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Latest Zimmerman Discussion

Happy Thanksgiving to all my American friends!Thanksgiving-2013-Wallpapers-9

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299 thoughts on “Latest Zimmerman Discussion

  1. Thank You Nettles!
    I am grateful and thankful that you, despite our differences, making this place as welcoming as possible for EVERYONE.
    You are for sure a very special Canadian lady in all your “Liberal” Glory, and I am happy to have met you!

    I appreciate all the banter here. We have much more in common then most and I am thankful for everyone who have broaden my world view, thoughts, and you all have given me experiences I otherwise may not have experienced! That is not the eggnog speaking either!

    Happy 2013 Thanksgiving All!

      • Now, I gotta learn the girly heart thinging on top of the tweets? …. And I just learned apple crisp and liver stuffing today against my will! You girls seriously want way too much. I am outnumbered now. No hooson and bori….go easy on danny. I am not Sundance!

        • ♥ Hold down ALT and 3 on key pad 🙂 Apple Crisp ummmmm. Liver anything… running to bathroom holding my hand to mouth.

          Happy Thanksgiving Danny! Heartfelt thoughts of you today, praying for comfort thru these most special Holidays without your Mother. Hugs!

  2. I agree with Danny. Thanks so much for creating and maintaining this site. I just realized that I’m actually depressed about what’s has happened to George. I am surrounded by family that I love and I am so grateful to have them. I’m just not enjoying them because I’m worried about GZ. They don’t want to talk about him and that’s natural. Most people don’t like unpleasant topics for Thanksgiving. I am so grateful to have a place where I can talk about what I am so concerned about.

    I am very worried that he will be murdered or worse, abused in prison. Every day that the jury deliberated, I was in constant prayer for the Holy Spirit to be active in the jury room. Now, I pray for a miracle that will allow him to be free of death threats and be able to live a meaningful life.

    I so wish his wife wasn’t helping his enemies.

    • Don’t become that emotionally attached to GZ that you can’t enjoy your family. That is a time to step back a little. All IMO.

    • Look. I think of Gorge Zimmerman as Kayne West in White Hispanic form anymore. He totally next is gonna hook up with a Kardashian look alike and hang out with obber cool Disck. Unless you are Jewish I do not want to offend. Or Muslim because Obama is Muslim who looks like Trayvon. But as an uber conservative racist freak who clings to religion and guns take this lightly. GZ is heading to a spaceship called Zeno, with Tom Cruise. GZ went totally Darth Vader and we know unless he meets Yoda the land of Texas will execute him in like two seconds because he totally is not applied in catching Chucocabra only cheestos like Britney Spears, false pregnacies, and civil rights leaders.

      Really. GZ is not the Alterboy you wanted.

        • I am white and kind of almost Hispanic, & Catholic. We know these things.
          It is almost like TM looking like Obama.
          Yes. Projection. But I am totally lowering myself for the betterment of society. If that makes sense. Not sure if he represents him or you do though.

      • He’s just an ordinary man who had to defend his life. He was railroaded by the media and black grievance industry and became the most hated man in the country. When he was acquitted, he felt a need to get away from his wife for awhile and she turned against him. So far, the only things we know he’s done wrong since the acquittal is leaving his wife to get away for a few weeks, having an affair and driving too fast. His wife called 911 when he broke her iPad and his girlfriend called 911 when he broke her glass table. We have not seen any evidence of anything else. Yet, the media is making him look like a madman.

        I read in the last thread that GZ is responsible for his own decisions and he’s been making bad ones. As far as I can see the only 2 bad decisions we know he’s made are leaving Shellie to go to Texas and having an affair after she left him. I hoped he would be able to survive the death threats and eventually be able to be employed. I am not seeing much hope for that now. His wife and the other woman seem to have finished him off. He now is having to hide out with the people who threatened to kill him knowing that he is without guns and without a body guard. I fear that we will soon turn on our televisions to hear that he’s been murdered. Those threatening to do that seem to be getting no discouragement. It’s as though that is socially sanctioned.

        • George Zimmerman is safe. The boogey monsters moved on as they usually do. Short attention span they have Sharon. GZ will stuff himself with Turkey in a few and is sound asleep right now.

        • Sharon ~ there have been innocent people that have had it far worse than GZ. Are you familiar w/the Ryan Ferguson case? It’s been featured on Dateline 2 or 3 times over the DECADE Ryan Ferguson sat in jail for a crime he didn’t commit, a high profile case. Ryan was charged w/murder & convicted of murdering a Sports Editor of a Newspaper, but there was no evidence, no DNA, nothing but a friend of his had told LE he had “a dream that he & Ryan murdered this gentleman.”

          It was discovered the Prosecutors WITH HELD exculpatory evidence & Ryan won his freedom in the past few weeks, but he lost his entire 20’s sitting in jail at the hands of corrupt Prosecutors for a decade, he never had the opportunity to attend college, date, develop a career but labeled a murderer & sitting in jail.. GZ is a free innocent man BUT Ryan Ferguson was TOO an innocent man & he lost his freedom.

          Guess what! The Prosecutors announced they “aren’t going to re-try the case.” OUTRAGEOUS. Those corrupt POS’s need to get ready for the anticipated Civil Suit which should reap millions for Ryan Ferguson. Sitting in jail he has written almost his entire story, the book I read will be released in the Spring. GZ has a lot to be grateful for imo.

          No one ever murdered OJ r KC & she never possessed guns, she doesn’t have body guards as she is unemployable & has no money, imo, it’s not likely GZ will be murdered.

          • The point is, I am thankful GZ walks a free man this Thanksgiving, there are so many cases of innocent men r women that are suffering in the penal systems, they have loving families hoping & praying for their release. Ryan Ferguson had a 40 yr. sentence, not many get out of wrongful convictions, his family, like Amanda Knox’s lost everything fighting for his release.

            I worried & prayed so hard for GZ during his trial, I was so fearful he might be convicted, I would play out the nightmare scenarios fearing as to what could happen because anything can happen w/any jury. There are some positives for GZ, the biggest is that he is free.

          • GZ isn’t the first innocent man to be persecuted. There’s been plenty of innocent people convicted of crimes they didn’t commit and have had their lives ruined. The difference here is that GZ was found innocent in a court of law but tried and convicted by the media and black grievance industry.

            His life is ruined. He has to hide to avoid being murdered and it isn’t easy for him to hide. His truck has been shown on television with the license plate visible. I was fearful of GZ being convicted and abused in prison. It could still happen. He’s not exactly free right now. He is out on bail and likely to be railroaded again.

            OJ was found not guilty of murdering his wife, but they threw the book at him for another crime. He as overcharged and probably given the maximum for that charge. The same could happen with GZ. He might not survive a prison sentence. There are many in prison who want to murder him. His guns have been taken from him and he can’t afford a body guard. He has trouble keeping the place here he lives from being publicized. It’s been publicized that he is unarmed. He might not even make it to his next trial.

            He still needs prayers.

          • No one ever murdered OJ r KC & she never possessed guns, she doesn’t have body guards as she is unemployable & has no money, imo, it’s not likely GZ will be murdered.

            Neither OJ nor KC had the black grievance industry after them. It is very likely GZ will be murdered because his threats are many and they come from people who are likely to do it. A couple of teenage twins were murdered just for having a bumper sticker that said, “Free the Z.”

        • Sharon ~ I too was really disappointed GZ did not attend SZ’s Court Appearance when she plead on the perjury charge. Not many thought she could beat the charge & she salvaged the opportunity to have a career. It doesn’t matter what GZ thought about SZ’s plea, it was the right thing to do to support his wife imo as she had supported him but it sounds as if GZ had already moved on at that time.

      • For most people here, Thanksgiving is a time of thanks, we don’t think much about the Indians and the settlers (the origin of the holiday). I think it’s actually the neatest holiday. So in Canada – what is the orignal story about your Thanksgiving?

        • Hey wait…. It is a family tradition of ours to get “Indian apples” , and my kids are now old enough to understand the first true harvest. See, back in the day the Pilgrams had something similar to socialism, the Obama dream. It did not work.
          So you reaped what you sowed.
          Only cause certain so and sos said “Why do I need to till & toil, I will still eat.” That is when capitalism was born………
          If you tilled and toiled you could share and eat.
          If you sat on your ass the Indians handed you “pomegrante” and said “watch me eat duck and goose bicthes while you eat the Indians wisdom.”

          Lol.

          My story anyways!

  3. I gobbled up food on Canada’s Thanksgiving, so Nettles, we all shall share! Thank you for you kindness and your ability to keep the bickering down in a respectful way. I am thankful for each one of you, may you have a truly blessed Day and weekend.

  4. Trayvon Martin attorney Jasmine Rand says criminals should not be arrested because it creates problems for the criminals and violates their constitutional rights: Jasmine Rand, a civil rights attorney with Parks & Crump in Fort Lauderdale, said arbitrarily arresting people for trespassing and other minor crimes should not be used as a pretext to solve other crimes.

    “Not only do such policies violate citizens’ constitutional rights it creates long-lasting and damaging effects in the individual’s life, leaving him or her with a criminal record that will affect employability,’’ Rand said.

    “When a person is not employable, it encourages the individual to participate in illicit or criminal activity to earn money and provide for their families; therefore, not curing a criminal element but creating it.’

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/26/v-fullstory/3781719/miami-gardens-mayor-calls-new.html#storylink=cpy

    • I would advise anyone who reads your comment to suspend judgement until reading the entire article to which you linked and from which those quotes are taken, the better to put them in context.

        • The city violent crime rate for Miami Gardens in 2010 was higher than the national violent crime rate average by 138.67% and the city property crime rate in Miami Gardens was higher than the national property crime rate average by 66.98%.

          In 2010 the city violent crime rate in Miami Gardens was higher than the violent crime rate in Florida by 77.64% and the city property crime rate in Miami Gardens was higher than the property crime rate in Florida by 38.05%.
          2010 Crime (Actual Data)* Incidents
          Aggravated Assault 663
          Arson 12
          Burglary 1,321
          Forcible Rape 25
          Larceny and Theft 3,515
          Motor Vehicle Theft 574
          Murder and Manslaughter 22
          Robbery 351
          Crime Rate (Total Incidents) 7,337
          Property Crime 5,410
          Violent Crime 1,061
          2013 Crime (Projected Data)* Incidents
          Aggravated Assault 109
          Arson 0
          Burglary 1,823
          Forcible Rape 0
          Larceny and Theft 3,407
          Motor Vehicle Theft 417
          Murder and Manslaughter 32
          Robbery 327
          Crime Rate (Total Incidents) 7,561
          Property Crime 5,634
          Violent Crime 465

          https://www.cityrating.com/crime-statistics/florida/miami-gardens.html#.Upgq2d6wX_E

        • I’m not telling anyone what their judgement should be, just that they should read the article first, and then evaluate that particular set of comments in the context of the rest of the article in which they appear and to which they supposedly are in response.

