I had hopes of the truth being told when the George Zimmerman case went to trial. But here we are well over 2 months after the not guilty verdict with a ton of unanswered questions. 😦
I expect more books will be written and perhaps a documentary may be televised but I doubt seriously that we will ever know all of the facts about what happened. It would require a brave soul to expose everything the State of Florida did to maliciously and with malice aforethought, attempt to imprison an innocent man.
So far, NONE, not one, of the participants have even hinted mistakes were made. For these same people to continue to memorialize Trayvon Martin tells me that they have no intention whatsoever of ever acknowledging what they did as being “wrong.’
Permanent onuments were actually built to honor him, long before there was even a trial. They are not coming down. He will forever be a martyr while his parents and others ridicule us and line their pockets with the hard earned money of the poor folks who fell for this scheme.
Unanswered questions, Annette? Does anyone actually have all of the answers?
Even those that do have answers are not likely to talk.
Jordan, I agree with you completely. IMO the biggest problem is the people that continue to memorialize and line their pockets don’t believe what they’re doing is “wrong”. To them they are just taking advantage of a lucrative business venture. No moral qualms and no regrets for the people like George that are trampled in the process or for the lies that are perpetuated.
Consider who is responsible for this mess and what they COULD do stop it.. It is our leadership that has failed us and they did it intentionally. That is what is so tragic. NONE of those who have the power to do so have any intention whatsoever of ever resolving racial division. It is even more about money now than ever. This case just made it easier for future payoffs.
I agree with your comments.
I used to think that documentaries and biographies were all fact. Turns out they’re not. Fiction is often woven in to them to “make it more interesting”. So my guess is, if a documentary is done, is will be based on the scheme team and media narrative.
This is a great topic, Annette, and hopefully will yield lots of good answers instead of even more wild speculation. Perhaps some. among us. have accurate up to date information.
Eric Holder said we’re cowards and don’t want to talk about race. Of course, we do want to, but not the kind of racism he is talking about, and attempts to have an honest conversation will be met with the obligatory cries of “racist!”. The guy who just wrote that book, the one who took Sundance’s work and made a book out of it (can’t remember his name!) – he told a lot of it, but many people won’t buy it because they made their minds up before seeing any evidence. Something that would help, I think, would be for someone to get confirmation of the facts – but that would mean someone asking TM and SF hard questions – and no one is going to do that. In any event, IMO someone in the media (TV or papers) would have to tell the truth, or it will never get in the face of those in our population who don’t want to seek it out.
Thx, Jordan. I have the book, but didn’t feel like firing up the kindle to find his name lol
exactly, Holder is disingenuous, his intention is to keep the “white oppressor” on the hook, not discuss the complications of race, class and power.Holder is just pulling rank, the worse ism yet.
From the last thread – I just don’t see MOM wanting a CNN contract as a conflict of interest. My guess is that he needed a win for the contract. So getting George off and getting a contract were both good outcomes of a lot of hard work. One wasn’t going to prevent the other from happening.
On the other hand, MOM got a lot of internet criticism for not taking on the whole BGI, for “just” wanting to get George off. Cracking the whole BGI system would have taken attention off of those few minutes around the event, diluting the thrust of the defense, and may have led to losing the case. That *would* have been a conflict of interest, IMO.
Strictly my opinion by I have a feeling we will see a whole new round of obstruction in the Ben Kruidbos trial as the scheme team and their coconspirators go to all new levels to prevent the public from seeing the real ugliness which was Trayvon Martin that the State of Florida tried to hide.
Yep Captain, I think your correct on that opinion. Gonna be a good one to watch from a far for sure. To be a fly on the wall in the mean time… WOW lol
I really feel no limit nigga is an appropriate name for Cupcake Fulton for all of her shameless shennanigans to bilk people out of money for her “foundations”
the latest delusions among the extremists:
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To:Captain Long Schlong Silver 2
BREAKING NEWS!!!!! In Jenna’s 911 call you can hear Zimmerman saying Mark. Who is Mark? Zimmerman’s best friend Mark Osterman. More proof that an accomplice was with him. It is at 1:47 of Jenna’s 911 call. Thats the person talking after the gunshot not TM.
Jenna’s 911 call was the biggest piece of evidence in this case.
1. There are atleast two guns shots in the recording. One is 3-4 seconds into Jenna’s call also.
2. Jeremy says he warned me he’s shoot him.
3. At about 1:47 of the 911 call you hear Zimmerman say Mark one of the people with Zimmerman. He is likely the guy in the white T-shirt that witnesses saw.
4. You hear both Martin screaming for his life and even Zimmerman shouting fake helps at certain times.
Most Zimmerman supporters know Zimmerman is guilty which is why most of them make videos editing out and editing in parts of the reenactment at different parts of the dialogue to make themselves look right or just calling people idiots and delusional.
For me to believe Jeremy said being one made it scarier. The person who did that needs to show the parts before where Jeremy said why f shoot him with the same effects the pitch changing and slowing down for me to believe him. Because if why f shoot him is different then being one made it scarier is wrong its already more syllables. I can make anybody say anything somewhat close to what they actually said with Protools and Izotope sound software and even more if I dont have to lip sync while all TM supporters have done is raised the volume not add different audio effect changes like GZ supporters.
Is there a translation of that into English anywhere?
who wrote that total garbage? There is no reality in that comment at all !!!
Someone of low intelligence, trying to lead the totally ignorant.
This is the website of the guy (ex NFL player, was special ed in school, family taught him to still work for a future, his recent ancestors also were involved in black civil rights and he knew Rosa Parks and the Kennedys) whose house was trashed by 300 high school kids. He’s gathering evidence and turning it over to the police for prosecution. But he’s also asking people to help him help these 300 turn their lives around. He sounds like a very interesting guy.
He asked for the kids to come help him fix his house. Only 4 kids and their parents showed up. A bunch of other parents threatened to sue him for posting their kids’ photos on the internet (because of course all these idiots took photos and tweeted about their little crime spree). I remember my father telling me when I was young that he’d fight for me if I were innocent in something, but if I ever did something wrong, I’d have to take responsibility, he wouldn’t “fix it” for me. Not too many parents are like that anymore I’m afraid.
If anyone goes to the link above, watch the video down the page made by his eldest daughter. She’s wise for her years – I’d say this ex-NFL guy and his wife did a good job with their kids. I especially like how she says something like, “is this what society has come to, that we no longer care about doing the right thing?”
I read there may be more to this story. The house is in foreclosure and it is believed by some that the students got “set up” by the football player who is looking to raise money now which will get the house out of foreclosure.
There are allegations the house was in a bad state prior to the kids entering it.
regardless of what the owner’s errors are, teens regularly damage property and drink/drug excessively at parties these days. It is gross, unsafe and dysfunctional. At UCB there is very high rates of acquaintance rape while drunk, many incidents happen at frat parties. Normal kids with ethics and a conscience are just as critical of their indulgent, negative peers and frustrated by the lack of positive social options. There is an attitude or entitlement, narcissism and irresponsibility among young people these days. This is not just me the mom talking, my sons and their girlfriends/wife speak more harshly or their peers.
I wonder if that’s what the daughter addressed in the video – she said something about the dad built them a “basketball barn”, and told them to decorate it, so over the years all their visiting friends spraypainted inside of it with their name and the date.
Boy, I hope it’s not a sham.
Carol, this is OT but in case you missed it, I thought you’d be interested. Via Drudge, this very insightful New York Magazine article re: HRC.
I should have known hahaha Nettles beat me to the punch HOURS ago………on the last thread. Man, forget about the “getting up early” to get a jump on her……..ya gotta go without sleep altogether. The gal is a whiz!
But then, that’s not news to anyone. 😉 You go girl
♥
Posted: 6:21 AM
Last Updated: 1 hour and 16 minutes ago
By: Associated Press
TALLAHASSEE, fla. – A small group of protesters upset by the acquittal of George Zimmerman say they’re returning to the state Capitol.
“The group plans to return Monday, repeating their request for Gov. Rick Scott to call a special session and ask legislators to overhaul the state’s self-defense laws.”
Uhh–self-defense has been part of the law since the beginning. This case was classic self-defense and it ain’t goin’ away any time soon. Big waste of time from non-contributing members of society–part of Obama’s 47%’ers.
Must be nice to be independently wealthy and be able to travel and camp out and sing songs and hold hands and protest….. especially when you didn’t even learn the facts about what you’re protesting
Not sure why Charles Blow carries so much influence with Anderson Cooper. But the megaphone is squarely in Mr. Blow’s hand and his opinion of Zimmerman appears to be based on his experiences as a black man. Therefore, his opinions have nothing to do with a man Mr. Blow doesn’t even know. The comment about talking with his son about the pace to walk was insane.
AC360 does not allow comments, they censor content in support of the truth. Blowhard is an apt description, even his NYTimes photo is condescending.
His kids could not survive my hood without their nanny driving them to and fro. Blow is black first and foremost. So many have exposed themselves are racial relativist.
Paranoid Zimmerman Family Thinks Obama Is Tapping Their Phones Because of Trayvon (Video) http://t.co/xaJjEABMyN
He’s tweeting an interview Robert Jr. gave 3 days after the verdict.
Some people are a little slow in their ability to process information… 😀
On April 5th Mr. Crump filed a confidential redacted settlement between the Travyon Foundation and the Home Owners Association (HOA) with the court hearing Zimmerman’s criminal case. A little after midnight on April 6th, Sundance was advising he had insider information that O’Mara has been involved with this settlement. Let’s deconstruct how Sundance arrived at that theory at about 1:05 am on April 6th.
Rumor Deconstructed – Mr. O’Mara was involved in HOA settlement – Rumor Deconstructed
12:59AM – Rick Madigan (who I believe to be Sundance) posts at Diwataman’s blog a shout-out for Jello. He needs a positive reason why O’Mara would be involved in the settlement he can’t think of one. http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/6280/#comment-9126 – worthy to note Rick is not posting at the Treehouse at this time. That starts on the new thread 2 hours later. Rick/Sundance, Sundance/Rick. The new thread is inviting posters back to give an optimist reason on how this could be positive in any way. Rick was doing it 1 hour before Sundance posted the thread!
How likely is it that an insider who has been sitting on this information since November 2012, revealed it to Sundance and he/she watched him rationalize out a few bits of information he had between 12:15am and 12:49 am? Those bits of information were: a) That O’Mara seemed to know in February a settlement was attained and b) Travellers insurance sued to not be party to it and had a limit of $1 million.
4:38 a.m. – Sundance using the name of Rick Madigan posts on Diwataman’s blog inviting commentators that have been banned to come back and let’s all discuss this as a group. http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/6280/#comment-9144 – one sample, he asked more.
People kept pressing for evidence of these allegations, Sundance’s response was it was “insider information” and shouldn’t be questioned. Commentators were banned and others ridiculed for not believing the allegations on blind faith.
What do you think? Did Sundance really have insider information or did he rationalize it with a few bits of information?
I revealed later this day (April 6th), my 2 month suspicion that Rick Madigan was actually Sundance.
Rationalize with a few bits of information, in other words, SD speculates plenty. This is what got me in trouble on their website, I was never rude, I just commented on the indulging in speculations which supposedly conflicted with their stated purpose. The world is full of hypocrites. What makes this blog
so very refreshing is the lack of censorship and hypocrites, renews my faith in people.
O’Mara did an awesome job, I happen to think West is fantastic too, I identify more with his irritation at the dishonest ones. O’Mara is media savvy, which is some way is not necessarily a compliment when you consider the media is in the business of mudslinging and sensationalism, not journalism.
you should be a prosecutor!
Sundance was wrong in those comments. I never took any of that stuff very seriously because it looked like flawed reasoning.
I agree with Cassandra, that O’Mara did an awesome job, as did Don West.
I am only inviting friendly discussion, not starting an argument, but who is to blame for the fiasco at the bond hearing about George’s assets, and in particular, the Pay Pal account? Shellie was charged and sentenced but was it really her fault? Could George have intervened beforehand? What was Mom’s responsibility?
The consequences were severe financially and totally unnecessary. Many of gave us money, in the end, to a bonding company, not George… about $100,000 more or less that can never be recovered. Think about how George could use that now.
I never understood what happened with the continuance, if a request for one was actually filed. Does anyone know why MOM did not pursue that action?
I remember reading the actual first bond agreement, but I searched hi and lo for the new bond agreement without success after SD mentioned that there were some irregularities in it and seemed to imply that it benefited MOM. So, IDK. I did read that the money was returned, which would be extremely unusual, but never saw proof of that. It was on a thread in which SD answered all questions but maybe he made a mistake in saying that.
At the end of the day, someone was responsible for what Lester did and I do not think it was just him or the state.
Now that Shellie’s case has been resolved, we can have a discussion thread about this topic.
Give me a few days to dig for some facts to help get us started in discussing it and I’ll post a thread for this topic.
George/Mark/Shawn/Don – I would appreciate any light you can shed on this. Please post here or email me at nettles@bell.net
If you guys have any appreciation for what the online community tried to help you with, help us now in getting some answers to our questions. Thank you.
Jordan –
I am still somewhat confused.
However, the fact that Shellie took a plea arrangement would seem to clear MOM. Why on earth would she take the rap to protect someone else?
I do not know which is why I invited friendly discussion. Do you really think Shellie intentionally lied, knowing the truth would be revealed in only a matter of days? Everyone in that courtroom knew about the PayPal account, didn’t you? Why would ANYONE try to conceal it?
No one tried to conceal the account. The judge talked about it, the prosecutor talked about it and O’Mara talked about it on April 20th. So that it existed was known by everyone. No one appeared to be too excited about getting to know its balance prior to April 20th.
Shellie acknowledged she knew about it but was coy is giving an estimate to how successful it had been. In her interview with Christi, she said she could rationalize it all she liked, but she knew she was lying when she was questioned about the balance.
Kelly Sims said in a presser after her hearing, that Shellie was not told she’d be testifying about finances at the bond hearing. She hadn’t been prepared for it.
That told me there was no scheme to get her to lie to the court. I think that when the questions came up, she made a split second decision to evade answers given the behavior her and George had been demonstrating. Talking in code, moving it out of his accounts. I’m not even sure her and George planned it. She just thought it best to hide it as long as she could so she deflected to a person who wasn’t readily available.
Given that George and Shellie made this known within a day of GZ getting out of jail, tells me they knew they needed to make it right. Who knows, this could be one of the issues causing their divorce. Her decision to lie put GZ back in jail. Did she do it with his prior approval?
Looking at the questions that O’Mara was asking, there is no way he knew the balance of the account or he wouldn’t have asked her those questions. He thought she was shoring up what their bank records revealed. O’Mara submitted their March 2012 bank statements as proof they were indigent.
Looking at how each party behaved after the bond hearing, I think Shellie made a split decision when asked on the topic. George waited until he got out to find out where exactly the account stood. You may recall that Scott told him one figure that Shellie later told him was made up to make him feel better.
I do believe as George sat there that day, he was confused about how much had come in. He knew there was strong support but Scott and Shellie were telling him 2 different figures.
O’Mara’s comments after suggested that George and Shellie hadn’t been completely honest with him and there is a phone call between Scott and George that confirms they made a conscious decision to keep the balance to themselves for the time being.
I’m sure they didn’t realize how that would affect the bond hearing. They were more concentrated on the indigent hearing and what should be revealed.
While I do think GZ talked to O’Mara about a large balance he tried to transfer but couldn’t, O’Mara told reporters he does not recall GZ saying $37K. He’d have remembered that.
I’ll get working on the thread for all this in the next couple of days.
IDK, I still think Shellie should have been thoroughly prepared in her answers. What attorney does not do that?
If there were any doubts about anything, the hearing should have been postponed. This was hugely important. It decided George’s fate from that point on until the trial. How much money was wasted needlessly? Think about the account of how they lived on the run, even hiding in a trailer in the woods. None of that should have happened if it is true. Unless Shellie is totally stupid and extremely naive, I have a hard time blaming her.
It can’t be both ways. Either she was prepared by being told to lie or she decided to evade on her own.
We are to believe that O’Mara asked her questions that she was told to lie to?
Not.A.Chance.
I hear you but why would she lie?
I’d argue she didn’t lie. She wasn’t as helpful as she could have been.
We still don’t know why they had to take money out of the pay pal account, put it in GZ and then put it in her’s and Dawn’s. If we knew the answer to why they thought they should do that, we may know the answer to why they wanted to hide the fact they were getting this support.
Not even GZ’s dad knew about it. After the hearing was over he took Dawn outside (according to his book) and asked her if there was enough for bond and she said there was. So he became confused when George was asking his parents and grandparents to mortgage everything to pay the full bond so he didn’t have to use a bondsman.
O’Mara said he spent 36 hours trying to talk them out of that strategy and just come up with $15,000 to pay the bondsman. The bondsman helped them out and took only $5K and at the time of the June 1st revocation hearing, $10K was still owing.
Why all that when they had $130K at their disposal?
IDK.. It’s why I asked for more discussion. I will take your word but something does not seem right to me.
Jordan –
“I still think Shellie should have been thoroughly prepared in her answers. What attorney does not do that? –
“Attorney preparation” covers a lot of ground.
MOM might have simply told his client, ” Look, you are going to be asked a bunch of technical questions about the accounts. Just tell the truth.”
If GZ or SZ were keeping something from MOM, they would have to ask him about a possible problem in upcoming testimony. Did MOM ask them, if there was something that they were worried about in upcoming testimony?
As with many aspects of this case, we are not privy to the details that would shed a clear answer. We can only look at what transpired before us and draw some logical conclusions, while acknowledging that a different set of preliminary facts could compel a different conclusion.
I hear you.
I think at this point if anyone considers MOM as a non aggressive advocate the paypal issue will always be an issue about if and why someone lied or not.
For me, I do consider the jailhouse discussions. But I also consider the events prior to that week in why they tried to hide the money. Someone advised them what to do. It was not MOM. If it was MOM the money trail would not been noticed.
I just shake my head at the family members and/or friends of George Zimmerman who got a twisted view of O’Mara.
They actually worked against Mark O’Mara in getting Zimmerman acquitted. Like George didn’t have enough mountains against him, he needed his supporters divided and being asked to not donate.
As far as I know, that only occurred at one site, the treehouse. While they would like to think they were the be all and end all of support, they were not. I talked with lots of people online who fully supported the efforts to get GZ acquitted.
If I was the defendant, I’d have jumped online and said my piece about supporting my lawyer. That he didn’t and the family was luke-warm in their praise and thanks is curious.
It’s not a surprise O’Mara jumped ship, if in fact, he did.
I can’t imagine what O’Mara/West/Truett went through to coral this gang through that trial.
Well, it was only after I said on the Crump gets paid thread at Dmans did Treeper Admins. start publicly saying it was not about GZ. They sure the hell went head first into the barrel, especially with some who were claiming to be family sources. Just as bad as the Scheme Team. This is why I personally always avoided the MSM and color coordination inserted in the case. This case had NOTHING to do with either but fighting it did make it worse IMHO. It was filler. I think we could have used this as an example more on an attack on self defense, political corruption, and more so told the gov. “hey, go ahead, try to take away rights and we will back the lil man.” Instead even supporters were divided.Just because I avoided it does not mean I was blind to it.
Some were just divided on who to go after first. Now, it is happening again. Some I realize now… just are not ready for the fight.
YOU: Some I realize now… just are not ready for the fight.
Which fight should we be ready to fight, Danny? Serious question.
From my position, there are many battles to be fought that do not even involve George, his family, friends and attorneys. This case has “touched” on more issues than any other one that I have ever read about and all of these issues are so controversial so as to make it clear how divided we are as Americans. As long as folks remain so fixed in their views, the fight can never be “won,” although winning is not the correct word. IMO, the best we can hope for are peaceful stalemates.
In retrospect, do you think the State ever really had a chance of convicting George?
While I know that juries are unpredictable, there simply was NO evidence to convict him. The emotional pleas by the state to convict him were simply that, and while they apparently did influence some jurors to try to find a way to convict him, they could NOT do it because no facts supported it.
Maybe either of us could have successfully defended George. LOL.
Now that the case is over, I do find it curious that there actually does appear that O’Mara was not fully endorsed by George and his friends and family. I hardly think the CTH caused that discord.
I think there is a lot more to this than we know, so I will wait to see, as usual, instead of pointing fingers.
JFP said that MOM dragged his feet in getting her family’s property returned to them and West had to intervene. That is significant to me as was his “PAY ME” comment as reported by Matt Gutman on ABC news when MOM was asked for his advice to George. If that is true, then it sounds serious to me. I have searched and cannot find that interview so IDK.
However, isn’t George, in effect, paying him? How much is his CNN contract worth? And what will he earn from a book? This may turn out to be the most lucrative thing ever for him. Right now, he may be more widely known than any other attorney in the US.
If the state had managed to get the “child abuse” instruction the jury may well have picked it as a compromise verdict. West seemed to think they had that planned for some time.
No sensible person would have ever accepted a conviction for such a charge, and it would have been overturned post haste as would any other conviction unless the DCA was fixed.
Jordan,
I do not need retrospect to know the outcome. Because I truly do believe in the justice system and due process.
I do not feel that a client or an attorneys job is to endorse each other either. And you are right, I do not feel the Treehouse caused any discord other then amoungst supporters to tell you the truth. I do feel family/ friend relations were already struggling.
