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Open Thread – Nov. 9th

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75 thoughts on “Open Thread – Nov. 9th

  1. Bonnie Thurmond Important timelines: 7:11:33-GZ says TM is running, at 7:13:10-GZ does not know TM location, at 7:13:41 call ends to the Sanford Police, and at 7:16:00-7:16:59-call from Rachel goes dead. This must be when Rachel said she heard someone push TM, but was it GZ?. He said he didn’t know TM location. Was he able to find TM or did he have to call one of his accomplices? More than likely he had to call one of his accomplices.
    9 minutes ago

    • Rachel’s call ends at 7:15:38. Jenna Lauer’s 911 call with the screams for help start at 7:16:11. Shot heard at 7:16:56

      So we know GZ wasn’t behind him or following him up to the time that Rachel’s call ends. Trayvon did not convey GZ was “chasing” him, according to Rachel.

        • As far as what Rachel truly may have heard or not heard in that last fateful minute we can’t be sure at all.

          Had Crump and company not dragged their feet to keep Rachel away from investigators, the investigators might have been able to interview Rachel in a timely fashion when her memory and impressions were clearer and would not have been influenced by the slanted news reporting, Crump’s leading questions, and BDLR’s thorough trashing of what was left of those fragile impressions

  2. This is why neither Angela Corey or BDLR get away with doing with withholding evidence and other shenanigans. This prosecutor in TX withheld evidence that convicted a guy who served 25 years in prison, the prosecutor’s sentence 10 days in jail.

    “Even before a Texas court vacated Mr. Morton’s conviction, his lawyers alleged that Mr. Anderson, the prosecutor in his case, had deliberately withheld evidence that would have exonerated him. During Mr. Morton’s trial, the judge had ordered Mr. Anderson to turn over any such evidence and received only a few documents in return. In fact, Mr. Anderson possessed many documents he did not turn over, including a transcript of a phone conversation revealing that the Mortons’ 3-year-old son had described his mother’s killer as a “monster” who was not his father.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/09/opinion/a-prosecutor-is-punished.html?_r=1&

  3. Much of the coverage of the Marissa Alexander case (previously touched on Legal Insurrection here and here) laments that Ms. Alexander was sentenced to a statutory mandatory sentence of 20 years in prison for having “merely” fired a “warning shot”.

    The actual evidence of the case shows that this claim has about the same degree of veracity as does that of claims that Trayvon Martin was shot merely for the crime of wearing a hoodie and possessing Skittles. Meaning, none.
    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/09/the-myth-of-marissa-alexanders-warning-shot/

  4. Where’s Al and Jesse? Where’s Eric Holder? Where’s the NAACP? Where are the marches and rallies and demands for justice?

    Emani Moss Update: Ga. girl found in trash was starved, abused and had tried to run away, police say
    comments34
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    By Crimesider Staff Topics Daily Blotter
    Eman Moss (left) and Tiffany Moss are both charged in the murder of 10-year-old Emani Moss. / CBS Atlanta (CBS/AP) LAWRENCEVILLE, Ga. – A 10-year-old girl whose malnourished body was found in a suburban Atlanta trash bin had tried to run away from home and showed up at school with bruises and other signs of abuse, police reports show.
    Emani Moss’ burned and emaciated body was found in a trash bin in unincorporated Lawrenceville on Saturday. The girl’s father, Eman Moss, and the stepmother, Tiffany Moss, have been charged with murder, concealing a body, and child cruelty. They are being held without bond in the Gwinnett County
    jail.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57610857-504083/emani-moss-update-ga-girl-found-in-trash-was-starved-abused-and-had-tried-to-run-away-police-say/

  5. Watching an old movie Bogart and Hepburn…”The African Queen” love old movies. Just made me think, I guess by todays world, they would change the name, for a boat by that name would be racist… by some idiots anyway… crap getting old….

  6. Upcoming Coulter Appearance at USC Drawing Threats Online
    Coulter’s appearance sparks threats of protest, violencehttp://www.truthrevolt.org/news/upcoming-coulter-appearance-usc-drawing-threats-online?utm_source=TruthRevolt&utm_campaign=9d11f381e1-11_9_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_206ceaaef0-9d11f381e1-156681913

  7. This is our 752nd post. We have put a lot of heart and soul into this website and we get thousands of views each day. We are closing in on 2 million views and 200,000 comments. Yet, scarcely anyone donates any money and it is increasingly difficult to justify the time and effort when only about a dozen people donate a few hundred dollars each month. We do not expect to get rich doing this, but it would be nice to pay our bills.