  5. Marissa Alexander is out on bond. The conditions are as follows: 673 1 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    BOND SET AT $150,003.00
    674 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    2.DEFENDANT SHALL REMAIN UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE PRETRIAL SERVICES PROGRAM (PSP) OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER THE COMMUNITY TRANSITIONS CENTER OF THE JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF’S OFFICE (CTC), AT ALL TIMES WHO SHALL MONITOR THE DEFENDANT’S COMPLIANCE
    675 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    3. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ELECTRONIC MONITORING THROUGH THE CTC AT ALL TIMES
    676 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    4. DEFENDANT SHALL REMAIN ON HOME DETENTION UNTIL COMPLETION OF HER CASE AND WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE HER RESIDENCE EXCEPT FOR COURT APPEARANCES, MEDICAL EMERGENCIES, AND TO SATISFY ANY REQUIREMENTS OF PSP OR THE CTC
    677 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    5. DEFENDANT SHALL REPORT FOR ALL REQUIRES COURT APPEARANCES AND ALL REQUIRED APPOINTMENTS WITH THE PSP OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER
    678 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    6. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT CHANGE HER RESIDENCE WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE AND APPROVAL BY THE PSP OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER;
    679 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    7. DEFENDANT SHALL HAVE NO CONTACT WITH, NOR COMMUNICATE BY ANY MEANS WITH , RICO GRAY,SR. PERNELL GRAY, AND RICO GRAY, JR.
    680 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    8. DEFENDANT SHALL ABIDE BY ALL COURT ORDERS IN THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS INVOLVING RICO GRAY ,SR, INCLUDING ALL ORDERS THAT PERTAIN TO CHILD CUSTODY. EXCHANGE OF CHILD CUSTODY FOR VISITATION SHALL BE FACILITATED BY A THIRD PARTY;
    681 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    9. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT POSSESS ANY FIREARMS, NOR SHALL THERE BE ANY FIREARMS IN HER RESIDENCE AT ANY TIME DURING HER PRETRIAL RELEASE
    682 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    10. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT CONSUME ANY ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OR DRUG NOT PRESCRIBED BY A PHYSICIAN
    683 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    11. DEFENDANT MUST ABIDE BY ALL RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE PSP AND THE CTC, INCLUDING RANDOM DRUG TESTING
    684 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    12. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ALL REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CTC AND THE PSP,
    685 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    13. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO WARRANTLESS SEARCHES OF HER RESIDENCE BY CTC OFFICERS, OR ANY JSO OFFICER CONDUCTING SUCH A SEARCH AT THE DIRECTION OF CTC PERSONNEL, TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH HER PRETRIAL RELEASE CONDITIONS
    686 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    SEE CONDITIONS OF ORDER
    687 2 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    BOND SET AT $25,003.00
    688 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    2.DEFENDANT SHALL REMAIN UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE PRETRIAL SERVICES PROGRAM (PSP) OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER THE COMMUNITY TRANSITIONS CENTER OF THE JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF’S OFFICE (CTC), AT ALL TIMES WHO SHALL MONITOR THE DEFENDANT’S COMPLIANCE
    689 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    3. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ELECTRONIC MONITORING THROUGH THE CTC AT ALL TIMES
    690 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    4. DEFENDANT SHALL REMAIN ON HOME DETENTION UNTIL COMPLETION OF HER CASE AND WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE HER RESIDENCE EXCEPT FOR COURT APPEARANCES, MEDICAL EMERGENCIES, AND TO SATISFY ANY REQUIREMENTS OF PSP OR THE CTC
    691 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    5. DEFENDANT SHALL REPORT FOR ALL REQUIRES COURT APPEARANCES AND ALL REQUIRED APPOINTMENTS WITH THE PSP OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER
    692 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    6. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT CHANGE HER RESIDENCE WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE AND APPROVAL BY THE PSP OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER;
    693 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    7. DEFENDANT SHALL HAVE NO CONTACT WITH, NOR COMMUNICATE BY ANY MEANS WITH , RICO GRAY,SR. PERNELL GRAY, AND RICO GRAY, JR.
    694 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    8. DEFENDANT SHALL ABIDE BY ALL COURT ORDERS IN THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS INVOLVING RICO GRAY ,SR, INCLUDING ALL ORDERS THAT PERTAIN TO CHILD CUSTODY. EXCHANGE OF CHILD CUSTODY FOR VISITATION SHALL BE FACILITATED BY A THIRD PARTY;
    695 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    9. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT POSSESS ANY FIREARMS, NOR SHALL THERE BE ANY FIREARMS IN HER RESIDENCE AT ANY TIME DURING HER PRETRIAL RELEASE
    696 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    10. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT CONSUME ANY ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OR DRUG NOT PRESCRIBED BY A PHYSICIAN
    697 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    11. DEFENDANT MUST ABIDE BY ALL RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE PSP AND THE CTC, INCLUDING RANDOM DRUG TESTING
    698 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    12. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ALL REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CTC AND THE PSP,
    699 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    13. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO WARRANTLESS SEARCHES OF HER RESIDENCE BY CTC OFFICERS, OR ANY JSO OFFICER CONDUCTING SUCH A SEARCH AT THE DIRECTION OF CTC PERSONNEL, TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH HER PRETRIAL RELEASE CONDITIONS
    700 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    SEE CONDITIONS OF ORDER
    701 3 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    BOND SET AT $25,003.00
    702 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    2.DEFENDANT SHALL REMAIN UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE PRETRIAL SERVICES PROGRAM (PSP) OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER THE COMMUNITY TRANSITIONS CENTER OF THE JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF’S OFFICE (CTC), AT ALL TIMES WHO SHALL MONITOR THE DEFENDANT’S COMPLIANCE
    703 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    3. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ELECTRONIC MONITORING THROUGH THE CTC AT ALL TIMES
    704 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    4. DEFENDANT SHALL REMAIN ON HOME DETENTION UNTIL COMPLETION OF HER CASE AND WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE HER RESIDENCE EXCEPT FOR COURT APPEARANCES, MEDICAL EMERGENCIES, AND TO SATISFY ANY REQUIREMENTS OF PSP OR THE CTC
    705 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    5. DEFENDANT SHALL REPORT FOR ALL REQUIRES COURT APPEARANCES AND ALL REQUIRED APPOINTMENTS WITH THE PSP OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER
    706 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    6. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT CHANGE HER RESIDENCE WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE AND APPROVAL BY THE PSP OR ITS DESIGNATED SERVICE PROVIDER;
    707 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    7. DEFENDANT SHALL HAVE NO CONTACT WITH, NOR COMMUNICATE BY ANY MEANS WITH , RICO GRAY,SR. PERNELL GRAY, AND RICO GRAY, JR.
    708 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    8. DEFENDANT SHALL ABIDE BY ALL COURT ORDERS IN THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS INVOLVING RICO GRAY ,SR, INCLUDING ALL ORDERS THAT PERTAIN TO CHILD CUSTODY. EXCHANGE OF CHILD CUSTODY FOR VISITATION SHALL BE FACILITATED BY A THIRD PARTY;
    709 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    9. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT POSSESS ANY FIREARMS, NOR SHALL THERE BE ANY FIREARMS IN HER RESIDENCE AT ANY TIME DURING HER PRETRIAL RELEASE
    710 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    10. DEFENDANT SHALL NOT CONSUME ANY ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OR DRUG NOT PRESCRIBED BY A PHYSICIAN
    711 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    11. DEFENDANT MUST ABIDE BY ALL RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE PSP AND THE CTC, INCLUDING RANDOM DRUG TESTING
    712 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    12. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ALL REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CTC AND THE PSP,
    713 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    13. DEFENDANT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO WARRANTLESS SEARCHES OF HER RESIDENCE BY CTC OFFICERS, OR ANY JSO OFFICER CONDUCTING SUCH A SEARCH AT THE DIRECTION OF CTC PERSONNEL, TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH HER PRETRIAL RELEASE CONDITIONS
    714 — 11/27/2013
    11/27/2013
    SEE CONDITIONS OF ORDER

      • She will be convicted a second time and rightfully so.One thing I do agree with the prosecutor about is there has been zero change to the case. There are no no facts, no new evidence, no new forensics, no new witnesses, etc etc etc etc….it was simply an error in the jury instruction that got her a new trial.

        In fact, the evidence as recounted by the trial court and uncontested by the defense shows that the bullet “nearly [narrowly] missed [her husband’s] head” while he stood with his hands in the air, presenting no imminent threat whatever to the lethally armed Alexander.

        The fired round passed through the kitchen wall immediately behind the husband and step-children (not, it should be noted, the kitchen ceiling), penetrated into the living room, and eventually lodged in the living room ceiling.

        The husband and step-children fled and promptly called police–conduct consistent with a consciousness of innocence. Alexander, having fired the shot past her husband’s head, never called the police–conduct consistent with a consciousness of guilt.

        http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/09/the-myth-of-marissa-alexanders-warning-shot/

        • That may be a side-effect, but I suspect what Holder is doing is stalling the people howling for Zimmerman’s blood with that whole “the investigation is still on-going and therefore we can’t comment” routine in the hopes that either

          a. it eventually gets forgotten or

          b. at least it won’t be until after he’s long gone that some low level Justice Department functionary comes out late one Friday afternoon and admits that they looked high and low for evidence that Zimmerman is racist or that racism had any bearing on the events of that night and that they came away empty handed.

    • That answered a question I had. I thought O’Mara agreed to do it without pay. I didn’t realize he changed his mind when he learned about the defense fund.

      Sundance might not be wrong when he referred to him as O’Money. O’Mara did benefit from trying a high profile case. After the trial, George really needed all the money he could get for security, therapy, and fighting the public opinion case.

      • I’m confused by charging the defense fund rent for the place next door. If your lawyer charges a rate of $400/hr. I’m sure he/she isn’t suppose to add in his cost of rent while he’s your lawyer. It seems to be double-dipping.

        • I agree that it seems to be double dipping. It must mean that the civil suit against NBC is about to get started and MOM is taking as much as he can onto the bill so that he’ll be sure to get as much of it as he can. Shellie also wants half of it. I hope there’s enough left for George to have some security after MOM and Shellie take what they want.

          • Sharon ~ the way Civil Suits work that are on a contingency, which GZ’s is because he has no ability to pay by the hour, is that the client is charged a flat fee of usually 40% of the Judgement PLUS all the cost related. MOM will likely receive 10% & the Beasley firm 30%. MOM, imo, was needed to file information in Fla. since he was located there, if there is ever a settlement, the Beasley firm will recieve most of the money.

            In my sister’s wrongful death, the Attorney’s charged 40% PLUS cost, they received more money than my family which is customary in Civil Cases on contingency. The good news about a contingency, is that if the case is lost or doesn’t go forward, the client isn’t charged anything.

            Otherwise Known ADTG ~ I haven’t seen anything on the NBC case, why do you think Rene S. thinks it may not go forward? This is upsetting. Thanks.

        • Nettles ~ the rate per hour is for MOM/West’s labor, it didn’t include the additional needed space for ALL the additional staff GZ’s case required, many of whom volunteered from the Law center. The reason for MOM to have charged for rental is that MOM’s office couldn’t accommodate the added staff, computers dedicated solely to GZ’s case. Attorney’s charge an hourly rate OR they can set a flat fee for a case, in addition to the hourly rate an attorney charges, they charge the client for phone time used in the case, EVERY single copy made, etc. If MOM didn’t require another attorney to help in this case, the cost would have been possibly 1/2 the amount, but the complexity & depth involved in this case required 2 attorneys, MOM couldn’t possibly have given GZ the defense he got & met all the deadlines required by Judge N doing this case solely on his own. It’d customary, in high profile cases that more attorney’s are required, KC had 6 attorney’s, Adam Kauffman had 2.

          It’s no different than if MOM/West had rented office space which may not have been close to MOM’s office which would have been difficult, they, or any other attorney would have still charged GZ for the rental offices no matter where they were located to accommodate the added staff for GZ’s case. Office rental is not labor by the attorney’s. GZ DID’NT pay for the property, GZ was charged “rental for the office” whether it had been located next door or 5 miles from there. MOM nor West needed the space for their practices had they not represented GZ. imo, the house that came available next door to MOM’s office was lucky for MOM, the property didn’t cost GZ a dime, it was close to the law library, all staff, paralegals, copy machines etc. GZ was responsible for the rental of space no matter where it was.

          This is NOT illegal NOR is it double dipping.

          • Looking back, would George have been better off to not ask for donations and have the state pay for his defense and have Mr. O’Mara stick to his deal of pro bono?

            Defendants in the future, may think twice in trying to raise funds to defend themselves but then again, you hand the State the power to say what gets done and paid for in your defense.

            • Nettles ~ Oh no, imo, GZ’s would have suffered if he had claimed “indigent status.” The trial strategy risk being exposed to the Prosecutors from those the defense interviewed or ask for an opinion. Although a defense doesn’t have to share information they don’t use in trial, IF the State pays for “indigent status” of a defendant, it makes the news, everything the Defense ask to be paid for is exposed to the public due to the Sunshine Law whether the Defense uses them r not, they have to be paid regardless. An itemized list of request is provided through the Clerks office.

              ONLY 1 attorney is allowed for an “indigent defendant,” @ a reduced rate, reduced rates are paid for “indigent status,” experts & some experts chose not to participate, there is a downside. ALL the cost are not covered as well for the defense, the taxpayers want explanations because they are paying the bill. imo, one attorney could not have handled this case, it was too complicated, too much vetting of information, limited funds are provided to defendants that are indigent, they are limited to the amount of hours they will pay for investigators. Had GZ claimed “indigent status,” GZ would not have had the defense MOM/West provided, he may not have walked free.

              KC’s attorney’s took a beat down & bitched incessantly w/Judge Perry reminding Baez, the cost of the attorney’s were NOT covered, only 1 attorney could have been paid but since Baez took $ 89,000.00 of KC’s money, he was considered a “private attorney” & would not qualify. LK Baden & Lyons both part of the dream team w/ endless expertise because they didn’t live in Fla. & there was a problem w/having their air fare paid, they too signed on as “pro bono,” but when the cost are more than the attorney is willing to donate, they were free to leave the case.

              I don’t think MOM would have remotely considered doing this case if GZ had claimed “indigent status” before he contacted MOM. New public defenders starting salaries are $ 40,000.00 per yr. in Fla. w/limited experience. The reality is in our country, a first class defense put on without a stone left unturned like GZ had cost a fortune.

  6. lorac1 ~ this case really broke my heart, my mom died of Alzheimer’s 2 yrs. ago, I was her care taker until she died. My mom had gotten out once from the house & I called the police immediately, I was running through our neighborhood yelling for her when I found her looking through the windows of a white house w/a big porch. From then on, I kept the alarm system on 24/7, later when thinking about it, I realized I had once owned a home that was white w/a big porch. Though it was daylight when our event happened, I was so grateful that I found my mom & she was safe, she had the mind of a child and couldn’t even say her name or where she lived, she was just scared, so was I, I too immediately bought a medical ID, like dog tags, identifying her as suffering from Alz.’s & our phone #/address. Sadly, this would not have helped this poor gentleman.

    It’s unbelievable this poor man wandered for at night for 4 hours in a light jacket w/wind chill temps. in the 20’s before being shot/killed. imo, this man will likely be charged, WHY did the homeowner have to shoot 4 times?

    • It’s hard to say if he’ll be charged. It’s really a sad situation. An old man walked into my house once. He was confused and couldn’t find his way home and thought he was going home. I could tell he was confused, so I wasn’t frightened. A short time later, his kids came searching frantically.

      • Sharon ~ I agree it’s hard to say, but it may be a case of SYG! I ran across this article, I guess this will ratchet up the SYG debate again.

        Sheriff says Georgia ‘stand-your-ground’ law may apply to fatal shooting of man suffering Alzheimer’s, report says!

        Walker County Sheriff Steve Wilson has said he had no doubts that Hendrix felt threatened during the encounter. No charges have been filed and they are cooperating, but The Free Press reported that Wilson said a circuit district attorney may bring charges after reviewing the evidence. Wilson said the Georgia “stand-your-ground” law may apply to this case, the report said.