As far as MOM getting paid? Lets be honest… who else would have touched GZ with even a ten ft. pole? SD and I can agree on that. I nor does anyone else have the ability to review the private agreement between client and atty. I will not speculate. It is as sacred as taking communion!
What becomes of MOM or GZ after the fact is due to their own consequense and decisions. I feel it best the parties split.
In the end an attorney is a legal advisor. It is up to a client to chose his/ her atty. and to follow the legal advice.
I do not believe SDs claims that GZ had no control over the money. If that helps you any. We can discuss the legal reasons why, if you would like. Legal funds are not new.
I have not heard anything about proprety not being returned to the family and that West needed to intervene. So I can not comment. At this point I think we have determined JFP is not as close to the case as she had let on.
The only other atty. who thus far has shown they are MORE lucrative is Ben Crump!
I am certain that I read the way the defense fund was set up was unprecedented and it was not at the CTH.
To this day, I still have questions. Have you seen a certified final accounting? I never even saw the terms of the trust… who controlled it, for example.. so it was subject to justified criticism in my opinion.
Somebody put up the extra money necessary for the second bond. It was MOM who arranged that….
I never took Sundance seriously on any of that stuff.
With regard to what Shellie said at the hearing, I have no idea about who told her to say that she did not know how much was in the account. If you look closely at what she was asked, she answered the question that was asked, and she told them to contact her brother in law. Lester was wrong because he did not follow up that question. BDLR deliberately did not follow up on that response. The trap was set when Shellie denied knowing how much was likely to be in the account.
I have not seen any evidence to point the finger at MOM, and no evidence to point the finger at GZ. I could be wrong on that score, but it still seems to me that Shellie made the decision regarding that infromation. She did in fact have some idea about how much was in the account but technically she could not tell BDLR how much was in the account “right now” unless she was using a computer.
@Nettles, good grief. Two points.
#1. You completely overlook the conversations in August/Sept 2012 about the initial HOA lawsuit (Travellers) which we wrote about before the Orlando Sentinel broke their initial story. Actually, it was TCTH sending Stutzman/Weiner an email about their avoiding the Trayvon Family financial interests that led to the Orlando Sentinel writing their story. [*Note* Weiner was pissed off – his pride was severely wounded]
The documents about the initial insurance agency, which were filed in court and became public record, were provided by one of the sources who was directly involved in the discussions. <—- The same person (source) the following year who accurately outlined the O'Mara advice to the HOA to settle which you are writing about. D'oh.
… And yes, in 2012 Mark O'Mara received a copy (to his office) of the exact same filing Crump placed with the court, which showed the certified mailing of the copy to the O'Mara law firm, and later requested redaction to. So was O'Mara telling the truth when he said he had no knowledge of a settlement ?
#2. I'll send you an email (which you can post if you like – matters not to me) of the last correspondence between Rick Madigan and the Treehouse. You are wrong in all of your conclusions and assumptions. Period.
Thanks. One minor point, try not to be so condescending when talking with me or others here. It’s not necessary. Please behave like an adult.
Your D’oh statement was unnecessary.
We’d all love to see Rick’s last email. Thanks!
@Nettles…. “try not to be so condescending”….
That’s RICH !
LOL
♥
Sundance,
#1. Actually, the Scheme Team planted those HOA stories back in March 2012. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-no-hoa-lawsuit-20120324_1_civil-lawsuit-neighborhood-watch-nabj
It was in August 2012 Travelers Casualty and Surety Co. filed a federal lawsuit asking a judge to clarify its liability in the case, but that suit was dropped in November 2012. This is when CTH really started discussing the settlement.
Even if Crump had filed paperwork (which he did not) to the *criminal docket* back in 2012 it still does not prove MOM had ANY hand in any civil negotiations with the pay off. Which IS what is in question here. Not that MOM had knowledge there were ongoing negotiations. You claimed he had a hand in the settlement. Not that he knew they were in the works. Everyone knew by August 2012 the Scheme Team was looking for a pay day. It was public record.
Sundance IF MOM had a copy of the filing why did he have to ask the court for a copy and an unredacted one at that?
Sundance posting that O’Mara did have involvement, with no proof, leaves me wondering if one day we’ll hear about O’Mara suing Sundance.
As I said in my very first public conversations to Sundance on Diwatamans blog back in April, SD is a spec of dust. The guy would not even let me respond on his blog on a thread where he addressed me. That speaks volumes about his ability to be open minded. The admins. thought I was David. Lol. Did not affect me any.
Maybe that is why they banned me. But, it takes a hard head to actually ban someone from responding to thread you wrote WANTING a response!
As I look back at that tgread someone did write a fact vs. opinion on all things MOM related to SDs claimed “facts”. In order to sue SD he would have had to affect MOMs buisness. He was attempting to but failed only because 99% of us know it was not fact but opinion. Here is what someone posted. MOM would never waste his time!
Did Sundance ever reply to it or to challenge the facts contained therein over at CTH?
No.
I did not see that he did on that thread but back then, SD would not have done that anyway. It is only recently that he has ventured outside of the Tree as far as I know.
Thanks, Danny. Are you OpUsSoldiers?
You, too, like SD are an enigma to me. I do NOT mean that in any kind of derogatory manner. The two of you have much more in common than you are likely to admit. I doubt that anyone of us here, know who either of you really are. A bio would help. LOL.
That was an interesting thread at DMan’s. As I was reading it, and other similar threads during that time frame, it became clear that a “certain” group of folks, still active today, were questioning the changes that had occurred at the CTH. That same group not only continues to question SD and the CTH, but also everything else about this case. I was very vocal about sitting on the sidelines until I heard everything, and to a great extent, I remain that way today. I am not from Missouri but SHOW ME. For those who have criticized me for doing that and also for changing my opinions, I can only say that I am a true truth seeker.
Not long ago, I trashed almost all of my case files, which included quite a few things that SD and others had said, so I have no reference points to add to this conversation except to read and make comments based upon my sketchy memory. It is amusing now to see what we all said back then. Many of us were brand new at this blogging business but, boy, I think we caught on quick even if it meant a few “bans” along the way.
No I was not OpUsSoldiers..wish I was . I think I know who it was though…lol. In my early days as I was rounding em up there were family members and friends of mine I gave links and info too. I had posted stuff privetly so this person must bunched together what I was about to do @Dmans. I spoke very indepth with my friends and family about this case. I have family who live in Florida, I once lived there too. and I have many many family who own firearms. My side is also involved in politics. So…. I have a lot of support.
So kind of you to see what SD and I have in common. I do believe his take on certain things did draw me to CTH. I was very involved in Fast and Furious and Bengazi research. Research had led me to TH.
Prior though I hit the political scene many years ago at a school board meeting. After thatI was asked to speak at many, many, luncheons, meetings etc. But I do not do public speaking.
After this I became an education advocate for special education, private and now public K–12 online education. I am more moving towards parents removing their children from traditional public schooling into a homeschooling, or a semi–public educational enviorment. I have worked with specialists across the country on education and education law. My goal is educating parents and the public in these alternatives. Because one size does not fit all.
Many of the educational needs of these kids requires one to know the rights afforded to free education or FAPE. Some laws are federal, some laws local, and some laws are board/district related. It got me involved in the legal processes of administration law. I am working towards a degree in Alternative Dispute Resolution. Funny thing is it has nothing to do with education!
I am a firm believer in home schooling. I did home school my youngest daughter in certain subjects while she was in a Montesori school.
She lost her Mom when she was ten, and although I raised her alone, therapy became the most important issue. She required all of my time and I gave up both of my businesses. There followed several difficult years for her.
However, I am proud to say that I was successful in preventing the state from requiring any immunizations or vaccinations of any kind. I did later get her a tetanus shot which I found to be safe. That stance is common among those who home school their children. She will be finishing her degree soon and still never received any shots. She read a couple of books that her Mom had left for her and now knows as much about shots as anyone… Death by Injection.. and The Poisoned Needle. Both are now hard to find.
I applaud you for what you are doing, Danny.
So of course I would be drawn to a 17 yr. old who has Trayvon Martins background. It has always been my suspicion that he was troubled. Florida juked some stats. His Mother got threatned with Children Protective Services and she shipped him off to Brandi Greene a juvi probation officer in order to avoid a CPS case after the school was required to report her for illegal absences. So I do know SD is wrong there. TM was NOT Baker Acted. It was a CPS investigation for truancy!
From the tenor of your reply, Danny, I take it that the CPS business, is not logical supposition on your part, but grounded in fact.
It is grounded in the fact they can make a claim any claim and you are then stuck in civil court because of a mandatory reporter!
Hooson, you do understand that mandatory reporters can report you as a parent for a job they failed to do, such as educational neglect? Reporting does not require proof just a suspicion and anyone can make a report. But mandates require schools to due so in order to make no child left behind.
I confess to miniscule knowledge if any on the topic of mandatory reporting and defer to your knowledge.
Lol
It is not personal knowledge just legal knowledge
The schools who are juking it are not inner cities anymore. How could CPS stay alive? They focus on small schools and family feud reporting. They shove kids on drugs and alternative systems which equal more public funding. CPS is a buisness. So is public schooling. Public schooling is based on property tax. Mandating something that should require more responsibility in this day and age…. Come on.
I seriously doubt it. CPS services are overwhelmed in every state. In general, enforcing mandatory education laws is the business of the district, parental neglect can be charged and fined by the DA.
7. How are schools required to enforce regular school attendance?
Florida law (Section 1003.26, Florida Statutes) specifies steps for enforcement of regular school attendance. It is the responsibility of the school district superintendent to enforce school attendance of all children who are subject to compulsory school age requirements. The responsibility includes:
Develop policies and procedures to ensure that schools respond in a timely manner to each unexcused absence, or absence for which the reason is unknown.
Contact the home for every unexcused absence or absence for which the reason is unknown, to obtain parent justification for the absence.
Evaluate each justification and, based on district policy, determine whether the absence is excused or unexcused; if excused, allow the student to make up assigned work without academic penalty.
Track excused and unexcused absences.
Identify and refer students who may be developing a pattern of nonattendance to the school child study team for intervention services.
Schedule a meeting with certain identified parents to discuss their child’s attendance.
Implement prevention and intervention strategies to address truancy and attendance issues as required for drivers’ licenses and related requirements for habitual truants.
Send a notice to the superintendent of schools and to the district home education contact regarding patterns of nonattendance for specific students.
Refer habitual truancy cases to the case staffing committee and/or child-in-need- of-services provider for assistance.
They are overwhelmed because they MUST investigate EVERY call. There is a priority list. If it is a Mandated reported and the reported just has to suspect abuse that is first.
So lets say Cassandra I find out who you are. I can be your kids teacher. She comes to school smelling like smoke. I personally feel second hand smoke is child abuse (hey LA does) so I report you because your kid is harldl in school. Things I suspect since you smoke around your kid. Hell CPS studies everything. They come in see an ashtray have you sign over all medical records and see your kid had 10 ear infections in 9 months. Bet I can find a study to prove you caused it honey! Bet I can send you to TASC and make you an alcoholic because when your ex has your kid you drink with the girls. Bet then I can then even make the fact your kid was home with an ear infection actually that you are are just too drunk to get up to send your kid to school.
By the time it is all done. I just did a fishing expedition into HIPPA legally because I had a suspision. Truth is cassandra. I was just a mandated reporter and hated you smoking around your kid. But theybhad to come check you out.
What exactly is habitually truant? Could not a school district not be providing FAPE to cause it?
There is FEDERAL law Cassandra.
Parents have the ability to appeal.
Don’t rely on the attendance office and/or computerized truancy notices.
B. Have you provided FAPE?
1. Is the student’s nonattendance related to the student’s disability? If the student’s absenteeism relates or could relate to the student’s disability, the District has an obligation to convene an IEPC and develop an IEP that addresses the issue.
2. Does nonattendance relate to the District’s failure to provide appropriate programs and services?
a. Nonattendance may be in protest to an inappropriate placement, programs, and/or services.
b. This often correlates with a parent request for residential placement due to alleged school phobia, depression, or extremely low self esteem.
c. In the case of In re Child With Disabilities 19 IDELR 448 (SEA VT 1992), a parent of an eighteen (18) year old student with learning disabilities and ADD requested a residential program for the student after his third unsuccessful attempt to complete the ninth grade, in large part due to his excessive absences. The court held that the student’s poor attendance record was “a manifestation and consequence of his handicapping condition combined with ineffective programming”. The court concluded that the district’s IEP failed to provide FAPE and order the district to develop an appropriate IEP for providing for residential placement at public expense for one (1) year.
We have an inquest going on right now in Toronto that is an absolutely horrible case. I was indirectly involved in it after one child died.
The grandparents were given authority over 4 of their grandkids by the Catholic Children’s Aid. Background checks on them weren’t done, had they done it, those monsters never would have been given those kids.
One child, Jeffrey Baldwin, was starved to death and he died Nov. 30, 2002. My sister’s sister-in-law became a foster mother to his 3 siblings immediately following taking the kids from the home and arresting the grandparents.
The 3 kids spent Christmas with my family where I met them for the first time. It was absolutely heartbreaking!! I cry whenever I think of those kids, as I am right now. Our society, my society failed these kids and their brother Jeffrey.
Last week, their father testified at the inquest and yesterday, his mother failed to show up at the inquest (it was her parents who abused and neglected her kids).
The kids developed severe behavior problems and ended up being separated and raised in different homes. I hope to get an update on how they are doing later this week.
At one time, I read quite lot about different types of abuse, how it is passed on and wondered if there was a solution. As far as I know, there is no way to “cure” abuse and prevent it from reoccurring. That is why convicted abusers are treated so differently after serving their sentences. They are excluded from living in society without severe restrictions.
This is a heartbreaking story but it is not uncommon. Sadly, I have known many others who have been abused. I have no novel ideas about how to stop it.
Nettles,
I have seen and been a part of so many cases at a point you become numb. But for anyone to believe the CPS in America even with back ground checks in foster care and mandated reporting to hail the process in removing parental rights for this syestem is disgusting.
Look up how many cases against CPS that have been filed in this country. Why are they overwhelmed? Why do they fail?
Cassandra,
CPS is Band aiding Bullshit. Does not work does it? I fought mandated reporters for parents who had kids that were rufsed IEPS. Kids that were placed in homes and mental facilities for minor things. The district then took parents to court for non compliance interm with compulsory attendence laws. The kids eventially quit school. It was too much stress on the family. Program here program there. Check in here. Check in there. The parents sign them out to get rid of CPS. CPS is overwhelmed because they focus not on abuse but what keeps the system alive. In the interm abused kids who need their help die. 10% more from the homes they remove them from and these courts are involved in die.! Most times these kids are abused because they were removed for “risks” while the family was getting court ordered CPS services. Look at the stats. I kid you not.
Even so, he slipped through the cracks and was destined to become a thug without true intervention. I actually have a lot of compassion for him. It was not his fault that he was utterly ignored. He become what he was allowed to become absent any realistic discipline or guidance. NO ONE was ever there for him. Such is the case for many teenagers. Parents continue to do this unabated because there are no consequences to them. The tragedy is watching their children get sentenced to prison or pay the ultimate price while the parents cry out in anguish. Even when that happens, the parents show no remorse for their failures and blame someone or something else. The erosion of traditional family values is our greatest failure.
I did not realize how active I was back then. I really liked Kathyca. She was straight up.
I appreciated her information also. She was very clear in her writing and easy to understand.
We could use her legal expertise here. Has she ever posted at the site?
No she hasn’t posted here. I wasn’t able to go to the treehouse and ask people to participate here. So unless word of mouth go around, a number of contributors don’t know this discussion takes place.
This was another blow to team Zimmerman. He had so little voices in his corner and together we could have been way louder than we were divided.
Together, we could have gotten the media and the politicians attention. I wonder how they would have reacted if O’Mara and West said, no we got plenty of money. People have looked through the discovery and have created an online group that sees this case for what it is…a show trial.
He was a product of his enviorment indeed Jordon.
As a parent I do express sorrow for his parents. I could never imagine losing one of my children even if they caused it. Kids are sometimes reckless even if they were brought up in good homes. But even more reason to be diligent as a PARENT, not a friend. This case should have been something the black community sat back and thought “What are WE doing wrong?” “Are WE teaching our youth to be a victim?” ” What should WE change?”
In the end I hope the lesson has not failed his parents. Especially since it appears they want to keep his memory alive. Sure, when our loved ones die we forgive many of their mistakes, we look past their mistakes, but I do not believe it helps to heal by blaming everyone else for something they or you could have changed. And it also is dangerous to make excuses in this case.
I know GZ is in constant termoil over taking someones life.
I am sure it helps him none if we minimize the decsion he had no choice to make. If things could have been different I am sure the outcome would have been as well.
I dislike HOW these parents took on the death of their son, and who they chose to find what they may have needed to accept it. But in the end I see them as victims of the system as well. Willing victims.
They too chose to be victims. So that is where my sympathy ends. Money would have been the last thing on my mind if I had wanted justice!
LoL After Omara making his comments, I believe it was during opening statements re the pinky ring, I have long wondered about many many things between SD and MOM. I think there is a REAL BACK STORY there, and would love to hear. Maybe Mark Omara will tell it in his book 🙂
I read through all of this but did not see my initial question after which I was so unjustly criticized. I think it was the first question.// Was it deleted?
LOL. You are reading the wrong thread. This isn’t in response to anyone.
It’s my shining a light on the awakening that took place at the treehouse in the early morning hours of April 6th.
OK.. I am embarrassed. Sorry.
Nettles,you have some Sherlock Holmes in you!
As far as all that stuff, it just never made any sense that MOM would be involved in that. No sense at all. Unless you’re someone who hates MOM. That hatred always seemed like something personal to me. I have no evidence. No insider information. Just my take on it. lol
You said: Nettles,you have some Sherlock Holmes in you!
Her next project is to finally reveal the truth about the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations.
Not until she uncovers the real Rick Madigan!
That is her true test. LOL.
To the allegation made yesterday that O’Mara wanted a trial from the beginning to get a CNN contract and that this strategy was revealed in June/July 2012 to Sundance’s inquiry of court personnel and people who knew Mr. O’Mara, I point to Mr. O’Mara’s August 13th presser in which he announced the defense would be seeking a Writ to get Lester off the case and he answered questions about his August 9th posting to seek a self-defense immunity hearing.
Where on the treehouse can you find evidence in August that Sundance knew that to be false? I’ve searched the threads in the 2 weeks after the August 9th posting and can find no evidence that Sundance thinks that’s a lie, or mention of a CNN contract.
LOL, in my mind (as I see the real world), I picture Judge Nelson picking up the phone after reading the legal team’s post above and saying “Uh uh Mark, you’re not putting this off on me. Get out there and defend your client and prove it was self defense in court!” Sorry I couldn’t resist 🙂
Judge Nelson didn’t know any of this affected her until August 30th. The court of appeal granted the Writ to remove Lester on August 29th.
Thanks for that reminder Nettles. Glad you have all the info and facts to keep us pointed in the right direction 🙂 Guess I have to let the Nelson off the hook on that one.
way to go nettles; i love the way you smell a rat!
The media can’t decide what they want. GZ in the news or GZ out of the news…or is it Kelly Sims who can’t decide.
some of us already linked to the corresponding Sentinel story about her father’s criminal past. He sounds like the kind of man very capable of provoking a fight with GZ.
I saw those links at least last week sometime. Papa Dean is a convicted felon. He had 10 years of probation. That was why I asked the question of someone if Dean had completed his probation period. The answer was yes. I kinda wondered if that wasn’t why he decided to not press charges against George. When you already have a record, it gets a little harder to claim domestic violence, doesn’t it, or shouldn’t it? The piece of trash was actually accepting stolen vehicles to use for his landscape business. There has been much discussion about TM being badly parented. How about Shellie growing up with a father that was not exactly an upright citizen. On Twitter Tracy Martin had a problem with TM lying to him, he didn’t have a problem with him lying, he just went berserk when TM lied to him. How do you teach a child that lying is bad, but it’s OK in some circumstances.
I also noticed that Shellie ran to daddy when times got tough. Didn’t she run to daddy the night of or before the incident because she had an argument with George? Where the heck is her Mom?
You are correct and as I said before, I still do not understand why MSM did not pick up on that and follow through. George and Shellie had a “fight” on that same night, just as he did with his ex. Were there more fights? IDK, but if I had been a reporter, I would have been all over that… maybe to “prove” that George was not docile and also to follow through on the other accusations made against him and draw a connection. It COULD have been a story but I am glad it was not. I am only saying I am surprised that the media missed it.
I know nothing about her MOM. Maybe JFP does.
Shellie said she an George argued on Saturday, Feb. 25th and she went to stay at her father’s house.
She was not at home at all on Sunday.
As to Shellie’s mom, according to her brother DJ (Dave Jr?), their Mom, Mikki was at the house on Sept. 9th and she told DJ to run George has a gun. Reporters found DJ under a tree and he relayed that story to them.
I’m not sure why Mikki nor DJ have police statements in what got released.
The dates are not important. My point was about how the media did not follow through. I was never a reporter while I was in the business but I do know a story when I see one.
Reporters do not have complete freedom to rummage where they want. Their first duty is to the editor. The editor decides the assignments and what is to be covered.
In a story as highly charged as this one, I think it is a safe assumption that the course and extent of reporter digging was a collective decision with the editors having the primary voice.
