoking then a camera in your face?

                  I agree up until the altercation in the garage nobody appeared afraid. They all were all acting childish.
                  But once he put his hand on his gun anyone armed and percieving he was going to shoot could have shot him.

                  This business with the target. I am unsure if Florida law takes that as a direct threat. As they did nothing because a gun was not shown during the Sept. 9th incident. Where I come from they would have charged both with DV during the Sept. 9th incident because they both made accusations against each other, the Police do not have discretion in those situations. And leaving a target riddled with bullets after the first accussation would most def. be viewed as a threat.

                  Eventually the police are just going to get tired of both of em and lock them both up.

  5. Just saw Mark Geragos on AC 360 speaking on the Kendrick Johnson Crump shakedown saying basically that the federal investigation will most likely go nowhere because there is such a narrow limted scope where the feds can intervene and over ride a state investigations findings

  6. LOL….Now Zimmerman interferred with trayvon’s housing rights due to his race
    Let’s try this again. Please continue to email the following to the DOJ. The video we saw was a hoax and the investigation is still going on. We, again, apologize for the misinformation. Thank you for your patience.

    It’s email time again, folks. Thanks and Appreciation to the author of our next letter, David Boe. Let’s fill those email boxes up. Let’s do it for Trayvon! Let’s do it for Justice!

    Here’s the next email for the DOJ. Simply copy, paste, and email to the addresses provided at the bottom of this email.

    The Honorable Eric Holder

    Attorney General United States Department of Justice

    Washington, D.C. 20530

    Dear Attorney General Holder:

    We are writing to you today as citizens concerned for Justice. It is our belief that the verdict obtained pursuant to State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman left demonstratively unvindicated the United States of America’s interest in eradicating bias-motivated violence.

    Our concerns are two fold; one is for the investigation conducted by Florida law enforcement, and the other for the trial State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman for failing to address Criminal Civil Rights violations. We are grateful that your office has reopened the investigation into the highly publicized criminal case. We believe it is necessary that your office investigate evidence, and witness accounts reported through the media of apparent racial bias in the actions that resulted in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. We consider the conspicuous absence of this information in Florida law enforcement’s investigations a dereliction. Our belief is that the Sanford Police Department, and Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigations failed to collect and preserve evidence, and witness accounts of a considerable and apparent racial bias in the motivation and actions taken by George Zimmerman that resulted in the fatal shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

    There is evidence that through the threat of force, and the use of force that George Zimmerman did intimidate, and interfere with Trayvon Martin’s housing rights because of his race. There is evidence that George Zimmerman did through the use of force fatally injure Trayvon Martin in an act of criminal interference of his Right to Fair Housing because of his race. Our attention has turned specifically to the right to occupy a dwelling in the statute 42 U.S.C. § 3631. Section 3631, and as enumerated in the statute 2) the occupation of dwelling.

    It is also our belief that the trial, and verdict in State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman failed to vindicate the interest of the United States of America with regard to Criminal Civil Rights violations. We also believe the trial failed the State of Florida’s interest in Civil Rights. We found it conspicuous that all mention of “racial profiling” was barred from the proceedings. The term used to indicate racial bias was apparent in the actions of George Zimmerman, and decidedly used as a part of the criminal interference of Trayvon Martin’s right to occupy the dwelling at 2631 Retreat View Circle, Sanford, Florida 32771. We feel the State court’s failure to allow for the probable motivation of race bias, in direct conflict with the prima facia hypothesis of self defense, did deny the Jury of weighing the evidence necessary to arrive at a just verdict. We are providing this list to indicate the failure of Florida Law Enforcement in the collection and preservation of evidence, and to affirm that a proper and thorough investigation with regard to Civil Rights violations directed by your office is conscionable, necessary, and in the public interest.

    1.) Reports of witnesses that experienced harassment, menacing behavior, and intimidating tactics used in confronting African Americans living and visiting inside the gated community.

    2.) A report that an email was sent to multiple residents, and cautioning residents about African American males.

    3.) A report of witnesses to daily/nightly patrolling done by George Zimmerman.

    4.) A report of witnesses with knowledge that George Zimmerman was patrolling while armed.

    5.) A report of a rash of calls to police about African Americans as suspicious by other residents at the urging of George Zimmerman through his role as neighborhood watch coordinator.

    6.) Noted abrupt change of concerns in calls to police to concerns about “suspicious” African Americans in the months prior to the killing of Trayvon Martin.

    7.) Noted prior embellishments of facts when calling police about African Americans. i.e., suspicious and loitering in 10 seconds; “there’s two suspicious characters at the gate of my Neighborhood/they’re just hanging out, loitering/two African American males in a white Impala/10 seconds ago, I called as soon as I saw them.”

    8.) The recording of the probable racial slur (f***ing coons) in conflict with the defense claim that went unexamined by forensic audio analysts, and unchallenged by the State of Florida leaving questions of depravity that ultimately should be answered by a Jury.

    9.) The recording of the call to police containing objectifying curses inside phrases indicating depravity in relation to evidence of racial bias was not considered pursuant to State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman

    In conclusion we are thankful that the United States Department of Justice has offered us this means of communicating our concerns and knowledge of the case in consideration of the renewed investigation. We understand the great responsibility and care that must be a part of any decision to undertake a prosecution of Civil Rights offenses. Still we consider the alternative a threat to the guarantee of equal protection under the law in our Nation. We implore you to act in the name of Justice.

    Sincerely,

    Please enter into the subject Line- Please review Zimmerman/Trayvon case

    Email Address: AskDOJ@usdoj.gov

    • It continues to amaze me that people that are able to compose such an e-mail can be so delusional and sound intelligent at the same time. The want to apply so many subjective interpretations of GZ acts, but can not even accept the objectives acts of TM.

      • +1
        What they yet get is that racial animus has to occur AT THE TIME. It would totally be funny if they get an email reponse from the DOJ telling them the investigation is has closed. I watched the whole hearing on CSPAN. Graham made that statement and the atty. from Harvard sitting right next
        Sybrina concurred! And please…. Fair Housing rights? Lol what is next?

        • I am waiting for someone to claim that GZ was acting as an agent of the State because he was part of the NW program which is administered by the City. That way they can claim that GZ racially profiled TM which citizens can do but it is illegal for the State to do, of course even this has its own caveats but when you are reaching anything goes.

              • And a flaslight, and his keys. maybe he even violated parking policy by leaving his car at the curbside of a walkway. He def. Disturbed the peace when he yelled for help!

                  • You guys aren’t formatting your complaints thoroughly – you’re missing the essential ingredient. GZ violated TM’s civil rights to housing by killing him because he’s black. Therefore, your complaints need to be along the lines of – civil rights violation – he was screaming so loudly in order todisturb the sleep of blacks / He left itemson the ground so that blacks could trip on them – clearly a civil rights violation. You see? It can’t just be a trumped up “crime” – the very fact that TM was black means every action by GZ must by “logic” be racist! lol

                    • Darn! You are right, that is why he used his face to prevent TM from getting to his step-mom’s house, then tried to break the cement on the sidewalk so that TM would trip over the cracks in the sidewalk. Wow, GZ is really a racist madman.

          • I still can’t believe that the HOA settled with the ambulance chasers based on the ridiculous premise that an entire neighborhood is liable for the actions of one resident.

            And I still question the ethics and legality of them even going after the residents considering many were to be called as witnesses at trial… how is this not considered tampering?

            • The insurance company choose the path of least resistance and the safest bet for them. I would like to know who were the lawyers representing the company that agreed to the settlement, that might be illuminating.

            • The HOA didn’t settle with anybody.

              They had no say in the matter.

              Their insurance company decided to give Crump some “go away” money and be done with it.

              For which they had no obligation to consult with the HOA.

    • The text of the housing law the Traybot erroneously cited
      42 USC § 3631 – Violations; penalties

      .

