Home » Uncategorized » Open Thread – April 9/14

Open Thread – April 9/14

Open Discussion

What thoughts/issues would you like to share with us today?

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231 thoughts on “Open Thread – April 9/14

  1. Is anyone else following the Bundy story in Nevada? I think it would be a good topic but will wait to see if others are as interested as me.

    • Not following so much as aware of but not sure what to think other than a full explanation probably requires several law professors and historians to go back and examine everything from the days when that land was still part of Mexico.

    • Drudge is reporting the Fed is releasing some of the cattle and disengaging; apparently some kind of negotiation involved. Sounds like they’ll go back to administrative haggling for a bit. Do you have any understanding of what’s going on?

      • I am following it closely. It has temporarily come to a halt but that does not mean it is over. Hop over to CTH. They have a lot of threads on the issue.

          • There should be no issue with posting the truth. Others have done so and I have suggested we wait for more facts. I am only recently reading history and so far, it does not favor Bundy. Alex Jones has once again jumped to an erroneous conclusion and made many folks look dumb.

            This was not the battle we should have been fighting.

          • Reagan’s executive order only established the manner by which the federal government would determine the “amount” of fees to be assessed, and did not address the purpose for collecting those fees, and did not establish who had ownership rights to the land, itself. The federal government was only asked to intervene as a neutral 3rd party and to adjudicate between the various parties who claimed the right to graze cattle on the land. And THAT is the legal foundation for the federal charges for grazing. But these fees are not for the actual grazing, itself, but are intended to be compensation to the federal government for their administrative costs to settle disputes and “manage” the system. There’s a good explanation of this at this site:

            http://www.wnd.com/2003/11/22039/

            “The doctrine of “prior appropriation” governed land and water acquisition in the West long before there was a United States. This doctrine means that the first person to find water, and put it to beneficial use, had the exclusive right to use the water and the adjacent land and forage sufficient to maintain the livestock the water would support.

            The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, signed in 1848, decided the boundary between Mexico and the United States. Article Eight of this treaty declares that citizens living within the area assigned to the United States, would “retain all the property they possess without their being subjected, on this account, to any contribution, tax or charge whatever.”

            “In the late 1800s, the federal government established a mechanism for adjudicating these conflicts. Based on established and recorded rights to water, the adjudicators developed a way to measure the forage that would be required to support the cattle that could be supported by the available water.”

            “This simple process of adjudicating the existing rights of ranchers evolved to enlarge the fee to cover not only the adjudication costs, but to also provide a portion to local government, and to create a “range improvement fund,” which could be used by the ranchers to help defray the cost of capital improvements to the range.”

            This is the basis of Cliven Bundy’s protest. The federal government doesn’t own the land, but only manages it to settle disputes between local ranchers and other parties who desire to use it for other purposes. Cliven Bundy says that his family had prior claims to the water rights, and says that the funds collected by the BLM are actually owed to the State, since that was the purpose for which they were originally authorized. He maintains that the feds have NOT been using the funds to provide “capital improvements to the range” and have not provided any portion of the brazing fees to the “local government.” Bundy also asserts that it is HIS family that has made the “capital improvements” to the water systems on that range. (Note that part of what the BLM did during their “roundup” was to remove water systems that the Bundy family had constructed.)

    • Jordan this has nothing to do with Bundy’s ranch. Bundy has stated he has NO contract with Federal govt. He is willing to pay ANYTHING he owes to either the State of Nevada, or Clark County, but feels he owes not one cent to the Feds. I have a friends and family that live in Vegas and I debated one of my friends on FB the other day. They took the side of the BLM (I assume because they did not have the info that has recently come out). Two good links about that land in Clark County and also an article on the problem with Fed. owned land in Nevada.

      http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/

      and, although from 2007, I’m sure these are still issues today

      http://www.npri.org/publications/the-federal-land-stranglehold-2

      • I have serious doubts about the Reid story. People have jumped to conclusions without reading the history of this issue. My thoughts from the start were that they might be picking the wrong battle. Now that I have had time to read a bit more, I doubt seriously that this will work out the way so many hoped it would. Remember that it was the ranchers themselves who originally brought the BLM into resolve their disputes.

        I am a patriot and had hoped this would be a good chance to show that we will stand up to the government but I am a bit “embarrassed” now.

        • No need to be embarrassed. Right now even Brietbart says Bundy is in the wrong. However, it’s really not about this ONE particular instance. It’s about the Govenment systematically using its power to strongarm small ranchers. Like Bundy has said … he’s the last man standing. He had tons of other ranchers around him but because of the govenment they are all gone now. To me it’s like Obamacare. It’s law, but many feel it isn’t right. Correct? Bundy is at the very least demonstrating how government flexes muscles. What gets me, is that they left the guy alone for decades. It’s only in the more recent past that they decided to use the turtles as an excuse to start with him. Why didn’t they pursue this with this much vigor over the last couple decades? I don’t think we know the FULL story. We just have to keep watching this to see how it all plays out. Let me give you a statement made by a Bundy family member which I found in the comments section on the Brietbart piece: “By SHIREE BUNDY COX:
          I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM
          fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so
          much to it, but here it is in a nut shell.

          My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back
          in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned
          them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights
          to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the
          survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax
          dollars. These rights to the land use are called preemptive rights.

          Somewhere down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the
          bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly
          allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with
          repaires and improvements of the ranches.

          My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were
          no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began
          using these money’s against the ranchers.”

          • I have now read a number of links to the history of this issue going back to the time Nevada became a state. IMO, Bundy should have had a much better legal team and should have persuaded all of the other ranchers to join in the fight. Too late for that now unless a pro bono attorney is willing to argue the case for him.

            I am not seeing much on other sites to acknowledge the correct status of the way things stand right now legally. You probably have read these stories.

            http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/14/Feds-to-Pursue-Bundy-Ranch-Judicially-After-Standoff

            http://allenwestrepublic.com/2014/04/11/the-real-story-behind-the-bundy-ranch-harassment-with-dana-show-dloesch/

            What will happen next?

            • Jordan, Megyn Kelly’s show tonight had some great reporting on this. Her show here in Central time zone is almost over, so if you can catch it when it runs the second time around that would be good. I’m almost positive Sean Hannity will be reporting on it also. I couldn’t believe that FOX was the only media outlet at the standoff. It was reported on Megyn’s show that the ranchers were prepared to die. It was that serious. Fox is the only outlet covering it. Watch a lil and see what you can glean. Another good point made on the show is that the drug cartel use BLM to transport drugs, but no BLM with guns are waiting for them. Just bits and pieces of comments … I’m sure Fox website, on Megyn’s page, will have the video in the next few days from her show tonight just in case you miss it.

            • Here’s how I see it. Bundy is on wrong side of the law. However, Obamacare is law and many don’t agree with that also. Bundy does not want to acknowledge BLM (the Feds). He has stated many times, he is the last man standing. That he used to have many ranchers surrounding him, but now, because of BLM, they are all gone. BLM was suppose to help the ranchers, not go against them. And for a time, Bundy did pay them. But when he saw they were using the money against them, instead of helping them, that’s when he had a change of heart. Judge Napolitano had a very good suggestion the other night. He said, let BLM bring an Injunction, and just put a lien against the ranch. This way, there is no need to come out people with weapons or confiscate their animals. That makes sense to me. It’s like the Branch Davidian matter, when women and children died, when they could have nabbed Koresh when he went into town for supplies. I believe however that there is much more going on down in the Southwest than we are privy to. We know that Harry Reid HAD an interest in investiments with regard to solar panels. I believe that fell through. However, Fracking is another subject for that area:

              I think there is a lot going on there that we do not know about, and if we actually lived there we would have a better idea of the whole picture.