        “In my personal opinion, I believe that he should have stayed inside the house,” he said. “Did he violate any laws by exiting the house? No.”

        http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/29/sheriff-says-georgia-stand-your-ground-law-may-apply-to-fatal-shooting-man/

    • arttart – that’s why I wish people would use extra care even if the SYG law protects them. The alzhemers guy had been knocking on the door, then moved into the yard and could only be seen in silhouette. Apparently he turned and started walking back towards the house and wasn’t responding to what the homeowner was saying to him. He had alzheimers, he may have also had aphasia and not be able to process spoken word well. Anyway, my understanding is that he was quite a distance from the house when shot. I just don’t see why they couldn’t lock him out of house and await police who had been called 10 minutes earlier. I just think there are times that you can keep yourself safe and await the police. Should the situaton become more emergent, then they still have the option of the gun. But just because you have SYG rights, doesn’t mean you always have to use them… IMO.

      • lorac ~ I agree, this gentleman may get off on SYG, but I have a problem w/a man that is safely in his home that is locked & has a gun for protection, he then goes outside by choice, an altercation ensues, & he shoots 4 X’s killing the man in the yard. There was absolutely no reason for this gentleman to go outside imo, his girlfriend was on the phone w/a 911 operator,

        From my understanding, this gentleman was not trying to physically break into the home, if he did try to break in eventually, the homeowner could have shot him at that time from inside, I just question going outside, then shooting the man because he didn’t respond to the commands of the homeowner, the homeowner could have retreated to the safety of his home, he was the one w/a gun, imo.

        Several months ago a football player from Fla. was in a serious wreck I think in Ga., knocked on a woman’s door to call for help, instead, she called 911 & said he was breaking in. When LE arrived, 10 shots were fired killing the college student, he too didn’t t respond to LE’s command, the dash cam caught it on tape, the officer is charged in that death I think for “involuntary manslaughter.” I don’t know the outcome since it happened this year.

  7. On the NBC suit, this is the most current article I could find in which James Beasley spoke directly w/the Media Outlet reporting the story:
    ____________

    George Zimmerman moves to restart libel lawsuit against NBC over edited 911 tape

    Days after George Zimmerman’s July 13 acquittal in the killing of Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman’s lawyer in civil court, James Beasley, has confirmed that he will move to resume his client’s libel suit against NBC.

    “We are going to get the libel case restarted,” Beasley wrote in a July 15 email to iMediaEthics.

    Beasley is currently requesting a lift on the stay on the defamation case, requested by NBC in February while awaiting the outcome of Zimmerman’s criminal case.

    http://www.imediaethics.org/News/4056/George_zimmerman_moves_to_restart_libel_lawsuit_against_nbc_over_edited_911_tape.php

      • 03/22/2013 NOCH NOTICE OF CANCELLATION OF HEARING SCHEDULED FOR 5/1/13 AT 9:30AM
        03/21/2013 STOR STIPULATION WITH ORDER STAYING PROCEEDINGS/NELSON 3/19/13
        03/08/2013 OPHV ORDER ON PRO HAC VICE FOR DION G RASSIAS TO APPEAR PRO HAC VICE -GRANTED- NELSON 3/7/13
        03/08/2013 OPHV ORDER ON PRO HAC VICE FOR MAXWELL S KENNERLY TO APPEAR PRO HAC VICE -GRANTED- NELSON 3/7/13
        03/08/2013 OPHV ORDER ON PRO HAC VICE FOR JAMES E BEASLEY JR TO APPEAR PRO HAC VICE -GRANTED- NELSON 3/7/13
        02/28/2013 OPHV ORDER ON PRO HAC VICE FOR GAYLE C SPROUL TO APPEAR PRO HAC VICE – NELSON 2/28/13
        02/28/2013 OPHV ORDER ON PRO HAC VICE FOR LEE LEVINE TO APPEAR PRO HAC VICE – NELSON 2/28/13
        02/28/2013 NHCY NOTICE OF HEARING ON 5/1/13 @ 9:30AM
        02/20/2013 M MOTION (VERIFIED) FOR ADMISSION TO APPEAR PRO HAC VICE BY GAYLE C SPROUL-MOVANT
        02/20/2013 NFIL NOTICE OF FILING AFFIDAVIT OF AUTHENTICITY (ATTACHED) BY DEFTS
        02/20/2013 M MOTION TO STAY PROCEEDINGS BY DEFTS
        02/20/2013 M MOTION (VERIFIED) FOR ADMISSION TO APPEAR PRO HAC VICE BY LEE LEVINE-MOVANT
        12/06/2012 CCST CIVIL COVER SHEET
        12/06/2012 CMPL COMPLAINT FILED
        12/06/2012 ADRE ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER REASSIGNMENT OF JUDGE 12-16-S

  8. DONATIONS: Taaffe is seeking Donations for GZ on Facebook. Since Taafee promises every penny will go to GZ’s defense attorney, GZ may in fact have to pay off his debt to Jayne, a deal many of us speculated may be the case. Taafe’s request:
    ______________

    ATTENTION — NEED YOUR HELP: Taaffe has got your back. Now George needs me to have his back, as Samantha Scheibe and her mother, Hope Mason have conspired to dupe him. Samantha was never pregnant, and you’re going to learn a lot more about this plot shortly.

    I’ll be interviewing on Occupy HLN sometime Wednesday afternoon. I’ll let you know — or see their Facebook page and they’ll update you — http://fb.me/occupyhln.org … you’ll know more then, and I’ll put an article on my website sometime Wednesday as well.

    I need YOUR help. Please share this and spread the word! George needs help to fight these bogus charges that the media is pouncing on. If you cannot make a small donation, please share this and perhaps somebody else can. You have MY word that every penny donated will go to George’s legal counsel to help fight these charges.

    THANK YOU!

    http://www.therealfranktaaffe.com/donate-george-zimmerman-defense-fund/

    • Art Tart – Thank you for sharing this opportunity with us. I’m not sure how I feel about this. I have no doubt Frank is sincere in his promise to give the money to GZ.

      One of our contributors found this blog by a person sympathetic to the Martin side of things, which gave some background information on Frank and Mark O.
      http://grondamorin.com/2013/11/26/george-zimmerman-conspiring-with-friends-frank-taaffe-and-mark-osterman/

      I make no claims on any of its validity but wanted readers here to know and perhaps research for themselves before sending money to anyone. I received this link before I or the contributor were aware of Frank’s effort to help GZ out again.

      Without a formal request from GZ or his legal representative, I remain wary in sending money to anyone.

      I leave it to each reader to decide for themselves.

      • Nettles ~ I know GZ could use donations, I know that Taaffe has been a good friend to GZ, something he sorely needs but fund raising is something that usually is more successful if it has oversight imo. I don’t think Taaffe would do anything illegally, but there is a lot of accountability from those that donate as there should be. Too, Taaffe is not a non profit so donations won’t be tax deductible if that is important to donors.

        The only reason I became aware of the Facebook page is that I like to read the comments at the OS, the link you posted today had the same ole GZ commenters hating GZ w/their usual bull chit, but a GZ supporter shared Taaffe’s link. If Taaffe continues to do the MEDIA blitz which is a positive for GZ, unless Nancy Grace cuts his mike off, Taaffe will tell viewers where they can make donations, if not, it’s going t be hard to get the message out it would seem.

            • Exactly like this freak Corey B King! A traybot , a wanna be famous kind of soul. Kinda funny in its on way, he trying to stir the pot but got thrown out with the dishwater at Leatherheads lol

              Corey B. King says:
              November 28, 2013 at 9:28 am
              GZ being jailed for sending Samantha’s daughter texts of their intimate moments….

              bettykath says:
              November 28, 2013 at 9:33 am
              do you have a link?

              crazy1946 says:
              November 28, 2013 at 10:12 am
              Perhaps someone is wishing for an early X-Mas present? Or then again maybe the party from last night is still hanging in there? Nothing on any of the news services about this…

              Trained Observer says:
              November 28, 2013 at 10:58 am
              Sez who? Apparently only you.

              Corey B. King says:
              November 28, 2013 at 9:34 am
              It was a story on Clickorlando. I will try to find it.

              Frederick Leatherman says:
              November 28, 2013 at 9:45 am
              I just checked clickorlando and did not see a reference to what you described.
              When did you see it?

              COREY B KING THE WANNA BE ACTOR LMBO UNEMPLOYED LOSER NEVER RESPONDED BACK ROFLMBO

      • I don’t know about the rest of you, but the treehouse has lost credibility with me in criticizing O’Mara. While I may have some criticisms myself, I want to know how much money the treehouse took in and didn’t pass onto GZ in their defense of him.

        Until I know, they are sharks in the same tank.

        • Sundance makes an interesting assertion, if true.

          He suggests (without clearly stating) that the GZ legal fund signed a 99 year lease with Timber Run LLC.

          This is highly unlikely, although I could be wrong on this. I wonder what Sundance means by this and if it is not true, why would he write something like this?

          • Another thing puzzles me. Sundance seems to know that MOM has a ” multi-year, multi-million, CNN contract”

            If,in fact, this is true, then one would think that CNN will very soon be out of business. Paying multi-millions for 5 minutes/per month commentary from an itinerant lawyer does not seem very prudent?, Think of what they must be paying Wolf Blitzer! Such financing is a one-way street to bankruptcy.

            • hooson1st ~ I think your assessment is correct. I read awhile back, Anderson Cooper, the face of CNN is paid 10 million per year, it was an article about the highest paid news shows, of course they had the salaries of Matt Lauer, George Steph., Al Roker, Robin Roberts who is the co-host of the morning ABC show only making 4 million, she is in negotiations for more monies since ABC is now # 1 in the mornings. Of course those are National Media Shows, HLN, CNN are small cable news outlets.

              At the time AC was paid a high salary as he is said to be “the face of CNN,” he had a talk show on 5 X’s per week in addition to AC360, so he had 2 shows @ 60 minutes each. AC too represents the network in appearances & mingles w/showbiz people garnering publicity for the network, his picture is in Social Media a lot whether doing fund raising for aids or calling Alec Baldwin “homophobic.” Piers Morgans salary is 2 million per year w/a show 5 X’s per week for 60 minutes. Wolf Blitzer makes 3 million per yr. for his show “The Situation Room.” Blitzer may be one of the highest paid, years of experience & highly respected by many, he is paid accordingly imo.

              MOM isn’t likely making a million per yr. as he simply doesn’t work that much for the network imo, that information is FALSE that he makes so much, MOM would need his own show w/high ratings to score several million per year. Nancy Grace @ HLN, CNN’s sister company only makes 5 million per year & she has one of the highest rated shows n HLN, on 5 X’s pr. week & has been at the network forever. It has been unusual that Fla. has had 3 high profile cases back to back, Adam Kaufman’s, KC’s, & GZ’s. In the next year or so, they may have no high profile cases & CNN move on to hire other analyst to replace NeJame & MOM, their contract is yr. to yr.

              • “It has been unusual that Fla. has had 3 high profile cases back to back, Adam Kaufman’s, KC’s, & GZ’s. In the next year or so, they may have no high profile cases & CNN move on to hire other analyst to replace NeJame & MOM, their contract is yr. to yr.”

                They’ll take something and make it ‘high profile’ and money making. Look at all the BS being spread about the Kendrick Johnson case. It’s a MYSTERY!

                • And, of course, the GZ case was about a racist vigilante that stalked and murdered a small, innocent, skittle loving child. The child was just innocently walking back from the store wearing his cute hoodie. He was also an honor student and majored in cheerfulness. Blah, blah.

                  At times it really does make me want to throw up.

              • hooson ~ if you ever want to know what salary a media person is, if they are a big enough “star,” such as A Cooper, Nancy Grace, Robin Roberts, Piers Morgan, etc., if you Goggle for example: “Piers Morgan Net Worth.” The site, “celebrity net worth” will give the net worth PLUS what they are paid annually.

                Smaller participants at the networks such as Sonny Hosstin, Vinnie P., etc., aren’t listed because they were Attorney’s before they were analyst & I think the site can’t track the salaries before they came to the network to total their net worth. Plus, they aren’t celebrites except in their own minds LOL!

            • Hooson,
              I have not followed what stories Sundance has been writing as of late.
              But, it is quite ironic if he has written about the lease on the other building it was the same time as that blackbutterfly chick who is accusing MOM of similiar wrong doings on using funds for leasing space aside from the practice.
              Here is her assessment:

              http://blackbutterfly7.wordpress.com/2013/11/29/1861/

              Interesting though in this post black butterfly7 mentions the DOJ investigation and that being the cause for delaying of GZs civil suit. I also considered that but I have not done any research on the logistics of how delaying it would benefit either party to the ABC suit. Holding off on a suit until an investigation is over I suppose could benefit either party considering the outcome. But I am unsure why both parties would agree to that. Considering they have no clue of the time frame.

              This blackbutterfly also states that the sanctions hearings wont happen and that filing was a farse to get money into the defense fund.

              Moral of the story is Sundance prolly ripped another story from someone else, because he hates MOM that much. Look SD could have cared less about GZ so his hatered for MOM HAS to be personal.

                • True. I am not even paying much attention. All sources are beating a dead horse. What do they expect? Those who donated to ask for a refund? Lol.

                • According to the gzlegal site on the fund break down way back. When PRIOR to trial…

                  “Law Firm Support and Infrastructure — $40,647.64

                  Before taking the Zimmerman Case, the O’Mara Law Group was a small private practice that consisted of Mr. O’Mara, an associate attorney, and a support staff of three. The defense team includes co-counsel Don West, 6 interns, and additional support staff. Many of these people work for free or at a deeply discounted rate. Nonetheless, additional staff requires additional office space, more computers, new phones, expanded IT infrastructure and support, and more. Some of these expenses represent a one-time investment, some will be monthly recurring expenses until the case is complete.”