      US Code
      Notes
      Updates
      Authorities (CFR)

      Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

      Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, by force or threat of force willfully injuries, intimidates or interferes with, or attempts to injure, intimidate or interfere with—

      (a) any person because of his race, color, religion, sex, handicap (as such term is defined in section 3602 of this title), familial status (as such term is defined in section 3602 of this title), or national origin and because he is or has been selling, purchasing, renting, financing, occupying, or contracting or negotiating for the sale, purchase, rental, financing or occupation of any dwelling, or applying for or participating in any service, organization, or facility relating to the business of selling or renting dwellings; or

      (b) any person because he is or has been, or in order to intimidate such person or any other person or any class of persons from—
      (1) participating, without discrimination on account of race, color, religion, sex, handicap (as such term is defined in section 3602 of this title), familial status (as such term is defined in section 3602 of this title), or national origin, in any of the activities, services, organizations or facilities described in subsection (a) of this section; or

      (2) affording another person or class of persons opportunity or protection so to participate; or

      (c) any citizen because he is or has been, or in order to discourage such citizen or any other citizen from lawfully aiding or encouraging other persons to participate, without discrimination on account of race, color, religion, sex, handicap (as such term is defined in section 3602 of this title), familial status (as such term is defined in section 3602 of this title), or national origin, in any of the activities, services, organizations or facilities described in subsection (a) of this section, or participating lawfully in speech or peaceful assembly opposing any denial of the opportunity to so participate—

      shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both.

      ——————————————————————————–

  7. BOOOOO!!!! Well been a busy week here, hope everyone had a sweet Halloween! We took my grands to Harvest Fest, that we have at church. Lots of fun games, cake walk, free food, popcorn, cotton candy, snow cones, hay rides. Yep sugar those sugar babies up and send them home with parents 🙂 Love LOVE LOVE some of the imaginations of some people! Ok, now to catch up! Sending Sugary Hugs to All!

  8. In his written testimony to the senate Harvard Law professor Ron Phillips ( who agreed it was the correct decision not to pursue federal charges ) told the senate that stand your ground laws caused Zimmerman to ignore the dispatcher and chase after Trayvon.

    First, these instantiations of Stand Your Ground completely removed the duty to retreat from any space in which a person has a legal right to be.76 This emboldens individuals to escalate confrontation, even deadly confrontation, whereas an alternative rule would decrease the likelihood of deadly exchanges. The Trayvon Martin matter is a case in
    point. The very existence of this law emboldened Mr. Zimmerman to disregard the command of the 911 dispatcher and follow Trayvon Martin, arrogating law enforcement —what should be a public function—to himself. This private law enforcement attitude, made possible and emboldened by Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, coupled with a permissive concealed carry law, was the “but for” cause of Trayvon Martin’s death. But for the fact that Zimmerman exited his vehicle that evening, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2013/10/related-content/sullivan_testimony_final_oct_29.pdf

      • For a law professor this is a weak argument as the principle would apply to TM. If there was a “duty to retreat” TM failed at this and instead decided to confront GZ, where was his “duty to retreat”. The professor and other TM supporters always try to project the events as GZ got out of his car and immediately a confrontation ensued. The reality is that “but for” TM returning to confront GZ there would have been no confrontation.

        • EXACTLY. By their standards Trayvon was the one who had the duty to retreat once he saw GZ walking back to his truck. GZ had NO TIME to retreat. He had NO TIME to Stand His Ground. The thing is these people REFUSE to accept violent people do NOT follow laws.

          So lets say they repeal and correct the SYG law….. What happens to another citizen who has no time to retreat or can not do so safely? Lets just say for arguments sake GZ got out of the truck to aggressively pursue TM like they believe. Lets say TM thought he lost GZ and just continued to talk on the phone oblivious to being “stalked” and GZ popped out of nowhere to ask whats up. Since they removed the no duty to retreat provision TM would have to run, he has no other recourse. He can only use force with force, no deadly force until which time GZ had used deadly force. By that time it obviously would have been too late. GZ was armed, TM was not! If GZ was dead and TM alive they would say SYG worked!

          • And that is the pretzel that they twist themselves in because they avoid looking at the circumstances of the case. Their position would only work is they use their narrative, but as soon as you apply the facts of the case and not the suppositions that have been made then the argument falls flat on its face. The duty to retreat has to apply to TM as well, and he had that opportunity, meanwhile GZ was attacked and pinned on the ground where was his opportunity to retreat?

            • During the Senate hearing the professor and the other gentleman who was a CEO or whatver attempted to correct Sen. Cruz (who did a fine job I add) on the SYG not applying to this case. One brought up that it did apply and the other read the jury instruction. But MOM had to ask for that to be added and the Judge used her discretion. Who is the legislator to even attempt to pressure judges in applying and using descretion on the laws to apply? As long as the Judge is following the laws of descretion and jury instruction the legislator has no right. Also, the jury instruction just notifies the jury about how a defendant has no duty to retreat within the law (which Cruz mentioned was up to the jury to apply). Instead of possibly arguing on what they want corrected they mistate the law in a whole.

        • “For a law professor” this is fairly typical of the pro-or-con type papers he likely assigns his classes where the student is forced to pick one side of an argument and defend it… it teaches students to disregard and exclude information that contradicts the thesis of their paper.

          I’m not a fan of this type of essay because it conditions students to form an opinion ~before~ they know the facts, ~before~ they’ve done any research, and then to look only for sources of information that will support that opinion.

          And you can clearly see the professor here struggled to support his thesis with actual facts…. his thesis being: “[the Trayvon Martin] case best illustrates why these Stand Your Ground laws are so destructive to our cities and states.”

          The paper quickly resorted to fallacious tactics such as quoting the Klan, blaming the South, and regurgitating known factual errors from the false narrative.

          _____________________________________________________________________________________

          * Lol, why am I not shocked 🙂

          Just noticed this disclaimer in the footnotes: “I am deeply grateful for the expert research assistance provided by Dehlia Umunna, Teliza Ain Adams, Asmara Carbado, Ashley Lewis, and Kyle Wirshba. Any errors, of course, are mine alone.”

    • Stand Your Ground Laws causing GZ to ignore the dispatcher when he was already out of his vehicle?
      That makes perfect sense! Not. That is just another way to say “He got out of the car because he had a gun.”
      What if GZ had not called NEN to make a report? What if he did not have time? What if he wanted a better decription? Kind of important to know where the shady guy ran to.

      Leaving the vehicle had nothing to do with the whole events end. If they claim it does then TM was the aggressor. Nothing, nothing shows GZ initiated any physical altercation. Nothing, nothing shows that GZs state of mind that night was an intent to use SYG, to harm, hurt, or kill anybody. He was reporting what he saw. He wanted to inform the police. He wanted to protect his negihbors and himself from a possibility.
      And the possibilities are endless! It is a mathmatical Fact!

      The evidence provided GZ acted in self defense. The evidence proves he hesitated before he shot. There is no proof he left the vehicle against advice. No evidence that he acted with a depraved mind, heart, or mouth.
      A young man decided he would step to a guy who was watching him. The young man inserted HIS color (there is evidence he was raised to believe all white people disparge against blacks) so he believed he was begin watched because he was black. This is why TM reacted as he did. He was WWB and how dare a Cracker watch him? On the phone he had no choice but to confront GZ because well he was also taught not to run, it is honorable to confront and face racists and bigots.
      If anyone had color on their mind that night it was Trayvon Martin! Yes, GZ called him a punk. And Trayvon Martin proved him right! He waited for GZ to walk back down that path. He did not care for his life or the life of GZ. All he cared about was whipping the Cracker for a 300 year old grudge he was taught to harbor.

  9. Trayvon Martin Support Page-The Fight For Justice Continues

    about an hour ago.

    We have a battle to fight today, Supporters. His name is Senator Lindsay Graham. He spread throughout the Senate floor the misinformation that AG Holder would not be filing charges. Please contact his office and express your concern over his actions and urge him and others to learn the true facts about the cover up of the murder of Trayvon before spreading false information.