Such was not the case when I was in the business. Free lance reporters had a lot of freedom. Things have changed . Reporters today do not even investigate.
Jordan –
I agree with you as to free lance reporters. They still have a lot of freedom. But a line reporter such as Rene Stutzman is curtailed by the circumstances of her employment.
Christi O’Connor is a free lancer. Free lancers have to sell stories. They are like paparazzi, Paparazi take pictures that they can sell. Free lancers are (in one sense) word-paparazzis. It is easier to sell a story with an anti-GZ twist than it is to sell a story with an anti-TM twist.
hooson; I am 67. The newspaper business was my life. I assure you that there was a time when reporters had much more freedom than they do now and they were recognized for finding new material. Managing editors loved it whenever that happened. It is how Pulitzer Prizes were won. Today, as we know from reading about the OS and its part in the case, reporters were muzzled to conform to what the hierarchy wanted. The truth was forbidden to be told if it conflicted with their predetermined racial agenda.I bet many of them never left the office before writing an article. Many of the stories were simply rehashes of what Crump and his cronies said. NO ONE did any fact changing.
Jordan, I don’t know if some people are making assumptions, or if I’m just not up on the latest news, but you seem to be implying it was a physical fight (as with previous ex), and I’ve seen a few others say she actually “left” him that night.
I heard it was an argument, not a physical fight, and that she went there to cool off. They said she went to her father’s house. I don’t know for sure if her parents are still married or not, but maybe they are, and the report was she went to her father’s, when they meant her parents’ house.
Do we actually know these specifics? I don’t know.
Sorry.. did not mean a physical fight. It may have been their only argument. IDK. I just thought it COULD have been a story to pursue.
It likely would have been more than a first (i.e., only) argument. Argumentation builds up over time. Earlier arguments may have ended up without Shellie going to a parent’s home.
Shouldn’t Nelson have been recused because of her seemingly lengthy history with Shellie (Dean) Zimmerman’s father? Hel1 Lester’s wife was in the prosecutor’s office who charged George on the Bar Room charges. Oh my God, it is seeming that everyone in that community all know each other, and have had connections to someone or another. It is sickening that there doesn’t seem to be anyone who is or can be impartial. That’s what you get with the same people running the system probably for decades.
My opinion from the start was that an out of county or out of state attorney should have represented George.. one who had no ties or obligations to anyone in that jurisdiction. It might have made an impact on everything that everyone did, including the state and the judge(s). Perhaps the case would have never even proceeded.
My choice was Roy Black, or Gerry Spence, even though he is retired. This was right up his alley. But there were many others, too.
I agree with that Jordan. There was no possibility of George getting a fair trial unless the entire case was moved out of the area. It seems that O’Mara believed that the case was so high profile that even if the venue was moved it would not have made any difference. I’m certainly not going to knock O’Mara, as he did win an acquittal for George. The fact that there are still so many unanswered questions, by so many of us, and TM is still seen as an angel, and George is still considered a monster is without doubt a replection on the fact that TM’s history never came out. I know that O’Mara did release some discovery, and some court documents that addressed TM’s less than stellar history, how many ever read that information as we all did? I am still of the belief that it was not O’Mara’s job to fight the BGI, it was not O’Mara’s job to fight the school district that sent TM back out into society without any criminal penalties.
It is my opinion that other attorney’s such as Beasley are the ones to fight the media trashing of GZ. I am guessing that Beasley is sitting back and waiting until the divorce settlement is accomplished. There does seem to be a sticking point with Shellie wanting half of the NBC lawsuit monies if I am not mistaken.
I’m sorry Jordan, I will add to this later. The reason I have not been here much is that I am pizzed at what has been happening to Ted Cruz. I’ll be back later, or tomorrow. Have a good night.
On October 2 to 4th, a 9 person panel with a support staff of 20 people will meet to discuss ethics in Florida. http://www.ethics.state.fl.us/
If there are issues with the sunshine laws and what you seen come out of the Zimmerman trial, let these folks know. What about the ethics surrounding those in power? City Manager Bonaparte, Mayor Triplett releasing evidence to the family, Wolfinger stepping aside to allow a political prosecution.
That is true. People should be calling for an internal investigation into these departments. As far as the Sunshine laws go, Florida is a state that allows non residents, but requires a person to be US citizens to make FIOA requests. I remember some tree people stating Sundance could do this because he was resident. Every state is different. If there is a refusal to release that info. under Sunshine laws then an individual has legal remedy and tbey can recoup legal fees. Sundance has stated that SAO has required him to place a desposit. Right there he could ask for legal remedy. In fact under Sunshine laws if there is a refusal for any info. they must tell you why in writing.
I have followed Ted Cruz for quite a while, at least since Ron Paul recommended him to me long ago. I started following Ron Paul when I was studying the FED during my Finance and Economics classes. A USAF Major sort of introduced me to him and I kept in touch and supported him both politically and financially as best I could. His work may very well be the start of a revolution to change politics as usual as young people learn about our Constitution.. more so now than in any recent years.
I grew up in SC during an era in which many of us could recite much of the Constitution. We all read the Federalist Papers back then and knew why they were written so I am also a fan of Scalia.
Fight the good fight, minpin. I am getting too old for this after the last election. I gave it all I had. It is my children’s turn. I home schooled both of them in American History and the Constitution so they have the tools to move us forward.
Be careful. Most Republicans have become traitors. They eat their own. There is no honor among those thieves. NO ONE upholds the oath of office so NO ONE can impeach them. Tragic.
Being legally impartial and the codification for ethics under recusal for conflicts of interests is set to legal standards. Just because a defendants family member or even the defendant himself stood before a judge in a prior preceding is not cause for recusal. Could you imagine our court system if that were the case? In fact it would be against due process and law to move a party away from their jurisdiction. There needs to be clear conflicts of interests that require a judge to be unable to be impartial in order for recusal. A judge or a party to the suit can request an agree to a recusal.
Some of those instances which are universal:
~The judge is related to a party, attorney, or spouse of either party (usually) within three degrees of kinship.
~The judge is a party.
~The judge is a material witness unless pleading purporting to make the Judge a party is false (determined by presiding judge ( see Substitution)
~The judge has previously acted in the case in question as an attorney for a party, or participated in some other capacity.
~The judge prepared any legal instrument (such as a contract or will) whose validity or construction is at issue.
~Appellate judge (appeals process) previously handled case as a trial judge.
~The judge has personal or financial interest in the outcome. This particular ground varies by jurisdiction. Some require recusal if there is any interest at all in the outcome, while others only require recusal if there is interest beyond a certain value.
~The judge determines he or she cannot act impartially
So where are the FOIA documents that Sundance was supposed to get from Corey’s office a few days ago? I believe he said something about not accepting the documents, or something. I had already said that it was highly unlikely that Corey’s office would release anything incriminating to Sundance. Imagine Corey’s office sending Sundance hundreds of pages of redacted information, and charging him by the page. Eric Holder sent plenty of pages to the Congressional committee investigating the Fast and Furious debacle. Most pages contained less than a few words after redaction. I believe some pages were completely redacted. Seems some have figured out a way to hide whatever information requested by anyone if it disturbed the narrative. Did Sundance really think he would uncover a smoking gun? That’s funny right there.
@minpin06, set down your hate (if possible) Send me an email and I’ll share the issues (and the actual conversation with the SAO) it ain’t as easy as you think it is……. and it damned sure ain’t funny.
Corrupt manipulative legal systems are difficult to go up against. They have all of the advantages except an important pair. Honesty, and The Truth.
By The Way – Who else is actually doing anything to get to the truth of this fiasco beside TCTH? Are you? Or is it just easier to cast aspersions?
I thought so.
Send you an email? LOL Maybe someone else may take you up on your offer, but I’ll wait for the public version.
And to add to my above comment Sundance, I know that you knew that you would never get anything close to the truth about anything that involves Angela Corey’s office. I personally wouldn’t have been willing to wates the money, especially if the donations from other’s were involved. It’s a waste of assets. I know you know that. Fishing expeditions in the wide seas of the world never usually work out real well.
So what exactly are YOU doing ?
Sitting on the shore just waiting to critique the value of harvest from returning fishermen who are actually making earnest efforts ? Much easier huh?
I spoke to you about the FOIAs in a previous thread. And you stated that I am not doing anything. You have no clue what I am doing. Besides, It is my understanding that there have been lawsuits filed at some junctures when Florida failed to release public info. under FIOA. Are YOU willing to go that far? These lawsuits include some of the very things you claim to have been requesting. Thing is, you have not publicly shared that information., nor the responses. In fact you have even placed some posts as protected. So some have no choice but to file their own requests and seek legal remedies from there. Some do so without announcing it!
Minpin – I think it is very good that Sundance is pursuing this. It should be pursued, regardless of the outcome, expected or otherwise. He already came up with some great stuff on this score and there is no reason to believe that he will not come up with more, as long as he doesn’t quit the pursuit.
I do not see anyone else doing it, so yes, I agree. It’s his own time. At a minimum, they have been alerted that someone is on their trail. Coverups are more serious than the crime being covered up.
Sundance sent this to me via email about Rick Madigan’s email – tells me NOTHING. But we knew it would.
—–Original Message—–
From: thelastrefuge@reagan.com
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:59pm
To: “Rick Madigan”
Subject: RE: Sundance, please reply Rick Madigan
Mr. Madigan, after recent events, which I am absolutely astounded by, regretfully I really don’t have any inclination to be in further contact with you.
Personally I take exception to your continual disparagements of the community surrounding the Conservative Treehouse.
There is an undefined element of seemed instability surrounding your communication and expressions. Out of an abundance of caution, and anticipating your self-destructive tendencies, I have requested the admin team to place you on a moderation list.
“Broken things can become blessed things if you let God do the mending”.
Wishing you the best of luck on your future endeavors.
Warmest regards,
Sundance
—–Original Message—–
From: “Rick Madigan”
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:16pm
To: “thelastrefuge@reagan.com”
Subject: Sundance, please reply Rick Madigan
Hi Sundance,
I want to share something really important, and it will help you immensely, but I need to know something first:
Have you or any of the Admin received or exchanged emails or calls from anyone regarding me?
Thanks
Sincerely,
Rick
————————————
Well Justfactsplz – that reveals nothing! I sense I’m driving Sundance mad with my continual assertion that he is Rick. I shall mention it no more. It appears Rick has left us anyway. Farewell and following seas.
What were you looking for it to tell you?
I’m looking for who Rick Madigan is. Justfactsplz really wants to know as well.
I’m sure all the people who talked with him and shared with him want to know the backstory.
It appears he gave several contradictory statements. He owes all of us he conversed with an explanation. A good honest explanation.
@Nettles, have you ever thought about just asking him?
just sayin’….
Now I don’t want to make you mad but I thought I did when I told you about my suspicions.
When no one thought you were Rick (from Feb. 23rd to April 6th), he sure sounded like you.
Then I let it known and I saw evidence that tried to separate you two. Did Rick ever email the treehouse prior to April 6th? I wonder if you weren’t also trying to convince the admins there you were two different people.
I’ll take your advice and email him. Watch for it. 🙂
How do you think Rick will feel about you sharing his email without asking him first?
That’s another reason, I think you’re him. You would need to get his permission I would think before you send me one that can be posted. right?
OMG – You are so attached to this belief you just can’t fathom anything else. Huh? I just said it matters not to me. Good grief. Dunno, why don’t you email rick Madigan and ask him?
You are seriously delusional in your incapacity to admit you are wrong.
U.N.R.E.A.L.
Sundance –
I am one who has believed that Rick and you are two different individuals. And yet, I have to admit that Nettle’s posts on this have gotten me to re examine my own views.
While I find it hard to comprehend how much you are able to accomplish as much as you do as “Sundance”, it is even harder to comprehend how you could do it and maintain multiple identities on top of that including some of the diatribes that Rick Madigan unleashed at CTH.
And yet, Nettles certainly comes up with a lot of compelling time sequence analyses that raise questions as to how logically these posts fall in line were it not for some form of sock puppetry.
Unless Rick clears matters up – this debate probably goes nowhere. So if you ignore it, it will probably fade away.
hooson: For the record I have often said much the same as you from the start, expressing my doubts. I found evidence that both posted simultaneously and that was the key to me. I have NEVER said they were one and the same, unless out of context. Nettles know this.
That’s another reason I thought they were one and the same. Too many times, they were both online at the same time.
Their pictures could be viewed in the last 15 commenters section between midnight and 5am.
It’s clear to me, Rick had admin. help at the treehouse for some of his comments to be proven right. He knew too much about interrelationship between the female admins. which he commented about and he knew about first posts and interactions that occurred there long before he started posting.
Now I read in emails, he did profess to know George Zimmerman personally.
I’m trying to get to the bottom of it. I’ll let you know when I do.
One other difference I thought I noticed between Sudance and Rick Madigan is that Sundance seemed to possess a quasi-religious streak at times – whereas, one time, IIRC, Rick came out with an ugly attack on Mother Teresa. Those two aspects seemed irreconcilable as being from the same person.
I’m not so sure. SD doesn’t have a problem referring to some conservatives whose politics/policies he doesn’t like as ‘decepticons’. I don’t think he’d have a problem calling out a religious person if he felt they or their actions don’t fit what he believes they should be. It’s all about what SD feels and believes is truth and his agendas. *shrug*
I know of his attack on her and have read much worse elsewhere so I do not the truth about her.
I have had several exchanges with Rick about Scripture. I am convinced he is a believer or at least once was. Not sure why but he wavered on the subject and made it appear that he had changed his belief system at least once, maybe more, in the past. His different views were polar opposites. He could speak well about both atheism and Christianity. If you can find any of his past threads, you might find them interesting. He started one with multiple versions of My God Is an Awesome God.
He had a habit of posting extreme views on his site…. maybe to provoke thought.. maybe to provoke controversy. IDK.
hooson1st
Hell, SD may see Mother Teresa as a liberal. Or maybe even worse… a ‘prog’.
Gasp! Of course she was liberal. 🙂
Is it possible that Rick did know George well enough to speak with him? That would also imply he might have known much more than he ever said in any of his posts. If he did speak with George, wouldn’t that rule out him being SD?
YOU: I’m trying to get to the bottom of it. I’ll let you know when I do.
You appear to know much more about this than any of us so you are, in a sense, out there on your own. At this point, I think that all any of us can do is speculate and geesh, we have heard enough of that already. I have no idea how I could help you.
Clearly, you are on a mission.
If you actually do succeed in uncovering the truth, I suspect everyone here wants to know all about it and why it has been so important to you. I want to know how it affected the case, if it actually did. Maybe what Rick did was a good thing. I cannot discount that completely.
By making it a Sherlock Holmes case, even if unintentionally, you have kept our attention. I suspect you are seeing a side of yourself that may have been unknown to you prior to this. You are very talented and could turn your compassion for others along with that talent into a money making venture to help the homeless and needy even more than you do now. You already have a reputation and are now known by lots of folks, including those in the media. Even those who did not like your views on the case, would have difficulties not supporting anything you do to help feed, not only poor blacks, but anyone who is hungry. If you speak even half well as you write, you could raise as much money as anyone. Your best asset is that you have the HEART to do it.
Take a deep breath once in a while, please.
I don’t like being lied to. Never did. If Rick knows George he lied to us online. If he doesn’t, he lied to Sundance offline.
I’ve been transparent. You know what I know.
I do not speak well. I’ve battled mouth cancer for 21 years now. I was diagnosed the first time on my 29th birthday. Over the years, I’ve lost half my tongue and the right side of my mouth. It’s all been reconstructed using parts from my arm. I have a check-up at the cancer hospital next week, so all you pray for good results for me. I’ve been diagnosed with a new cancer 4 times now. Let’s hope there won’t be a 5th time.
I have never been a political person. In trying to help the food bank and soup kitchen here, I realized I had to get to know the local politicians. Well one thing led to another and I found myself writing the Prime Minister. I drove the provincial politicians nuts but made some progress.
I’m sure the Mayor has been happy to have me off her case this past year but it’s getting time to focus on the needs of people in my City again.
I like hanging out with you guys though. Not sure what more I can do to help. I’m waiting for a sign from George if he plans on attacking any of the injustice against him. I’d like to help with that so no one else gets treated this way. It’s likely not going to be any time soon.
OMG, Annette. I am so very sorry to hear this. You just went to the top of my prayer list. Look, you can turn that into a plus. You do not have to speak publicly. You have a voice that is greatly respected. Just your online presence commands attention. Who, pray tell me, ignores you? I have said what I felt the need to say. I recognize talent when I see it. I am sorry if I have offended or upset you.
You have been remarkably open, Nettles, and a good example to all.
Nettles, you can count on those prayers for a good results on your check up next week. I’m starting right now.
♥ thank you ♥
Rick told me that he once was a believer then he lost his faith. He said he did not want to disclose how he came to lose his faith because it could cause others to lose theirs. He said he regained his faith when all this happened to George and saw that George was relying on God to get him through all of this.
Sundance purports to be a believer. He starts everyday with a prayer and has done so since before the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case.
While there are *some* similarities between the two, I tend to believe Rick and Sundance are two different people, but, as always, I could be wrong. They appear to have different belief systems. If they are one and the same, then Sundance/Rick is very mentally disturbed (not just a sock puppet) and has a LOT of time on his hands.
Another good question is: What are you hoping to communicate to us in sharing this email?
@Sundance, one other thing I’m curious about. Was the Tara that posted at the treehouse and found the ABC tape your wife or ex-wife?
No.
Thanks.
OK, now back to the HOA stuff.
That the Martins were trying to get a settlement was known and discussed in July/August 2012. George was copied on the correspondence. That’s how they knew about it.
On October 29th (which happened to be a court date in the case about the gag-hearing), the Martins decided to negotiate for money instead of represent their son in court. O’Mara learned they had turned down a million dollar offer that day.
In February 2012, he told Rene Stutzman about it and it was printed in the paper.
When Crump filed the redacted settlement, while he said he provided O’Mara and the state with a copy, O’Mara said they hadn’t received it. He filed a motion to get it unsealed and further argued the redacted parts should be unredacted.
You clearly did not know there had been a settlement. We can watch your eyes light up and your brain start processing the settlement. First you thought it had just happened in April 2013, then you thought it happened in February 2013. Near as I can tell, it actually occurred in November 2012.
As O’Mara said in his statement on April 8th. They didn’t know there had been an agreement reached and its important information to have when questioning witness’s bias and motivation on the stand.
You are correct. I had no idea there was a settlement. Point?
When crump filed with the court he provided the copy(s) of the “certified USPS mail signed/returned receipt” from O’Mara’s office, and all recipient’s. 😦 (O’Mara truth fail)
Point, on the day Crump filed this, no one, including O’Mara knew there had been a settlement.
SD says ” When crump filed with the court he provided the copy(s) of the “certified USPS mail signed/returned receipt” from O’Mara’s office, and all recipient’s. 😦 (O’Mara truth fail)
Just because Chump provided a copy of the signed/returned receipt, LMAO DOES NOT 1) tell us WHAT WAS RECIEVED 2) That Omara actually SAW what it was. ROFLMAO send something to a company that has a mailroom, whomever picks up mail, signs thoses things, UNLESS it is Restricted, and again they would have to go a diff route. THIS I KNOW 🙂 TRUST ME 🙂 Also, knowing CHUMP and company, there is NO Telling how much CRAP was sent to Omara Law Firm. That whole statement makes me really laugh out loud! Especially from SD and all the super sleuthing he does…
And the more I read SD posting stuff HERE vs what he posts at TCTH I am more confused and really feeling misled on some issues. Hanging my head Darnit…
What was provided by Crump was a certified mail receipt for the “Confidential Court Filing.” Meaning he filed the settlement into the criminal record and had to inform MOM that he filed sealed records.
MOM was aware there were ongoing negotiations, just like we knew…it was public record. Crump wanted MORE then the insurance coverage. MOM was in the dark about negotiations beyond the limit. He stated that he had suspected they settled beyond the insurance limit because the prior offer of a million was turned down by Crump.
On the settlement…….
The insurance company was clear that the settlement was not admission of wrong doing or responsibility. Many settlements happen this way. Crump knows that.
Take a look at this Brown case (the man who was run over by the cop). Crump is the atty. The city settled for 550,000. The cop was fired. There was an internal investigation. The cop faced a grand jury for vehicular homicide. He was not charged. Now Crump sends out yet again a freaking funeral director. And is releasing things like the dash cam video to the public, and pleading to the State to investigate and charge the cop. Prior to this the Scheme Team was pleading to Scott to remove Corey from the Jordan Davis case. He lost that bid.
It seems like this legal bunch reaches beyond justice with the intention to fail in order to make it look like blacks are indeed victimized by the judicial process!
When will the media see this atty. for who he is? He is not even a social engineer. He is an ambulance chaser. He revictimizes his clients and the dead. He makes victims out of the black community! The living and those mourning are his meal ticket. His ticket to fame and fortune. Justice is equal for everyone. If Crump wants justice he is first going to have to accept the process just like the rest of us.
I was talking with David about this on facebook yesterday. I don’t get why Crump is doing this press if the city settled.
David thought he’s looking to sue the State.
Again, why isn’t the state motivated to shut this operation down. In the Zimmerman case, they appeared to bolster the operation. What is going on?