                  As far as the trust fund
                  “George has selected a new fund manager and a new trust was established to fund his defense called the George Zimmerman Defense Fund Trust. All donations, including PayPal donations will go to this new trust, and the sum of $13,890.56 was transferred from the old trust to the new account.”

                  On this website http://www.ibtimes.com/george-zimmermans-defense-cost-500000-not-including-lawyers-fees-infographic-1347753 looks like at least up until April 2013 …before trial the infastructure cost was a lil over $52,000. But those bitching should remember the COST of the trial even without a $400 an hr. lawyers which would have been 1 million alone to begin with if the state paid for his defense.

                  Since we have no clue of the breakdown of the remaining money and what went into the fund from that time it is hard to determine what infastructure had cost. I feel it was reasonable being GZ was not paying a dime to his defense team and his own living expenses, minus security (that was calculated on its own) was over $60,000 close to $70,000 in just 3~4 months alone!

              • Danny ~ Up thread I included a link in which James Beasley made a statement that stated “they were in the process of moving forward, NBC/Beasley Firm had both agreed to hold off on the case until the verdict,” it appeared they legally signed documents agreeing. There is no win, win, for NBC to settle, their agenda is to prevent the inevitable, Civil Suits take years upon years & usually settle as my families, the week before the jury was to be picked.

                There is no reason the case can’t move forward imo unless MOM/Beasley don’t think it’s still a winnable & case imo, that’s not what they think. For the case to bog down because of the DOJ, Beasley/MOM would have to agree to wait on the DOJ w/NBC like they did on the verdict, but most Americans know hell could free over before Holder could do anything ethical, his track record would have gotten him fired in the private sector, imo. MOM/West know there is NO reason to trust the DOJ NOR wait on any outcome, they wouldn’t agree imo.

                Interest grows on monies awarded in a Judgement in Civil Suits from the date the suit was filed, this is to prevent the one being sued, NBC, from delaying or dragging out a case to delay the inevitable, either settlement or trial. It too encourages some to settle quickly, interest isn’t cheap on a pile of $$! I don’t think there is any incentive for NBC to move quickly, they retain attorney’s in house, they have bucket loads of monies whether they win or lose, it would help GZ/MOM/West out, but that is not the agenda of NBC.

          • This assertion makes zero sense. Why would they sign a 99 year lease with an entity who’s maximum lifespan would be about two years at most (the conclusion of the criminal case)?

            I also do not recall Omara EVER stating he was working pro bono. It is my belief that the pro bono talking point was fabricated by the Traybots in an effort to vilify the defense fund ( i.e. why are these racists sending money when Omara is working for free).

        • I don’t know what to think. I don’t like that the Treehouse called for people to stop donating and wanted the funds to dry up. MOM and West did work hard, did an excellent job, and got an acquittal. I heard MOM say they knew George couldn’t pay and they aren’t going to force him to now. He said if good fortune comes to George, he can pay.

  9. One of the many things I Ponder…..

    I would like to post this on Facebook, but my sister in law is there, so I’ll ponder it here. Maybe someone here might have some insight.

    I know we all have different tastes in various things. Some people like chocolate and others prefer vanilla or strawberry. Some people like sweet snacks and others prefer salty snacks. I just never that anyone preferred things like breads, cookies, and candy dry. My sister in law brought a huge box of homemade goodies for everyone. She brought bags of cookies, candies, and cranberry bread. She was the first to leave. My husband cut his loaf of cranberry bread and gave everyone a piece. No one could eat it because it was so dry that it was about like eating baked flour. Then we started sampling the cookies and candies. They were the same. She made some peanut butter cups that had all the moisture out of the peanut butter. I don’t know how you can make peanut butter that dry unless you just put a lot of flour in it. Same with the cookies.

    We all sat and pondered. She must have worked very hard baking all those things. We could all understand how she might have cooked the breads before sampling them, but she had to sample the cookies and candies. The only thing we could figure out is that she must just really like dry desserts and breads. I’ve never heard of that. They were all so dry that nobody could eat any of it. We all appreciated the labor of love and were grateful that she wasn’t there when we all tried to eat it.

    Has anyone ever known someone who liked breads, cookies, and candy so dry it was like eating baked flour? She has to like it that way to have done that with all her baked goods. Is this unusual or is it common and I’ve just never noticed.

    One relative suggested that she might have just tried to make it healthier by substituting a low fat shortening and adding things without adjusting shortening and liquid. It was like getting a big spoonful of flower.

    • I’ve noticed that some people like dry and some moist – people in my office go to Starbucks and get scones and muffins, and all I can think is “dry” and “yuk”! Sounds like you’re talking about SUPER dry, though. My guess is you’re probably right – she made some substitution and figured it made no difference and didn’t check….

      • You are right on both counts. I consider Starbuck’s scones dry and difficult to eat but a lot of people like them. I am talking super dry…ultra super dry. You’re probably right that she made substitutions. She likely likes dry breads and desserts to begin with and used dry recipes and then substituted something for butter. Come to think of it, there are recipes like shortbread that are a little dry, but heavy in butter, which makes it melt in your mouth, anyway.

        • I have tasted some cookies where applesauce was used instead of shortening and it was diff in taste and texture at least to me. Oh and some peoples brownies are like that. I also think that the differences in types of flour could have a diff in taste and texture. Just my opinion, lol I am no pastry chef, but like being a taste tester. ROFL oh my one time my friend got busy and forgot to put the sugar in some choc dessert, COCOA kind of dessert. My jaws pucker now just the memory 😉

    • Humm. Funny. I deal with that EVERY family dinner! Mostly Holidays though. Not so much with desserts. It is the main course and even drinks. They drink diet, & never season ANYTHING. I hate diet drinks and I season everything!
      Desserts are light as well. I come from an Italian family. Food has flavor. Here at my house we like flavor.
      Their potatoes have like NO SALT.The whole meal is like No sugar, no salt, no butter. I feel like a newborn trying food for the first time.
      That is why we avoid those invites as much as possible. I am sure they feel the same coming to my house where if they are diet and light seasoning people they hate our dinners as well. But I accomodate them as much as I can. Some meals require seasoning as you cook while others it matter none and season after.
      No such luck when we get invited though. So we fill up beforehand so we can eat “light” in more ways then one at their house.
      This year I made red pepper and scallion green beans…. they called them “spicy greenbeans.” There was no hot pepper what so ever. It was red bell pepper & green onion chopped up in green beans.
      Ahhhh, the Holidays…. which bring many taste buds together. Could be a pleasure or NOT.
      Lol.

      • OH those are the bestest green beans! My aunt makes them yummy! And I have to laugh, my dtr and her husband do not season anything! I was raised to and to let the veggies simmer, not open a can and warm in the mircro. I remb many times getting in trouble lol. My Daddy never says a word but whew, I gotta have some seasoning! Last year I was going to make cookies with my gsons. I said do you have any butter/marg? THEY Didn’t lol. Now to be honest, my Mom only uses real butter and my dtr after her studies in the USAF and specialized training, came home to tell us that the diff in margarine and plastic is only 1 molecule, so that could have some consideration, but darn, I need some flavor 🙂

    • I think that Sundance’s investigation and reporting on the GZ case is what made his site popular. I think he did a lot to help the defense as well as things to hurt it. He seemed to stop covering GZ much right after the problems between George and Shellie. Some of the Treepers seemed to side with $hellie. I don’t know if that’s why SD stopped talking about the ongoing problems of Zimmerman or if he just wanted to move on and become known as a popular conservative site and not just a one issue site.

      There’s just too many other good conservative sites already. The fact that the administration is cliquish and rude isn’t going to make people want to go there and participate in many discussions. He may be covering GZ more now that there will be the domestic violence trial and the divorce settlement. Then there may be the law suite against NBC. His popularity may peak again. I don’t think it will ever be a popular conservative site unless the people running it gain a bit of humility toward their participants.

      • I think the contributors to the site made the difference. As is the success of any site, its the contributors who make or break it.

        As to all the adminstration work needed to host a blog, I call bullshit. Anyone asking for donations to keep their blog going is ripping the readers off. Most especially from bloggers who don’t work already.

        While the treehouse gave us the gathering point, they shut down a lot of good voices. Sundance worked against the defense fund and in doing so looked to sabotage GZ’s acquittal. I remained perplexed that Robert Zimmerman publicly thanked the treehouse and no one else following the acquittal.

        Facebook is full of supporters who worked with the defense to bring about the success and I haven’t heard of any who got acknowledged by the family. I also find it telling the defense stayed silent on showing appreciation for the effort to help them. It is what it is. Perhaps net gain, the defense would have been happier to shut the internet off. I heard Mr. O’Mara say that at a gathering Crump was at.

        • Robert Zimmerman Sr. sends notes of thanks to those who contribute to his fund and who send notes of support. He doesn’t respond each time, but he does thank people. Robert Jr. tweeted more than once how much he appreciates all his supporters. Right after the trial, he said he was going to write notes of thanks to all who supported him but he was busy making public appearances then trying to change the tide of public opinion about his brother. He has never said anything to me when I defend him on Twitter. I think they are a little afraid of their supporters. Robert Jr. mentioned that when they were out in public sometimes they would be recognized by people who support them and those people would stop them and talk loudly about how much they support them. He said while they appreciate those people, it terrified them because they were afraid someone would hear and hurt them. I often get the impression that Robert Jr. is afraid to trust supporters on Twitter. I think the entire family is. They might trust someone who has bad motives as George did with Samantha.

          • It is difficult to know who to trust, but there’s also the risk of publicly acknowledging someone and then being seen as ‘associated’ with that person. That can easily backfire in the public arena if, for example, the person turns out to be an actual racist. There’s also the risk of the ‘enemy’ listening and gaining information that can be spun and used against GZ and family. The entire defense team seems to have been very careful about speaking publicly via social media.

            • To be a George Zimmerman supporter online was to take a massive amount of abuse. I’m encouraged by the number of people willing to take the abuse and stand up for what is right.

              The circumstances of that night leaves no doubt, Trayvon’s reaction to being suspected caused him to put GZ in fear of great bodily injury. While an actual injury isn’t required to have that fear, a broken nose certainly gives credence to the thought he (George) was in physical danger.

              As with anything, some look to take advantage during a crisis.

              I recall being very very sad when I read Mr. Zimmerman’s thank you to the treehouse. I think what Sundance did to Mr. O’Mara and that defense fund was disgraceful.

              • You have a point about attacking the defense attorney and the defense attorney. SD helped George in many ways but attacking O’Mara and the defense fund sabotaged the defense and put George at risk. Jack Cashill met personally with Robert Sr. and Cashill praised SD. That might have influenced Robert to publicly thank SD.

                I followed the trial and donated to the defense fund all along, but did not even find the Treehouse until after I read Cashill’s book.

      • I was initially drawn to the CTH because of the vigorous multi-faceted discussion of important underlying issues in the GZ-TM tragedy.

        Part of the success of drawing in the commenters was Sundance’s talent in framing issues in a sharp contrast that focused follow-on comment in a useful direction as to exposing the false narratives offered by Crump and Co, and the multiple deficiencies in a prosecution case propelled politics. In particular, Sundance’s efforts in using FOIA to peel back the background of TM’s brushes within the school system were a unique contribution to understanding the case.

        There was a strong diversity of opinion, and no-holds-barred disagreements with other opinions being voiced, even with the site’s clearly strong conservative orientation.

        Yet, over time, alternate explanations for various facets of the discussion were subjected to unrelenting attacks on motivation and intelligence, and not on the validity of any particular observation or argument.

        What remains seems to be an orthodoxy most clearly articulated to a theme that whatever O’Mara does is bad.

        Despite all this, I am hopeful that Sundance persists in his FOIA efforts, there is much that can be learned.

        • Hooson,
          I agree with the FOIA bit. But do not hold your breath.
          Unless they hold information or can spin it to SDs narrative it is tough to say he would even
          reveal what they hold. Or he could and say the State is witholding.
          The last few times he was here I called him out on his BS concerning the last FOIA revelations, claiming TM was baker acted and it was proof. I did a write up months before about Juking Stats. I called him out as well on his claims that MOM was being investigated by the bar. Of course everyone knows I called him out on MOM being a part of the HOA deal.
          He also was claiming (well all the CTH admins. were) that MOM was no longer GZs atty. after the trial was over. I called him out on his paypal deal with GZ that never exsisted.
          And many many times we all pretty much discussed why SD was wrong in all the filings he claimed MOM should have filed but did not.
          That website lost its credibility, not only for how they treated GZ supporters and MOM, but for being Infowars 2.0!

          But IF he ever gets what he thinks he needs in those FOIAs I am sure he will spin it into another “I told you so.” It is common knowledge Floridas SOA is corrupt. The Sate of Florida is corrupt, and GZ was railroaded. How SD and crew expect to change all these revelations through thier ultra obber intellegence and forethought has yet to be seen.

  10. I just read an article suggesting that Scheibe was planted by Holder. That’s a frightening thought. I think she is just a gold digger who seized an opportunity, but George should be careful who he associates with.

  11. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/11/30/lol-freedom-at-a-cost-article-citing-george-zimmerman-financials/#comments

    My discussion with SD. I tried to hint that the drying up of defense donations may have contributed to the current $250 million bill GZ received.

    It appears the attorneys did agree not to charge but they based part of their decision on funds coming in. Someone tried to dry those funds up. That was costly. Also the article I posted indicated the attorneys based their decision to charge on the fact the family continued to try to raise funds. They had a need to try to raise funds. They were left unemployed and dealing with death threats.