            • Considering all that I said above, I think this article sums it up best as to what we have going on here from the viewpoint of one watching this unfold:

              “The lesson here has nothing to do with endangered tortoises, or contract rights predating the formation of the BLM, grazing fees, states right or even whether the government is acting heavy-handedly by using armed men to seize cattle.

              Rather the lesson is about caring citizens standing up for a cause, while openly criticizing and scrutinizing the government. That is the activity democracies are made of. Whether the cause of Cliven Bundy is legitimate is beside the point. We have citizens peaceably forming a protest against what they believe is government overreaching. That alone has drawn scrutiny over the governments actions. Such scrutiny and oversight are instrumental in a democracy.”

              http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/04/14/bureau-land-management-cliven-bundy-column/7674165/

              • Thanks for your perspective and sharing the links. I was surprised to see the article by USA Today.

                So far it appears that the demonstrators at the Bundy Ranch have done nothing illegal. They were exercising there rights to assemble, protest, what they believe was government overreaching. The BLM, on the other hand, have been accused of excessive force, reckless tazing, and even attempting to geographically relegate protesters to presumably unconstitutional “First Amendment Zones.” Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval even criticized the BLM for creating “an atmosphere of intimidation.”

                In the long-run, the value of citizens exposing the BLM’s response will be more telling than the arcane details of dispute about grazing fees.

                • I have been digging into the history aspect of the grazing permits but not all the way back to the beginning. I’ve dug around info from the 70’s to the 90’s.

                  What I have found is in Las Vegas in the 70’s they realized the rapid expansion of the city over the coming decades.
                  Sometime around 1990 the gov set the area as a protected zone (HCP) for the tortoise. Las Vegas now had no room to expand as all the land right up to city limits was protected. The 1991 short-term HCP plan from the county delves greatly into “Take and Mitigation” and purchasing the existing grazing permits to use as pawns.

                  Jump to a little Bundy History for a second.
                  1993 Mr Bundy won’t pay his grazing fee. One of many reasons he gave was that he realized that the monies were being used to put the ranchers out of business.
                  1995 BLM revokes and permanently retires Mr Bundy’s Bunkerville grazing allotment.
                  1998 Clark County purchases the Bunkerville grazing allotment for $375,000.

                  Why would the county purchase a dead allotment?
                  “Take and Mitigation”. For those who don’t know what this is, “Take and Mitigation” is like the carbon credits of the 90’s. It allows one to Take the flora or fauna of the protected area to Mitigate the damages one would do and move them to another area.

                  The Bunkerville allotment was mentioned on the BLM’s scrubbed website. It was the “offsite mitigation” that was mentioned for the Dry Lake Solar project.
                  But the allotment wasn’t just for the solar developer it was a general dumping zone for anyone who needed it. The cities, the county, real estate developers and private business.

                  Imho, the endangered species here is the rancher. Not the tortoise. Who by the way has been down graded recently from endangered to threatened.

                  “Take and Mitigation” is like the carbon credits of the 90’s.

                  • Raising beef in Nevada is problematic on so many levels. Only 3% of the nations beef is raised in western states. Do you know how much water there is in a desert state like Nevada? Las Vegas can only grow so big, again WATER determines scale of development. Water is the primary factor of development and agriculture for the southern western states.

                • I had made an argument the other day that they showed up like gang busters with Bundy breaking THE LAW, but we have immigration laws on the books, and the Feds are nowhere to be found on that, and that extends to State and local govenment with Sanctuary cities etc.. I saw that the treehouse also picked up on this today as an argument. I do believe that too contributes to the frustrations that many Americans have and that is that the govenment picks and chooses what laws it wants to enforce. And I do think that adds to why so many are behind Bundy. There’s a hypocrisy here, but of course, it’s all politically driven. The effect of all these illegals that have come here has had far more reaching economic effects that the puny 1M owed by Bundy. If immigration needs to be reformed … fine REFORM IT, but until it is reformed … enforce the laws on the books. They haven’t been doing that. for a VERY long long time.

  2. I LOVE NUMBER STUFF! Not algebra kind of stuff 😉 But well silly stuff. Drives my kids CRAZY! But wanted to share this with yall! Every date this week is going be the same backwards:
    4/12/14
    4/13/14
    4/14/14
    4/15/14
    4/16/14
    4/17/14
    4/18/14
    4/19/14

      • LMBO I love number… my daughter (that this drives crazy) fav # as a very small girl loved #7. Oh my I can tell you so many things in her life that one way or another is an equation or whatever of 7. ROFL my first grandson… weighted 7#14 oz and 21 inches long. lol 7×1=7 7×2=14 7×3=21 😉 lol I wake up thinking lol. Birthdates… lol son in law born 6/1/ 6+1=7 lol granddtr 1/8 8-1=7 oh silliness 😉

        • I can understand Husband responsible for wife, or vice versa, but grown child responsible for what parents did? Doesn’t sound right to me.

          • To me either, especially after SO many years. Also, I have a neighbor who few years ago, that they took $ from a family members return, but in that case the family member had been a dependent on tax return but was within 5 yrs. It was in PA. **disclaimer… I don’t know the full story, just my neighbor was telling me about happen to her sister. And lol she wasn’t too upset.

    • I read that there used to be a 10 year statute of limitatons, but on a recent bill (about something else) they threw in a line which got rid of that statute of limitations.

      You know, if they would just focus on jobs (which was Obama’s mandate from day one), they could get taxes that way, instead of spending more and more on unemployment, disability, food stamps, etc, and having to come up with more and more ways to tax us to pay for these things we wouldn’t have to if they would let us become America again 😦

      • I agree. I am 51, and there are so many people my age and under that think this is something that is like an inheritance owed them! And I have heard people yapping how are people suppose to live off of $ amount of fs. DUH that like food banks are ment to supplement not fill your ever need. SMH. ok rant over. Thankful my girls realized and that I taught them right on that. (at least I done some things right hahaha)

    • I must be living under a rock re: George and recent goings on. I know about the previous fight scheduled that fell through. I know about the selling of art, but what happened between Taffe and George. I personally like Taffe. Could this just something the two concocted together to raise some money? The two should start a radio show. I think it would be a big hit.

      • I guess we are having coffee under same rock 😉 I just saw that on my twitter line or whatever its called when I got online a bit ago. Waiting for bad storms and wanted to check the weather lol.

        I agree prob publicity, if its true.

    • FROM RADAR ONLINE AS TO NOT GIVE THEM ANY HITS. This is National Enquire online IIRC lol

      .
      Taffee George Zimmerman
      George Zimmerman‘s boxing bout with rapper DMX was called off after the organizer pulled the plug, but RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned that hasn’t stopped opponents from asking for a chance to fight the acquitted killer — and the latest is his one-time pal and key witness, Frank Taaffe.

      Zimmerman’s former best friend and biggest defender during his first-degree murder trial of teenage Trayvon Martin has had a change of heart and World Xtreme Entertainment CEO Damon Feldman tells Radar it’s because the two had a falling out.

      “They were neighbors and friends, but now Frank wants to fight George in the boxing ring because numerous phone calls to George have gone unreturned,” Feldman said.

      And Taaffe tells Radar, “I feel like I was used and not treated fairly by George.”

      “I was always there for him,” Taaffe continued. “I backed him through this whole fiasco and now he is nowhere to be found. I put myself on the line for this guy.”