    South Carolina U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham’s declaration that there would be no federal civil rights charges filed in the Trayvon Martin murder were both inappropriate and premature. Has the honorable senator taken the time to conduct an independent congressional inquiry into the matter? Has the distinguished gentleman from South Carolina taken the time to evaluate the evidence collected and made a determination that the premise of the state prosecutor’s case was consistent with what the evidence actually supported?

    Our independent research concludes otherwise but more importantly the states own medical examiner Dr. Shiping Bao says otherwise as well. In fact, our conclusions and Dr. Bao’s assertions both have widespread implications of government corruption and therefore mandate Department of Justice involvement!

    We urge our federal representatives to learn the real facts about the Trayvon Martin murder scandal and cover-up prior to spewing uninformed garbage into the public only perpetuating the cycle of misinformation widely disseminated by the mainstream media leading up to the egregious acquittal of George Zimmerman and arguably the worst miscarriage of justice in a U.S. court system in the last 100 years.

    Please contact his office and express your concern over his actions and urge him and others to learn the true facts about the cover up of the murder of Trayvon before spreading false information. The number is (202) 224-5972.

    If you prefer to email your concerns, please email from the following webpage:

    http://www.lgraham.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.OfficeLocations

    • These people are so funny. Politicians and half the population were in agreement with them when they did NOT know the facts (thx, media). Now that people are more aware of the facts and the Scheme Team shenanigans, they are turning away. But these silly people think the inconvenient facts are “misinformation” and if people could just learn all of “their” facts (mysterious voices, special interpretations of noises, special knowledge of extra people being at the scene whom no one else saw but are in the conspiracy to help GZ fulfill his lifelong dream to kill a black man – well, gosh, if enough people would see those “facts” , Eric would throw the civil rights book at George and the world would be righted….

  10. Trayvon Martin Support Page-The Fight For Justice Continues shared a link.

    6 hours ago.

    From Glenn McCormick, evidence there was talk of killing Trayvon: Glenn McCormick Here is Jenna’s call being played at court. Turn up the volume on your computer speaker control and turn up the volume on the youtube player control and fastforward to 3:36 at the 3:37 mark in the video you can hear the name MARK being yelled out by a male voice in the distance. There is no other audio events or overlapping talk. I believe Mark Osterman is in Jenna’s house, he came in with the 1st screen door slam when Trayvon yells out “get off”. He had to flee when the yelling started. Also I believe that is Mark that says “he’s dead” 5 times and “why kill him” 2 times while crying. How can Jeremy go from normal speech to crying speech back to normal speech? Mark is the one saying “why kill him” in front of Jenna and Jeremy so if the shit goes bad then at least he has them as witnesses that he didn’t want GZ to shoot Trayvon or know that GZ was going to shoot Trayvon. However Jeremy confessed that GZ told him he was going to shoot him, “he warned me he’d shoot him”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixo0a1N-VZY

    • Traybots for a long time through there “independent investigation” tried to make sense of why the SOA collected bank surveillance video because their first theory of GZ lying about his whereabouts that evening was wrong.
      Apparently they have concluded that Mark Osterman was involved in the “murder” because he was @ the bank @ 6:38pm on Feb. 26th. It seems the SOA lead them down that the yellow brick road. They believe GZ called Mark and Mark was there during this event and I guess now they are trying to tie the only eyewitness who saw TM on top to this crazy, unfounded, conspiracy. Seriously these people watch too much tv. They are just revisiting this conspiracy because they just can not accept the evidence.
      I hope none of these people ever sit on a jury.

      • My family in Europe(Spain and the UK) has asked me on several occasion what is wrong with American Politics? I avoid reminding them of their own problems but I answer it is people like the Traybots who make politics difficult. It is not the Tea Party, Republicans or even the Democrats it is that too many of us are unwilling to accept things that do not conform with their views, no matter the evidence to the contrary.

        Another perfect example is what is going on with Obamacare right now. The language of the law was clear, the projections of how many people would lose their plan, forcing to change to another healthcare plan. It was there for anyone to see, and had been there for years. But when someone in the right pointed out, they were called racist, terrorist, kidnappers, anything that they said was automatically ignored. As with this case the dissenting voices were correct, and it was not because they were racist, terrorists or murderer supporters but because we were able to look and follow the evidence and not try to make the evidence fit the preconceive conclusions.

          • I think it is also a matter of perception that is skewing how people see things. When growing up politics were not discussed in the news as they are now, but between people at the park while playing dominoes, the barber, etc. The news reported things and people discussed them the next day at the watercooler.

            Today we have pundits from both sides bringing talking 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. We have a news overload, giving people the wrong perception. Take for instance the government partial shutdown, that is something that has happened many times before, in fact several times it was done by the as party as the President.

            There are many countries where politics is an obsession, they just do not get the global coverage that the US gets. When I a was in Puerto Rico during an election year, I was shocked at the involvement by people of all ages and how almost 90% of voting age voters, went and voted. Unlike the here where less than 50% actually do vote.

        • True bori. Far too easy to dismiss the truth when people harbor grudges and misconceptions. I think it has a lot to do with lack of trust anymore. It becomes easily plausible to believe a conspiracy is occuring because the American no longer has a foundation of those principles they can believe in that once were.

          Politics is entwined in everything from education to the courts. We no longer have trust in the system because the system is corrupt. So even when the system works there is an indoctrination that it has failed someone.

    • If I may make one suggestion, captain… YouTube may be deleting your videos because of the use of the movie studio intros.

      Even though it was ‘Screech’ who reported them rather than the actual copyright holders, YouTube may be required and/or feel it necessary to remove videos (no matter how they became aware of them) when there is little doubt that the videos in part or in whole are probably in violation of copyright laws.

      Here’s a blurb about a recent case against YouTube for copyright infringement:

      “The decision comes after the Second Circuit Court of Appeal revived the lawsuit last April. In that opinion, the appeals court agreed with YouTube that internet service providers must be aware of infringements before becoming liable for infringements, but also determined that the federal judge hadn’t properly considered whether YouTube may have had actual knowledge of specific infringing clips or whether YouTube might have essentially willfully blinded itself from having that knowledge.”

      • Well of course they have blinded themself. They state they do not even investigate if a complaint is even from the reputable copyright holder. Then there are the DMC take downs that usually always have fair use provisions but they are misused so the complaintant can find out PPI. But in order for the ISPs to release any PPI they require a court order. Usually though IF it is reputable like him using his intro he would have gotten a DMC. He has had complaints from Trent Swayer. But since anyone can claim copyright infringement and Boobetube does not investigate they strike the channel owner. After so many complaints they ban the user and remove all content even if it does not violate any TOS. So how Boobetube continues to blame the ISPs when users have a different TOS is beyond comprehension. We do not pay to use Boobtube. We pay for our ISP though. Boobtube is to an ISP what China is to Walmart. Basically that is what Google is saying. Sue China. We just sell it you use it.

  11. Does anyone else find it odd that the Conservative Outhouse ringmaster has no made one single peep about Senator Graham announcing Zimmerman will not face federal charges? Could Sundance be secretely butthurt because with federal charges he could once again rage about the failures and incompetence of pinky ring wearing progressives?

    • Wow, does this idiot not realize that on one picture he is holding the gun, one way to match the notch with the pin and in the other he flips the gun and only matches the notch but there is no mark where the pin is? Forget that it is practically impossible to hit his head where they are suggesting but the very evidence they are pointing too is wrong and if they would stop trying so hard they could see it.

    • Tin hat very appropriate, I bet they don’t understand that it is all an illuminati conspiracy. You see TM had discovered a secret about them and had GZ kill him to keep the secret.

  12. The lawyer for the Johnson family appears to be using the same play book as Crump. He is using lies to get people riled up and at the same time setting up donations to help with legal costs.

    I posted link to a blog that had a radio interview, http://valdostatoday.com/2013/10/touchton-says-kj-death-accidental Leigh Touchton recently did. She is a former member of the NAACP local chapter in Georgia and was asked by the family lawyer to be the lead investigator to see if Kendrick Johnson didn’t meet with foul play. She has determined that it was likely a horrible accident in which he got caught upside down in a cheerleading mat.