    Please make a donation today, if you have not already done so.

    If everyone contributed $5, we would not be reduced to begging.

    We seriously need your help to maintain this website.

    Thank you,

    Fred

  8. I’ve moved the links for most recent posts to the top so we can get to the topic we’re looking for faster. Just click on the link to take you to your topic. If you want to go to a person’s comment, click on the thread topic link beside their name and the site will take you to the comment. I find this site usually misses it a bit, scroll down a few inches and I usually find it. 🙂

    I think its time to rename the blog as there thankfully is no case of the State of Florida vs. GMZ.

    What should we call ourselves? Truth Seekers? Justice Warriors? Keeping it Honest? Facts not Emotion?

    • Call it what you will, but I have the word NETTLES on my favorites bar, and I’m keeping it that way.There’s history here. I do hope to see the blog take a more “What can we do?” mind set. We need to identify the problem, and then come up with ideas to correct that problem. Once we do that. I am convinced we will stop blaming the bit players, and start focusing on the enablers. I’ll start by saying I think media advertisers, should be held accountable for the product they produce. If GZ wins his suit against NBC, and I presume others, those who financed those ventures should share in the liability. It’s going to be a tough fight.

    • It took a lawsuit for him to publicly state he is a race baiter filled with hate and supports violence!

      The only way I see logical heads prevailing in this “No Justice No Peace” movement is to let these representatives set the record straight over the legitimacy of their claims. 😛

      • I don’t doubt there is a good reason for the delay. At the end of the day, I hope they are successful in getting these corrupt lawyers out of the justice system.

        Future defendant’s rights to a fair trial demand it.

    • It’s hard to say. My impression of the scuffle with the father in law was that he locked them out of the front door and then ran to the back and tried to lock it. Mr. Dean got there before George had it locked and there was shoving and Mr. Dean’s glasses got knocked off in the scuffle. I might remember what I read incorrectly, but it didn’t sound like an assault to me. George seemed to be trying to keep them away from him. Shellie didn’t seem afraid of George in the surveillance video. She seemed more angry than frightened. Frightened people try to get away. She pulled out her cell phone and started dialing right in front of him.

          • My vibe is we’ve heard the last of her. She’s been quiet for almost a month now…and last we heard she was about to show us something big involving a knife and a traffic stop.

            • I hope you’re right. I think Angela Corey showed us that there’s only so much you can do when truth is not on your side. You can stir up the emotions of those with a lynch mob mentality but its hard to hard to convict with no evidence and it’s not always easy to even keep the interest of the general public with no evidence.

              • Sundance still has some FOIA activity in the pipeline. If there is pertinent information to be found in yet to be released documents, there is no reason why Sundance wouldn’t put it out in a thread to all Treepers.

                • No doubt and I hope he does. I was talking about SD coming here and making his comments, last I know was when he came here and made very ugly remarks, in ref to Nettles posts stating she would be away for a few days as she was going thru test checking to see if her cancer was still in remission. Thankfully it is. But his very unchristian like comment with words like karma…were well, uncalled for. And I hope he truly realized how much of an ass he made of himself. I do not know if he apologized to her or not, he sure owed her one…

            • She has spent time and energy with her book project. She is not about to put it aside. Odds are that everything is still on her schedule.

              Many times, these types of books come out to coincide with publicity arising from further developments in the case. Of course, the publicity should fit the narrative of the book, i.e., anti-GZ. Don’t expect the book to be pushed coincident with applications of sanctions against BDLR and company.

              Think of it like surfing. There is a development in the case, it gets publicity in the 24 hour cable news cycle. The author catches the wave to pitch the book. There are plenty of TV venues, both cable and non-cable, hungry for salacious “continuation stories” to fill their airtime.

            • Until today when I went to her blog, I saw that I had a comment in moderation. Today when I tried to log in through wordpress i got an “invalid username” error. I take this to mean that I have been blocked from her blog. Just another race-baiting whore who refuses to listen to any point of view that differs from her own, though calling he z whore may be insulting to prostitutes.