    • It dried the funds up based on what may have been needed for experts. The funds also were dried up once bail was revoked. Which is another reason why it made NO SENSE to accuse MOM of lying about knowing about the full amount of the paypal funds which were hidden from him. Had he known…sure higher bail but no waste the first go around. And the fact GZ ran dry so quick when we were being led to believe they were motel jumping the WHOLE time when in fact he lived pretty comfortably the whole time, buying IPads, phones, and vehicles, and paying off debts is pretty f~ed up. So there again…. SD was wrong about “If GZ needs toilet paper he needs to go through MOM.” The whole time SD claimed and I suppose yet he is claiming he used defense funds to pay himself when obviously they never got paid.

      I have to find the link. But there are a few where SD wanted the funds to dry up believing MOM would leave the case or GZ would drop him for mismanaging. I think Shellie will be the key to find out how that money yet to be calculated was spent. Which will be during the divorce proceedings. She gave her debts when she filed. And we know they both paid stuff off before MOM knew about the paypal. GZ directed what should be paid and where and how it all should be done. Wonder if GZ knew exactly why that would benefit him in the future?
      Perhaps Shellie is right. George thinks about George.

      • I doubt if anyone donated funds to pay off GZ’s bills.

        I would have less sympathy for him if the BGI and media wasn’t railroading him and if there were no death threats and he could get a job. Unfortunately, it is what it is.

          • I think an article said she was to receive that amount monthly. That might have been what she got when they separated, but since those funds dried up, it would be impossible for her to continue to get that.

            The funds were not for them to pay bills. If GZ used it for that, it as foolish as well as unethical. Sometimes people have difficulty grasping that their world has changed and they’re living by different rules. He was focused on getting bills paid and advancing his career. He went to a doctor the day after he was assaulted & killed TM in self defense only because he needed an excuse from work. After that night, an excuse from work was no longer important. Paying bills was no longer important. Keeping the good will of his attorneys was very important. His world changed on him.

        • We knew that part of the fund was for living expenses. That was made very clear.

          Paying off the bills was actually a very smart move. They had no other means of paying them and those late charges add up really fast. I’d rather the money went to them than to their creditors in the form of late charges. Or having creditors searching for them in order to collect, possibly revealing their location, and give them even more legal issues. That said, having that much money available to them may very well have made them less frugal than they should have been.

          • As a donor, I never had a problem with them paying bills off. When you are living in hiding, the last thing you want is for a creditor to have to know your address.

            In drafting the pay pal discussion thread (which hopefully will be posted next weekend), I’ve learned GZ and Shellie were very frugal.

            As long as they stayed safe and paid for what was need for an acquittal, I’m good for how the money was spent. When I heard “not guilty” I knew my donations were well spent.

            • Bill collectors are good but not that good! I think they both are pretty good at hiding. Besides worrying about bills in jail after being charged with 2nd degree murder is a lil…. what is the word. Frugal? If $70,000 in housing in less then 5 months is frugal, then damn they should have at least something to show for it! MOM spent less then that on a defense in 6 months!

              • I’d be curious to know if bill collectors would have been allowed access to GZ’s location in order to collect. I’m guessing they would be especially if they filed a suit to collect.

                • We have seen how anyone who finds out where GZ is makes it public. That is something a bill collector could have held over him. They could have threatened to tell the media and maybe would have done that even if they got paid.

                  • I would think that would be blackmail, and illegal. I imagine a good security contract in this type of situation would have stipulated that they could not reveal his location. Creditors could contact MOM, if needed, they wouldn’t need GZ’s address. Creditors don’t go to people’s houses, anyway, they harass them on the phone.

                • Bill collectors could file suit. But just like evry suit involving GZ and SZnothing could be publicly revealed.

                  It was a criminal defense fund not a pay off my debt before the shooting fund.

                  • Were you serious when you suggested that if bill collectors went after GZ that it would remain a private matter? I’d imagine there would be dozens of people in the loop, one way or another, in such an effort. Add to that Florida’s sunshine laws.

                    Regardless, you seem to have decided that GZ has been behaving badly ever since the recent accusations made against him. Did it touch a nerve?

                    Have you not been paying attention to what the media (and justice crowd) has been doing? According to them GZ is a racist, druggie (albeit prescription), sociopath, vigilante, child murderer, pedophile, grifter, attention seeker, woman beater. It’s quite a resume and it seems to me you’re buying what they’re selling. Wonder what other shit they can come up with that they can get to stick with you.

                    • I care none about what they say. I am speaking of principles here.
                      Prosecutors allege that Mr. Zimmerman had nearly $135,000 at the time of Shellies testimony during the bond hearing.

                      “Nearly $200,000 has been raised for Mr. Zimmerman’s defense. Of that amount, Zimmerman’s attorneys say that $150,000 is now in a trust fund for the defense. Nearly $30,000 has been used “to make the complicated transition from private life in Sanford, Florida, to a life in hiding as a defendant in a high-profile court case” – a taped jail conversation suggests (later confirmed through bank records) that the money was used to pay bills including American Express and Sam’s Club credit cards. The remaining $20,000 will be used to provide living expenses for the Zimmermans up to and during the trial”

                      Great except they lied about the money so the living expense became greater because bond was revoked!

                      Do you have an Ipad coreshift?

                    • Be more specific. I’m well aware there were transfers of money that MOM wasn’t aware of. I’m also aware that trust is in short supply when one’s head is being served on a platter. Link me to the conversation GZ had with MOM about the paypal account. The one where GZ lied.

                    • Why not tell your atty about $200,00? Your own wife says “Why not pay 100? ” Meaning the full amount of the bond?

                      MOM was the one to convince them to use a bondman if you remember. So why would MOM not advise his client and especially the court on 200gs? 10% of 130 is much less then 10% of 1 mil. Especially after you just lost 10% of 150 and your clients bond was revoked and now he has to moved back to florida.

                    • No. The prosecution always asked for 1 mil. bond. He could have covered it in the first bond hearing . But being the funds were not revealed reasonable bond was set at $150,000 the 1st time.

                    • Ask yourself this: Why would GZ hide money? Do seriously think he was planning on fleeing the country as the prosecutors tried to suggest? Traybots suggest he was planning on fleeing to Mexico or Peru. Do you believe that’s true?

                    • He throughly discusses bond with his wife in this call. Therefore for him to even be aware what MOM would seek for bond he would have had that conversation with MOM already. Also, MOM must have had to discuss collateral with family because GZs parents and his grandmothers home was put up. That is what pisses me off about paying the bills over these people losing money they worked for just to get him out when he lied!

                      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBNU06Ehrl0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DIBNU06Ehrl0

          • Coreshift and Nettles, I had not thought of that aspect of it. As a donor, I have no problem with them doing whatever was necessary for them to be safe. That’s what I donated money for….staying safe and defending themselves against trumped up charges.

            Frank’s donation site, btw, has become over-run by Traybots.

  12. Have to continue down here about paypal…..

    Nettles,
    The whole paypal came back to me recently since SD was brought up again. Last time we discussed him we discussed that email. There never was a consensus on who could have sent it although there was suspects.
    Since researching the paypal and past stuffs going on here I came across Ostermans old stuff.
    I wonder if?

  13. Corrine Brown Still calling Zimmerman a white man and a completely innocent child

    Meanwhile, Congresswoman Corrine Brown released the following statement, following Saturday’s verdict:

    “I am heartbroken and angered by the verdict in this decision. My prayers go out to the Martin family in their grief, as they are faced to live with a justice system that has failed them, a system that did not exact even minimal punishment on the man who killed their 17 year old son.

    “This is a blatant example of our justice system being entirely broken. Along with the NAACP and other civil rights groups, I pledge to fight for the removal of Stand Your Ground laws here in Florida and across the nation, and do everything within my power as a Member of Congress to put an end to racial profiling. Last year, an innocent young man was killed in Sanford, Florida while returning from a 7-11 grocery store, and the perpetrator was not even convicted of a crime…clearly, there is something very wrong with a system of justice that legally sanctions such a heinous act.

    “Two cases involving Stand Your Ground laws in my congressional district highlight the hypocrisy and disparities in this law’s interpretation. In this case, in Sanford, a white man shot a black teenager, Trayvon Martin, and the justice system ruled it was an act of self-defense under Stand Your Ground. In Jacksonville, Marissa Alexander, a young black mother fired a warning shot because she feared another possible attack by her abusive husband, yet she was not allowed a stand your ground defense during her trial. If ever there were a case where Stand Your Ground should apply, it would have been that of Marissa Alexander.” http://mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/7/14/congresswoman_corrin.html

      • She reminds me of Californias Frankenstien (Feinstien) only she is privledged enough to own a gun. Only THEY can protect themselves should a crime happen. Only THEIR lives are important.
        My message to them is Stop violent crime and then people would not have to kill anyone in self defense. Must be nice to speak on a soapbox with constant hired protection who carry guns for you while thousands a day suffer from violent crimes whos right to defend themself is being dimisnished. When these elitist walk and live amoungst us unarmed they will change their minds.
        But they are career politicians or supporter of …. so that will never happen.

    • 5th call down in this list GZ tells SZ to keep what she talks about with Scott between her and Scott.
      I believe from the second or third call he advises Shellie to get his laptop and hot spot after she tells him MOM has it.
      He tells her to get it and to keep it pulled in. Call 5 she tells him Mark has it and plugged it in. He tells her she needs to get the lap top that only she can do this. Susie tells Shellie she can take her.
      GZ then tells Shellie to keep quiet what she and Scott talk about.

      I am refreshing my memory on the calls. Been awhile….

  14. ANOTHER Article on Settlement in Security Suit Against MOM/GZ/SZ.
    ________________

    O’Mara had been scheduled to be deposed today.

    After the shooting, Zimmerman went into hiding and hired a series of bodyguards. After he signed O’Mara as his defense attorney, they hired CMR, headed by former Orange County Deputy Chris Rumbaugh, a former undercover drug agent and SWAT team member.

    He filed suit a year ago, accusing Zimmerman and O’Mara of agreeing to an elaborate security plan then failing to pay in full.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-bodyguards-settle-20131202,0,2430300.story

    Seems they hired the best. This could have been extremely embarrassing for MOM if he had done the deposition, then GZ/SZ’s would follow. Just about anything can be asked in Civil Suits, not just about the Security Suit, & the depositions could have been released to the public. Civil Suits settle when they can’t be won in court,

        • Well, we can’t contradict the narrative, you know. Same as the knockout game, it has been going on for a few years, and is only now just barely getting mentioned in the news – although half of the mentions are to say it’s a myth, or that it’s not a black thing, it’s a teenager thing (in which they’re all black lol).

          I would think the first rule to fixing a problem is to acknowledge its existence. I guess too many people are more invested in appearances than in fixing problems. That’s a terrible shame…

    • OKDG –

      clarification here. The author writes for U.S. News and World Report, not for NBC.

      Also, even though her juxtaposition of the GZ case with the Alexander remains inappropriate, she does qualify her description of the GZ case, as not that GZ was confronting TM, but that “no one can know what transpired” and that GZ “got out of his car to follow or confront” TM.

      The author does not mention the dispatch, or GZ disobeying the dispatch.

        • Since the author doesn’t mention the dispatcher, we have no way of knowing what, if anything, she inferred, but from what you have said I am inferring that you have confused infer and imply.

        • Respectfully OKDG

          I did read what you wrote, and it was not a bother.
          I made no comment as to your use of the word “inferring”
          I provided the complete context of what the author wrote.
          I wrote this reply while seated.

          🙂

  15. I’m wondering how the $2.5 million bill will play out. It will be a shame if there is a settlement for not much more than that and the attorneys take their fee right off the top and $hellie gets half of it. That will leave George with nothing for security. If he has anything at all the Martins will probably try to get it.

    • The Martins won’t get anything. MOM has always been clear, that if they sue GZ, he will file for immunity and will get it.

      It seems like the treehouse is whispering in your ear and getting you all worked up about MOM’s intentions – you seem all ready to believe he doesn’t care one whit about GZ’s situation, just wants to get all his money and doesn’t care if GZ has nothing left. Where is this coming from? You seem to have suddenly changed. MOM was a good guy, and now he’s an unfeeling, greedy jerk? MOM could have taken money for himself at any point, and he didn’t. GZ used the money for housing, security, food, and experts for the trial – not MOM and West. GZ even used it to pay off his credit card bills. He apparently gave MOM and West a minimal payment after the trial – that’s it. It’s just weird – it’s like you’re bringing up all the old discussions we had on treehouse forever ago. I don’t understand where it’s coming from.

      • I agree Lorac. And I personally don’t understand all these people all worked up on what GZ $ was used for. I mean, if you donated it to his fund, you donated your x amount. Its like people feel just because they donated freely to a fund, that gives them the right to a personal part of the story. IMHO those people are no better than the Samantha S and her mother. Unless someone donated huge amounts and had stipulations what they wanted their $ used for, I don’t see where they have a dog in the hunt. I honestly have wondered sometimes if some who bitch so much even donated as much as $5. Some people just want to bitch, no matter what.

        It is VERY Clear, especially after SD posted about shouldn’t have anything go do with someone if the are a DEM, even if family, well very clear NO MATTER WHAT MARK O’MARA DID, WASNT GOING TO BE OK OR GOOD ENOUGH, PERIOD. I mean hell he and West got Geo acquitted ~! SD just wanted to be a thorn in Omara side. I have had this feeling for a very long time, that possibly not Omara as he was busy trying to save Geo from prison, but I just feel someone put a bug in SD ear. We noticed SD go flat out crazed about Omara at times. And for Omara to say what he did during Opening Statements about the ring, well IMHO that was a huge slap in the face towards SD. So much crap was said by SD that just hindered what the def team was trying to do. And most all on speculation.