    During the radio interview, Leigh said the lawyer and the father of Kendrick Johnson lied to her and several others during a conference call. She didn’t go into detail though about what those lies were. Now here is an article that explains how the lawyer may be buying time and using lies to motivate people to donate.

    “Conference call participants were also outraged, according to Touchton, about the assertion made by Kenneth Johnson that no one from the Lowndes County Schools attended Kendrick’s funeral.

    “This was six months after Kendrick’s death, so the father did not say this in the throes of grief. He said this on this conference call, and people on the call were outraged,” said Touchton. “One of the leaders on the call said, ‘Leigh, does that change your mind and make you now believe that this was a horrible cover up and that people from the school system didn’t care enough about this child to even come to the funeral?”

    Touchton said she talked to a source at Lowndes High School who confirmed to her that Lowndes County School Superintendent Wes Taylor and David Troy went to the Johnsons’ house the night his body was found to express their condolences. She also said she was told that at least two school board members as well as several coaches attended and that a middle school coach even gave remarks at the funeral.”

    http://valdostadailytimes.com/local/x2112910298/Rose-Touchton-believe-no-cover-up-in-Johnson-case

    This reminds me of the inflammatory remarks Crump et al. would make in the early days of the Zimmerman case, (ie: Trayvon laid unidentified for 3 days, police didn’t care enough to do a proper investigation) to anger people to action and to donate.

    I’m surprised at Mr. O’Mara who has joined the chorus for release of information in the case. Does he not recall how the release of 911 tapes may have tainted Rachelle Jeantel’s first statement to police as Crump had these tapes before he interviewed her.

    Mr. O’Mara believes in the system and tells us to trust the system and let it work. With all due respect, George Zimmerman was absolutely smeared. He lost his wife, lost his home, lost his job and future earning power is diminished and threats to him and his family are an everyday occurrence.

    Lawyers like Crump and King and race-baiters like Jackson and Sharpton have to be put out of business. The media must stop taking people’s lies to air and the network O’Mara joined is leading the charge in bringing red-herrings to the public.

    [ADD] CNN has taken that surveillance tape and looped it so that it looks like 3 kids were playing basketball when Kendrick entered the gym but the tape actually shows no one else in the frame at the time Kendrick is seen walking in direction of the mats. Those kids could be unfairly targeted by others who might get the impression with this looped tape that they were there when Kendrick entered the gym.

    God help the person who gets caught in the cross-hairs of this Johnson case. Why does anyone want to be a police officer when they get backed-up this way? Now the feds are looking into it.

    • They are using Crumps narrative because Crump is their atty. now. Which is why I am not paying attention to the case in a whole. It is shady how the kid died though. But as a parent I would seek how he died, pursue how the police came to the conclusion it was an accident. Not hire a pro black atty.who releases investigatory info. just for emotional appeal.

      • I totally get the family wanting answers. But they aren’t being honest with the public. The lawyer said he was waiting for an autopsy report when in fact, others already had the report and one news site posted it on their website.

        The father lied about the school officials not going to the funeral. For this to have been covered up to protect someone, the students, school officials, local police, GBI and the medical examiner all have to have had to conspire to protect the person who killed Kendrick. No way is a state, any state that corrupt to pull something like that off.

        Kendrick’s parents are trying to become the next Sybrina and Tracy.

        • The family has been offered on several occasions to come in and view the surveillance tape and have refused. They wanted a public release. Well there are minors on the tape and for a lot of good reasons, they should not be publicly viewed on the tape.

          This is like what Crump did with the comments about GZ not apologizing. They knew full well why he couldn’t reach out to them but used it at every turn to try to show him as cold and without regret. When he did find a way to give them a public apology they showed without a doubt, it wasn’t about wanting an apology, it was about putting him in a bad light.

          The lawyer pushing for the release of the tapes, was able to give the impression that the police were hiding something. When in fact, they are protecting innocent teens on the 48 hours of tape. Why didn’t the parents and their lawyers go in to view the tapes in private? Because it doesn’t fit their narrative that they are being kept in the dark.

      • The million dollar question is when you review the Georgia Bar Association membership Crump is not licenced to practice in Georgia so how is he a Johnson family lawyer? I believe Chevene King is their only actually lawyer and Crump was brought on boad solely to run his mouth in the media.

    • There are many similarites to calling to the public. It seems every time a young black dies under suspicious circumstances there is call of a cover up. I do agree that some evidence SHOULD have been collect if for anything the investigators integrety at this point.
      Prior to the investigation being completed Nobody was getting info. including the parents. And prior to the findings of the autopsy the parents believed it was murder.
      Some of the questions can be answered.
      Why was there blood and his face swollen? He was upside down decomposing, so there is seeping and skin slippage. A dead body only loses it body temp. @ 1 degree per hr. He was inside a thick mat that held his body temp. much longer causing faster decomp.
      The mat was also sitting on concrete his head was being compressed by the floor and his body weight.

      Why would he try to reach into a 6ft mat?
      He was inches away from being 6ft. himself. Teenagers are not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have two myself, and was one at one time!

      His shoulders were 19 inches apart but the mat was 14 inches wide. How did could he fit? They only mention the area of measurement @ his feet. Which obviously is not as wide as where his head rested on the concrete. His head is not wider then his shoulders. The mat is pliable somewhat.
      Well, we do not know exactly how he fell in. A teacher moved the mat and tried pulling him out before learning he was deceased. But logic would say gravity helped his body fall to the bottom which is why he could not get out. The head itself weighs between 8 to 10 pounds he also had dread whixh can be quite heavy. He also was found with earbuds in his hand. His other hand was at his face. In fact rigor mortis kept it that way.

      His finger nails were clipped? This claim comes from the parents stating he wore his nails long because it was girly for a guy to clip his nails. Okay. Is it not girly for a guy to wear long nails like girls too? I suppose this claim is an attempt to claim a cover up of evidence.
      How many parents of an almost 18 yr. old check finger nail grooming daily?

      His body was stuffed with newspaper and his organs were missing? Found during independent autopsy.
      This is another claim by Crump. If there were no lungs to reexamine then the examiner can not examine if their was positional asphyxia like the first autopsy discovered.
      The newspaper who knows Funeral directors are cruel characters.

      There are conflicting reports about brusing to the face. The EMS saw a brusie near the jaw, the medical examiner saw no brusing. The second independent examiner saw a neck injury ruling it homicide.
      I will go with the EMS report because they saw the body mostly undistrubed. And if they saw a bruise it fits with positional asphyxia because the way the blood pools under the skin postmortem.
      However, that the medical examiner had not noted a bruise may suggest the autopsy was not through.
      But no one other then an independent examiner hired by the family saw a neck injury. And this is after claiming all organs including the brain were removed and the body packed with newspaper so……

      Seeing how there are still conspiracy theories floating around about GZ. I am not suprised an accidential death like this is producing many many theories. Who would want to harm him, and the family has yet to even name suspect(s).

  13. George Zimmerman juror: Employer wants to help

    A Central Florida employer is offering a job to the George Zimmerman juror who says her life was ruined by the trial.

    Doug Kaplan, managing partner at Gravis Marketing, said an “Inside Edition” report on juror Maddy’s plight “hit a nerve.”

    Maddy said she had a lost friends and a full-time nursing home job because she served on the jury that acquitted Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin’s fatal shooting. Maddy also revealed that she has received death threats and that her family is close to being evicted from her four-bedroom home in Seminole County.

    Kaplan also has set up a donation page for Maddy.

    But another reader blasted Maddy and gave an example of the hostility the former juror faces: “No sympathy for this lady … cry me a river … she’s getting what she deserves for setting a murderer free.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/blogs/tv-guy/os-george-zimmerman-juror-employer-wants-to-help-20131102,0,3472407.post

    ONLY in America can you serve on a jury, DECIDE NOT to stay silent BUT go on National TV PROMOTING yourself & your own agenda, GET a donation page & a new job. ALL because the jury FOLLOWED the law to allow GZ to go free. In addition, Maddy’s new employer gets more publicity than he could likely afford to pay for. I’m outraged.