      Taaffe tells Radar he wants to get Zimmerman in the ring — and even calls himself “the white Al Sharpton.”

      “I saw that he wanted to do a boxing match, and I want George bad. This is the way to settle this legally…in the ring,” Taaffe said.

      “I am the white Al Sharpton. I love everyone and I am just very out spoken. I plan on knocking Zimmerman out for what he did and for turning his back on me .

      If Zimmerman agrees to the match, it will go three rounds.

      It was Radar who first reported that Zimmerman has been training in the boxing ring and would like to enter into a bout with a celebrity to raise money for a charity.

      • Good grief! Frank supported someone because it’s the right thing to do and then becomes upset when his calls aren’t returned? Maybe GZ doesn’t think Taffe did him any favors?

        • I don’t think any of that is true … personally. I think it’s just a ruse (a story) in order to arrange this match. These two could come up with something better than this.

            • Yes, I think I read that before, but even with REAL boxers … they build up to a fight by talking trash when in real life they are good friends. See what I mean? They (meaning George and Frank) would have to create a conflict … otherwise … we’d be saying … well, why are they fighting each other. If for instance you showed me months and months of tweets by Frank bitching and moaning about George, I might bite … MIGHT. But usually these crazy “two guys once friends” are gonna fight … is just a ruse, despite what statements Frank made. It’s a mild complaint of … you don’t know me anymore after all I’ve done for you. hope this explains my reasoning. Just my opinion on knowing the fight game. You gotta talk trash before a fight. Gotta build it up. And since George isn’t talkin … Frank takes over.

  3. YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW HATER!

    • Cant you see it….. Officer I thought he was going to kiss my hand, but he started gnawing on my wrist! ROFL! …. then ole Chump come to help the poor Racheal Jeantel.. I mean lady because she is now scared for life….

        • TULSA, Okla. (KRMG) — Hungry while dancing with your prom date?

          Not a problem now that KFC has developed the “edible drumstick corsage.”

          The $20 kit includes a corsage and a $5.00 gift certificate that can be used to buy a drumstick that is attached to the corsage, promising to keep prom goers happy, and full.

          KFC’s site recommends choosing the drumstick that best complements your date’s dress.

          Today says the fowl can be crispy or original recipe and “right now now I’m told no sides, they’re just doing the chicken.”

          But don’t get your heart set on a romantic dance and dinner all at the same time.

          There will just be 100 of the tasty corsages sold, and only in Louisville, Kentucky.

  4. Look what I will be attending next week.

    Sonny Hostin CNN, Andrea Roth, Professor, Berkeley Law; Andrew Branca, Self-Defense Expert, Tamara Rice Lave, Associate Professor of Law Univ of Miami
    will debate

    Stand Your Ground: A Policy Debate by BiPP
    Tuesday, April 22, 2014 • 6:00pm–8:00pm

    Berkeley Law School – Room 105 (2778 Bancroft Way, Berkeley CA)

    The debate will focus on the controversial “Stand Your Ground” (SYG) self-defense law, which garnered national attention after the fatal shooting of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin in February 2012. Twenty-two states now have some variation of SYG law.

    Attorney General Eric Holder has said he will actively pursue the repeal of SYG laws because such laws “senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sow dangerous conflict in our neighborhoods.”

    Legal and policy experts will debate Holder’s call for the repeal of SYG laws, and then participate in a Q&A session with the audience.

    • cassandra

      I very much look forward to your perspective on this. I have never seen Andrew Branca debate live and hope he can hold his own in a pit of vipers. Looking at the cast, I feel confident he knows self defense laws better than anyone in the group. My guess is that his opponents will be well armed with their own ludicrous “facts.”

      Have you or anyone here seen any reasonable alternatives proposed by these people?

      • ** have always heard best right after rainfall makes sense… but I think have been found other times too.
        Digging for Diamonds
        Where can diamonds be found? The answer might surprise you. Arkansas’s Crater of Diamonds State Park is the only diamond-producing site in the world where the public can search for diamonds. And the policy here is “finders, keepers,” meaning the diamonds you find are yours to keep. ……….

        The diamond-bearing soil in the diamond search area is plowed periodically when weather allows to help bring more diamonds to the surface. Plowing is unscheduled but generally takes place once a month during spring, summer, and fall. Historical structures, old mining equipment, washing pavilions, and sun shelters are located on the field. Diamond mining tools are available for rent or purchase at the park.

        Fees to search for Diamonds

        Adults: $8
        Children (ages 6-12): $5
        Children under 6 years old: FREE

        Admission is good for the entire day. You may come and go throughout the day on the same admission fee. Tickets purchased after 4:00 p.m. are still good for admission the following day.
        Organized groups of 15 or more may receive half price admission if the park is notified in advance of visit. From Memorial Day through Labor Day tickets purchased after 6 p.m. are also good for the following day. NOTE: Organized groups do not include large family groups.

        http://www.craterofdiamondsstatepark.com/

    • Mimi, I hadn’t thought of that horrible Powell family tragedy in a while. The picture of those precious innocent little boys broke my heart all over again. It’s a shame the insurance money can’t go to Susan Powell’s parents. They suffered and lost so much.

  5. So here is literally the millions dollar question…. Harry Reid and Barack Obozo are sending in the heavily armed goon squad over Cliven Bundy’s alleged 1.7 million dollar tax debt. So Harry and Barack… when can we expect the sniper units and apache gunships to arrive at Al Sharpton’s national action network headquarters regarding Al’s 2.7 million dollar delinquent tax debt?

    • Hi Cassandra,

      Wish I was still there in Beserkeley for this kangaroo cour . . . err, I mean debate, there on campus. Can’t wait to get your report on next Tuesday’s event. Interestingly, I found this announcement at the UC Berkeley Department of Ethnic Studies (???). No mention of George Zimmerman being an Hispanic, however — we’re not here to discuss THAT ethnicity, know what I mean?

      http://events.berkeley.edu/index.php/calendar/sn/ethnic.html?event_ID=77000&date=2014-04-22

      Has potential of being a barn burner . . . then again, maybe the furor has died died down a little with the passage of time. Be safe, my dear.

        • Ain’t that the truth!
          “Desperate times call for desperate measures.”
          “Beating a dead horse”
          “(‘trayvon supporters’) . . .Voting with their feet.”
          Yawn, etc.

      • Here’s what one of the participants in the Debate Tuesday had to say Re: the Zimmerman verdict:

        “Zimmerman did not ask for an immunity hearing before his criminal trial, but that does not preclude him from requesting one if he faces a civil trial, says associate law professor Tamara Rice Lave of the University of Miami’s School of Law.

        At a pretrial immunity hearing, Lave says, Zimmerman would have to show a preponderance of evidence, quantified as a 51 percent burden, that he acted lawfully under the state’s stand your ground statute.

        Zimmerman likely didn’t ask for an immunity hearing before his criminal case, she said, because he would have had the burden to prove he acted lawfully.

        “When he went to trial, it was the prosecutor’s burden to prove he didn’t act in lawful self-defense,” she said, adding: The prosecutor also had to prove to a jury Zimmerman’s guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt,” a far higher bar to clear than proving a “preponderance of evidence.”