  9. I just posted this on facebook. I think I’ll share it here too.

    Families demanding Justice have got to stop lying to the public. Because they lost a family member DOES NOT give them a pass on lying to the public to incite anger and get action in criminal cases. Tracy Martin’s lies eroded the sympathy I had for him in the loss of his son. How dare he demand justice while lying his butt off. Kendrick Johnson’s father has been found to told several whoppers. He can’t be demanding justice (truth) while lying. To incite anger he, in one lie, he told the public school officials didn’t even bother to show up at his son’s funeral. There is tape of a school official speaking at the funeral. Renisha’s Mom said the family didn’t hear about this until Nov. 4th while on the facebook pages of family, they are mourning her loss on the day she died. Her body was not dumped as they told some reporters and she was not shot in the back of the head while trying to leave the man’s porch. If families want justice, they had best start with telling the public the truth, the whole truth. If you have to lie to make your point, perhaps your point is invalid in the first place. Otherwise no need to lie.

    • Losing someone so young and sudden usually gains the support a family requires to get through by those closest to them. All these families speak of God, family, and community. But in an instant they invite the world into their personal tragedy. When there are so many other parents and families that deal with much, much worse it seems like these parents are attempting to martyr their child. Their children seem to be a possession. An extention of a group, a color, not a person. That is sad.
      These families certainly stand apart from other parents whom had endured the same unfortunate event.
      They offer no reprise to any cause when they lie. Certainly lying cannot be for justice, or in the memory of their loved ones. Lying usually is for personal gain.

      • Danny ~ The families are more than willing to become Media Whores, just as we saw the Anthony’s do before Sybrina/Tracy/Crump/BGI, & you are right, their agendas promote lies & more importantly, $$$$ for appearances to promote the lies.

        I really appreciated Cruz setting the record straight about SYG at the Congressional hearings, Sybrina didn’t like being kindly called out as being untruthful when Cruz stated “TM’s case had nothing to do with SYG.” I haven’t read anything lately about the heartbreaking case of the Australian College Student murdered by 3 thugs while jogging, I can’t even remember his name, Anderson maybe? You make a good point, so many people have suffered unimaginable tragedy/heartbreak from no fault of their own & the death of their innocent loved ones that are leading productive lives when they are hardly covered by Media.

    • Nettles ~ excellent comment. What I find beyond irksome is that the MEDIA is more than willing participants & responsible in allowing families promoting agendas to say anything even when they are LIES, as in the cases you stated, this includes National Media Outlets such as NBC/ABC/CBS which imo, should be held to a higher standard. The MEDIA is willing to provide a microphone to families for interviews especially on low budget cable shows like HLN, CNN, Sharpton’s pulpit on MSNBC without ever being challenged as to the facts disproving the families lies. It’s tabloid journalism imo, the reality is, many people aren’t interested in the facts as we all saw in GZ’s case, Natty Jack remains inept continuing to brainwash her followers on twitter.

    • The thing is these families feel justified. and in many cases the government agrees with them. In their thinking: so what if they make a few bucks by exploiting a tragedy, they are the victims of the system after all.

      Case in point according to Jack Cashill latest;

      “This week Broward County Public Schools in Florida reached an agreement with the NAACP and local law enforcement to end what is sometimes called the “school-to-prison” pipeline”

      “These entities will end the pipeline not by addressing the social dysfunction that leads to crime but by refusing to put students in the pipeline until they commit their FIFTH criminal misdemeanor.”

      Now as official policy, black young males will not be referred to law enforcement until the 5th instance of criminality and this is being applauded by some groups as progress. They can’t, won’t or attempt to fix the issues that allows these kids to behave in this manner and now telling them that it is OK as long as you don’t do more that 5 times you won’t be arrested or face consequences.

      http://www.cashill.com/zimmerman/affirmative_action_goes.htm

      This breeds a culture where people grow up thinking that they are special, needing special rules, laws don’t apply to them so that when something does happen it is not their fault. An accident is no longer an accident but a conspiracy, self-defense from a vicious beat down is now murder and if a kid goes on a rampage they are just letting up some steam.

      • Bori,
        I do not even support adult 3 strike laws. I will say though I am in a tough position with the school to prison pipeline topic. I do support diversion programs but they will only work if there is intervention BEFORE an act occurs. Once kids begin to be introduced into the criminal system the risk of offending again is higher. So how they believe the more the strikes it self are diversonary is a setup to fail.

        I advocate for kids and parental rights. So I am biased with this topic. Kids are thrown in jail because of very stupid zero tolerence policies. Then again if a kid is a violent offender they should be jailed in a juvy system. Florida has big issues with their justice system in a whole. So this is a complex topic.