  14. My two bits on Professor Sullivan –

    He from Harvard Law gave a presentation on the SYG controversy October 29th to a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee.

    His scholarly analysis of the evolution of SYG and the current state of its application is articulate and very useful. It serves as a worthy template for further discussion, pro and con.

    The professor’s scrunching of the Trayvon Martin case to the SYG debate is also useful to examine, but not for the purpose that Sullivan intended.

    The professor does lay out his own prejudices. He concedes that, technically, the jury verdict was correct, but that he considers GZ to be the “first-aggressor (legal term) in a “moral sense”. He “suspects” that GZ followed TM for no other reason than TM’s “blackness”. He suspects that GZ views blackness a “crude proxy for criminality”.

    The specifics of the GZ/TM case are that it was a self-defense case. Trying to understand it and make use of it for argumentation in an SYG application can only be done by distorting the basic facts, applying generous doses of speculation, and tying it all up with an appeal, not to the rule of law, but to emotion.

    Sullivan states as an “incontrovertible” fact that an “armed adult followed and killed an unarmed and innocent black child”.

    The “fact” as asserted here by Sullivan is not incontrovertible.

    The incontrovertible basic facts are that an individual, who was armed, followed an individual who was not armed. Neither individual knew whether the other was armed or unarmed. There was an altercation wherein the unarmed individual was observed beating up the armed individual. At some point, the armed individual drew his weapon and fired one shot at the unarmed individual, killing him.

    Implicit in Sullivan’s framing of “incontrovertible fact” is that the armed individual followed and killed the unarmed individual because of race. Therein can be seen the sophistry of lawyerly argumentation.

    The professor states at page 6 that: 1.) it was the SYG law that “emboldened” GZ to, 2.) “disregard the command” of the 911 dispatcher and that 3.)the following of TM was an “arrogation” of a law enforcement function by GZ.

    How the professor knows that it was SYG law that motivated, much less “emboldened” GZ to do anything is not apparent. It is speculation on his part.

    By incorrectly asserting that GZ disregarded the command of the 911 dispatcher, it is the professor who is doing the disregarding in disregarding the evidence produced at trial – namely the testimony of the dispatcher who testified that he did not give a command, could not give a command, and was trained to not give commands. Here the professor is not speculating, but simply ignores facts fatal to his argument.

    The professor in asserting that following an individual was an “arrogation” of a police power muddles matters further. Arrogate means that GZ had no right to follow TM. That is what the professor seems to believe but such an argument rings hollow especially since there is no law prohibiting “following”. So he speaks of arrogation of the “law enforcement function” when he should say “usurpation” to describe the point he wants to make, even though the basic point is pointless.

    To be fair, the professor acknowledges that there is no law against following, but that concession is tucked away in footnote 121 relating to another section of his presentation.

    Elsewhere, the professor offers the old “but for” argument. “But for the fact that Zimmerman exited his vehicle that evening, Trayvon Martin would be alive.

    “But for” arguments are speculations. There are many”but fors” in the Trayvon Martin tragedy, not just the one selected by Professor Sullivan.

    ‘But for” GZ carrying a gun,” but for” GZ following TM, “but for” GZ going to the store that night.

    There are other “but fors” closer to the tragic confrontation – “But for” TM not going straight home, “but for” TM not attacking GZ.

    There are still “but fors” preceding the confrontation – “But for” TM not getting kicked out of his mother’s home, “but for” TM not getting suspended from school, etc.

    Professor Sullivan, in the role of amateur psychiatrist, uses the post-trial Shellie/George confrontation to “demonstrate” how the SYG law “animates aggressive forms of behavior” (from GZ and his “Wild West mentality”). The professor presents a small portion of an emotional Shellie phone call to 911.

    To be fair, again, the professor qualifies the use of the phone call with “if it is true” and he buries the rest of the story in a footnote that references the exact opposite.

    By stating “if it’s true” the professor goes on to offer a speculation totally dependent on something that he knows is not true, or wishes (despite Shellie’s recantation) were true.

    At the end of his presentation, the professor saunters off his own academic gangplank. He pronounces that the jury verdict in the GZ case ‘tells Floridians that they can incorrectly profile young black children, kill them, and be protected by a legal justification if even tried for the resulting death.”

    Professor Sullivan would never dare make such a fallacious argument in court, or, perhaps he would.

    At one point, Sullivan even describes Trayvon as a “defenseless child”, somehow overlooking the fact that the defenseless child was beating the crap out of GZ at one point. Go figure.

    But he is not addressing the court here. He is appearing in a televised, highly-publicized, somewhat choreographed Senate hearing where the footnotes and caveats will be ignored, where the Crump/Julison narrative will be reinforced and the rule of law delegitimized.

    • What I find incredible is that here is a man, a law professor, a HARVARD law professor, who was going to be testifying before the Senate as an expert of sorts on the TM case as it relates to SYG laws…

      …and the very first footnote accredits others for doing his research for him?!

      Though he adds the disclaimer that he accepts responsibility for any errors they may have made, I take that to mean he didn’t even bother to go behind them and check their facts and sources? Or maybe it was just a way of establishing a wall of plausible deniability to hide behind?

      In any event, if he didn’t have any knowledge about the subject and didn’t have the time or inclination to research the subject material for himself, he should have responsibly declined to speak at the hearing.

      The last person the Senate needed to hear from was someone else with an opinion but little or no facts… they could have dragged in some random stranger off the sidewalk if they just wanted another earful of the narrative.

      • Nivico –

        There is nothing untoward about the assistance that Professor Sullivan used in preparing his testimony. Judges all have law clerks who do the grunge work; i.e. researching the case law and cases. Lawyers do the same with law associates. The same with the Supreme Court. The opinion and the testimony is that of Professor Sullivan.

        In his testimony, so, of course, he accepts all responsibility. the Professor is not going to go around and double check everything that everyone is doing in the collaboration, otherwise, he might as well sit down and do it all himself. MOM and West didn’t sit down and research all the case law themselves for the motions they had to address in court. That was handled by their assistants.

        Sullivan did not testify as an expert on the Trayvon Martin case, but as someone with expert testimony of offer on the subject of SYG laws.

        Professor Sullivan knows what side of the issue he is on. He does not need to establish any wall of plausible deniability to hide behind. He has nothing to hide, and as far as I can see, and is hiding nothing.

        His general discussion of the evolution and present status of the SYG laws is a good point from which to take the debate further, both pro and con.

        The whole point of having him testify was to have him testify about his opinion on SYG.

        Where I find his testimony sorely lacking and misleading is in the misstatement of the facts of the GZ/TM case, and the subsequent misapplication of that to the discussion surrounding SYG.

    • Hooson- Great analysis, I think it serves to remember that most of these professors are not trial lawyers, many have never argue cases before a judge or even been inside a courthouse outside of some school exercise. Their research is done by undergrads who may or may not do a good job at it.

      If you notice though he is supposed to present legal precedents and reasoning why the law is bad his arguments are speculative, anecdotal and emotional and even those are then buttressed by the comments in the footnotes. To me it was just theater as if it was aimed at a group in just another seminar.

      • bori:

        I believe that Professor Sullivan has argued cases at trial when he worked in the Public Defender’s Office in Washington, D.C. for a number of years.

        Ironically, much of his clientele was similarly situated as were MOM’s clients. It would be interesting to see a debate or colloquium on these issues between Sullivan and MOM or West. Mom might have some areas of agreement w/Sullivan as regards SYG.

        • Wasn’t he the Director of the PD’s office, that would not give him much time to try cases.

          Anyhow, I believe you are correct he and MOM share similar opinions regarding SYG laws it seems. Though it appears that Professor Sullivan is opposed to the law on racial grounds, while MOM sees it as unnecessary.

          That would probably be the case if more colleagues of them would not try to abuse the system for financial gain, filling dubious suits .