Perhaps he wants to sue the State. But under what civil suit? They investigated it. Brown did not have clean hands. When police put on their lights…PULL OVER! If he did not die best beleive he would have been charged for running. When a person runs they put everyone at risk. Just pull the hell over! I suppose the homicide charge they want would not get a conviction. They would have to prove the cop was reckless. It happened so quick.
I am against police chases like that too. Some cities and States call those types of chases off. Too many people die for minor infractions.
I think Crump is just trying to ride the Zimmerman wave for now.
Eventually people will start fighting back against their false allegations and legal filings. They should just ask for suits to be dropped for frivolis lawsuits and defamation. Hit him where it hurts. His POCKET!
Think of Mr. Crump as a oil wildcatter. You keep drilling holes. Sometimes they are dry, sometimes you hit a gusher. You keep drilling. Nothing personal.
Thanks Danny. OH and I guess I had missed it or forgot, but when you said dashcam video it reminded me. While I was reading early this morning, I came across a comment with link someone had posted. I swear you cant make the crap up with this case/these people! The Judge who was suppose to hear TrayFam request to get the 911 tapes was none other than Judge Nelson! but since the Mayor or whoever it was that released them, that was something she didn’t have to deal with. Wonder what she would have done? That was awhile before her turn on the bench with this case. Hmmm
On April 4th, without a reason or an apparent need, Crump filed paperwork into the George Zimmerman criminal case file. The documents were the confidential agreement between the Martin family and the HOA. On April 5th the Court Clerk sent Crump a letter informing Crump that the documents did not meet the criteria, and would be unsealed. Crump was given 10 days to file a response to the Court as to why the Confidential Settlement Agreement should not be unsealed. On April 13th, in a 4 page filing Crump aksed Judge Nelson to keep the settlement amount and the parties in the agreement confidential. In other words he did not mind that the Settlement was known , just that the conditions, the people involved, and the amount be kept secret.
The docket in the criminal case shows two entries:
04/12/2013 MDCR MOTION TO DETERMINE THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF COURT RECORDS
04/12/2013 LETT LETTER FROM ATTY CRUMPS OFFICE IN REGARDS TO DOCUMENTS SEALED
The form paper that covers allegedly confidential material filed under a “Notice of Confidential Information within Court Filing” includes a space for a Certificate of Service.
We scan see the Motion to Determine Confidentiality. Never saw the Settlement!
So Sundance MOM did not recieve an unreacted copy and he would have known AFTER Crump filed it to the criminal file. From there MOM had to fight to get an unredacted copy of what was placed in the record. So yes, he like everyone else knew there was a settlement. He had no clue who and how much was involved until he forced Crump to divulge it.
For some reason I thought Modarress filed the agreement. If I’m remembering correctly I wonder if it was with Crump’s permission.
Modarres and Jackson were tweeting out the confidential filing was from them.
When it appeared on the docket, we knew the filing was from them and then Rene wrote that she saw the first 5 pages of it and advised what the subject matter was.
This may be what I was thinking of.
Interestingly Modarress tweeted the “we filed” on Apr 5 2013 at 10:14 AM. He deleted the tweet on Apr 19 2013 at 19 22. Wonder why.
No, that’s wrong. He deleted it on Apr 19 2013 at 22:13:08 (CST)
I now know WHY Sundance initially claimed MOM was advising. It appears it was rooted in this April 11th filing where it shows the HOA CCd George in C/O MOM about settlement talks (ie; exhibits A&B). These are in this filing to show that IF Crump wanted everything so confidential why would he be fwding letters to the HOA after they ALREADY hired attys?
It is interesting to me why that document would be filed period. It is not relevant to the case.
The only thing I can think of is that the Scheme Team was trying to pollute the proceedings. If there were a settlement, then GZ must be guilty, right?
Any other ideas?
Stevie – I was thoroughly confused at the time, as well. First of all, Crump had no standing whatsoever in the criminal case. If Crump thought it had some bearing, he should have submitted it to BDLR and his people. The whole thing was bizarre. I agree with you that the only seemingly rational explanation was that Crump thought that it could hurt George Zimmerman.
I suspected he was trying to shore up his argument that he was opposing counsel and the settlement proved that. Sadly for him however, it didn’t.
No dispute here.
“If there were a settlement, then GZ must be guilty, right?” IMO exactly what Crump et al wanted. They really have a well oiled machine, and know how to use publicity to their advantage – their organization is mind boggling to me. Guess I’ve been too naive 😦
Nettles and/or Sundance…
Was wondering if either of you have looked into the young man mentioned in court, Emmanuel Burgess, who was one of the two teens involved in the Olivia Bertalan home invasion August 2011?
Some pretty interesting stuff… he lived in the building neighboring Brandy’s and, like Trayvon, he had a history with stolen jewelry. Burgess also liked to steal Playstation 3’s and resell them according to the article linked below.
Seeing as how Chad had lived in the RTL for three years, if he didn’t know Burgess personally he certainly would have known of him and seen him around the neighborhood and school bus stop. And since Trayvon had visited the RTL some seven or eight times prior and was hanging out with other teens in Brandy’s neighborhood, it’s possible he may have known Burgess.
It’s also my understanding that Burgess was the prowler that was looking into Frank Taaffe’s windows the night of Feb. 2nd.
Burgess “got away” that night but was arrested about a week before the shooting caught stealing a lap top.
Trayvon was standing on Frank’s lawn when he drew George’s attention.
It’s kinda scary that he was arrested for the RTL home invasion, and then released and right back in the RTL breaking into houses again… wtf?!
And according to the Sanford Herald article linked above, he already had quite an extensive criminal history before the home invasion; warrants out for his arrest, responsible for a B&E spree, etc. That article was from 2009, three years later he’s still breaking into houses.
Wonder if this is another Baker Act success story 😦
The idea sounds good, but who the hell can define mental illness in the context of someone not being well enough to own a gun? Would we really let the government make that decision? IMO, most of the people who would be involved in that argument are mentally ill themselves and should not be allowed to even speak in Congress. Think about abortion. How many on either side of the issue think the other side are all mentally ill? If we are equally divided, does that mean half of us are mentally ill or all of us?
I don’t know about you Americans, but us Canadians have no mental health issues.
Obviously none at all!! 🙂
+a gazillion.
You may be correct. You guys sent all of the crazies to us.. LOL.
Lol.
Is this why Sundance just couldn’t support O’Mara? His perceived politics? Maybe so.
I’ve said repeatedly SD isn’t about truth he’s about his agenda(s). He’s perfectly willing to fudge and spin and outright lie if it forwards his goals. He’s an extremist/fanatic. He used the GZ case just like others with agendas did. Did he care about GZ’s fate? Well, I think any consideration for GZ’s fate was secondary to him. GZ and his family were desperate for any support they could get and TCTH was the go to place for info. Unfortunately I think some members got caught up in SD’s version of the truth and that caused divisions and conflicts. I think SD caused more problems than just causing a reduction in donations.
“I think SD caused more problems than just causing a reduction in donations.” I fear you may be right on the mark with that one. I’m reading an email Sundance shared with me last night, addressed to him from Rick Madigan. Sundance said I could share it or not, it was my call.
In it, Rick says he talked with George Zimmerman last week (it was dated August 10th), and learned that Nettles had worked closely with the defense team but that he (George) never has spoken to me. Rick advises him not to talk with me as I’m too polluted in my support of O’Mara. Anyone who supported O’Mara was “delusional”.
How in anyone’s universe (besides Crump), does that even make sense?!?! I’m George Zimmerman’s enemy because I helped George Zimmerman’s defense team? Beyond insane.
Rick Madigan – it’d be a real good idea if you came clean as to who you are and what games you’ve been playing.
I worked so closely with the defense that when I emailed Mr. West yesterday, I had to write a paragraph introducing myself to the man. I haven’t heard from him yet. Would it help in addition to telling him about his sexy smile to advise I’m not the crazy internet troll BDLR warned him about? LOL
If it’s attention that Rick wants, he sure as hell continues to get it even after going silent. I have asked about SD’s agenda, so I will now ask you the same. What is Rick’s agenda?
I’m pretty certain Rick is a fake.
I’ve sent his emails to Robert to see if he knows who the guy is but I suspect I’ll learn he’s not known to them.
He tried to pass himself off as close to George. I highly doubt it. There is one glaring error in it that suggests it’s a lie. Not sure if Sundance picked up on it and that’s why he told him to take a hike.
Looking at Rick’s comments he posted, he agenda was to praise Sundance and smear O’Mara.
Coreshift-
“Unfortunately I think some members got caught up in SD’s version of the truth and that caused divisions and conflicts. I think SD caused more problems than just causing a reduction in donations.”
To me that is the very worst damage SD did. He knew everyone of the family members were going through hell, and they were all getting death threats. In the beginning, he was doing some great articles, and connecting many dots, especially with the Scheme Team. When he got his dander up against Mark O’Mara, he no doubt tried his hardest to convince those he was in contact with to convince George to dump O’Mara. It would have been wise and with class for him to wish them well, but to stay out of a family’s affairs, especially at a time like that.
Remember when SD claimed that the way O’Mara had the bail bond contract written, that O’Mara did it in a way that George was stuck with O’Mara and that George could not fire O’Mara even if he wanted to? I never saw any bond documents despite that SD claimed he was trying to get a copy of it to prove that George was stuck.
Sorry if my post looks different. Trying to get rid of the firefox background ads today, I mistakenly erased every last little stitch of everything off my computer. Trying to rebuild everything, especially my bookmarks list. Nettles, I had to find this site by clicking on one of your comments over at Mike McDaniels sites. Yeah. I really did that. LOL
I hit the nuclear button by mistake, and it all went boooom.
Oy, hang in there minpin, that’s awful! The “nuclear button” should have a box that comes up to say “are you sure?”!
You are too funny.
I hit the nuclear button by mistake, and it all went boooom.
HOLY COW, minpin.
I was one of those who investigated that bond agreement. I found the first one but NEVER found the second one. I still have not seen it so IDK what was it. I only know what SD posted about it but do not know how he got that information.
Did George ever really have a chance to get a new attorney? If so, I do not know how.
Ted Cruz was still speaking at 12:41 a.m. ET on Wednesday
You have probably followed him longer than anyone here, coreshift, so exactly what is SD’s agenda?
It’s not that complicated. Here’s some hints. The details you can get just by reading his posts.
I suspect a lot of people today have given up on America and are prepared for a showdown against the government. Many look forward to a day of reckoning. Quite a few websites show that it is becoming increasingly more popular. I feel that way sometimes myself. Military websites explain what can be done.
I often see this:
This may surprise you but the oath of office is different for an enlisted person. Officers DO NOT swear allegiance to the President – as a safeguard against a usurper commander-in-chief. They swear allegiance only to the Constitution and it’s why many veterans believe the military can overthrow the government. Here’s the officer’s oath.
“I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.” (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
If you are an enlisted soldier, whose orders are you going to follow?
The last election proved to me that the constitutional republic is lost unless severe action is taken. You can draw your own conclusions as to what severe action means but it does not mean voting out the bad guys. The vote is now powerless to make realistic change. There is no way to impeach those on the Hill who do not abide by the oath of office. They all violate the oath. It means nothing any more. When the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has the power to ignore our Constitution and the power to tax the people, the document is worthless. It is only referenced when it is politically convenient to support a position. Even Bush had no respect for it. The last time we fought in a war as specified in that document was WWII. How many Americans have been “murdered” by our government since then?
I should stop there but I do understand the stance that SD has taken, even if I do not agree with him entirely. I do wish that change could be accomplished peacefully but have seen no evidence that it could happen but I have ears to hear.
I am 67 and fought the good fight but it is time for me to turn this over to my daughters and the new generation. I am not giving up, but I have had that feeling of hopelessness for quite a while now. I am no longer political savvy. I do not understand the new way of doing things and am not even interested any longer. I could not tell you who is a constitutional conservative and who is not. They are all dirty rotten scoundrels whose only loyalty is to money. What the hell is a Republican these days? Or for that manner, a Democrat, a Liberal or a Progressive? And exactly who is Barack Obama or whatever his name is?
On the latest FOIA at TCTH, this is not the first time Sundance has made big promises and failed to deliver. In the MD-SPD FOIA Sundance promised publication of documents showing overt acts of violence by TM while attending Miami Dade schools that never materialized.
Coreshift taped Crump’s appearance on AC360 last night. Why any reporters are going to Crump for facts in a case after the pack of lies he sold to them in the Trayvon story is beyond me.
Simple answer. His lies are proven money makers. His name is now even more widely recognized than ever before.
He just may be the guy to replace Sharpton and Jackson. Aren’t both of them still making money from telling lies? Did you ever even once hear Sharpton apologize for all of his lies and his part in destroying lives of others? Why did he get a pass on completely ignoring and then defying our legal system?
Telling lies is profitable, especially when two different races are involved in any situation. He will always win, usually by an out of court settlement. It’s only a matter of how much he will get in a settlement. I cannot find one single case in which Crump actually argued a case in a court of law in front of a jury.
Jesse Jackson made fortunes, using extortion to bilk “companies” out of millions. In reality, it was real people who paid him but no one really thought about it in that manner.
Notice how many black attorneys have learned to use those same tactics to exact revenge on white people. Crump set another precedent. Get a cheap law degree online, get BGI support, pass the bar exam, set up an office at home, and sue every time a black person is killed. You do not even have to speak the English language fluently. You cannot lose. Easy money.
Funeral Director James E. Cusack… what’s with Crump always trying to pass funeral directors off as medical experts ???
I guess they both make their livings preying on the familys of the deceased… a match made in Helllllo.
Looks like the playbook is back in play. 😦
Wonder if they’ve organized the “No Justice No Peace” march yet.
Vigils first…t-shirts, check…posters, check…
“Family of man run over during police chase holds vigil”
“His family said they held a justice rally for two reasons: to keep his memory alive and garner support for a federal investigation of the former cop who killed him.”
Sounds like everything is going according to plan…
Unfortunately! 😦 They’ve really got the routine down pat.
Race card, check … “they only do it to blacks and Hispanics”
Throw constitutional rights against double jeopardy out the window and demand the defendant be charged and tried again, check.
Distort and misrepresent the situation, check… ‘it was just a seat belt violation’
Hmmm, the only thing missing from the play book is a petition.
So true.
Crump is looking for a payday after his failure in George’s case. As far as I know he got nothing except for a few piddling bucks from the HOA settlement and that likely was divvied up among quite a few people.
lol
How many white folks who have been killed has he represented?
Zimmerman to Ask Florida to Pay Legal Costs
Posted September 23, 2013 in Criminal Law by Michele Bowman
Ms. Bowman gets the dates wrong of the Domestic incident (Sept. 9th) and when O’Mara announced he wasn’t going to handle the divorce (Sept. 10th).
It is just plain wrong that a defendant cannot recover ALL costs to defend himself. This has never made any sense to me. Even Jody Arias’ defense was paid for by AZ. That is now approaching 2 million dollars.
This, along with the Brady violations, are serious flaws in our judicial system.
Twitter is blowing up about Senator Cruz tonight. I hope Minpin is happy about it. I’m not sure if she was supporting him or fighting him. Anyway, which ever way, I hope she is winning.
Good Night all. See you tomorrow. ♥ Dream sweet. ♥
Didn’t he briefly go on a rant and criticize the Tree at Dman’s site? IIRC, I once asked him why he did that. I think his response was that I misunderstood him. Someone recently posted that thread.
I am 1,000 times behind Senator Ted Cruz Nettles. He is listening to and fighting for me, my family, my neighbors, and all of us everyday Americans. He is the only one with a pair made of titanium. I was busy watching him on C-SPAN last night but, I am very happy to see the Twitter explosion, as long as it was positive. Yeeees, I finally have a high speed connection that allows me to see most videos. I will be having a funeral here soon for my dinosaur costume. LOL
YiPPPPeeeeEEE! Minpin got high-speed.
Your ability to keep up without seeing video was astonishing to me. Can’t wait to see what you come up with after watching statements and interviews and your reading of their body language.
Glad to hear your guy is winning. A majority on twitter are supporting Mr. Cruz.
Good for you!!!
minpin, I am thrilled that you finally got high speed. Your life will not be the same.
I have spent last hour or so reading the CTH Calling back all the Omara Fans first and updated threads. I still cant believe that SD and Stella too for that matter were being offended by most all that posted, asking for proof. SD changed what he was saying through out the comments (updated). I do get where Stella would state that we were all speculating about things and this was no diff, just that the Omara fans were wanting Proof because of SD saying about Omara. (Paraphrasing)
Here is a comment/reply between SD and I. I don’t think it is wrong to ask for proof, from Anyone. JMHO
arkansasmimi says:
April 6, 2013 at 4:25 am
Ok, dont beat me up too bad. I am not of the Legal thinking minds you gals/guys are. But, could it be possible that Omara was given the courtesy copies as Chump has been given, because he is GZ attny in the Criminal Case?
sundance says:
April 6, 2013 at 4:30 am
That’s what I initially thought too when I read the articles. However, then I read that he knew the specifics of the details surrounding the settlement – that took me back to research from last year and some prior information (some posted -some not). Then we rec’d confirmation that this was indeed his advice/decision.
kNOw Truth, kNOw Justice 
Nice picture.
I expect more books will be written and perhaps a documentary may be televised but I doubt seriously that we will ever know all of the facts about what happened. It would require a brave soul to expose everything the State of Florida did to maliciously and with malice aforethought, attempt to imprison an innocent man.
So far, NONE, not one, of the participants have even hinted mistakes were made. For these same people to continue to memorialize Trayvon Martin tells me that they have no intention whatsoever of ever acknowledging what they did as being “wrong.’
Permanent onuments were actually built to honor him, long before there was even a trial. They are not coming down. He will forever be a martyr while his parents and others ridicule us and line their pockets with the hard earned money of the poor folks who fell for this scheme.
Unanswered questions, Annette? Does anyone actually have all of the answers?
Even those that do have answers are not likely to talk.
Jordan, I agree with you completely. IMO the biggest problem is the people that continue to memorialize and line their pockets don’t believe what they’re doing is “wrong”. To them they are just taking advantage of a lucrative business venture. No moral qualms and no regrets for the people like George that are trampled in the process or for the lies that are perpetuated.
Consider who is responsible for this mess and what they COULD do stop it.. It is our leadership that has failed us and they did it intentionally. That is what is so tragic. NONE of those who have the power to do so have any intention whatsoever of ever resolving racial division. It is even more about money now than ever. This case just made it easier for future payoffs.
I agree with your comments.
I used to think that documentaries and biographies were all fact. Turns out they’re not. Fiction is often woven in to them to “make it more interesting”. So my guess is, if a documentary is done, is will be based on the scheme team and media narrative.
I think BET did a few long ago. LOL
http://www.bet.com/searchresults.html?q=trayvon+martin+special
This is a great topic, Annette, and hopefully will yield lots of good answers instead of even more wild speculation. Perhaps some. among us. have accurate up to date information.
Eric Holder said we’re cowards and don’t want to talk about race. Of course, we do want to, but not the kind of racism he is talking about, and attempts to have an honest conversation will be met with the obligatory cries of “racist!”. The guy who just wrote that book, the one who took Sundance’s work and made a book out of it (can’t remember his name!) – he told a lot of it, but many people won’t buy it because they made their minds up before seeing any evidence. Something that would help, I think, would be for someone to get confirmation of the facts – but that would mean someone asking TM and SF hard questions – and no one is going to do that. In any event, IMO someone in the media (TV or papers) would have to tell the truth, or it will never get in the face of those in our population who don’t want to seek it out.
Thx, Jordan. I have the book, but didn’t feel like firing up the kindle to find his name lol
exactly, Holder is disingenuous, his intention is to keep the “white oppressor” on the hook, not discuss the complications of race, class and power.Holder is just pulling rank, the worse ism yet.
From the last thread – I just don’t see MOM wanting a CNN contract as a conflict of interest. My guess is that he needed a win for the contract. So getting George off and getting a contract were both good outcomes of a lot of hard work. One wasn’t going to prevent the other from happening.
On the other hand, MOM got a lot of internet criticism for not taking on the whole BGI, for “just” wanting to get George off. Cracking the whole BGI system would have taken attention off of those few minutes around the event, diluting the thrust of the defense, and may have led to losing the case. That *would* have been a conflict of interest, IMO.
Strictly my opinion by I have a feeling we will see a whole new round of obstruction in the Ben Kruidbos trial as the scheme team and their coconspirators go to all new levels to prevent the public from seeing the real ugliness which was Trayvon Martin that the State of Florida tried to hide.
Yep Captain, I think your correct on that opinion. Gonna be a good one to watch from a far for sure. To be a fly on the wall in the mean time… WOW lol
I really feel no limit nigga is an appropriate name for Cupcake Fulton for all of her shameless shennanigans to bilk people out of money for her “foundations”
the latest delusions among the extremists:
Jesse mix has sent you a message
You can reply to this message by visiting your inbox.
To:Captain Long Schlong Silver 2
BREAKING NEWS!!!!! In Jenna’s 911 call you can hear Zimmerman saying Mark. Who is Mark? Zimmerman’s best friend Mark Osterman. More proof that an accomplice was with him. It is at 1:47 of Jenna’s 911 call. Thats the person talking after the gunshot not TM.
Jenna’s 911 call was the biggest piece of evidence in this case.