        I will say this too. One must be careful when arguing against diversionary programs and claims of stat juking. Crime rates are used in a variety of debates even by those on the right from gun rights, to unfunding certain programs and advocating for smaller government.

        As the special breed issue, it goes beyond skin color. The past two to three generations have been exploited from the internet boom, two parent working family, one parent house holds, and a bigger liberal movement. That issue is complex as well.

        • Danny- I do agree this is a difficult subject. I think zero tolerance rules are stupid but at the same time correlation does not equal causation. That is the problem with the so called “prison pipeline”, saying that if someone was given a break they would not re-offend has not worked and is not working with AA community. It’s been tried all over the country and the results have been clear, the only thing that has happened is that the stats have been juked, school grades have gone down, and the differences between different schools systems have widened.

          IMO before be start blaming schools for having or maintaining a pipeline to prison, we should address the issue of why kids are behaving this way to begin with. The schools are not forcing them to behave in a manner that breaks the law, but telling them that it is OK to do so at school sends the exact wrong message.

          I have been involved in school with my sons and fought an initiative to installed zero tolerance and have supported measures to help kids in trouble, but every case is different and should be treated that way. Blanket policies do not take into account all the circumstances to the detriment of kids but are preferred because of other issues. Finally, if nothing is wrong, it is excusable and there are no real consequences, how can we expect people much less kids to abide by rules.

          • the pipeline to prison is from the streets not the schools. Zero tolerance for felony crimes on campus must be honored.
            the slogan, schools to prison is a false concepts and people need to challenge the activists who promote this nonsense.

            the Streets to Prison pipeline is an accurate slogan.

            • Totally agree, it is a false concepts that detracts from the real problems. Do they really mean to say that kids that commit crimes at school are angels outside of school? Or are they just pretending to do something while not doing anything at all?

              As zero tolerance, I did not mean all crimes, the problem if that zero tolerance removes that from the equation and a water gun is treated the same as a real gun.

    • That’s a very good post, Nettles. What these families are really demanding is revenge, not justice.

      My sister was murdered by a mass shooter. I understand the desire for justice. I even understand the desire for revenge. I’m sure I would be very angry if her killer was not serving life w/o parole. Our situation was cut and dry. The man tried to commit suicide by cop by walking into a church and opening fire. He thought he could just keep shooting people until cops arrived and killed him. He isn’t very bright. He didn’t have gun that shot very many rounds or was quick to reload. When he tried to reload, the people in the church didn’t just sit and wait but overpowered him. We had over 200 witnesses plus it was filmed, so the only issues were whether he’d plead insanity and whether prosecution would ask for the death penalty. Not one single victim or family member of a victim wanted the death penalty. It was unanimous. He really didn’t have to take the plea bargain. I’m not sure why he did. I thought that was a sign that he’d accepted guilt and was remorseful, but he gave the families and victims that survived the finger during sentencing.

      I can imagine how I would feel if my sister’s killer wasn’t in prison for the rest of his life. Unfortunately, that happens to a lot of people. Sometimes the police just can’t find the killer. Sometimes, they just find a suspect that they can charge, but there’s not enough evidence to prove that suspect did it. That has to be frustrating for the family members. They often believe emotionally that the suspect murdered their loved one. Our founding fathers set up our justice system on the principle that it is better to let 100 guilty go free than to convict one innocent. Most of us agree with that until someone we love is murdered. Then we would rather see 100 innocent convicted rather than risk letting the killer of someone we love go free.

      When we lose someone we love, it’s revenge we want. Justice is what people not connected to the case want to prevent future crime. If we lose someone we love, we want anyone responsible to pay. Self defense has no place in that that scenario. How can anyone deal with the idea that a person they loved was killed because someone was defending themselves. If they know who killed their family meA mber, they feel sure that it wasn’t self defense because they strongly believe their loved one would not murder. They can justify lying for the case because they’re defending what they strongly believe is truth.

      A problem with the Zimmerman case is that the parents were able to get a huge amount of sympathy from ordinary citizens before very much truth about the case was published. Many people sympathize with with Trayvon’s parents and they want them to get revenge. Some people identify with Trayvon’s parents because of race and they want revenge, not just for the parents, but for their race.

      The Zimmerman case has never been about justice, but about revenge.

  10. When the families start lying to ensure an arrest and conviction, it is not justice they’re after but revenge. Grieving families seeking revenge is nothing new. It’s what started the Hatfield and McCoy feud. It’s just that our system of justice was not set up as a means for people to get revenge.

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