          • Bori –

            As Director, you are correct, as a rule he wouldn’t be trying cases, but I am making an assumption that he wouldn’t have gotten the Director job without some previous frontline experience. Assumptions can be risky. 🙂

            • Thanks, I was just curious. It does appear that he spent some time as a staff attorney before leaving to join a large DC firm and then returning a Director of the PDS for 2 years.

              Just to be clear I did not intent to minimize his experience but to point out that many law professors spent their whole career in a theoretical setting of the classroom which insulates their views.

    • Hooson – great points! With your permission, I’d like to make this topic its own thread and send an invite to the professor to join the discussion of the thread. We are a diverse group here and if I can convince the professor and perhaps some lawyers to join the discussion, please ensure the guests are treated with respect and no name calling.

      Perhaps we can gain a fuller understanding and clue in some people who have been given a voice on the topic but may be lacking some facts.

      To be sure I’m contacting the right guy, this is the man who testified on the hearing, right? http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/10870/Sullivan

  15. Art- While I agree with your point to some extent, we can’t forget the reason that so many still view this case as a miscarriage of justice and are willing to lash out at anyone involved in the case on GZ’s behalf. There are still media reports that get the facts of the case wrong repeatedly and affects the perceptions of those that she comes in contact with. Her attempt to deflect the blame as some are seeing for GZ getting acquitted failed, she should have kept her mouth shut or showed some conviction on her statements.

  16. What I find absolutely astounding is the number of Traybots who still cling to the TM never touch GZ with nothing short of a death grip in the face of Daryl Parks admitting right here to Diana Tennis during the trial that TM did as matter of fact beat GZ did bash his head on the sidewalk and did try to smother GZ. Watch the video….it’s shocking what he admits to and they had the audacity to continue the railroad attempt.

    • Cap’n I think if a video turned up that showed TM hiding to ambush GZ and then sucker punching GZ they would still not believe that TM had any culpability in what happened.

  17. such vivid imaginations!

    Bonnie Thurmond Must watch. Pause this video at 3:17 and you will see GZ. The arrow will point to him. 4:41 looks like Trayvon Martin, pause and read the captions at 27:16, 33:46, 35:29, and 36:24

    • Making sure you saw this. LOL Freddie Leatherhead, working his lil Bots. what 5 he has left. GIMME MONEY! He wants his own trash can 🙂

      Finally, I am extremely pleased to announce that one of the most disturbed and persistent of the right-wing-wacko trolls who have been obsessed with inventing and spreading intentionally false and malicious statements about Crane-Station and myself was permanently banned from youtube for violating their terms of service.

      With the assistance of others to whom we are most grateful but shall not mention in order to protect their privacy, we filed complaints with youtube prompting them to kick the offender and his multiple sock-puppet identities off the island.

      Good riddance.

      We have reached that time of the month when we ask our readers to consider making a donation. We cannot maintain this blog without your assistance.

      Fred
      http://frederickleatherman.com/

      • ///Finally, I am extremely pleased to announce that one of the most disturbed and persistent of the right-wing-wacko trolls who have been obsessed with inventing and spreading intentionally false and malicious statements about Crane-Station and myself was permanently banned from youtube for violating their terms of service. /// Translation…..I would like to thank my sheep for helping me prevent the truth about myself and my convict wife from becoming too far spread. Consider celebrating by forking over your Obama entitlement to help rachel an myself fuel our chemical addictions without having to work.

        • I just don’t get the begging. If you cant afford the site then don’t do it. Isnt his one of the free things too? Sorry, but I see nothing there that I would pay someone for to keep up their household, but that’s me. And sometimes its a tone of threat to me that if he gets evicted its some how someone in blogesphere’s fault and not their own. I say he is a con right up there, or wants to be just like the Trayparents and Chumpsters. JMHO

    • Well I guess every black and hispanic I see shooting @ the range are racist! Silly me, I thought gun ownership was linked to the Constitution.

    • The increase is in “symbolic racism” and how do they define this:

      “Symbolic racism is less obvious than blatant or overt racism. It deals more with attitudes than actions, suggestions instead of slurs. The blatant racism of Jim Crow laws, which relegated blacks to the backs of buses and subjected them to many other inequalities, have been replaced, the researchers assert, by more discreet forms of discrimination. These are reflected in wide support for policies that statistically hinder blacks, such as longer prison sentences, and opposition to programs that may benefit them, such as welfare.”

      The article then discusses another study that claimed that the more guns in a State the more gun homicides but buried or not mentioned at all was the correlation between the black population and the homicide rate. For instance, the study found that for every .001 increase in gun possession there was a 12.9% increase in gun homicides but at the same time according to the study for every .001 increase in the black proportion of of the population there is an increase in gun homicides of 82.9%.

      Another tibdit from the same study is that for every .001 increase in the incarceration rate there is a drop of 7.8% in gun homicide. In essence the black population is a better indication of gun violence and tough crime sentencing does lower the rate of crime but neither of these findings are highlighted or even mention in the article. Chart for the second study below:

      http://ajph.aphapublications.org/action/showPopup?citid=citart1&id=tbl3&doi=10.2105%2FAJPH.2013.301409

      Interesting also is that this is a British study and their biases against guns and gun ownership are evident throughout in their commentary. While they use symbolic racism as a main measure to get at their conclusion, other measures like Black violence stereotype which would be a better measure of racism did not get the results that it seems they hoped. Study bellow:

      http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0077552?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%20plosone/PLoSONE%20(PLOS%20ONE%20Alerts:%20New%20Articles)#pone-0077552-t001

  18. On April 7, 1994, Federal Express Flight 705, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30 cargo jet carrying electronics across the United States from Memphis, Tennessee to San Jose, California, experienced an attempted hijacking for the purpose of a suicide attack.
    Auburn Calloway, a Federal Express employee facing possible dismissal for lying about his previous flying experience, boarded the scheduled flight as a deadheading passenger with a guitar case carrying several hammers and a speargun. He intended to disable the aircraft’s cockpit voice recorder before take-off and, once airborne, kill the crew using the blunt force of the hammers so their injuries would appear consistent with an accident rather than a hijacking. The speargun would be a last resort. He would then crash the aircraft while just appearing to be an employee killed in an accident. This would make his family eligible for a $2.5 million life insurance policy paid by Federal Express.[1]
    Calloway’s plan was unsuccessful. Despite severe injuries, the crew was able to fight back, subdue Calloway and land the aircraft safely. An attempt at a mental health defense was unsuccessful and Calloway was subsequently convicted of multiple charges including attempted murder, attempted air piracy and interference with flight crew operations. He received two consecutive life sentences. Calloway’s appeal was successful in having his conviction for interference ruled as a lesser included offense of attempted air piracy.[2] The crew members were left with permanent, disabling injuries and have not flown professionally since.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

  19. I feel bad for Maddie, but she did it to herself. What she said to the media hurt George’s chances of being able to get a job and live free of death threats. If she hadn’t done that, it would have still been awhile before the hate died down if it ever did. What she did decreased the odds of that happening any time soon. She threw fresh meat to the hate mobs at a critical time. It was under reported, but there were murders and serious injuries associated with those rallies in the early days after the acquittal. She probably added to that.

    Shellie might find herself in a similar situation if she’s not careful.

    • There is something inherently un-American about any group that demands blind obedience. I see this more and more often, by blacks who wanted Maddie to convict because she was black. By Conservatives, by Progressives who completely obliverate anyone who dares opine different than the established talking points. The either you are with me or against me attitude has taken hold and it is dominating American life, there are people who will defend the President even when he clearly lied about the healthcare law.

      Some people are able to overlook this and move on, but there are others that will have their lives ruined because they stepped out of the reservation. Maddie, imo, thought that she could say mea culpa and that would be the end of it, she now knows that it is not that easy.

  20. Capt. Which lies are they referring to? The fact that Fred was a bad lawyer who screwed his client Darold Stenson? The ex-con wife who has had appeal after appeal affirmed her conviction? Or the fact that he is a con man bulking his low info readers out of their hard earned Snap benefits? Freddy is delusional and full of self righteous gas.