1. There are atleast two guns shots in the recording. One is 3-4 seconds into Jenna’s call also.
2. Jeremy says he warned me he’s shoot him.
3. At about 1:47 of the 911 call you hear Zimmerman say Mark one of the people with Zimmerman. He is likely the guy in the white T-shirt that witnesses saw.
4. You hear both Martin screaming for his life and even Zimmerman shouting fake helps at certain times.
Most Zimmerman supporters know Zimmerman is guilty which is why most of them make videos editing out and editing in parts of the reenactment at different parts of the dialogue to make themselves look right or just calling people idiots and delusional.
For me to believe Jeremy said being one made it scarier. The person who did that needs to show the parts before where Jeremy said why f shoot him with the same effects the pitch changing and slowing down for me to believe him. Because if why f shoot him is different then being one made it scarier is wrong its already more syllables. I can make anybody say anything somewhat close to what they actually said with Protools and Izotope sound software and even more if I dont have to lip sync while all TM supporters have done is raised the volume not add different audio effect changes like GZ supporters.
Is there a translation of that into English anywhere?
who wrote that total garbage? There is no reality in that comment at all !!!
Someone of low intelligence, trying to lead the totally ignorant.
🙂 Yep, sounds right
http://www.helpmesave300.com/
This is the website of the guy (ex NFL player, was special ed in school, family taught him to still work for a future, his recent ancestors also were involved in black civil rights and he knew Rosa Parks and the Kennedys) whose house was trashed by 300 high school kids. He’s gathering evidence and turning it over to the police for prosecution. But he’s also asking people to help him help these 300 turn their lives around. He sounds like a very interesting guy.
He asked for the kids to come help him fix his house. Only 4 kids and their parents showed up. A bunch of other parents threatened to sue him for posting their kids’ photos on the internet (because of course all these idiots took photos and tweeted about their little crime spree). I remember my father telling me when I was young that he’d fight for me if I were innocent in something, but if I ever did something wrong, I’d have to take responsibility, he wouldn’t “fix it” for me. Not too many parents are like that anymore I’m afraid.
If anyone goes to the link above, watch the video down the page made by his eldest daughter. She’s wise for her years – I’d say this ex-NFL guy and his wife did a good job with their kids. I especially like how she says something like, “is this what society has come to, that we no longer care about doing the right thing?”
I read there may be more to this story. The house is in foreclosure and it is believed by some that the students got “set up” by the football player who is looking to raise money now which will get the house out of foreclosure.
There are allegations the house was in a bad state prior to the kids entering it.
http://www.tmz.com/2013/09/22/brian-holloway-patriots-party-house-foreclosure-new-york/
regardless of what the owner’s errors are, teens regularly damage property and drink/drug excessively at parties these days. It is gross, unsafe and dysfunctional. At UCB there is very high rates of acquaintance rape while drunk, many incidents happen at frat parties. Normal kids with ethics and a conscience are just as critical of their indulgent, negative peers and frustrated by the lack of positive social options. There is an attitude or entitlement, narcissism and irresponsibility among young people these days. This is not just me the mom talking, my sons and their girlfriends/wife speak more harshly or their peers.
I wonder if that’s what the daughter addressed in the video – she said something about the dad built them a “basketball barn”, and told them to decorate it, so over the years all their visiting friends spraypainted inside of it with their name and the date.
Boy, I hope it’s not a sham.
Carol, this is OT but in case you missed it, I thought you’d be interested. Via Drudge, this very insightful New York Magazine article re: HRC.
http://nymag.com/news/features/hillary-clinton-2013-9/?mid=nymag_press
Best regards . . .
JB, thanks for the heads up, I hadn’t seen that. It looks to be 7 pages long, cool! 🙂
thanks!
Don’t know if there is anything to this. I seldom give any credence in anything I get from ANY media source to begin with.
George Zimmerman
You Can’t Divorce Me …
If You Can’t Find Me
9/22/2013 12:55 AM PDT
George Zimmerman’s divorce proceedings are on hold, TMZ has learned … because he’s gone Bigfoot on his wife.
The divorce can’t move forward until George is served with papers, but his estranged wife Shellie’s lawyer tells us, George is MIA.
http://www.tmz.com/2013/09/22/george-zimmerman-divorce-served-papers-wife-shellie/
I should have known hahaha Nettles beat me to the punch HOURS ago………on the last thread. Man, forget about the “getting up early” to get a jump on her……..ya gotta go without sleep altogether. The gal is a whiz!
But then, that’s not news to anyone. 😉 You go girl
♥
Posted: 6:21 AM
Last Updated: 1 hour and 16 minutes ago
By: Associated Press
TALLAHASSEE, fla. – A small group of protesters upset by the acquittal of George Zimmerman say they’re returning to the state Capitol.
Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/state/trayvon-martin-protestors-to-return-to-tallahassee#ixzz2fimEC3Lt
“The group plans to return Monday, repeating their request for Gov. Rick Scott to call a special session and ask legislators to overhaul the state’s self-defense laws.”
Uhh–self-defense has been part of the law since the beginning. This case was classic self-defense and it ain’t goin’ away any time soon. Big waste of time from non-contributing members of society–part of Obama’s 47%’ers.
Must be nice to be independently wealthy and be able to travel and camp out and sing songs and hold hands and protest….. especially when you didn’t even learn the facts about what you’re protesting
Not sure why Charles Blow carries so much influence with Anderson Cooper. But the megaphone is squarely in Mr. Blow’s hand and his opinion of Zimmerman appears to be based on his experiences as a black man. Therefore, his opinions have nothing to do with a man Mr. Blow doesn’t even know. The comment about talking with his son about the pace to walk was insane.
https://twitter.com/YancyFaith/status/382142850432913409
AC360 does not allow comments, they censor content in support of the truth. Blowhard is an apt description, even his NYTimes photo is condescending.
His kids could not survive my hood without their nanny driving them to and fro. Blow is black first and foremost. So many have exposed themselves are racial relativist.
He’s tweeting an interview Robert Jr. gave 3 days after the verdict.
Some people are a little slow in their ability to process information… 😀
On April 5th Mr. Crump filed a confidential redacted settlement between the Travyon Foundation and the Home Owners Association (HOA) with the court hearing Zimmerman’s criminal case. A little after midnight on April 6th, Sundance was advising he had insider information that O’Mara has been involved with this settlement. Let’s deconstruct how Sundance arrived at that theory at about 1:05 am on April 6th.
Rumor Deconstructed – Mr. O’Mara was involved in HOA settlement – Rumor Deconstructed
April 5th
10:02PM
First Sundance is thinking the settlement just occurred recently, and thinks it has something to do with what he’s about to expose of Trayvon’s records. He thinks the Martin family got frightened about what was about to be revealed by the treehouse and hurried a settlement. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/05/cashing-in-trayvon-family-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-trashcan-1000000-00-extortion-success/#comment-363618
11:16PM
It was the Orlando Sentinel report that said MOM knew about an attempted settlement in February that got his wheels turning http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/05/cashing-in-trayvon-family-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-trashcan-1000000-00-extortion-success/#comment-363692
April 6th
12:00 Midnight
Sundance wonders who would have paid if there was a settlement? He concludes it must have been the prior insurance company (which is Liberty Mutual although he doesn’t say it here) http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/05/cashing-in-trayvon-family-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-trashcan-1000000-00-extortion-success/#comment-363744
12:15AM
Sundance tries to rationalize how MOM knew of a settlement – Sounds like he still hasn’t heard from the “insider” http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/05/cashing-in-trayvon-family-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-trashcan-1000000-00-extortion-success/#comment-363768
12:21 AM
In response to “Doodahdaze’s” inquiry about whether Mr. O’Mara could be party to the settlement, Sundance replied “Bingo ya big lug” http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/05/cashing-in-trayvon-family-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-trashcan-1000000-00-extortion-success/#comment-363778
12:49AM – About 35 minutes later, Sundance has “insider information” and reveals the settlement amount was close to 2 million and Liberty Mutual paid. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/05/cashing-in-trayvon-family-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-trashcan-1000000-00-extortion-success/#comment-363815
12:59AM – Rick Madigan (who I believe to be Sundance) posts at Diwataman’s blog a shout-out for Jello. He needs a positive reason why O’Mara would be involved in the settlement he can’t think of one. http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/6280/#comment-9126 – worthy to note Rick is not posting at the Treehouse at this time. That starts on the new thread 2 hours later. Rick/Sundance, Sundance/Rick. The new thread is inviting posters back to give an optimist reason on how this could be positive in any way. Rick was doing it 1 hour before Sundance posted the thread!
1:04AM – Sundance is going to be sick as he has confirmed the involvement of MOM in the settlement. No evidence to back-up claim is made which leads to drama. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/05/cashing-in-trayvon-family-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-trashcan-1000000-00-extortion-success/#comment-363826
1:05AM – O’Mara’s convicted http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/05/cashing-in-trayvon-family-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-trashcan-1000000-00-extortion-success/#comment-363827
Shortly after 2:00 a.m. a new thread is composed and posted on the Treehouse blog http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/06/calling-back-all-the-mark-omara-fans-questions-for-you-serious/#more-61210
2:19 a.m. Sundance posts first on the new thread accusing O’Mara and asking for others to provide what legitimate reason could there be to explain Mr. O’Mara’s involvement. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/06/calling-back-all-the-mark-omara-fans-questions-for-you-serious/#comment-363883
How likely is it that an insider who has been sitting on this information since November 2012, revealed it to Sundance and he/she watched him rationalize out a few bits of information he had between 12:15am and 12:49 am? Those bits of information were: a) That O’Mara seemed to know in February a settlement was attained and b) Travellers insurance sued to not be party to it and had a limit of $1 million.
3:12 AM – DebfrmHell is questioning the source of these rumors and Sundance reveals it’s “insider information” but common sense tells you how it could be figured out he tells her. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/06/calling-back-all-the-mark-omara-fans-questions-for-you-serious/#comment-363932
3:34 A.M. – Now it’s Sundance on his own blog calling for Jello’s input. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/06/calling-back-all-the-mark-omara-fans-questions-for-you-serious/#comment-363961
4:38 a.m. – Sundance using the name of Rick Madigan posts on Diwataman’s blog inviting commentators that have been banned to come back and let’s all discuss this as a group. http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/6280/#comment-9144 – one sample, he asked more.
People kept pressing for evidence of these allegations, Sundance’s response was it was “insider information” and shouldn’t be questioned. Commentators were banned and others ridiculed for not believing the allegations on blind faith.
What do you think? Did Sundance really have insider information or did he rationalize it with a few bits of information?
I revealed later this day (April 6th), my 2 month suspicion that Rick Madigan was actually Sundance.
It should be noted Mr. O’Mara gave a statement to a reporter on April 8th denying knowing any details of the settlement. http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/04/trayvon-martins-parents-settle-with-homeowners-assn/
Rationalize with a few bits of information, in other words, SD speculates plenty. This is what got me in trouble on their website, I was never rude, I just commented on the indulging in speculations which supposedly conflicted with their stated purpose. The world is full of hypocrites. What makes this blog
so very refreshing is the lack of censorship and hypocrites, renews my faith in people.
O’Mara did an awesome job, I happen to think West is fantastic too, I identify more with his irritation at the dishonest ones. O’Mara is media savvy, which is some way is not necessarily a compliment when you consider the media is in the business of mudslinging and sensationalism, not journalism.
you should be a prosecutor!
Sundance was wrong in those comments. I never took any of that stuff very seriously because it looked like flawed reasoning.
I agree with Cassandra, that O’Mara did an awesome job, as did Don West.
I am only inviting friendly discussion, not starting an argument, but who is to blame for the fiasco at the bond hearing about George’s assets, and in particular, the Pay Pal account? Shellie was charged and sentenced but was it really her fault? Could George have intervened beforehand? What was Mom’s responsibility?
The consequences were severe financially and totally unnecessary. Many of gave us money, in the end, to a bonding company, not George… about $100,000 more or less that can never be recovered. Think about how George could use that now.
I never understood what happened with the continuance, if a request for one was actually filed. Does anyone know why MOM did not pursue that action?
I remember reading the actual first bond agreement, but I searched hi and lo for the new bond agreement without success after SD mentioned that there were some irregularities in it and seemed to imply that it benefited MOM. So, IDK. I did read that the money was returned, which would be extremely unusual, but never saw proof of that. It was on a thread in which SD answered all questions but maybe he made a mistake in saying that.
At the end of the day, someone was responsible for what Lester did and I do not think it was just him or the state.
Now that Shellie’s case has been resolved, we can have a discussion thread about this topic.
Give me a few days to dig for some facts to help get us started in discussing it and I’ll post a thread for this topic.
George/Mark/Shawn/Don – I would appreciate any light you can shed on this. Please post here or email me at nettles@bell.net
If you guys have any appreciation for what the online community tried to help you with, help us now in getting some answers to our questions. Thank you.
Jordan –
I am still somewhat confused.
However, the fact that Shellie took a plea arrangement would seem to clear MOM. Why on earth would she take the rap to protect someone else?
I do not know which is why I invited friendly discussion. Do you really think Shellie intentionally lied, knowing the truth would be revealed in only a matter of days? Everyone in that courtroom knew about the PayPal account, didn’t you? Why would ANYONE try to conceal it?
No one tried to conceal the account. The judge talked about it, the prosecutor talked about it and O’Mara talked about it on April 20th. So that it existed was known by everyone. No one appeared to be too excited about getting to know its balance prior to April 20th.
Shellie acknowledged she knew about it but was coy is giving an estimate to how successful it had been. In her interview with Christi, she said she could rationalize it all she liked, but she knew she was lying when she was questioned about the balance.
Kelly Sims said in a presser after her hearing, that Shellie was not told she’d be testifying about finances at the bond hearing. She hadn’t been prepared for it.
That told me there was no scheme to get her to lie to the court. I think that when the questions came up, she made a split second decision to evade answers given the behavior her and George had been demonstrating. Talking in code, moving it out of his accounts. I’m not even sure her and George planned it. She just thought it best to hide it as long as she could so she deflected to a person who wasn’t readily available.
Given that George and Shellie made this known within a day of GZ getting out of jail, tells me they knew they needed to make it right. Who knows, this could be one of the issues causing their divorce. Her decision to lie put GZ back in jail. Did she do it with his prior approval?
Looking at the questions that O’Mara was asking, there is no way he knew the balance of the account or he wouldn’t have asked her those questions. He thought she was shoring up what their bank records revealed. O’Mara submitted their March 2012 bank statements as proof they were indigent.
Looking at how each party behaved after the bond hearing, I think Shellie made a split decision when asked on the topic. George waited until he got out to find out where exactly the account stood. You may recall that Scott told him one figure that Shellie later told him was made up to make him feel better.
I do believe as George sat there that day, he was confused about how much had come in. He knew there was strong support but Scott and Shellie were telling him 2 different figures.
O’Mara’s comments after suggested that George and Shellie hadn’t been completely honest with him and there is a phone call between Scott and George that confirms they made a conscious decision to keep the balance to themselves for the time being.
I’m sure they didn’t realize how that would affect the bond hearing. They were more concentrated on the indigent hearing and what should be revealed.
While I do think GZ talked to O’Mara about a large balance he tried to transfer but couldn’t, O’Mara told reporters he does not recall GZ saying $37K. He’d have remembered that.
I’ll get working on the thread for all this in the next couple of days.
IDK, I still think Shellie should have been thoroughly prepared in her answers. What attorney does not do that?
If there were any doubts about anything, the hearing should have been postponed. This was hugely important. It decided George’s fate from that point on until the trial. How much money was wasted needlessly? Think about the account of how they lived on the run, even hiding in a trailer in the woods. None of that should have happened if it is true. Unless Shellie is totally stupid and extremely naive, I have a hard time blaming her.
It can’t be both ways. Either she was prepared by being told to lie or she decided to evade on her own.
We are to believe that O’Mara asked her questions that she was told to lie to?
Not.A.Chance.
I hear you but why would she lie?
I’d argue she didn’t lie. She wasn’t as helpful as she could have been.
We still don’t know why they had to take money out of the pay pal account, put it in GZ and then put it in her’s and Dawn’s. If we knew the answer to why they thought they should do that, we may know the answer to why they wanted to hide the fact they were getting this support.
Not even GZ’s dad knew about it. After the hearing was over he took Dawn outside (according to his book) and asked her if there was enough for bond and she said there was. So he became confused when George was asking his parents and grandparents to mortgage everything to pay the full bond so he didn’t have to use a bondsman.
O’Mara said he spent 36 hours trying to talk them out of that strategy and just come up with $15,000 to pay the bondsman. The bondsman helped them out and took only $5K and at the time of the June 1st revocation hearing, $10K was still owing.
Why all that when they had $130K at their disposal?
IDK.. It’s why I asked for more discussion. I will take your word but something does not seem right to me.
Jordan –
“I still think Shellie should have been thoroughly prepared in her answers. What attorney does not do that? –
“Attorney preparation” covers a lot of ground.
MOM might have simply told his client, ” Look, you are going to be asked a bunch of technical questions about the accounts. Just tell the truth.”
If GZ or SZ were keeping something from MOM, they would have to ask him about a possible problem in upcoming testimony. Did MOM ask them, if there was something that they were worried about in upcoming testimony?
As with many aspects of this case, we are not privy to the details that would shed a clear answer. We can only look at what transpired before us and draw some logical conclusions, while acknowledging that a different set of preliminary facts could compel a different conclusion.
I hear you.
I think at this point if anyone considers MOM as a non aggressive advocate the paypal issue will always be an issue about if and why someone lied or not.
For me, I do consider the jailhouse discussions. But I also consider the events prior to that week in why they tried to hide the money. Someone advised them what to do. It was not MOM. If it was MOM the money trail would not been noticed.
I just shake my head at the family members and/or friends of George Zimmerman who got a twisted view of O’Mara.
They actually worked against Mark O’Mara in getting Zimmerman acquitted. Like George didn’t have enough mountains against him, he needed his supporters divided and being asked to not donate.
As far as I know, that only occurred at one site, the treehouse. While they would like to think they were the be all and end all of support, they were not. I talked with lots of people online who fully supported the efforts to get GZ acquitted.
If I was the defendant, I’d have jumped online and said my piece about supporting my lawyer. That he didn’t and the family was luke-warm in their praise and thanks is curious.
It’s not a surprise O’Mara jumped ship, if in fact, he did.
I can’t imagine what O’Mara/West/Truett went through to coral this gang through that trial.
Well, it was only after I said on the Crump gets paid thread at Dmans did Treeper Admins. start publicly saying it was not about GZ. They sure the hell went head first into the barrel, especially with some who were claiming to be family sources. Just as bad as the Scheme Team. This is why I personally always avoided the MSM and color coordination inserted in the case. This case had NOTHING to do with either but fighting it did make it worse IMHO. It was filler. I think we could have used this as an example more on an attack on self defense, political corruption, and more so told the gov. “hey, go ahead, try to take away rights and we will back the lil man.” Instead even supporters were divided.Just because I avoided it does not mean I was blind to it.
Some were just divided on who to go after first. Now, it is happening again. Some I realize now… just are not ready for the fight.
YOU: Some I realize now… just are not ready for the fight.
Which fight should we be ready to fight, Danny? Serious question.
From my position, there are many battles to be fought that do not even involve George, his family, friends and attorneys. This case has “touched” on more issues than any other one that I have ever read about and all of these issues are so controversial so as to make it clear how divided we are as Americans. As long as folks remain so fixed in their views, the fight can never be “won,” although winning is not the correct word. IMO, the best we can hope for are peaceful stalemates.
In retrospect, do you think the State ever really had a chance of convicting George?
While I know that juries are unpredictable, there simply was NO evidence to convict him. The emotional pleas by the state to convict him were simply that, and while they apparently did influence some jurors to try to find a way to convict him, they could NOT do it because no facts supported it.
Maybe either of us could have successfully defended George. LOL.
Now that the case is over, I do find it curious that there actually does appear that O’Mara was not fully endorsed by George and his friends and family. I hardly think the CTH caused that discord.
I think there is a lot more to this than we know, so I will wait to see, as usual, instead of pointing fingers.
JFP said that MOM dragged his feet in getting her family’s property returned to them and West had to intervene. That is significant to me as was his “PAY ME” comment as reported by Matt Gutman on ABC news when MOM was asked for his advice to George. If that is true, then it sounds serious to me. I have searched and cannot find that interview so IDK.
However, isn’t George, in effect, paying him? How much is his CNN contract worth? And what will he earn from a book? This may turn out to be the most lucrative thing ever for him. Right now, he may be more widely known than any other attorney in the US.
If the state had managed to get the “child abuse” instruction the jury may well have picked it as a compromise verdict. West seemed to think they had that planned for some time.
No sensible person would have ever accepted a conviction for such a charge, and it would have been overturned post haste as would any other conviction unless the DCA was fixed.
Jordan,
I do not need retrospect to know the outcome. Because I truly do believe in the justice system and due process.
I do not feel that a client or an attorneys job is to endorse each other either. And you are right, I do not feel the Treehouse caused any discord other then amoungst supporters to tell you the truth. I do feel family/ friend relations were already struggling.
As far as MOM getting paid? Lets be honest… who else would have touched GZ with even a ten ft. pole? SD and I can agree on that. I nor does anyone else have the ability to review the private agreement between client and atty. I will not speculate. It is as sacred as taking communion!
What becomes of MOM or GZ after the fact is due to their own consequense and decisions. I feel it best the parties split.