        Meanwhile, check out Prof. Tamara Rice Lave’s incredible CV (that is, besides being an international marathoner), at least the Educational aspect of her CV:

        Tamara Rice Lave
        Associate Professor of Law
        Fellow, Institute for Legal Research, UC-Berkeley
        Ph.D., University of California, Berkeley
        M.A., University of California, Berkeley
        J.D., Stanford Law School
        B.A., Haverford College

        She may not be an advocate of changing the law after all. Here’s what she had to say with respect to any Civil Case

        ““Technically, there can still be a civil case,” said Tamara Rice Lave, a professor of criminal law at the University of Miami and a former San Diego public defender. “However, ‘Stand Your Ground’ is going to preclude that.”
        At the start of his trial, Zimmerman waived the right to have a judge determine he was immune from prosecution in the Martin shooting under “Stand Your Ground,” which says people can use deadly force rather than flee a situation where they feel their lives are in danger. After his acquittal, Zimmerman can rely on getting that immunity in a civil case, Lave said.
        “One of the things that ‘Stand Your Ground’ does, is it says that if you prove by a preponderance of the evidence, which is 51%, that you acted lawfully under ‘Stand Your Ground’ you can’t be prosecuted criminally sued civilly, and he’s just gotten a not guilty verdict,” she said. “And so it’s pretty clear he’s going to win that.”

        An open mind maybe? Sonny Hoskins may have to use a bullhorn to shout folks down this time.

        • Sorry about that, Prof. Hostin. Got your name spelled wrong:

          CORRECTION: Asunción Cummings “Sunny” Hostin

          Here she is (was) in action. Please excuse the crude titling of this YouTube after-trial excerpt, “Sunny Hostin gets her Ass handed to her on CNN’s AC360”

          Good luck on Tuesday in Berkeley, “Sunny” . . . NOT!

          • hella funny, and yeah I checked out Lave previous writing on the Zimmerman case. This should be a high powered discussion. The group sponsoring the debate is Blacks in Public Policy, graduate student at Goldman School of PP, some will be enrolled in both law and public policy.

            I am most interested in seeing how our straight shooter Andrew Branca is treated. He did such an excellent job on Pacific Radio a few months after the acquittal against 3 liberal academics.
            Hostin will be the light weight in the debate. There will be other black law professors participating in the discussion.

            It would be cool if SF based attorney Michael Mortimer, the blogger who coined the moniker “the Scheme Team”, was able to attend.

            • Dagnabbit, I all but forgot about Michael Mortimer there in SF. He has a style – at least in his writing – that is direct and to the point. He also knows what he’s talking about, and I hope that somehow he’ll be there. He was once a regular @ http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/ but not sure about now in 2014.

              “Hostin will be the light weight in the debate.”
              Judging by her past performances, I’d say you are 100% correct. In fact, when reading over the CV’s of the other participants, it seems dear “Sunny” would be better served by calling in sick.

              If you find out there’s live coverage, please let us know. I’d say KPFA 94.1 FM, but they may not even be on the air in 2 or 3 days – good ol’ Havana Radio!

              Best regards to you and your family, Cassandra.

              • Andrew Branca carried the debate and won. read through his twitter today
                https://twitter.com/LawSelfDefense
                to catch a flavor of the debate including the welshing on a $100 wager between Andrew and Sunny Hostin. Sunny was horrible, she relied on reciting quotes from Justice Sotomayer on why race matters in her dissent on Michigan affirmative action case. I was appalled at how little law students knew about SYG in their own state of CA. There was the typical knee jerk vilification of George as the ultimate racist out to kill an innocent black boy.

                There will be a video available in about a week which I will post here rather than challenge myself to remember what was not memorable. I was very disappointed in both Roth and Lave, both repeated the false narrative that GZ was a stalker and aggressor, both believed passionately in the dubious notion of implicit bias. Implicit bias was the basis of Sunny’s argument, and to think she was once state’s prosecutor.

                The group of ideologues who voted against the premise that SYG should not be changed did not budge, it was the group of undecideds influenced by Branca and Roth argument who determined the winner.

  6. I also posted this to the Kendrick Johnson thread https://annettekblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/kendrick-johnson/

    VERY INFORMATIONAL!!! Update from http://www.re-newsit.com/2014/04/kendrick-johnson-devil-went-down-to.html

    WHY KJ MOM WAS REALLY AT THE SCHOOL THE MORNING OF JAN 11,2013

    Re-Newsit: All of the above would naturally have seen KJ’s body, it was their job to be there. The other students were not invited into the gym for a viewing…they had discovered his body. As far as Jackie arriving early to look for her missing son…this is not why Jackie went to the school that morning…or at least it was not the only reason.

    Jackie and Kenyetta, with a small boy in tow, arrived at the high school at approximately 8:45 on January 11, 2013, to ask about Kenyetta’s latest High School graduation scores. The counselor, Dana Hutchinson, gave Kenyetta and Jackie the scores and information Kenyetta needed in order to pass the test.

    From a written and signed statement by a school guidance counselor, Dana Hutchinson [13-01-1520] dated January 11, 2013, can be found in the case file:

    “I left them (Mrs. J, Kenyetta and boy) in my office and went to Mrs. Gaston’s classroom to get some study materials for Kenyetta. -10 minutes later approx. I went back to my office and explained all of the paperwork Mrs. Gason gave me to Kenyetta and Mrs. J. -Kenyetta got up and walked out of my office. -Mrs. Johnson asked me if report cards went out on Thursday and if I would print Kendrick’s for her. -She then said he did not come home that night. I printed the report card and gave it to her. -She asked me if he was listed as a Junior yet and I told her no. He would need to pass all of his classes this semester to reach Jr. status. -I told her I would check Infinite Campus to see if he was in school on Thursday. -I pulled his attendance up for Thursday, and I told her he was marked absent for 4th block.

    The counselor then proceeded to call in a student and several of KJ’s teachers to confirm which classes he had been present in on Thursday, the 10th. All said he was present except his 4th block instructor; he told Mrs. Johnson KJ had not attended his 4th block weight training class. Mrs. Hutchinson then called a Deputy Adams and told him KJ had not come home the night before.

    Dana Hutchinson’s statement cont.:
    “Mrs. Johnson got a text from someone, or a call and asked me if I knewthere was an ambulance and fie trucks on campus. I did not know, no one had said anything to me.”

    The statement goes on to explain how Jackie Johnson asked for several students to be called out of class in order that she might ask them if they’d seen KJ. The counselor called in several students, the first being the young man that was assaulted later the next day by Jackie’s relatives, including Kenyetta Johnson. The young man was asked if he had been to the ball game the night before…he said he had not. The counselor asked him if he wanted to tell this to Mrs. Johnson and he said “no”. The counselor relayed to Jackie that the young man had not been to the game. Other students were asked if they’d seen Kendrick since 3rd block on Thursday and all said they had not seen him.

    While waiting for one of the students the counselor was called out by the school social worker and into another office. The social worker told Mrs. Hutchinson and the other counselors that a body had been found in the gym, but the Sheriff had not confirmed. Dana, in her statement, said that she and the other counselors did not see the need in telling anyone until the administrator confirmed the information. After speaking to the last student about Kendrick, Jackie asked why the school was on lock-down and said she needed someone to come and get the little boy and that person could not get back on campus. Mrs. Hutchinson said she would see what she could do. Jackie left the office with Mrs. Hutchinson and said she would go outside and meet the person to pick up the little boy.

    This was at 10:41, according to the affidavit. My question is, where did Kenyetta go when she left the office in a huff (my words and reading between the lines)

    • Thanks Nettles…. ❤

      One of the few cases I am trying to follow…. I am a bit bogged down in the Pistorius trial, so can easily miss snippets like this

      • I agree Mimi…. I was expecting it too.