        • Mimi and Lorac thank you for saying so much I wanted to say. And I certainly agree “Some people just want to bitch, no matter what.” Sundance has always had his own agenda, and it never included George’s best interest. IMHO O’Mara and West did a great job, and probably went the extra mile for George. I believe they will follow up with the lawsuits and everything that should be done. I believe they know a lot more about what they are doing and need to do than any of us will ever imagine.

    • Oh the TrayFam aint gonna file a civil suit, too much to come out about the no so angelic TM. But I guess we have lil over 2 half months, and I think then gonna see a lot of movement, JMO.

  16. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-legal-bills-20131129,0,7584756.story

    I have trouble understanding how it can be legal to charge someone such a high fee if you agree to do something for no charge. Cashill said the family was unable to change lawyers because O’Mara controlled the funds. There seems to be some legal issues here. The Zimmermans need whatever money they might get from the defamation suite.

    • Didn’t Cashill ‘consult’ with Sundance for his book? Maybe that’s where he got the idea GZ was unable to change lawyers because MOM controlled the funds.

    • Probono retainers are between client and attorney, and there are different kinds determined by the case, the Attorneys Office, and help etc. It appears MOM took the case for no fee initially prior to being aware GZ actually had funds for reasonable fees. They may have changed it once West came on where client and attys. created a new retainer agreement reflecting the terms of the new agreement being that GZ would pay reasonable fees.

      There is no evidence what so ever that GZ himself wanted a new atty. GZ even consulted GZ after the trial. There is no way legally an atty. could bind himself to a clients trust fund, or create a retainer, or condition that illegally binds the atty/ client relationship. . A lawyer must keep all oflient’s personal property separate from his or her own property, and return said personal property anytime a client demands it returned. This includes money not yet earned, which must be kept in a trust or escrow account.

        • His Father was not the client. GZ had on a few occassions on jailhouse calls and his actions by enterning into a contract and also not firing his attorney that he was pleased with MOM. What Sr., Jr, Cashill,SD, you and I think matters none!

        • Sharon, up above you mentioned that you feel that MOM abandoned GZ, and it was around the time of the Shellie incident. I saw MOM in an interview explaining that he had befriended both of them over 18 months, and didn’t want to represent one against the other. I think that makes total sense. Plus, no one knew a divorce was in the future, and Shellie could have shared some things with MOM that wouldn’t be appropriate for an opposing divorce attorney to know. Furthermore, there was never any guarantee that MOM would *ever* get paid – most attorneys wouldn’t even have taken a case like this. It’s not like a contingency case where if GZ wins he gets money so the attorneys get paid – it was simply a case that if he wins, he doesn’t go to jail. I think MOM and West and Lorna worked very, very hard – very, very hard – knowing the chances were they’d never get paid. I think that was a gift enough, they shouldn’t have to keep defending GZ forever for free as he accumulates more legal cases. IOW, there’s nothing wrong that they aren’t continuing to defend him, and for free, instead there’s something wonderful that they defended him, probably for free, for the huge, most important legal case.

          And, we don’t know why MOM presented the bill, but from what I’ve been able to tell, attorneys are very detail oriented, they have procedures for things, and I guess I don’t understand why you feel it is inappropriate for MOM to present the bill? Everything is wrapped up, figures totaled, so it’s time for the bill. It doesn’t mean MOM will ever get paid. The paperwork has been finished, the figures totaled, the bill finished – you give it to the client. It’s a natural progression, it seems to me. And MOM has publicly said that if GZ comes into a big amount of money, they want to get paid, but otherwise they don’t expect to see any money. I believe I heard MOM recently mention that these recent legal troubles may make it less likely that the civil suits go forward, so MOM may be figuring there’s no money coming.

          As far as Robert Sr goes – the family was estranged before the trial, and they seem to be estranged again after the trial from what I can tell. GZ could have dumped MOM, but he didn’t, and MOM won the case for him. According to SDC, he had the ear of both the Roberts. I have a bridge to sell you if you think SDC didn’t do all he could to turn them against MOM lol So IMO the only thing that matters is if GZ wanted MOM. So RZ Sr is saying that if he knew how much it cost, he would have picked a different lawyer? Well, it wasn’t for him to pick, and the chances are GZ would have lost the case. So he can gripe all he wants after the fact, but that’s easy to do now that GZ is safe from jail for the original charges. He of all people should know that a first class defense costs a lot, and he should also know that GZ can’t be made to pay it if he doesn’t have it.

          And – why is it all about MOM? How come no one is condemning West for not continuing to defend GZ? That’s a treehouse pattern – blame MOM, but not mention similar criticisms of West. I guess I don’t understand why these things are concerning you *now*. The payment arrangement stuff is all old news. ??

    • Cashill’s whole book was pretty much SDC’s work – if SDC thought it, Cashill wrote it. So, for the most part, if Cashill said something in the book, I took it with a grain of salt unless I had also read it elsewhere, because it probably came from SDC’s biased thoughts. I I were SDC, though, I would have asked for a cut of the profits, because it’s so heavily his work.

  17. Okay, I read what Robert Sr. said about O’Mara. It appears that he wasn’t completely happy with him but was reluctant to harshly criticize him because he took the case for free. It’s obvious from what R sr wrote, the family would have hired a different attorney if they could have and if they had known they would receive a bill of $2.5 mil.

    I just don’t see how it’s legal to offer to do something for free and then present that person with any bill, let alone such an extravagant bill. It appears that MOM isn’t going to push for collection, but if George wins a civil suite and MOM tries to take most of it or a major portion of it, Sundance may be George’s biggest advocate.

    I don’t support SD for trying to dry up the defense funds. He may have had a good motive but I don’t think it helped. O’Mara has dropped George and is clearly not on his side at this time. If George wins a small amount from the NBC law suite, O’Mara should not take it. If it’s a billion dollars, which is doubtful, then he deserves it. If that is what MOM is thinking when presenting this outrageous bill, then I have no problem with it. If he takes all the money available for George to have protection against death threats, then O’Mara is just another money grubbing, unethical attorney. The world is full of them.

    If that happens and Sundance goes after him, I will support Sundance.

    • The bill is not extravagant or unreasonable rates. $350 – $400 hr is going rate for an attorney. Don and Mark spend about 3,000 hrs each. $750 times 3,000 hrs is $2,250,000. It is what it is. The real discussion not being had that should be is why the losing parties and their “co-counsel” Crump not being held responsible for the debt.

      • Hooson1st,

        I might be wrong, but I have the impression that MOM abandoned GZ on the day he had the run in with Shellie. He really did very little or nothing for him after the trial. Then he hit him with a surprise bill that could render him unable to get security from death threats.

        • Sharon –

          I can see what you are saying and why.

          I can also see several other interpretations. Of course, each is based on sketchy facts and a lot of supposition.

          I think that we have learned (since the end of the trial) that the communication from the GZ side is less than clarifying.

          I, for one, do not find MOM’s not being GZ’s lawyer for all and everything to be a surprise. Instead, I view it as a normal development in such an intense legal battle. MOM gave it his all, and is proceeding on with his legal life.

          Lawyers do their best when they stick to their lawyering and do not get “married” to their client.

          Mom, I think, has honored his commitments to GZ, including remaining on in those few issues that are not yet concluded, as for instance, the sanctions business. Again, we are not privy to the inside of MOM’s office, so we don’t know how the exact facts pan out.

          On the day of GZ initial run-in with Shellie, MOM was pressed back into service, and, if you look at his presser, I thought he did a fine job.

          Clearly, MOM and West’s advice to GZ, as would any lawyer advise GZ after the acquittal, would be to keep a low profile, and avoid avoidable spats with Shellie, etc.

          GZ is his own man and is in a position to decide for himself how he wants to conduct himself. But if he doesn’t want to follow the advice of his lawyers, or former lawyers, he doesn’t have to.

          The $2.5 million dollar outstanding legal debt could also be viewed as an aid to GZ in obtaining indigent status. There are all kinds of ways of resolving these type of issues.

          Anyway, I appreciate your reply.

        • Respectfully, we don’t know the behind the scenes facts, just a lot of speculations. As to Omara surprising Geo with a huge bill, we do not know that Geo didn’t know about the bill. I would feel sure he did. Also it is not Mark O’mara responsibility to make sure that Geo has $ for anything. He and the legal team went above and beyond especially considering what they and their families had to endure for a supposed day at the office. If I were in Geo shoes, I would prob be kissing the ground that I was no in prison. Anything the legal teams make off of a civil suit, it what they worked for. I don’t understand why you think Geo is due $ and the ones who had to pay their bills and staff and days and nights meeting in the middle and lives turned on end with nonsense, yet don’t deserve their honest pay? Why do you think the lawyers don’t deserve payment? Remember there is a whole lot we don’t know and never will. I remember Mr Omara saying he was going to write a book. I hope he still does. I saying my $.

    • This takes us back to GZ not telling his Attorney about the paypal funds.
      The fact that MOM has been keeping tabs on his time should come as no suprise. He said back in May 2012, he initially thought GZ was indigent but he no longer was working for free.

      “O’Mara is no longer working for free. Late last month, he discovered $150,000 was remaining from $200,000 that Zimmerman had raised via a homemade website and PayPal account. Zimmerman already had used some of the money for living expenses, O’Mara said.

      Until then, he thought Zimmerman was broke. In fact, he had written but not yet filed a motion asking Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. to declare his client indigent for costs, meaning he wanted the state to pay all defense-related costs except for his fee — such things as hiring an investigator, paying for transcripts, hiring experts.”

      http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-08/news/os-george-zimmerman-free-lawyer-20120509_1_casey-anthony-mark-o-mara-circuit-judge-kenneth-lester

  18. The Conservative TreeHouse has mislead so many people on the client and attorney relationship, the trust fund, who controlled it, and even IF MOM/ West worked probono.
    First off….Make no mistake at all the money is GZs. GZ has & has had complete control, authority, and final say as to where any of that money went or goes! If there is any doubt as to the truth of this …….one need look no further than ” Florida Bar Rule 5-1.1, Rules Regulating Trust Accounts.”
    The Conservative Messiah was WRONG!

    Second. I never heard MOM or West ever state they were working “ProBono”. What I heard Mark say is “Don and I have not been paid.” We have no clue how and under what terms MOM was retained. However, if there have been two attorneys who earned their fees in this country it has been MOM & West.

    Thirdly. That some of GZs family have stated they did not like MOM to The OutHouse is no indication of what GZ himself felt. And since we cleared up GZ could have fired MOM that should be the only indication of whether or not he was happy with MOM.

    • I stand corrected he did state he initially took it on pro bono. However, we have no clue if fees were waived completly or if there was a change in the retainer/contract when West came on, and when the NBC suit came about.
      Jose Baez the Atty. on the Casey Anthony case initially took her case as probono as well.
      As she made money awaiting trial she pretty much gave him all the money from her deals. She was declared indingent. He got money through the State.
      I especially find nothing wrong with MOM/ West billing GZ for services when he had donors, was not indingent.

      • I find something wrong with billing after saying he would do it pro bono. I am one of the donors. I donated after the trial because GZ was still getting death threats and so were the other members of his family. The money I gave was to help protect them from those death threats.

        • I find something wrong with telling an attorney you are broke so he takes your case probono. None of “your” money paid the attorneys.

        • Sharon ~ the circumstances changed after MOM said he would do it pro bono, MOM stated repeatedly he is a businessman & he wanted to be paid, GZ knew that was the deal. Not many Americans could work at any all consuming job Pro Bono, for anyone. Imagine your business overhead, ALL the people in your office needing to be paid, your car notes for your family, insurance, mortgage, & ALL at having no income. MOM/West deserve their money, I hope they get it if the NBC Suit settles.

          The NBC case is not pro bono, it is done on a contingency.

          Janye Weinthraub is not defending GZ in the DV case pro bono, Taaffe, that is what Taaffe is trying to raise money for.

          • “Janye Weinthraub is not defending GZ in the DV case pro bono, Taaffe, that is what Taaffe is trying to raise money for.”

            How do you know she isn’t? I haven’t heard that she’s said one way or another. And I’m really not sure what Taaffe is doing or if it has GZ’s blessing.

            • Omara addressed all this on AC360 “Don and I Both Know we may never be paid or it may be far in the future”
              ” I did not accept this case expecting to get full payment “……what part of those two statements is so difficult to comprehend?

            • coreshift ~ if you read Taaffe’s missing statement as to the monies he is asking for in donations for GZ, he states “it is for GZ’s defense in the DV case.”

              Janye W. is not cheap nor is she free, she is expecting to be paid & Taaffe is hustling in GZ’s behalf to get her paid.

              • I have no idea what she expects. But surely she knew GZ was indigent and 2.5 million in debt. How realistic is it that she expects to be paid? Do you think she was aware of Taaffe’s efforts and expects there to be hundreds of thousands contributed to that fund like the first fund? Does she think GZ is going to get enough from civil suits to cover both her and MOM/West’s claims? Is she gonna fight for her slice against MOM/West? It doesn’t make sense to me that she expects to get paid. Not by an indigent client 2.5 million in debt.

                • coreshift ~ It was GZ that didn’t want a public defender, by all accounts, Dowdy was a good public defender w/a good tract record. GZ got himself a private attorney by CHOICE, a “free attorney” was not what GZ decided on. Jayne W., imo, will be in line to get paid from the NBC case after MOM/West. I speculate Jayne W. touched base w/MOM about the likelihood of that case settling in the next couple of years, & if so, she will get her money then, MOM was a phone call away for Jayne to make, she is far from stupid, it’s always about the $$.