In the end an attorney is a legal advisor. It is up to a client to chose his/ her atty. and to follow the legal advice.
I do not believe SDs claims that GZ had no control over the money. If that helps you any. We can discuss the legal reasons why, if you would like. Legal funds are not new.
I have not heard anything about proprety not being returned to the family and that West needed to intervene. So I can not comment. At this point I think we have determined JFP is not as close to the case as she had let on.
The only other atty. who thus far has shown they are MORE lucrative is Ben Crump!
I am certain that I read the way the defense fund was set up was unprecedented and it was not at the CTH.
To this day, I still have questions. Have you seen a certified final accounting? I never even saw the terms of the trust… who controlled it, for example.. so it was subject to justified criticism in my opinion.
Somebody put up the extra money necessary for the second bond. It was MOM who arranged that….
I never took Sundance seriously on any of that stuff.
With regard to what Shellie said at the hearing, I have no idea about who told her to say that she did not know how much was in the account. If you look closely at what she was asked, she answered the question that was asked, and she told them to contact her brother in law. Lester was wrong because he did not follow up that question. BDLR deliberately did not follow up on that response. The trap was set when Shellie denied knowing how much was likely to be in the account.
I have not seen any evidence to point the finger at MOM, and no evidence to point the finger at GZ. I could be wrong on that score, but it still seems to me that Shellie made the decision regarding that infromation. She did in fact have some idea about how much was in the account but technically she could not tell BDLR how much was in the account “right now” unless she was using a computer.
@Nettles, good grief. Two points.
#1. You completely overlook the conversations in August/Sept 2012 about the initial HOA lawsuit (Travellers) which we wrote about before the Orlando Sentinel broke their initial story. Actually, it was TCTH sending Stutzman/Weiner an email about their avoiding the Trayvon Family financial interests that led to the Orlando Sentinel writing their story. [*Note* Weiner was pissed off – his pride was severely wounded]
The documents about the initial insurance agency, which were filed in court and became public record, were provided by one of the sources who was directly involved in the discussions. <—- The same person (source) the following year who accurately outlined the O'Mara advice to the HOA to settle which you are writing about. D'oh.
… And yes, in 2012 Mark O'Mara received a copy (to his office) of the exact same filing Crump placed with the court, which showed the certified mailing of the copy to the O'Mara law firm, and later requested redaction to. So was O'Mara telling the truth when he said he had no knowledge of a settlement ?
#2. I'll send you an email (which you can post if you like – matters not to me) of the last correspondence between Rick Madigan and the Treehouse. You are wrong in all of your conclusions and assumptions. Period.
Thanks. One minor point, try not to be so condescending when talking with me or others here. It’s not necessary. Please behave like an adult.
Your D’oh statement was unnecessary.
We’d all love to see Rick’s last email. Thanks!
@Nettles…. “try not to be so condescending”….
That’s RICH !
LOL
♥
Sundance,
#1. Actually, the Scheme Team planted those HOA stories back in March 2012.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-no-hoa-lawsuit-20120324_1_civil-lawsuit-neighborhood-watch-nabj
It was in August 2012 Travelers Casualty and Surety Co. filed a federal lawsuit asking a judge to clarify its liability in the case, but that suit was dropped in November 2012. This is when CTH really started discussing the settlement.
Even if Crump had filed paperwork (which he did not) to the *criminal docket* back in 2012 it still does not prove MOM had ANY hand in any civil negotiations with the pay off. Which IS what is in question here. Not that MOM had knowledge there were ongoing negotiations. You claimed he had a hand in the settlement. Not that he knew they were in the works. Everyone knew by August 2012 the Scheme Team was looking for a pay day. It was public record.
Sundance IF MOM had a copy of the filing why did he have to ask the court for a copy and an unredacted one at that?
In July 2012 there was this thread
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/07/14/hoa-extortion-settlement/ – Posted by Ad Rem
On August 6, 2012 there was this thread
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/08/06/now-this-gets-interesting-sybrina-d-fulton-and-the-hoa-being-sued-by-travelers-ins-for-contractinsurance-issue/
One of the commenters at the treehouse, who went by Kathyca, had extensive knowledge in the insurance industry. She would comment every now and again about researching looking for a settlement and would explain to us what the HOA filing meant. Here’s an example.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/08/06/now-this-gets-interesting-sybrina-d-fulton-and-the-hoa-being-sued-by-travelers-ins-for-contractinsurance-issue/#comment-173235
When Crump filed the settlement with the court, Sundance asked her why she would cringe if O’Mara had anything to do with the settlement and she explains it here: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/07/a-positive-perspective-on-the-omara-involvement-with-the-hoa-settlement-in-the-zimmerman-case-guest-post/#comment-365162
Sundance posting that O’Mara did have involvement, with no proof, leaves me wondering if one day we’ll hear about O’Mara suing Sundance.
As I said in my very first public conversations to Sundance on Diwatamans blog back in April, SD is a spec of dust. The guy would not even let me respond on his blog on a thread where he addressed me. That speaks volumes about his ability to be open minded. The admins. thought I was David. Lol. Did not affect me any.
Maybe that is why they banned me. But, it takes a hard head to actually ban someone from responding to thread you wrote WANTING a response!
As I look back at that tgread someone did write a fact vs. opinion on all things MOM related to SDs claimed “facts”. In order to sue SD he would have had to affect MOMs buisness. He was attempting to but failed only because 99% of us know it was not fact but opinion. Here is what someone posted. MOM would never waste his time!
Danny –
Thanks for reposting that link to diwataman.
It really clarifies matters a lot.
Did Sundance ever reply to it or to challenge the facts contained therein over at CTH?
No.
I did not see that he did on that thread but back then, SD would not have done that anyway. It is only recently that he has ventured outside of the Tree as far as I know.
Thanks, Danny. Are you OpUsSoldiers?
You, too, like SD are an enigma to me. I do NOT mean that in any kind of derogatory manner. The two of you have much more in common than you are likely to admit. I doubt that anyone of us here, know who either of you really are. A bio would help. LOL.
That was an interesting thread at DMan’s. As I was reading it, and other similar threads during that time frame, it became clear that a “certain” group of folks, still active today, were questioning the changes that had occurred at the CTH. That same group not only continues to question SD and the CTH, but also everything else about this case. I was very vocal about sitting on the sidelines until I heard everything, and to a great extent, I remain that way today. I am not from Missouri but SHOW ME. For those who have criticized me for doing that and also for changing my opinions, I can only say that I am a true truth seeker.
Not long ago, I trashed almost all of my case files, which included quite a few things that SD and others had said, so I have no reference points to add to this conversation except to read and make comments based upon my sketchy memory. It is amusing now to see what we all said back then. Many of us were brand new at this blogging business but, boy, I think we caught on quick even if it meant a few “bans” along the way.
No I was not OpUsSoldiers..wish I was . I think I know who it was though…lol. In my early days as I was rounding em up there were family members and friends of mine I gave links and info too. I had posted stuff privetly so this person must bunched together what I was about to do @Dmans. I spoke very indepth with my friends and family about this case. I have family who live in Florida, I once lived there too. and I have many many family who own firearms. My side is also involved in politics. So…. I have a lot of support.
So kind of you to see what SD and I have in common. I do believe his take on certain things did draw me to CTH. I was very involved in Fast and Furious and Bengazi research. Research had led me to TH.
Prior though I hit the political scene many years ago at a school board meeting. After thatI was asked to speak at many, many, luncheons, meetings etc. But I do not do public speaking.
After this I became an education advocate for special education, private and now public K–12 online education. I am more moving towards parents removing their children from traditional public schooling into a homeschooling, or a semi–public educational enviorment. I have worked with specialists across the country on education and education law. My goal is educating parents and the public in these alternatives. Because one size does not fit all.
Many of the educational needs of these kids requires one to know the rights afforded to free education or FAPE. Some laws are federal, some laws local, and some laws are board/district related. It got me involved in the legal processes of administration law. I am working towards a degree in Alternative Dispute Resolution. Funny thing is it has nothing to do with education!
I am a firm believer in home schooling. I did home school my youngest daughter in certain subjects while she was in a Montesori school.
She lost her Mom when she was ten, and although I raised her alone, therapy became the most important issue. She required all of my time and I gave up both of my businesses. There followed several difficult years for her.
However, I am proud to say that I was successful in preventing the state from requiring any immunizations or vaccinations of any kind. I did later get her a tetanus shot which I found to be safe. That stance is common among those who home school their children. She will be finishing her degree soon and still never received any shots. She read a couple of books that her Mom had left for her and now knows as much about shots as anyone… Death by Injection.. and The Poisoned Needle. Both are now hard to find.
I applaud you for what you are doing, Danny.
So of course I would be drawn to a 17 yr. old who has Trayvon Martins background. It has always been my suspicion that he was troubled. Florida juked some stats. His Mother got threatned with Children Protective Services and she shipped him off to Brandi Greene a juvi probation officer in order to avoid a CPS case after the school was required to report her for illegal absences. So I do know SD is wrong there. TM was NOT Baker Acted. It was a CPS investigation for truancy!
From the tenor of your reply, Danny, I take it that the CPS business, is not logical supposition on your part, but grounded in fact.
It is grounded in the fact they can make a claim any claim and you are then stuck in civil court because of a mandatory reporter!
Hooson, you do understand that mandatory reporters can report you as a parent for a job they failed to do, such as educational neglect? Reporting does not require proof just a suspicion and anyone can make a report. But mandates require schools to due so in order to make no child left behind.
I confess to miniscule knowledge if any on the topic of mandatory reporting and defer to your knowledge.
Lol
It is not personal knowledge just legal knowledge
The schools who are juking it are not inner cities anymore. How could CPS stay alive? They focus on small schools and family feud reporting. They shove kids on drugs and alternative systems which equal more public funding. CPS is a buisness. So is public schooling. Public schooling is based on property tax. Mandating something that should require more responsibility in this day and age…. Come on.
I seriously doubt it. CPS services are overwhelmed in every state. In general, enforcing mandatory education laws is the business of the district, parental neglect can be charged and fined by the DA.
http://www.fldoe.org/faq/default.asp?ALL=Y&Dept=107
7. How are schools required to enforce regular school attendance?
Florida law (Section 1003.26, Florida Statutes) specifies steps for enforcement of regular school attendance. It is the responsibility of the school district superintendent to enforce school attendance of all children who are subject to compulsory school age requirements. The responsibility includes:
Develop policies and procedures to ensure that schools respond in a timely manner to each unexcused absence, or absence for which the reason is unknown.
Contact the home for every unexcused absence or absence for which the reason is unknown, to obtain parent justification for the absence.
Evaluate each justification and, based on district policy, determine whether the absence is excused or unexcused; if excused, allow the student to make up assigned work without academic penalty.
Track excused and unexcused absences.
Identify and refer students who may be developing a pattern of nonattendance to the school child study team for intervention services.
Schedule a meeting with certain identified parents to discuss their child’s attendance.
Implement prevention and intervention strategies to address truancy and attendance issues as required for drivers’ licenses and related requirements for habitual truants.
Send a notice to the superintendent of schools and to the district home education contact regarding patterns of nonattendance for specific students.
Refer habitual truancy cases to the case staffing committee and/or child-in-need- of-services provider for assistance.
They are overwhelmed because they MUST investigate EVERY call. There is a priority list. If it is a Mandated reported and the reported just has to suspect abuse that is first.
So lets say Cassandra I find out who you are. I can be your kids teacher. She comes to school smelling like smoke. I personally feel second hand smoke is child abuse (hey LA does) so I report you because your kid is harldl in school. Things I suspect since you smoke around your kid. Hell CPS studies everything. They come in see an ashtray have you sign over all medical records and see your kid had 10 ear infections in 9 months. Bet I can find a study to prove you caused it honey! Bet I can send you to TASC and make you an alcoholic because when your ex has your kid you drink with the girls. Bet then I can then even make the fact your kid was home with an ear infection actually that you are are just too drunk to get up to send your kid to school.
By the time it is all done. I just did a fishing expedition into HIPPA legally because I had a suspision. Truth is cassandra. I was just a mandated reporter and hated you smoking around your kid. But theybhad to come check you out.
What exactly is habitually truant? Could not a school district not be providing FAPE to cause it?
There is FEDERAL law Cassandra.
Parents have the ability to appeal.
Don’t rely on the attendance office and/or computerized truancy notices.
B. Have you provided FAPE?
1. Is the student’s nonattendance related to the student’s disability? If the student’s absenteeism relates or could relate to the student’s disability, the District has an obligation to convene an IEPC and develop an IEP that addresses the issue.
2. Does nonattendance relate to the District’s failure to provide appropriate programs and services?
a. Nonattendance may be in protest to an inappropriate placement, programs, and/or services.
b. This often correlates with a parent request for residential placement due to alleged school phobia, depression, or extremely low self esteem.
c. In the case of In re Child With Disabilities 19 IDELR 448 (SEA VT 1992), a parent of an eighteen (18) year old student with learning disabilities and ADD requested a residential program for the student after his third unsuccessful attempt to complete the ninth grade, in large part due to his excessive absences. The court held that the student’s poor attendance record was “a manifestation and consequence of his handicapping condition combined with ineffective programming”. The court concluded that the district’s IEP failed to provide FAPE and order the district to develop an appropriate IEP for providing for residential placement at public expense for one (1) year.
We have an inquest going on right now in Toronto that is an absolutely horrible case. I was indirectly involved in it after one child died.
The grandparents were given authority over 4 of their grandkids by the Catholic Children’s Aid. Background checks on them weren’t done, had they done it, those monsters never would have been given those kids.
One child, Jeffrey Baldwin, was starved to death and he died Nov. 30, 2002. My sister’s sister-in-law became a foster mother to his 3 siblings immediately following taking the kids from the home and arresting the grandparents.
The 3 kids spent Christmas with my family where I met them for the first time. It was absolutely heartbreaking!! I cry whenever I think of those kids, as I am right now. Our society, my society failed these kids and their brother Jeffrey.
Last week, their father testified at the inquest and yesterday, his mother failed to show up at the inquest (it was her parents who abused and neglected her kids).
http://o.canada.com/2013/09/23/jeffrey-baldwin-inquest-the-father-who-couldnt-raise-alarm-for-emaciated-son-stepped-up-to-fix-floor/
The kids developed severe behavior problems and ended up being separated and raised in different homes. I hope to get an update on how they are doing later this week.
At one time, I read quite lot about different types of abuse, how it is passed on and wondered if there was a solution. As far as I know, there is no way to “cure” abuse and prevent it from reoccurring. That is why convicted abusers are treated so differently after serving their sentences. They are excluded from living in society without severe restrictions.
This is a heartbreaking story but it is not uncommon. Sadly, I have known many others who have been abused. I have no novel ideas about how to stop it.
Nettles,
I have seen and been a part of so many cases at a point you become numb. But for anyone to believe the CPS in America even with back ground checks in foster care and mandated reporting to hail the process in removing parental rights for this syestem is disgusting.
Look up how many cases against CPS that have been filed in this country. Why are they overwhelmed? Why do they fail?
Cassandra,
CPS is Band aiding Bullshit. Does not work does it? I fought mandated reporters for parents who had kids that were rufsed IEPS. Kids that were placed in homes and mental facilities for minor things. The district then took parents to court for non compliance interm with compulsory attendence laws. The kids eventially quit school. It was too much stress on the family. Program here program there. Check in here. Check in there. The parents sign them out to get rid of CPS. CPS is overwhelmed because they focus not on abuse but what keeps the system alive. In the interm abused kids who need their help die. 10% more from the homes they remove them from and these courts are involved in die.! Most times these kids are abused because they were removed for “risks” while the family was getting court ordered CPS services. Look at the stats. I kid you not.
Even so, he slipped through the cracks and was destined to become a thug without true intervention. I actually have a lot of compassion for him. It was not his fault that he was utterly ignored. He become what he was allowed to become absent any realistic discipline or guidance. NO ONE was ever there for him. Such is the case for many teenagers. Parents continue to do this unabated because there are no consequences to them. The tragedy is watching their children get sentenced to prison or pay the ultimate price while the parents cry out in anguish. Even when that happens, the parents show no remorse for their failures and blame someone or something else. The erosion of traditional family values is our greatest failure.
I did not realize how active I was back then. I really liked Kathyca. She was straight up.
I appreciated her information also. She was very clear in her writing and easy to understand.
We could use her legal expertise here. Has she ever posted at the site?
No she hasn’t posted here. I wasn’t able to go to the treehouse and ask people to participate here. So unless word of mouth go around, a number of contributors don’t know this discussion takes place.
This was another blow to team Zimmerman. He had so little voices in his corner and together we could have been way louder than we were divided.
Together, we could have gotten the media and the politicians attention. I wonder how they would have reacted if O’Mara and West said, no we got plenty of money. People have looked through the discovery and have created an online group that sees this case for what it is…a show trial.
He was a product of his enviorment indeed Jordon.
As a parent I do express sorrow for his parents. I could never imagine losing one of my children even if they caused it. Kids are sometimes reckless even if they were brought up in good homes. But even more reason to be diligent as a PARENT, not a friend. This case should have been something the black community sat back and thought “What are WE doing wrong?” “Are WE teaching our youth to be a victim?” ” What should WE change?”
In the end I hope the lesson has not failed his parents. Especially since it appears they want to keep his memory alive. Sure, when our loved ones die we forgive many of their mistakes, we look past their mistakes, but I do not believe it helps to heal by blaming everyone else for something they or you could have changed. And it also is dangerous to make excuses in this case.
I know GZ is in constant termoil over taking someones life.
I am sure it helps him none if we minimize the decsion he had no choice to make. If things could have been different I am sure the outcome would have been as well.
I dislike HOW these parents took on the death of their son, and who they chose to find what they may have needed to accept it. But in the end I see them as victims of the system as well. Willing victims.
They too chose to be victims. So that is where my sympathy ends. Money would have been the last thing on my mind if I had wanted justice!
LoL After Omara making his comments, I believe it was during opening statements re the pinky ring, I have long wondered about many many things between SD and MOM. I think there is a REAL BACK STORY there, and would love to hear. Maybe Mark Omara will tell it in his book 🙂
I read through all of this but did not see my initial question after which I was so unjustly criticized. I think it was the first question.// Was it deleted?
LOL. You are reading the wrong thread. This isn’t in response to anyone.
It’s my shining a light on the awakening that took place at the treehouse in the early morning hours of April 6th.
OK.. I am embarrassed. Sorry.
Nettles,you have some Sherlock Holmes in you!
As far as all that stuff, it just never made any sense that MOM would be involved in that. No sense at all. Unless you’re someone who hates MOM. That hatred always seemed like something personal to me. I have no evidence. No insider information. Just my take on it. lol
You said: Nettles,you have some Sherlock Holmes in you!
Her next project is to finally reveal the truth about the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations.
Not until she uncovers the real Rick Madigan!
That is her true test. LOL.
To the allegation made yesterday that O’Mara wanted a trial from the beginning to get a CNN contract and that this strategy was revealed in June/July 2012 to Sundance’s inquiry of court personnel and people who knew Mr. O’Mara, I point to Mr. O’Mara’s August 13th presser in which he announced the defense would be seeking a Writ to get Lester off the case and he answered questions about his August 9th posting to seek a self-defense immunity hearing.
The legal team posted on their website their plans to motion for an Immunity Hearing on August 9th.
http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/42-there-will-be-a-stand-your-ground-hearing-in-the-george-zimmerman-case
Where on the treehouse can you find evidence in August that Sundance knew that to be false? I’ve searched the threads in the 2 weeks after the August 9th posting and can find no evidence that Sundance thinks that’s a lie, or mention of a CNN contract.
LOL, in my mind (as I see the real world), I picture Judge Nelson picking up the phone after reading the legal team’s post above and saying “Uh uh Mark, you’re not putting this off on me. Get out there and defend your client and prove it was self defense in court!” Sorry I couldn’t resist 🙂
Judge Nelson didn’t know any of this affected her until August 30th. The court of appeal granted the Writ to remove Lester on August 29th.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/09/23/where-world-george-zimmerman
Thanks for that reminder Nettles. Glad you have all the info and facts to keep us pointed in the right direction 🙂 Guess I have to let the Nelson off the hook on that one.
way to go nettles; i love the way you smell a rat!
The media can’t decide what they want. GZ in the news or GZ out of the news…or is it Kelly Sims who can’t decide.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/09/23/where-world-george-zimmerman
I emailed Mr. West for some answers. I’ll let you know if I hear back.
I would trust his information more than anyone’s.
When you wrote to West, did you mention what a sexy smile he has? Might help get a response 🙂
Dang! I didn’t mention that FACT! 🙂
I wonder if this is Shellie’s dad. He has quite a history if so.
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=591990CF003508B
Holy crap!!!!
Wow!!
some of us already linked to the corresponding Sentinel story about her father’s criminal past. He sounds like the kind of man very capable of provoking a fight with GZ.
I saw those links at least last week sometime. Papa Dean is a convicted felon. He had 10 years of probation. That was why I asked the question of someone if Dean had completed his probation period. The answer was yes. I kinda wondered if that wasn’t why he decided to not press charges against George. When you already have a record, it gets a little harder to claim domestic violence, doesn’t it, or shouldn’t it? The piece of trash was actually accepting stolen vehicles to use for his landscape business. There has been much discussion about TM being badly parented. How about Shellie growing up with a father that was not exactly an upright citizen. On Twitter Tracy Martin had a problem with TM lying to him, he didn’t have a problem with him lying, he just went berserk when TM lied to him. How do you teach a child that lying is bad, but it’s OK in some circumstances.