        I thought Strolla did a great job (considering he had limited resources), but there is certainly a need to present evidence a bit more forcefully this time. The next defense team need time to organize I think.
        Just one thing that sprigs to mind…..
        The bullet trajectories (IMO) prove that the back door of the youth’s car was open when Dunn fired. A few photos could have shown that clearly. We saw dowels in place with back door closed, but not with it open, Some sort of photo-shop effort at least could have been presented, but better still.. more overhead photos. with dowels showing trajectories with back door open.

  7. WOW.. HE DIED FROM STRIKING HIS HEAD ON THE PAVEMENT!!

    Brother-in-law of Britain’s Prince Charles dies after fall in New York
    Posted by BNO News on April 23, 2014 in United States

    NEW YORK CITY (BNO NEWS) — Mark Shand, the brother-in-law of Britain’s Prince Charles, died in New York City on early Wednesday after suffering a serious head injury in a fall at a Manhattan hotel, local police and the prince’s official residence confirmed. He was 62 years old.

    The accident happened on early Wednesday morning after Shand, accompanied by an unidentified woman, entered the luxury Gramercy Park Hotel in Manhattan at 12:57 a.m. local time and sat at a booth in the Rose Bar. He later went outside to smoke a cigarette at approximately 2:40 a.m., said Lt. John Grimpel of the New York City Police Department.

    “At approximately 0240 hours, Mark Shand attempted to re-enter the hotel through the revolving doors,” Grimpel explained. “Mark Shand unexpectedly fell backwards, striking his head on the pavement. The incident was also captured on the hotel’s video surveillance system.”

    Grimpel said 911 was called at about 2:50 a.m. and Shand was rushed to Bellevue Hospital, where he was pronounced dead by doctor Spiros Franjof at 11:25 a.m.

    http://www.bnowire.com/2014/04/23/brother-in-law-of-britains-prince-charles-dies-after-fall-in-new-york/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=brother-in-law-of-britains-prince-charles-dies-after-fall-in-new-york

  8. OMG!! They are going ALL OUT! Kid didn’t have guidance in Life, but I see and UNDERSTAND More and MORE what “JOB WELL DONE” means!!! ROFL Both KJ parents/golddiggers and the Mar-Ins trashcan passing parents, BOTH want their child remembered along side Emmett TIll! OH MY GOSH!

    Trayvon Martin’s father wants son’s death to renew civil rights movement

    Originally published: April 23, 2014 8:21 PM
    Updated: April 23, 2014 9:51 PM

    Tracy Martin wants his son, Trayvon, to be remembered as this century’s Emmett Till, and have his death reawaken the nation’s lagging civil rights movement.

    “We want him to be known as that child of central Florida who galvanized the country,” said Martin, who was a guest speaker at Nassau Community College on Wednesday.

    “We would like to see his name in the history books of modern days, taking his place beside Emmett Till [though] Emmett Till has a legacy I don’t think any African-American child will surpass.” …………

    <>

    Martin counseled caution about using social media. Defense attorneys dredged up unflattering material from his son’s Twitter account, he said.

    http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/trayvon-martin-s-father-wants-son-s-death-to-renew-civil-rights-movement-1.7807409

    • Under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, George Zimmerman was found not guilty of second-degree murder.

      Really?

      • The Zimmerman trial, the garbage continually dredged up by the BGI, the lies told, and distortion of facts believed by the gullible = an eye opening experience for many – me included! I agree Nettles, thank goodness people are beginning to see what’s happening and speaking up with the truth.

        • It took a while. I guess time is needed to get people out of the emotional state the lies took them to.

          Looking at the facts of the Zimmerman case devoid of emotions leaves no doubt George acted in self defense. As such, the jury verdict was correct.

          The state didn’t even come close to proving murder and should never have brought a charge in the first place. That is truly were the American people were let down.

              • It has always been that way. When the facts and the truth are not interesting enough to reporters, they add their own sordid details.. sometimes enough to change the entire story and often at someone else’s expense.

                Print media has been that way since the Spanish American War when Hearst mastered yellow journalism.. common tactics of the New York City newspaper wars to sell more papers.

                Thankfully, we have search engines today.

                • Yes, but as we have seen some don’t know how to use them. And sadly so many stories are just reposting of original and author give credit. So many untruths get spread from one story. (as we have seen) But yes thankfully we do have the option of search engines! Hope your doing well!

    • “Martin counseled caution about using social media. Defense attorneys dredged up unflattering material from his son’s Twitter account, he said.” Tracy Martin (2014)

      “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.” Martin Luther King, Jr. (1963)

  9. Stupid ass people. This person write that the FEDS are looking in to MD case and was on the news tonight. Well I PRAY STUPID LEATHERHEAD RUNS WITH IT, BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHAT WAS ON THE NEWS.

    At Leatherheads:
    Trisha0620 says:
    April 24, 2014 at 5:20 pm
    Im down here in Jacksonville the feds are here looking into this case, its was on the 5:30 news tonight, they re inacted the crime, and they said there is no way Dunn was in his car when he fired those shots, they also said Davis was not getting out of the car either, they said the kill shot a long with the other shots happened with Dunn out of the car down on one knee, they are also ticked off they there was no reinacted of the crime period,

    NOW HERE IS THE LINK TO THE NEWS REPORT!!!! ONE LITTLE IMPORTANT WORD MISSING FROM TRISHA0620… FORMER…. CHANGES WHOLE CONTEXT!

    “Former FBI and weapons experts Dale Carson and Brian Kensel put Michael Dunn’s testimony to the test.”
    http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/Action-News-Recreates-Michael-Dunn-Shooting/HzVCHASVZE2G-3X1ftAXqg.cspx

    • Thanks Mimi ❤

      I watched the recreation video… you don't see every detail and I do not agree with the conclusions.

      Apart from anything else… it does not "make sense" that the youths were "fleeing" before ANY shots were fired. It makes even LESS sense that Davis was lying along the car seat BEFORE any shots fired. The "recreation" contends that the Durango had already backed out and was behind Dunn's car.

      No doubt The True Gossip Forum mob will go along with this. However, they should bear in mind that it is not only contrary to what Dunn says, but contrary to the testimony of all three car occupants.

      This "re-enactment" has about as much credibility as a LIMPapa Video Mash.

      It needs more "Cow Bell"… maybe a Mannequin analogue of Davis with precision DRILLED bullet holes?

    • two funnies:

      As my husband I walked through hallways of Boalt Law School towards the lecture hall I explained to him the backgrounds of the debaters. A woman in front of us turned her head sharply checking me out when she overheard me saying ” Sunny Hostin would be the lightweight ” She turned out to be Lave-Rice, Sunny’s teammate.

      The voice from the audience during the wager was my husband, he reacted to Andrew’s bet with “Double It”.

    • I noticed that they begin with the assumption that the Florida version of the law is flawed. Why Florida? And how is it flawed? Have they no sense of objectivity at all? These students are attending a distinguished Ca university, and they don’t even attempt to hide their racial bias. More Jameson, please!

    • …so Lave-Rice’s argument is that when being robbed at gunpoint, we are to presume the person robbing us is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?!

      It is not our place, but rather the place of legislatures and judges, to decide whether we were being robbed or not.

      Regular citizens can’t be trusted to decide for themselves that they are in fact being robbed at gunpoint… should not be allowed to presume or be concerned that they might actually be shot and take measures to prevent their own death or injury?!

      Only little old ladies in wheelchairs should be allowed to defend themselves, all others should have a duty to retreat.