                  It’s not likely the DV case is going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, why would it? It’s not going to be a big case except for the Court Appearances, hearing, & a couple of depositions. The gun charge will be the problem, why GZ CHOSE a private attorney that wasn’t an advocate for gun owners rights is another questionable decision that GZ made CHOICE.

                  • “GZ got himself a private attorney by CHOICE”

                    Who would want a public defender?

                    “MOM/West. I speculate Jayne W. touched base w/MOM about the likelihood of that case settling in the next couple of years, & if so, she will get her money then, MOM was a phone call away for Jayne to make, she is far from stupid, it’s always about the $$.”

                    Oh, so MOM and Jane are conspiring together to get money from GZ’s NBC suit that only a psychic could say will succeed? Gimme a break. She could make far more money representing a non indigent client that wasn’t 2.5 in debt. So could MOM. And it’s extremely doubtful, IMO, GZ is going to get more than a few million from the suit.

                    And I doubt Taaffe’s fund will bring in more than a few thousand. Really not worth Jane’s time or the physical risk associated with having such a client.

                    “why GZ CHOSE a private attorney that wasn’t an advocate for gun owners rights is another questionable decision that GZ made CHOICE”

                    Stop with the agenda BS. Remember, MOM spoke out against SYG (as written) and still successfully defended GZ. They do their jobs.

                    • “GZ got himself a private attorney by CHOICE”

                      Who would want a public defender?

                      Exactly. And remember after the trial, MOM said that the prosecutors are used to green public defenders, and are used to getting away with all the unethical behavior that MOM and West called them on (hiding evidence, etc).

                  • The gun charge will be the problem, why GZ CHOSE a private attorney that wasn’t an advocate for gun owners rights is another questionable decision that GZ made CHOICE.

                    It is rather odd, isn’t it? I hope she is professional and defends him the best she can, regardless of her personal feelings. But I have to admit, the first thing that ran through my mind was “omg, GZ is so beaten down by all this, he doesn’t think he deserves to win again, he’s become a masochist!” lol

                    • Lol Lorac – I kinda had the same horrible feeling… But Weintraub took the case, and must have convinced George she could do a good job for him. Hard for us to believe considering what we have seen in her tweets etc, but we don’t know what took place behind the scenes, and it’s just possible that the fact that she seems to advocate gun control will make her defense of George even stronger. Maybe she will convince a jury George is actually a responsible gun owner who would not have threatened Samantha with a weapon. Just my thoughts of course 😉

            • coreshift ~ LOL, Taaffe was the one that bailed GZ out of jail @ $ 900.00, I wouldn’t be surprised if GZ is living w/Taaffe.

              No one is stepping up to pay for Jayne W., how do you think her bill is going to be paid if not through donations since GZ is unemployable? Any monies donated to the last Defense Fund would be partially SZ’s as she requested in her divorce papers. Those defense funds were for the criminal trial NOT any future arrest. I’m sure if there is any money left in the account, MOM/West need to be paid w/some f the monies, the intent was not for future problems GZ had.

            • coreshift ~ you drop in & out periodically & miss a lot of the discussions, there was a long discussion on GZ’s donations for Jayne’s legal fees last week & Taaffe’s efforts to raise money. There are many links available up thread for you to read to catch up w/what’s going on.

              • I actually try to read every post, but maybe I missed something. Could provide links to the relevant sub-threads? Maybe a partial quote to provide context for a search since direct links don’t always get to the correct post? TYIA

                  • Yes, I’m familiar with the fund Taaffe started. My original question was:

                    “Janye Weinthraub is not defending GZ in the DV case pro bono, Taaffe, that is what Taaffe is trying to raise money for.”

                    How do you know she isn’t? I haven’t heard that she’s said one way or another. And I’m really not sure what Taaffe is doing or if it has GZ’s blessing.

                    • coreshift ! Taffee’s plea reads:
                      Donate to the George Zimmerman DEFENSE FUND!

                      Please contribute to the George Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund.

                      All contributions will go directly to help George in his quest to beat these bogus charges. We need all the help we can get, so please consider a donation, and realize that every single penny he can receive will help, and every single penny he receives is greatly appreciated.

                      George is in a fight for his freedom, freedoms we hope he continues to have once this fiasco is resolved. Thank you again!
                      _______________

                      coreshift ~ simply put, it would be fraud for Taaffe to raise money for GZ’s legal defense IF NOT to pay toward GZ’s legal costs, JW would have Taaffe charged immediately if it were not true for fraud. GZ has no options, he doesn’t want to ask for donations this time, GZ has alienated a lot of his previous supporters, Taaffe is trying to help GZ out, again, & you can bet GZ won’t turn a buck down Taaffe’s site raises nor will JW, she will likely keep an eye on the donation site.

                      There is no reason to think JW is pro bono, WHY would she be? Asking for legal fees in donations is stating GZ needs money for the defense, meaning, JW is not free!

                    • Great, so Taaffe is going to raise money and give it to GZ to pay for his defense in the DV case. How much? Is Jane anticipating a windfall from Taafee’s efforts or a slice of the civil suit pie? Seriously? A smart woman like her has to know she isn’t going to get paid. It’s ridiculous to even suggest that she expects to be paid. No offense, but no smart and rational person expects to get paid by someone 2.5 million in debt. You still haven’t given me a link where she says she took the case pro bono or with the expectation of being paid. You asserted she did expect to be paid. Give me a link.

          • GZ and his family/friends seem to want attorneys who are media contributors.
            I never felt it wise to state your case to the public at large. But they want us to pay his legal fees so it has to become a production. I really feel it is a mockery of the judicial system at this point. Resorting to Taffee is the confirmation. Resorting to Jayne who is a gun grabbing prog is double the confirm. SD should have a field day on this one. LOL. Jayne is the true form he was looking for in MOM.

    • The Orlando newspaper said O’Mara agreed to work without payment. Robert Sr did not state to the Treehouse that he didn’t like MOM. He wrote it in his book that he was not completely happy with him. He indicated, though, that he was grateful that O’Mara took the case without pay. I don’t know what he thinks now.

      O’Mara has done little or nothing for GZ since the acquittal. If there were no death threats and GZ could get back into life and get a job and be a productive citizen, there would be no problem.

      • Sharon you are a little late for all these critiques. MOM got GZ aquitted, and he no longer is his attorney on anything new. I believe the Zimmermans should be grateful. MOM did a mighty fine job considering the circumstances.

        • I would agree if MOM had not given GZ a bill for 2 and a half million. In GZ situation, that could mean the difference between life and death. GZ was fighting a trial on two levels. There was the legal battle and the public opinion battle. He needed an attorney who could win both cases. Had MOM done one for him for free and then left him on his own to fight the second one without presenting him with such an outrageous bill, I would not criticize. Money is a matter of life and death for GZ. If MOM takes all his funds and GZ gets murdered, which just might happen, MOM did him no service.

          • I’m not sure I’m understanding. GZ is indigent regardless of the money he owes to the defense team. How does MOM billing GZ or doing it pro bono change anything? Remember, the priorities of the defense fund spending place attorney fees last. Are you thinking that if MOM hadn’t presented a bill to GZ (we don’t know if he really did) that another attorney would be more likely to assist him pro bono?

          • It seems to me that GZ being 2.5 in debt actually benefits him in some ways I’m thinking that kind of debt means he could have tens of thousands in the defense fund and still be indigent. But I’m really not sure how that works. Do they consider available money and debt in the calculation to determine indigence?

            • Seem liabilities are used to determine indigence. At least the information provided to the clerk for the appointment of a public defender includes liabilities/debts. I’m assuming that means it’s used in the calculation.

              “27.52 Determination of indigent status.—
              (1) APPLICATION TO THE CLERK.—A person seeking appointment of a public defender under s. 27.51 based upon an inability to pay must apply to the clerk of the court for a determination of indigent status using an application form developed by the Florida Clerks of Court Operations Corporation with final approval by the Supreme Court.
              (a) The application must include, at a minimum, the following financial information:
              1. Net income, consisting of total salary and wages, minus deductions required by law, including court-ordered support payments.
              2. Other income, including, but not limited to, social security benefits, union funds, veterans’ benefits, workers’ compensation, other regular support from absent family members, public or private employee pensions, unemployment compensation, dividends, interest, rent, trusts, and gifts.
              3. Assets, including, but not limited to, cash, savings accounts, bank accounts, stocks, bonds, certificates of deposit, equity in real estate, and equity in a boat or a motor vehicle or in other tangible property.
              4. All liabilities and debts.
              5. If applicable, the amount of any bail paid for the applicant’s release from incarceration and the source of the funds.”

              http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/statutes/2011/0027.52

            • Your comment made me wonder – maybe any (divorce) attorney needs a bill for debts owed, “proof” as it were, to use in deciding what to charge a client, particularly if there is going to be any “sliding scale” used. We don’t actually know that GZ didn’t ask for the MOM bill to be tallied and presented to him, do we?

              • lorac ~ GZ was always going to receive a bill. GZ couldn’t get a bill from MOM/West until after the verdict because there were probably outstanding bills, hours, etc. & unfinished business, the bill they had to tallied.

                I have never heard of any attorney using a “sliding scale” except “legal aid attorney’s,” they are like Public defenders as they are paid by the State except they handle domestic issues, tenant/renter, child support etc. & they charge what the client can afford to pay using the sliding scale & the client’s last tax return.

                • Yes, I said upthread that they probably got everything tallied, and gave GZ the bill. It just occured to me that people are assuming that MOM “did this” to GZ, when for all we know, GZ needed his debt documented for some current reason….

                • I would also think for accounting reasons, and Federal Income tax reasons, for not only Omara, West and Lorna, but also for the law firm and expenses. Yes, there has to be some sort of check and balance and I do not see it as unreasonable. SMH

          • As unfortunate as it is that people went to the extent of death threats without allowing the system they used to railroad him in the first place to just play out ….you are angry at the wrong crowd. We all know freedom comes at a cost in this country …it is the whole reason we donated to begin with…so he could defend himself in court. Be angry at those who caused the $2.5 million bill in the first place. Be angrybat the ones who cause the need for an attorney.
            I believe how it works is IF GZ had not attempted to hide money from anyone he could have retained MOM at a flat rate, and not had been charged hourly. But since he withheld the amount of the funds when MOM was retained and when they were later revealed it became much more costly in more ways then one.
            Money was lost on bond, money was lost on security, money was lost on the defense. MOM worked with a prosecution who committed numerous Brady violations, the media, racists, death threats, a whole family unwilling to trust him, and some shady Judges. Not to mention a client who initially did not tell him everything he needed to know to plan accordingly.
            This all is the result of some bad decisons catching up with him. It is the moral of the story. Just tell the truth. Because in the end if you lie it catches up to you one way or another.
            Is it fair he has to suffer from death threats and live on the run? No. But he also can not nor can anyone expect he deserves to be taken care of by his supporters or defenders for the rest of his life. I think paying attorney fees is better then the alternative.
            As for safety ….again the issue is those making the threats. Perhaps he should figure out a way to find out who these people are so he can set an example that it wont be tolerated. Either tolerate it or be proactive. Nothing more can be done otherwise. Those are his options.

            • It’s not difficult to figure out who these people are who are making the threats. They make them from their twitter accounts. The family has turned their accounts into law enforcement, but this administration has selective enforcement and they have chosen to over prosecute anything GZ does and not prosecute anything done against him.

              I think most of us who donated money were concerned about the family’s security.

          • Well, I hope GZ himself is starting to take some responsibility for his own security – the speeding tickets were avoidable, and these scenes with the women didn’t have to happen. Personally I think he’s gone through h*ll and is having a hard time coping, but certainly he should be showing more concern for his own safety than you’re expecting of his previous attorney.

            But also – a lot of people go through divorce, or get involved in a DV case. Perhaps they’re working, but how many people have enough money saved for a legal case? Most everyone I would think has to find money they don’t have for legal representation. So, GZ isn’t working, but that’s not to say that someone working, with bills for raising their children along with all the other bills, has any more money than GZ for an attorney. Perhaps they get family to help if possible, or maybe use a legal aid attorney.

            GZ might actually be more advantaged than the average person, because he might find an attorney who wants to help him, not for the money he doesn’t have, but for the publicity and future business it might bring them. The average person wouldn’t have that available to them.

            GZ isn’t handicapped. He can keep himself safe if he gets his head on straight, by keeping a low profile and thinking ahead and not getting in any more emotional relationships when he’s not healed, and in which people may just be trying to exploit him. He’s always been a hard worker with goals. He can get back on track. And as I said above, he may actually have some advantages that the average person wouldn’t – which could include in the future a book, who knows.

            He has the “tools” inside himself that he needs – he just needs to focus and prioritize, get out of his current predicaments, and then figure out how to move forward. He will be okay – but only if he stops digging his own hole deeper! At least right now, he seems to be doing better at that, so maybe he can start filling in the hole and get back to ground level. But basically, I look to GZ to get his act together and take care of himself, not to MOM who isn’t even involved with him anymore….

            • I agree and feel the same lorac.
              That he was railroaded for having to defend himself if not a reason for supporters to feel compelled to keep paying his bills.
              I do not want to minimize his fears for safety but I remember on the jail house calls he had one call with his sister and another call with Shellie after his first apperance. He thought he would get bond even though MOM told him it was best not to seek bond at that apperance because the State could put forth evidence MOM was not privy too yet. His wife and sister looked at it in a positive way like most of us did then, by telling him that he should look at being in jail as being safe considering the threats on all of them were pretty new and fresh no one had to worry about his saftey.
              He replied “I was safe where I was. They never would have found me.”
              This was the day after he was arrested April 12 (I believe) and already in hiding since Feb. 26. So although his attorney, his family, friends, and supporters were and still are concerned he was not as concerned at the height of the hate as much as everyone else was for his saftey.
              That hate has died down. I am sure he has adjusted to having to live in hiding and I am not as concerned about saftey as I once was.