I also noticed that Shellie ran to daddy when times got tough. Didn’t she run to daddy the night of or before the incident because she had an argument with George? Where the heck is her Mom?
You are correct and as I said before, I still do not understand why MSM did not pick up on that and follow through. George and Shellie had a “fight” on that same night, just as he did with his ex. Were there more fights? IDK, but if I had been a reporter, I would have been all over that… maybe to “prove” that George was not docile and also to follow through on the other accusations made against him and draw a connection. It COULD have been a story but I am glad it was not. I am only saying I am surprised that the media missed it.
I know nothing about her MOM. Maybe JFP does.
Shellie said she an George argued on Saturday, Feb. 25th and she went to stay at her father’s house.
She was not at home at all on Sunday.
As to Shellie’s mom, according to her brother DJ (Dave Jr?), their Mom, Mikki was at the house on Sept. 9th and she told DJ to run George has a gun. Reporters found DJ under a tree and he relayed that story to them.
I’m not sure why Mikki nor DJ have police statements in what got released.
The dates are not important. My point was about how the media did not follow through. I was never a reporter while I was in the business but I do know a story when I see one.
Reporters do not have complete freedom to rummage where they want. Their first duty is to the editor. The editor decides the assignments and what is to be covered.
In a story as highly charged as this one, I think it is a safe assumption that the course and extent of reporter digging was a collective decision with the editors having the primary voice.
Such was not the case when I was in the business. Free lance reporters had a lot of freedom. Things have changed . Reporters today do not even investigate.
Jordan –
I agree with you as to free lance reporters. They still have a lot of freedom. But a line reporter such as Rene Stutzman is curtailed by the circumstances of her employment.
Christi O’Connor is a free lancer. Free lancers have to sell stories. They are like paparazzi, Paparazi take pictures that they can sell. Free lancers are (in one sense) word-paparazzis. It is easier to sell a story with an anti-GZ twist than it is to sell a story with an anti-TM twist.
hooson; I am 67. The newspaper business was my life. I assure you that there was a time when reporters had much more freedom than they do now and they were recognized for finding new material. Managing editors loved it whenever that happened. It is how Pulitzer Prizes were won. Today, as we know from reading about the OS and its part in the case, reporters were muzzled to conform to what the hierarchy wanted. The truth was forbidden to be told if it conflicted with their predetermined racial agenda.I bet many of them never left the office before writing an article. Many of the stories were simply rehashes of what Crump and his cronies said. NO ONE did any fact changing.
Jordan, I don’t know if some people are making assumptions, or if I’m just not up on the latest news, but you seem to be implying it was a physical fight (as with previous ex), and I’ve seen a few others say she actually “left” him that night.
I heard it was an argument, not a physical fight, and that she went there to cool off. They said she went to her father’s house. I don’t know for sure if her parents are still married or not, but maybe they are, and the report was she went to her father’s, when they meant her parents’ house.
Do we actually know these specifics? I don’t know.
Sorry.. did not mean a physical fight. It may have been their only argument. IDK. I just thought it COULD have been a story to pursue.
It likely would have been more than a first (i.e., only) argument. Argumentation builds up over time. Earlier arguments may have ended up without Shellie going to a parent’s home.
Looks like Deans are having troubles with the homes.
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=2012CA002452
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=2012CA001576 (Nelson is the Judge on this one)
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=2012CA003022 (Nelson is the Judge on this one)
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=2012CA003896 (Nelson is the Judge on this one)
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=1988CA004134 (in 1988 they were the plaintiffs)
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=1993CA001279
Shouldn’t Nelson have been recused because of her seemingly lengthy history with Shellie (Dean) Zimmerman’s father? Hel1 Lester’s wife was in the prosecutor’s office who charged George on the Bar Room charges. Oh my God, it is seeming that everyone in that community all know each other, and have had connections to someone or another. It is sickening that there doesn’t seem to be anyone who is or can be impartial. That’s what you get with the same people running the system probably for decades.
My opinion from the start was that an out of county or out of state attorney should have represented George.. one who had no ties or obligations to anyone in that jurisdiction. It might have made an impact on everything that everyone did, including the state and the judge(s). Perhaps the case would have never even proceeded.
My choice was Roy Black, or Gerry Spence, even though he is retired. This was right up his alley. But there were many others, too.
I agree with that Jordan. There was no possibility of George getting a fair trial unless the entire case was moved out of the area. It seems that O’Mara believed that the case was so high profile that even if the venue was moved it would not have made any difference. I’m certainly not going to knock O’Mara, as he did win an acquittal for George. The fact that there are still so many unanswered questions, by so many of us, and TM is still seen as an angel, and George is still considered a monster is without doubt a replection on the fact that TM’s history never came out. I know that O’Mara did release some discovery, and some court documents that addressed TM’s less than stellar history, how many ever read that information as we all did? I am still of the belief that it was not O’Mara’s job to fight the BGI, it was not O’Mara’s job to fight the school district that sent TM back out into society without any criminal penalties.
It is my opinion that other attorney’s such as Beasley are the ones to fight the media trashing of GZ. I am guessing that Beasley is sitting back and waiting until the divorce settlement is accomplished. There does seem to be a sticking point with Shellie wanting half of the NBC lawsuit monies if I am not mistaken.
I’m sorry Jordan, I will add to this later. The reason I have not been here much is that I am pizzed at what has been happening to Ted Cruz. I’ll be back later, or tomorrow. Have a good night.
On October 2 to 4th, a 9 person panel with a support staff of 20 people will meet to discuss ethics in Florida.
http://www.ethics.state.fl.us/
If there are issues with the sunshine laws and what you seen come out of the Zimmerman trial, let these folks know. What about the ethics surrounding those in power? City Manager Bonaparte, Mayor Triplett releasing evidence to the family, Wolfinger stepping aside to allow a political prosecution.
That is true. People should be calling for an internal investigation into these departments. As far as the Sunshine laws go, Florida is a state that allows non residents, but requires a person to be US citizens to make FIOA requests. I remember some tree people stating Sundance could do this because he was resident. Every state is different. If there is a refusal to release that info. under Sunshine laws then an individual has legal remedy and tbey can recoup legal fees. Sundance has stated that SAO has required him to place a desposit. Right there he could ask for legal remedy. In fact under Sunshine laws if there is a refusal for any info. they must tell you why in writing.
I have followed Ted Cruz for quite a while, at least since Ron Paul recommended him to me long ago. I started following Ron Paul when I was studying the FED during my Finance and Economics classes. A USAF Major sort of introduced me to him and I kept in touch and supported him both politically and financially as best I could. His work may very well be the start of a revolution to change politics as usual as young people learn about our Constitution.. more so now than in any recent years.
I grew up in SC during an era in which many of us could recite much of the Constitution. We all read the Federalist Papers back then and knew why they were written so I am also a fan of Scalia.
Fight the good fight, minpin. I am getting too old for this after the last election. I gave it all I had. It is my children’s turn. I home schooled both of them in American History and the Constitution so they have the tools to move us forward.
Be careful. Most Republicans have become traitors. They eat their own. There is no honor among those thieves. NO ONE upholds the oath of office so NO ONE can impeach them. Tragic.
Being legally impartial and the codification for ethics under recusal for conflicts of interests is set to legal standards. Just because a defendants family member or even the defendant himself stood before a judge in a prior preceding is not cause for recusal. Could you imagine our court system if that were the case? In fact it would be against due process and law to move a party away from their jurisdiction. There needs to be clear conflicts of interests that require a judge to be unable to be impartial in order for recusal. A judge or a party to the suit can request an agree to a recusal.
Some of those instances which are universal:
~The judge is related to a party, attorney, or spouse of either party (usually) within three degrees of kinship.
~The judge is a party.
~The judge is a material witness unless pleading purporting to make the Judge a party is false (determined by presiding judge ( see Substitution)
~The judge has previously acted in the case in question as an attorney for a party, or participated in some other capacity.
~The judge prepared any legal instrument (such as a contract or will) whose validity or construction is at issue.
~Appellate judge (appeals process) previously handled case as a trial judge.
~The judge has personal or financial interest in the outcome. This particular ground varies by jurisdiction. Some require recusal if there is any interest at all in the outcome, while others only require recusal if there is interest beyond a certain value.
~The judge determines he or she cannot act impartially
So where are the FOIA documents that Sundance was supposed to get from Corey’s office a few days ago? I believe he said something about not accepting the documents, or something. I had already said that it was highly unlikely that Corey’s office would release anything incriminating to Sundance. Imagine Corey’s office sending Sundance hundreds of pages of redacted information, and charging him by the page. Eric Holder sent plenty of pages to the Congressional committee investigating the Fast and Furious debacle. Most pages contained less than a few words after redaction. I believe some pages were completely redacted. Seems some have figured out a way to hide whatever information requested by anyone if it disturbed the narrative. Did Sundance really think he would uncover a smoking gun? That’s funny right there.
@minpin06, set down your hate (if possible) Send me an email and I’ll share the issues (and the actual conversation with the SAO) it ain’t as easy as you think it is……. and it damned sure ain’t funny.
Corrupt manipulative legal systems are difficult to go up against. They have all of the advantages except an important pair. Honesty, and The Truth.
By The Way – Who else is actually doing anything to get to the truth of this fiasco beside TCTH? Are you? Or is it just easier to cast aspersions?
I thought so.
Send you an email? LOL Maybe someone else may take you up on your offer, but I’ll wait for the public version.
And to add to my above comment Sundance, I know that you knew that you would never get anything close to the truth about anything that involves Angela Corey’s office. I personally wouldn’t have been willing to wates the money, especially if the donations from other’s were involved. It’s a waste of assets. I know you know that. Fishing expeditions in the wide seas of the world never usually work out real well.
So what exactly are YOU doing ?
Sitting on the shore just waiting to critique the value of harvest from returning fishermen who are actually making earnest efforts ? Much easier huh?
I spoke to you about the FOIAs in a previous thread. And you stated that I am not doing anything. You have no clue what I am doing. Besides, It is my understanding that there have been lawsuits filed at some junctures when Florida failed to release public info. under FIOA. Are YOU willing to go that far? These lawsuits include some of the very things you claim to have been requesting. Thing is, you have not publicly shared that information., nor the responses. In fact you have even placed some posts as protected. So some have no choice but to file their own requests and seek legal remedies from there. Some do so without announcing it!
Minpin – I think it is very good that Sundance is pursuing this. It should be pursued, regardless of the outcome, expected or otherwise. He already came up with some great stuff on this score and there is no reason to believe that he will not come up with more, as long as he doesn’t quit the pursuit.
I do not see anyone else doing it, so yes, I agree. It’s his own time. At a minimum, they have been alerted that someone is on their trail. Coverups are more serious than the crime being covered up.
Sundance sent this to me via email about Rick Madigan’s email – tells me NOTHING. But we knew it would.
—–Original Message—–
From: thelastrefuge@reagan.com
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:59pm
To: “Rick Madigan”
Subject: RE: Sundance, please reply Rick Madigan
Mr. Madigan, after recent events, which I am absolutely astounded by, regretfully I really don’t have any inclination to be in further contact with you.
Personally I take exception to your continual disparagements of the community surrounding the Conservative Treehouse.
There is an undefined element of seemed instability surrounding your communication and expressions. Out of an abundance of caution, and anticipating your self-destructive tendencies, I have requested the admin team to place you on a moderation list.
“Broken things can become blessed things if you let God do the mending”.
Wishing you the best of luck on your future endeavors.
Warmest regards,
Sundance
—–Original Message—–
From: “Rick Madigan”
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:16pm
To: “thelastrefuge@reagan.com”
Subject: Sundance, please reply Rick Madigan
Hi Sundance,
I want to share something really important, and it will help you immensely, but I need to know something first:
Have you or any of the Admin received or exchanged emails or calls from anyone regarding me?
Thanks
Sincerely,
Rick
————————————
Well Justfactsplz – that reveals nothing! I sense I’m driving Sundance mad with my continual assertion that he is Rick. I shall mention it no more. It appears Rick has left us anyway. Farewell and following seas.
What were you looking for it to tell you?
I’m looking for who Rick Madigan is. Justfactsplz really wants to know as well.
I’m sure all the people who talked with him and shared with him want to know the backstory.
It appears he gave several contradictory statements. He owes all of us he conversed with an explanation. A good honest explanation.
@Nettles, have you ever thought about just asking him?
just sayin’….
Now I don’t want to make you mad but I thought I did when I told you about my suspicions.
When no one thought you were Rick (from Feb. 23rd to April 6th), he sure sounded like you.
Then I let it known and I saw evidence that tried to separate you two. Did Rick ever email the treehouse prior to April 6th? I wonder if you weren’t also trying to convince the admins there you were two different people.
I’ll take your advice and email him. Watch for it. 🙂
How do you think Rick will feel about you sharing his email without asking him first?
That’s another reason, I think you’re him. You would need to get his permission I would think before you send me one that can be posted. right?
OMG – You are so attached to this belief you just can’t fathom anything else. Huh? I just said it matters not to me. Good grief. Dunno, why don’t you email rick Madigan and ask him?
You are seriously delusional in your incapacity to admit you are wrong.
U.N.R.E.A.L.
Sundance –
I am one who has believed that Rick and you are two different individuals. And yet, I have to admit that Nettle’s posts on this have gotten me to re examine my own views.
While I find it hard to comprehend how much you are able to accomplish as much as you do as “Sundance”, it is even harder to comprehend how you could do it and maintain multiple identities on top of that including some of the diatribes that Rick Madigan unleashed at CTH.
And yet, Nettles certainly comes up with a lot of compelling time sequence analyses that raise questions as to how logically these posts fall in line were it not for some form of sock puppetry.
Unless Rick clears matters up – this debate probably goes nowhere. So if you ignore it, it will probably fade away.
hooson: For the record I have often said much the same as you from the start, expressing my doubts. I found evidence that both posted simultaneously and that was the key to me. I have NEVER said they were one and the same, unless out of context. Nettles know this.
That’s another reason I thought they were one and the same. Too many times, they were both online at the same time.
Their pictures could be viewed in the last 15 commenters section between midnight and 5am.
It’s clear to me, Rick had admin. help at the treehouse for some of his comments to be proven right. He knew too much about interrelationship between the female admins. which he commented about and he knew about first posts and interactions that occurred there long before he started posting.
Now I read in emails, he did profess to know George Zimmerman personally.
I’m trying to get to the bottom of it. I’ll let you know when I do.
One other difference I thought I noticed between Sudance and Rick Madigan is that Sundance seemed to possess a quasi-religious streak at times – whereas, one time, IIRC, Rick came out with an ugly attack on Mother Teresa. Those two aspects seemed irreconcilable as being from the same person.
I’m not so sure. SD doesn’t have a problem referring to some conservatives whose politics/policies he doesn’t like as ‘decepticons’. I don’t think he’d have a problem calling out a religious person if he felt they or their actions don’t fit what he believes they should be. It’s all about what SD feels and believes is truth and his agendas. *shrug*
I know of his attack on her and have read much worse elsewhere so I do not the truth about her.
I have had several exchanges with Rick about Scripture. I am convinced he is a believer or at least once was. Not sure why but he wavered on the subject and made it appear that he had changed his belief system at least once, maybe more, in the past. His different views were polar opposites. He could speak well about both atheism and Christianity. If you can find any of his past threads, you might find them interesting. He started one with multiple versions of My God Is an Awesome God.
He had a habit of posting extreme views on his site…. maybe to provoke thought.. maybe to provoke controversy. IDK.
hooson1st
Hell, SD may see Mother Teresa as a liberal. Or maybe even worse… a ‘prog’.
Gasp! Of course she was liberal. 🙂
Is it possible that Rick did know George well enough to speak with him? That would also imply he might have known much more than he ever said in any of his posts. If he did speak with George, wouldn’t that rule out him being SD?
YOU: I’m trying to get to the bottom of it. I’ll let you know when I do.
You appear to know much more about this than any of us so you are, in a sense, out there on your own. At this point, I think that all any of us can do is speculate and geesh, we have heard enough of that already. I have no idea how I could help you.
Clearly, you are on a mission.
If you actually do succeed in uncovering the truth, I suspect everyone here wants to know all about it and why it has been so important to you. I want to know how it affected the case, if it actually did. Maybe what Rick did was a good thing. I cannot discount that completely.
By making it a Sherlock Holmes case, even if unintentionally, you have kept our attention. I suspect you are seeing a side of yourself that may have been unknown to you prior to this. You are very talented and could turn your compassion for others along with that talent into a money making venture to help the homeless and needy even more than you do now. You already have a reputation and are now known by lots of folks, including those in the media. Even those who did not like your views on the case, would have difficulties not supporting anything you do to help feed, not only poor blacks, but anyone who is hungry. If you speak even half well as you write, you could raise as much money as anyone. Your best asset is that you have the HEART to do it.
Take a deep breath once in a while, please.
I don’t like being lied to. Never did. If Rick knows George he lied to us online. If he doesn’t, he lied to Sundance offline.
I’ve been transparent. You know what I know.
I do not speak well. I’ve battled mouth cancer for 21 years now. I was diagnosed the first time on my 29th birthday. Over the years, I’ve lost half my tongue and the right side of my mouth. It’s all been reconstructed using parts from my arm. I have a check-up at the cancer hospital next week, so all you pray for good results for me. I’ve been diagnosed with a new cancer 4 times now. Let’s hope there won’t be a 5th time.
I have never been a political person. In trying to help the food bank and soup kitchen here, I realized I had to get to know the local politicians. Well one thing led to another and I found myself writing the Prime Minister. I drove the provincial politicians nuts but made some progress.
I’m sure the Mayor has been happy to have me off her case this past year but it’s getting time to focus on the needs of people in my City again.
I like hanging out with you guys though. Not sure what more I can do to help. I’m waiting for a sign from George if he plans on attacking any of the injustice against him. I’d like to help with that so no one else gets treated this way. It’s likely not going to be any time soon.
OMG, Annette. I am so very sorry to hear this. You just went to the top of my prayer list. Look, you can turn that into a plus. You do not have to speak publicly. You have a voice that is greatly respected. Just your online presence commands attention. Who, pray tell me, ignores you? I have said what I felt the need to say. I recognize talent when I see it. I am sorry if I have offended or upset you.
You have been remarkably open, Nettles, and a good example to all.
Nettles, you can count on those prayers for a good results on your check up next week. I’m starting right now.
♥ thank you ♥
Rick told me that he once was a believer then he lost his faith. He said he did not want to disclose how he came to lose his faith because it could cause others to lose theirs. He said he regained his faith when all this happened to George and saw that George was relying on God to get him through all of this.
Sundance purports to be a believer. He starts everyday with a prayer and has done so since before the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case.
While there are *some* similarities between the two, I tend to believe Rick and Sundance are two different people, but, as always, I could be wrong. They appear to have different belief systems. If they are one and the same, then Sundance/Rick is very mentally disturbed (not just a sock puppet) and has a LOT of time on his hands.
Another good question is: What are you hoping to communicate to us in sharing this email?
@Sundance, one other thing I’m curious about. Was the Tara that posted at the treehouse and found the ABC tape your wife or ex-wife?
No.
Thanks.
OK, now back to the HOA stuff.
That the Martins were trying to get a settlement was known and discussed in July/August 2012. George was copied on the correspondence. That’s how they knew about it.
On October 29th (which happened to be a court date in the case about the gag-hearing), the Martins decided to negotiate for money instead of represent their son in court. O’Mara learned they had turned down a million dollar offer that day.
In February 2012, he told Rene Stutzman about it and it was printed in the paper.
When Crump filed the redacted settlement, while he said he provided O’Mara and the state with a copy, O’Mara said they hadn’t received it. He filed a motion to get it unsealed and further argued the redacted parts should be unredacted.
You clearly did not know there had been a settlement. We can watch your eyes light up and your brain start processing the settlement. First you thought it had just happened in April 2013, then you thought it happened in February 2013. Near as I can tell, it actually occurred in November 2012.
As O’Mara said in his statement on April 8th. They didn’t know there had been an agreement reached and its important information to have when questioning witness’s bias and motivation on the stand.
You are correct. I had no idea there was a settlement. Point?
When crump filed with the court he provided the copy(s) of the “certified USPS mail signed/returned receipt” from O’Mara’s office, and all recipient’s. 😦 (O’Mara truth fail)
Point, on the day Crump filed this, no one, including O’Mara knew there had been a settlement.
SD says ” When crump filed with the court he provided the copy(s) of the “certified USPS mail signed/returned receipt” from O’Mara’s office, and all recipient’s. 😦 (O’Mara truth fail)
Just because Chump provided a copy of the signed/returned receipt, LMAO DOES NOT 1) tell us WHAT WAS RECIEVED 2) That Omara actually SAW what it was. ROFLMAO send something to a company that has a mailroom, whomever picks up mail, signs thoses things, UNLESS it is Restricted, and again they would have to go a diff route. THIS I KNOW 🙂 TRUST ME 🙂 Also, knowing CHUMP and company, there is NO Telling how much CRAP was sent to Omara Law Firm. That whole statement makes me really laugh out loud! Especially from SD and all the super sleuthing he does…
And the more I read SD posting stuff HERE vs what he posts at TCTH I am more confused and really feeling misled on some issues. Hanging my head Darnit…
What was provided by Crump was a certified mail receipt for the “Confidential Court Filing.” Meaning he filed the settlement into the criminal record and had to inform MOM that he filed sealed records.