  21. Hi Nettles. Been taking a break from the Trayvon show. Dipping my toes back into the water and seeing that the cretins are still up to the same old, same old.

  22. I have managed to successfully convince a group of hyper militant hardcore Traybots that it was really mark osterman who killed TM and GZ was just the pre-arranged fallguy for their plan to kill a black kid. I even gave them DNA “evidence” to back it up ( there was no measureable GZ DNA on the keltec trigger or the slide). This just proves once again there is nothing that it to asinine or absurd that they are willing to belive in order to avoid facing an angry out of control intoxicated Trayvon martin attacked and relentlessly beat George Zimmerman.

  23. My sympathy for Maddy just diminished when I saw the video of her latest media interview. She doesn’t even see that it was what she said to the media that is the source of her current problems. She also doesn’t seem to realize that GZ is going through much worse for saving his own life and that she made things worse for him.

    I don’t think she’s the brightest bulb on the tree.

  24. Angela Corey on Stand Your Ground law: ‘People who aren’t good people are using it’
    Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-11-03/story/angela-corey-stand-your-ground-law-people-who-arent-good-people-are#ixzz2jhakDKic

    “But 99 percent of the people who use deadly force to defend themselves “in their home or vehicle or on the street … never even get in a police car,” Corey said.

    She cited the case of a local cabdriver who has twice shot attackers while he was being robbed at gunpoint. He was not charged either time.”

    Corey did not cite a case where a person using the SYG provisions resulted in them walking free who would have been convicted under previous self-defense laws. However she did claim “People who aren’t good people are using it”

    • Obviously in her mind in addition to prosecutor she now a judge of who is a “good person” and who is a “bad person”. So if a “bad person” is attacked he has no recourse but to take it and hope their is a “good person” around to help since they can’t defend themselves. Whatever happened to laws should be applied evenly to everyone?

  25. Stand Your ground has been affirmed by the SCOTUS since 1895! The Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Beard v. U.S.[5] (158 U.S. 550 (1895)) that a man who was “on his premises” when he came under attack and “…did not provoke the assault, and had at the time reasonable grounds to believe, and in good faith believed, that the deceased intended to take his life, or do him great bodily harm…was not obliged to retreat, nor to consider whether he could safely retreat, but was entitled to stand his ground.”[6][7] However, the Supreme Court decision did not create case law impugning a states authority to either adopt or invalidate stand-your-ground law.

  26. Trayvon Martin was not innocent. He was guilty of being black in presumably restricted public space. For decades, Jim Crow laws made this crime statutory. They codified the spaces into which black bodies could not pass without encountering legal punishment. They made public blackness a punishable offense. The 1964 Civil Rights Act removed the legal barriers but not the social sanctions and potentially violent consequences of this “crime.” George Zimmerman’s slaying of Trayvon Martin—and the subsequent campaign to smear Martin—is the latest and most jarring reminder that it is often impossible for a black body to be innocent.

    About the Author

    Melissa Harris-Perry
    Melissa Harris-Perry
    Melissa Harris-Perry is professor of political science at Tulane University, where she is founding director of the…
    Also by the Author

    The Struggle for Voting Rights Continues (Supreme Court, The Constitution, Politics)
    In the wake of the Supreme Court’s devastating decision, citizens need to litigate, vote and pass a constitutional amendment.

    Melissa Harris-Perry
    What Difference Will Same-Sex Marriage Make? (Feminism, Supreme Court, Law, Society)
    Sooner or later, marriage equality will win. What happens to marriage then?

    Melissa Harris-Perry
    Black communities in the United States spent much of late March expressing outrage about Zimmerman’s actions and the Sanford, Florida, police department’s inaction. But the anger and grief are not exclusively about this single act. They are prompted by the ways the case reveals the continuing subordination of full citizenship for black Americans
    http://www.thenation.com/article/167085/what-its-be-problem#.

  27. Text Size:AAA

    VIEW LARGE
    WASHINGTON —The Department of Justice is not done looking into the death of Trayvon Martin.

    IMAGES: MANY LOOKS OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN
    Zimmerman
    Take a look at the many looks of George Zimmerman.

    MORE
    Attorney General Eric Holder said Monday the probe into the shooting, and any potential federal charges against George Zimmerman, is ongoing.

    “The investigation, or the inquiry, the review that we’re doing is still underway. I’m not sure exactly how much longer that will take, but when we get to a point where we are able to make a determination, we’ve tried to construct the case in such a way that we’ll be able to share as much information, not just make an announcement, but share as much information as we can, with regard to that determination,” said Holder.

    The attorneys for Martin’s family have also said in the past that a civil suit is still a possibility, but nothing has been filed.

    Zimmerman was found not guilty of second-degree murder in July.

    Read more: http://www.wesh.com/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/attorney-general-eric-holder-review-of-trayvon-martin-shooting-still-ongoing/-/14266478/22796890/-/409us0/-/index.html#ixzz2ji4FZMun

    • I know this will be SHOCKING but i think WESH screwed up and latched onto Holder’s MONDAY sept 30th comment that I posted above which was BEFORE the SYG hearing

      Attorney General Eric Holder said ——> Monday <—— the probe into the shooting, and any potential federal charges against George Zimmerman, is ongoing.

          • I’m not sure how much the state of the internal organs matters. Neither autopsy indicated any external injuries. Except for a scrape on the finger in the 1st autopsy report, and an injury to the right side of the neck in the 2nd that was supposedly the cause of death (hard to believe).

            • Coreshift- The reason is because the hypoxia (lack of breathing) kills brain cells, cause bruising in the lungs and internal hemorrhage(bleeding) as the body struggles to breathe. Absence of this can indicate a different cause of death. At the same time the new autopsy does not say why the internal bleeding led to death, either. He does not say how the bleeding cause the death.

              I have not read the first autopsy report so I don’t know their findings other than it was positional asphyxia.

  28. The docket seems consistent with Senator Grahams statement in that exhibits were returned to the defense
    10/29/2013 RFRE RECEIPT FOR RELEASE OF EVIDENCE
    10/24/2013 MEMO MEMORANDUM TO THE JUDGE: EXHIBITS ETNERED AT TRIAL FOR THIS CASE WERE RELEASED.
    10/24/2013 MEMO HOWEVER, WE STILL HAVE EXHIBITS FROM THE BOND MOTION HEARING THAT WERE ENTERED

      • Get out the butthurt ointment! more failure and diasppoint ment for team skittles! The Sanford Police Department is backing off a proposal to ban Neighborhood Watch members from carrying guns, but it still wants volunteers to leave their firearms at home and will make that recommendation at a community meeting Tuesday night, police Chief Cecil Smith said Monday.

        “We originally came out with a stern, ‘You should not,'” Smith said. “We took a second look at it.”

        Smith now recommends that people forgo their guns while they are performing their Neighborhood Watch duties. Smith said he could legally have dictated a ban, but he decided it was better to include people rather than to exclude them.
        http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-sanford-neighborhood-watch-guns-20131104,0,7629896.story

        • I want to know if a person volunteers to be Neighborhood Watch, are they ever off-duty? George was going shopping when he spotted Trayvon in the rain up in Taafee’s lawn. It’s a myth that he ever patrolled the neighborhood looking for suspicious people. He tried to recruit block captains.

          It appears to be a tough sell to get others involved. After this case, I imagine it’s even harder.

          • I was wondering the same thing, nettles… NW is more or less a 24/7/365 obligation, if you’re at home you’re on watch.

            There is no clear delineation between a resident’s private home life and his or her NW participation, they basically go hand in hand.

        • “Under the new rules, volunteers will have to sign a document holding the city harmless if they carry a gun or behave in other unauthorized ways, Smith said.”

          Does anyone know if there was any sort of settlement between Martin’s family and the city of Sanford / SPD?