      Ugh.

    • Just finished listening to the whole interview… most folks here will already know most of what was discussed but there were a few new bits of info:

      1) Someone drove by and shot out the windows of the police car that was parked at the RTL.

      2) Tracy Martin went to Johnathan Good’s house the day after the shooting.

      * here’s the URL to purchase his book at Amazon if anyone’s interested:

      http://www.amazon.com/Reluctant-Witness-Between-Trayvon-Zimmerman-ebook/dp/B00JUDSWGC/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398620130&sr=1-2&keywords=the+reluctant+witness

      • “Tracy Martin went to Johnathan Good’s house the day after the shooting.”

        Do we know why he went and what was discussed…. or if they also later talked?

        • At approx. 1:30pm on Feb. 27th, Keith Landry of Foxs 35 News did a report about the shooting the prior night.

          At 13 seconds into this video, you can see Tracy and Brandy walking North on the Sidewalk up towards to crime scene.

          Mr. Landry interviews John from behind a closed door. What we learned from John’s book was Tracy was the first person at his door asking what happened. So Keith Landry was the second.

          • Nettles… have you read John’s book?

            Does he expand much on Tracy’s visiting the witnesses?

            All else aside, it gives me a new appreciation and understanding for why Good was so apprehensive when the reporter subsequently came to his door.

            It would be absolutely unnerving and intimidating to have the gang-tatted father of the man you saw beating up the Neighborhood Watchman the night before showing up at your door.

            And why does the reporter in the video act like he doesn’t know who Tracy and Brandy are… the gist of his even being out there seems to be that they had called the station.

            • “And why does the reporter in the video act like he doesn’t know who Tracy and Brandy are… ”

              I’m going to take a wild guess here and say it was because he didn’t know who they were at the time.

              Stations that cover local news tend to cover stuff like shootings (if it’s not a big market like Chicago, New York, or LA where there are so many they have to be out of the ordinary to get noticed).

              In Sanford just being a shooting and resultant fatality is still unusual enough for them to do a short piece on it the next day on the 6 and the 11.

      • OK, found it and listened to some, same old Bullshit, disinformation about SYG, disinformation from the black co-author about the Roderick Scott case, disinformation about George activities with NW.

        • Ditto… the co-author James LeGrand and the BKS hosts are repeating the same tired “he was told not to pursue but did it anyway” misinformation

          Even in the UC Berkeley debate above, Lave-Rice and Hostin are still claiming that ‘it’s a fact’ and ‘undisputed’ that GZ was told to stay in his car

          Why has this lie become so entrenched in the false narrative when it can be so easily disproven ???

    • Do those at CTH still believe the original video of GZ at the police station was leaked to ABC? It wasn’t. The security cameras use a proprietary video format and it’s not readily converted to something that can be played outside the system. So ABC just recorded it playing on the station’s system so they could get it aired faster.

  10. I am asking for prayers for so many in my state of Arkansas. There are other states too that were affected by tornados yesterday. I have many friends who lost homes and family members of friends that lost family members. My family is safe and we were not in the immediate areas, but it is a small world. Praying for all. My heart is heavy… Every area has their natural disaster type things, these are ours in Arkansas, not just in springtime… 😦

      • Thank you! We are safe, thankfully we were far from the damaged area. But know people who live in some areas. One area that got hit Vilonia, that poor town was hit badly 3 yrs and 1 week ago. A new school $12mil was scheduled to open in the fall (from news reports) was demolished. So sad and scary.

        • Hearing a “train approaching” is terrifying. I went though one of these in the seventies while home alone with my young daughter and dog. Extensive roof damage but no one was hurt.

          • It is an awful feeling for sure. My heart is hurting for fact of knowing couple that lost lives… not personally but friends and family’s friends. Mother Natures wrath.. and the thing about tornados at least around this state, there are “tornado alleys” and this took same path as did 3 yrs and 1 week ago for some people. Again thankful we weren’t close, but close enough. Other states got hit last night.. Praying..

  11. arkansasmimi I am so glad you posted you are o.k. , I told my husband I had to check on you after I watched the news and saw what happened in your state.

    • Yes as horrible as it sounds, I do agree with the death penalty.

      • Karma?? She suffered needlessly. Don’t want to the the TIME, don’t do the CRIME. And sadly, the family of the convict, will prob try to sue the state. If so, where is justice for the young lady?

        • Sadly, Jordan, sometimes we don’t really know people as we think. If someone does the kind of thing that merits death penalty, well there is a lot of judicial time and DNA has advanced so much. This person raped, shot and watched her die as she was buried alive, by news reports. SO no I don’t feel any anguish for him.

          • I think I could debate and “win” both sides of the death penalty. Over the years, having supported BOTH sides at different times, I have formed some conclusions.. too many for a single post. The one I find most fitting for those who say it is a deterrent to future crime is………

            IF executions were carried out in public view and shown on the 6 o’clock news at dinner time so the children can watch, those who are for it MIGHT have an argument. HOW can it be a deterrent under the circumstances it is carried out today?

            I am making this point ONLY for those who have that position.

            For those who take the “eye for an eye,” position, obviously there is no argument unless you want to convince those people that “an eye for an eye” is barbaric.

            It is sobering that so many innocent men and women have landed on death row, and have later been totally exonerated. It is shocking and inexcusable that some have been executed.

            This subject would require its own thread if all arguments are to be aired.

            • Totally agree. I can see both sides. As with the WM3, there was much about that case that showed they were wrongly accused. What is good, tho is that the judicial system goes on for many many years on people convicted to death. I still believe in the Death Penalty. It is awful, but so are the crimes that put people there. JMHO

              • What angers me is that most, if not all, wrongful convictions could have been prevented. We have serious flaws in our judicial system that can easily be corrected and should require no further argument. Do a search for what I wrote: “flaws in our judicial system that can easily be corrected.” It is well worth reading some of these articles. I started doing that during George’s trial.

                If we never punish malicious prosecution, it will never end. When someone is sentenced to death by a prosecution team that willfully withholds evidence, creates false evidence or lies about the facts of the case.. then, blood is on their hands. If this is later revealed, then those who are responsible for the conviction then they should face the identical punishment.

                If the prosecution faces that kind of punishment, then they are less likely to try to get away with their deplorable schemes.

                That whole thing about Brady disclosure never made sense to me

                (You can find my reasoning in Scripture, mimi, but it should be common sense to us.)

                • I see your reasoning in both, Jordan. And agree too. In this day and times, there are too many things that should be in place to keep wrongful from happening. But as you stated, if the Pros isn’t held to the highest what is it all worth?

            • Other guy Warner is convicted of raping and killing an 11-month-old child in 1997. That IIRC is the 2nd Execution that was to go on tonight and was stayed.

              • mimi.. I am not minimizing the cruelty of either of these crimes. They were both despicable and horrid.

                However, I can clearly see how emotions rule the day. No “right thinking” person would have much compassion for either of these guys but I do think that emotions have played a huge role in our decisions about the death penalty. Making decisions in an attempt to appease someone’s emotional state is not a good idea, and, no doubt, has resulted in many wrongful convictions. The pressure on LE to at least make an arrest is immense and their decisions are sometimes premature. However, once they have someone in custody, their focus changes to convicting that person, not look for more suspects even if they deny it.

                I have read many stories about how people felt after the executions. I cannot see how the executions helped them. I have not read of any cases in which the thirst for revenge was totally satisfied.