MOM was aware there were ongoing negotiations, just like we knew…it was public record. Crump wanted MORE then the insurance coverage. MOM was in the dark about negotiations beyond the limit. He stated that he had suspected they settled beyond the insurance limit because the prior offer of a million was turned down by Crump.
On the settlement…….
The insurance company was clear that the settlement was not admission of wrong doing or responsibility. Many settlements happen this way. Crump knows that.
Take a look at this Brown case (the man who was run over by the cop). Crump is the atty. The city settled for 550,000. The cop was fired. There was an internal investigation. The cop faced a grand jury for vehicular homicide. He was not charged. Now Crump sends out yet again a freaking funeral director. And is releasing things like the dash cam video to the public, and pleading to the State to investigate and charge the cop. Prior to this the Scheme Team was pleading to Scott to remove Corey from the Jordan Davis case. He lost that bid.
It seems like this legal bunch reaches beyond justice with the intention to fail in order to make it look like blacks are indeed victimized by the judicial process!
When will the media see this atty. for who he is? He is not even a social engineer. He is an ambulance chaser. He revictimizes his clients and the dead. He makes victims out of the black community! The living and those mourning are his meal ticket. His ticket to fame and fortune. Justice is equal for everyone. If Crump wants justice he is first going to have to accept the process just like the rest of us.
I was talking with David about this on facebook yesterday. I don’t get why Crump is doing this press if the city settled.
David thought he’s looking to sue the State.
Again, why isn’t the state motivated to shut this operation down. In the Zimmerman case, they appeared to bolster the operation. What is going on?
Perhaps he wants to sue the State. But under what civil suit? They investigated it. Brown did not have clean hands. When police put on their lights…PULL OVER! If he did not die best beleive he would have been charged for running. When a person runs they put everyone at risk. Just pull the hell over! I suppose the homicide charge they want would not get a conviction. They would have to prove the cop was reckless. It happened so quick.
I am against police chases like that too. Some cities and States call those types of chases off. Too many people die for minor infractions.
I think Crump is just trying to ride the Zimmerman wave for now.
Eventually people will start fighting back against their false allegations and legal filings. They should just ask for suits to be dropped for frivolis lawsuits and defamation. Hit him where it hurts. His POCKET!
Think of Mr. Crump as a oil wildcatter. You keep drilling holes. Sometimes they are dry, sometimes you hit a gusher. You keep drilling. Nothing personal.
Thanks Danny. OH and I guess I had missed it or forgot, but when you said dashcam video it reminded me. While I was reading early this morning, I came across a comment with link someone had posted. I swear you cant make the crap up with this case/these people! The Judge who was suppose to hear TrayFam request to get the 911 tapes was none other than Judge Nelson! but since the Mayor or whoever it was that released them, that was something she didn’t have to deal with. Wonder what she would have done? That was awhile before her turn on the bench with this case. Hmmm
On April 4th, without a reason or an apparent need, Crump filed paperwork into the George Zimmerman criminal case file. The documents were the confidential agreement between the Martin family and the HOA. On April 5th the Court Clerk sent Crump a letter informing Crump that the documents did not meet the criteria, and would be unsealed. Crump was given 10 days to file a response to the Court as to why the Confidential Settlement Agreement should not be unsealed. On April 13th, in a 4 page filing Crump aksed Judge Nelson to keep the settlement amount and the parties in the agreement confidential. In other words he did not mind that the Settlement was known , just that the conditions, the people involved, and the amount be kept secret.
On April 11th MOM filed a Motion to Unseal:http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/court-documents/139-motion-to-unseal-information-listed-as-confidential
There would be no reason for him to file this motion if you say he recieved it!
The docket in the criminal case shows two entries:
04/12/2013 MDCR MOTION TO DETERMINE THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF COURT RECORDS
04/12/2013 LETT LETTER FROM ATTY CRUMPS OFFICE IN REGARDS TO DOCUMENTS SEALED
The form paper that covers allegedly confidential material filed under a “Notice of Confidential Information within Court Filing” includes a space for a Certificate of Service.
We scan see the Motion to Determine Confidentiality. Never saw the Settlement!
So Sundance MOM did not recieve an unreacted copy and he would have known AFTER Crump filed it to the criminal file. From there MOM had to fight to get an unredacted copy of what was placed in the record. So yes, he like everyone else knew there was a settlement. He had no clue who and how much was involved until he forced Crump to divulge it.
For some reason I thought Modarress filed the agreement. If I’m remembering correctly I wonder if it was with Crump’s permission.
Modarres and Jackson were tweeting out the confidential filing was from them.
When it appeared on the docket, we knew the filing was from them and then Rene wrote that she saw the first 5 pages of it and advised what the subject matter was.
This may be what I was thinking of.
Interestingly Modarress tweeted the “we filed” on Apr 5 2013 at 10:14 AM. He deleted the tweet on Apr 19 2013 at 19 22. Wonder why.
No, that’s wrong. He deleted it on Apr 19 2013 at 22:13:08 (CST)
Either way whoever it was in the Schemesters circle they were obviously planting stories about the settlement . Look at http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-no-hoa-lawsuit-20120324_1_civil-lawsuit-neighborhood-watch-nabj.
Crump filed it. Otherwise the Clerk would have contacted the atty. who had.
I now know WHY Sundance initially claimed MOM was advising. It appears it was rooted in this April 11th filing where it shows the HOA CCd George in C/O MOM about settlement talks (ie; exhibits A&B). These are in this filing to show that IF Crump wanted everything so confidential why would he be fwding letters to the HOA after they ALREADY hired attys?
It is interesting to me why that document would be filed period. It is not relevant to the case.
The only thing I can think of is that the Scheme Team was trying to pollute the proceedings. If there were a settlement, then GZ must be guilty, right?
Any other ideas?
Stevie – I was thoroughly confused at the time, as well. First of all, Crump had no standing whatsoever in the criminal case. If Crump thought it had some bearing, he should have submitted it to BDLR and his people. The whole thing was bizarre. I agree with you that the only seemingly rational explanation was that Crump thought that it could hurt George Zimmerman.
I suspected he was trying to shore up his argument that he was opposing counsel and the settlement proved that. Sadly for him however, it didn’t.
No dispute here.
“If there were a settlement, then GZ must be guilty, right?” IMO exactly what Crump et al wanted. They really have a well oiled machine, and know how to use publicity to their advantage – their organization is mind boggling to me. Guess I’ve been too naive 😦
Nettles and/or Sundance…
Was wondering if either of you have looked into the young man mentioned in court, Emmanuel Burgess, who was one of the two teens involved in the Olivia Bertalan home invasion August 2011?
Some pretty interesting stuff… he lived in the building neighboring Brandy’s and, like Trayvon, he had a history with stolen jewelry. Burgess also liked to steal Playstation 3’s and resell them according to the article linked below.
Seeing as how Chad had lived in the RTL for three years, if he didn’t know Burgess personally he certainly would have known of him and seen him around the neighborhood and school bus stop. And since Trayvon had visited the RTL some seven or eight times prior and was hanging out with other teens in Brandy’s neighborhood, it’s possible he may have known Burgess.
http://mysanfordherald.com/view/mobile_full_story/2085982/article-Pants-fall-down-during-chase–2-teens-charged-in-burglary
Click to access twinlakesburglaryreports.pdf
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Emmanuel_Burgess_7189120/
It’s also my understanding that Burgess was the prowler that was looking into Frank Taaffe’s windows the night of Feb. 2nd.
Burgess “got away” that night but was arrested about a week before the shooting caught stealing a lap top.
Trayvon was standing on Frank’s lawn when he drew George’s attention.
It’s kinda scary that he was arrested for the RTL home invasion, and then released and right back in the RTL breaking into houses again… wtf?!
And according to the Sanford Herald article linked above, he already had quite an extensive criminal history before the home invasion; warrants out for his arrest, responsible for a B&E spree, etc. That article was from 2009, three years later he’s still breaking into houses.
Wonder if this is another Baker Act success story 😦
No consequences = no deterrent
https://twitter.com/YancyFaith/status/382451291999326208
OH MY GEESH~ So that was Sept 24, what happens between then and Oct 1? SMH
https://twitter.com/TennisForJudge/status/382518191983181824
http://omaralawblog.com/index.php/8-blog/19-the-trouble-with-using-mental-health-as-a-qualification-for-gun-ownership
Boricuafudd answers back to mental illness and the need to control guns in his latest blog.
The idea sounds good, but who the hell can define mental illness in the context of someone not being well enough to own a gun? Would we really let the government make that decision? IMO, most of the people who would be involved in that argument are mentally ill themselves and should not be allowed to even speak in Congress. Think about abortion. How many on either side of the issue think the other side are all mentally ill? If we are equally divided, does that mean half of us are mentally ill or all of us?
I don’t know about you Americans, but us Canadians have no mental health issues.
Obviously none at all!! 🙂
+a gazillion.
You may be correct. You guys sent all of the crazies to us.. LOL.
Lol.
Is this why Sundance just couldn’t support O’Mara? His perceived politics? Maybe so.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/09/24/want-a-better-life-avoid-democrats-and-liberals/#comments
This is Exhibt A of a closed-mind.
I’ve said repeatedly SD isn’t about truth he’s about his agenda(s). He’s perfectly willing to fudge and spin and outright lie if it forwards his goals. He’s an extremist/fanatic. He used the GZ case just like others with agendas did. Did he care about GZ’s fate? Well, I think any consideration for GZ’s fate was secondary to him. GZ and his family were desperate for any support they could get and TCTH was the go to place for info. Unfortunately I think some members got caught up in SD’s version of the truth and that caused divisions and conflicts. I think SD caused more problems than just causing a reduction in donations.
“I think SD caused more problems than just causing a reduction in donations.” I fear you may be right on the mark with that one. I’m reading an email Sundance shared with me last night, addressed to him from Rick Madigan. Sundance said I could share it or not, it was my call.
In it, Rick says he talked with George Zimmerman last week (it was dated August 10th), and learned that Nettles had worked closely with the defense team but that he (George) never has spoken to me. Rick advises him not to talk with me as I’m too polluted in my support of O’Mara. Anyone who supported O’Mara was “delusional”.
How in anyone’s universe (besides Crump), does that even make sense?!?! I’m George Zimmerman’s enemy because I helped George Zimmerman’s defense team? Beyond insane.
Rick Madigan – it’d be a real good idea if you came clean as to who you are and what games you’ve been playing.
I worked so closely with the defense that when I emailed Mr. West yesterday, I had to write a paragraph introducing myself to the man. I haven’t heard from him yet. Would it help in addition to telling him about his sexy smile to advise I’m not the crazy internet troll BDLR warned him about? LOL
If it’s attention that Rick wants, he sure as hell continues to get it even after going silent. I have asked about SD’s agenda, so I will now ask you the same. What is Rick’s agenda?
I’m pretty certain Rick is a fake.
I’ve sent his emails to Robert to see if he knows who the guy is but I suspect I’ll learn he’s not known to them.
He tried to pass himself off as close to George. I highly doubt it. There is one glaring error in it that suggests it’s a lie. Not sure if Sundance picked up on it and that’s why he told him to take a hike.
Looking at Rick’s comments he posted, he agenda was to praise Sundance and smear O’Mara.
Coreshift-
“Unfortunately I think some members got caught up in SD’s version of the truth and that caused divisions and conflicts. I think SD caused more problems than just causing a reduction in donations.”
To me that is the very worst damage SD did. He knew everyone of the family members were going through hell, and they were all getting death threats. In the beginning, he was doing some great articles, and connecting many dots, especially with the Scheme Team. When he got his dander up against Mark O’Mara, he no doubt tried his hardest to convince those he was in contact with to convince George to dump O’Mara. It would have been wise and with class for him to wish them well, but to stay out of a family’s affairs, especially at a time like that.
Remember when SD claimed that the way O’Mara had the bail bond contract written, that O’Mara did it in a way that George was stuck with O’Mara and that George could not fire O’Mara even if he wanted to? I never saw any bond documents despite that SD claimed he was trying to get a copy of it to prove that George was stuck.
Sorry if my post looks different. Trying to get rid of the firefox background ads today, I mistakenly erased every last little stitch of everything off my computer. Trying to rebuild everything, especially my bookmarks list. Nettles, I had to find this site by clicking on one of your comments over at Mike McDaniels sites. Yeah. I really did that. LOL
I hit the nuclear button by mistake, and it all went boooom.
Oy, hang in there minpin, that’s awful! The “nuclear button” should have a box that comes up to say “are you sure?”!
You are too funny.
I hit the nuclear button by mistake, and it all went boooom.
HOLY COW, minpin.
I was one of those who investigated that bond agreement. I found the first one but NEVER found the second one. I still have not seen it so IDK what was it. I only know what SD posted about it but do not know how he got that information.
Did George ever really have a chance to get a new attorney? If so, I do not know how.
Ted Cruz was still speaking at 12:41 a.m. ET on Wednesday
You have probably followed him longer than anyone here, coreshift, so exactly what is SD’s agenda?
It’s not that complicated. Here’s some hints. The details you can get just by reading his posts.
“The Conservative Tree House”
“The Last Refuge”
“Wolverines” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/
“Emergency and Survival Planning 101 (Tips)”
Here’s another hint.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/08/27/why-frogs-warmed-and-101-days-frozen/
WOLVERINES
I suspect a lot of people today have given up on America and are prepared for a showdown against the government. Many look forward to a day of reckoning. Quite a few websites show that it is becoming increasingly more popular. I feel that way sometimes myself. Military websites explain what can be done.
I often see this:
This may surprise you but the oath of office is different for an enlisted person. Officers DO NOT swear allegiance to the President – as a safeguard against a usurper commander-in-chief. They swear allegiance only to the Constitution and it’s why many veterans believe the military can overthrow the government. Here’s the officer’s oath.
“I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.” (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
If you are an enlisted soldier, whose orders are you going to follow?
The last election proved to me that the constitutional republic is lost unless severe action is taken. You can draw your own conclusions as to what severe action means but it does not mean voting out the bad guys. The vote is now powerless to make realistic change. There is no way to impeach those on the Hill who do not abide by the oath of office. They all violate the oath. It means nothing any more. When the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has the power to ignore our Constitution and the power to tax the people, the document is worthless. It is only referenced when it is politically convenient to support a position. Even Bush had no respect for it. The last time we fought in a war as specified in that document was WWII. How many Americans have been “murdered” by our government since then?
I should stop there but I do understand the stance that SD has taken, even if I do not agree with him entirely. I do wish that change could be accomplished peacefully but have seen no evidence that it could happen but I have ears to hear.
I am 67 and fought the good fight but it is time for me to turn this over to my daughters and the new generation. I am not giving up, but I have had that feeling of hopelessness for quite a while now. I am no longer political savvy. I do not understand the new way of doing things and am not even interested any longer. I could not tell you who is a constitutional conservative and who is not. They are all dirty rotten scoundrels whose only loyalty is to money. What the hell is a Republican these days? Or for that manner, a Democrat, a Liberal or a Progressive? And exactly who is Barack Obama or whatever his name is?
Change.org petition to get Chief Bracknell off Zimmerman’s case.
https://www.change.org/petitions/lake-mary-police-department-located-in-seminole-county-florida-recusal-of-chief-steve-bracknell
On the latest FOIA at TCTH, this is not the first time Sundance has made big promises and failed to deliver. In the MD-SPD FOIA Sundance promised publication of documents showing overt acts of violence by TM while attending Miami Dade schools that never materialized.
Off topic but look @ the atty.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-marlon-brown-funeral-director-20130924,0,48178.story
Coreshift taped Crump’s appearance on AC360 last night. Why any reporters are going to Crump for facts in a case after the pack of lies he sold to them in the Trayvon story is beyond me.
Simple answer. His lies are proven money makers. His name is now even more widely recognized than ever before.
He just may be the guy to replace Sharpton and Jackson. Aren’t both of them still making money from telling lies? Did you ever even once hear Sharpton apologize for all of his lies and his part in destroying lives of others? Why did he get a pass on completely ignoring and then defying our legal system?
Telling lies is profitable, especially when two different races are involved in any situation. He will always win, usually by an out of court settlement. It’s only a matter of how much he will get in a settlement. I cannot find one single case in which Crump actually argued a case in a court of law in front of a jury.
Jesse Jackson made fortunes, using extortion to bilk “companies” out of millions. In reality, it was real people who paid him but no one really thought about it in that manner.
Notice how many black attorneys have learned to use those same tactics to exact revenge on white people. Crump set another precedent. Get a cheap law degree online, get BGI support, pass the bar exam, set up an office at home, and sue every time a black person is killed. You do not even have to speak the English language fluently. You cannot lose. Easy money.
Funeral Director James E. Cusack… what’s with Crump always trying to pass funeral directors off as medical experts ???
I guess they both make their livings preying on the familys of the deceased… a match made in Helllllo.
Looks like the playbook is back in play. 😦
Wonder if they’ve organized the “No Justice No Peace” march yet.
Vigils first…t-shirts, check…posters, check…
“Family of man run over during police chase holds vigil”
“His family said they held a justice rally for two reasons: to keep his memory alive and garner support for a federal investigation of the former cop who killed him.”
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/family-man-run-over-during-police-chase-hold-vigil/nZ44g/
Sounds like everything is going according to plan…
Unfortunately! 😦 They’ve really got the routine down pat.
Race card, check … “they only do it to blacks and Hispanics”
Throw constitutional rights against double jeopardy out the window and demand the defendant be charged and tried again, check.
Distort and misrepresent the situation, check… ‘it was just a seat belt violation’
Hmmm, the only thing missing from the play book is a petition.
So true.
Crump is looking for a payday after his failure in George’s case. As far as I know he got nothing except for a few piddling bucks from the HOA settlement and that likely was divvied up among quite a few people.
lol
How many white folks who have been killed has he represented?
Zimmerman to Ask Florida to Pay Legal Costs
Posted September 23, 2013 in Criminal Law by Michele Bowman
http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/09/zimmerman-to-ask-florida-to-pay-legal-costs/
Ms. Bowman gets the dates wrong of the Domestic incident (Sept. 9th) and when O’Mara announced he wasn’t going to handle the divorce (Sept. 10th).
It is just plain wrong that a defendant cannot recover ALL costs to defend himself. This has never made any sense to me. Even Jody Arias’ defense was paid for by AZ. That is now approaching 2 million dollars.
This, along with the Brady violations, are serious flaws in our judicial system.
According to this, Mr. West only does criminal defense, not divorces.
http://www.superlawyers.com/florida/lawyer/Donald-R-West/8da71b4b-f88f-4c45-a512-92c7aedc11be.html
I hope that he will add civil suits to his repertoire. O’Mara is going to get paid in a couple of ways but how about Don?
LOL, I love VP’s sense of humor.
https://twitter.com/VP_JFGZ/status/382682299440979968
Sheesh! They’re playing dirty pool now! 🙂
ROFL!!
Twitter is blowing up about Senator Cruz tonight. I hope Minpin is happy about it. I’m not sure if she was supporting him or fighting him. Anyway, which ever way, I hope she is winning.
Good Night all. See you tomorrow. ♥ Dream sweet. ♥
Didn’t he briefly go on a rant and criticize the Tree at Dman’s site? IIRC, I once asked him why he did that. I think his response was that I misunderstood him. Someone recently posted that thread.
I am 1,000 times behind Senator Ted Cruz Nettles. He is listening to and fighting for me, my family, my neighbors, and all of us everyday Americans. He is the only one with a pair made of titanium. I was busy watching him on C-SPAN last night but, I am very happy to see the Twitter explosion, as long as it was positive. Yeeees, I finally have a high speed connection that allows me to see most videos. I will be having a funeral here soon for my dinosaur costume. LOL
YiPPPPeeeeEEE! Minpin got high-speed.
Your ability to keep up without seeing video was astonishing to me. Can’t wait to see what you come up with after watching statements and interviews and your reading of their body language.
Glad to hear your guy is winning. A majority on twitter are supporting Mr. Cruz.
Good for you!!!
minpin, I am thrilled that you finally got high speed. Your life will not be the same.
I have spent last hour or so reading the CTH Calling back all the Omara Fans first and updated threads. I still cant believe that SD and Stella too for that matter were being offended by most all that posted, asking for proof. SD changed what he was saying through out the comments (updated). I do get where Stella would state that we were all speculating about things and this was no diff, just that the Omara fans were wanting Proof because of SD saying about Omara. (Paraphrasing)
Here is a comment/reply between SD and I. I don’t think it is wrong to ask for proof, from Anyone. JMHO
arkansasmimi says:
April 6, 2013 at 4:25 am
Ok, dont beat me up too bad. I am not of the Legal thinking minds you gals/guys are. But, could it be possible that Omara was given the courtesy copies as Chump has been given, because he is GZ attny in the Criminal Case?
sundance says:
April 6, 2013 at 4:30 am
That’s what I initially thought too when I read the articles. However, then I read that he knew the specifics of the details surrounding the settlement – that took me back to research from last year and some prior information (some posted -some not). Then we rec’d confirmation that this was indeed his advice/decision.