          • Not that I am aware of, I think that the Crumpsters would have filed against the City had they been able too. To me, imo both the SYG issue as the NW issue are red herrings to distract from the actual circumstances and keep people distracted from what happened. A misguided young man tried to bite more than he could chew. These side issues which played little or no part in the incident and will do nothing to prevent future similar tragedies are just distractions.

  29. Let’s examine the many successes an accomplishments by Ms Fulton and the scheme team
    1. the florida stand your ground commision found nothing wrong with syg and it will remain in place
    2. the senate judiciary committe told the scheme team that SYG is a states rights issue and not a federal one
    3. the dream defenders and occupy tallahasse got told to go pund sand
    4. the democratic clowns who proposed changes to SYG were told by the GOP majority their proposal will never make it past committe
    5. a jury of GZ peers found him not guilty
    6. They were told SYG has been affirmed by the SCOTUS in united states vs beard
    7. The judiciary committe told the scheme team eric witholder has decided against federal charges
    8. the african american scheme team sidekick from havard law agreed that the state verdict should not be over ruled
    9. today eric witholder directly said he feels the vast majority of 2/26 was properly resolved at trial

    so after almost two years of scheme team and martin family antics what exactly have they accomplished again?

    • Lotsa people made lotsa money. They created a number of ‘Trayvon Voters’. Crump’s penis looks bigger and he has national recognition. They created another martyr to parade around as evidence of how racist the US and the ‘system’ are.

      • The NAACP got a few more dues paying members and can still pretend that it is still relevant. Hollywood can trot out some more prejudiced. bias movies and actually get people to see them. Liberal Arts colleges can now get enough students to their African Studies and other such courses. Civil Rights lawyers will get new cases, does not matter it civil rights was even an issue.

  30. Bonnie Thurmond 3 November 12:16

    Finally, other people are seeing that GZ didn’t kill Trayvon.

    Comment history

    Bonnie Thurmond

    Bonnie Thurmond 3 November 12:13

    It must have been Mark Osterman that said Go, when GZ said shit he’s running.

    Cindy Richard

    Cindy Richard 3 November 12:11

    I am so glad that someone else is supporting me on this, because I have researched this case inside and out. It has been said by many experts whom has investigated this case also, but not allowing this evidence into the media nor in court. The true “Murderer” was Mark Osterman the same person who was seen in the white t-shirt, the person who urged Zimmerman in what type of gun to purchase and the special bullets. There was -1% of Trayvon Martins DNA found on Zimmerman, and more of this other unknown person of the 14 blood spots on Zimmerman’s jacket. Mark Osterman was with Zimmerman in the truck during the NE call, he is heard in Trayvon’s phone while Rachel was still on the phone call.
    Let me locate the phone call in my file and forward it to you.

    Tyrese Jenkins

    Tyrese Jenkins 3 November 12:09

    I dont believe the self inflicted injuries hypothesis. Try reaching behind your head and try seeing how hard you can slap yourself. The shoulder joint does not allow you to do that. Slef inury is impossible simply due to anatomical structure. Its far more likely he let John Good, Taafee , or Osterpunk punch him a few times.

    Jan Brenke

    Jan Brenke 3 November 11:54

    GZ was UNSUPERVISED that night.

    Bonnie Thurmond

    Bonnie Thurmond 3 November 11:51

    Is it possible that GZ may have just been washing blood off his hands, and not gun powder residue? Blood from his self-inflicted injuries.

    View all comments

    Original post

    Tyrese Jenkins

    Tyrese Jenkins 3 November 11:38

    i’m having some suspicions that Trayvon was not actually shot by Killerman but by one of the accomplices. The justice group has overlooked an important piece of evidence that supports this idea . There was no measurable Killerman DNA found on the trigger or the slide cocker of the gun! Exhibit DMS-21C Swab collected from slide
    Due to the limited DNA results obtained from Exhibit DMS-21C, this data is insufficient for inclusion purposes. Resuits are consistent with the presence of at least one male individual
    No determination can be made regarding the possible contribution of George Michael Zimmerman (JR-2) or Trayvon Benjamin Martin (ME-3) to the limited DNA results obtained from Exhibit DMS-21C,

    Exhibit DM8-21B Swab collected from trigger
    Due to the Limited nature of the DNA results obtained from Exhibit DMS-21B, the data obtained is not interpretable.

  31. Have you guys seen this video? This baby looks as though she is hearing the most beautiful violin music in the world, like she is feeling mature emotions. Nettles, I think they said she is a northern Ontario baby…

    • http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=518208

      “Of course, none of us condone violence,” Adams said. “However, under the facts and the circumstances of this incident, we believe that the concerned citizen acted well within the law and as a result he was released.”

      Adams described the concerned citizen, who has not been identified, as “very brave.”

      “He could have run away,” Adams said. “He chose not to.”

  32. I can’t believe I got a tweet from Natalie Jackson chastising me for spreading lies about a dead boy because I pointed out that banging GZs head against concrete was not “doing nothing wrong.” She tweets no differently than an average traybot.

  33. I think this is meant for Robert Sr.

    Natalie Jackson ‏@NatJackEsq 15 Jun
    U Sir…r no Harper Lee & you son is neither Tom Robinson nor Boo Radley!! STOP BLAMING THE WORLD…UR son killed an innocent teenager.

    • If it isn’t her, she’d have come out by now and said so. Sadly, this is likely hrer and I agree, totally unprofessional. What is wrong in Florida that it allows its lawyers to act this way. It reflects badly.

      It’s not lost on me, that the family of Kendrick Johnson when needing a second opinion went to Florida to find a “professional” to give a finding.

      Gov. Scott knew just what prosecutor’s office would conduct a second investigation that would give him the charge he desired when the public demanded an arrest (based on the lies the professional lawyers were spreading).

      Florida is a mess.

  34. Here’s the donation page.
    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mother-of-8-threatened-loses-everything-for-serving-on-the-george-zimmerman-jury

    I think he made a mistake saying Maddie was suffering for what GZ did. That cut off any possibility of donations for anyone who sympathizes with George. He’s suffering the same thing from the same mob mentality mentioned on this page. Maddie’s problem is that she tried to join that mob and they rejected her and turned against her.

    I noticed Traybots don’t seem to like Shellie much, either. They love that she’s saying her husband is violent, but they don’t like her any better than George. She is foolish to use the media to hurt him.

    • The time for this mother of eight to claim hardship was during jury selection…

      So why didn’t she?

      It’s troubling to me that 1) it was reported that she appeared disinterested and disengaged at points during the trial, 2) that she was the lone juror to vote guilty on the ridiculous 2nd degree murder charge (when even the prosecutors knew they hadn’t met their burden of BARD), 3) she is the lone juror to decline the protection of anonymity the court extended and revealed her face on national television, and 4) now she’s begging for money.

      Serving on a jury should be viewed as a civic duty, but in a high profile case some may view it as opportunity knocking at the door.

      • She seems to be a typical Traybot. I don’t know how MOM let her on the jury. He said she was a model juror, but I disagree. She probably didn’t pay much attention to what the defense said and the other jurors had to tell her.

        Everyone seems to want a piece of the profit. Even Shellie’s lawyers are doing that. I think they influenced her to rush to divorce. She’s being tempted to try to get some of the money. The greed surrounding this tragedy and trial is frightening.

  35. Trayvon Martin Support Page-The Fight For Justice Continues
    3 hours ago
    Attorney General Eric Holder stated yesterday the probe into the shooting, and any potential federal charges against the child murderer, is ongoing. Senator Graham, pump your brakes, it’s not over just yet! We will continue to provide emails filled with evidence and information for your submission. Stay tuned. Thank you.

  36. This is NOT a surprise to me. I had CNN on whenever I had my television on and now I can’t stand to watch the way they report a story I’ve read about online. For me, they’ve become the most untrusted in network news.

    “The cable news network suffered its lowest Monday-Friday primetime average in over a year for the week of Oct. 28 to Nov. 1.”

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/tv-ratings-cnn-suffers-worst-653114

    Taking people’s lies to air, will drown the ratings…..just saying.

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