                It pains me to imagine someone harboring these revengeful feelings for ten, twenty, years, or more. During all of that time, the criminal is unintentionally continuing to punish the victims friends and family by occupying their minds RENT FREE….. so the victims only make things worse for themselves.

                • I could never serve on a DP case. EVER. I would doubt my self too much afterwards. Having said that, I can see yes the emotional aspect too. I know this stuff and agree. I also stand by my belief. Sadly if we lived in a perfect world we wouldn’t be talking about this. . Just because I believe in the DP, does not mean I agree in every case. I believe in the punishment for the crime.

                  And Revenge is just that allowing others to occupy their minds and thoughts and lives, rent free. But I pray I never am in that position. I personally know someone who sister was murdered. Her killer got life, and the dude with him, they went on to kill someone else and he is on DP. Lots could say but not gonna put it out there for the haters… but so much bs. I also know of a mother friend of friend kinda thing. I didn’t know it til guy was executed (not here but another state and was on tv), her son had killed a LEO while he had escaped from Prison. I always have felt sorry for that Mother as well as the LEO family. Can not nor wish not to know how they feel.

                  • My sister served on a death penalty case in SC. She was a well known and respected school teacher at the time, highly visible. The defendant was a black teenager. The evidence overwhelming supported guilt plus he confessed. He was convicted on their first vote….12-0. They all agreed he could have been a good citizen but drugs intervened. His parents had done nothing insofar as raising him.

                    Even so, she said sentencing him to death was one of the toughest things she has ever done. The jurors were deeply concerned for their safety but nothing drastic happened.

    • I’m thinking it’s someone else who was being humorous and knows full well that it’s actually ADHD, although there’s no guarantee that the avatar is a photo of the person who wrote that tweet.

  12. Wanna know why people want guns and this thought will never go away? Cause we have these special kind of slime balls that force the National Guard to protect these devastated peoples belongings after a storm comes and scatters all of it across town. Unbelievable!!!!! Hell awaits these peoples arrival.

    • IF ONLY MANY OF THE “CELEBS” HAD DONE WHAT HE WISHES… THINK WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD IT WOULD BE….

  13. When the party is over a wedding dress is often stashed in a closet or under the bed to be forgotten. Some dresses though, are being transformed into angel gowns for babies who never make it home from the hospital. It’s a touching story that we will have more on tonight. In the meantime, you can learn more here: http://www.nicuhelpinghands.org/ UPDATE: We are pleased to announce that WFAA is holding a WEDDING DRESS DRIVE to help make “Angel Gowns” for NICU Helping Hands. You can drop off gowns at: WFAA-TV 606 Young St. Dallas, TX 75202 Monday March 24 through Thursday March 27 10am – 4pm If you prefer to ship your dress, NICU Helping Hands 301 Commerce Street, Suite 3200 Fort Worth, Texas 76102 For more information, including volunteering to sew: http://www.nicuhelpinghands.org/lend-a-helping-hand/angel-gowns/ Gowns do NOT have to by dry-cleaned.

    In the meantime, you can learn more here: http://www.nicuhelpinghands.org/

    UPDATE: We are pleased to announce that WFAA is holding a WEDDING DRESS DRIVE to help make “Angel Gowns” for NICU Helping Hands.

    You can drop off gowns at:
    WFAA-TV
    606 Young St.
    Dallas, TX 75202
    Monday March 24 through Thursday March 27
    10am – 4pm

    If you prefer to ship your dress,
    NICU Helping Hands
    301 Commerce Street, Suite 3200
    Fort Worth, Texas 76102

    For more information, including volunteering to sew:
    http://www.nicuhelpinghands.org/lend-a-helping-hand/angel-gowns/

    Gowns do NOT have to by dry-cleaned.

      • Those articles give an idea of the dimension of the issues tied to the Brady disclosure rule and the differing interpretations of the obligations rendered to it by prosecutors and defense counsel.

        Unfortunately, some aspects of litigation are reduced to the “gaming” of the legal rules by either prosecutors or defense counsel, or both, in any court encounter.

        Nowhere is this more enticing than in the area of “discovery”. Prosecutors and defense counsel can look at the same piece of evidence and come to opposite conclusions as to its relevance to their own case or the opponent’s case.

        In the Zimmerman case, there was a goodly amount of this posturing by both the prosecution and defense, although the prosecutors were far more “guilty” of it, owing to the paucity of evidence backing their claims.

        • According to some of the articles and blogs I have read, the State never did turn over all of the evidence in the case. For Nelson to delay a sanctions hearing was criminal. Bernie should have been arrested when he was caught lying and hauled off to jail. When a prosecutor lies, ALL credibility vanishes.

          What kind of legal system allows the prosecution to get away with these things and keep on going as if nothing happened? Well, it is NOT the best system in the world.

          —————————————-

          As to the U.S. legal system specifically, both the Fraser Institute and the World Bank contend that it has declined significantly since 2000. The World Justice Project’s Rule of Law Index for 2012–2013 ranks the U.S. 26th out of 97 countries on effectiveness of the criminal justice system, 25th on fundamental rights, and 22nd on access to civil justice.

          According to Ferguson, “Today only lawyers think the United States has the world’s best legal system. Everyone else knows it has become a nightmare of impossibly complicated statutes (example: Dodd-Frank), open-ended liability (tort costs are the highest in the industrialized world relative to GDP), and eye-watering billable hours.”

          Time for some remedial action before the great degeneration becomes irreversible?

          • Just as our body politic is increasingly divided between emphasis on the individual vs. emphasis on the government, so the legal profession is equally split between strict constructionists and liberal interpreters building on precedent.

            Add to that that human fallibility in the application and prosecution of the law and every court case can have a differing outcome depending on the judge, the jurisdiction, the make-up of the jury, the competence of counsel, the financial wherewithal of the defendant, the public narrative and public pressure, etc.etc.

            The erosion in the application of the rule of law that we are witnessing is not unique to the United States, but is endemic in all legal systems.

            There does not seem to be any simple cure.

            • Thanks for your perspective. However, I do believe that some of these things can be changed. It did not take us very long to pass our version of the SYG law. In 2005, the vote was almost unanimous. The law passed 39-0 in the Senate and 94-20 in the House. So both parties were on the same page, including those who spoke against it during the Zimmerman fiasco. i guess they forgot how they had voted or never read the bill. LOL. Frederica Wilson
              Wilson voted for it before she was against it. She was a state senator at the time.

              We are addressing an expansion of the law now. My point is that changes are not as difficult as some might think.

              If both parties could agree about making a change in the judicial process during the discussion/debate process, it is usually a cinch to pass.

              The dissenters are almost always the lawyers, not the legislators.

  14. Jordan, ROFLMBO! I read this and got so tickled! Made me think of our conversation (sorta) giggle!

    Lawyers should never ask a Georgia grandma a question if they aren’t prepared for the answer.

    In a trial, a Southern small-town prosecuting attorney called his first witness, a grandmotherly, elderly woman to the stand. He approached her and asked, ‘Mrs. Jones, do you know me?’ She responded, ‘Why, yes, I do know you, Mr. Williams. I’ve known you since you were a boy, and frankly, you’ve been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on your wife, and you manipulate people and talk about them behind their backs. You think you’re a big shot when you haven’t the brains to realize you’ll never amount to anything more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you.’

    The lawyer was stunned. Not knowing what else to do, he pointed across the room and asked, ‘Mrs. Jones, do you know the defense attorney?’