              I feel he has been told to avoid the media due to the NBC suit. One of the reasons I believe this to be the case is in the very beginning a few family and friends spoke on his behalf,until the NBC suit, then it changed to “my views are my own.” The other reason is he seems to be aching to stay in the spotlight, and it really matters to him that he gets his side of the story out no matter what happens. He did it by briefly reopening the realgz website. Nowits either through RZjr. or other sources who end up going to the media. And on a few occassion his parents website updated on their dislike of spun media stories.
              I feel there has been sufficient time for him and his family to adjust to the media spin zone and a life that must slowly be adjusted to an unfortunate event that caused such fame. It seems they want to address the public every time something is said, or someones opinion offends them.
              Eventually you just gotta move on from the haters. But they keep giving people more to talk about. It is like they live in their own world and it is all about them. In fact they seem to enjoy that they have the ability to demand it and have an excuse to demand it.
              I am glad to have supported them for the many causes that surrounded the GZ legal case. I fully expected by now they would have their ducks in a row. Ducks in a row to me did not mean to join the team that helped the cause of the railroading and use the same media for “truth.” Truth is very subjective when there is editing involved. How are they any different then BGI by what they are doing.
              I understand how hard it must be to readjust to a life that will never be the same. But at the same time it does not seem like they are trying very hard.
              So I have no choice but to have the opinion they enjoy the spotlight and fully expect defenders to support them until they decide to get it together.
              The nail in the coffin is GZ hiring JW. Because for me as a supporter I felt self defense, and gun rights were a major part of the political railroading of GZ. Now he goes and gets himself arrested on a weapons charge and hires a gun grabber who publicly has stated her opinions on support of rather strict gun regulations.
              So despite the banter of whether Schiebe set him up or not, used him for a pay day, he hired an attorney which is strictly against everything his own supporters stand for.

      • Sharon ~ imo, after the verdict, MOM/West owed GZ nothing, they did their job well. MOM stated clearly he was involved in the NBC Case & he would pursue the sanctions but that was the extent of his business w/GZ. MOM/West imo have done enough for GZ, 16 months w/no income is an unbelievable amount of time to dedicate to representing a client imo & getting the verdict that allows GZ to walk free.

        GZ does not have a “pro bono” attorney now w/Jayne Weinthraub, he is acquiring more legal bills to be paid, GZ could have kept Dowdy as a public defender at no cost to him BUT GZ CHOSE NOT to do that.

        Usually families step in to take care of their own, the Anthony’s have had 2 bankruptcies BEFORE KC’s verdict & they too didn’t have monies like GZ’s family claims they don’t, the family has supported KC who is unemployable & has death threats, the Anthony’s are flat broke & their home is in foreclosure, BUT, they shared what they had w/KC, no one has paid any living expenses for KC. She has had some outstanding attorney’s pro bono in her CIvil Suits.

        • There is a big difference in the death threats that KC may have had and the ones GZ has gotten. The difference is both in the volume and in who the threats are coming from. KC got threats from people who were angry but were not likely to do anything. GZ has a $10,000 reward on his head by the Black Panthers, which is a militant group much like the KKK of past generations. They and their supporters will act on those threats if they find GZ.

          If O’Mara agreed to take the case without charge and then sent him a bill after the trial because he “changed his mind” as the Orlando paper suggested, that is less than honest, especially if it is for such a large amount.

          I agree that MOM wouldn’t owe GZ anything after the trial if he did it without charge. For 2 1/2 million, I would think he should do something to try to ensure George’s safety after the trial. He hasn’t made much effort at that.

          • Sharon ~ as Danny stated up thread, the representation of GZ was most likely re-negotiated when West got involved, you can bet that GZ has agreed to pay for his defense w/NBC proceeds & has probably signed a contract accordingly. Most of us heard MOM say repeatedly, “I am a businessman, I would like to be paid.” Did you not hear that interview? MOM stated it many times in many interviews, MOM was clear. You seem confused as to why GZ got a bill, it was BECAUSE he owes for his defense, he has agreed to pay for his defense, has signed an agreement to pay the cost should he “come into monies,” meaning the NBC suit. GZ couldn’t get a bill until the case concluded.

            You seemed confused as to the facts, you are implying that MOM changed his mind & sent GZ a bill. This is incorrect, GZ got a bill because the verdict was read & the case had reached a conclusion, the decision for the defense to be paid was a year & a half ago, it wasn’t a whim as you seem to imply. If you have ever had an dealing w/an attorney for anything, they have their clients “sign” for payment, it’s not a verbal conversation, it’s their business to have their dealings legally written & their client sign.

            You continue to think MOM owes GZ something now, GZ’s safety is not MOM’s responsibility, it’s not MOM’s problem to provide any security to GZ but it was MOM that had to write the check to pay $ 30,000.00 in the Security settlement. I’m baffled as to why you think GZ is owed security or anything else at MOM’s expense. GZ is the responsibility of his immediate family, not his former attorney’s that were successful in delivering the NOT Guilty verdict.

            KC receives death threats today, she is unemployed and her case has been over several years, KC has filed for bankruptcy, & her family is looking at yet another one. KC need security too but who will pay for it?

            • I have no clue of the terms of the MOM and West retainment.
              But many cases have been taken on Probono and later attorneys get paid.
              There is a misconception about Probono. There are so many terms to that in Private Practices. Probono is free attorney services, but despite that fee there are so many many costs in a defense case. Some attorneys do charge a retainer for court costs, overhead, and other things but offer their represenation free. In fact there are many court cases surrounding the ethics of charging fees on probono work. Some take on the case with a flat rate and later do it free when the retainer runs out.

              So there is nothing illegal about it as Sharon thinks. Lorac said about a sliding scale. That could be done as well. An attorney can charge anything below their normal rates legally. What would be unethical is charging a lower rate and then raising it to help a client out soley for debt purposes. Such as in a divorce or bankrupcy case.

              It does appear that what happened is MOM was unaware of the magnatude of the defense fund GZ created. MOM stated he was aware of $2,700 that other people created in support. He was not aware of the paypal GZ set up until after his release during first bond. I believe each jurisdiction has different indigent rules but they look at on hand liquid funds to determine if one is indigent.
              Terms of retainment was most likely changed when MOM became privy to the paypal defense fund. Being it would be unethical he could not touch it to pay himself. But the money could be used for other services that were linked to the defense.
              I am pretty sure even if the paypal still had money in it MOM could NOT touch it for his fee. And he has given no indication he has ever wanted donated funds for his service.

              He most likely will expect payment from the NBC suit. One reason GZ I believe is likely staying off media. The next step in that case is to determine if GZ is a private or public figure. If the court determines he is a private individual he has a prima facie case. If the the court sees him as a public figure he has to prove much more. The court will most def. look at pre & post trial publicity to determine if he is deemed a public or private figure.

              All in all we may never know the terms of the MOM and West retainment. If or when it was changed. If or when it ever was “probono.” But the fact that MOM stated that GZ paid a minute amount after trial indicates GZ was aware he was responsible for at least some fees.

              MOM and Shellie just had settled with the security team GZ wanted hired after his release from bond. GZ refused to settle. He benefited from the teams services knowing the cost because he had to approve the hiring of the security team. Both families benefited from the services as well. They could have chipped in since they are getting paid, and given donations.
              I think that is where MOM was like “whoa wait a second”.

  19. Danny ~ you stated up thread Jose Baez was “pro bono.” That is NOT correct, Jose Baez was a “private attorney” retained by KC & Baez was paid $ 89,000.00 until KC ran out of money. KC had a war chest of $ 375,000.00 at the beginning & once all the money was spent, KC was declared “indigent.” Because Baez received monies from KC, Baez as her private attorney, it disqualified Baez from drawing any attorney fees for the one attorney an indigent status client is afforded. Baez made a total of $ 89,000.00 on KC’s trial.

    Baez billed KC $ 500,000.00 for legal fees after the verdict & Beaz’s legal bill was wiped out off through KC’s bankruptcy.

    • Was thinking about Cheny Mason and other attorneys. You are correct. Baez was paid, some other attorney recieved expenses. Geeze, that indigent hearing was confusing! Learned alot though!

      • Danny ~ I am no fan of Jose B., but he & Mason pissed & moaned during the entire trial wanting monies they were disqualified for. You’re right, LK Baden was pro bono but left because the JAC wouldn’t pay her air fare from NY, Andrea Lyon’s, Law professor w/specialty in death penalty cases too left due to cost denied by the JAC for travel. Baez had his 3rd & 4th houses foreclosed on during the trial as he couldn’t make the payments. I agree, it was confusing because many of the “dream team attorney’s” left as there was not going to be available monies for them as they had thought.

        Baez thought he would make a ton of monies after KC’s verdict, I am reading about cases he is doing in “wrongful death,” he was doing 2 cases in the Colorado Theater Shootings, & a sad case in Miami where a loved Chef was run over/killed by a 20 yr. drunk bartender, LMAO, of course Baez contacted ALL the families involved to offer his representation, ambulance chasing. The 3 cases will be lucrative & imo, settled out of court for a lot of money. Baez sued the 20 yr. olds employer, deep pockets, he will get big bucks for all 3.

  20. So did O’Mara actually say he was taking George’s case pro bono, or did he just take it without a big retainer up front and in full knowledge that he might never see more than a small fraction of what he earned?

    And should we have a new thread for this?

    As for his current case, the guy who left private practice and went back to the PD’s office seemed ideal for George, so I can’t help but wonder what caused him to hire whatshername, or why she wants to get within a mile of his case.

  21. Propaganda piece i just received in my email from Joe Biden

    The White House, Washington

    Twenty years ago, President Clinton signed the Brady Bill into law.

    That law said that if you want to purchase a firearm from a federally licensed dealer in this country, you have to get a background check first. It was a historic piece of legislation — one that’s kept 1.5 million of the wrong people from getting their hands on a firearm in the last 14 years.

    But in the wake of the tragedy in Newtown — a year ago this month — we know we’ve got to keep working to build on that progress.

    And so even after a minority of Senators blocked commonsense legislation to reduce gun violence this spring, we’re pushing forward.

    President Obama laid out 23 executive actions to make sure the Administration took essential and rapid steps to save lives while respecting our Second Amendment rights. And since January, we’ve completed or made significant progress on all of them.

    President Obama is keeping his word to make sure our families and communities are safe. See the progress we’ve made.

    Those 23 executive actions are keeping guns out of dangerous hands. They’re providing support for communities to hire school resource officers. And they’re reducing the stigma around mental illness.

    Now, it’s not enough to take these steps on our own — we still need Congress to pass comprehensive legislation to reduce gun violence. We need expanded background checks, and we need to create serious penalties for gun trafficking. There is no question that these kinds of measures would protect our kids and keep our communities safer.

    No parent should ever face the horror of the scene at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Or a movie theater in Aurora. Or a temple in Oak Creek. Or the campus at Virginia Tech.

    We’ve seen too much gun violence as a country. And if there’s even one thing we can do to save a life, it is our most sacred duty to try.

    That’s where I stand. And you have my word that the President and I are doing everything we can to make sure no parent loses their child to gun violence.

    Take a look at the progress we’ve made:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/Reducing-Gun-Violence

    Thank you,

    Joe

  22. If this is David Dean as in father of Shellie Zimmerman, he has quite a shady and checkered past

    Case Number: 591990CF003508B Judge: ALVA, MARLENE M
    Defendant Name: DAVID DEAN
    DOB: 06/1954
    0 CONSP COMMIT RACKET
    0 DEAL STOLEN PROPERTY
    0 DEAL STOLEN PROPERTY
    0 DEAL STOLEN PROPERTY
    0 DEAL STOLEN PROPERTY
    0 DEAL STOLEN PROPERTY
    0 DEAL STOLEN PROPERTY
    0 GRAND THEFT 2ND DEG
    0 GRAND THEFT 3RD DEG
    0 GRAND THEFT 3RD DEG
    1 RACKETEERING
    2 CONSPIRACY RICO
    3 GRAND THEFT
    4 GRAND THEFT
    5 DEAL STOLEN PROPERTY
    8 GRAND THEFT
    9 GRAND THEFT
    10 GRAND THEFT
    14 GRAND THEFT

  23. Crump is rallying the racial grievance troops to appear at the Georgia State Capitol on December 11th. I find this odd because Crumpster already got his Eric Holder approved racial grievance DOJ investigation. Vickie at Re-newsit posited that it could be indicative that the US Attorney notified Crump that they have not found anything criminal and are closing the case. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

    • Wouldn’t the Georgia rally be connected with the young man found dead inside the rolled up gym mat, and not the Zimmerman case?

      It’s too soon for any DOJ investigation, if there is one, of the Georgia case to have wrapped up.

  24. Hey Eveyone! I’ve been dealing with a family member in crisis these past few days. I’ve not really read the posts here but a smattering of a few. I’ve started a new thread to keep the discussion going. Talk soon. ♥

  25. “7:32 p.m. EST, May 31, 2012|
    By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

    George Zimmerman, the defendant in one of the most-watched murder cases in the country, on Thursday added a new lawyer to his defense team: veteran Orlando attorney Donald R. West, who specializes in murders.”

    “West said he hoped to be paid but was committed to the case should that not happen.”

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-31/news/os-george-zimmerman-new-lawyer-west-20120531_1_federal-public-defender-defense-lawyer-legal-team

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