    She again replied, ‘Why yes, I do. I’ve known Mr. Bradley since he was a
    youngster, too. He’s lazy, bigoted, and he has a drinking problem. He can’t build a normal relationship with anyone, and his law practice is one of the worst in the entire state. Not to mention he cheated on his wife with three different women. One of them was your wife. Yes, I know him.’

    The defense attorney nearly died.

    The judge asked both counselors to approach the bench and, in a very quiet voice, said,

    ‘If either of you idiots asks her if she knows me, I’ll send you both to the electric chair.

    • AINT NO BODY GOT TIME FOR THAT!! ~

      The Moonlight Bunny Ranch is arguably the most famous brothel in the United States and their owner Dennis Hof took his own stance against Donald Sterling.

      The Moonlight Bunny Ranch has issued a lifetime ban to Mr. Sterling effective immediately.

      Here’s what Dennis Hof had to say about the situation:
      “A lot of NBA players come here to party,” Hof told The Huffington Post. “Out of respect to them, we have banned Sterling from coming here.”

      “I can tell you this: Johnny Buss, one of the owners of the Los Angeles Lakers, and I have had a dual birthday party at the Bunny Ranch for the last 18 years, so a lot of NBA people have been here,” he said.

      Hof goes on to explain how Sterling’s words affected women at the Ranch:

      “At any given time, 20 to 23 percent of the prostitutes here are African-American,” Hof said. “And they’re smoking hot. Some of them were crying this morning so we’re doing this for them as well. We don’t need racists or bigots at the Bunny Ranch.”

      Read more at http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2014/04/bunny-ranch-brothel-bans-donald-sterling-for-life/#pOKIPbkIV12WqjhT.99

      • from Huf Post weird news.. rest of article… SMH http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/30/donald-sterling-banned-bunny-ranch_n_5235320.html

        Sterling isn’t the first high-profile person forbidden to partake in Hof’s garden of earthly delights.

        “We banned the ‘Duck Dynasty’ guys. Those guys are the biggest homophobic assholes and they make their living killing animals,” Hof said. “We’ve also banned Michael Vick. We don’t want him here. I couldn’t guarantee his safety from the girls. They love animals.”

          • That dude is a waste of oxygen. ROFL DD makes their living off of killing animals! Right there proves doesn’t know what he is talking about. Guy making $ off of selling women’s bodies…such a wholesome man right there… Vomit in my mouth!

  15. Jordan.. just found this article on Clayton Lockett, the guy that was executed in OK..

    Execute murderer, jury says
    PERRY — A jury has recommended the death penalty for
    Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 12:00 am
    RALPH W. MARLER

    Clayton D. Lockett, convicted last week in the June 1999

    murder of an 18-year-old woman whose body was found in a

    county road ditch near Tonkawa.

    Lockett, 25, was one of three men arrested June 7, 1999,

    in the death of Stephanie Michelle Neiman. Cases are

    pending against co-defendants Alfonzo LaRon Veasey Lockett,

    19, of Ponca City and Shawn C. Mathis, 27, of Enid.

    The jury also recommended that Lockett serve 2,285 years

    in prison on 18 counts of kidnapping, rape, sodomy and

    robbery of three other victims, one an 18-year-old

    girlfriend of Neiman’s.

    District Judge D.W. Boyd set formal sentencing for Oct.

    27. The jury of seven women and five men convicted

    Lockett on Aug. 23 and deliberated late Monday over his

    punishment.

    Neiman’s parents read the jury a victim impact statement

    that said, “We ask this jury to sentence him to death.”

    Neiman was their only child, the parents said, who had

    graduated two weeks earlier from Perry High School and was

    planning to enroll at Tonkawa’s Northern Oklahoma College

    that fall.

    “She thought she was shy, but she had lots of friends,”

    the parents said. And their daughter would stand up for her

    rights, “no matter what.”

    Testimony indicated that Neiman refused to give Lockett

    the keys to her pickup truck or promise that she would not

    go to police after her assailants beat and assaulted her.

    Bobby Lee Bornt, one of those kidnapped, said Lockett

    took Neiman to a shallow grave that one of the

    co-defendants dug. Bornt said he saw a flash from a shotgun

    that Lockett carried, and heard Neiman scream.

    Bornt testified that Lockett came back to the road where

    the co-defendants were holding Bornt and another female and

    told them the shotgun was jammed. Lockett found a file in

    Bornt’s truck and fixed the shotgun, and then returned to

    Neiman, who was groaning. Bornt said he saw a second flash

    of gunfire, and then heard no more groaning.

    Bornt and his then 9-month-old son and the other girl

    were released after promising they would not go to police.

    Defense attorney Gary James fought the death penalty for

    Lockett by calling witnesses who told of Lockett’s abused

    childhood.

    An aunt and uncle said Lockett was abandoned by his

    mother and abused by his father, who they said also

    encouraged Lockett into a life of crime and abuse of

    women.

    A clinical social worker was allowed to testify that

    such abuse — which in Lockett’s life included homosexual

    rape — causes children to suppress rage and usually become

    abusers themselves.

    District Attorney Mark Gibson and assistant prosecutor

    Brian Surber produced a box of weapons that Lockett

    fashioned from metal window frames, razors, screws and

    other items while he was in the Noble County Jail.

    Undersheriff Ray Henry and deputies said more than 15

    different weapons were found in Lockett’s possession or

    turned over by Lockett voluntarily.

    Henry also said a random screening of mail to and from

    Lockett produced several letters in which Lockett

    threatened his co-defendants or Bornt.

    In another letter, Lockett allegedly wrote: “I did shoot

    that bitch.”

    • “Rebutting the network’s claims about how Zimmerman is a public figure of some sort, Beasley and Didier insist that NBC cannot argue that Zimmerman was a “public figure for the purposes of the controversy they created.””

      ^ THIS ^

      …and the other catch-22 that NBC et al are relying on is that they were so successful at making GZ a public pariah through their biased and manipulated reporting that he doesn’t stand a chance of prevailing against them in a jury trial.

  16. We all knew this might happen. One thing is for sure: He is definitely a public figure now and does his best to make sure he remains one.

  17. Nettles: For the benefit of those of us who do not use Twitter, could we confine the twitter discussions to one thread.. maybe even one by that name. Make it PW protected if you need to do that. There’s a lot of drama, name calling and hate in those tweets, so I try to breeze over them and look for things that are worth reading.

    Would also like to hear what others think about threads on new topics. There is plenty to discuss. I would make suggestions but I don’t know what direction you want to take.

    Let’s polish our image to be something other than advocates for George Zimmerman. We did our part in seeking truth and justice for him. George is gone and nothing we say on this blog is likely to help him.

    Personally, I wish there was not another word spoken or written about him or that case UNLESS it helps race relations. So far, that has not happened even after all of the facts have been revealed as well, exposing the countless media lies.

    The BGI and all of its players will use Trayvon, George and the case itself to perpetuate THEIR hatred of whitey and the rest of their garbage. Our government supports them as witnessed by keeping additional charges hanging over his head. Eric Holder is personally terrorizing George.

    I cringe every time I see another article. We have a great group of people here and we need not be contributors to THEIR cause.

    • Great suggestions Jordan. I’ll make a TwitterLand password protected thread for those who want to keep abreast of the twitter discussions.

      The George Zimmerman case is over and it’s time to move on.

      I’ll continue to post open threads and if a subject catches fire, I’ll create it’s own thread.

      If anyone wants to write a thread post, I’ll be happy to post it for you.

  18. Sunday is MAY 4th…. Star Wars fans… MAY 4TH BE WITH YOU 😉 ( ok I heard on the radio earlier giggling)

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